Kingdom Hearts 3 - What Mechanics Should Change?
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- čas přidán 4. 08. 2024
- Not enough people point out the flaws of the KH handhelds mechanics. So here I discuss the troubling mechanic changes to the series that the Osaka Team at Square has been doing with KH games as of late that really shouldn't be done in KH3. These are pretty basic game design mechanics for combat systems that are important to making a game fun and diverse.
This is probably my last KH3 vid for a while, I don't have much else I want to talk about for hopes in KH3. Instead, expect more 2FM mechanic vids most likely.
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www.bizkit.me
Playing as Aqua in a nutshell: HM. HEH. HM. HEH. HM. HEH. HM. HEH.
That's her hottest song on her mix tape
CJAdams97 you always make my fucking day ^^
***** ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Playing as Terra in a nutshell: WAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHHHH!
+Ragnamune LMAOOO
"It would be a shame if, say, attraction flow attacks were spammable and ridiculous strong." oof
This is the worst timeline.
They got nerfed in KH3 and you have better options in different situations overall.
@@blueflare3299 still they are ridiculous strong and it ruins the atmosphere of the fights... really KH2 was good enough with reaction commands, they weren't spammable and they only took down a small amount of HP from the bosses (apart from xenmas and his "finish" command), honestly people hate those moves in KH3 because they looks like disneyland marketing and feel really out of place...
@@naoaquieopatrickpatrick8565 I agree, that's why I still don't use them. Sora already got buffed speed and control wise, and the game is more fun without them.
@@naoaquieopatrickpatrick8565 attraction rides are fun as shit tho
2:08
Ummmm....I got some bad news for you.
Honestly thought their pretty much the worst option over links, keyblade forms, and grand magic
You can't spam attractions
@@dink7458 no but they come up way more often and get in the way unfortunately
How is that bad news? Bizkit said that atraction flow might be spammy and OP, while in reality it's completely useless and are better off not using it
I just never used thwm that much.
Let's also not forget about actually memorable and useful keyblades. Ever since KH 2 the keyblades have been crap in every sense from design to usefulness. And trades up the rather smart system KH 2 had where there were no truly "useless" Keyblades to just trade up for whatever has the best magic and physical damage.
I agree. Say "Decisive Pumpkin" and the heads of every KH fan will turn. Say "Rainfall" and no one will move a muscle.
***** Hell same goes for Oblivion and Oathkeeper. They're all classic. But pssshhh naw you know what's the best keyblade ever? Fairy Stars. Cuz who doesn't love a keyblade that looks more like candy~?
bubbajoe117 LOL Fairy Stars
***** XD
bubbajoe117 I can agree with the early-midgame keyblades being replaceable stat sticks. Even if KH2 had the same kind of problems with some Keyblades being reemplacable because of mediocre abilities. But the BBS endgame keyblades had all uses, maybe not as much as the KH2 ones, but then again they had to make keyblades for 3 characters instead of one.
But not memorable? Ends of the Earth, Lost Memory, Brightcrest, Void Gear, No Name, Eraqus's Keyblade, MX's Keyblade... there are memorable keyblades.
I think the Deck Command system should just go.
No
Yes
@@DarkThanatos18 how dare you reply.to your comment you made 4 years ago
@Anime and Gaming nerd How dare you reply to my comment i made 4 years ago.
Yes
Square enix better freaking take notes from you
+Icarus975 Yeah KH3 is a very important game to SE so i hope they make it as great as possible.
yeah hes a genius
it's comments like these that make me wonder how regular fans who don't even program games know more about the mechanics and what should be done right compared to the developers themselves.
mostly it's because developers rarely playtest their own games extensively so they do not see what design choices look like from a players point of view.
Icarus975 only if he sent them this video......
I wish they do what they did in 358/2 with keyblades again. How every keyblade had different combos and stuff. Made every weapon feel unique.
KH3 seems to have something similar to that with each Keyblade having a unique transformation.
Well what do you think now? Hope you're glad
@@dreadking6142 lol
My god I hated how eraqus was like a tank. He did not stagger one bit
Fun fact: No Heart has a stagger animation and can stagger, it is really fucking rare but he does do it
I could handle it from Eraqus. Eraqus wouldn’t stagger but he had windups when he broke out of combos and would leave time to heal after.
Better than fckn Vanitas: little punk who will teleport with no warning at absolute random with no time to counter unless you dodged away before he teleported. And on Lingering Vanitas, without Second Chance, that teleport one-shots you. :)
Punk bitch.
@@rocklobster4942 Use Healing Strike, it staggers 90% of the bosses in the game, especially in the MIrage Arena. Yes, even Iron Imprisoner 3 and 4 and No Heart.
It feels great to come back to this video and no longer have to worry about revenge value and staggering thanks to 0.2
As someone who hasn't played 0.2 this pleases me greatly. Can't wait to get this game next month.
it feels weird coming back to this video in spite of how absolutely broken magic is in KH3
Sarcastic?
Also what Is more broken Grand magic or Sora's being copable to link full combos with aerial step?
@@StickmanSham yes.
Stickman Sham it feels weird to come back to this comment in spite of knowing how absolutely broken links are in KH3
You predicted exactly how attraction flows work in KH3. holy-
The easy way to fix BBS and DDD's command systems is to force players to having only one of each command in the game, that way you'll be forced to actually mix and match commands in your deck for tactical play instead of making it a spam fest since you'll have to wait a fair amount of time for each command to be reusable. Their mistake was that: giving players the freedom to fill their command decks with as many copies of the same commands as they wanted.
Please, for the love of God, make party members actually useful in boss fights. I hate how the writing in the entirety of the Kingdom Hearts series goes on and on about the power of friendship and teamwork, when in gameplay its all about Sora and who cares if Goofy is knocked around silly for the entire fight while Donald does no damage with his constant Thunder spells. Sadly, the trailers for KH3 don't seem to signal a change in this... We haven't even gotten a good shot of Woody performing an attack for Christ's sake :(
You forgot about Donald's Duck Flare limit,
the most useful limit in boss fights.
you got your wish... now your teammates can carry you through battles and they are VERY overpowered...
