Who asked for this, and who okayed it? WTF is BMW even doing?
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
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Honestly, I'm open to being wrong, here. I don't think I am though. It really feels like BMW M has lost its way, and more importantly, it feels like BMW has forgotten about enthusiasts like me. What do you think?
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Timecodes:
00:00 - M is the most important letter
00:45 - A Dismissal of heritage: the original M3
02:04 - ... but BMW is a business, and I get that.
03:01 - What is BMW M Doing?
03:25 - I am biased.
05:19 - But I still feel disconnected from the brand.
06:30 - Today: The XM and everything wrong with it.
10:40 - The change of the M Colors
12:18 - Is BMW to blame? Well, let's ask Porsche.
13:35 - I'm looking at you, Mr. Van Meel.
14:13 - But what about the 3.0 CSL?
17:02 - This whole thing comes from th eheart.
20:03 - So tell me what YOU think. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
BMW lost their way when they introduced the 318ti.
It's a fair argument.
fair
Fair but wrong, Look at the cult following those have. They were just ahead of their time with those. A RWD Hot hatch with a stick shift? Pahleeze?
Disagree. Small economic fun cars saved BMW back in the day when they almost went out of business. The BMW Isetta, and 1600/2002 line. BMW has sold hot hatches in your Europe for ever. Like the 135i hatch, or the 2002 touring model.
It's always been one of my back-of-the-mind project cars to swap e36 m3 running gear, brakes, wheels, seats, aero, etc to build what I guess could be an early version of a clown shoe M coupe? Idk, having owned 2 corrados I guess I have a soft spot for that shape...
I went to a local, small BMW dealership recently to get my airbag recall done. They had a couple nice cars on the showroom floor, but the clear “pinnacle” was the XM. The salesman said every single dealership got one, and also they they cannot sell them to save their lives. Funny enough, an older lady was there for something and she said “is that like the new minivan?”. That’s what the average person thinks of this monstrosity. They think it’s a fucking BMW minivan 🤦🏻♂️ The pinnacle of the M lineup looks like a Lego minivan
If it were a minivan, it'd actually be good.
This is the part that confuses me so much.. your average car buyer has no idea about "M" and it's historical significance. They're either gonna buy the big ugly luxury SUV or not, and it has nothing to do with the badging. I'm convinced BMW would sell the same number of grocery getters regardless of badging. So why water down the heritage and in the process alienate all your die hard fans
Hilarious!
They insist on these lego-like crappy angles and they ruined even the final models that looked nice.
@@greattoseerobinscoreexactly. BMW has lost their sense of clean elegance.
As someone who works at a bmw dealership and sees these cars every day I can definitely agree with you. The other day I was thinking about this exact topic because an x2 with an m sport package came in and had m stripes on the grills. I can only imagine what the original 400 members of the bmw Motorsport division in the 70s would have to say about seeing m badges on a grocery getter crossover
x2? didnt even know that existed lol
@@Dulc3B00kbyBrant0n they have everything from 1-7 lol, an 8 is coming soon apparently...
@semra156. Same here. Drive that x2 around the block. Its absolutely horrible.
The x2 m35i is actually fantastic
@@dsluggg yeah, rented one in Munich last month, drove for a week on the Autobahn ) 300hp and handles ok... smaller, sits lower to the ground than other "grocery getters" x3-7s.. weighs a lot less than them too. This video does make some good WTF points about the XM, but let's not forget - there are M2s, M3CS. After owning 4 generations of 3 series (and 2 M3s with no traction control), I get the point.... But you know what? The M5 and my m550i (even with its numb steering feel and all the weight) are in no way a deflection from the legacy and still are a lot of fun (and you drive family in COMFORT)... And for true thrills, go to Germany, rent a race-prepped newer M car (or even the M135i) and do 4 laps on Nordschleife - you will feel much better about the M legacy )..
I remember when BMW made a big deal of the carbon fibre roof on the M3 CSL as a way to save weight. Now they are making a big deal of fancy lighting in it to remind you of a nightclub, and they’re proud of that. Says it all - the brand for playboys rather than serious drivers. Sadly you are right in your analysis and I agree with every single word you say.
You just summed it up perfectly here
there are some pretty alarming stats regarding demographics buying specific brands at disproportionate levels... like blacks buying twice as many mercedes as non latino whites despite them being only 15% of the population, whites around 60%... so on average a black person is 8 times as likely to buy a mercedes as a non latino white person.
unfortunately brands are all too willing to change their identity to suit those forking over the money. still cant believe the amount of rgb in all of the luxury brands, looks like your friends drug dealers civic who put rgb and underglow throughout the whole thing, tacky as hell.
@@morkzorckerborg5000 Not to mention that shit laws emission standards set under the 70's that incentives car manufactures to build larger "light truck" suvs. It further exacerbated what I call the building up of grocery getter mobil artillery. Can't pass a driveway within 50 miles that doesn't have 1-4 iterations of some chonking behemoth of a "car". Really Jimbob?!? You Really NEEEEEED an F150 V8 crew cab for your on average 1.64 child family from place to place!?!? What the fuck happened to sports cars being the cool status symbols of America.
Plus have you guys ever seen a mx-5, Z4, corvette, or s2000 parked next to a Cadillac Suburban. Makes you feel as if your rinding in one of those tiny toy cars you give children while all your neighbors have tanks! The number of times I have almost been hit in my roadster by some jackass in a god damn TANK class SUV makes me want to just give up on driving anything fun and suit up into with an M1 Abrams myself. haha
@@morkzorckerborg5000we are talking about BMW M badged vehicles not Mercedes and not racial groups. If you want to talk about Mercedes at least compare Mercedes AMG to BMW M.
