Michaels MakerPlace - Is it Worth It - Will I Be Using Michael's Makerplace
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- čas přidán 19. 08. 2024
- In this video, I explain go over some of the terms and conditions of Michael's Makerplace and let you know my thoughts and if I'll be using it. Spoiler alert: It seems shady.
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Wow, another way for someone to take advantage of others who do not really read the small print before clicking to agree. Thanks so much lady for bringing this to attention for us.
You're welcome. When I looked into it after one of the viewers in my live mentioned it, I was like "what? this is insane". So, I just knew I had to put it out there because like, that's messed up haha. Though, I will say, I'm not 100% sure I've read it correctly because I'm not a lawyer, but I really feel like I've gotten the gist right and that it's sketchy.
Wow I was just considering joining.. thank you for this.
I'm not saying it's for sure a bad idea, but it seems sketchy currently, so I'm planning on waiting and watching what happens with it. I know it'll be YEARS before it even comes close to being a real opponent for Etsy anyway.
I was about to sign up till I saw your tutorial I clicked on it and wow I didn’t think Michael’s would be that devious and how they would word it. But yes I took it the way you did. I won’t be doing that. We put so much love and hour’s into what we make and let someone else claim it. I don’t think so.
It's already looking like a race to the bottom. You can tell people are really putting time into their craft, but there's so many that are underpriced for what the items are.
i used to be in the product design team for michaels corporate and you are wise to be skeptical of that legal language. You bet they look at everything for ideas for trend and product
How is nobody else talking about this? I'm shocked. Thank you for making the video.
I seen it in a Facebook group and then made the video after reviewing everything myself. There seems to be two groups of people. Well, three. One group thinks it says what I'm saying, but also think I'm misinterpreting and this verbiage is SOLELY to cover them if they want to use our images for advertising MakerPlace, and what not. The second group is where I fall and believe that they are PROBABLY NOT up to know good, but this verbiage makes us real uncomfy because we see the potential dangers in it. And then the third group just don't care one way or the other and are trying to use MakerPlace as a get rich quick scheme, the same way people get on etsy and list a few products and ask a week later why they have no sales and then quit haha. Either way, I'm a group 2-er. I could 100% be misunderstanding, but this verbiage is sketchy to me, so I'm planning to wait and watch.
My interpretation is that they are referring to images of your products. They can’t market your products without a photo of it. And they need to be able to edit the images in order to show them in their ads to drive traffic. I don’t think they are referring to the actual items that you sell.
I can see your logic there but they also refer to product ideas too, so it's still 🤨.
@@WorksofWhimsyCrochetCo I would definitely have a problem with that, for sure. If they are taking people’s designs to promote their own sales, that’s not right.
Sounds like Michaels is using crafters as part of their research and development team without having to incur costs.
Solid point. That's probably exactly it. And instead of being shady like shein and temu and other companies like that stealing from small creators. Michaels just built it into their T&C that it's okay and it's not actually stealing and that people can't take legal action when they do it lol.
I was thinking the same thing.
So glad I was looking into this more. What that fine print is saying you can post your work, but they reserve the right to copy, manufacture and distribute without paying you anything for your work. So basically they are WISH and all it's subcompanies.
Now, this is a hypothesis, but it makes sense... I feel like they're using us to market test products. If we make it, post it, and get a lot of sales on it, they'll know that's potentially a winning product. And then, they can essentially copy literally, or take the idea and modify it and add to it, to make an even better thing, and then sell it themselves.
@@WorksofWhimsyCrochetCo Yep, that sounds like what companies like this do on other platforms as well.
this is in the etsy user agreement too, it means they have the rights to anything you upload for advertising and they don't have to pay you for it, or even credit you for it. As far as derivative, anyone can make derivative works from your object and not pay you for anything except for the initial sale. This is pretty standard language for all venues.
Anyone CAN create derivative works from your stuff, but that could be argued as IP infringement.
@@WorksofWhimsyCrochetCoyou can argue it, but you don't always win. Derivative work is outlined in the first sales doctrine, which is law. FYI section 5 C-D on etsy TOS states the same thing as the Makerplace TOS does, only in layman's language. Etsy lawyers are a little more eloquent when they dumb it down for the masses. Amazon, ebay, RL (to an extent) & yes folks even shopify TOS (8.1.) this is not something exclusive to Makerplace. Not sure if GI has adopted this yet.
Yep. I worked in film and tv as talent. This is the same kind of agreement for your "likeness". That is your image in any sort of form for all time, to be broadcast by the production. Thank you so much for this. I started filling in the application, because it's MICHAEL'S! And the exposure! So I didn't even read the agreement. Then I stopped and asked myself, what's the skinny.
Omg! I'd love to hear about your work in TV and film, that's so fascinating. And yeah, Michaels... it sketches me out. And the more I think about it, the more sketched out I am. I think they're using creators like as as free market research and for product ideas, because think about it... who shops with Michaels? Crafters and small business owners who own craft based businesses. That covers majority of their clientele. All their ads about Makerplace seem to be targeting this group as well. Yeah, I feel like a lot of crafters don't necessarily buy from other crafters. So we're definitely NOT the target buyers for that website. Just the sellers. But even as an ETSY seller, I see ads all the time for Etsy targeted about buyers. You see what I'm saying? Michaels doesn't seem like they're actually trying to get buyers to the platform. Just other sellers.
