VHS: High fidelity audio you didn't expect (Part 2)
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2024
- The second part of this video is dedicated to the audio test of this amazing type of magnetic tape, VHS tape a CD and a SACD. After that, we are analyzed the best types and brands of VHS tapes (Maxell, Fuji, TDK, 3M, JVC, BASF etc.). A High fidelity sound that you did not expect!
Look here below for the best tapes for Hi-Fi audio.
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TEST comparison (in the video the levels are the same):
TRACK 1:
my.pcloud.com/...
TRACK 2:
my.pcloud.com/...
TRACK 3:
my.pcloud.com/...
Track 4 (optional, not in the video):
my.pcloud.com/...
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BEST VIDEOCASSETTES for Hi-Fi AUDIO:
TDK: Hi-Fi, HD-HXPRO (good); XP-SP (top)
JVC: EX and SX (good)
Maxell: HGX-Gold, XL-HiFi (good); XRS-Black (top)
FUJI: Super HG, A/V Master (good); S-VHS (top)
BASF: Super High Grade and S-VHS are great
All 'Hi-Fi', 'Broadcast', 'Studio' or 'Master' versions of these brands are all very good! Plus, look also for S-VHS or Super VHS, the formulation of the oxide is of higher quality and higher coercivity.
Back in the day I used to record live music broadcast on FM radio this way and it sounded 10 times better than traditional cassettes sounded. People thought I was crazy for doing it, so thank you for proving that I am not crazy!!!!
🤣🤣🤣
Not only that but you could record for 2 hours or even up to 6 hours and still have better audio!
I used to record Howard Stern this way lol
Everybody did.
All people who weren't an average dimwitted know-nothing Joe Sixpack consumer, who used their EARS and/or required long recording times did this. So no, you weren't crazy. You were far better informed than ordinary schmucks.
Same did I on the panasinic svhs deck I still have !
I was recording music on my Sony slv 575 in the late 80's early 90's. It was good for partying. 4 hours of music and no one bumped the turntable or scratched precious vinyl!
Me too onto my Sony SLHF100AS I actually found my 4 party beta tapes the other day. 3 hours each Haha
I did my girlfriends 18th then 21st then had people asking me to do parties for them.
It was fun compiling them, until you got drunk, you had a chance to mach the level with the controls and meters the sony had!
Now just make a playlist in itunes, sort off takes the fun out of it !
It's alway's magic to listen to a high resolution file recorded on analog tape... Fluidity and warmth added.
I agree 100%
When I worked at the Hard Rock Cafe in Dallas in the late 80’s we put all the house music on HIFI VHS.
You guys were avangard!
Perhaps VHS system is cheaper than traditional with same quality of entertainment?
I have been using VHS Hi-Fi audio since 1985 and have (well, had) hundreds of tapes of radio recordings archived that way in the 1990s. At the time it was a great system for getting up to 8 hours of damn near digital audio quality for only 4 quid a tape! Being from the UK we are used to longer running times for VHS that the USA, so in standard play mode you can have 3 or 4 hours of stereo audio and in Long Play mode 6 or 8 hours. Due to the very high tape to head speed (the equivalent of 102 inches per second on a reel-to-reel in SP or 51 ips in LP mode) audio fidelity was better than any other analogue system out there. I even used it in split track mono mode to get up to 16 hours from a single 4 hour blank!
As far as blank tape formulations go, there is no real difference between basic and premium grades, apart from the dropout count. Dropouts are the real killer of Hi-Fi VHS (and indeed DAT which was based on it) so usually the better quality the tape, the less dropouts you will suffer. The only real problem with Hi-Fi VHS can be tracking problems (again this also relates to DAT machines) in that it can be difficult to get a tape recorded on one machine to accurately play back on another without "motorboating" artifacts in the audio.
I have spent the last 10 years slowly transferring all of my radio recordings from VHS to digital files and have now managed to get rid of box loads of tapes in the process (mainly TDK, Sony & Maxell blanks). However I'm now wishing I'd sold the tapes on instead of just dumping them as I can see that others could have gotten some use out of them.
Rodney.
Oh no!! What a pity! Thanks for sharing your experience Rodney
I used my Panasonic VHS HiFi VCR to record CD's for friends, back in the late 80's...results were terrific. I had forgotten about this until watching this blog
I began recording music on VHS a few years ago, when my cassette deck broke down, using my Panasonic HiFi Stereo video machine. I had heard about the superior quality of VHS audio recording even before that happened, but i didn't try it, until I had no other choice. Amazing quality indeed. I can't tell the difference from a record. So I stopped using the cassette deck alltogether. Besides, high quality recording audio cassettes are very expensive and VHS cassettes come really cheap.
True! If you get high quality VHS tapes the quality will boost at an even higher level!
@@anadialog I buy chrome VHS when I find them, but normal ones sound just as good to me. Maybe the higher level obtained by using higher quality VHS, is more apparent on very expensive high-end equipment, which I regret to say, I have never been able to afford.
I see blank VHS at Wal-Mart still....great video dude!
Thanks man!
