Fluke 1AC Voltage Detection Stick Repair
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2023
- Repairing a failed Fluke 1AC Voltage Detection Stick
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#ElectronicsCreators #Fluke #BatteryLeakage - Věda a technologie
Dave, you have just caused all your viewers to check all their battery-operated devices for leaking batteries! Well done on saving tonnes of e-waste.
Well, I was laughing a little at the "There could be more damage in here than I expected"! It's amazing how far the damage from a leaked battery can get if it's been given enough time, particularly if the item in question has been stored somewhere that gets even a bit of humidity - the KOH absorbs moisture from the air and forms a really nasty concentrated solution that can wick into tiny gaps and creep along surfaces brilliantly.
Solder mask is very resistant to it, but as long as it can get any contact with the traces it'll just corrode its way along the copper and wick its way between the trace and the solder mask, so it can spread surprisingly far without any sign on the surface of the board, except where it pokes its head up from beneath the mask wherever there's a pad or a component leg or a via to give the game away.
The only way to permanently fix it is to scrub the solder mask off all the traces from the point of contamination until you reach clean copper, then remove the corrosion and repair any broken traces. Obviously not worth doing for a voltage stick, but this nightmare is all to common for folks repairing vintage computers and the like, which tend to have been sat with battery leakage all over them for the last 30+ years in some old shed or attic!
I only have 2 problems with these testers: every once in a while I'll drop one and of course it will land right on the tip and break off. The second annoying problem is they will grow legs and mysteriously migrate into your coworkers' tool pouch unless you religiously return it to your shirt pocket after every use.
Gosh that happens at my job all the time too.
The euro design ones have a better tip, a round one instead of a flat tip.
I have one of these in my kit that I haven't used it for awhile..........just raced out and removed the AA batts. No leaky rot. All good. You saved one today. Thanks for the reminder 😄
Not worth lifting the chip, but I would have been tempted to solder some fine wires through those dodgy vias.
I was also tempted...
That was the first thing I thought of, cleaning and soldering the vias, removing the mask, tinning the paths and applying a new UV mask to protect against moisture and other battery leaks.
Nice day 🙂Tom
Same. A few minutes with a blade & a bit of hookup wire.
Any reason not to just fill the via holes with solder?@@EEVblog2
I bought one of those several years ago... that stopped working within a couple of months of light intermittent use. Found it's ultra econobudget batteries had spooged & destroyed it's PCB beyond hope, _far worse_ than your example. I suspect said batteries were leaking upon delivery. A year or two later, (and against my better judgment) bought another that turned up on sale,... & immediately swapped it's factory batteries for fresh; and life's been ponies & rainbows ever since. However, as this is an extreme low use 'instrument', It gets stowed sans batteries.
10:15 - your error I have just come to.
One cannot neutralize acid with another acid.
The other corrosion is a result of alkaline fumes/
gasses within the environment of the instrument
that cause other damage --- it is not necessary to
be subject to direct contact with an alkaline compound.
What you are neutralizing is the Alkaline substance
that leaked from a corroded 1.5v cell.
Alkali compounds are very corrosive
and much worse in that regard than acidic compounds.
One can always apply some clear Nail Varnish over the
affected areas - AFTER first removing the corrosion and
re-soldering if required.
Naturally, it will last until the next time the batteries leak ;)
Ha ha. True :-)
I've seen "no-clean" flux give symptoms like the "corrosion" between your IC pins. When the no-clean flux is processed at the recommended oven temperatures, the active chemicals are "passivated", making them "harmless". Sometimes they are still active and become conductive or corrosive with age and humidity.
Thanks for the teardown/repair!
Carl
Those who buy ssh tester for use in Europe should be careful that they have a round tip. Many stores sell flat tipped testers. They do not go into European sockets and can give a false negative. I found this when I bought one.
Or just use a Duspol
Good job finding the board retention clip.
I wouldn't have thought of that location.
Vinegar bath in ultrasonic cleaner is the way to go for a definitive fix.
And that soldered clip is a nice and clever design.
And then a rinse with DI water in the same ultrasonic cleaner
Thanks for the video Dave. I received one of these from Fluke UK when they recalled their 3-pin plug-in tester a few years back and checked the cells. Fortunately they were OK but I swapped them out for a couple of lithium ones with a 20 year shelf life to be safe.
I use the Greenlee GT-11, has been working for many years. I do store it with batteries off, insert them only prior to use.