It’s worded really shady but honestly this is the way it works. If I make an item and I put that item on the internet, anyone can copy it and sell it and there’s nothing I can do about it. They are just being upfront about it.
This is true. That's why I'm preferring to sit back and wait to see if they actually steal people's intellectual property/designs/products/etc.
yeah, i read legal stuff all day (not a lawyer either) but your interpretation is pretty spot on
I feel like it was. But maybe that really is the standard legal jargon and nothing sketchy is actually going on. But ik, for me, I'd prefer to sit back and watch what happens before I dive in.
I'm glad I found your review. I was about to sign up but NOT NOW! 🙅♀
In my opinion, Etsy is better. It at least has the traffic. Makerplace is new so the traffic isn't great.
I'm so glad I saw your video. I subscribed right away. Thank you for sharing this.
Thank you so much! Please keep in mind that I'm not a lawyer. Though, I have a small amount of education in law (I was pursuing a career as a paralegal back in 2018/2019 ish, but then I changed my mind lol... I have a weird resume haha), I COULD be misinterpreting this. But the wording made me uncomfy.
I was almost done with the application to sell. Photos taken, products finished etc. (I make amigurumi) and then I saw your youtube review. thank you. You saved me a lot of time and trouble. I wont be selling there.
Oh no! I just think it's too new and there are sketchy elements in their T&C at this point, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely necessarily. I'm just waiting and watching at this point.
I’m glad you posted this video, thank you for the advice. I’m so disappointed to hear this, I thought for sure Michael’s would be on the up and up to help people. I’m totally new to all this but wanted to try to sell my items somewhere and just found Marker place yesterday! I’ve worked full time my whole life and never had time to craft with raising a family. Now I have the time but can’t seem to find anywhere to sell my crafts. Craft shows seem to be non existent in the new state I’m living and the ones I have found are too outrageously priced to participate. Does anyone know of someplace that’s not going to rip people off… please Help!
No No No this is wrong that is not what that means, and is giving Michael’s a very bad name, so the first part with the content you submit, is giving Michaels the ability to sell your products on their website and their advertising, allowing the buyers/customers to also use your information such as Pin on Pinterest or copy, pasting or forwarding on the customers social media platform, such as Facebook or Instagram ect. or sent vis text or email to a friend or family member. We’ve all done this when we see something either we really like or someone we know would really like it so we share it. Michael doesn’t want to be responsible for having to pay for your product being advertised on other platforms/media
(so for example, somebody pinned your item or copied and pasted it to TikTok. You could’ve sued Michael’s because you didn’t say its OK and give them permission so this is literally Michael’s getting permission for this so they don’t get sued) so this is a good thing. Its free advertising for you hence the “Without Compensation.”. That’s why on Google Maps you always see peoples face blurred Google has to blur all the peoples faces out or they will get sued.
They’re just covering all the bases. And it says several times in their agreement that you have sole ownership and the rights to everything you create which you forgot to mention to your viewers and that alone is very contradicting and wouldn’t stand in court.
Hope this helps clear things up for you and others who have watched this.
Also, Attorney papers are awful as they try to cram as much description using every single example so you can’t come back and say, will you didn’t say this so they have to list them all and and they do this all in one sentence, that ends up being five or six lines long so by the time you get to the end of the one sentence can you forget what what’s a begining said. So very understandable. And I’m not sure if you didn’t read it all and posted this from that one therefore didn’t get a read. The other parts were talks about how you are the sole owner and own all the rights to all of your artwork again completely contradicting which would get thrown out in court
I understand they CLAIM it's for advertising, but what the T&C say does cover just advertising, "...license to use, display, perform, transmit, copy, modify, delete, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, sell and distribute such User Content and to incorporate the User Content into any form, medium, or technology, now known or hereafter developed, throughout the world, all without compensation to you. For this reason, do not send us any User Content that you do not wish to license to us, including any confidential information or any original creative materials such as stories, product ideas, computer code or original artwork that you do not wish to license to us."
They don't need the right to MODIFY, DELETE, CREATE DERIVATIVE WORKS FROM, just to advertise. They literally tell you not to give them product ideas or original artwork BECAUSE of these. See the quotes above for confirmation of this.
And I understand they say we keep "sole ownership" of our work but they say that and then follow it up with sentences like this "We do not claim any ownership rights to anything you post on the MakerPlace Site other than the license you have granted to us." But for everything we post, we've given them that license.
And it's funny that for content THEY post, it says "you may not reproduce publish, transmit, distribute, display, adapt, modify, creative derivative works from, sell or otherwise exploit in any way any of the Contents or the Site."
It's sketch, point blank. And think about it, Michael's customers are crafters and craft small business owners. So, having Makerplace be a thing doesn't make sense. Most crafters don't go out of their way to buy things they can make themselves. It's more likely Michaels is basically doing market research to see what crafters like us are creating so they can replicate it and sell it to make money.
