Kitesurfing Water Start 3 BEST ways to manage it easily - Tutorial
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- čas přidán 24. 06. 2024
- In this video tutorial, i show you 3 Kitesurfing water start ways to manage it easily. Why the most common one is not the best? The most commonly used one (1-Up-down ) is the worst one. There is one for stronger wind (2- power stroke) and the one that helps you the most because the kite is going up instead of down (03-down-up ).
The first water start (01) is like wakeboarding with a boat without a tower. The rope is attached near the engine, so pulling you down. It's possible to wake but not that easy. The 3rd one is like doing it with the tower as the pull is up helping you to stand.
Learn the best water start techniques with this video. This tutorial should help you to understand all the water start techniques in kiteboarding.
Chapters:
0:00 The 3 water start possibilities
1:34 Up-down - (most common one but the worst one)
3:41 Power stroke (best for powered days)
4:38 Down Up (best overall )
6:04 Advantage of this water start
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Took several classes and never heard the differenf teachers i had about these three different waterstarts techniques, a new world just opened to my eyes, thanx!
Glad it was helpful! Hope it helps you out to progress faster.
@@KookProofActivityCenter it will 🙏 i'm sure
Hi Tiago. Thanks for the good content. Here are some observations about the beginner waterstart. They are based on the input of thousands of students and dozens of instructors over the last 17 years or so in our school:
Kite: Student should be aware that they need to have enough control over their kite to commit to 2-4 efficient powerstrokes, linked together (without stopping at the bottom or top of the window), until they have enough forward motion and apparent windspeed to stabilise the kite at 10 or 2 o'clock.
-"Efficient" here means 1) sheet in on the bar for sharp turns, then 2) out to accelerate the kite as it comes out of the turn, then 3) back in again to harness that speed in order to generate power. (as you explained at about 5:15) If the instructor is trying to get the student to waterstart with 1-2 strokes then most likely the student has been given a kite with too much power and too long lines, without first developing sufficient control over their kite. Evidence of this is when the student flies over the board again and again in their waterstart attempts.
-It's best not to bring the kite back behind 12 o'clock to start (or anytime during) the powerstroke, this just destabilizes the student.
-The upstroke is just as important as the downstroke and should go right back up to the top of the window in the first strokes to help pull the student up out of the water.
Board: 2 things need to happen with the board in the first part of the waterstart; it needs to point downwind and it needs to flatten out (so that there is not too much edging).
-Rather than extending the front leg as the pull of the kite comes in, both legs should be kept bent to keep the student close to the board, so that less power is needed to get going. You are totally right that the student does not need to "stand" on the board. They can keep this curled up position with the legs bent until they are up and moving over the water, then they can straighten their legs.
-One of the biggest tips for the first part of the waterstart is to point their forward shoulder downwind and towards where the pull of the kite is coming from. This puts pressure on the forward toe to flatten the board and point it downwind.
Good videos, keep it up!
Matt-0 Teachings thanks for the feedback. Some nice tips also.
thanks, very professionell video
One tip from me: do not try to stand up at all, point the board downwind, roll body forward after the stroke and let the kite pull you while keeping a very low stance, this way you can easily get comfortable with moving on the water.
This is the best water start video I have seen. Really appreciate the discussion on all 3 methods. Will help a lot!
A new video will come soon with a new method and its application according to conditions
These are so so helpful thank you
I've being teaching the Down up technique since the first video was released and is game changing! Thanks a lot!
Great, Love to hear that!!😉
Love it 👍
This video is GOLD. THANKS VERY MUCH !!! I love the down up. Very elegant and logical.
Thanks for the feedback
@@KookProofActivityCenter haha I forgot I gave previous feedback. Now that I’m riding I came back to it. Some teachers explain these techniques without being able to be precise about the mechanics of how they work. You must be one of the best teachers of water start out there. I will check your channel for advice on how to progress. Hopefully one day I can take lessons at your school. I live in Tarifa now.
Glad you’re up and running. It will be a pleasure to have tou at our spot.
