How to choose a chef knife - Chef's knife vs Japanese and Chinese chef knife
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- čas přidán 26. 08. 2024
- [CC] English Closed Caption has been added. Make sure to turn it on if you have trouble understanding my pronunciations.
How to choose a chef knife?
In this video, I'm explaining why a certain chef chooses a certain chef knife. I will explain why it is important to know your primary gripping style and why a certain chef from different cuisines and countries prefers a back, middle, and front balanced knife.
Want to know more about choosing the correct chef knife and Rockwell Hardness? Click on the link below:
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Want to see an overview with my personal score about the steel types, click on the link below:
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Many of the knives shown in this video has not been reviewed yet.
Some of the knives are hand-forged Japanese knives from Yu Kurosaki and from Takayuki Shibata. Both of those knives are sold for $300+. A review of the Gyuto from Yu Kurosaki and knives from Takayuki Shibata will be uploaded to my CZcams channel.
Click on the link below if you want to search for other Chinese knives:
bit.ly/31Z5sXP
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*[CC] English Closed Caption has been added make sure to turn it on if you have trouble understanding my pronunciations.*
If you have any questions leave them behind in the comments section below.
What you should know before buying any knives is to know what kind of cuisine you want to cover and what your primary gripping style is.
I can recommend knives with a 56 to 58 HRC to anyone from home cooks, culinary students and professional cooks/chefs.
All other knives with an HRC of 60+ are dependent on what you want to do with it. They will chip and break if not used properly (not suitable for going trough bones or frozen food).
A separate video about Japanese knives will follow including the Japanese styled knives made in china vs Japanese knives made in Japan.
I also got in contact with 3 Japanese knife makers and asked a lot of questions some answers were lost due to the language barrier.
But I found something interesting and that is that they all don't recommend Bamboo cutting boards and diamond or any other harsh honing rod.
A video about the cutting boards will be made too.
Feel free to suggest something that you want to see covered about knives, cutting board, honing rods, whetstones, natural stones, diamond stones.
So what wpyld you say is a good knife for mainly meets
@@burnettstone8203 depends on what kinds of cuts but in general I would say A Chinese all-purpose cleaver since they are also capable of going through bones.
Especially if you are doing a whole duck dish, breaking down the duck with that cleaver is great. (the weight also helps going trough bones, great for food transferring/plating and the back of the knife can be used as a meat tenderizer)
Don't want a big knife Go for a german knife like the Wusthof with a Rockwell of 58 good enough sharpness, edge retention while still being able to go through smaller bones from a duck or chicken. (Can handle pretty much the same task as the Chinese All-purpose cleaver but losing some of the weight and width of the blade to transfer food)
For boneless meat, I would say that a Gyuto should be fine too (trimming of fast and cutting it into pieces).
@@chefpanko awesome man thank for the great reply!
I'm hunting wild pigs so I figured I'd get a knife specify for the job specially since they're so tough
@@burnettstone8203 I never butchered a complete pig, so the above knives recommendation might not be the best for butchering a complete pig.
If I remember correctly I saw my butcher using a butcher knife (looked like a Victorinox)and a saw for a complete pig.
So it is probably better to ask a butcher or ask ''Orlando Lazar'' (he is below here in the comments), he actually did everything himself (and is planning his own farm or ''homesteading'' project where he raises everything himself from pigs, rabbits, chicken, etc).
@@chefpanko forgive me, I mean after I've gutted them. A nice kitchen knife for the meat after the fact. Cooking & what have you
I've got a nice puma knife already for the skinning and gutting.
How the hell did I search Giggle for knives for a year and just now find this? Very informative video. I'm shocked it doesn't have more views. Thank you.
What's Giggle? 😂
@@Masterfighterx I think they meant Google 😂😂
This is really the best knife channel on CZcams (together with Burrfection when it comes to sharpening). You got a new subscriber!
As a video topic suggestion: Can you demonstrate the different cutting styles (push cut, rock chopping, etc.) and discuss the different pros and cons of each? I think this will be very helpful since we all want to use the knives we buy ;)
Anyway, keep up the great work!
I'd love to see that too!
It is. I've found it just yesterday and been watching all the videos.
As for Ryky, I like him a lot, but after some time You find his video contradicting between themselves and he never corrects wrong statements. Fun to watch, but I chose other channels to learn basics.
I love the extensive info and wide range you cover. Also, the fact that you flash the shibatas all the time gives you extra points for me.
Edit: I also despise globals.
Thanks for all the videos, the do help a lot.
I just bought myself first premium class Japanese knife. And returned it next day. Couldn't get rid of the feeling, that my old 10$ chef knife is way more comfortable. Now I am watching all Your videos, trying to figure out, what I need. What shape, what handle, what steel. And it's not what I thought of at the beginning.
If you have any questions feel free to ask :) PS: sorry for the very late reply.
@@chefpanko No problem, I really appreciate Your commitment.
After ordering and returning two more, lots of reading, watching and thinking, I went for Hado Junpaku Shirogami #1. Didn't want a laser nor thick workhorse, didn't like curvy classic gyutos geometry. This one is closer to Misono 440 dimensionwise, which is often recommended. And since it's a birthday gift, I wanted something less ordinary, something I wouldn't buy otherwise. And I have soft spot for handcraft items. You treat them differently if they have history.