If you want to talk about BLACK FOLKS ruining your brand go talk to WHITE FOLKS to go buy more of your brand or at least take it up with the NAACP and convince them to to talk to Black folks to stop buying your favorite brand. Otherwise let's talk about BMW M series and what it used to represent and why BMW has decided to depart from the roots of this particular branded model lineup which was Motorsports and racing.
Yeah because they sell the most cars including the M cars to people who only buy BMW's as a status symbol rather than the motorsport heritage
As a long time E46 owner, everything said here was spot on. Something that makes me sad day to day is noticing new KIA’s that look better on the road than my favorite brands new line up.
EXACTLY! KIA, a completely unknown (at least a couple years ago) brand has soooo much better looking modern cars than what BMW is doing.... What they are doing simply hurts so much, especially as a german. And they get out these horrible designs and ruin their brand just so they appeal to the foreign Chinese market in the short term, that does not actually care about them the moment they get their own better cars! Its simply sad that they are leaving us behind like this. But the designs are simply beyond horrible
KIA,inspired from BMW, now looks BETTER than BMW.
Not only have they ruined M for M Enthusiasts, they have ruined MINI for MINI enthusiasts.
And now they will ruin Alpina for Alpina enthusiasts too
So true!
But no one cares about mini, it's FWD
True, the r50/r52/r53s actually felt like what minis are supposed to be, they could easily be turned into track weapons, and even stock they feel amazing to drive. Now they’re just big bulbous ugly car…like a 4 door mini? Come on man 😂
I love my R53. I got two! Such agile nimble cars, and the supercharger whine is amazing. Shame to see what happened to them.
How did we get soo far away from early 2000's perfection? This must be exactly how muscle car guys felt as the years went by.
Well at least muscle car was killed by government regulation and not just stupid brand decisions
@@Thumper68in the end, driving will be killed by government regulations.
@@Kiwaloayo Red Barchetta by Rush! It is coming true, we will own nothing and be pretend to be happy or else the government will freeze our digital currency 😬.
@@Thumper68 And they are striking again with all the cars that are being discontinued for electric models. I think stupid brand decision def has a hand in killing the Charger and Challenger, I don't see that going well I see those cars everywhere.
Muscle Car guys and BMW purists just don,t want to see the M badge on a pig, like the X6 and the X 😅
You're dead right about the M3/M4 situation. I recently bought an E46 M3, which was my childhood dream since NFS Most Wanted. Next up on my list are E30 and E24. Sadly, this just shows that the brand doesn't offer me anything relevant from today's lineup.
Great taste my dude, Most Wanted has kept me in e46 m’s now for the last 12+ years haha
I don't really know how it is in the States, (been a long time since I was over there), but in europe, dealers don't even want the old BMW, not in their show rooms, almost net even want to trade them for a new, you get very little paid for them at a BMW dealer. They simply don't want to connect with the heritage. I mean the old BMWs were a piece of art. E9, E21, E24, E26 M1, E28 M5, E30, E31 8-Series, E34 M5, Z1, E36 M3, E36/8 Z3M Coupe (I know the clown shoe, but I like it), Z8.
@@richardsilwerfeldt6175 where are you in Europe? Exporting cars to the US could be lucrative if done right
One of the best essays about an automotive brand ever published on CZcams.
The entire auto industry has lost their minds... In so many way and you nailed all of it in the case of BMW.
Agreed. So often it feels like style is more important than substance, and they'd like an arm, a leg, and your firstborn child for it.
Wtf M a SUV. WTF US BMW DOING. THEY LOST THEY WAYS MOTORSPORT TEULY OUT OF THE M.. 😮
Effn people M would be mechanical specifically differentials sway bars, arms or suspension, exhaust 😢 name only😂
except Toyota
I agree, all the makes are tripping over themselves to make as mid of a crossover as they possibly can.
As an AMG fan i will offer my condolences to M enthusiasts, as (at least to me) AMG badge has also lost it meaning
It has but not in the same way bmw is known for performance vehicles while mercedes for luxury and one of them doesent keep up with that
AMG made the legendary GT, while M made this monstruosity. I know AMG makes many generic AMGs sometimes but when they are focused, they make magic still.
People who I know nowadays buying AMG and M, only buy them to brag. They don't care about motorsports.
The new C63 is a four cylinder hybrid... the SL 43amg is ALSO a four cylinder...
AMG is dead!
@@leviathan5207 and for that you have to shell out 100k, so sad i have to say, and i m bmw addicted.
Completely agree. Their older cars are just better and really have a soul. Getting an E34 5-series as a daily was one of the best ideas I ever had^^
Bmw client advisor here over the last 4 years especially it’s really gotten out of hand, the B58 is very well crafted and the M340 while it wears a fake M badge is honestly a great car, I’m worried next gen will kill it.
Very well said man, nice to not feel alone. It’s made me hate my job. It gives you nothing to look up towards to stay inspired besides a commission check which only gives you the warm feeling so many times. I loved this brand. I was a die hard with my 06’ 330 and my tuned 340, best cars I could have possibly dreamed for and still afforded in those stages of my life. I hope that they lean into their motorsport fans even just marginally otherwise I really plan to leave and go work for porsche bc I just cant do it anymore lol.
HELLO, good to hear your job title, would you agree the E83 X3 is the best ever BMW SAV? my 2007 IMO is their best design. OH, and btw I watched some of your bmw reviews before.
The B58 is phenomenal. I love my M240i (F22). 340 estate is lovely too. Sad to see what they’ve done to the brand.
@@joesmith9216 I enjoy the E83, it’s pretty cool, my personal favorite BMW of all time is probably the E46 330ci which shares an engine w the E83. I’m just not a big SUV guy.
@@seeafish 🥲
@@CarJuiceYT ok, it's obvious the new x3 was modeled after mine, but yet, the back of the new x3 SUCKS, esp the silver thing on the bottom bumper.