But hey, you do you. If you're comfortable with these terms, by all means, you can join Makerplace. I'm personally not comfortable with these terms and will be choosing to abstain. And I said that I'm not a lawyer and could very well be interrupting things wrong, but it's not just me who is reading this and hearing what we're hearing. If you look through all the comments in this comment section I believe only one other person has had a similar line of thinking as you. BUT the rest have not. AND if you review the comments, I'm pretty sure in like ALL of them, I specifically clarify that I'm not a lawyer and I could be interrupting things incorrectly. But that doesn't change my feelings about it.
It's, in my eyes, too risky, AT THIS TIME, to use Makerplace. We'll see in a few years if Michaels steals content, ideas, art from any of the sellers on their platform. If they don't, perhaps I'll feel more comfortable with the prospect.
Jacki , thank you for this information .❤
You're welcome! I hope it helps get the word out there. Though, I must reiterate that this is my interpretation and that I could definitely be wrong because I'm not a lawyer, but to me, it really seems shady.
Wowser!! Thanks!!! I was just about to set up shop with them. You saved me.
I'd give it like a year. Like get through this fall season and see how things go when it's peak shopping time. You'll see if they're getting the traffic and if they are ripping off anyone's products to sell themselves. And if there's no major drama, next spring would be a good time, I feel like to get set up if that's really where you want to be!
Just like Amazon. That is why they offer you royalties in a percentage as low as 3%. I was wondering that when I saw the percentage they were giving you for your content that you created. I was like ‘Biatch, you need the freaking royalties’.
This subsection is about the content itself, not about the specific creations themselves. The issue is that this is a place for crafters to sell their art and they want to have rights to reproduce it in all mediums. My question is, if I crochet a character that I created and sell it on their website, does that then give them liscence to go and sell a crochet character in its likeness since they can use any medium? I don't think that clause is reasonable for a website you sell your art on.
It applies to the specific creations too, though, because of exactly what you just said. Pictures of our products would fall into the "content" category, and that means Michaels would be allowed to copy us and we'd be giving them permission to do so by joining. Our own crochet patterns would be content too, so they could steal them based on how their Terms&Conditions are written. Michaels says "You retain sole ownership rights to everything you create. We do not claim any ownership rights to your store or any content you post on it other than a non-exclusive license you grant to us under your Seller Agreement. The license you grant to us allows us to promote you, your store and your listings to our customers in our marketing to drive awareness and engagement of your store on MakerPlace." However, I call B.S. because this is what their Terms&Conditions actually says, "For any User Content you submit, you grant to Michaels a non-exclusive, sub-licensable, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, transferable right and license to use, display, perform, transmit, copy, modify, delete, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, sell and distribute such User Content and to incorporate the User Content into any form, medium, or technology, now known or hereafter developed, throughout the world, all without compensation to you. For this reason, do not send us any User Content that you do not wish to license to us, including any confidential information or any original creative materials such as stories, product ideas, computer code or original artwork that you do not wish to license to us. In addition, you grant to Michaels the right to include the name provided along with the User Content submitted by you; provided, however, Michaels shall have no obligation to include such name with such User Content. We are not responsible for the use or disclosure of any personal information that you voluntarily disclose in connection with any User Content you submit. You represent and warrant that you have all rights necessary for you to grant the licenses granted in this section. If you use the identity of a third party in the User Content, you represent and warrant that you have their written permission to do so. You further irrevocably waive any "moral rights" or other rights with respect to attribution of authorship or integrity of materials regarding User Content that you may have under any applicable law under any legal theory." You don't need to copy or create derivative works from my products to "advertise". And you don't need to say I "waive any rights with respect to attribution of authorship under any applicable law" if they weren't planning on stealing from the designers. Period. This whole things reeks of sketchiness.
@@WorksofWhimsyCrochetCoyes, it definitely does seem super shady. As a writer, there are pros to signing a contract like this, but my concern is whether it applies to just modifying the images and written works, or modifying and recreating the products themselves. I have experience with copyright law as I am a professional writer (not a lawyer, but have taken a copyright law class) and I read this to mean that they can modify the images and written words in any way they choose, not mass recreate and sell finished products. The products themselves are usually not the content, and the right to create a product design is not the same as the right to take an image of a product and do whatever with it. It is the images of them and the descriptions about how to do them that are considered content normally. I'm currently considering speaking to a lawyer and writing an article to hopefully give clarity on this matter, but have not found a publisher yet. And that is a bit on the back burner right now. But you are right, something feels shady and unethical here. The language seems deliberately vague about whether "content" refers to the images and written words on the site or whether it also refers to the actual products themselves. Usually "user content" just means the digital assets you submit, not the products you are selling themselves. Like they can use the photos of your products however they want, but it may be that they are not saying they can recreate your actual products. My main concern is the definition of "user content." That definition will say it all. I am still considering using their program to get traffic to my new website that I am building by writing short how-tos on there. I would not sell on there though, because it is too vague and shady. I appreciate that you brought this to light, because I would have been devastated if my art was used without crediting me and I don't really understand the tos. Thank you very much!