I hooked up a VHS HI FI deck to a dBX 224 unit, and that 224 just buried the noise floor. You could just BARELY hear any tape hiss in the quiet sections. It did a fine job with some Mozart. I took an ordinary EQ and set it up downstream of the dbx unit, so I could boost the highs. Just crystal clear highs.
Nice!👍🏻
When I bought the first VHS at home I looked for an stereo HiFi one, just because I wanted to have something similar than a reel to reel system, capable to record long tine... but I confess I did it whith LP and 240 minutes tapes, therefore I was able to record 8 hours in a tape!
Okay, you've got me. I bought a panasonic nv-F77 and some really good TDK tapes (new old stock) and it's incredible good quality. I still cannot believe it!
Great! Thanks for sharing that! It is hard to believe...until you try!
I guessed right! I could hear a very slight color to the tape sound, but the sound was immediately richer and fuller on the second clip compared to the first. So the first was clearly CD; cold sound but very "accurate". And clip 3 was clearly the SACD due to a sort of combination of fuller, yet tight sound. Great video - thank you!
Thank YOU!
ANA[DIA]LOG You should do a part 3 where you compare the fidelity of a Reel to Reel and the VCR!
Already on the list! ;-)
@@anadialog 🙏🏻
Yeah I guessed right too! I could notice track 1 sounded obviously thinner than the rest.
I also heard some colors, to me it's warmness, and the sound was fuller than track 1.
Track 3 lacked that warmness. I felt it was the most accurate sound to the reality.
I immediately found better sound in track 2 and 3, and finally choose track 3 as the best sounding. Then you says which was which and that makes lot of sense with my filling! Very impresive what the VHS can do.
VHS lacks of dynamics, but it sounds pleasant. Depends on an IC of course, but it's hard to find correct tests of many recorders. What we can to do is to buy several of them and compare. Fortunately they are cheap. I have a habit to listen to MCs (Type II) from time to time, and that short example reminds me that tape flavor. Really interesting...
Well just got my 20 year old panasonic from my mums and after half hour of servicing due to lack of use.. I have to say recordings to vhs hifi stereo sound superb.. Great dynamics, base and treble and no hiss.. Blown away how good they are. Result!!!
Cool!!
@@anadialog just recorded a flac CZcams track from my phone to my S-VHS deck and the recording is superb.. Makes the hairs stand up.. I'm gunna do a 3hr 80's mix tape on maxell hifi stereo vhs cassette very soon..
Fantastic!!
I forgot to add what I have been doing for high quality tape stock. I have been going to thrift stores and buying high quality hi fi movie tapes for 39 cents.
Many times I find them still sealed in plastic. They were bought and never played or they were new old stock that some seller dumped because they would not sell.
You can find some very high dollar high quality box sets of very long movies so you end up with max tape length in them. Some of the very last of the high end tech before VHS faded out had some very good quality tape they were using. Sometimes you can simply pop open the front and look at the tape quality.
Just fill up the anti record tapeindent where the tab could be broken out with foil or anything the won't crush and put a small piece of high quality aluminum tape over it and record right over the prerecorded movie. It wipes out the code signal on that tape that they used to put out so that you could not make a duplicate of the original movie that you rented or purchased.
Just yesterday I purchased a bunch from a goodwill. They did not care if it was 1, a double or 3 tape box set. 39 cents.
It won't be long and even those will be gone. I counted and I have a total of 5 really decent VHS machines at home for now. I don't worry if one fails.
I actually the VHS guess right. VHS hifi and beta hifi always have a certain "sound" to them.
Great video, will share some thoughts about tapes etc. I actually used this in the mid 90-ties until I bought my first MD deck in 98. I have sold a lot of blank tapes since I then worked in a radio tv store. You can use up to 240 m with out problems. It’s the same plastic film as shorter lengths. However Don’t use 300m tapes. S-vhs decks are not better than ordinary vhs regarding hifi sound. So go for the hq standard tapes. I still have a few tdk ehg laying around.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Actually about wear, for a VHS tape to pass and be good quality it has to provide a recorded signal for 60 minutes of pausing on the same frame before it goes to half level, which is hundreds of thousands of normal speed runs through the tape without pausing. So as long as you don't wrinkle the tape it each play will be as good as the last.
Although I agree with you, the repairing is more difficult than before.
Like Todd Ranger, in the 80s I used a VHS recorder a lot for recording live concerts over stereo FM and the resulting sound quality was outstanding by any standards.
Very interesting....SOME MONTHS AGO I GOT FOR FREE ABOUT 50 BLANK VHS tapes....so i decided to do some experiments at the studio....Works out pretty well for recording DRUMS, BASS and GUITARS
VHS hi-fi is the healthy way to listen to digital rips. You can load them up with great high quality audio for a party all night.
All or most run of the mill & higher standard Hi-Fi VHS & S-VHS machines came equip with ALC - Automatic Level Control program.
That was a form of mild compression or Limiter.
Most decks lacked recording controls because of this ALC.
As its said compression in, music life dynamics go out!
Recording music on a Hi-Fi VHS was only a temporary exercise until the recordable CD arrived.
totally converted on VHS for analogue feel such a fool for missing this back in 90s.
I used to use my HiFi VHS to record hours of radio broadcasts, then edit and mix them down to cassettes. The quality was amazing.