What bmw really needs is a guy like Andreas Preuninger as the head of the M department. It’s quite impressive Porsche is still making a aspirated 6cil with a manual gearbox and analog instrumentation
You're forgetting Porsche was a performance company from the beginning. M and AMG and the likes were bolt ona to the base business of selling as many cars as possible but now we're at the point where a performance division car is pure profit for them and not at all about performance.
@@DarrenKrusi that’s the sad part
They did, his name was Albert Biermann. He left BMW and worked with Hyundai and Kia for a while creating the Hyundai N cars. Now he’s retired.
@@jakeflicks and honestly, I'd pick a premium car from Hyundai or Kia nowadays over the big German brands
911 is the only car that has remained iconic and true to its roots for over half of a century of iterations. nothing will ever compare to the legacy of the 911.
I am not a BMW fan, nor am I a BMW detractor. I found this video interesting and informative. What I especially liked was how well you made your case and how articulate you are. Great video!
pointless comment. How did you "understand" it if you never touched the brand with any form of interest? 😂😂
Man. You're definitely great at speaking your mind without insult. I love your perspective and the ability to listen and grow. Full disclosure I'm an Audi guy but I see total value in every angle shared. Kudos!!!
Many of us share the sentiments in this video. Please bring back the classic //M we've all grown up to love. Thank you for making this video!
Yup. Agreed. I think most people will say that the E46 era was peak BMW. BMW has turned from the Ultimate Driving Machine to the Ultimate MARKETING Machine...
💯
Yep
I would say 2010 was peak, I mean a v10 in sedan??
If you think about it the E36 was already seeing some of this marketing come in to play with the sedan and convertible models. I’m sure it was all a numbers game to get what they wanted to produce and it being justifiably to shareholders. As mush as I hate to say that they are in the business to sell cars. Even with the M coupes you can also see that. But the M division has always look to the parts bin to make some of these cars. So it makes sense to me it just kills my love for the M badge.
e38, e39, e46…not just peak BMW, but peak car.
As a poor kid growing up in late 2000s and early 2010s Turkey, movies like "The Transporter" or games like Most Wanted made me fall in love with BMW and I couldn't wait to grow up to buy the latest BMW when I would make it big. BMW inspired me to work hard in my classes and get a good job, and now that I've finished High School, and now I'm in a country where cars are more accessible, I choose to drive anything else because modern BMW is not the same BMW that raised me.
Relatable.... old BMW was something else
The transporter and those bmw produced mini movies!
absolutely agree, i grew up in south africa and would go to racetracks with my dad and see e46 m3 csl’s duking it out with gt3’s and remembering how impressive that was, fast forward a few years the e92 m3 came out and a friend of my parents bought on and i got a ride in it. Since that day it became my absolute dream car now i live in the US and own 2 of them, it’s a car that was inspiring to young people and i don’t get that from the brand anymore. Porsche has done that for me i don’t care all that much about any new M-cars.
Same here. Modern BMW is a huge disappointment
How's the traffic?
I’ve never looked at it that way before, but now that you mentioned it I completely agree with you and I would be happy for the m3 to return to its roots.
You really spoke straight out of my heart.
Im also really impressed since you were part of BMW's history while it kind of was what it used to be.
For me the M8 GTE and the M6 GT3 kind of mark the beginning of BMW's move away from their past, but I dont know why.
These racecars simply look kind of odd to me and do not spread the emotion an Z4 GT3 or M3 GT2 could.
Im also saddened by current developements and I hope that someday the pull the emergency brake and turn into the right direction.
Greetings from Germany :)
You’ve hit the nail on the head. Sad how the M division is just watered downs their vehicles. They should have made the 4 series the “4 door” and kept the M3 as the coupe.
They couldn't because of their stupid new nomenclature. Even numbers are for coupes, even if they have four doors, and odd numbers are for sedans.
@@jordangoodchap26824 door Coupés should not exist at all.
I think my favorite quote, 'Impressively fast night club on 23 inch wheels'. I agree that a lot of these brands have diluted themselves - Audi S-class, BMW M-class, etc... This episode was spot on with a lot of things in the auto industry. ❤👊
@@user-nx7io1ns7pthis is not the place
When I was young, my father had a Opel Kadett GSi, the one with the 2.0L engine, 16V and 150HP. It was an incredible machine and the Joy I felt driving with my Pa is irreplacable to this day.
Than, he had to replace the car because the Turbo busted two times in a row. This was the first time my father went with BMW. And he bought the E39 540i. My God what a beautiful car it was. That growling V8 is still ringing trough my ears. He had the car for 4 yeaes and when I turned 14, he bought the M3 E92, wich I still consider the last true M performance car since it was the last naturally aspirated M model.
Now dont get me wrong, Im not saying that the modern BMW M models are bad, in fact, they are better and more powerful. Cars like the M5 CS are incredibly capable machines. And Ive driven em all. From the F80 M4, all the way back to the E36 M3. Every single M model (RS and AMGs aswell because I have a big pool of connections)
Not a single one of the newer M models compare to the M3 E92 or older M models when it comes to PURE DRIVING PLEASURE.
Not just because of the V8. But because of the entire package. The Looks, the feelings, the design of interior and exterior. Everything. Something no modern BMW can give me.
And while I could have gone with a BMW M model myself, I simply choose a Opel Corsa E GSi with 210HP. Now of course this doesnt compare to any BMW M model, but actually, on country streets and curvy roads, it delivers a way more fun experience than any BMW can deliver you nowadays. My father felt like a young teen too once he driven the hell out of my GSi.
Small hatchbacks feel like a Go Kart on the street. We had to sell our M3 E92 due to high maintenance costs. But I know one thing for sure: Nothing is good ng to replace the sheer Joy that an old BMW M brought you.