I happened to click on your video bc it was listed beside Michael's video on youtube. I hadn't yet read the seller Agreement, and was concerned about joining MakerPlace. After I read it, though, I was relieved that I didn't see anything that resembled what you described.
Section 3 of the agreement (Product Content and Trademarks) states: You retain sole ownership rights to everything you post on the MakerPlace Site.
The agreement currently on Michael's website was updated July 7, 2023, maybe you saw an earlier version or were provided incorrect information. Also, to clarify about the classes - they have to be offered on Zoom, not from a link on another website.
Before getting angry at Michael's, anyone who is interested in selling on the platform should read the agreement themselves.
It's not in the seller agreement. It's in the Terms and Conditions. Key paragraphs are: "Welcome to Michaels.com. These terms and conditions (this “Agreement”) apply to your use of the Michaels website located at www.michaels.com and all other sites, services, applications, products, features and tools that we make available online (collectively, the “Site”), except where we expressly state that separate or additional terms apply for certain services as outlined in this Agreement or by any incorporated terms and policies. Third party Marketplace sellers, or sellers on MakerPlace by Michaels, are further governed by the terms of their respective Seller Agreement, which are incorporated into this Agreement by reference. As used in this Agreement, “Michaels”, “us”, or “we” refers to Michaels Stores, Inc. and its subsidiaries and affiliates."
This means anything in Michael's T&C also applies to the MakerPlace website. But also, the people who use MakerPlace also have to abide by the seller agreement.
"For any User Content you submit, you grant to Michaels a non-exclusive, sub-licensable, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, transferable right and license to use, display, perform, transmit, copy, modify, delete, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, sell and distribute such User Content and to incorporate the User Content into any form, medium, or technology, now known or hereafter developed, throughout the world, all without compensation to you. For this reason, do not send us any User Content that you do not wish to license to us, including any confidential information or any original creative materials such as stories, product ideas, computer code or original artwork that you do not wish to license to us. In addition, you grant to Michaels the right to include the name provided along with the User Content submitted by you; provided, however, Michaels shall have no obligation to include such name with such User Content. We are not responsible for the use or disclosure of any personal information that you voluntarily disclose in connection with any User Content you submit. You represent and warrant that you have all rights necessary for you to grant the licenses granted in this section. If you use the identity of a third party in the User Content, you represent and warrant that you have their written permission to do so. You further irrevocably waive any "moral rights" or other rights with respect to attribution of authorship or integrity of materials regarding User Content that you may have under any applicable law under any legal theory."
So, you own everything except what you grant them the rights too, but anything you've put on the website you've granted them rights too.
And I know the next argument is that this is all standard faire. But check out what they say about THEIR STUFF:
"Content
All content posted on the Site by Michaels, such as text, graphics, logos, images, audio clips, video, data, music, software, and other material (collectively “Content”) is owned or licensed property of Michaels or its supplies or licensors and is protected by copyright, trademark, patent, or other proprietary rights. The collection, arrangement, and assembly of all Content on the Site is the exclusive property of Michaels and protected by U.S. and international copyright laws. Michaels and its suppliers and licensors expressly reserve all intellectual property rights in all Content.
License
The Site and the Contents are intended solely for personal, non-commercial use. You may download or copy the Contents and other downloadable materials displayed on the Site for your personal use only. No right, title or interest in or to any downloaded Content is transferred to you as a result of any such downloading or copying. You may not reproduce (except as noted above), publish, transmit, distribute, display, adapt, modify, creative derivative works from, sell or otherwise exploit in any way any of the Contents or the Site."
So funny how they own their stuff, indefinitely, and we can't publish, transmit, distribute, display, adapt, modify, create derivative works from, sell, or otherwise exploit anything on THEIR website. But they can create derivative works from anything WE put on their site.
I'm not saying they would. HOWEVER, it's clear that all the protection in these Terms & Conditions goes to Michaels, NOT the artists.
wow, thank you for sharing this and im glad I saw it. I just signed up for an account yesterday.Looks like im deleting it today.
Like I said, I could definitely be wrong. But I'm seeing other things I'm not loving. Like products that blatantly violate very known trademarks. This is a struggle on Etsy too. And the owner of the trademark has to be the one to report it on Etsy so that product gets taken down. Of course there are HARDCORE Disney fans, so those kind of people are more likely to buy a crochet disney character than someone else's perfectly unique crocheted princess. It's unfair that they have that advantage that they're not even SUPPOSED to have. And I'm already seeing the same thing on MakerPlace. And my guess is, it'll be a whiiiiile before that's policed.
Actually the classes on maker place are via zoom.
Oh, interesting, that's good to know
What i hate the most in the contract is you dont get paid right away. You have to wait
Yeah, I feel that. Etsy, you can set it up to have a payment every time you have a sale, or once a week, or whenever.
Thank you so much for sharing this knowledge with us. I was so excited and wanted to enroll. Since I am the kind of person that doesn’t read the agreement documents I wanted to check what others said about this site. Thanks G-d I found your video
You're welcome. Though, I tell everyone, I'm not a lawyer, so I could be interpreting this incorrectly. But it sounds suspicious to me.