@@naoaquieopatrickpatrick8565 no they aren’t yea, they can do SOME damage but its basically chip damage compared to what sora can do
@@naoaquieopatrickpatrick8565 no.
Lol Donald is a beast in 1 and 2, it's your fault if you have issues with him. Try customising his abilities and AI and see the difference
I have one major gripe: there should be an option to disable certain command styles from activating. Lookin' squarely at Spellweaver and Skyclimber, mostly, but even so.
0.2 had a pretty good solution to that, building up similarly to how you filled the Command Gauge in BBS, but instead of automatically triggering the Command style, giving you the option to do so or not.
What I primarily want to see in KH3 is the bosses being able to be staggered, with revenge value, but their counters alternating. KH2FM was incredibly easy difficulty-wise because you could loop a revenge value counter. If they were to add different counters, it would remove the problem of boss loops, like how data Axel can just be Burst Edge'd every single time he counters when the fire ring is up.
Xaddgx Absol Brasse That's a cool idea. Just FYI though, many bosses in KH2FM cannot have their revenge-counters looped.
bluroguevyse08
Terra can be looped unless you get a rare bike cycle on the A.I, and he's supposed to be the hardest boss in the entire game. Roxas can be looped in both his aerial and ground counter, and he's supposed to be a challenging and rather emotional fight. It just takes away from the game, even if it doesn't apply to all of the bosses.
Xaddgx Absol Brasse What you say is true. Finding those loops is pretty difficult to do though, and without those loops those bosses are much, much, much harder. Bosses whose revenge values can't be looped (off the top of my head): Xemnas 1, Xigbar, Xaldin, Vexen, Lexaeus, Zexion, Demyx. And there are probably other non-optional bosses too.
I think various counter attacks and a random revenge value could fix that
Guys random revenge and changing counters doesn't encourage learning the fight. The less rng the better.... Just make counters hard to dodge like lingering wills desperation attack.....but 2fm on the hardest settings lv1 is insanely hard anyways. How many deaths on your first run beating everything
I love BBS to death and its easily my favorite KH game for many reasons, but i agree with all you said about its combat system. Its almost like most of the bosses were designed to force the player to abuse of the dodge and command spamming. And i know i know "why don't you just dont use them?" well i rather not handicap myself
That’s just silly logic. A video game isn’t about doing everything as fast and as best as possible. It’s literally solely about having fun. If you choose to spam abilities, I mean that’s really on you and that is absolutely a style to play in. But I had so much fun NOT doing that and mixing and matching to make incredibly strong builds without the need to spam anything…. And I actually beat the games faster than projected.
@@TheSCPStudio that’s just silly logic. If a video game is solely about having fun, and he doesn’t think imposing self handicaps is fun, then what is he supposed to do? “Well do it anyway becuase I had fun” ?. I recently played through KH3 again since the pro codes were introduced and removed a lot of the extra fluff like attractions, and while I did indeed find it more fun, KH3 isn’t any better of a game for it. Every single fight I had that was more struggling than my original play through was fun, but I also ended up disliking the fight over all more “if I had to cancel all of these features just to make this fight enjoyable, then how many fights are ruined by adding these features?” It makes the flaws of the game even more apparent.
I’m not saying you can’t enjoy handicapping yourself, but to impose on someone else that it’s ‘silly logic’ by not liking that is fundamentally flawed, not everyone enjoys a level 1 playthrough of the game, are you going to say it’s silly logic to anyone that doesn’t want to play a level 1 run through the game, even if the game isn’t meant to be played like that? You can have fun in anyway you like in a game, just don’t bash other people for not finding that same enjoyment (especially when you complain about games not being about beating a game as best or fast as possible, but speed running is a thing and a lot of people have fun with that)
@@TheSCPStudio What was your projection?
Damn this has aged pretty well
Sort of? Eh.
4:13
Osaka Team: "Don't think twice..."
I guess Vanitas can be considered a test of reflexes and reactions over learning the battle.
To this day the osaka team still has no idea how to make bosses stagger properly...even with the remind dlc
What you mean? They nailed it with the ReMind DLC.
@@Bizkit047 no they havent. Let me explain:
The main problem with KH3s remind bosses consist of 2 smaller problems.
Problem 1: the overuse of super armor.
Every move of ANY boss has their super armor stretched out way beyond the attack-frames.
Xemnas is a good example. Even tho he has openings,there are instances where his attack-hitbox has already ended,but because he is still in his attack-pose he wont stagger.
Another good example is yozora when he tries to steal your weapon and is exposed for like 2 seconds/half a combo(I almost fully combod him when he was fully exposed and he didnt even flinch).
In KH1 and KH2 the super armor ended when the attack-frames ended. Which allowed for more dynamic battles and you didnt have to reevaluate your decisions because when the enemy is fully exposed or fatigued,it makes sense to attack him of course.
Which brings me to problem #2:
The visual cues and the game mechanics contradict each other.
Lets say ypu're fighting terra-xehanort(TX for short) and he does his triple-ars arcanum attack.
You know how he does this devastating finisher at the end right?
Well the problem is not the finisher,the problem is how the game wants you to react to that finisher.
Because what the game wants you to do is that it wants you to block the last ars arcanum and counterattack DURING TXs final blow.
Why is that contradicting the visual presentation of the game? Because TX charges his attack and glows red.
When the enemy glows red you know right off the bat that its unblockable. And when an enemy is charging an attack you know that he usually has super armor equipped. Thats how KH1 and KH2 had it and every well-done action game from god of war to dmc.
Its a basic fundamental of action-games.
When enemies charge,they get super armor and the best way to avoid that is to either dodge,take cover or in the case of sekiro you should parry.
However,KH3 does not want you to do any of this. KH3 wants you to attack TX when TX is literally at the height of his power.
This doesnt make sense because all the visual cues tell you to gtfo of the area.
What ends up happening is that you'll encounter fights where you cant really understand the rules of the game.
Sometimes red-glowing attacks are counterable. But often times they're not.
Sometimes the enemies basic combo can be countered. But often times not.