Absolutely right. I grew up with the original M1 being the pinnacle of aspiration. I used to walk to school past a BMW dealer with a metallic grey E24 635CSi in the showroom window, and every day I stopped to stare at it. The E28 and E30 were the finest daily drivers in their classes. When I could afford them, I bought and drove and drove and drove my E46's, my E91 and most of all my several beloved E39's, sedans and Tourings, in which I must have done half a million miles. It is many years since I have felt the urge to pass a BMW dealership and look at what's inside. I have an old Porsche and an old Mercedes too and you're right, those brands have paid far better respect to their heritage, especially Porsche. My current all-weather do-everything daily, though, is no longer a BMW: it's a Toyota. If you'd told me that in 1989 I'd have laughed in your face.
Long time BMW fanatic, here. I remember buying and fixing up my first one back in the early 90's. It was just a lowly e21 that lit the fire I have for the brand. This is the best video I've seen on this topic. You're spot on in every way. I remember a time when M actually meant something. What a time to be alive.
I'm just glad it's so easy to resist the marketing urging you to buy the latest models. My bank account is very thankful I don't need to buy anything newer than 2009.
Hard to believe people were complaining about how big the E36 is when compared to the E30. The new 3 and 4 series are the same size as the 7 series used to be.
You absolutely nailed it 100% and with your knowledge of past and present I feel it is a valuable take on someone who drives with passion, that being said, that’s what you’re missing is the passion and I can hear it in your voice. How much do you long for those other vehicles from the past.
I totally concur. Mike, I literally bought my E28 because you hard work both building and documenting the history of classic BMWs had demonstrated the rich heritage of the brand. Had it not been for Stanceworks and Rusty I don't know if I would have been able to appreciate the understated design of the 80's 5 series.
Couldn't have said it better myself, Mike. I LOVE old BMWs. I LOVE them. But what they are pumping out today just leaves me absolutely baffled. I mean every car company has had their ups and downs, but BMW for the past 10 years or so has felt like they're a gigantic troll effort to see how much shit they can get away with.
You absolutely nailed it. I feel like you voiced every BMW enthusiast out there. Thank you.
Exactly
I agree. I had the E90 generation 335i and I’ve not driven another generation of 3 series that I felt as connected to as a driver since. They can be objectively be a better car on paper but they never felt like a drivers car like that generation.
I have an E39 530i and I'm obsessed with it to the point, where I'm feeling more love towards it every time I get to interact with newer BMWs. It's just like I'm proud that despite the age and affordability of that car, it still remains a role model for the balance of things it provides to the users. So far it has been a car for me that always makes me turn around for a glance when going back home, always got me roomy, comfortable, stable, relaxed and easy to speak when going 200 at the highway sitting in passenger/back seats, when I've got the occasion to being driven in it. It always gave me the feeling of quality, none of washed switches, nothing falling apart, no squeaks, this feeling of solidity hits me especially when I'm jumping in it straight after driving other car (E60 of F10 for example), moreover it's really easy to use, it's mostly wise designed, can come with almost every option that the E38 7 series offered and it's spot on the line when it's not getting all to heavy to drive well. Man, that car slides exactly like you order, there is no surprises, there is no interruptions in the connection between the car and the driver, it's blasting through the corners planted and I could basically continue all day long. As long as all of that paradise isn't covered by rust, it's even very reliable. I'm pretty sure I'm not getting any other car as I've tried many other BMWs and nothing else gives me the same feeling and satisfaction, it might be tempting, nice to get something new, but at the end of the day, it's disappointing. That's why I'll just put the money in E39 to make the upgrades, cause it makes much more sense for me anyway 🫡
The e39 is the embodiment of the perfect vehicle. Modern enough to have creature comforts, and diagnostic capabilities we all want, old enough to retain the classic mostly analog driving experience, all while being extremely practical as a daily driver. They can also quickly become an addiction, I now have 3 of them in my driveway.
@@photonpilot__ nice, I agree with you completely, keep them coming haha, me as well would love to get another one, something more elegant, let's say marakesh brown with pappel natur decors and black/beige interior, pre filt without any M tech stuff, powered by 4.4 v8 with 8hp swapped 🫠
A very (sadly) accurate assessment of the current state of affairs at BMW M.
I’m also a lifetime fan and it’s become increasingly difficult to
A) Get excited about the brand
B) Defend the brand from naysayers
Yes, most manufacturers are moving to “cleaner” alternatives, but that doesn’t mean you get to completely ditch the formula that made you great (///M especially).
The glaring comparison that was made to Porsche was absolutely spot on…
Despite modernisation, Porsche has not forgone their heritage.
I guess my only option now is to get a Porsche the next go around 😔
Apparently, the Macan actually handles and drives pretty carlike despite being an SUV according to some people.
@@faheemabbas3965it's a crossover.. so basically a car/hatch but lifted 2 inches. Don't expect SUV capabilities.
Yup BMW scorched earth their heritage.. for sales and the Chinese market.
I admit to people that I'm only a pre-2011 BMW fan now.. before they threw steering feel out the window
Its all cars.. Not just Bmw
@@t16205 it's not though. Porsche proved bmw didn't need to sell their soul to the extent they did
Even my aunt's CX5 turbo with EPS has much better steering feedback than the half dozen modern BMW I've tried, including an M8 Comp
You right in general though, as a trend. Difference is BMW extolled these values specifically with the whole ultimate driving machine thing, then tossed them out the window
BMW, like pretty much every other car maker now, doesn't want to cater to enthusiasts because they work on the cars themselves. They want people who pay $300 for an oil change and tire rotation at the specified intervals. Because that continued maintenance money is the subscription model that makes them the most money. And especially true of people who love the older models and probably can't even afford even a base-model new car.