You are right in your interpretation. I read it the same way. No go for me. I will not sell my works on that web site until they change that wording. This is equivalent to swiping your buyers' email addresses for their own purpose$$$$$$. Thank you for the video review.
Yeah, it's very concerning. And when asked, they said "its for advertising our store". I'm sorry? Uh, if you were only going to be advertising my stuff/my store, why did you include that you were allowed to create derivative works from my own stuff, without compensating me, in the terms or conditions
This is the same as every other marketplace. This is not uncommon. Mostly this is for marketing purposes. Y’all quite being haters ! Geez !! And no Micheals doesn’t want y’all stuff! It’s mostly for marketing purposes. They have to say that to protect themselves, but I can promise you they don’t want your stuff. lol you’re a little full of yourself !!
You do realize there are NUMEROUS COMPANIES that have ripped off creations by small creators, right? But, hey, if you want to sell on Makerplace, have at it!!!
I don’t need your permission. I’m just saying this is common verbiage. Have you ever been ripped off by a company like Michael’s? Or Etsy? Have they taken your creation and made it their own? I wouldn’t stress. Y’all just trying to get views and comments on You tube! Congrats! It worked!
Yup, ya caught me, I'm only here for the views I get. Tons of bigger companies rip off designs of small creators. Shein for instance has done this A TON of times. But they're not the only ones. I don't think you understand what Etsy is... Etsy doesn't sell their own products, they're just a market place for creatives to sell THEIR products, so there is no chance of Etsy ripping off a small creators work, so even if their verbiage is similar, there's no danger. HOWEVER, let's stop and think for a second about what Michael's is... Michael's is a craft store, primarily, and their target customer are people who create/craft. But they also sell finished products/decor which are a lot of times impulse buys made by us creators who stop in to pick up supplies. But it's not like HomeGoods. Regular people don't just go in to decor shop. Now, Makerplace is supposedly for us creatives to sell to the non crafty customers who can't make the thing themselves. However, Michael's doesn't really have non crafty customers. It's all people who do the crafting the buy from them. So where are these customers supposedly going to come from? EVERY SINGLE PERSON I KNOW who has seen an ad for MakerPlace is a creator NOT a customer that would buy products off of Makerplace. I've not seen ONE SINGLE AD from Michael's advertising to the actual customer, just to creators to try to get them to come be a seller. Not necessarily a problem, but when you overlap that with the fact that the verbiage says that you only own stuff you DON'T grant them rights too, but if you put it on their site, you've granted them rights to it. It's potentially sketchy. I'm not saying it's worded like this because they plan to rip people off, but you're naive if you don't recognize the potential danger here. Point blank. The way that's written it seems like Michael's is potential using Makerplace to have 1000s of creatives create products to sell and then they get to review the data and see what works and what doesn't so they can make their own "derivative works" and put it in their stores as a finished product. Again, not saying they will, but the potential is 1000000000% there and there is no protection against that written into their Terms and Conditions.
I don't trust that. Sounds like they can basically take your art content and use it to their benefit without paying the artist.
Yeah. that's definitely the concern.
Now I'm wondering if FB Marketplace has the same sort of thing under their Terms and Conditions.
I'm unsure. I don't sell my amigurumi through marketplace, so I've never looked into it.
I honestly had higher hopes. This terms and conditions does claim complete ownership of any creative ideas we produce. What corporate greedy moron thought creatives would be okay with this business model. Thank you though for exposing makers place. Better now than before it really gers off the ground. If it does
I don't think they expected people to read the T&C because honestly, I never do lol. This was brought to my attention by a fellow crocheter in one of my live videos, and after doing research, it turns out she was right in her interpretation, because I, and others, have interpreted it the same way. Super sketch.
For the how tos I would use one of Michael’s patterns. They already own the shyt. F with me if you want to. I know how to get around the impossible.
That's true, I suppose lol.
At 3:30 - you nailed it spot on - you give them the rights to your ORIGINAL work
I mean, that's definitely how I took it. And even if they didn't MEAN that, that's sketchy haha.
I'm glad I watched this. Etsy took my sign up fee told me congrats my shop was ready so I listed 3 items (handmade purse) within hours my shop was suspended. LITERALLY hours! No email explaining anything. I appealed, and was told I was a security threat to etsy. I sew purses. Can never try to have a store again. Now this video. They are just using people.
Hey, I understand your frustration, but Etsy does this to ALL new shops. You have to contact them, NICELY, on LinkedIn and ask for a manual review of your shop. They make newbies jump through hoops because it limits the scammers. And you'll, even if you're upset with them, want to get your shop unsuspended, because it wasn't just your shop that was suspended, you've been IP banned, which means you also can't shop as a customer now either. But I promise, it's fixable. I know it's not right but lots of people get their store reopened and go on to have successful shops.
I sold something on this and it says once the item is delivered they pay in 14 days. It's been a month and I haven't seen my money. I emailed them to dispute it and the auto reply was there beta will take 14 days for a reply. Omg.
Omg, seriously!?! Any update on this!?! And I'm so sorry about your loss on this, that's terrible.
