Given the fact that we are told that an item should never be even partially dismantled in order to test it, I have found that the fan spindle is nearly always earthed on these class 1 fans, so I carry a small length if stainless welding rod (around 8 inches long) rod in my bag and this can easily be bent to suit and slid through the fan guard to reach the spindle.
Hi Ben, another great video. I would remove the blade guard and blades. The front panel should then be removable (usually three screws). I would test to this point and mark the paperwork to this effect, stating there is no exposed metalwork other than that attached to the plastic body/components. Regards Broadlander
With these type of fans I remove the fan blade housing. There are a few clips that can be opened easily by hand, and then the metal shaft on the motor can be accessed to test. Technically you’re dismantling, but if I don’t need tools to do so, I will so I can complete my test.
Long spike to the motor shaft. Drawback being you're taking a reading through the the motor bearings. Probably doesn't have an insulated drive gear which could possibly make it class 2. I find the earth path can be quite high and difficult to compensate for just using the cable size and length.
As you find it difficult to find an metal part to get an earth reading it will be almost impossible for a user to touch an exposed metal part under fault conditions. Just add a comment you are unable to access earth point and pass it.
The recessed screw is not accessible to touch so therefore I wouldn't worry about getting a reading. Just put a comment on the results sheet, "no test point"
its a tricky one for sure! remembering also about the length of a probe according to GS38. if you are using extended probes or wire on a clip etc you are risking an inaccurate and potentially unsafe reading. imagine that this fan has a fault that had made the metal parts LIVE and you have to probe it to see, and the motor engages and causes a sudden movement and so the long wire touches your hand etc. its all about a risk assessment then. is it safe to remove the guard and run a test in the environment you are in and that sort of thing. what sort of test can you do. if a standard probe cannot be used i personally wouldnt attach other things to get a reading. ud need to calculate then the resistance of the wire you are using and that sort of thing, complicating the results if someone else was to test it. you could perform an earth continuity test if your probe can reach and make contact, but a load /leakage test i would do a thorough risk assessment first before thinking of that. sounds like a lot of fuss. but its just to make the test result clear for the next test so you can determine if the equipment is deteriorating or developing a fault over time. introducing longer or thicker probes etc can give you different readings compared to how it may have been tested before.
@@caterhampattesting www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/gs38.pdf if you check here there is guidance on the length of probes that should be used. so if the item you are testing cant be tested with probes recommended by gs38 its best to avoid probing it to test
What would your result for that fan be then? Fail - no as it hasn't given evidence of being unsafe etc. Pass - but you don't know if it has an internal fault. Pass (to a point) where you say which parts of the test it has passed. Exclude - can't be effectively tested as no Earth?
Be keen to get an answer on this too Graeme. Ive had a couple of item recently that i was unable to get an earth on and tbh am slighlty unsure how it should be logged. Any feedback appreciated
Hi ben, could you then just run a PE Conductor current test (for example using the Apollo 500+ you could select manual pat and use test 3) Kind regards
Well, I would say that "it is a designed flaw", if it was legally brought on UK / EU market (bought from Asda) I would write comment, ...... or I wouldnt test it and inform customer that I cant give him paper on this appliance because this. and regulation / guideline state bla bla and it must be earthed.... If you really want to satisfy your customer then write an exception on grid but product is approved by EU/UK standards... Sometimes you cant satisfy everyone, but you need cover your back that you do correct work and be honest to yourself/the client and inform there is a gray area (and you can continue such as if you want approve it: "and because that grid cant touch that live parts either if you smash it on the floor, then I can write pass .." or I will make it because it is EU/UK approved on this market and yout bought it from asda.... I paas it... and so on). .... ... .. Me personally I would not give a sticker, I would inform that there is a flaw and I cant do it on this OR ...... open it and fix it (earth it) and close it and approve it... is another solution if you want satisfy your customer... In this stage you can charge him some $ for the work and it is win win... If equipment is really expensive for example 100k ... I would check if it is approved by EU/UK this item and if yes then seek information from manufacturer if it is flaw or not... if they replay on my email it is not I would approve it... (good is you also cover your back in case of incident/death/injury that you have email from company who manufacture this item that this is not a flaw) best reg
Thanks for your reply. it definitely isn’t a design flaw. Many fans like this with plastic casing is difficult to get an earth but if you removed the fan blade protection housing then you would be able to get an earth from the fan blade metal shaft - hence why this is definitely a class 1 item. I would be very happy to pass this item.
@@caterhampattesting I am just thinking how it is possible that it was approved. by eu and I think the reason is because that protection grid is covered by layer of paint... and paint make it not conductive... it means this is reason why it is passed EU regulation... There is different story that customer scratched paint by using product... this is his fault and later discovered as a designed flaw which wasnt presented before he bought it... Best regards
Just started PAT testing for my company , just wanted some advice on few items that I have come across . My company has few Samsung monitors that are powered by a psu unit with a figure 8 lead . The psu unit is marked as class 2 , it’s a 25 watt psu . Is this item just a visual check or would I need to test it as a class 2 item and connect the fly lead to an exposed metal part , the only thing I can see is the vga port . Any advice ? I am using the prime test 250+
Given the fact that we are told that an item should never be even partially dismantled in order to test it, I have found that the fan spindle is nearly always earthed on these class 1 fans, so I carry a small length if stainless welding rod (around 8 inches long) rod in my bag and this can easily be bent to suit and slid through the fan guard to reach the spindle.