Man, I was forgetting about the subscription bullshit, now I'm even sadder.
Loved the video and passion. Good on you!!!
Honestly man I love this video I couldn’t agree more and your closing remarks really show that you have so much love for this company and it’s history and it’s clear you just want them to do right by us again
Very well said. Even if I don't own an M car (1992 7 series) I am still left puzzled by the direction BMW and the M division are going in.
Don't worry. They seem more puzzled than we are
lol
M3/4 is a great car, very very fast and great daily. So is M5CS. Drove new X1, was very pleasantly surprised. This one looks horrible.
Well said Mike. I will never understand why the M badge ends up on everything. I miss the days when it really meant something.
///Marketing
Nowadays I wouldn't be able to tell real M car from a regular model with M badges.
To sell cars to non car ppl, they see M, o it’s fast. Until that is so diluted and is no longer trusted.
Mike, I love your videos. They're always so well done, and your voice is fantastic for the narration. I'm relatively new to the BMW family, having picked up a mint, 2011 E90 328 xDrive with 39K miles on it back in 2016. I've since purchased a '19 X3 M40i (G01) as my wife's daily driver and the B58 is an amazing engine. My daily is a 2015 M235i (F22) and it's been fantastic. I do feel the 4-series wasn't needed and only muddied the waters, so to speak.
I wanted an older BMW but most E30/E36/E46 are way overpriced if it's a nice, low mileage example, otherwise they've been clapped out by some flat bill, vaping bro-dog. I was giddy to pick up an '83 320i Sport that is completely rust-free and am working to bring it back to life. It needs SO much work, but as a guy who loves the old BMW designs, I am really looking forward to the day that I can have a 100% analog driving experience. No RGBs needed.
Cheers Bro. Thats the best point of View I've every heard. I am a german Engineer in automotive industry. In 2012 I worked for BMW in their huge plant in Dingolfing.
Looking back now makes me cry. Only 11 years later and M GmbH transformed into commercial bullshit, fucking up its own legacy
Completely agree.
It's a strange feeling when you get more excited about concept cars from Hyundai (N Vision 74) than you do from BMW.
That's you only.
Keep liking cheap cars
@@hassanger8128 😂
Concept cars aren't real cars, if Hyundai turns the Vision Cybercrunk into a real consumer vehicle I'll eat my shoe
Not even money can get enthusiasts a new BMW they can enjoy.
You have summarised my thoughts perfectly. As a proud owner of my e46 M3, e39 540i-6M and e38 740i as my daily, I have totally disconnected from the brand. Sadly it’s all about chasing shareholder value. If only the world shifted to focus more on authenticity than market share growth. I’m sharing this vid with everyone I know. Greetings from South Africa
Fellow South African here. You have a very nice collection. Enjoy it man
I agree. My wife and I have owned several BMW’s including an E30 M3, three E36 M3’s including a race car, an E46 M3, and our current E92 M3 with just 20K miles. On our last trip to Germany this June my wife and I stopped by the BMW museum in Munich, and I came away thinking how I would be hard pressed to have any desire to own anything new on display, which is sad after being die hard fans of BMW M street and race cars since the 80’s.
Companies change, like their people.
BMW did not change for the better.
It's really ridiculous considering that they have the option to just find another naming convention for this "uber luxury" division, especially considering they own Rolls Royce, they could definitely bring some of their people over, make a new division or just buy out Alpina as a branding tag, and have an option that doesn't ruin their own legacy.
@@dumbotterlover2558 lucky Alpina hasn’t been ruined yet
Great video. Your points are balanced and well articulated.
Worked on bmw’s for over 20 years starting in the late 90’s. When the e65 came out I knew things had changed, and not for the good. 😢
Agreed. M now stands for Marketing Division
I thought it meant Money. As in, add on Money package.
This is the nerdiest, most true and relevant video I've seen in a while. Thanks for saying it cuz a lot of us feel this way. It's why the used car market is so out of control. Not just BMW but a lot of other companies are losing their way.
Very few companies are trying... Mitsubishi is dead .... Toyota seems to be trying
I brought it up to a buddy of mine with an e36 and he didn’t side with me for some reason 😂
I’m 23 and all i love is old bmw cars, the new ones are just sad, like you described..
Well stated. The new kidneys remind me of an Edsel! My first was an E34 535i, Which I enjoyed each and every time I got into the car. Unfortunately rust never sleeps in Northeast Ohio. I moved on and purchased three E39's: a manual 528iT for myself and our dog, a 530i for my wife and a 528i for my mother. All have gone away except for the 530i, but will soon give way to the rust issues. I believe that my final purchase will be a 2016 F10 - 535i, as I am now 70 years old. I am always amused when I see E39's advertised for sale as having the ///M package. Sellers will swear that it is an 'M' car simply because it has the '///M' on the steering wheel.....
The "old" DTM was THE BEST Touringcar series ever! The cars, the sound and the drivers were just perfect!
The only thing that ever rivaled it imo was Australian V8 Supercar when it was on Speedvision TV
Speaking of DTM I wish I could get a old Mercedes Cosworth!! The ones that are still around are a train wreck or crazy expensive. Still gotta love um. Im a big group B rally fan but DTM was a realistic option to build.
Alfa 155 DTM *chefs kiss*
@@ferociousmullet9287 the magnum opus of group 5 touring car is and will always be the e30 M3.... Even Klaus Ludwig, who was an AMG driver the whole time admitted it.
@@MiguelGarcia-vj7oobut the 155 DTM is pretty sick u can't lie, it sounded mental, revved to nearly 12000 rpm and was an absolute monster. Sure it only slaughtered the competition since they didn't have the chance to extensively upgrade their cars and Alfa was a brand new contender but to me it's definitely the coolest out of them all
Totally agree with everything you said! - BMW and M have been in the hands of the worst crop of corporate executives and chief designers to ever land in Munich! - it started with the trivialization of the M brand and then embarked on the most horrendous designs that not a sober person can understand.