I think this means they can put your pics and advertise and use your photos without paying you royalties. Not fair I agree. But Etsy does this too. However there is a clause that you fully own your merchandise and have the right to revoke your items and cancel the agreement at any time. If you plan to create how tos or do classes it’s a big lose. they are free to run with that content and can make money off it. Say you create how to make a bunny dish. They can run with your idea and you get nothing for it but affiliate payment for products purchased through their website. In closing if you have tangible items and are willing for them to use your stuff to advertise, maybe with trying. There is still to this date a lot of unanswered questions
Jacki you’re right about pricing being very low. Alot of people undercut themselves badly when selling.
The terms aren't clear for sure. I'm not 100% saying that they're up to no good. I personally love Michaels and shop theyre regularly, so I don't necessarily believe they're out to get us. BUT the terms seem to benefit them more than it benefits that.
For sure! I hate that. It tells people that handcrafted items are just something we make as a "hobby" and not as a business. But oh, nay, nay! Your girl is trying to make money!
I just pulled up the contract and I'm not reading the same thing you are. I know there was an old version floating around awhile back.
I don't know what you're reading, but I'm reading the Terms and Conditions for MakerPlace by Michaels right on their website. It still reads "For any User Content you submit, you grant to Michaels a non-exclusive, sub-licensable, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, transferable right and license to use, display, perform, transmit, copy, modify, delete, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, sell and distribute such User Content and to incorporate the User Content into any form, medium, or technology, now known or hereafter developed, throughout the world, all without compensation to you. For this reason, do not send us any User Content that you do not wish to license to us, including any confidential information or any original creative materials such as stories, product ideas, computer code or original artwork that you do not wish to license to us. In addition, you grant to Michaels the right to include the name provided along with the User Content submitted by you; provided, however, Michaels shall have no obligation to include such name with such User Content. We are not responsible for the use or disclosure of any personal information that you voluntarily disclose in connection with any User Content you submit. You represent and warrant that you have all rights necessary for you to grant the licenses granted in this section. If you use the identity of a third party in the User Content, you represent and warrant that you have their written permission to do so. You further irrevocably waive any "moral rights" or other rights with respect to attribution of authorship or integrity of materials regarding User Content that you may have under any applicable law under any legal theory." under the subsection User Content. I inquired with them and they said it's to advertise for you. HOWEVER, you don't need to modify, delete, create derivative works from, sell and distribute all without compensation to me to simply advertise lol. Here's a link so you can check it out yourself. www.michaels.com/terms-and-conditions
I may have misheard what you were reading. I was trying to follow along with you with the copy I had. It would be nice to have an attorney's opinion on this as legal speak is so tricky!@@WorksofWhimsyCrochetCo
@makersunify Agreed. I think an attorney would be helpful to clarify this. And it's probably definitely hard to follow because it's in legalese lol. But it's definitely not adding up for me so all I can say is, "This gets a no from me. And I will not be using the platform."
This is the text I just found which is different?? :
You retain sole ownership rights to everything you post on the MakerPlace Site. When you post any photos or videos of a listing on your store, we need your consent given below to display those to Customers. We may need to resize or enhance them. We may also want to feature your items and images, or your store name and images to help promote your store and the MakerPlace Site. To allow us to do that, you hereby grant us and our affiliates, and our service providers and marketing partners, a non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide right and license (a) to publish, reproduce, display, distribute, transmit and otherwise use MakerPlace Seller’s name, store name, trademarks, service marks, and logos (“MakerPlace Seller Marks”), and (b) to publish and perform, reproduce, distribute, transmit, display, edit, modify, store, create or prepare derivative works of, and otherwise use, commercially or otherwise, all MakerPlace Seller Product Content, classes or how-tos you post, in each case in connection with the MakerPlace Program Platform (including without limitation advertising, marketing and promoting the Products, other products, or the MakerPlace Program through the MakerPlace Sites, third party websites, e-mail, social media or any other medium). We and our affiliates may permit Customers, other users of the MakerPlace Sites, and other third parties to share and post MakerPlace Seller Product Content on their websites, applications, and social media outlets. You agree you will not have any claims against us regarding rights of publicity, reputation, attribution or integrity for using your MakerPlace Seller Marks or the content described above, even if personal information you have provided is included. You also recognize our legitimate interest in using it, in accordance with the scope of this license. We do not claim any ownership rights to anything you post on the MakerPlace Site other than the license you have granted to us.
I pulled what I read directly out of the terms and conditions on the maker place websites right under "user content". I don't know where your snippet came from, but it's similar in some regards. However, the biggest problem is they don't need to "create derivate works from" our content to advertise. And in my version, it said "all without compensation to you".
@@WorksofWhimsyCrochetCo i did finally find what you were talking about under the Micheal's website, not MakerPlace? Unless I am still looking at the wrong place?
"third party Marketplace sellers, or sellers on MakerPlace by Michaels, are further governed by the terms of their respective Seller Agreement." -this is included in the Micheal's general terms and conditions at the top
It does seem like they are truly covering their own a$$, while taking your product likenesses, evolving patterns, and can recreate anything of yours without giving anyone any credit except Michael's. Thank you for pointing this out I was researching potentially selling on Michael's, but now, I'll pause. I want to own my own pictures (even if they aren't the best) and be able to create my own things my own way and make them mine to sell, not to create the "model" for someone to create cheap knockoffs to make tons of money without being able to reap the benefits of my work.