Thanks again for all the content, it truly did help make final decision.
@@The-Mr-Sz Excellent choice!!! Hado is not the cheapest knife but the finish and thinness of their knives are really unique. Especially the grind that they add to the choil once you look at that choils you may know it is a Hado knife.
While Sakai Ichimonji did not disclose who the maker was for their Ginsan Shigure Santoku. I only have seen Hado giving their knives such a grind, especially at the choil.
So my suspicion is that the Shigure Santoku was a knife made by Hado the video can be found here: czcams.com/video/ee1E6hw9I0c/video.html
To this day it is still the best Santoku that I won.
Glad you found a knife! And I have to say I'm jealous!! Hado knife great choice!
@@chefpanko Ginsan Santoku - that's next point on my set upgrade list ;) And must say Your Sakai Ichimonji looks pretty close to what I am looking for. Simplicity of form that only emphasizes it's utility. Love it. That's why I couldn't get Hado out of my mind, even while holding Yu Kurosaki knife in hands. It was very, very nice. But Hado design is just something else.
I don't know if they make knives for other brands. From what I've learned it's a common standard in Sakai, that smiths, sharpeners, handle makers and brand owners are different beings that cooperate from series to series. Hado is quite different from others, since they outsource the forging (e.g. Junpaku series is forged by Yoshikazu Tanaka) but maintain in-house grinding and sharpening, which makes their design unique and consistent. In fact their head sharpener - Tadataka Maruyama - is the person they built all the marketing around. They are quite young brand for Sakai standards and Maruyama started to make knives fully on his own maybe 4 years ago. At the beginning of Hado, they hired Yauchi-san to teach Maruyama double bevel sharpening. Maybe he is the person responsible for today's look of their knives and also worked for Sakai Ichimonji with their Shigure series, so they look similar to Hado? Or maybe Hado was still developing and sold some of their products to other knife shops? Or maybe they only sharpened the blades to get more experience? Either way, congrats on getting that Santoku. Good series seem to sell out fast.
@@The-Mr-Sz They do make knives for other retailers, it is quite common for the retailers to contract multiple knife makers and sell them under their own store name. Sakai Ichimonji is one of the retailers that use multiple makers and manufacturers in addition to their own in-house traditional engraver and sharpeners.
Some might get confused as they are located in Osaka the knives come from all around Japan and not from Osaka only. With each order, you can adjust and change things so they stay unique or somewhat timed exclusive to your store.
There are still a lot of knife makers across Japan with many exclusively for Japanese retailers (the main reason is that they can't add more and most of the time they need a third party for overseas retailers to communicate with so overseas retailers usually use a third party agency to get them connected with, this also can be a problem as to restocking and other things as it is not as easy as many think to get all the knives listed for their own store).
But there is also another problem that nobody talks about, which I was asked my opinion about by a Japanese TV show but they had to cut me out due to the time limit per episode that they air on TV. And that is the aging population and the younger generation is not willing to do labor-intensive work like knife-making. Many stop their apprenticeship training etc.
Only the future will tell which direction they will be going to combat that, they may opt to abandon tradition and go to the mass-market section of manufacturing using modernized machines instead of hand forging, etc. Or separate the product line like other bigger Japanese manufacturers are doing by having a separate traditional team for handmade vs mass-production like Tojiro.
Very unfortunate that they had to cut me out (and they also cut out the entire knife-making section), but that episode was about Japanese artisans/craftmanship, like how the industry of Japanese tradition is slowly dying and scaled down massively such as hand-made pottery, etc due to the aging population and the new generation not willing to do labor-intensive work and the slowing down of birth.
The TV show is called Shisatsudan and only aired in Japan I think the Full name in English was: Asahi’s cross-cultural show “Nippon Shiatsu-dan” (very cool that they contacted me but also disappointing to get cut out due to time constraints per show).
I'm a very amateur cook with no formal, or informal, training. I switch gripping styles all the time. However, there are lots of basic safety and efficiency techniques that are very important fundamentals. I think amateur chefs should do what's comfortable and evolve with their skills while keeping those basic methods in mind...but what do I know...other than that was another good video. Great job C.P.
Thank you for your insights. I completely agree!
As a home cook, you don't have the pressure to finish the task in a limited time.
At a restaurant, if you are extremely slow, no breaks at all, no time for a drink or a meal, or your entire team will be in trouble, if a restaurant hires someone new, they guide him with basics, but he needs to improve and speed up within 2 weeks of the trial period, or he is out. (those who are fast have a lot of small coffee breaks etc.).
Especially in the rush hour when everyone has their own station and orders to fulfill.
If one of them is slow and is part of that particular dish's/set menu team, then your menu is not complete and won't be served until it is complete
(with a risk that a plate comes back because it became cold).
While it is always good to follow the basics and safety guidelines, a restaurant cook has tremendous prep work and pressure when a restaurant is fully booked with a limited time. Hence, they usually add the safety rules to prevent them from cutting themself while working fast.
With a small cut, you deal with it, deep cut, you will miss one cook and a waiter, runner, or server (bringing the cook to a hospital to get you stitched up) adding extra pressure in the kitchen and outside since they lost a person to cover the tables.
At home, I advise that everyone just enjoy and take their time (and improve the speed over time).