Looking forward the third video on this super interesting series! Cheers!
Nice video series. As someone who has recently gotten into open reel and cassettes, I was curious about how VHS tape would compare. Wild!
I used plenty of 160/180 tapes,yet those were for long mastering sessions from the turntables.I loved the Maxell tapes because I found I could hit them hard,in the red,and still make them sing.I used BASF and a few TDKs.but the main thing is to have a great deck...Fuji makes great stuff all around...
Thanks for sharing that!
@@anadialog you're quite welcome..If i get a chance,i will find the Sony semipro deck and get the model number..it's a bit heavier and solid then the usual VCR,because it's evidently broadcast gear..I also have JVC and two Ikegama broadcast monitors..oh,and my little baby Sony monitor..The VCR s match well with Sony Wega type tvs too...
The Maxell Factory Is just up the road from me (Telford Shropshire), And a mate that worked there, would bring me a car boot full of those tapes , every month for a bit of petrol money. I used to record for all kinds of People on them. Some still say, I still have that tape you did for me back In the 80's, and It still plays great today 2021 as It did back then.
When I used a flagship JVC HiFi VHS recorder in the late 80's I got the best results from recording records (with good equipment), it sounded sooo much better than CD's when they arrived. We listened to these 8 hour recordings all day everyday.. had almost my whole record collection, and more importantly rare records I only had borrowed, recorded on VHS tape. That way I didn't have to flip records all the time. And it sounded great, and I could play louder without feedback from the pickup in my record player. Just awesome.
Cool!
@@anadialog Yes, really. And your video reminded me that I just has gotten used to the flat and crappy sound of CD's and mp3's (I still can't listen to it without some serious equalizing, though) I'm gonna get one good old (top of the old line) HiFi VHS player and hear the difference again.
@@happyfox711 fantastic! It's great to know that people listen and do take action.
When I was in the Navy, I started working at the enlisted club on base in Japan and they didn't have turntables there, so I wanted to play my remix service vinyl and other 12 inch singles I had so I used VHS tape and indexed them so I knew where to cue the songs. I also liked being able to record my sets because cassettes at the time only went to 90 minutes at the most, and being the early 90's, CDR's wasn't available, especially at a sailor's wage!
Cool!!!
We would never have thought about recording music this way back then. But at my house in those days the preferred VHS tape of choice was Polaroid T120. I don't know how they were in terms of audio. But video on them was decent. I suppose you could say they were the TDK D of VHS.
HiFi Stereo is a modulated audio signal into a high frequency FM carrier in MHz, Sort of digital sampling into 44.1KHz, Even though FM carrier has more sampling than digital, the modulation-demodulation scheme is analog and has more losses compared to digital.
The other benefit of VHS over other kinds of analog tape is that it is SMPTE timecoded. In the sound test I guessed right away it wasn't 1, but couldn't distinguish between 2 & 3, but then I was using my laptop speakers, not headphones.
Thank you very much again. I started to use my hi fi VHS recorder that I hadn't been used for fifteen years. I found FUJI's cassettes in my country,Turkey. They are made in Germany. Results are excellent, I have lots of SACD ,I love them but the sound on VHS-audio is more naturel,
I felt that I missed real high quality analog sound.
Thank you Mustafa and I agree with you!
Hello. Very good explanation of audio on VHS. I have been recording this way since about 1990, with excellent results. I use the classic but hard to find Toshiba DX-990, which not only records FM audio on the video portion, but also records a 14 bit, 44.056 kHz signal simultaneously in the audio section. So you get a four track audio recorder with it. I recommend using SVHS tape in a short version (C30, C60) for best results, so that the mylar tape doesn't stretch.
Cool! Thanks for sharing that!
I've had so much fun recording on 8 track A-Dat back in my days.
You are really telling the truth about there being differences in tape quality. When I first started trying to record my jams, I was using JVC Extra High Grade VHS, and it would come out sounding muffled, wobbly and warbly. I was beginning to become discouraged, then I tried this TDK Superior Quality VHS that was thrown in for free when I purchased my hifi VCR, and the sound came out amazing. So, TDK all the way for recording on VHS!
Yeah!
TDK and BASF (later EMTEC) were always my faves!
@@Defensive_Wounds 🤘🏾
Really excited to see this. I have about 500 Fuji Film ST-120 at home that I used in a video production environment during the early 2000s. Currently digitizing the footage and was planning to throw them out; but man, you're right.. I forgot how great S-VHS audio quality was (and remember when I recorded audio mixes made on my computer to my Hi-Fi VCR for an archive back before I bought my first CD burner). Now, I'm gonna repurpose them in my stereo setup. :) Time to get my old Sony SLV-R5UC repaired (its been eating tapes); now just need to find a nice repair shop. :) Oh, and I guessed the CD correct; but I thought the SVHS was the SACD. Haha! That is a testimony for the quality! Thanks for the great reminder, idea, and video!
Thank you for your enthusiasm!
The second one sounds better. It sounds like SACD or better. I think of what would happen if the heads of the cassette decks would be performed into tiny rolling heads like those of the HVS recorders. With actual technology it probably may be possible. Thanks for your good video and greetings from Buenos Aires, Argentina.