Sometimes the enemy will let you hit him when they're fatigues but more often they will not.
How am I supposed to develop strategies when the game flips the rules every single fight?
Instead of being an action-rpg,the game just becomes an action game...and not the good kind like dmc5 or spiderman. Because in those games the visual cues and the game mechanic/super armor actually go hand in hand.
Again its not even just me saying that to complain,its an actual fundamental design that is inherited by every good action-game.
And I knoe exactly what they thought when they were designing this games dlc bosses. They were like "hey we dont have enough time to optimize the fights to be more responsive and reasonable,lets just give each animation a bool for super armor,the players will figure out how to beat them".
I wanna strategize in an action-environment but KH3 is nothing but pure memorization.
There are many instances where you have to approach the enemy the exact same time(keyword: airstep) so every fight feels kinda samey with some cheap death-shots at you.
Compare for example the TX fight with roxas' fight in KH2. When you fight roxas and he does the swirl attack at the very beginning,and ypu dodge that,then the game rewards you for correctly avoiding that attack. And roxas' super armor ended right when the swirl attack dissappeared. And since roxas isnt charging for anything and is physically exposed to the player,thats the visual cue that tells you "its now or never"(meaning its time to attack) and he will stagger.
Since we cant look into how the fights are scripted we heavily rely on visual hints.
Again,kh2 rewarded your sharp eye with a consistent rule that can be applied to other bosses as well.
Meanwhile KH3s main way to beat bosses is through trial and error. Which is never a good strategy.
Of course there are more reasons like teleportation overuse,low weapon variety,enemies yeeting off-stage and enemies shamelessly camping you out,but if I had to choose the worst problem its this.
Great video. I really hope they don't give bosses super armor where they don't stagger when you're hitting them that is very annoying in bbs
This pretty much confirms my stance that people who like bbs' combat system over kh2fm suck at playing action rpgs. After playing kh2fm every other combat system in the series pales in comparison. Heck even the keyblades were balanced where even the kingdomkey can have some viable use end game. Even critical mode is the most balanced in kh2fm out of any other. It is the only one where zero exp did not have any special attributes and doing a level 1 was most viable without having to resort to one trick strategies.
It's almost as if people have preferences on what combat system they prefer. Oh how dare they
yeah and people who like broken combat systems are dumb
Kh2 is more of a Hack and Slash
Big Guy people who can't handle other people enjoying things are pathetic
It doesn't mean that at all you're just being sensitive
Dude, attractions ended up being op and super spammable since they give you so many
Yeah, it was a bummer.
Kinda surprised that you didn’t reference KH1 in the ‘Fun Movement’ section. Because while BBS was unfun, it was still a huge improvement over the sluggish heavy walk cycle, jumps, and roll of Sora in KH1.
PS: This vidéo sounds a lot like you want a KH game designed by FromSoftware, who have masterfully balanced I-Frames in their dodges, lag after their dodges so they can’t be spammed, having meta that allows the player to feel powerful, but leaving much of it for the endgame where the player has fought hard and long to earn ultimate power.
And I’m not knocking that.
Because a KH game with the speed and complexity of Sekiro sounds epic
If they ever make Eraqus playable in any capacity he should play like Sekiro.
"KH2 was just a button masher"
So were BBS and DDD. I don't understand how spamming dodge roll and thunder surge/balloon are much better. If you honestly believe that KH2 was just a button masher, than you make it abundantly clear that all you do is play on beginner mode and don't even dare to try critical mode. KH2 has a great revenge value system that makes sure you don't button mash. I mean, try button mashing on Lingering Will and see how it works out for you.
99% of American players didn't have a chance to play final mix and therefore never got access to critical and lingering will so of course they all say that. I still haven't played final mix even though i've been a fan of the series since the mid-2000s and am waiting for it to come on ps4.
i don't care much for challenge in video games so i usually don't touch higher difficulties, no point in making annoying fights more annoying.
Zakku On the handhelds that holds true this guy probably tried those and has no idea about 2fm's critical and how it changes things rather than making everything take forever
@@ma_junia I've never tried Critical Mode simply because I've noticed in CZcams boss battle videos that almost every hit takes you down to 1 HP. It doesn't seem very fun, but I still want a challenge so I always play on Proud Mode. Do you mind explaining why people love Critical Mode so much?
@@thefakejoey8549 Critical Mode basically gives you the perfect challenge. You die quickly yes, but most of the time you will die because you were careless or just spamming, even on Critical Mode most players won't have a lot of issues going through the main story except maybe fights like Roxas. It doesn't make you deal less damage in one way it makes you even stronger than you are on the other diffs because it gives you more abilities at the start and more points to equip those. Personally I think people (including myself) enjoy Crit mode so much is because it makes you think about the encounter that you are about to have, by halving you HP and making the enemies deal more damage without making Sora weaker makes for some really interesting gameplay with the perfect amount of challenge. Sure getting to 1hp after every hit maybe doesn't look like fun but in Kh2 atleast it's your fault. Also overcoming the post story content in form of the 13 Data battles and Lingering Will is very satisfying. I hope I could help you a bit
As someone who had played BbS and liked DDD, I wholeheartedly agree with this analysis.
I kinda wanna see an in-depth video of what you think of Flowmotion as a game mechanic
This video sums up just about everything I want from KH3 gameplay wise.
DDD's flowmotion system is easily one of my favorite gameplay mechanics, at least for movement. Being able to fly around maps like a damn super human was so much fun! In combat, accidentally triggering flowmotion when you're trying to dodge roll is such a massive pain in the ass, so hopefully they take your advice and make it less easy to trigger accidentally.
Dodge Roll is super nerfed in 3D compared to BBS as well as it's no longer "spam 4 infinite I-frames": until you get Slide Roll/Dark Roll/Doubleflight, you're better off Leaf Bracer-ing the hit instead.
Unlocking THAT in 3D is a pain though.
That awkward moment you see that they had a KH3 Trailer since 3 years ago........
Remove the attractions. Completely.