Just work on the fundamentals, basics, efficiency, speed, and safety guidelines at your own pace.
Many student cooks who need to do their ''stage'' (unpaid internship) are not getting hired due to the pandemic. They are working in a smaller than the regular team to cover the online orders and take-away (restaurants are closed for months almost a year now since dining in the restaurant is not allowed in The Netherlands). Some struggling restaurants are now even cooking and delivering at the same time. Since the delivery service like Uber Eats etc., is taking a huge cut per order, you need to pay for the system monthly. And getting your restaurant listed in their app costs extra (exposure). And orders are reduced since pretty much every restaurant is using the delivery service to survive (and if you want more orders, pay the delivery services to get listed on the top of the app).
A ''Stage'' is crucial for student cooks before they graduate since the experience they gain is valuable (experiencing the pressure, time limit, working in a team, etc.).
@@chefpanko The only pressure I get at home is a hungry wife and 10 year old boy. It seems pretty intense at times...but it isn't. I love cutting stuff up. I really had two hobby choices, cooking or serial killer.
@@chefpanko keeping busy restaurant subject. Did You have a chance to watch The Bear series?
Just finished first season, hoping to get some cooking ideas. I did pick up a few but 90% of the plot is restaurant chaos oriented. Is there really that much pressure or is it exaggerated to make the series more thrilling?
@@The-Mr-Sz The work environment and how they display it is kind of exaggerated (can be an American thing I don't know I mean they are quite toxic to each other), but at the same time extremely accurate especially how they portray each person's personality as we truly do have some that we can say is the same as some in the series. They displayed how chaotic it can be but at the same time the person in that chaos is in his moment for him it is home/peach for others that watch it from outside or join in looks chaotic.
A well-organized team will not have the pressure but when you get 2 trainees because the other 2 that were supposed to work them in get sick it will be chaos! pressure directly from the start of the shift. The person that did the ordering of the produce that calculated everything wrong or did not anticipate the influx of guest reservations etc all real scenarios! while in the series they had other options to get the ingredient, we just had to call our supplier and add a fast-track delivery which sometimes they can't schedule one in and then we have to resort to other methods to get them ie; sending people to a local supermarket, the produce might not always be the best or the freshest compared to the supplier we still have to serve. The local butcher is not the best but if our beef supplier can't schedule delivery because we messed the order up it's on the chef.
So yeah the chaos itself and scenarios are real, things that can happen the series does a splendid job.
But other things are added in for the story/punch to make the series interesting I can't imagine certain things happening.
Great series I still have to finish it.
@@The-Mr-Sz PS: while I said Toxic there are moments where I would have said the same thing in the series but not screamed it out loud. Just silently play it in my head during certain chaotic stressful situations. (we keep it at a respectful level, but there were some that had tiny bursts, especially on the new guys, which I occasionally had to step in to calm him down, I mean we all were new and starting so they were slower no need to yell at them, it makes them more stressful they are not used to the speed yet).
Excellent video as always.
Thank you :)
Hi, quite an informative video.
Just a point of correction, the Chinese knife you have is not a Chinese chef's knife. Chinese broad knives can be classified into 3 types: slicing / chef's knife (片刀), bone cleaver (斩骨刀), and the mixed-purpose knife (文武刀) (which is what you have in your video).
Chinese restaurant chefs tend to use the slicing / chef's knife because it's suited for delicate slicing and fine control. The whole blade is used. They swap this with the cleaver as and when necessary.
The mixed-purpose knife is a combination of a slicing blade at the top, and a bone cleaver at the bottom. It's more of something used by people who want convenience over knifework quality (like a housewife or a street food stall cook).
Thanks for the info :)
@@chefpanko perhaps because of the type that you have, you said that chinese chefs use the tip to slice. That is incorrect and like the commenter above said, the whole knife is used.
Great information, new subscriber 👍
Liked and subscribed. Just want to say that your channel and content are super underrated. They deserve more views so I hope you can continue to produce more videos and that your channel will grow to a subscription base it deserves.
Also, would love to see your take on the Kramer Zwilling Knives (Meiji etc).
Very thorough, thanks!
Thank you for watching, if you have any questions feel free to ask :)
I would say serious home chefs are better off with carbon steel Japanese knives. They don't have the time constraints of professional chefs, so wiping down the blade frequently is not an issue and sharpening is generally far easier. Bearing in mind that most carbon blades are stainless clad anyway, maintenance is really not a problem. Add to that the ease of cutting and the much long edge retention, especially when you are getting up to the higher HRC values and the benefits far outweigh the downsides. Obviously there are stainless, semi-stainless and powder steels that can be heat treated to similar hardness, but they are almost always harder to sharpen.
There are a lot of cleavers now with very curved profiles, so they can be used for rocking, although I don't think they are ideal, because they are not weighted properly for rocking. That said, for anyone who doesn't use a rocking motion much, a cleaver is a perfectly acceptable tool for western cuisine and probably the most versatile knife for any chef.
I wouldn't really recommend a western knife for any serious home chef. They have slight ease of maintenance by being all stainless and more robust, but they will need sharpening more frequently, will be more difficult to sharpen and won't perform as well. I can understand professional chefs using them in certain busy environments, where they don't have time to keep swapping knives or to care for their knives during use, but otherwise, their appeal is limited. Also for home users who just aren't that serious about cooking, they may be the best option, although the fact that their edge retention is worse and that this sort of user is unlikely to sharpen their knives is not a good combination.