The tape can degrade and wear due to the other mechanics in the machine, pinch roller/capstan, erase head, tape guides, mono playback head contact and also the tape loading mechanism which over time stretches or pinches the tape. As with all tape based medium oxide will shed overtime thus degrading the quality. Also heavy noise reduction was used on hifi vhs, similar to dbx and has some of the inherent flaws that noise reduction came with i.e audio pumping, particularly isolated percussive sounds and pianos. Hifi vhs does have good sound but still suffers in some areas as pre mentioned. If you are generally listening to busy less dynamic sounding music it is on par with cd but quieter musc you can clearly hear the flaws especially with headphones. Maybe this is one of the reasons it was never used as a main home audio solution to most people and also vcrs where ridiculously expensive in the 1980's. I remember my father buying our first vcr toploader in 1979 and it cost £900, you could buy a brand new Ford Capri for that price in 79 and a house for around £5000 lol
I remember when in late '80 I ripped the audio of a VHS copy of Delicate Sound Of Thunder (Pink Floyd) on a TDK MA-x cassette just to play the album in my then car... the sound was better than what I was expecting so I ripped the CD version of the same album (a long box canadian limited edition) on the same kind of cassette and then compared the two rips; the rip from the VHS was vastly better than that from the CD... particularly the bass/mid-bass was louder yet tighter and the dynamic in general was greater... the female voices on The Great Gig were shining (yet I couldnt compare this track as the CD version misses it). I had about the same experience with many other musical VHS... a Prince's live concert (Signs of Time tour), another live concert from Peter Gabriel... just to name some
That is awesome! Thanks for sharing your experience!
You also have to remember how the CD was engineered. Do you still have that CD? What was the SPARS code?
Delicate Sound of Thunder was an awesome concert!
I did allots of audio recordings from CDs and records to different VHS recorders, the results was very impressive, but when you use a high end VHS recorder with a very good tapes that makes a big difference.
I used to copy music to vhs years ago. Great for long play times.
Well, VHS HiFi has its issues. Like continous head switching noise. It also buzzes, crackles etc. at tiny dropouts on the tape. It can even switch over to the s...y (and usually mono) linear audio track in case of a bigger dropout. *BUT* it seems like most of these issues are eliminated if you record audio only without video, so the HiFi audio tracks won't be buried under video tracks. It might help if you put a shorted RCA plug (or a 75 ohms termination) in the video input, so it won't record noise from the floating video input. (Although the input has 75 ohms input impedance, so not very sensitive for noise pickup).
The biggest concern is the head switching noise. It will probably be inaudible if you record audio only, and use the same VCR for playback that you used for recording. But there are differences in the head switching point of each VCRs, so if you play it back on an other VCR, audible head switching noise might appear. So if you already have a big collection of VHS audio recordings, and you have to replace your VCR, or just the head drum in it, there's a good chance you will hear some buzzing on all of your old recordings. So if you want to buy a new VCR, I suggest to choose one with local pick-up with on-site trial option, and bring a few of your old tapes and a headphone with you to ensure if the new VCR can play back your old tapes well.
Don't forget you can not really call VHS HiFi just a very high quality analog audio tape format, because it is completely different from any audio tape formats, it is not just a bare analog audio signal, it's frequency modulated, the same way as a mono FM radio. Fortunately not the same way as an FM stereo radio broadcast, because VHS HiFi is freqency-multiplexed, there are two separate carrier frequencies for the two channels, so there's no need for the poor quality time-multiplexing that FM stereo radio stations has to do for backwards-compatibility to mono radio receivers.
Bear in mind there's a limiter prior to the frequency modulator to prevent overmodulation, so it's safer to aim -3dB or even -6dB as a peak recording level to ensure that the limiter won't kick in at peaks, because if it does, it will screw up the dynamic range. Low peak levels are not an issue because of the high S/N ratio.
Sorry, but the 'no head and tape wear' statement is BS. Yes, there's an air gap between the tape and the head drum, but this only prevents the aluminum drum from rubbing against the tape. The ferrite head cores are in contact with the tape. Not as hard of a contact as with linear audio tape recorders, but still a direct contact. If you pause for extended periods, it can cause dropout on the tape at that point, because the head cores wear out (scratch, rub off) the coating on the tape.
(EDIT: I left out the second paragraph...)
I guessed right!.
I can detect analog signals now, as analog always sounds warmer and gentler.
You can hear the bass is deeper and the high frequencies are smoother on analog, the CD was brighter than the SACD!
But I love all the audio formats, they all have Pro's and Con's. It's always nice to experience something different!
Good job!
So Track 4 the optional track is the original CD recorded to VHS. The S-CD has less dynamic range but has a master is fixed compared to the original CD release. Something was off in the original recording making it left heavy by 2 to 3 db peak. Most likely the console was out of calibration which happens to those older consoles from the 70s. The S-CD had resolved that problem and had some added weight by actually going through some really good analog mastering gear.
I got it correct. 3 definitely sounded the best but 2 was not that far behind.