An ultrasonic cleaner is great for corrosion like this under microchips. There are even acidic ultrasonic cleaning solutions. These are even better at removing the potassium carbonate buildup. Components that are too small can have so much of the solder fillet removed in the cleaning process that they can lose connection with the circuit. I would rinse with a high percentage isopropyl alcohol (91% or more) after to prevent water corrosion. Not sure about the beeper. Maybe plug it with some kind of tiny hand carved rubber stopper from an o-ring of appropriate diameter. I don't think taping over the beeper would work because the ultrasonic cleaner would warm up the tape and loosen the adhesive. Good luck with future repairs. I love to see it!
Unsolder the beeper, then chuck the whole thing in the ultrasonic cleaner. Also note that many cleaning solutions are alkaline, as they tend to be used to remove oily crud.
...
For this mess, just put it in a ziploc bag of vinegar, etc and drop the bag into the (filled) ultrasonic. That is a great trick... you don't need anything other than plain water in the tank, you can use a small amount of specialised cleanser only inside a zip bag... The vibrations pass from the water into the part and it's surrounding fluid.
...
Then remove and do the same bagging and a mild alkaline to neutralize, then ultrasonic it in a bag of Isopropyl or denatured alcohol (metho) for final clean and rinse.
...
I would also add a couple of bodge wires through those vias, as they were pretty dodgy.
It will never be 100% fixed because the battery leakage has already got under the PCB's laquer coating and will continue to creep over time.
You know the old saying: Who doesn't take the chip off once, will repair twice 😅
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
"Pounding an edge to sharpness will not make it last."
I just found my identical fluke tester also had battery leakage! I couldn’t figure out how to get the board out and it’s been sitting on my bench for weeks. Thank you so much for this video! Haha I was so surprised to see this video pop up; made just for me 😅
Definitely like the Fluke detector. My parents had a nursery and in the greenhouse there were multiple cabinets withs rows of bottle fuses. They should pop out there color coding thingy behind the glas, when blown. But from some period (late 80's or so) that didn't work so well anymore. Tapping on the fuse helped a bit sometimes. A Fluke detector was a real handy tool for this, just hold it for the glass. No beep = blown fuse. Saved a lot of headache. I use a Fluke T130 detector for mains quick check work. A Fluke 1653B installation tester for more serious work.
Hi Dave, I have used NiMH AA batteries everywhere for several years and they don't seem to leak. Even when they are sitting in the device dead for a while.
These are Panasonic ones from Dollarama at $5 for 2 and some of them have over 200 cycles. Power is good, about the same as alkalines, and they hold a charge for about 1 year. I have a 4 cell charger which can charge 1 to 4 cells in 4 hours and then goes to trickle charge.
Just for fun, here is a list:
Kitchen clock (takes 1 cell which dies every year through self-discharge but doesn't leak),
Multi-meter (works great and indicates low battery after about a year),
Mosquito zapping tennis racket (gives a really good zap and zaps 'em dead),
Electric can opener (opens the toughest cans),
Laundry room vacuum cleaner (for lint),
Smoke alarm (beeps every year when 2 cells get low),
Flashlight (put batteries in when needed),
Portable radio (listen to the news every morning),
LEGO Technics motors, lights and sensors (takes 6 cells and has good power. Over 200 cycles and still seem fine. Maybe losing a bit of capacity, but it's hard to say).
Love your shows 👍
Cheers from Canada :-)
Use white vinegar to deal with battery corrosion, it stops it, then clean off with IPA.
That was the first thing I wanted to see. Just finished treating an old Radio Shack metal detector with battery leakage. The worst part was one of the battery removal straps which had some alkaline crap in the weave. It kept fizzing with several applications - but when it stopped, a rinse with IPA and it looked perfect.
Yeah, Dave, get an ultrasonic cleaner ... something decent. My $30 cheapie isn't good for much.
You didn't watch the whole video 😅
@@EEVblog2 I have to admit to skipping a few bits... I commented early on when I saw you use IPA on the IC.
LOL !@@EEVblog2
Have one of these in my pocket daily. Changed my LED to blue thou, much brighter and unique!! Out of all the volt sticks I trust this one the most!
how ironic how the right amount of alcohol solves the problem
The problem is that you have to trust your test gear because around mains your life can depend on it. I definitely wouldn't be trusting this :)
Always bridge it with your screwdriver….trust but verify 😂
That model has a test button, not sure if it tests anything more than the batteries and the LED though...
Good stuff. I do use them but not often. check and double check to make sure it’s detecting when working around higher voltage.
I literally just bought one of these!! Came in the mail today!! FLUKE LVD2 'Volt Light'. Fluke are having a father's day special apparently :)
What's the difference in the two models?
Might I suggest immediately swapping out it's batteries for ones known to be fresh and of good quality.