That's how I feel too. I plan on sitting back and watching how the platform develops before I jump on into it.
You retain sole ownership rights to everything you post on the MakerPlace Site. When you post any photos or videos of a listing on your store, we need your consent given below to display those to Customers. We may need to resize or enhance them. We may also want to feature your items and images, or your store name and images to help promote your store and the MakerPlace Site. To allow us to do that, you hereby grant us and our affiliates, and our service providers and marketing partners, a non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide right and license (a) to publish, reproduce, display, distribute, transmit and otherwise use MakerPlace Seller’s name, store name, trademarks, service marks, and logos (“MakerPlace Seller Marks”), and (b) to publish and perform, reproduce, distribute, transmit, display, edit, modify, store, create or prepare derivative works of, and otherwise use, commercially or otherwise, all MakerPlace Seller Product Content, classes or how-tos you post, in each case in connection with the MakerPlace Program Platform (including without limitation advertising, marketing and promoting the Products, other products, or the MakerPlace Program through the MakerPlace Sites, third party websites, e-mail, social media or any other medium). We and our affiliates may permit Customers, other users of the MakerPlace Sites, and other third parties to share and post MakerPlace Seller Product Content on their websites, applications, and social media outlets. You agree you will not have any claims against us regarding rights of publicity, reputation, attribution or integrity for using your MakerPlace Seller Marks or the content described above, even if personal information you have provided is included. You also recognize our legitimate interest in using it, in accordance with the scope of this license. We do not claim any ownership rights to anything you post on the MakerPlace Site other than the license you have granted to us.
I'm waiting to see how true that is. I've seen companies say things and then steal from small creators who are just that, small. So they can't do anything about having their ideas, designs, products stolen.
And the way there T&C are written, it covers both scenarios. Honest scenarios where they're just using pictures and things to advertise for us and to help us sell more. But they're also written in a way that makes it clear they CAN rip off our ideas. "We do not claim any ownership rights to anything you post on the MakerPlace Site other than the license you have granted us." That license applies to everything. Period. So they can do whatever they want. Good or bad.
I appreciate the heads up and whoops there goes another opportunity. Blatant admitted thievery.
Check out Go Imagine. It's newer too, but not AS NEW and they're seeing steady growth, even though they're still considerably smaller than Etsy.
@@WorksofWhimsyCrochetCo Thanks.Seems complicated and not sure I want a stripe account .Still looking at it though.Hoping improvements have occurred since your video was published 11 months ago.
HI Jacki - that was interesting! I'm not in the US but obviously hear a lot about Michaels on you tube. If I was considering this it makes me feel like it is not clear at all - because, yes, I hear it the same way as you but that just doesn't seem right. Maybe for Kits? You know like other places do where they sell your pattern with a kit - so, yeah. I guess then I would let them have the rights to the pattern & someone might then look for my other patterns if they liked liked the kit. But it doesn't sound right for just selling MY stuff & they can own all the rights? I wouldn't do this unless I had a lawyer who could explain it to me🤣🤣❤
Yeah, absolutely. Like it really sounds bad, but surely Michaels, a company meant to sell supplies to small creators wouldn't actually be putting it in their terms & conditions that they have full rights to adapt, create derivative works from, sell and distribute OUR stuff without compensating us. But... also... that's really what it says, so I just don't get it.
Do you know the minimum age to sell on Michaels? Can you be under 18 but older than 13 and sell with your parent/guardian?
I would assume 18. HOWEVER, I want to be clear that I don't actually know.
Thank you so much. 😮
It really is mind blowing. They say it's just to advertise, but I don't think they need as many of those liberties if it's just to advertise for our shops.
Thank you so much for the video! Just wondering, do you have your own website? I'm thinking of starting one of my own for my art.
Yes, through squarespace, I love squarespace. Though there's still not a ton on my website yet lol.
it’s weird, but that song is FIRE
What song?
that weird ad “respect the homemade”
One use I love for ChatGPT is to put legal jargon in layman's terms, in case I am misinterpreting them. ChatGPT said it loud and clear (😂):
"What Michaels Can Do with Your Content:
They can watch, change, or remove your content if it breaks the rules.
They can use your content in many ways (like displaying, copying, or modifying it) without paying you. This means they can use it forever, anywhere, and in any form.
Don’t send anything you don’t want them to use this way, especially private or original creative work.
They might use your name with your content, but they don’t have to.
They’re not responsible for any personal information you choose to share."
With all that being said, no thank you. I'll pass.
I love chatgpt but I never even thought about using it in this context. But this is like a concise way of saying exactly what I heard when I read it too. There are obviously a few people in this comment section that believe it's JUST in the context of advertising, but I've said it once and I'll say it again, their terms feel like it goes past the point of "just helping our shops by advertising for us". Of course, I always follow this up with I'm not a lawyer, so I could be wrong but it feels sus.