Listened just on my smartphone, but my "guess" was track 1 to be VHS (cause I heard a little hiss there?), track 2 the 24-bits Cd, and then track 3 the 16 bits CD (cause the sound seemed a bit tin-canned).... Turns out I had all three wrong. But track 2 certainly sounded best to me (without headphones or without listening to the links); surprisingly even better than I thought it would be...
Subscribed. Fantastic. Jvc invented it. Panasonic pioneered it. Don't be afraid to go into the red. It's analogue. Great.
I guessed right, to me the VHS was perhaps a little noisy but the reverb sounded better for some reason the super CD was nice and rich but I kinda preferred the vhs
Just gunna pickup my old panasonic hs 1000 S-VHS from my mums I bought in the late 90's and give it a whirl..
Great!
Jealous. All I have is a Sony SLV-N55 and a Magnavox MVR650MG.
I don't really know how to articulate what I hear, but CD was easy to pick out! After that I liked both 2 and 3, with 2 having a sound that was a bit fuller with warmth that I prefer! This might just be something related to analog audio from the VHS. It is all very interesting to me and I appreciate the fact that you are covering such a range of topics!
Thank you Todd!
Great video! I used to do a lot of music on VHS way back and the only VCR I still have from many is my JVC HR-S9911U...I guess it will have to do!
Good job! That is a great machine!
Again a very interesting video. Many thanks
I have a Sanyo Super Beta Hifi VCR, sounds amazing
THANKS FOR THIS MAN!
Thank YOU!
Interesting comparison. I remember from back in the 90s when I used a Panasonic HiFi VHS, that the sound quality was indeed quite good. In this test I could still pick out which was which quite easy though. The first one had a clear issue with the tape speed of the master tape it was taken from. You can hear the tape speed up right in the beginning, making it seem as if the first chord strum on the guitar was out of tune. I figured that this would be the original CD release, taken from a not so great master tape. It made sense that this would have been fixed with a remastering, so clip 2&3 would have to be sourced from the SACD. Now comparing these versions, I noticed that '3' sounded just a bit more dynamic and 'sharper'. It had a slight edge of '2'. So '2' had to be the VHS copy from the SACD. :)
Good job! I made the exact same considerations
..bravo! Maybe I should have picked a different CD with same mastering....in any case soon I will do a different comparison and we will see how that goes...
Yeah, it was funny, when you showed the CD, I thought, 'Ah, I also have that CD, and it's a nice album but the recording isn't all that great compared to some of their later albums'. The SACD version did sound better than the original CD, but not as good as for instance "Ghost in the Machine" or "Synchronicity" which both sound really good.
I knew the second one was VHS because of the NOISE! That reason alone is why the CD was invented.
Just stumbled across this. Erm Hummm how to put this. I think you are hearing the effects of the Wegner "Panda" noise reduction system that was part of the Hifi VHS FM sound system. Basically Hif sound on VHS in the states used depth division multiplexing to record the 4 FM carrier (2 per channel per head) at a different depth in the magnetic layer on the tape to the video the video signal was used as the bias for the FM carriers. This worked but the video would cause clipping or partial erasure of the FM audio carriers so not all the side tones were fully recorded (or recoverable) so pre-emphasis and 2 or 3 band noise reduction (similar to that used on satellite additional sound carriers on TV services in Europe) was used this was Panda by Wegner I believe. This could lead to emphasised HF due to mis-tracking. We tried using Hifi VHS as simple master recorders in some studios here in the UK and found we could not get consistent flat frequency responses from them. Tape type made no difference apart from drop out and head switching noise.
I'm admiring your Philips N4520 the best by far machine I ever owned! I still love Svhs I hope my Panasonic machines outlast me. Thanks for the video.
Thank YOU!
I think it's so true that heads and tape wear out because they are in full contact. If their is a small gap between them, then why we had to replace the head drum? Why the heads get clogged all the time? Whey the VCR stops automatically after 5 minutes in pause mode?
Of course because the heads make contact with the tape.
Also to achieve good contact, the drum has grooves to get rid of the air and the gap that would created!
Of course is true. It's a standard procedure. Check this link of the patent: patents.google.com/patent/US4763210A/en
If air bearing wasn't there everything would be destroyed after a few hours. Wear comes from the rest of the trasport, where the tape is in contact. The head
@@anadialog I'll check it thanks👍👍
hi i had some HI-FI VHS tapes of ebay i can tell you the price of tapes is getting silly high i have a 20 bit ADAT the top end you get 46 min of 8 track audio
some of the tapes you showed here cost a £10 each because they are old new stock the jvc tape the brown super vhs i picked up 200 from a carboot sale 10 years
ago and today they are still good for the ADAT the one thing the adat with tell you if there's drop out's on the tape i make a note of the time on the tape using them
in vhs units it not the best way to use them. you are right about not going over 120 for video 180 for adat max i love the video's
I might have to record my dinosaur jr concert bluray to VHS
Way you go Adam!
The only one I got right was #3, the Super Audio CD--something about the drums seemed to "pop out" and sound just a bit more 3-dimensional vs. the other two....as far as VHS goes, I'm just shocked 😂 maybe since my family tended to watch a lot of older movies on our mid-tier Sharp at the time, we heard more hiss than usual, so I thought it was just a bit better than cassette, but not *this* much....I do remember some newer movies like Jurassic Park, though, having great sound, and the jump in audio quality going from VHS to DVD was never as noticeable as the video jump (maybe it was a downgrade? 😆 since I've learned about the AC3 & DTS codecs used in DVDs, it's hard to imagine it sounding better than VHS for stereo audio).