They should bring back the Keyblade mechanics that were introduced in Re: Coded
Instead of boosting strength and magic, they should attach multiple abilities; some unique to that specific Keyblade and it keeps every Keyblade useful in some way! I just feel that certain mechanics in Re: Coded are actually pretty interesting and if expanded upon it can help improve some things, but since it's often overlooked due to it's story no one looks twice at it.
I'm a month late, but I agree on that. Having keyblades with unique abilities was awesome.
Well they are doing that I guess with keyblade transformations.
keyblades had always unique abilities
Arcane Not in KH1, 358/2 Days, DDD, BBS, or, if my knowledge is correct, Chi. Unless you count Stat boosts as "abilities" or the lore-ish abilities like being able to lock/unlock any lock.
Trey Isham They had in kh1, they had in kh2
I think I remember that in one interview or another, Tetsuya himself said that the handheld/side games is where they test various new combat ideas and that the main games will have the traditional KH combat system (with a few tweaks, like Attraction Flow for example). Although, I can't remember where I heard it from...
Oh my god this is the video we needed but never heard.
The algorithm truly is a screwball.
Good video man. You gave him a good analysis on the changes you'd like to make. I hope Nomura takes into consideration the stuff you said when making KH3 and does not focus too much on making the game flashy and cool.
Great video man. I wish other KH youtubers had the kh knowledge you have
Thanks so much for making this video! I agree with everything you've said. It infuriates me when people mindlessly praise the handheld games and dismiss KHI as slow and boring, and KHII as "mash X to win", when they both had very fun and rewarding combat systems. I was disappointed in 3D, and I do hope that KHIII borrows more from the PS2 games than the handhelds.
Out of curiosity, what's your opinion on the combat in Days and coded?
NinetyNineNo I'm not sure if Bizkit took the chance to fully play 358/2 Days or Re:coded as he really never mentions it.
Anyway, yes, the gameplay in KHI and KHII was very good. It's much better and more balanced than Birth by Sleep and Dream Drop Distance.
As objectively as possible, the combat in 358/2 Days isn't as good as KHI and KHII. This is due to some major flaws. One of them, which was an issue with KHI as well, was that attack magic wasn't very reliable. in 358/2 Days, you would have to replace stat increases, equipment, or items in favor of magic. In actual combat, magic is casted slower than any other KH game to date, leaving you wide open to attacks, and it's likely you're not at your strongest because you stocked up on a lot of magics. Because of this, you're left mostly to your attack command, so you press "A" most of the time, which is repetitive, just like the game design itself where you have to go mission to mission doing the same crap. 358 is perhaps the most repetitive game in the series. Changing your weapons also led to changing your attack pattern, but with no option to free-roam, weapon swapping led to a lot of trial-and-error, and this is not taking into account the multiplayer, where you can pick any character you want. Combos are adjusted for every character by switching out one weapon. On the plus side, the game has good mobility. Dodge Roll, Air Slide, and Glide feel fast, fluid, and reliable, while never feeling cheap or overpowered, which is good because 358 has some of the most annoying bosses in the series. The only other issue is that the ability to block feels less important because some fights require you to fly or that dodging is the better option, and it normally is the better option. Still, it's not completely left out, as there are useful buffs like Round Block, but there's no proper ability to counterattack, like KHI and KHII did. Ultimately, save for a few bosses, the battles are generally challenging, but in a fair way. Some bosses have super armor, but it's nowhere amplified like BBS and 3D.
Re:coded is very overlooked, since it was released only a few months after BBS, and that's unfortunate because the combat is actually very good. It's the combat BBS should've been. Because you can adjust your growth to how you want, that can narrow your choice of commands on the command deck, and the commands themselves are almost equally reliable in fights and generally feel balanced and no command outclasses the other commands in every way, but even better is that some of the commands have low cooldown lag, so you can chain multiple commands to create one big combo, which requires patience and experimentation. Normal combos are generally straightforward, but some Keyblades change your combo behavior and that's fine because it's only boiled down to speed, strength, or a balance between the two. What's also fun while combo attacking are overclocks, which grant a buff depending on how many times you hit an enemy, and a finishing move that follows up, giving you a small invincibility timeframe, unlike BBS's Shotlocks where you're invincible the whole time the Shotlock is executed. This is fantastic motivation to level up your Keyblade. Re:coded has reliable dodging and blocking, but the blocking is only really needed in specific fights. Speaking of fights, battles against Riku and Roxas have a hidden Revenge Value-like meter, so you can actually study the fight. While the Revenge Value in Re:coded is not as complete as KHII, it's better than super armor. Re:coded easily has the best combat system of any portable entry. While it doesn't reach KHI and KHII, it's kinda up there.
what i like about recoded besides the good combat is that they tried to have a mixed stance on the prior games.it has plattforming like kh1,there are some small elements from kh2,rikus moveset is a fixed version in comparison to days riku and the fightingstyle the player uses is custom to their equipment while it having the commanddeck of bbs and having castle oblivion from com as a world.its basicly a giant loveletter to the entire series,but it is mostly viewed as a cheap knockoff of kh1 ;-;
I've honestly never been more disappointed in a game that I have been in KHDDD.
Seriously. It was so easy to break the game difficulty, and too short. Not even ReCoM (which I loathe for the battle system), or Days made me this bored.
At least flowmotion is fun.
All of the KH games are easy. It’s almost cringe worthy that people actually argue over this type of shit. Especially when it’s a fucking RPG game and can be played In so many different styles.
Also, DDD was one of the best KH games. Especially after the port. Companions are useful for once, the maps aren’t ass to traverse and combat can be approached so many different ways.
This may be an old video, but flowmotion was actually very bad for the level design of KH3D, exploration was thrown out the window, You could skip entire level segments and certain boss fights were made incredibly easy by simply being able to use flowmotion to dodge most attacks. Flowmotion would be fine if it was limited, say if they gave You a flowmotion bar, so when You use say one input, part of the bar goes down, then the bar is recovered while fighting, on top of that, there should be a flowmotion height limit that is implemented. The bar would keep areas from just outright being flown through and the height limit would allow the developers to force the players through certain parts of the level, say up a hill and around to get up a cliff-side rather than just continuously jump up it.
