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3. Learn Disc Golf Backhand Form - Get Lag
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- čas přidán 12. 08. 2024
- Lag is the delay up the kinematic chain that causes late acceleration. How do we get it? In this module, we'll learn about leading with your weight and the proper lower-upper body connections that generate lag. Get ready to give that arm a wild ride.
IMPORTANT REMINDER: Do not use the images of my own form as gospel because it is a work in progress. In this module, my lower body action is not ideal. The hip rocking action in particular should appear more like this:
• Pogo Leg Hip Drill
We review problems with my form examples as cases in point at the end of the BH series:
• Spotting Common Mistak...
0:00 Introduction
0:19 Today's overview
2:22 Find your leverage, loosen up, lag
3:11 Leverage/drift into the weight shift
3:24 Cocking the hips
4:06 Tilt shoulders, load core
4:53 Protract shoulders, dingle arms
6:03 Pelvic tilt & hip rock
6:57 Watch that head!
7:45 Weight shift and lag
8:14 Proper backswing ("reachback")
8:37 Syncing the X-Step
10:16 Slow Swing Drill
11:22 The Lag in action
References and advanced content:
The Kinematic (here, "kinetic") Chain
www.dgcoursereview.com/forums...
Straight & Flat Swing Plane Does Not Exist!
www.dgcoursereview.com/forums...
Weight shift drills:
• Elephant Walk Drill
• Hammer Swing X-Step
Loading the bow:
• Loading the Bow & Arro...
Inside swing drill (Excellent for alignment and range of motion):
• Butt Wipe and Inside S...
The dingle arm:
• Reciprocating Dingle Arm
Slow motion drills:
• Slow Motion Drill Perp...
So I have been working on your drills, and when not actually throwing the disc it feels like I’m doing it right, even with disc in hand but holding it so it stays flat and just sort of paddles against the air. But as soon as I actually throw a disc, it feels like it all goes wrong. This seems to be the case for lots of people when working on drills like this. Just a mental hurdle I suppose. Brain snapping back to old habits. Any advice for dealing with this? Just more reps without throwing?
Believe me, I feel the pain. I think combining throwing and not throwing is important. Not throwing gets you into postures & helps you learns movements. But if you don't throw your body can't adapt to the new balance & control. Discs bouncing off your chest and flying out early is to be expected at first.
Speeding up to throwing speed usually leads to one or more of (1) rushing/reverting back to old habits, (2) getting new moves out of sequence/balance, (3) moving your release point (often to the left if you're RHBH because you keep increasing the acceleration earlier in the swing), and (4) totally new release trajectories since the swing plane isn't flat, and it will change every time you adjust something. Unfortunately, I think it's just a truism that everyone is inconsistent while learning.
My series is intended to be an "intermediate" level progression. I still go through versions of the above struggles the deeper I get into seabas22's content & mentoring. All that to say, I think you should expect to get more inconsistent before you get better, and choose short term goals/milestones to keep you motivated (whether it's distance, accuracy, learning part of the form, etc.).
In the long term, I decided I wanted a very high-level swing, so I'm still doing daily work myself. I've learned that I just need to accept that my performance on the course will remain a little wild right now until I settle down and stop tinkering with my form!
I have experienced the same thing. Everything feels "perfect" when I'm not actually throwing the disc. I think it's a mental thing, like you said. Like learning how to ride a bike or to clutch with a manual. It's a mental code you have to crack when you are dealing with new motory skills.
@@AceItDiscGolf this needs to be pinned for more to see. Great advice.
I knew from the start that like any other learned skill, the principles are typically very easy to understand (chess is a good example), but actual improvement takes time, weeks or probably months even with regular field work. But I’m this for the long term, so I have to keep at it.
It's a healthy thought! Remember that each skill can take hundreds of reps and a few weeks to become permanent.
Choosing to do one or two until they're 100% reliable and building in a sequence is usually "best" when learning motor skills, but I'm guilty of not doing that all the time. And sometime "just doing it" by working on several things at once is better as long as you're doing each one of them well. But most of us aren't.