If only I had known about this back in 1996 😂 I would have been all over this!
engineer - Hi. I am using HiFi VCR from 1990 The quality of the sound is better than the CD or SACD. I have two Panasonic NV850G with a manual recording level and DBX. Do to a bad video cassette on both I change the video heads . The tape just stick around the heads and broke the rotating scanners. This VHS tapes should be absolutely dry forget about any lubrication here. The frequency charts of this VCR is a straight line fron 20 -20 000Hz on a 0 dB. The common problem with them is a noise from commutation signal from the rotating scanners and tracking stability. It is mather on tape transport and adjustment I wish ANA[DIA]LOG to make recording test between Nak Dragon on a metal tape , real to real and HiFi VCR
Yes, it is a great system but it ain't flawless! Nice test suggestion. I've taken note.
Please have a look on a video from Crino Audiohile that has performed dynamic test with sine, triangle and square signal records on VHS tape and you can see the results on the scope and frequency analyzer.
I did this with one of my friends too where he would guess which one was my great CD-player and which one was my Panasonic Hi-Fi VHS video and after listening to the tracks several times he gave up, he could not tell which was which.
Cool!
Here’s something fun to do.. some machines record audio without video some don’t. In any case, you wanna record Hifi on mix tape n something to watch as well? Play your CD on a Sony Playstation 1 (Idunno about later PS?), your tv will have the normal playing functions up, the game controller is the “remote”.
Get the Hifi rec levels right on the VCR and press (I think) select on the controller. The screen now displays various graphic displays and colors along with the rec playback signal. These are changeable with button inputs so you can be creative and interactive now with the video as both are recording. Once you get the hang of it and the timing, you’ll find a very satisfying recording experience, and something hypnotic to watch during playback 👌🏼
Lysergic!
I guessed exactly as they were.. 2 was my favorite and felt more dynamic than first and warmer than 3rd.. 3rd was offensive to the ear and would cause fatigue quite quickly in my opinion
I was a heavy user of VHS HIFI from the 80's onwards and I still have the tapes where I had recorded from vinyl, cd or radio. I also still have a VHS (or a Super VHS actually) VCR connected in my hifi system in my living room. It was my main media for recording for a long time and I even did some measurements at the electronics school I went in the 80's and got very good frequency response results. The only big drawback with the VHS HIFI system was the connecting distortion, which happened when the head transferred to the next strip of recording on the tape. This happened especially when you played your tape with an another VHS HIFI VCR, the tapes interchangebility wasn't the greatest. When you recorded and played back with the same VCR this wasn't a problem.
In the 80's I got a very high quality VHS HIFI VCR, a Sanyo VHR-4710ES, it was pretty expensive at it's time, and it also included a digital NICAM stereo tuner (used here in Europe). When I got the VCR they hadn't even started those stereo transmissions yet, so I was able to listen the very first digital stereo TV transmission here in Finland with my VCR. There is no information about this VCR, but it was the best of the best back in the day for HIFI audio recording. I still have the device, maybe I need to create some info about it. It even looked more like a HIFI equipment than a normal VCR.
Later I replaced it with the JVC HR-S9700, which could be the most advanced VCR ever made, as it had every single feature (except for D-VHS) VHS ever had, and they hadn't removed any of the features yet like they didi after that came out. This is the VCR I'm still using.
Both of course have the VU meters and the recording level controls etc. like your Panasonic, which were also good. I also owned a Sony VHS HIFI VCR which wasn't as good as the Sanyo or the JVC as a second VHS HIFI VCR.
But there were some of us who used VHS HIFI extensively back in the day. And yes, the sound quality was superb.
Wow! The best of the best! D-VHS and W-VHS don't count...they are digital! ;-)
Unexpectedly I got all 3 right even with youtube compression! The VHS was obviously registered back while reproducing, and probably the same was done with CD and SACD (or did you simply put the audio track on the video?), so I probably heard just the difference between the reproducing devices, and a difference in microdetail between CD and SACD due to stretching from the standard 44100 Hz of the CD to the standard 48000 of the video. Between the 3 I preferred the VHS, it seemed to me to have an effortless reproduction of lower end. It really has a surprising audio quality, especially if you think that it wasn't a format made purposefully for audio, reproduced on a player not designed primarily for music, and on which you use only a small part of the magnetic tape for audio!
It would be interesting to try to push on a VHS an even higher quality source, as MQA or HiRes digital audio files, or even vinyl or better reel to reel!
Congratulations! I played the CD and SACD and recaptured them with 192khz sampling rate with 24bits resolution. Then I recorded them directly on the VHS and recaptured them the same way. Regarding you final comment on high res, you have it! The VHS file with SACD on it is DSD high resolution audio!
The tape speed doesn't affect the sound quality of a Hi-Fi recording-quality is determined by the write speed which is a function of the rotary head.
They both affect the quality...obviously, as I said, it's the 1800rpm of the heads that do the trick...