All in all, while 3D's flowmotion could be fun, it broke the games pacing and the system should be severely nerfed for KH3. If they used a bar system then maybe throughout the game You could increase it, leading to it eventually being very useful for getting through bigger worlds, but it shouldn't be the same as 3D right from the get go and it shouldn't be as OP for movement.
Ahh, I get it. You’re mad at a how a mechanic COULD be used. Kind of silly to be honest, considering you have the choice to play how you want. Also silly considering it’s a video game meant for fun and you’re basically trying to dictate what is defined as fun.
@@TheSCPStudio you are dictating what is fun right now
@@welfareacquirer2046 Yeah wtf. 😂
Attraction Flow are mega powerful. I didn’t use it often during my first play through
Great video, Biz. Love these scripted ones, very well spoken with great video editing.
Do you plan on doing a video about the combo system development (or devolution)?
So... @Bizkit047 Having been speedrunning this now... What are your thoughts on the system they went with?
+Bizkit047 I have been trying to pinpoint what made the handhelds less interesting and fluid and hit it right on the nail. Regarding combos, I would like to know how you feel about command styles in bbs, and Riku's dream eater fusions in 3d. I personally found command styles rewarding( although practically unusable on later bosses).
A few questions. First, how were the dodge mechanics in 3D? Between flow motion and other movement, I barely remember the dodge moves. Second, what's your stance on multiple playable characters? Also, any particular spells, abilities, or summons you would like to see return?
In DDD, the dodges weren't like aqua and ven's, they were like Terra's, which is good, but if you make dodges like that in a game with BBS's boss design, then it still doesn't make it good design.
instead of getting one broken magic spell, now they're all equally overpowered!!
I agree 100 percent with everything you said in this video. All of these points cannot be stressed enough and I really hope SE takes the time to avoid the issues you mentioned.
Good vid Biz! ^^
Could you make an analysis of the new 0.2 gameplay we got at e3?
Great, in depth analysis! I agree with most, if not every point you brought up, and even said some things that I'm sure most people (including myself) haven't even thought of.
There's also dodging, blocking, and countering in 358/2 Days.
My problem with Kingdom Hearts 2 is that most of the enemies in the game, with the exception of a few bosses, never gave me a reason to rely on anything other than button combos. If I can get through the game perfectly fine without using magic or summons, then why use them?
Kingdom Hearts 3 should encourage the player to use all the tools provided to him by enemy variety, showing small clips that demonstrate a use of that spell or summon, incorporating more intelligent A.I. or something else. The point is to encourage the player to learn the game instead of just relying on the strategy that's the most effective that doesn't require much skill to use.
KH3 definitely should do something to encourage you to use your other abilities. In KH2, you're only going to be using most of your tools by doing a Lv1 run. Even on Critical, you can get away with just using Attack and healing. It's just that this time, you have to actually learn the boss's patterns or you might get killed.
While Critical can still be fun, and a Lv1 run is incredibly thrilling, the fact that I had to handicap myself to such an extent in order to have fun is a pretty big problem. Not everyone is going to play on the highest difficulty, which is fine, but some people are going to expect for the standard difficulty of the game to be engaging at the very least, which was not the case for me. Just as you said, why should you use all of your tools that have a cost when you can get through the game without them just fine? Like with Drives and Limits, I classified them as tools I should save for when I'm in trouble, but those situations never happened.
Dude I perfectly agree with you on that regard. Each KH game has its problem with their mechanics. And this is gonna be long.
KH1's problem was the fact that even on the regular difficulty (not proud), you take way too much damage, and you also had the chance of taking a critical hit (which sucks, well...I believe you can get hit with a critical hit) and the fact that every spell was OP. pick the staff route and you pretty much just use all spells.
KH [RE] COM's biggest problem is that while the card aspect is unique and cool and could call for some serious action if you strategize well, the card aspect felt inmpractical. Especially when you have to read in on every keyblade to see which keyblade card worked best and when (strike, thrust, or finisher)
KH2's problem is basically like you guys said, the fact that the game doesnt encourage you to use most of the tools you're given. Another problem is the spells, in particular, reflect. Reflect is clearly the best spell in the game, and honestly, it gives me no reason to truly use the other spells. Reflera may as well be the "I win the game" spell, and reflega is just literally rubbing it into the enemies faces. I mean seriously, after getting reflera and/or reflega, the other spells because truly useless to me. Fire, I only use for vexen, otherwise...nope. Blizzard, while good in the beginning and has its uses, I truly use IF I go the full mystic route. Thunder, only use for a finsher, Cure is fine enough, and magnet, I rarely use at all. Reflect is clearly the game breaker, and it truly shows. The summons, like in KH1, are really useless to me. I rarely use them, and its because it gives me no incentive to. Same with Limits. After disney castle, I only use donald's limits because its the only limit thats good, and even then, I use it during emergencies. Drive forms...well....I only use them during the first few worlds in the game. When I reach lv 35, I only use them to level up growth abilities, otherwise, I never use them, because Im simply just too powerful for it. To simply put, the game just doesnt encourage players to use other methods to battle. Why use guard and dodge roll (for example) when reflect does more and better?
KHBBS's main problem (other than the vanitas bosses and MF) is the sheer fact that a simple combo can kill you instantly. Admittedly, while BBS is my favorite KH game and I prefer it over 1 and 2, that mishap still bothers me. Those are really my only real gripes with the game.
358/2 Days' problem is the mechanics made the game overall monotonous. When I play using a limited amount of magic and just attacking, the game just makes me go on autopilot. when a game makes me go on autopilot and is monotonous, the game gets bad, real fast.
Recoded's problem is while the command deck isnt as OP as BBS's, truth be told for me, I rarely used to command deck. The game just didnt give me a reason to truly use it other than for curing and physical attack commands. Otherwise, I just attacked using the regular attack buttons.