In my case, my best swings are getting very good now, but they are not yet highly reproducible. I have made so many changes so quickly that my body and brain need time to catch up, and a few rough areas need more work. I had a really bad round last Sunday because my body had been overworked for a few weeks and my form just wasn't there on most shots.
We don't talk often enough about the role of rest and recovery. I'm shutting down from throwing completely for a week or two and then I will see how it's going. I expect the next 6 months to be more productive in some ways and slower in others. It might have been better spreading the work out differently over a year - I guess I'll never know! But I'm happy with my trajectory now, and I've learned a lot about myself and patience.
FWIW, I always spend much more time smoothing my form out than yeeting for power. That's because my main personal goal is to develop a "lifelong swing" since I want to play forever. I know Josh from Overthrow shares the "slow and steady" approach where the distance comes bit by bit and it has gone well for him. Seabas too.
I think everyone gets there differently, and it's ok if it's faster or slower.
Hang in there!
I posted on another video some thanks. It lit a bulb in my head of what was missing in mechanics. I was struggling, field day after field day to occasionally hit 200'. Now two quick after work sessions. I hit 270, and I'm almost never under 200, and my arm isn't all blown out and tired.
Thank you so much for the amazing series. I have several friends I'll be sending to your resources.
I LOVE how many times you demonstrate these moves. Thank you for breaking it all the way down.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! I'm 69 years old and have been playing for 4.5 years. I do okay, especially for my age, but I thought I might have hit a wall on distance. I've been doing well to get a 12 or 13 speed driver to go 300 feet. On rare occasions, I might manage 320 or 330. I watched your video; didn't do the exercises, just watched. The key point for me was keeping the arm limp so that the body rotation "flings" the arm. I tried it yesterday on a 240' hole. I threw a 9 speed Escape that is usually perfect for the hole for me. I keep the arm limp and let the body rotation fling the arm. I watched with my mouth hanging open (awestruck) as the Escape easily sailed to a point 303' from the tee-pad and uphill to boot. I easily duplicated the power increase with mid-ranges practicing on baskets in my yard (7 acres) today. Again....THANK YOU!
Stories like this make me feel like it's worth it - awesome! Keep us posted about how it's going. May I one day have 7 acres to throw on!
As a player who is a “mere” 61, I am greatly encouraged by your tale.
Thank you for putting it into bite size logic that my brain can digest. I'm 62 years young and have been playing disc golf for about 5 months (following a recent hip replacement). I've probably spent more time watching You Tube videos than I have on the course. Everyone says " let the power start at your feet, engage your hips" and many other things. I didn't know what that all meant until I watch how you break each movement down, then build it back up. Awesome instruction!
You did a nice job of building off of Seabas22 lessons. I can see in your swing work a need for working on spine flexibility so you can achieve the shoulder tilt while keeping hips and head centered, pro golf vids teach that. The weight shift is led by the body’s center of gravity falling forward which then pulls the hips and shoulders. In relation to counterbalancing, it is good to be aware just how early that happens, as the pendulum arm is passing the back leg actually. Every motion sport using the weight shift trick of arm still going back while the body’s center of gravity moves forward to create a gravity slingshot. Hockey slow mo’s of slapshots show it well, so do baseball homerun slo-mos.
Appreciate this and agree. Seabas22 is on top of me for that. I also have some leg action issues I'm working on which are related to spine tilt/curve and lag. Such a hard move to learn esp. when starting later in life and no throwing background.
ugh trying to unlearn 30 yrs of improper form is a pain! but im working on it :)
so detailed. Lovin it.
Really good video mate!
Been struggling with muscling the disc for almost 2 years now but this video made something click. Thank you so much for the time and effort you put into these videos. Shout out to @overthrowdiscgolf for helping me find this channel. Keep up the great work!!!
I.still don't understand the concept of the swing in not flat. What does that mean exactly?
Many people try to throw/swing the disc in a straight line away from and toward the target.