@@rwbishop It came with a Panasonic Alkaline (use by 08-2032). The button power switch is hard so there shouldn't be leakage through circuit. Have you had a bad experience?
@@EEVblog2 Biggest difference is visual indication only. It has an LED torch which turns on with the clicky clicky hard power button switch (LED is always on when... on...). It indicates blue with varying intensity the closer you are to a source, turning red when you're 'at the source'. I've had a play for a couple minutes and was able to follow a chased lighting circuit in the wall which was kinda neat. It claims to have 2 sensitivity levels but not worked out if that's automatic or selectable.
I tried to link the Father's day Fluke sale (Australia), but I guess you're not allow to link stuff in comments because my whole comment appears to have vanished into the ether and I had to write it again. doh!
@@corenelius Yes, a few years back bought one that had _hopeless_ leakage issues within mere months... forget what batteries it came with, but do recall they looked name brand. Suspect they'd been leaking prior to delivery. Have heard both then & recently where others have had similar experiences. EDIT: I suggest only removing, visually inspecting & swapping in new batteries... as Dave found, removing the PCB is traumatic. If leakage is noted; just return it.
I have the same model but mine recently stopped working altogether following a battery leak. I cleaned the crustiness off the battery terminals with IPA without disassembling it and it seemed to be working fine but a few weeks later I got the same symptoms as you; a single beep when pressing the button. I ended up getting a direct replacement as I've used it for years and been really happy with it. I've kept the old one just in case I ever get round to having a look inside but that clip looks a bit of a pain. By the way, I'm sure the LED is red only as I've never seen any other colour with my one.
I find in locations with wide temperature cycles, the battery acid can vaporize and condense in odd places, especially in an enclosed unit like these. I use dry cells for a lot of low current stuff nowdays.
Good video
I replaced all alkaline batteries with lithium ones in all of my devices. I also use deoxit. BTW I think you meant to say you neutralize the base (alkali) with an acid (vinegar). Thanks!
Was using one recently and realized how accurately chosen names are valuable and appreciated, i.e. "detector". Not like "Bionic LED", "Battery Daddy" or "Frog Tape".
I have one of those and I use lithium primary cells to reduce the risk of leakage.
Thankyou! You just saved me 25 bucks.
My grandkids like to take my clamp-meter down in the basement and use it's non-contact probe as a Ghostbustes meter by checking for ghosts around the washing machine, water heater, etc. The display lights up red when they detect a gremlin and the number indicates the PKE energy. But they come running back upstairs as soon as they see a spider. Cheers from Canada :-)
Long term a good wash in destilled water/ isoprop 30:70 mix and a good dry on the heater for a few days would reliably sort it. Of course a spray with wet protect would be a bonus Beeper opening needs to some blocking ... hmm, wrigleys?
Put Energizer Ultimate Lithium's in it. I had to replace the battery holder in my Fluke 289 due to leaking alkaline batteries ) cost me $70USD for a new battery holder. I only use Ultimate Lithium batteries in it now.
The Fluke 1AC is the only one I'll use. I've owned a couple of other sticks, but they've given me false negatives and led to me nearly getting shocked. I threw those away and bought another Fluke.
Yeah, the Fluke is the nicest one I've used.
I had to replace the 100M resistor after a drop (less than 8ft) created a hairline fracture in the center of it.
thanks for you comment, mine stop working after a drop, i desoldered the resistor and was broken
Related: Also known as a 'chicken stick' in some circles/regions.
I have a Testboy 113 and that Fluke 1AC-E II, but I prefer the Testboy since it has a flashlight at the back and seems to be more sensitive.
Enjoyable teardown & repair, Dave. Cheers, mate, don't think I can afford a Flukey one but this has reminded me to get one of these 'idiot sticks' as the haters call them.
Wow! you're good enough to start an aussie repair business!
I've been ridiculed by others telling me these are the most dangerous tools you can use around electricity because they lull you into a false sense of security because they do not work well. I stil have and use mine.
When powering higher-quality or higher-cost equipment, I’ll use either NiMH if high current, or Lithium. I’ve never had one of these leak.
I would submerge it in vinagre, possibly scraping away solder mask where there is any hint of damage. Not just using a tiny bit of vinagre.
Then you need to use quite a bit of isopropanol afterwards of course.
Dave I had the samething happen to my fluke too I had energizers that leaked !
Remember to neutralise the leakage (even under the chip) using some vinegar on an earbud.
Dunk it in vinegar, that's what neutralizes the battery schmoo (alkaline), then you can clean it with isopropyl after a rinse
You didn't watch the whole video
dave, if you dont already have an ultrasonic cleaner, it might be worth getting one, and using it in situations like this one.