I've been into pocket knives for quite some time now, carried one since about 10yo, and became an avid collector in the last few years. So I sharpen my own knives without issue. I've also enjoyed cooking for a long time, but I'm still fairly amateur with cooking. Right now I have a crappy Chicago Cutlery Santoku-style knife in probably some junk steel, and a Spyderco Santoku in MBS-26 (basically more flexible, less stain resistant VG-10). I want to replace the Chicago Cutlery beater knife, and was looking at Western style knives like the Victorinox Fibrox/Swiss Classic/Swiss Modern, Mercer Genesis/Renaissance, and the Messermeister that's very similar to the Victorinox (completely blanking on the name right now). Are there any decent recommendable Japanese style knives in that $30-60 price range? Probably Gyuto or maybe Bunka, but I already have the Santoku, so the Gyuto would probably give me far more versatility in my knife options. I'm thinking carbon or stainless-clad carbon would be good in my situation.
Very informative, thanks! Where do you get your knife blade covers? Do you recommend any particular brand?
As for knife blade covers, any edge guards will do fine they don't have to be expensive.
As I take my knife to work with a knife roll the blade covers protects the edge from banging into other knives.
I prefer the Edge guards (Wusthof and Zwilling offer edge guards) where they have a fabric inside the cover and the outside is from plastic.
I prefer those over any other fancy saya's (While saya's look cool and great), the plastic slip on cover with fabric inside is just easier to put it on and off and does not take any extra space or bulk up your knife roll like a wooden saya does.
Hey! I just ordered two Grandsharp Damscus knives, a 9.8 Kiritsuke and 9.7 Slicing Knife, on top of the same type of filleting knife that should arrive this week. I'm going to use them on diferent slaughtering projects a 10 kilo rabbit, 3 home grown roosters at about 7-8 kilos, a young ram at probabil 25 kilos, modern meat specialised french pietrain boar at 170-180 kilos and a primitive lard romanian Mangalita sow at 100kilos. I'm very excited about the projects. I would love if you can make a video about Vg10, Damascus and how you should maintain this type of metal.
Thank you!
PS: Sorry for the long ramble, but your awesome chanel inspired me to buy these knives and start these projects. Had to say it!
Are you opening a butcher store? that is a lot of different meat!
As for the Kiritsuke, currently, I have limited use for them especially when they removed the beef tenderloin from the menu (Flambe beef nigiri). I loved using the Kiritsuke for that.
Right now I don't really like it for other purposes, what are you going to use the Kiritsuke for?
Have fun with the projects!!!
@@chefpanko for the young ram, i looked at some mercy halal videos on youtube, but i think i'm going to use a bolt cap stunner and for the bleeding i'm going to use the kiritsuke for slicing the throat. It is long enough to slice through it in two precise movements of the blade (back and forth) I am excited to see how Vg10 is to work with. I am going to receive thw Grandsharp Fillet and i'm gonna use it on the 10 kilo rabbit.
And the 24 cm slicing knife i'm going to sharpen the tip and to transform it into a stabing knife for the 4 pigs i have planned for december. .
@@chefpanko i'm planing to do it as a side hustle for working on european river cruises. And if it goes good a friend and I are planning to buy some land, get some european funds for develompment and start becoming suppliers for restsurants. I've met some good cooks in Bucharest and I have open doors. I am planing to preserve and improve primitive breeds and do traditional charcuterie. I'm going to film it all, maybe start a channel myself.
@@orlandolzr That sounds very interesting I don't think I have seen that side of the industry yet.
So filming and documenting your journey would be interesting!
A channel about it would also be interesting to see.
I did some youtube search but idk if it is the same it is called ''homesteading''.
Not sure if you plan to do that with your future channel but there are a lot of channels about it so you can get some ideas from them.
@@chefpanko i've seen a few, and i've taken inspiration from River Cottage, when I worked in the UK i've bought a 23 kilo bag of books, 17 books being from River Cottage about all the aspects of sourcing your own produce. What i plan to do is to combine romanian folklore with what I've read from there: traditions, animal husbandry, cooking and maybe in the near future some hunting and fishing. But i'm a long way till then. Either way, your channel has gave me the imbold to start it.
I use if a lot for onions red onions is hard job witch one is better
It depends on other factors too, such as how you prefer to slice, dice, etc. A chef's knife suits most tasks like slicing, dicing, and chopping.
You can choose a rounder belly profile or one with a straighter profile, typically found in Japanese-made Gyutos.
- A rounder profile is better for slicing in a rocking motion, while a straight profile is more suited for an up-and-forward slicing motion.
- A Santoku is a shorter knife, making it lighter compared to a wider chef's knife. Its rounded tip and shorter blade make it easier for precise slicing.
- If weight is a concern, such as when working in a restaurant where you don’t want to prep for an hour with a heavy knife, a Utility knife can be considered. For high-volume prep, many restaurants often opt for tools that can perform tasks faster.
I hope this explains it a bit and helps you in making a decision to find a knife that suits your preferred cutting style and preferences.