Thanks, sounds like a good thing to try!
Let me know how it worked
This is gold.
Thanks for the feedback. Stoked you like it.
Thank you for these detailed lessons, that other instructors didnt get into
I’m glad it is helpful.
Thank you
Really nice Video!!!!!!!
Thanks paulo
It was pretty hard doing the water start but after a couple times practicing it got really easy
All becomes easy with repetition. Thanks for the comment.
Helpful explanation. I learned with the first version and was very lucky to get good riding in my first set of lessons. Later I learned a slightly different way which is more gentle, similar to version 2.
Rock on!
thanks
You’re welcome
It will be Nice to see a video about How to recover a Kite and a Board , like we see You, carrying it…😮
Teach Us , How do we do get going while we are in the Water.
Thank You !!!
_Those videos already exist on the channel_ . *Here is the board recovery* - czcams.com/video/C9isl75zlQE/video.html and *here is the kite recovery* - czcams.com/video/5LTmP1JHYNs/video.html _Hope you enjoy_ .
This is a post i made a while ago, but the audio wasn't good. Here is the correct version. I hope it is helpful.
Thanks for the great video Tiago. Would be more useful if you can show a point of view cam at 7.14 rather than looking at yourself. From a beginner’s point of view, it is very helpful to be able to see the bar and the exact kite movements needed at each stage, to learn these techniques. Cheers.
Thanks for the feedback. I’m recording as soon as I can a new updated version so I’ll try to add this point of view
@@KookProofActivityCenter thanks Tiago that would be great 👍. Any footage without seeing what the kite is doing makes it difficult for a beginner to guess what you are doing.
You have the kite in frame at 4:41. As its the explanation of the movement. At the 7:14 it’s just me showing it but I’ll try to combine different points of view next time to make it easier to understand
In the end it all depends on the student, how are his/hers skills and how does he/she handle and understands the power and what kinda persons are you dealing with as an instructor.
I prefer a build up in power and a good focus on the legs and the power needed from the legs/knees. Start at 12 and go steer to 11 and try to get out of the water by using the power of the ite and your legs. Not enough? Go from 12 to 10.30, after that got from 12 to 10. Standing up by now and not crashing the kite? Go the 2 power stroke if needed to continue kiting.
But don't forget your legs and knees!
Of course, legs and knees are essential, and also the skills of the student play a role. The power is the same if the kite goes from 12 to 10 or if it goes from 10 to 12. The difference is from 10 to 12; it is helping to stand up as the force is going up. Also, if you fail on 12-10, the kite is going to the ground and can crash easily, destroying or helping to destroy it faster. Try it and see the difference.
Nice video as always Tiago!! :D
When i ride my self and i crash - i sometimes take the kite from 3 or 9 to 12(SLOWLY) and start that way - i dont teach this method but saves time and takes less space in crowded areas :)
Also; will we see some advanced water starts like downlooping or laying flat on the belly? ;)
if you do it try teaching it you will see the results are way better that with the other technique and way safer for your kite also.
Nice tip! I was always making N1, I will definitely try N3! Just one question: Do you have a video or tips on how to leave the kit 45º once you waterstarted? I am managing to waterstar perfectly and keep going, but I am always controling the kite that it goes up and down, I can't seem to leave it fixed at 45º to have a steady run and just focus on body and legs. Would love your input in this! Thanks
Keeping it steady at 45 depends on your speed. So you need to control this by edging more or less depending on whether you need to slow down or increase your speed to maintain the kite in the same relative position. (It will actually move forward or backward in relation to you but it should maintain at 45) You can adjust power by moving the kite(which generates more) or changing your edging. This edge change will change the relative position of the kite to you and the power it delivers.
Can you advice on foot motion, press with heels or toes to get the right angle of board to come out of water?
You press first with both heels and then once you start going stretch the front leg.
There is much to learn for a beginner like me.
There is always things to learn. Knowledge keeps evolving.
After years of up-down waterstarts, this video is blowing my mind. I can't wait to try it out!