Yeah, investigating that now.
I wanted to see the other colours that 'RED'' LED was gonna produce, second visit video perhaps ? I'm guessing because it only has one cathode and one anode and no control chip that they are made out of some special material with unusual spectral emissions lines tuned to 50/60Hz and of course the standard 'red' case is a ruse, it's probably a buffer material of some type (guessing here folks!) that adjusts the refractive index to suit, bet it's gonna look great being Fluke an all !!....cheers.
Bought one of these at the famed SEG market in China years ago, the alkaline batteries supplied burst their gizzards a few months later and wrecked the entire unit 😭
I always dump the factory batteries. I don't trust them.
Likely you need to use vinegar first and then Isopropyl to clean it... and the legs of the chip were shorted.. very good job Dave
I did, watch the whole video.
You are Correct... I commented too fast... but I would have started with the vinegar and then the isopropyl. which you kind of did you did isopropyl and then vinegar and then Isopropyl again... it all works... too bad there was board damage and it wouldn't be safe to trust the tool again.@@EEVblog2
I put a hole in a AA battery today calibrating my battery spot welder and that electrolyte was all over my workbench in seconds. It seems less viscous than water.
Very rarely do my batteries leak, but I don't live in Australia or Austria
6:36 the marking looks similar to TI parts (underlined G4).
Dave, you can't neutralize acid with vinegar 😁
I'd have defeated the locking tab if the PCB is held in position by the removable cover - you know it's going to have to come apart again.
FWIW when I first saw the tab my thoughts were WTH is a crystal doing in a device like this and what is Dave going to do now he's smashed it.
Great video ! Are the Lithium ion batteries sealed better ? Saw this Fluke model on an EDC youtube video for seeing if a fallin wire is live or not... Tim Lipinski
When mine bit the pole i gutted it and put the innards of a circuit tracer inside and piezo spkr on the big end of it.. still works.. didnt trust fixing something that i use so i dont die..
I think companies have a origami department that designs housings.
I don't use those sticks a lot. Tracing a single cable in an installation or finding an interruption in a cord, that's fine.
Checking for actual voltage? Nonononononooooo!
That is what my trusty Benning Duspol is for.
I have one that doesn’t need batteries. It beeps and the tip illuminates. How cool is that.
That's why I use low self-discharge rechargeable batteries on mine.
It is not acid in alkaline batteries.
A small ultrasonic cleaner filled with some vinegar should do the trick. Just wash it later with IPA and you're good to go.
Would an ultrasonic bath help in cases like this?
Not trying to justify new toys or anything 🙂
As an electrician I hate that kind of testers, as many false positives (induction) as false negatives (cable sleeve is 1mm thicker), most of them are a waste of time if not dangerous... A funny experiment you can do, touch a live wire with a voltage detection screwdriver in one of your hands and hold that tester in your other hand, it should beep...
And that is why I use NIMH rechargeable batteries. I have never had them damage a device. I own a couple hundred at this point.
15:16 I didn't know these were made to discriminate so as to actually be useful. I have a cheapo one and it glows near any cord, even e.g. a USB cord connected to a computer plugged in. So even if the wire isn't live, it picks something up via ground.
You mean constantly glow? They do glow if you rub them to the cord.
Yeah, poor design.
@@okaro6595 Mine is an Extech DV20. Glows 4-5 inches from a USB cable connected to a powered phone charger. Glows 1/4 inch from a USB cable going past other cables but not connected to anything. A long coat hanger near the wall triggers it from half an inch away. I notice when I hold my fingers around the (insulated plastic) end it's much more selective, even allowing me to determine which conductor is hot on a 2-wire AC cable.
I would expect these types of testers to light up around ungrounded power supplies because of the leakage through interference suppression capacitors.
Q. Do you have Duraleaks in Australia? I've just dug four out of a heritage Philips DVM. Horrible things. Another note to self, if it's not in regular use, take the batteries out.
Sometimes, when repairing something, the best thing to do is stop. 🙂 Otherwise you risk the dreaded "fixed it until it quit working - again, and permanently" phenomenon.
Could do with an ultrasonic clean, to make sure all of the leaked acid is washed off.
Quem ver esse video tive o mesmo problema com a minha. Abri a mesma limpei os contatos e os 2 terminais com alcool isopropilico e uma escova velha,depois lixei os terminais com um pedacinho de bombril,problema resolvido.
It seems like vapors leaked from the batteries, then accumulated where it was comfortable.