Hey ChefPanko,
great reviews and tips first of all :)
I am currently looking for a "Chinese Cleaver" style like knife, mainly for slicing, less for chopping bones though. I plan to use it as a workhorse in the kitchen, so it should withstand scraping up vegetables, being honed on a steel etc . Do you have any recommendations for me? My current price range would be between 30 - 100 €/$. I looked on aliexpress at the ones from Xinzou, but I'm uncertain if they fit the workstyle with their hardness of 60 HRC and above.
Greetings from Germany and with best regards!
There is a lot of confusion about the ''Chinese Cleaver''.
Chinese cuisine became more and more popular because of the tv shows that focussed on chinese cuisine. However, the western home chef's does not want to go through bones at home and wanted something sharper and lighter than the traditional Chinese cleaver. So they made a cleaver that is sharp from the heel to the tip. The traditional Chinese cleaver has a reinforced edge at the heel of the blade (you can see the sticker at 11:52 that indicates the reinforced edge at the heel).
Later they came with a ''Chinese vegetable cleaver'' since there was a lot of confusion they now are naming the lighter and sharper version ''vegetable cleaver''. They usually come with an HRC of 59 to 61. The Chinese vegetable cleaver is usually 7 inch (18cm). And I wonder why you want a Chinese vegetable cleaver since the Japanese have the Nakiri which is basically the same but than with less blade width and a lot lighter.
Since you want to use it as a workhorse that can withstand anything I can recommend the #1 knife brand in China called Shi Ba Zi. This is not only the number one brand but also the sponsor of a lot of Chinese culinary school students and tv shows. And a lot of Chinese restaurants use this brand. Unfortunately, nobody on CZcams or the western websites talks about it since it is not marketed towards the western market. They have different sizes with the same design so make sure to read the description before buying. they are good for anything and performs like a western chef knife like the Wusthof (out of the box sharpness is not as good as a Wusthof but it is definitely more durable).
For more information about the Chinese ''all-purpose'' cleaver, 'Chinese 'vegetable'' cleaver and Chinese ''Bone'' Cleaver you can read it on my website:
www.chefpanko.com/types-of-knives/ (The page is not complete yet but the information about Chinese cleavers is there).
A review about the Shi Ba Zi brand will follow. You can see the 2 out of 3 versions that I have in this video at 11:30 and 0:57.
PS: The ones on AliExpress is a lot more expensive than in your Asian supermarket if they sell it without any discount. So only buy it from AliExpress when they have a 40 to 50% discount. Or just visit a big Asian supermarket they probably will have this brand on display and the normal prices are around 20 to 40 euro max dependent on the version and size.
The one at 11:30 was bought at the Asian supermarket for 35 euro and the one at 0:57 was bought in China when I was on a vacation and converted to the euro it cost me 20 euro.
I also have a different version ''SHI BA ZI ZUO P01'' that one was 22 euro at the local Asian supermarket. (all the 3 knives has an HRC around 58).
The one at 0:57 is currently only sold in China.
Hope that this helps if you have more questions feel free to ask :)
@@chefpanko I had a Nakiri once, but the lack of blade height was annoying when moving large amounts of vegetables. Currently I own a german chef knife (F.Dick 1805) and a big cleaver for chopping (as well from F.Dick). I always liked the idea of a hybrid between a bench scraper and a knife, so I got interested in the chinese vegetable cleaver. Right now I'm stuck between the "SHI BA ZI ZUO F208B" de.aliexpress.com/item/32815883016.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.3.50902797H24gpR which would be the reasonable option,
or the XINZUO Cleaver out of the "Yi-Series" (www.aliexpress.com/item/33035899459.html?spm=a2g03.12010612.8148356.11.6f4c2d3cD3R63V) which is a little bit more on the aesthetic side, which is in contradiction to the workhorse. But I am just a hobby cook, so... I guess I'll wait around and get some more inspiration from your videos. And thank you for the detailed reply!
If you are looking for a Nakiri with more height then the Chinese vegetable cleaver is exactly what you are looking for. same sharpness from heel to tip. downside is that you can't go through frozen food, bones, cheese, hard bread like a baguette and other harder foods. (The Xinzuo you linked is exactly like that a Chinese vegetable cleaver in return you get better edge retention and sharpness). The Xinzuo one is made from the Chinese VG10 so not a real Japanese imported VG10. They are good and you won't notice the difference unless you expose the Chinese VG10 in water for 7+ hours so the rust resistance is very good. it is also 7inch so 18cm same as a Nakiri in length (slightly longer).
The "SHI BA ZI ZUO F208B" is longer around 23cm for the blade alone, you also want to adjust your cutting habit. Since the blade is sharper in the front and stronger more durable in the back you want to use the front for slicing (This is also the main reason why the Chinese chef's like their knives front heavy). Therefore your knuckles will not touch the heel side but the front side while slicing. Unlike the western chef's knife where the heel height is taller than the tip. This knife will also be heavier since it is longer but the spine thickness is usually thicker too for extra durability and for tenderizing meat. So basically a workhorse.
My next video will be a knife review of the 8-inch chef's knife from Findking. After that, I want to make the knife guide about Japanese knives before going to the Chinese and german knives.
So if you are waiting for the Chinese knife videos it might take a while :( so feel free if you have more questions so that you can decide earlier instead of waiting for the video.