Do you know who invented this method? Was it inspired by the kite loop waterstart? Is the bar sheeting similar for the kite loop waterstart (sheet in to steer, then out to center in window, then in again to power up)? Do you have any experience with the backstall method?
Sorry for so many questions, this video was very eye-opening. I am trying to push my lightwind foiling to lighter winds. Which method would be the best for light winds?
Abraxas Filibusterofini i first heard of it the guy that trained me to become an examiner years ago. It wasn’t exactly like this, and i have been testing and perfecting it since then. It was not inspired by the kite loop water start, but that one works well also in light winds. The critical point is to use as much as possible of the power zone but have the kite pulling up and towards the edge of the wind window. The back stall method doesn’t use as much win window as the other two that cross it on the longest possible run. The down-up also gets you upward pull that helps you to stand up. That is why I recommend it to beginners in light to moderate winds using short lines. For hydrofoil in light winds should be very useful and give you the power to start and continue easterly. Once you test it out let me know how it went for you here in the comment box.
Kook Proof Activity Center I got to try it over the weekend. In light wind with a large kite (14M), the kite ends up near 1 while turning it around. However, I had success with driving down from there and quickly up through the power zone during the waterstart. So more like a U-shaped stroke. What I liked about this was that the kite ends up high in the window just at the moment I need a second stroke to start foiling! So a bit different from stronger winds smaller kite but still a substantial improvement from the conventional up-down. I’ll keep playing and practicing this in future sessions, thanks for the great tip!
Abraxas Filibusterofini glad it was helpful. Have fun in the water
Great new technic, thank you! (this video have much more clear voice audio too!)
Tiago just one thing to understand now, you are suggesting this technic mainly for the students, or you think the Down-Up is a better technic overall and so also for intermediates and advanced? you think also give a good advantage on very light wind water start too?
If you are an intermediate or advanced, you can use whatever you like as you master the power of the wind. You can start using the technique you want or a combination of them. If you are beginning the method 3 is just more comfortable and more progressive. You can use the other ones after to complete your progression. In light wind, it is definitely the best one as it uses the full power of the wind window, and it is helping you to get up.
@@KookProofActivityCenter thank you very much Tiago, I share this video to all my beginner friend and more!
@@GaetanoCrisci Stay tuned for the upcoming videos. There will be a lot of tips for beginners and also for more advanced riders. 😀
hi, thanks for the video. i don't really see much difference between methods #1 and #2. it seems like in #2 you just don't get the kite that much down, and this is it... basically depends on how strong is wind. #1 is just more amplitude thing. am I wrong?
That is more or less correct. The main diference is between 1 and 3 in the low wind.
Hi, will the proper kite size make a big difference toward a successful waterstart? I’ve been stuck at this stage for a little while and feel that it’s holding me back from progressing further along. I’ve taken two waterstart lessons from two different people (training with a 13m c-shaped kite) and the different bits and pieces of advice still isn’t helping me ride. As of now, I can get up but will plop back down when I try to waterstart. I also feel a bit underpowered. I weigh 220 lbs and my home spot has 20-25 mph winds on a good day. Therefore, is the 13m too small considering my weight and wind conditions? Should I consider getting a 17m and keep practicing? Thanks.
Hi Matthew. After a few conversions, i understood your size and winds. You can ride with the 13 c-shape in those conditions, but you need better skills. An SLE kite (bow or other design with more depower) will be way better for you to progress. A c-kite needs to have better power control as it’s less forgiving due to more precise power delivery. (Easiest way to explain). Practice will help you a lot, but i would get a different kite also. I guess you struggle more on light wind days. So go for the giant kite. In 17, i would say the ozone zephyr is a great kite. You will eventually get to the point that you will also be able to use the 13 by moving it up and down to generate apparent wind after the water starts to keep the power-up. I hope this helps and keep practicing. Cheers
Thank you so much Tiago for this useful vidéo. I appreciate your teaching skills. I have one question : in the dow up technique do we have to point the board downwind or parallel to the kite?