Havent played DDD so I cant say anything about that.
also another problem with KH2 is the inconsistency with the difficulty. Play 2FM on any difficulty other than critical and notice how slow and boring it is. its ridiculous
Taking too much damage in KH1? Excluding Proud Mode, I don't remember that happening until Hollow Bastion, and you have Aero, regardless. As much as I love spamming magic, I will admit that it's broken, especially with the Stop+Gravity combo. And no, enemies don't have critical hits, but they do have attacks that are stronger than others(i.e, a Soldier's dive kick is stronger than it's scratch)
I haven't played CoM in a while, but I remember enjoying it more because I had to think about what I wanted to do. I'm the kind of guy that prefers thinking things through and doing a fair amount of preparing, which worked well with CoM. Although I may need to play it again to get a more solid opinion.(and I've only played Re:CoM)
With KH2, I don't know if I'd call Reflect a game-breaker. It's definitely imbalanced, as Bizkit said in this video, but I find Magnet, Trinity Limit and Summons to be just as useful depending on the situation. Heck, Stitch makes Reflect even stronger since he restores your MP. Reflect spam does turn KH2 into a waiting game, and it should cost at least 20 MP if it's going to be that strong. I do agree that Fire/Blizzard become too situational late-game, but I still use Thunder quite a bit, mainly for Magnet+Thunder.
As for KH2's difficulty along with Critical Mode, I don't have evidence for this, but I think Critical Mode in 2FM was made in response to criticisms of KH2 being too easy, even on Proud Mode.
I haven't played BBS on any difficulty other than Standard(still need to replay it), so maybe it just gets a lot more intense on Critical, but it sounds like you didn't have Second Chance/Once More. Enemies early on shouldn't kill you that easily.
I haven't played Re:Coded and I've only scratched DDD, so I can't say anything on that. I don't have many memories of Days's battle mechanics, either, but I don't remember disliking it.
Ok. thanks. I thought they did since ciriticals existed in KH1.
For COM, i personally found the GBA version more fun than Re:COM, but I still kinda found the card system a bit impractical because of the info about the strikes, thrusts, and finisher strikes.
For KH2, with the argument of magnet and thunder, not many casual players will know that a magnet will make you go into a combo finsher and you can push into thunder that way. Even me knowing that, that is something I SELDOM go into, because of the fact that the same ol' 1,2 press X to attack method still works even with a group of enemies.
For BBS, Even with second chance and once more, that still wouldn't save you. Even in the first set of worlds when you dont have it, the enemies can group around you and attack all at once which can kill you instantly. Its not like KH2 where the more hits you take from a combo, the less damage you take with each consecutive hit. It's the same consistent damage (for example, if each combo attack did like 8 damage per hit, it isnt like KH2 where it would do like 8, 6, 4, 2, 1 damage, it will simply do 8 damage each hit). As a result, the attacks will kill you instantly. Even with second chance and once more in the later worlds, the damage you take would still be really high and will send you to 1hp instantly (take LS Vanitas and MF for example. those 2 bosses will LITERALLY kill you instantly without SC/OM on.)
Re:Coded is not with in the damage you take, but rather the damage you dish out.
For DDD, I have no thought since I haven't played it so I ask you or anyone else to deal me in with this. I really dont have any thought about playing it until I my money is right to get it. Even at a discount....I still need to think about it
For flowmotion
What if they made flowmotion weaker but on startup you cannot stagger. you still take damage but it doesnt end your flow. what do you guys think?
Great vid biz and some great points too.
which font you use?
I completely agree. I hope the Osaka team learned a lot from doing the remastered originals as well as having a few Tokyo staff on the team
Tokyo team makes FF15, FF13 so I don't think they good in combat
phuc quang And they also made KH1 and 2, so...
What attack in KH2FM started with Circle? like the example at 8:30. Did he switch the controls around? or is it a skill you learn at later levels? bc circle in my game equals jump. (I am just really exploring the complexity and depth of the KH series now because I am older and understand mechanics, as opposed to playing through this game as a 12 year old. Sorry for any inexperience showing)
+NibbleSnarph In Japan, O is often used for Confirm/Attack instead of X.
Thank you!
I had a question. Did dodge in DDD has i-frame like BBS ?
Yes.
How does 0.2 stack up to the handhelds? That will probably be a good guess as to how kh3 will do things
Basically take the formula from KH2 FM and expand upon it with the additions of attraction attacks and flowmotion and balance the difficulty of the enemies accordingly. If Square is smart, they will listen to this. KH2 FM is hands down the most fun KH game to play with the most replay value. I still play it today vs the other games! Thanks bizkit you know the importance of good game mechanics.
Lots of really good points here Biz. I hope the game is good and is relatable to KH2 FM. KH2 FM had a lot of good options for fighting. My personal favorite in the series.
Any chance for a vid that explains D Links in BBS?
+Zero Ace they are self explanatory for the most part tbh, you see what skills/spells they have than try to make use out of them and lv them for their abilities like mickey's double exp ability
Extremely valid points
My personal change is the return of Keyblade specific abilities, it gave Keyblades more of a purpose besides a simple stat boost.
is it weird that i never used balloon in the actual game? only in the 3DS demo?
i honestly thought balloon looked pretty dumb.
I just remembered the fact that the original BBS on the psp had a multiplayer mode. If we were to judge the command deck system based within a competitive multiplayer setting them it might be possible to find redemption for it.
The command deck system for BBS can be saved if that were the case, but everything else will still suck.
aaaaaaaaand attractions are very strong in kh3 LOL. This is a great video
Kh2 is deeper yeah, I don't think anyone can really dispute that. I personally had more fun with BBS, blowing stuff away with shotlocks and op commands is a lot of fun, I also really enjoyed the bosses more besides the optional ones. Just my tastes.
I just want KH2 fighting action to be in KH3.
Kingdom hearts 3 had great mobility but as I went back to play it again, I realized that that's just in terms of transportation.
But control and strategy not much aid from the game.
Animations hab cooldowns and prevent you from combining too much. For example combo-ing more immediately directly out of dodge roll or canceling your combo by dodge rolling or using other movement actions. More responsive lateral control during jumps. More crowd control through a smarter auto lock on system that lets you change when mid-combo easier.
Making everything feel more organic.
What do you think?