This is where I love Porsche, they’re so tuned in into their identity.
Absolutely right!! I thought I was the only one thinking this. Have had four and not keen to carry on.
Completly agree! I’ve been saying this for years! The e46/e39 was the last true enthusiast built car in my opinion. BMW is making cars for profit now and not for the true heart of the brand.
Don't forget the z3M and z4M
To me M died with the F cars. M was pushing boundaries right up to the E82 1M and E92 M3 GTS.
I don't think there will be that much profit with this ugly SUV
Agreed, but the 2011 1M and last gen M2 are so nice to drive. I was a detailer at Towne BMW in Buffalo at the time, little did I know that time period would represent the last of the true analog sports cars from BMW. They are however still making rwd performance cars with manual transmissions and flared fenders, which is more than most companies can say.
You all are forgetting that the F82 M4 GTS had factory methanol injection.
Like this style of content, Mike. Video essays on cars definitely are a dime a dozen, but seeing your unique take on the formula is refreshing. Wouldn't mind more of these!
Absolutely
Wow… I can sign under this video 👌 very well presented, thanks ✌️
THANK YOU! Somebody with some social influence NEEDED TO SAY THIS! I grew up dreaming of owning a BMW "when I grow up"... because of the M heritage! Even after I got my first car, and it was a rare 60's muscle car... I still had in the deepest places of my gut... still wanted to own a BMW someday, because of "M".
Flip the calendar through from the 1970's to mid-2010's (after owning 17 cars and motorcycles) and I was looking to be an early adopter into an electric car. I was considering all my options, but when I discovered that BMW had engineered the (albeit odd looking) i3, it got my attention. I'm a lifetime Design engineer, well versed first in electronics design, and second in mechanical design. When I started reading and consuming all of the information about the freedom those engineers were given to explore and develop new ways of building cars... I was convinced. I had grown up learning that German Engineering was some of the best in the world... especially in BMW automobiles.
And so I bought a 2015 i3 BEV Tera, with absolutely every option... except for the "smokers package".
94k miles later, and I found out that the corporation behind the engineers had forgotten about something important... the Customer.
My little 2600 lb RWD ev friend became one of a growing group of i3 owners who found that BMW engineering isn't flawless, when the drive motor bearings failed... and then found out that it's non-repairable.
I heard that several other i3 owners with this exact same problem had been able to get BMW NA to provide Goodwill assistance by providing a replacement motor for free, the owner just had to pay for installation expenses... fair enough.
Except when I approached the BMW NA "I team", I was told "No"... and given the reason of "your car has too many miles on it".
So clearly BMW doesn't expect this car to last much over 94k miles... when in reality - an EV should EASILY surpass the lifetime of ICE vehicles... there's just so few drivetrain parts to go bad.
I'm DIY-ing the repair myself, because BMW estimated it at $7225 for a new electric motor.
The 2018 model year introduced a revised drive motor, with tapered roller bearings... fixing the faulty design of the first several years.
This new BMW Company turned me into a one-and-done BMW owner... too bad too, because I'm now at the peak of my earnings career... and with both our boys soon to be out of the nest, our "disposable income" will be increasing substantially.
(if interested, I have a video on my channel as an example of what bad drive motor bearings sound like...)
Absolutely nailed it. I spent 3 days at the Goodwood Festival of Speed a couple weeks ago and was pleased to see that BMW had an entire courtyard to showcase.
Disappointingly, aside from a 2002, there were no historically significant cars on display. Only their new luxury electric line. Given that the FOS is meant to be a celebration of history and heritage, I was saddened to see BMW disregard it. All other brands there had showings of their old race cars. Everything from F1 to DTM. Yet BMW failed to bring even an M3.
I think we’ve all noticed this new behavior, and you’ve summed it up very concisely.
How cool were those M1s racing around the Monaco street circuit. Down here in New Zealand in the 80s we had the wellington street race that was dominated by the M3s and that's always the image that comes to mind when I think of BMW M.
Especially the JPS M3s and Jimmy Richards at the wheel. They were spectacularly gorgeous
I love your passion and agree with everything you’ve said.
Sincerely,
A Ford guy in a world where the Mustang Mach E exists.
I totally feel the same as you! I live in Germany / Bavaria and drive E30s since 1994. I simply don't understand BMW styling any longer, they lost me. Nevertheless there will always be a BMW in my ownership. My newest one in an E39 as daily driver 😊
You are getting old, that's why.
i think their designs only really really went south last few years, i absolutely loved the designs up until the current generations. I thought last gen 2/3/4/5/8 series' looked great, but current line-up just seem to get worse and worse for every car they announce and its so sad to see. And unlike the E60 i don't think these cars' design will grow on anyone
It's because of the growth of the market in China and India. It's "new money". They still like multi coloured lights and tasteless crap. E39 is the best car, I wish I got one while it was super cheap. I don't even see them for sale in manual any more.
go get your airbag replaced on the e39
@DefenderPuma I can't speak for india, but as a guy who have lived in China for most of my life, I will argue that car enthusiasts in China or even most people who can buy cars in China don't like the directon that BMW is trying to turn into. Most Chinese car fans were attracted into the bimmer communuty when BMW was killing it in WTCC and N24, while being one of the most powerful engine suppliers in F1. They got frustrated by things like AWD everywhere, turbos everywhere, big stupid pig face and lack of racing victories too. Don't put your hatred of something you don't like (in fact it's something a lot of people don't like) onto a group of people or nations that you don't have any idea about. It makes you look ignorant and toxic.