Hi Ben, another great video. I would remove the blade guard and blades. The front panel should then be removable (usually three screws). I would test to this point and mark the paperwork to this effect, stating there is no exposed metalwork other than that attached to the plastic body/components. Regards Broadlander
With these type of fans I remove the fan blade housing. There are a few clips that can be opened easily by hand, and then the metal shaft on the motor can be accessed to test. Technically you’re dismantling, but if I don’t need tools to do so, I will so I can complete my test.
Long spike to the motor shaft. Drawback being you're taking a reading through the the motor bearings. Probably doesn't have an insulated drive gear which could possibly make it class 2. I find the earth path can be quite high and difficult to compensate for just using the cable size and length.
As you find it difficult to find an metal part to get an earth reading it will be almost impossible for a user to touch an exposed metal part under fault conditions. Just add a comment you are unable to access earth point and pass it.
The recessed screw is not accessible to touch so therefore I wouldn't worry about getting a reading. Just put a comment on the results sheet, "no test point"
I do agree however on a lot of fans they are connected to an earth bond and therefore should be tested if possible.
So a pass or fail? Or visual only?
With these fans I usually just carry out my insulation resistance test and the visual then pass them
its a tricky one for sure! remembering also about the length of a probe according to GS38. if you are using extended probes or wire on a clip etc you are risking an inaccurate and potentially unsafe reading.
imagine that this fan has a fault that had made the metal parts LIVE and you have to probe it to see, and the motor engages and causes a sudden movement and so the long wire touches your hand etc.
its all about a risk assessment then. is it safe to remove the guard and run a test in the environment you are in and that sort of thing.
what sort of test can you do.
if a standard probe cannot be used i personally wouldnt attach other things to get a reading. ud need to calculate then the resistance of the wire you are using and that sort of thing, complicating the results if someone else was to test it.
you could perform an earth continuity test if your probe can reach and make contact, but a load /leakage test i would do a thorough risk assessment first before thinking of that.
sounds like a lot of fuss. but its just to make the test result clear for the next test so you can determine if the equipment is deteriorating or developing a fault over time.
introducing longer or thicker probes etc can give you different readings compared to how it may have been tested before.
Length of the probe and GS38?
@@caterhampattesting www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/gs38.pdf if you check here there is guidance on the length of probes that should be used. so if the item you are testing cant be tested with probes recommended by gs38 its best to avoid probing it to test
What would your result for that fan be then?
Fail - no as it hasn't given evidence of being unsafe etc.
Pass - but you don't know if it has an internal fault.
Pass (to a point) where you say which parts of the test it has passed.
Exclude - can't be effectively tested as no Earth?
Be keen to get an answer on this too Graeme. Ive had a couple of item recently that i was unable to get an earth on and tbh am slighlty unsure how it should be logged. Any feedback appreciated
Hi ben, could you then just run a PE Conductor current test (for example using the Apollo 500+ you could select manual pat and use test 3)
Kind regards
a PE test is unrelated to an earth bond test and is only useful if the insulation resistance test readings throw up anything under tolerence.
Well, I would say that "it is a designed flaw", if it was legally brought on UK / EU market (bought from Asda) I would write comment, ...... or I wouldnt test it and inform customer that I cant give him paper on this appliance because this. and regulation / guideline state bla bla and it must be earthed.... If you really want to satisfy your customer then write an exception on grid but product is approved by EU/UK standards...
Sometimes you cant satisfy everyone, but you need cover your back that you do correct work and be honest to yourself/the client and inform there is a gray area (and you can continue such as if you want approve it: "and because that grid cant touch that live parts either if you smash it on the floor, then I can write pass .." or I will make it because it is EU/UK approved on this market and yout bought it from asda.... I paas it... and so on). .... ... .. Me personally I would not give a sticker, I would inform that there is a flaw and I cant do it on this OR ...... open it and fix it (earth it) and close it and approve it... is another solution if you want satisfy your customer... In this stage you can charge him some $ for the work and it is win win...
If equipment is really expensive for example 100k ... I would check if it is approved by EU/UK this item and if yes then seek information from manufacturer if it is flaw or not... if they replay on my email it is not I would approve it... (good is you also cover your back in case of incident/death/injury that you have email from company who manufacture this item that this is not a flaw)
best reg
Thanks for your reply. it definitely isn’t a design flaw. Many fans like this with plastic casing is difficult to get an earth but if you removed the fan blade protection housing then you would be able to get an earth from the fan blade metal shaft - hence why this is definitely a class 1 item.
I would be very happy to pass this item.
@@caterhampattesting I am just thinking how it is possible that it was approved. by eu and I think the reason is because that protection grid is covered by layer of paint... and paint make it not conductive... it means this is reason why it is passed EU regulation...
There is different story that customer scratched paint by using product... this is his fault and later discovered as a designed flaw which wasnt presented before he bought it...
Best regards
Just started PAT testing for my company , just wanted some advice on few items that I have come across . My company has few Samsung monitors that are powered by a psu unit with a figure 8 lead . The psu unit is marked as class 2 , it’s a 25 watt psu . Is this item just a visual check or would I need to test it as a class 2 item and connect the fly lead to an exposed metal part , the only thing I can see is the vga port . Any advice ? I am using the prime test 250+
So by the sounds of it, it will be just a visual inspection on the AC adaptor part and then a visual inspection on the figure 8 cable. Simple as that!
How can you tell if it is class 1 and need to look in the plug but it is moulded and don't want to butcher the plug
If something isn’t marked a class 2 then you have to assume it is a class 1 appliance.