It's the FM coding, not the speed. You can use SP or LP and sounds the same. @@anadialog
yes speed affects the sound quality. I have recorded and tested using both speed and at the highest speed is the best sound!
It’s affects the S/N ratio. You lose 6db (the exact number is not that relevant) as I recall, however the hifi video has phenomenal specs for analog recording so you don’t necessarily think about it. It will also be more sensitive to drop outs.
@@dieselbrodeur The only thing that matters for FM encoding is the zero passages of the signal. A slight increase in noise will have zero effect, unless the noise is so bad that it starts to affect the place of the zero passages (that's why FM radio still has noise). With the s/n ratio of the vhs FM audio signal, the impact of the noise increase is negligible.
I guessed all correctly. You can totally hear loss of high frequency clarity, especially when track 2 switched to track 3.
Good job!
I'm a late replier on your video, but you should try to record an old VHS pro-logic 4 channel encoded tape from a 4 track reel-to-reel tape, you'll be impressed with the audio from it.😃
The problem was most vhs players didn’t put audio meters and vol. controls on them. I never understood why. Should have been standard on all machines. The players sold in Best Buy or Target etc. didn’t include the meters. It’s a shame that all players didn’t include these.
True but some did and that is why you must hunt for one of those for proper recording!
@@anadialog Plenty of them from the 80's and 90's did. Only towards the end of the VHS format did we start seeing machines that lost the meters/volume controls. These was the first PAL machines with VHS HI-FI:
czcams.com/video/1TyLGJzjR8c/video.html
czcams.com/video/FufyXizCCjg/video.html
Here's a later generation Hitachi that does:
czcams.com/video/F0BY28Glf6c/video.html
And the Hi-Fi feature was exclusive to VHS, you could get it on Beta as well:
czcams.com/video/MSycvBODHYw/video.html
So those are also possibilities if one can get a hold of old-new stock blank Beta tapes.
I also find it funny that you can play a normal Redbook CD with the resolution of 24/192.
I bet the VHS sounds even better in person, because SACD is DSD instead of PCM.
ANY blank video cassette supplied new in a hard box/case will be very high quality or broadcast quality. Also, S-VHS cassettes have ultra-high grade tape inside and can be used in ordinary VHS machines.
Indeed!
I was using VHS for recording HiFi audio in the mid 80's when I was DJ'íng party and dance music of the time on the local community FM radio station in Cairns Australia. It was only a few months back that I found one of my tapes and transferred it to FLAC. I was surprised on how good it sounded even after almost 34 years!
Cool!
The SOUND on the VHS was amazing really AMAZING!!! all this time and the high quality was right there in my living room!!!! WOW WOW. (my VHS is Hi-Fi stereo but no S-VHS i can use that ??)
Sure!!
SVHS is just for the video. They both used VHS HIFI.
Well, I have guessed (or I'd rather say have recognized) VHS audio as clip #2. As for #1 and #3 I was in a doubt.
And what is important in this case is that I watched video at 480P, which means more compression for audio as well, therefore I have notices the difference even on cheapest "Genuis" PC speakers! I think that's because audio compression has brightened all the artifacts of re-recording sound to VHS and back to digital.
So that's not so good idea to compare different sound sources and/or media via listening on youtube. Haha.
TBH I struggled with the fact that there were 3 different pitches - perhaps even some wow on track1 :-(
Back in the day, I encouraged my dad to buy a HiFi stereo VHS back in '85 or '86 I think (I wanted a Rush video that was stereo). I also recall recording a simulcast of Queen on both TV and FM radio (no NICAM broadcasts then) which I think I may sill have. When I got my own deck (the first of many as they had a tendency to wear out in our house) I recall bouncing snippets of music on CDs onto VHS and back to cassette whilst editing some music for a friend - jog/shuttle was most useful!
Programs were being made In NICAM stereo since the early 80's, But the UK didn't latch on to It till the Early 90's. But I had a Decoder box sent to me by a Family member In America, that turned the Incoming signal Into NICAM stereo. Because our mast was being used for Test Broadcasts on some TV's In the area, I was able to hook Into this Signal and have NICAM stereo way before anyone else. It was 40watts Into It's own set of Speakers, And I could record In stereo from It. While the whole Country was watching In Mono still We were Watching In Stereo. And I was also recording everything that was made In Stereo as well. My Stereo version of the Desmond's Theme was so Popular, They put It In a Advert. czcams.com/video/5PmTHtCutn8/video.html
The TDK always gave me dropout issues in the day.
I finally standardized on Fuji H471S and used that exclusively until it stopped being available.
One and two sounded basically the same to me. The third stood out but I don’t know that I would say it sounded better.
Hi!
Very informative videos. I have 2 JVC S-VHS machines which haven't seen the light of day for ages. Will have to dig them out and give them a spin🙃 Look fwd to your next video. Cheers from London🤠
Great! Way to go man!
Do it sooner then later, playing them keeps the transport working. Letting them sit too long is not good!
@@indecent0079 Hiya. Found one of the machines - JVC HR-S 8600 hifi and managed to connect it to my pc monitor with scart to hdmi converter box. Happy days or would it be dazed? Pic quality not so good after so many yrs but will see how it goes with audio.