Eu inverti os polos das baterias e depois de esquentar pegou outra vez. Mas só por um tempo, depois retornou a dar problema. Nao tenho problema de vazamento de bateria. Por que será que pega depois de esquentar invertendo os polos das baterias?
Dave I do not remmber - but do you have a ultra sonic cleaner ?
I would like to see some methods of repairing via's ?
Thanks again
Looking at getting one.
@@EEVblog2 Dave I made the comment before the end - where you said " thinking about getting one " .
Maybe an idea for a video , design & build your own .
Seems like a good one is too expensive for what is inside ?
Touch up that via... and try this one again to see if it was not a Fluke.
I have a generic chinese stick that a friend gifted to me, it has such a bad design that the batteries get really really hot after 20 seconds of operation
I'd have considered immersing it in vinegar for 5 or 10 minutes, followed by immersing in water, then letting completely dry.
I used vinegar in the video.
You need ultra-sonic cleaner, even a small one.
You certainly wouldn't want to use Costco Kirkland batteries, tend to leak. I use Varta myself.
I had one of these I broke the blade tip in a over painted outlet, sent them a request for a replacement end cap.
They said that there on no user serviceable parts other than battery. They asked my name and address and I had a brand new one in the mailbox in about 5 days. Cudo’s for Fluke. They can’t maintain their certifications and liabilities letting some one fix something that could kill someone if not correctly done, understandably. Try that with a China company, they don’t care if someone gets killed
If they can sell 10 billion of them before their item is banned.
for those who (also) dont know how it works (how it's used) jump to 09:07
i would just spray the board with generous amount of contact cleaner and scrub ofcourse
10:30 Since vinegar is a (weak) acid, how could it "neutralize the acid"?
The battery is alkaline, the opposit off acid. A car battery is acid.
Old bad gramatical habbit.
I give it 4:1 odds he gives up on the repair. I'm still going to watch though.
"I'll just use this white vinegar here to neutralize any remaining acid."
Are you sure you passed chemistry? Vinegar is an acid which means that it can't neutralize another acid. So perhaps you meant "alkali"?
Old bad habbit.
ALL battery-operated gadgets should be given a conformal coating to protect them from battery leakage -including all multimeters, it is such a cheap insurance that I can't believe manufacturers always skimp on it .
I'd do a repair/clean video on it. lol
alcaline, Dave😊
cell or battery ?
How about rechargeable batteries instead do they leak ??
Rechargeable NiMH and NiCD batteries occasionally leak but not nearly as often as alkaline batteries.
Conformal coat the board while you have it out.
Buzzer has stopped in mine....comon fault?
I doubt it is a custom chip. If they did this with a custom chip, they'd implement it as a COB under a blob.
Dave. Im sure youve seen the vid. You need to tear down some scientiology tools
That looks like a Texas Instruments MSP micro there.... 🤔🤨
Based on pinout? Fluke use an MSP in their meters.
If so I wonder if it's code protected
😄based on the marking of the underlined G4 that's quite common Texas Instruments marking style Mr. Dave@@EEVblog2
Looking forward for another video at EEVblog😀@@EEVblog2
#10:11 any remaining base
Please name and shame the leaky battery manufacturer (I just rescued a UNI-T UT210E with leaky Duracells, evil things)
Hit it with some conformal coat and see how long it lasts. I think you got your money's worth out of it.
You can see the alkaline fill has soaked the board fibers, so long term it will continue to corrode under that soldermask, till it has eaten all the copper pads. Short term cleaning works, but now after a few months all the traces will start to be eaten away from the rear. Only fix is to make a new PCB for it, and transfer the IC, battery clips, beeper, LED and snap clips, and replacing all the other passives, as it will be easier than desoldering them. Yes will have to guess on the capacitor values, so desolder, and measure, then replace with new. 100M resistor replace with 2 47M in series, a lot more reliable from a noise side.
Or buy a new one. They are cheap.
@@EEVblog2 There is that, but sometimes you get simple but expensive things with leaky cells.
I have a clone of the FLUKE 1AC Voltage Detection Stick
and it operates just as well - there is no point in paying
a premium price for such a simple device - unless one has
more money than brains -
When it comes to Meters and such -- other special instruments -
it is prudent to buy quality instruments and tools.
I have tools and equipment manufactured - mostly in DE
which I was supplied with by PHILIPS decades ago --- and it is
still like new -- and will be - long after I am DEAD --
It is saddening as PHILIPS is not what it was --- most of it
has been sold to CHINA as has the AWA brand - as well as SHARP
It all started going down with the demise of RANK - ARENA and
with PHILIPS importing TVs from Italy - Malta and Yugoslavia.
I used to look forward to the TESA and TETiA meetings - and
that is no more either..