@@MsYaku I got the Shi Ba Zi Zuo one. Xinzuo are very good quality too ( I have a few at home), but I recommend the Shi Ba Zi Chinese Chef Knife. What you should look as the biggest difference is the style of the handle. I personally like the faux cheapness of the Shi ba zi, it is the most interesting feeling knife I have, very comfortable. I don't know what steel Shi Ba Zi uses but it has the best edge retention I've seen. It feels like you are weilding a strong axe in your hand but it's very thin and agile. The 23 cm blade wasn't a big problem, cause I usually use a 24 cm Victorinox Fibrox Chef Knife as a workhorse, but I guarantee , once you get used to it, the big blade helps a lot.
@@orlandolzr thanks for the information! For christmas I got myself the Xinzuo cleaver, but it seems like I may get the Shi Ba Zi Zuo as well for less delicate stuff :D. The Xinzou is crazy sharp, but it feels rather brittle. At this point then I either have to stop buying knives or get more magnetic wood strips for the wall...
Let's say you worked at a fusion style restaurant, offering Asian-style and European dishes. Would you go for one all-purpose knife, or would you keep several different ones and switch depending on what food needs to be cut?
I will have an all-purpose knife but I also will switch depending on the prep work for that particular cuisine.
It makes the prep work a lot easier and faster if you have the proper knife for the task.
Which cutting styles are so particular to the Chinese cuisine that it "requires" the chinese all-purpose cleaver? Or asking the other way round: which Chinese cuisine cuts can you not do with a Japanese or European chef's knife?
You can basically do almost everything, however the knife will simply perform a task better than the other.
In terms of fish filleting, you can simply switch filleting styles.
For example when you do delicate work like making sashimi the Chinese cleaver is not suitable for the task since the knife will tear the flesh. (due to the shape vs the single bevel Yanagiba which has a concave to prevent tearing). the fish will degrade a lot faster since it was torn by the Chinese cleavers surface, however if you plan to cook the fish it does not matter. (Raw consumption for Sushi it is important to get the correct knife for the task to preserve freshness).
Example Video: czcams.com/video/gYhRFWhl42g/video.html
The slicing technique called ''Sogizukiri'' Slicing = basically maximizes the fish's surface area.
(in my case, the mango, if cut straight down the surface area is too small and can not be shaped in a nigiri, the rice would be visible and not gently covered like a blanket)
The blade is never pushed or cut but is drawn/pulled smoothly back without adding any pressure or downward force. (let the blade do the work for you).
''Sogizukiri'' also called ''Sogigiri'': is used to slice very thin fish, improving texture.
Since we want total control without any extra force, we sushi chef's use the fingertip grip, we can also feel how smooth the knife goes through the fish, and if we missed to pull out a pin-bone, we can stop and pull it out without risking chipping a high Rockwell (62+) blade. (if you add speed, then only add ''speed'' but don't at any ''pressure'' or ''downward force'' with speed).
How do you know you added too much speed and force?
Many restaurants now even prep nigiri and sashimi slices.
If the kitchen paper beneath the salmon is soaked in fish juices during the shift, you know you tore the salmon flesh. (Reduce speed, force, pressure, downward force, or your knife is dull and go back to a controlled speed; do not sacrifice quality for speed).
@@chefpanko Wow, thank you for your in-depth answer! :)
I know understand that slicing fish (especially for raw appliances) has different requirements to the knife and the technique.
On the other side, are there any cuttings techniques in the chinese cuisine which actually require the "cleaver"?
I have some oval and D shaped handles but no octagonal. I kind of assumed the gripping styles were very similar. You said you liked octagonal, but not oval. Why is that?
Good question, the oval shaped ones are not bad.
In short once you try something that works better than the other shape you tend to lean towards a preferance bias.
With the Oval shape it is just ok however an added D-shape gave me extra comfort and grip around my fingers.
With the Octagonal shape it adjust with my gripping style as I switch from a pinch grip and sometimes go back to a fingertip grip.
This all while adjusting very nicely around my palm and finger and adds extra grip.
USE
Thank you, it has been fixed with the latest video. I never realized I was pronouncing it wrong after someone pointed it out. :)
Is a gyuto knife good for cutting partially frozen pork meat before putting it in the meat grinding to make sausages? Personally I hate the rocking motion of western chef knives so am looking for alternatives
It highly depends on what you define as partially frozen. In general, you can say a lower Rockwell knife (60 or lower) will be less risky.
The lower the Rockwell, the lower the edge retention but, the more durable the knife edge.
Hi Chef Panko! Thank you for the video! It's very helpful. I am looking to buy a all rounder Chinese knifes for home cooking. Do you have a recommendation what Shi Ba Zi model i should get? Thanks!
I only have 3 versions and 1 is only sold in China, but the F208 is the one I like the most. Keep in mind that they have 2 diffrent length for that version.
F208-1 (longer standard lenght 228mm blade lenght): bit.ly/32bL3R7
F208-2 (Shorter 207mm blade lenght): bit.ly/38PZ21K
The second link is from a reseller since the Official Shi Ba Shi store don't offer the shorter version.
Both are orginal so I would suggest to buy the cheapest one in price if you go for the F208-1.
I will do a review of it once I have tested them for a longer period.