Thank you
Parallel to the kite. No need to point downwind.
And knees are bends equally or the rear one little bit more, I mean after starting sliding on the water
Both knees bent. Then once you get going. Stretch the front leg.
@@KookProofActivityCenter thanks again and hope to see you in portugal next summer 🙏
Looking forward to it. All the best and thanks for the feedback
If a power kite has fallen into the water and I am far from shore. How do I lift it out of the water to catch the wind?
Is it possible to do so being alone? If possible, where can I find such a video with a visual explanation?
Thx
A power kite that doesn’t have closed cells is not suited to use in the water.
Hi Tiago
I am quite interested by your « down up » technique, and wonder if it is more efficient on a spot totally « on shore » with a strong shore break and a wind quite light , in addition reduced by wave current (apparent wind)
In these conditions I need to gain speed very quickly after a first wave pushing me to the beach to be able to jump efficiently the next one with upwind speed. In addition I cannot afford any additional move downwind (at least more than the push by the waves)
The kiteloop waterstart works ok but it is quite difficult to time it properly with a large kite and the coming waves in your back when the board is just under your feet.
Does down-up allow less downwind move than an agressive S up-down that I used currently? And compared to a power stroke ?
Thank you anyway to open my mind to new technique😎
starting in onshore conditions is always complicated. You need to get as much space as possible. Having waves makes it even harder. But this technique is for sure the one pulling you less downwind as you are carving almost from the start. Still you do go a little bit downwind as you need to generate some some speed. Glad i could help out.
@@KookProofActivityCenter Sounds good, I will try ASAP!😎
On the same spot, I need to use all the length of the beach to gain a little bit upwind! When at the end, would it be useful to make the tack transition with a similar technique to avoid to loose any ground? With your experience, is it something you would recommend as I never seen a video showing it as transition?🤓
I don't think so as a transition; I would make a normal one trying to maintain height.
I discovered power stroke method on my own after getting launched alot with up down method. Question about down up. Is the starting position same with up down, where board should be perpendicular to wind direction?
The starting position on the down up is with the board parallel to the kite. So it is already pointing downwind. There is a section on the video about the position of the board in that method.
@@KookProofActivityCenter yes you did mention about board being parallel to kite. But at what position? At 2 oclock?
@@christopherjohnmercado1568 Yes, when starting it’s parallel to the kite so 2 o’clock starting point the board should be parallel to the kite position. This way once you start to move the kite the board is already pointing downwind helping you to get speed and stand on the board.
@@KookProofActivityCenter very interesting. Will try this!
Yea ~ the music is mostly annoying but thanks for turning it down for this version refered from original ~ (You don't need any music thanks) ~
I'll take this video down and leave just the one with good sound.
There is one more good low wind method for more advanced rider which is to kite loop, you do it by pulling hard opposite side of bar where you wanna go.
True. But not so easy to master for beginners. That is why I left it out.
There's a 5th method for low wind, but works only with softkites: backstall the kite at 12 o'clock to sink it deeper in the wind window, than stear it into the direction you wanna go
@@Lack0 I understand your 5th method (I use both LEI and foil kites) but it looks for me quite similar to the down-up method Tiago described, with difference of just pulling the bar vs pulling very hard and wait to a clear backstall before sliding the kite through the power zone. I am I wrong or what are your main differences? From your experience, any difference between the 2 techniques on the downwind drift during the start that I would like being minimal on a very tough « on shore » spot ?😎
it is similar but a t the same time diferent as you need to point downwind to absorb the direct pull from the kite. in the down up you are already carving so you go a bit less downwind.
@@nicolasboudet9302 I don't really use the backstall method. Actually I prefer Tiagos down-up method in low wind conditions and use the sheet in and ride method in stronger winds. I bought a new very fast turning kite (Kauper Maverick) a few months ago and with this kite on long lines (and also with my old Rebel on 13m lines) I can start with a 6th method: simply move the kite between 11 and 1 o'clock back and forth till I can stay on the board and then ride in one direction
Hi Tiago, will this technique work on light wing or larger kites 12, 15, 17m as the bigger kite are slower to respond?
