Hey guys this was originally uploaded to IG but the last 5 minutes got cut off so uploading it here. Sorry for the poor quality but hopefully a helpful discussion!
excellent, mechanically sound perspective on fundamentals that contribute - positively or negatively - to accuracy. logical, researched,and well-reasoned. nicely done, young man.
You definitely can, although it's a bit more tricky, less necessary, and the application is a little different. To me the foundational idea of prep is stacking 80% of the required pressure, this can be done on any trigger whether there is creep or not. There is a point say below 1lb where it's extremely difficult to apply any pressure without the trigger breaking, but at 2.5 it can absolutely be done.
I know both are important to an extent. But depending on what you're shooting will play a big role into what is more important than the other. Shouldered platforms such as rifles and shotguns would require more focus on your trigger pull since the rifle should be almost fully stabilized. When it comes to close range shooting with handguns in both stationary and movement shooting scenarios grip plays the bigger role. If you have a proper grip on your handgun then a slightly off trigger pull should not be moving your gun enough to miss your mark. A lot of handgun shooters have issues with consistency due to improper grip. Usually bad habits are the cause of this and it takes retraining your brain to a proper grip. Since that bad habit has been drilled into muscle memory it makes it hard to break. I personally started with bad habits and found that a month of purely dry firing with primary focus on my grip and target acquisition largely improved my shooting when I live fired at a IDPA match after the month of focused dry firing.
This is a balanced take on something I’ve wondered about for a while, so maybe you can opine on another related question I’ve had. Re: Stoeger/Leatham’s trigger control drill, and slapping the trigger, the ideal goal is to have the gun not move at all while you break the shot. Like you said, it’s obviously not possible to not move the gun literally at all. So how much dot movement do you consider acceptable when you slap the trigger without prepping? Holding on a paster at 5 yards? Anything that gets you an A-zone hit? I guess what I’m really asking is how much movement you think you should see during a trigger press before it’s considered an issue with your grip, rather than an unavoidable consequence of pulling the trigger fast. Appreciate the well thought-out video!
It's honestly impossible to answer that appropriately. Trigger control at speed is not a pass fail standards drill. It's a process based exercise that allows you to pursue perfection, and improve even while not reaching that goal. How much movement is practical will also vary based on your equipement (mainly trigger), grip strength and where exactly you are starting your finger at. With that said the demo I do in class to show whats possible is starting just touching the trigger with zero prep, headshots only at 15 yards under .25. So far I've never missed one.
@@SpecTrain thanks for the response! To clarify, do you mean within the head A zone, or anywhere on the head? Sorry if that’s an obvious one, USPSA is pretty new to me.
@@PigPharmaceuticalsStoeger did NOT say “always” rip through your trigger. He said he will stack up pressure slowly and roll through the trigger for difficult targets. Both Stoeger and Letham are talking about grip is more important than trigger control, not saying trigger control is useless.
If your dot doesn't return to A zone, instead of stopping stacking pressure, what about either slowing the stacking while correcting or making the correction while still stacking? I have asked this to several people and the response I get is "you might miss the exit as your trying to get off the highway" or "there is no time to make that adjustment." I know that I do make the adjustment when my sights don't return perfectly and I don't see a difference in the split times (.20-.25). What are your thoughts?
I'll always be as careful on the trigger as I have time to be. Pretty simple concept. I'm not certain I follow your question. On a target where you have time to prep, I most certainly do not think of it in terms of gradually stacking pressure over time to an eventual break. It's a rush to the prep point as quickly as you can do it without accidentally breaking, then pausing and waiting on permission from the sights, then immediately finishing the last couple ounces of pressure.
@@SpecTrain thank you for the response. I'm not able to articulate it properly. On a side note, I recently found your channel and it is great. Every video I have seen so far aligns with the way I shoot. Your explanations are also phenomenal.
Click reset bang is how everything used to be taught dont hate on someone for being taught a safe way to do things that used to be normal....very immature attitude.
excellent, mechanically sound perspective on fundamentals that contribute - positively or negatively - to accuracy. logical, researched,and well-reasoned. nicely done, young man.
I agree with you about the “impossibility”to prep the trigger in a SUPERFAST shooting scenario like self defense.