The other version I have: bit.ly/2wxMAFu
PS: Never buy at full price, 45% discount is the minimum you should look at when shopping on AliExpress if there is no sale I suggest to wait a few days since the sale is pretty much all year long. Shi Ba Shi is usually also sold in bigger Oriental supermarkets for pretty much the same price (sometimes $5 USD cheaper ).
@@chefpanko thank you!! The price is around $50 aud. I prob get the f208. Thanks again!
@@DongNguyen-nc1yt Your welcome hope you like the knife, don't forget you can probably find the same knife in the local/big oriental supermarket in your country.
Pretty much the same price or even cheaper, and you have the knife directly and a standard warranty with a physical store.
🇰🇷🇺🇲Japanese knife is very good👍👍👍
I’m looking for an all purpose knife. One that can go through meat,bones,veggies and fruit but one that doesn’t require a whole lot of maintenance. What would you recommend? Thanks
For an all-purpose knife, I would say,
Shi Ba Shi Chinese Cleaver:
What you should consider heavy, and big not good for transport.
Requires some adaptation especially if you are coming from a traditional German chef's knife.
The good things are great knuckle clearance, great for scooping up food.
The real traditional Chinese all-purpose cleaver is sharper at the front half portion and extra-durable at the heel to mid-portion.
The front is used for cutting and slicing. Mid-part is used for mincing (it is rounder at the middle part, don't restrict yourself for the handle grip you can grip the spine for extra speedy mincing). The heel part is used to go through bones. Scoring is possible but requires practice. The spine is used as a meat tenderizer.
Easy to hone the steel.
Front heavy no distal taper which means spine heel to tip is the same thickness.
Wusthof Ikon Classic:
Better handle design back heavy gripping style is the best at the handle for the newer upgraded handle version.
Primary cutting style rock slicing, everything that the Chinese cleaver can do except the following, lighter better for transport, less knuckle clearance not good for food transferring with the blade, can't be used as a meat tenderizer, has a distal taper which means the heel is sturdier for cutting trough bones er harder kind of food. front portion used for scoring and is sharper and thinner than the heel.
A good alternative but not better than the Wusthof in edge retention and sharpness Zwilling Pro Traditional Chef's knife.
Japanese knives not recommended if you are going to use it to go through bones and intend to use it as a true multi-purpose knife (chances of chipping is high when used on things like bones or frozen food).
As for fruit bigger fruits both the german and Chinese cleaver is suitable like watermelon, pineapple.
Things like apples, pear, etc a separate paring knife are fine. Even for avocado's the paring knife is advisable.
I recommend the Zwilling paring knife but any cheap paring knife like 5 paring knife for a dollar should be fine too you just replace them once it is not sharp.
I hope that that helps if you have more questions feel free to ask :)
What are the differences between a Chinese all purpose cleaver such as an 8" Dexter Russell or ShiBaZi and a Japanese vegetable cleaver like the 7" Kyotu Samurai? Are they totally different?
Since ''Dexter Russel'' and ''Kyoto Samurai'' have different knife styles, I'm not sure what you are referring too.
My guess for the 7inch vegetable cleaver from Kyoto is a Nakiri or a Santoku.
Both types are different, the same for the ShiBaZi that offer 3 cleavers styled knives.
ShiBaZi offers:
Vegetable Cleaver or also known as a slicer, not suitable for bones, but despite the name ''vegetable'', it can do all boneless tasks, including boneless meat.
All-Purpose Cleaver or also known as a Dual Purpose Cleaver, is used for smaller bones not bigger than chicken or duck bones. The heel is used to chop through small bones, and the front is used as a vegetable cleaver.
Chinese Bone Cleaver is used for bigger bones like spare ribs, suitable for bones bigger than chicken or duck bones.
The difference between all-purpose vs. vegetable is the weight and thickness, Vegetable cleaver is thinner and lighter but less impact resistance, therefore suitable for boneless produce.
For a complete list of different styles, you can visit my website, which explains the most popular knives:
www.chefpanko.com/types-of-knives/
The list is not completed yet, but once I have tested all knives, I will update the page with more information and pictures/videos.
Feel free to ask more questions.
@@chefpanko I have an old Dexter 8" cleaver, but it has dings in the blade and the handle isn't in the best shape after so many years and I'm looking to replace it. I ordered a Kyoto Samurai 7" cleaver because the finger bolster seemed to extend down the blade, an area where I get irritation on my index finger with pinch grip and the handle seems resin vaccuum stabilized so it seems maintenance free. However, the Kyoto cleaver edge seems to be shaped differently than my Russell. It has more rocker in the blade and push cutting is not really possible for making ginger match sticks, etc. Seems more like a symmetrical radius like an ice hockey skate where my Dexter seems flat from the center to the rear, with a curve only from the front tip to the center, more like an ice figure skate blade. That's why I ask if there is a difference between Japanese cleavers and Chinese cleavers. Seems the Chinese cleaver is good for down chopping with the middle, push cutting with the heel, and slicing with the curved tip. The Japanese cleaver seems like slicing at the tip and then rocker cutting like a Western chef knife. But I'm not sure if I just got a factory defect if they ground too much off the heel of the Kyoto cleaver.
@@cbpuzzle I see so all are revering to Chinese cleaver styled knives.
Dexter Russel, as far as I can see, is a Bone cleaver. The front part is used to chop to bones.