As a longtime fan of Square, I'm beginning to notice a pattern when it comes to Action heavy Rpg that they made during the ps2 on onwards. They're Always lacking in one area of Gameplay!
KH1: Sora's Movement and platforming
COM & Re:Com: The Card game Combat system
KH2: Combos and Drive Forms over Magic and Summons
BBS: Dodging, heavy usage of the Command Deck and Styles (that can't be toggled on or off).
DDD: Flow-motion, Crappy command Deck powers, and the Drop system.
The reasons why I listed these games, is because I played them, and didn't think playing Days or Re:Coded was worth playing.
The problem with the two Main consule titles is mainly about how the Devs constructed the game, but that's natural to see since KH1 was an exciting and new way of playing, while KH2 simply capitalized on what was established. You can even see that Evolution with Sora himself.
But most of the handheld problems are problems caused by Square's Over-emphasis on focusing combat in one area of the game! I mean, think about it, The Card System was pretty okay but forced your to rely heavily on it, and trying to get stronger Cards was insane! And when they created BBS on the Psp, they decided to focus the combat entirely on the new Key-blade styles, Deck commands and Shock-lock without fine tuning the Bosses and how they react to these attacks!
I cannot stress how bad this Over-Conceptualization of Combat can be if they can't balance it properly! DDD's Drop system is also a victim of this Over-Conceptualized gameplay idea, really putting into perspective of damaging this can be as combat can be completely forgone through the timer that shoots back and forth between Riku/Sora.
Why am I only just now seeing this video, and not BEFORE Kingdom Hearts III came out?!
Another great video mangg.
I really hope that the combo system gets revitalized. I miss the fun of doing combos that were actually relevant :(
You deserves a cookie for this video!
I agree with you mostly on combat focus. I played BBS for the first time on the HD remix, and just like 3D and re:Coded, I was pretty off put by how weak regular Keyblade attacks were in comparison to the Command Deck. It seemed to make the game unfair early game (especially for Aqua) because you don't get great commands early on. Sure, I got through it and completed the final and secret episodes about 2 months ago, but now I'm working on a Critical run of 2FM and the Command Deck has, undoubtedly, become foreign to me again. I'm not in a rush to play it again and really only did so for story's sake. The fact I admit that about a Kingdom Hearts game makes me sad.
Great video as always, Biz.
Personally my main concern about KH III and Osaka team's being involved - is their relying too much on gimmicks. Suff like shot-locks, flow-motion, even the concept of fusing commands and being able to fuse high-level ones so early in the game removed all the fun from the base combat which KHII had. Right now I'm not too excitied for KHIII after the latest trailer, as those attraction flows move look too gimmicky - without any actual control from the player's side. They just happen and you watch them, maybe pushing an attack button once in a while to continue strikes. It sucks. Also, the floatiness of combos is my main gripe with Osaka team's works - attacks just don't flow into each other naturally, the swings are at a constant speed throughout the duration of their animations and they overall feel stiff and not natural. There was a moment in KH III trailer (around 0:45 mark I believe), when I saw an aerial combo like that and it was such a huge let down for me. Completely agree with you in regards to the combo system and revenge value/stagger stuff, so won't be adding anything here. Kind of dissappointed they decided to get rid of reaction command, as with proper use, when timing was involved, it was sure lots of fun and flashiness was always great.
Serj Angelo KH combos are starting to remind me of how Riku attacked as a party member in KH2. Just all over the place, weird-looking, and unpredictable.
+Joey Copenhaver I see what you're talking about. Like how in the first Xemnas fight, when he put the curse on you and you had to run up the building to face him with the commands changing until you had a split second to choose the "Finish" command.
Combo thing you talked about.
I totally agree with that!! :D
We'll have to wait and see.
Please Allah let KH3 be good
Did you ever get to play it? And, how did you enjoy it if you did.
Oh oh I would like to hear your opinion too! What do you think about Kingdom hearts 3?
(Also, are you muslim? If so, i am too)
About game balance: I'm happy it was fixed in KH2.5 where you're not invincible. But in KH1.5, you can just spam Strike Raid to your hearts content as long as you have MP and ethers and you're basically unstoppable. That one move can get you through most of the fights in the game, except for Giant fights like Ice Titan, Ursula, etc. But it was really unfair and it makes me guilty to know that I had to use that just for Sephiroth on my Proud mode no equipment run because he was a bit too difficult. But about SR being balanced in KH2.5, Sonic Rave in Limit form almost takes it's place. Almost because you can at least get hit while doing Sonic Rave, but, it's still a cheesy tactic
I agree with most of this. Especially the part about boss staggering. You actually could've gone further and said that even regular mobs didn't stagger properly in DDD and 358/2 Days either (though at least the latter gave you more balanced options).
I guess the one point where I think some bias comes into this video is where you point out all the ways KH2(FM) is a benchmark for gameplay mechanics and balance.
You're not wrong at all that KH2 battles give you a lot of options and have consistent operation for the most part, but you also have the benefit of being familiar with the those things on a level that 90% of the player base will never be.
For me, the guy next to me, and little Suzy down the street, those options and mechanics don't matter, because mashing physical attack and using RCs the whole time supplemented by healing as needed is enough to get you through without paying attention to Limits, Summons, Revenge Values, cooldowns, and other mechanics.
I've found this to be the case even on Critical mode, with the only exception being the optional content. IMO, Data Org, Sephy, and Terra are the only places where the game's advanced mechanics become relevant to the casual player and have a chance to shine.
The entire reason the handhelds got away with sloppy gameplay balance is that the changes were invisible to most players anyway.
Now I feel like a fool for never using balloon in KH3D.
Bring in the more grounded combat of the original with some of the combo and magic set up of II. Plus bringing back Drive Forms as options. I love Valor Form.