In 1987 I walked past a red shark nosed car. I knew it was a BMW and looking at it with my 10 year old eyes I knew it was special , but the tri coulored M before for the single chrome number six was something I had never seen before. Despite growing up with the Countach as the poster car, I fell in love with the M brand. Other kids drooled over Italian exotics , I found myself feeling that way about an E28 M5 or E30 M3. I’ve owned about a dozen BMW’s ,M3’s and after my final f80 , I felt that the Mbrabd was so diluted and just had strayed so far from its heritage. Your video was the most fact and feeling based video that not only made sense but was so relatable. Thank you for making this. You put in words what so many of us feel.
glad to see people from all gen s speaking about their love for true m cars , it just shows how amazing they are if someone like you and someone like me born 18 years later have the same love for true m cars.
Yeah it appealed to the gentleman driver. Now showing off. Talk softly but carry a big stick.
After the big ass grill ( yes. That grill ) and the digital speedometer
( seeing that rev counter go as you speed up ) something snapt
Excellent arguments! As someone that drove and loved a Z3 for twenty-three years, neither BMW, nor the bloated Z4 were considered when it finally came time to say goodbye to the Z3 and its amazing I-6. I drive a Miata now because it's a well made, driver-focused car--the kinda car BMW used to make.
I became a BMW enthusiast in 1971(at the age of 14) after reading about the Bavaria and its ability to cruise at 120 mph - as well as finding a copy of Turn Your Hymnals to 2002 by David E. Davis. In 1983 I finally bought a 1973 Bavaria and since then I’ve owned 11 other BMWs, including the two I still own. I’ve also been an active member of BMW CCA for over four decades. Last year was the first time I have ever replaced a BMW with a vehicle other than another BMW. I did consider buying a G42 M240i, but after an extended drive I found it to offer little more from an enthusiast standpoint than my F22 M235i. In addition, as one magazine noted, the G42 styling brief appears to be, “make it look like a Lego version of the F22.” An F87 M2 Comp will still turn my head, but not much else in Munich’s current lineup appeals to me.
Yes it's very sad. Thanks for sharing your story.
I really hope BMW manages to eventually change course. I can't see that happening without some staffing switches, and I can't see that happening without pushback from their target audience. I appreciate you putting this together, Mike, you're doing all that you can.
Why would they when they make more money this way?
Without kicking out Meel and the design team leaders, there won't be a change. Talentless hacks. I was wondering when their generation was going to spring up and cause Mishap.
Thats the point, their target audience has shifted. They make their money with big SUVs and Sedans, and the buyers of those come mostly from Asia. Western taste isnt the standard anymore (unfortuately).
@@vonrichthofen5734 Even western taste has massively shifted to big SUVs, not even sedans. look at the sales figures for SUVs and all other classes and you will see what I mean.
@@lbgstzockt8493 EPA exemption on SUVs and light trucks made the market shift after massive advertising from GM and Ford, among others.
I couldn't agree with you more, Mike. I've got older BMWs too, and I look through my rose tinted glasses at the "good old days"...
Spot on. I did a CF wide body E46M driver. Now I don't even have a Bimmer in the fleet. Hard to believe they drank that much of the "Kool Aid".
I 100% agree with everything you said. I was a BMW STEP student in LA in 2012 which in retrospect, was the end of the era of decent BMW vehicles. I was proud of BMW and being an advocate, But now, they’ve gone so far off in the other direction, I don’t know if it can ever come back to what it was. The feeling just isn’t there with the new stuff. I want to like it but it’s so hard. 🍻
Hey Chris, just finished bmw STEP in July and found that there was little talk of real M cars or representation in the shop. I attended the program in Texas and although there was an m440i or m340i aswell as a couple m50i cars there was nothing in the way of m cars and it was a little disappointing to see that the m cars are not even worth showing techs while training because to me it seems like bmw believes the M cars are a rarity anymore with these new tuned up daily drivers with cosmetic touches to enhance their sporty target. Overall I enjoyed the step program but as a fairly new technician to bmw I thought they’d atleast have an m3 for us to look at and learn upon.
yeah, but i think despite that the xm is the coolest suv todate
@@losertown2785 that’s unfortunate. In 2012, we had a pre-production f10 m5, and an e60 M5. Plus, we had an S62, an S65, and a S85 to learn on. This was at the BMW training center in Ontario, CA (Southern California)
I loved this video. You did the M brand an absolute service in a respectful manner. I love the brand, they were all posters on my wall. Absolute dream fuel. I agree with you. Thank you again.
Spot on. Last time I was at the dealership the only cars I was remotely interested in where all in the pre-owned area.
The pre-1999 thing is probably a good idea. The last BMW I had was a 92 325is, and it was a great car to drive. I think I’d like to remember them that way.
Agree with you on most points. Once we got into SUVs with M badges is when it all went wrong. I don't see an issue between drawing a line between the 2 and 4 door M3s and calling the 2 door an M4. The E90/E60 generation was brilliant, even if plagued by reliability issues.
fr, personaly believe that the e90 generation was the last of that great era of bmw.
When they started selling cars with m before it like m340i, it just became a trim.
@@metalmoltres8031 last na generation. and they decided to tack an extra two cylinders on. Good choice.
@@kevinc2332 ye, I'd never call an M-lite an M. Though I can still respect the f10 m550 for being a fun luxury car for the family, though once again, not a true M.
The M1 that crashed at FOS is a true reflection of where the styling is going
did it look better after the crash ?
That XM looks like a gym bro Transformer...that turns into a 1996 Dodge RAM pickup when Megatron calls for battle.
The brutal E12 530MLE, the subtle E28 M5...nostalgia.
Former BMW 135i owner here… The most BMW non-M car even IMO. I’ve never owned an M car, but I can see not only has the M brand been watered down but BMW overall has lost its way. There are some highlights, but it’s just in a sad state overall. Thanks for making this video. I enjoyed it immensely!