Many thanks for the great videos
No problem with the slower kites. And it works great in low wind
Very interesting, will try those myself. But the sound is horrible!
I know I’m making a new version with better audio. Sorry about that.
Good tutorial but fix your audio. It's annoying and choice of background music is dstracting. Get rid of the echo by recording in a room with a carpet and softer surfaces.
I know. It’s one of the first videos. I’ll re make it again now with better audio and no music.
Hello, didn't you forget to start with a kiteloop?
Start at 1.30 and fly straight to the other side to 10.30. Don't fly a curve - always pressure in the kite.
That is another possible one but I wouldn’t recommend it to a beginner.
@@KookProofActivityCenter Yes I understand, but what is easier? One steering movement at the beginning or several in the middle of the starting phase.
But it is only recommended when there is little and little wind.
Just that you know this option. has previously practiced with a Stuntkite, ...
I know this option, it's a bit harder than option 3. You do a downloop on the edge and let the kite pass through the power zone parallel to the ground. This is useful in low wind days but i would only recommend this to experienced kiters. A beginner might not be able to do this correctly and the mistake might be painful for him or for the kite.
Yes, that's right. Better safe than sorry.
But kite boarding has become so easy with the Bow`s. It's been almost 20 years since I started. But still a good tip!
It is a lot easier but that also makes people less careful and less aware of the hidden dangers. I've started in 2002 and since i learned by myself i had a lot of accidents and near accidents so i try to make is easy for the people learning.
Better audio would be great!!
New video with better audio coming soon. Sorry for this
Please please, teach everyone to set up like this. Do not leave lines lying all over the place. Take-off and landing positions must be the same. That's better, isn't it?
Not exactly sure what you are referring to. It’s not a great idea to leave lines lying around.
Hello, lay out the kite end to the wind and complain.
Lay out lines 90 degrees to the kite end. Start position! You already have the starting position. Leash, inflate and action.
Do not inflate and secure. Lay our lines to the wind - No !! Why?? That the lines will later be pulled across the beach, maybe over rocks or shells. AND: no Problem with start and Landing with your Broth’s
I understand your point regarding the side setup of not dragging the lines over obstacles. However o the downwind setup you can do a line check before launching with a lower risk of acidental launch. I prefer this over the side setup as i usually use good beaches to launch. But i get your point.
@@KookProofActivityCenter What about the place on the beach?
Most of the time there is not enough space. Then the linen - (salt). Build the way you land, my opinion.
Why build like that? How do schools want it?
That audio is horrible.. so much easier to learn on land. :-)
The audio you are right. I’m making a new one with the correct audio. Waterstart on land is great to hurt yourself. It’s called water start.
@@KookProofActivityCenter honestly comments like that make you look so stupid.. typical iko scare everyone to think that the only way to play save is with iko . Open your mind
Still no valid point.
Thank you
You're welcome
I'm having big trouble getting up on the board ! I have quite a few kites ranging from 7/10/11/12/12/13/17 ohh & gaastra 12 ! North , Best Cabrina & Gaastra from 2008 / 2017 , my board is massive I'm 6ft8 17 stonne I've grown out of 2 wet suits but not giving it up
@@drewbee6248 Don't give up. Can't really get the weights, but I'm guessing you aren't light. With all that gear, you should be able to ride. Did you get lessons, or do you have any help? If you are in the neighborhood, pass by our center, and I'll help you out.
I've been thinking I've got the wrong kites for my weight , when I started it all the beach was empty now I couldn't get a place on the beach until everyone goes back to work . until then I'm not doing anything just waiting for the new winter season so I can get a 6/5/4 suit , hopefully most will be back at work , fingers crossed lol
@@KookProofActivityCenter I had some lessons but at £45 per hour is a lot of money if your not being taught nothing , all I was told is some people get it & some people don't