The handle on it is what most bone cleavers have and can be sanded down.
As for the Kyoku (only one I could find in a Chinese cleaver style), according to them, it is categorized as an ''all-purpose'' cleaver.
However, they use a VG10, which I will categorize as a slicer/ vegetable cleaver and not suitable to go through small bones.
What I find strange is that they are not using any softer cladding to reinforce the VG10; this will result in breaking the knife if they heat treat it beyond 60 Rockwell.
Not only do I find it strange that they use VG10 with no cladding, but they also heat-treated it to 56/58 according to their page, which is weird since the VG10 composition makes a less sturdy knife even when the heat treatment is 58 Rockwell. They should have opted for an AUS8 or AUS10 but definitely not VG10.
As for making match sticks with a slight half-moon/skater profile, you need an up and forward motion (you use the front part to slice).
Up forward down motion and repeat. Without the forward motion, you will not completely cut.
The handle looks strange to me, too, on the Kyoku. The diagonal cap seems like it has an abrupt design and aggressively goes down, leaving you with an edge that causes discomfort.
It is not you but the manufacturer and the person designing the knife. It looks like they went for a cool name, better aesthetic over the actual function of the blade.
The real difference between Japanese and Chinese cleavers are the manufacturers that understand the logic of a Chinese cleaver and who they cater too.
Kyuko, while it sounds Japanese, is made in China.
Japanese Chinese Cleaver Styled knives (Made in Japan) are usually a slicer design. You do not use any force but let the knife weight and profile do the work for you.
They go for longer edge retention and sharpness over durability.
Chinese Vegetable/slicer Cleaver has the same principles as the Japanese made ones but are usually sturdier.
ShiBaZi F208-2 is an example: czcams.com/video/feaXHT4yuLM/video.html
Dengjia: TM9080 is more in line with the Japanese cleaver: czcams.com/video/57ImLRYYiWA/video.html&t (modernizing the Chinese cleaver to suit more home cooks)
Example of the up and forward motion with a half-moon/skater profile from Dengjia knife:
czcams.com/video/57ImLRYYiWA/video.html
Example of the profile from the Dengjia knife:
czcams.com/video/57ImLRYYiWA/video.html
If you prefer less forward motion, then the F208-2 from ShiBaZi is more in line with your preference. Here is an example with a flatter front from ShiBaZi P01:
czcams.com/video/-Qmpo8_Lv14/video.html
With a half-moon profile, you need more forward motions, and plunge cutting is less useful.
Since I don't own the Kyuko or a Russel, I can't say much about the profile and what I think, so everything is based on the information and pictures on their store pages.
As for Kyuko IMHO, just looking at what they use as a core material without cladding makes me question their knife designer and the person in charge of that specific knife line.
Edit:
The profile that each manufacturer use will slightly differ from others, some have a half-moon profile, it does not mean it is bad just caters to a different preference of some cooks.
So there will be Japanese made Chinese cleavers that are either straight or have a half-moon profile it all depends on the manufacturer and the person designing the knife.
You as a consumer have the option to decide what you prefer but I also do think that they should show the profile more clearly in the pictures because it is sometimes hard to see how the profile is.
ShiBaZi is more straight but still has a very tiny belly in the middle.
Dengjia belly profile is more pronounced (I wish that they showed a side view on top of a cutting board ).
Hi ! Why do you say that the fingertip is the worst grip ??
I think you misheard something or misunderstood it due to my accent but let me explain.
I said: ''You probably have heard that the fingertip grip is the worst grip but yet many sushi chefs use the fingertip grip for the majority of the time''.
It is not a bad grip, but it is a grip that is used on certain occasions and the knife you are using.
Here an example the fingertip grip on a western chef's knife is taxing on your fingers (hence why many western chefs say never use a fingertip grip).
It put a strain on your finger because the western chef's knife is around 280 grams (8-inch chef's knife). The second thing is many western chefs use the rocking motion adding another extra strain on your finger.
Now in Japanese cuisine, especially Sushi chef's you see them using the fingertip all the time.
The difference is the motion that Sushi chef's use. We make strokes versus rocking motion.
When you filet a fish or make sashimi, you pull and let the knife do the work.
And then you have the Japanese knife that is lighter in weight and has a sharper performance approx 180grams (8inch Gyuto).
Not only is the knife skills different the blade is different too. The blade profile from traditional Japanese knives is a lot straighter and less suitable for rocking.
That's why I added that I personally switch gripping style all the time, and you should buy a knife that is suitable for your own primary gripping style.
Hope that explains the confusion. Feel free to ask more :)
Here is an example: czcams.com/video/gYhRFWhl42g/video.html of a video that I did explaining a specialized knife.
Thank you for your detailed response, dont worry about your accent, I understood all but i havent watched the whole video im stupid ahah
Dutch?
haha yup :)
What about onions 🧅
Is ridiculous to clean Global knife's handle with toothpick 😅. You can use sponge, brush or toothbrush everytime you clean your knife. Using toothpick to pickup something on the handle dots one by one its just nonsense.
I use Globak knife for 13 years and never have a problem or dirty handle. Maybe if you habe dirty handle something is wrong with that knife users. Like Japanese wa handle also food stuck at the tang of the handle much worse. But as a professional we need to clean them every time after we use the knife