Great JVC machine!
I ace the listening test. Although I know CZcams is compressed audio but i'm also hearing the sound thru my JBL speakers because "I wanna hear the truth". Love your videos good work.
Thanks man! Remember that I always put test in high resolution files for download in the video description
VHS HiFI VCRs use dedicated HiFi soundtracks on tapes hence if the VCR tuner is receiving a TV signal (not sure if it can still happen, since we no longer have analog TV broadcast) that signal is recorded at the same time on the tape on, say, LoFi audio tracks. Since I have recorded many HiFi VHS tape in the '90s my experience is that seldom you have the LoFi TV Audio signal being played for a second or so, thus disturbing the music play and that was really upsetting.
At 8:50 you called it an "HP" tape not XP... No big deal! Great video you posted! Wish they had made 4 track or quad VHS recorders!
I have bought few days ago some JVC XZ-ST120. They are new old stock tapes. And I ordered a Philips VR6863 6head hifi stereo vcr. I think the JVC XZ is better than the XG maybe.
Maybe you should try to test the difference between recordings of vinyl - reel tape - and vhs hifi.
Tape means Analog...it's better than digital recordings !...
Music was born Analog:
Analog = infinite bits per second, and that on VHS
Analog quality is based on magnetic density, chemical makeup, tape speed and of course the format signal itself. There's definitely a resolution limit but yes analog audio sounds great off of professional tape for different reasons than resolution
Ok, while listening I did noticed second version (VHS) as dull, inferior. First version was clear, without noticeable distortions, without lack of definition of high freqs. Third version did not affect me at all.
I have to admit that I liked the second one of Roxanne before I knew it was tape. I liked the 3rd version also. I have this on vinyl from back in the day. Unfortunately I let someone borrow it to to burn a copy and they used a cheap soundesign machine with a bad needle on it. AARRRGGHHH !
Pausing the video after hearing the samples to leave my impressions. Tracks 1 and 2 sound nearly identical to me, but track 3 sounds brighter and I'm thinking this is the SACD version, but it could all be down to the mastering. I'm curious whether you made the VHS dub from SACD or from the original CD release.
I think you got the answer in the video...SACD!
Actually on the lookout for a VHS machine.we have some home movies of when our kids were younger that my wife wants converted to digital.i will give this a try when said VCR is obtained.
Good idea!
Salve : Sono qui a confessare la mia enorme inferiorità nei Suoi confronti, in particolare nel Settore in cui si sta disquisendo.- Lei ha perfettamente ragione : indicando la Luna, guardavo il dito.-Lei mi ha capito, vero ? ! - Comunque io La ringrazio, citandoLe un detto, che non ammette eccezioni e vale per Tutti , Uomini e Donne e recita così : “ Fin alla bara, se impara”.- La ringrazio per avermi letto sin qui, e con rispetto La saluta ringraziandoLa per la pazienza, usata nei miei confronti.-Con l’occasione auguro a Lei e Famiglia, Buone Festività, e soprattutto Buon 2020.- Aldo Valori, one Man Band, Songwriter ( Music And Lyrics ).-From Verona Veneto, Italia.- 12/10/2019 , Anno Domini.-
Macché inferiorità, siamo tra appassionati ma bisogna pur essere aperti e obiettivi. Grazie comunque della sua gentile chiusura. Auguri anche a lei!
I guessed all three instantly, i was surprised because i thought the sampling rate off youtube would equalise them all at an even lower quality than all of them, that itself is interesting. I guess that's why you send in the best quality audio for youtube videos and mastered for iTunes. I was able to tell that the vhs was done with the higher sacd, and could hear the silkiness in the high frequency. Such a contrast to the cd. Then i could hear the increase sharpness in the actual sacd. You could use the vhs as an effect in the studio. This can give the feel of tape without losing to much fidelity.
It is interesting to hear the original recording must have been in tape, you can hear someone put there finger on the reel to make Andy's guitar go flat at the start of the song, i guess this is why sting laughs. Having the master in tape means you can get the 192 for hi res. No worries. Question, why cant i get this song in MQA, this really annoys me, i pay so much and all this early stuff would be so nice in hi res.
Btw i used to master my four track to vhs, now i know why. I think i might do my garage band masters to vhs this will give the virtual instruments that analog feel without losing quality and i can use it as a live backing tape, the dynamics will be great for live use, this could be the way to go. Thanks for the info, you may have just changed my life.
Thanks man! Cool! Keep us updated!
I knew this back in the 90s and made a VHS "audio" copy of an old R2R family tape to send to a relative with a note saying "sound only, no video". The original tape contained voices from my childhood (including myself and siblings). Considering that the Scotch tape was recorded in 1962, incredibly it sounds like it was recorded yesterday!
How cool is that!
Narcissism at it's finest.
Hi! Did you ever release the vhs comparison video? I just ordered a Panasonic ag1980 and I’m deciding on what tape to get. Using it to add some tape saturation to my loops and samples. Thanks so much!
Not yet...coming up!
@@anadialoghey did you ever Make the VHS tape comparison video ??
and can you tell me is there a difference in audio quality between hi-fi VHS and hi-fi S-VHS??
Thank you ✨