I felt the EXACT same way you mentioned in regards to the new CSL. I was absolutely in love, feeling like M had FINALLY remembered what made them great in the first place. Until I saw the price tag and the expected number they were building. Unfortunately just sealed the deal for me that BMW doesnt care about what or who it was, nor the greatness that it's lost in the pursuit of profit.
Love the look of the BMW GTP IMSA car, the front end pays tribute to their history. Colors and Carbon fiber looks incredible. Thanks for the video, like all car MFG's some of the cars they make are awesome some not so much.
9:45 "we have a impressively fast nightclub on 23 inch wheels" - almost spit my drink out. Ouch. Loved my E92 335i and my E46 330ci. I had been feeling your sentiment, but hadn't put it into words. This hit me hard. I don't know that I can look at newer BMWs with any level of respect.
You are right. They seem to slap an M badge on everything nowadays.
Going back to the e46
The younger folks have a hard time distinguishing an M car and M performance cars. For them both were M cars their entire lives. The distinction between a M340i and M3 are far closer to them compared to us growing up admiring E body M3s.
Back in the day people would throw M badges on non M cars and it fooled some people but if you were in the know those people were the lowest of the low. The internet was young and forums could be filled with trolls. So. I guess Bmw is using that same trick to sell more cars.
Ricers with 416d/114d on credit love their m badges
It's a reflection on the quality of people that lead BMW these days. After all, they sign the "oks" on the paper. Talentless hacks that failed upwards. A lot of those in the car industry.
You couldn't even begin to compare them with the giants from before. They would've crushed them under their feet.
Spot on. As a Audi guy, I can say the same. It's realy sad. But as it seems, Toyota is building some interesting cars at the moment.
such a fair, instructive and respectful way to tell the truth
I work for BMW and could not agree more with all your comments. This is a conversation I have had many times with various enthusiasts. Its sad really...
I love this take. Your love of BMW and M almost exactly mirrors my love and feelings for AMG and Mercedes
As a dude who spends his free time fixing up an e23 and lusted after the m cars as a kid I would say you hit the mark. There really isn’t much past the 90s BMWs that I would be interested in owning. At least there are lots of old BMWs out there for us to keep alive so the new generation can see how truly special these cars were and we can all wonder together what the hell BMW is doing.
To me, it’s anything past the e9x series which still had hydraulic sterring
What they are doing is leasing SUVs to Ken and Karens. That's where the money is.
Sad but true...
I agree with you.
Great video 👏.
When covering the early BMW Motorsport origins, please remember the South African E12 530 MLE (Motorsport Limited Edition) from 1976. These were true race cars sold for road use and they were FRIKKIN' AWESOME. Their acceleration and road adhesion were mind-blowing for a regular commuter car of those days. Had lots of fun in one many, many years ago and STILL love it.
Glad someone finally has the guts to say it. Nobody ever talks about how bad the XM is or about how M has declined. It’s about time that someone dedicated a 20 minute video to this deeply, deeply original opinion.
You incredibly accurately conveyed my bewilderment and indignation at what is happening with the brand now and it is very correct that you mention the people guilty of this “m”perversion
100% agree. I got nothing more to say, you are talking just as I am about to if I'm eloquent with words.
“An impressively fast night club on 23 inch wheels.” That’s close to “She’s built like a steak house, but she handles like a bistro.” Excellent writing.
E9x is the last true M3 in my opinion. Last of the hydraulic steering rack, normal aspirated engine, and the only one with a V8.
I'll never sell my E92. Modern BMW has lost its class.
Have a great day, Friend. I hope it's a great one.
I regret to say I would fail to change your mind on this topic…because you are 100% correct
2:30 Driscoll and team AutoTechnic. One of the most passionate individuals I’ve ever met with regard to the brand, and supposedly quite fast around Lime Rock in his old alpine E30 M3. Also one of the nicest humans you could ever meet. Cheers to all the amazing people in the BMW community!
You’re 100% right. A lot of the industry has just lost its way. And part of that is just Motorsports isn’t what it used to be, so they all cater to what the bigger crowd wants. It just sucks to see so many of the rad cars get priced to high and unreasonable amounts, or in the case like newer Type Rs, they care get hit with stupid markup and are unavailable to people unless they want to pay that craptastic markup. Which only pushes dealers and enthusiasts farther away from each other.
@user-nx7io1ns7pamong us astronaut
A lot of it has to do with EU emission laws and the like. But the chassis design is their fault
They are taking the M and making it apply to luxury, not performance. I am no marketing expert but I would rather they adopt a new model and tout that as their luxury flagship. Your spot on about Porsche, they have been doing and doing it well. I hope BMW takes a hard look at has some folks that have the stones to make a direction change. Great video Mike.
There was a luxury trim. It just faded into obscurity. Look up the E24 L6, and the E32 L7. Most people in the BMW world have totally forgotten about that. The L6 was a 635CSi withevery luxury option. Same for the L7. Every lux box ticked.
I could not agreed more! I feel you Friend! We are a Groupe of M Drivers from Germany and i drive M for more than 10 years (M560->M6GC->M6GC) and M lost me/us completely! Best regards!
I really appreciate the depth and work it took to make this episode. I watched it up to 6:28 then some kind of strange abomination popped up, I threw up in my mouth and had to stop.
I was at Goodwood last year and watched M celebrate their 50th anniversary. The once provocative , unpredictable brand now became safe and predictable. They gathered a bunch of old cars and drivers, pat themselves in the back for their past success. No indication or excitement about where they are going in the future. The audacity to park the new M4 CSL next to the E46 M3 CSL. A safe marketing exercise next to a car that flirted with the edge of regulations to create a hardcore ultimate driving machine.