Very Nice Detail in Your Analysis!
Fantastic piece of instruction.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the insights. Trigger prep seems especially relevant in transitions…. At least for me.
Can't do that with my 1911... There's no wall and it brakes around 2,5 lb...
You definitely can, although it's a bit more tricky, less necessary, and the application is a little different. To me the foundational idea of prep is stacking 80% of the required pressure, this can be done on any trigger whether there is creep or not. There is a point say below 1lb where it's extremely difficult to apply any pressure without the trigger breaking, but at 2.5 it can absolutely be done.
I know both are important to an extent. But depending on what you're shooting will play a big role into what is more important than the other. Shouldered platforms such as rifles and shotguns would require more focus on your trigger pull since the rifle should be almost fully stabilized. When it comes to close range shooting with handguns in both stationary and movement shooting scenarios grip plays the bigger role. If you have a proper grip on your handgun then a slightly off trigger pull should not be moving your gun enough to miss your mark. A lot of handgun shooters have issues with consistency due to improper grip. Usually bad habits are the cause of this and it takes retraining your brain to a proper grip. Since that bad habit has been drilled into muscle memory it makes it hard to break. I personally started with bad habits and found that a month of purely dry firing with primary focus on my grip and target acquisition largely improved my shooting when I live fired at a IDPA match after the month of focused dry firing.
I couldn't have stated it better
This is a balanced take on something I’ve wondered about for a while, so maybe you can opine on another related question I’ve had.
Re: Stoeger/Leatham’s trigger control drill, and slapping the trigger, the ideal goal is to have the gun not move at all while you break the shot. Like you said, it’s obviously not possible to not move the gun literally at all.
So how much dot movement do you consider acceptable when you slap the trigger without prepping? Holding on a paster at 5 yards? Anything that gets you an A-zone hit?
I guess what I’m really asking is how much movement you think you should see during a trigger press before it’s considered an issue with your grip, rather than an unavoidable consequence of pulling the trigger fast.
Appreciate the well thought-out video!
It's honestly impossible to answer that appropriately. Trigger control at speed is not a pass fail standards drill. It's a process based exercise that allows you to pursue perfection, and improve even while not reaching that goal. How much movement is practical will also vary based on your equipement (mainly trigger), grip strength and where exactly you are starting your finger at.
With that said the demo I do in class to show whats possible is starting just touching the trigger with zero prep, headshots only at 15 yards under .25. So far I've never missed one.
@@SpecTrain thanks for the response! To clarify, do you mean within the head A zone, or anywhere on the head? Sorry if that’s an obvious one, USPSA is pretty new to me.
@@PigPharmaceuticalsStoeger did NOT say “always” rip through your trigger.
He said he will stack up pressure slowly and roll through the trigger for difficult targets.
Both Stoeger and Letham are talking about grip is more important than trigger control, not saying trigger control is useless.
@@PeekInsideEverytime I didn’t say that Stoeger or Leatham say to always rip through the trigger.
You need to do more videos man
If your dot doesn't return to A zone, instead of stopping stacking pressure, what about either slowing the stacking while correcting or making the correction while still stacking?
I have asked this to several people and the response I get is "you might miss the exit as your trying to get off the highway" or "there is no time to make that adjustment."
I know that I do make the adjustment when my sights don't return perfectly and I don't see a difference in the split times (.20-.25).
What are your thoughts?
I'll always be as careful on the trigger as I have time to be. Pretty simple concept.
I'm not certain I follow your question. On a target where you have time to prep, I most certainly do not think of it in terms of gradually stacking pressure over time to an eventual break. It's a rush to the prep point as quickly as you can do it without accidentally breaking, then pausing and waiting on permission from the sights, then immediately finishing the last couple ounces of pressure.
@@SpecTrain thank you for the response. I'm not able to articulate it properly. On a side note, I recently found your channel and it is great. Every video I have seen so far aligns with the way I shoot. Your explanations are also phenomenal.
Man.. Trigger prepped... Slap with finesse. Clicker bangers drive me crazy
Click reset bang is how everything used to be taught dont hate on someone for being taught a safe way to do things that used to be normal....very immature attitude.