That's wrong:
www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134415
So amazing ❤️
Hello, thanks for the videos. I'm understanding the weight shift much better now. I'm struggling with the back swing. You take a straight back approach but there is a lot of information about the wide rail approach where the backswing it more outward away from the body. What are you thoughts on that style of backswing?
I think the "wide rail" and "walk past the disc" style are both variants of the same mechanics. They wide-narrow-wide pattern into the throw is what you want no matter what (First post here: www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134415)
Here's a post where I first started to feel/understand the connection between those styles and the pendulum style:
www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3812903&postcount=47
The pendulum can help "solve" the backswing problem because it gets your body loaded up in the "wide" position, then it swings narrow then wide into the downswing/throw. That's why I found it easier to learn: I could "skip" learning the narrow part in the backswing. However, that doesn't mean it's "better" in the long run: I'm still working on tilt in the backswing, and a proper "wide rail" or "walk past" style requires that tilt to function correctly - you simply can't do it right without it. Just different ways to achieve the same goal!
Sir can i learn it i throw less 300 ft 3 years
Way to start with a regular speed shot. The first thing we see is the best imprint on our brain often so it's important not to break it down and just show pieces without the timing.
Wow. That was sooooo good
Hey, it's you guys! Glad you found your way over here. Love how you've built out your platform and follow you. Thanks :-)
@@AceItDiscGolf I’m glad I found my way over too. That was great. Lots of Seabas22 and loopghost references/vibes.
@@OverthrowDiscGolf Seabas22 has been directly mentoring me for months - I wanted to take a lot of what I've learned from him, you, and other sources and stack it into a "how I wish I'd started out" series. I'm having a ton of fun. Should chat sometime!
@@AceItDiscGolf this is the collab we need.
You are really good at breathing in 😂
Now I can't unhear it. Duly noted!
@@AceItDiscGolf It got better or I got used to it 😂 Going to check out the other videos in this series!
@@Vhreez Haha great! I'm glad you mentioned it so I can be more mindful in the future.
You don't let the disc behind and go around it?
Or is it just for practice?
I suggest and teach both styles. You see less pendulum throwers these days, but sometimes it is easier to learn how balance, posture, and timing are related when you're learning. I also work on my own "walk around" style too. Both have their strengths and weaknesses so I fully encourage experimenting to see what helps it click!
@@AceItDiscGolf I find that perspective to be way more helpful than forcing the "walk around". In the end the only important thing is that we get into the right position. The "walk around" to me seams like a good strategy when the overall timing is off while the pendulum gives a better feeling for the contralateral movement (right arm and left leg). For people with less experience in sports I feel like learning the pendulum to get that connection first can be very helpful since many already can't do basic contralateral movements smoothly (e.g. cross crawling) with the disc golf throw being way more complicated of a movement. The "walk around" is more of a mental trick I believe to prevent people from overextending and pushing their shoulder too far out and around their body. Most people probably land on a hybrid somewhere between those two "pure" techniques, depending on what feels most comfortable for them.
@@MichaCnk Well said! Worth pointing out that you can still observe the same pendulum motion in the body in pro level form, they just mostly don't use the pump/pendulum style backswing. McBeth used to have a big pump swing that has gotten smaller and smaller as the years go by.
What is the “garage target” setup? Looks very simple.
Just a thick blanket folded twice over a metal beam!
@@AceItDiscGolf
I'm grabbing an old blanket and heading to the garage now! Excellent idea! Thanks much!
5/5
Wow look at that! Basic throwing physics. Same concepts apply to every throwing event
This looks like a recipe on how to round as a beginner. Seems like a more old school way of teaching form, and not a athletic "modern" way of throwing
Always open to any specific critiques!
@@AceItDiscGolf Watch slingshot disc golf
@@FrisbeeeNick I've seen it all and taken it under advisement. Thank you!
what about it says rounding to you?
I’m not rounding at all as a result of practicing this stuff. Is it possibly because my body is already aware that rounding is not the way to go?