I love how after the video ends the next automated youtube video it says i should watch is a kh2fm letsplay
I was somewhat expecting you talk about KHDDD's Reality Shifts mechanic. It probably won't be implemented in KH3, but it was a bit similar to Reaction Commands to almost the point of PRESS TRIANGLE TO WIN
GSavior BBS is more "Press Triangle to Win" than KH2. Sure, Triangle is used a lot in KH2 for things like gimmicks, Limits, and some segments you might get forced into, but (with some exceptions, of course) the bulk of the damage you deal to enemies (particularly bosses) will usually come from physical combos and magic.
dabestgamer finally a person has said bbs is more press triangle to win than kh2
They should've just kept kh2 combat instead of changing it
I'm really afraid of KH3 in a way, I loved how "fluid" things were with KH2 but ever since that game they always feel weird to me
Maybe it was the team change and how they handled stuff from that point onward
WCamicase KH2 was handled by a different design team, and if I'm correct, KH3 is being developed by this same team. If that's the case, then KH3 will be the most similar to KH2 in terms of combat, which by far has the most superior system of all games, especially because of things like revenge value. And to go further in-depth, there are still things we don't understand about the system. KH3 has to be even more complicated imo, but we can safely assume it won't be BbS or 3D-tier battle systems, where everything is static.
SoraHatesFangirls1 I do think that KH3 is being developed by the Osaka Team, but I read that the Tokyo Team is also involved so hopefully the game will be more KH2 esque
WCamicase
Yeah, hopefully. KH2 is my favourite to play because of all these mechanics. It makes the game interesting and fun, just like how Biz showed in the video how complex it is compared to BbS.
WCamicase I believe KH3 is being developed by Osaka team who made BBS and DDD, but is also directed by Nomura.
So hopefully Nomura can actually pull things together and fix some of the flaws the recent KH games have been making. Fingers crossed :)
David Miller
Could be. What we do know already is it's been confirmed to NOT be using the Command Deck system or anything similar (like what Days had), however that also brings in how much variety the game's battle system will have, whether it be more or less than KH2, and whether it's just as little or less than KH1.
You missed the command deck combos, which were some kind of combo evolution that changed up the gameplay. Although they still weren't as good as KH2, using something like Critical Impact of Thunderstorm and trashing mobs/bosses was still a relief in terms of the combos.
Maybe if in kh3 you can activate flowmotion by holding the square button right next to a wall instead of just pressing it so that the player won't accidentally activate flowmotion.
I think having Flowmotion in KH3 activated by Quick Running into a wall (not dodge rolling) is a good way to do it.
Something I think worth mentioning is that Flowmotion did have significant uses in combat, at least in the early stages of KH3D -- before obtaining any of the Balloon commands, a number of the early mob fights could be beaten quite easily by primarily using Shock Dive, as its wide area of effect made it quite potent in taking out multiple enemies. In fact, as far as Flowmo attacks go, there was almost no reason to use almost any Flowmo attack that wasn't Shock Dive. Point is, Flowmo had pretty decent use in combat (at least until you got Balloon commands), so I think the balance of the mechanic and all of its attacks needs to be examined a bit more carefully.
Issen Very true, it was more or so just a point to illustrate that you wouldn't really want to keep using Flow Motion attacks once you get Balloon Commands, since you can still get them VERY early in the game.
Yeah, that's a fair point.
I never had balloon commands(didnt bother to get them because i thought it would take forever), and flowmo isn't entirely useless in endgame, you could use it to get really high up to dodge ground attacks, and get close to that goddamn clock
sometimes i feel like the only person who REALLY doesn't like KH2 and considers the rest of the franchise (other than Days) to be much better in terms of pacing and game design overall
Well pacing is a different subject than game design. From a mechanics standpoint, the rest of the series after KH2 is extremely weak and poorly thought out + executed. Some people actually do prefer bad mechanics though
Agree with you 100% biz awesome video
Love you bizkit
I was oddly able to beat all of KH1 without using Dodge Roll when I was a kid.
If Square Enix was to listen to ANYONE about making changes, it is Bizkit047. FOR SURE
My main problem with Flowmotion in DDD is how it breaks the game a lot. Instead of having to find a way up onto a higher platform to get a chest, you can just scale the wall by alternating jumping and lunging off of a wall. Even an area in TWTNW with a wall that would hurt you if you touched it wasn't safe from this, because you could just scale up a nearby wall and glide over. It was kind of garbage.
I love your analysis videos!! is there anything broken on 2FM?
Breno Ranyere The only noticeably thing that is overpowered is reflect, but even then you can't spam it to win on the Data Fights.
TheLegendOfGroose so does that make 2FM a perfect game? i mean, is there anything wrong with it? i hear people dont like the xigbar fight for some reason
Breno Ranyere The only borderline broken thing is usually Reflega, but as stated in the video, you get it late game, and some of the 2FM optional bosses are designed to get around Reflega spam (Terra for example). Other possible broken tactic is using a Limit with Elixir spam, though that depends if you have free movement during the Limit, and if the Limit is actually strong (most strong Limits from KH2 were nerfed in 2FM). Also Peter Pan stagger lock on some bosses (mostly Saix) and the Negative Combo x2 strat on Terra are also broken, but boss specific, and for Terra it's level specific too
But to answer your question, not there's no broken move or ability that auto wins you fights by spamming it.
Breno Ranyere Nope, 2FM is not a perfect game, but it's definitely the most well designed in the series by a gigantic margin. The amount of thought and effort put into the game mechanics is insane
Bizkit047 makes me respect it even more!
I would like to see some kind of level scaling system implemented. When you level up enough, an old world’s enemies are just pitiful. And I also think that grinding until you can smash bosses is a bit outdated for game design.
"Balance to not spam one move." Unfortunately x and if I feel like it triangle was all that was needed for kh3 proud mode. :(
One thing I've noticed about DDD is that it was in a similar vein as BBS since you couldn't stagger bosses reliably, but that was usually because a vast majority of DDD's bosses were large and worked in a similar fashion to the bosses in 2FM. Human bosses were a bit more often staggered in DDD, but still could easily break out of a combo, specifically the endgame bosses.
SPOILERS AHEAD
Also the fact that Young Xehanort explained the laws of time to Riku and then broke them in the next fight makes my head spin.
Did any of you guys like the air time. I noticed that gravity is so much weaker in the BBS, 2.8, and in the KH3 demo. Didn't really like it. :p