And copy it to reuse it.
I would put a watermark on all the artwork, no matter the platform! Then nobody can steal your shit!
I feel like I remember replying to this, but in case I didn't, this is a good practice, but not totally infallible as there are software thingies that can remove watermarks easily and cheaply.
So let me see if I understand? A majority of my craft supplies are bought at michaels or Joann’s (owned by one company but 2 separate brick and mortars) so I give them my money. Then I take the time to make something beautiful, and if I put it on there site where I’m sure they will charge me more fees AND they can claim it as there own possibly reproduce it and resell it in their chain stores and give me no compensation whatsoever. Oh so are we free michaels designers now? It’s disturbing we initially buy supplies then when we sell them their hand is out again and if it’s good enough the creation becomes there’s? SMH unfricknbelievable very disheartening. DO BETTER Michaels!!!😨🤑🤮🤢
I mean, that's kind of how I read it. According to them, because you bet your bippy I asked, that section is just there to cover them so they can advertise OUR work and OUR storefront. But like, my dude, why do you say you can create derivative works from or sell and distribute my stuff all without compensation to me? You don't need to adapt my stuff or create derivative works from my stuff simply to promote my stuff. Oh, nay, nay. You lie! That being said, they didn't technically say they WOULD do those things, just that they could and that we could take no legal action if they did. Red flags, though, amiright?
You are absolutely correct! Thank you kindly for bringing this to my attention, I don’t always read the small print. You better believe I will now! Thanks again for the informative information. Love your videos, keep em’coming, I’m here for it!!
Thank you, thank you and thank you!!!!!
you're so welcome!
Thanks for letting me know. It sounded to good to be true
It's hard to say if it is too good to be true. But it's definitely got the makings to be too good to be true. So I'm taking the wait and see approach.
@@WorksofWhimsyCrochetCo Well they just lost my business I was going to give it a shot but got all the way to the end and they declined my application all because I put my DL# in wrong and when I corrected it they just said your denied so if you ever talk to people about this again warn them of this problem
They changed the wording. You have to give them permission to your stuff so that they can advertise on your behalf. But if you know anything about Michaels and their IT department, its a bit of a joke if you have issues. I've had my shop for a few months, decided to rebrand and the troubles started. I have been waiting 12 days to get it situated. I put my shop on vacation so that I would not have to worry about missing any possible orders. I will not be taking my shop off vacation and will be closing it and not even both with Michael Makerplace. It is not worth the hassle. I am also a former employee so I have a lot of anger going on right now. I will no long bother with any part of the company.
Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear that! That's so terrible! I hope you find other avenues for your business!
Very confusing. Consult with an attorney.
I agree lol. I wish I could afford an attorney, because you bet your bippy I'd take in Michaels T&C for clarifications. But at this point, I can only go off of how I perceive it, so it's going to be a no from me. And because this is potentially very detrimental, I feel like it needed shared with you guys, but I did make it clearly that this was just my interpretation in case I am understanding it wrong. However, it does seem like a lot of us are perceiving it the same way, which means it's kind of on Michaels, not us, to do the clarifying. You know what I mean.
I'm not a lawyer either and am not on MakerPlace, but you read "For user submitted content, Michaels welcomes your reviews, comments and other communications, photos, videos and any other content that you submit through or to the site". Now to me, communication is just that and if you submit a "how to" video that would fall under communication. But I don't think products you've made or patterns you've designed would fall under communication. It also read "non-exclusive" as far as Michaels has the right to re-publish any review, comment, photo, video without needing to give credit. And they would need that to be able to use a video "How To" or to make reviews and comments public. But the "non-exclusive" part means that the person submitting can also use their communication product (if a video or photo) somewhere else as well.
I read that too. The issue is, there are different areas where different things are said about user submitted content, so it makes it hard to access what they mean and what they can do.
In other yarn news, JoAnn is featured in business news and if you rely on products sold by them, they may be in corporate trouble. BTW, what you read about the new shop on Michaels, sounds a little like they are hijacking designs!
Omg what's the tea on JoAnn's. I buy like the vast majority of my blanket yarn from there!
@@WorksofWhimsyCrochetCo they are barely avoiding bankruptcy ! Profits are lagging way behind expectations! Everyone has been complaining about cost of yarn, but we evidently are still not paying enough! I think it is the shipping
@@oldmomma56 oh gosh if joanns goes down i'll be very sad. Theyre the main yarn store I go to
I for one, focus on buying yarns from JoAnn and Premier websites
unless I happen to stop by Hobby Lobby or Walmart and the word”SALE” comes up! Then it is , “Every man for himself!”
It sounds like that is speaking about your content for a class. If you post a scarf how would they even get it and distribute it? That doesn't make sense to me.
Crocheter's don't just sell finished makes, they sell patterns. It's super easy for them, if they wanted to, to sell a pattern and sell it as their own. And as far as finished makes go, it's super easy for them to steal and replicate a design. Not saying they would, but they could.
right. I could see them stealing a pattern or design but if you just make and sell a beanie for example, they can't take it.@@WorksofWhimsyCrochetCo
Sounds like the same contract the music industry tries to get you to sign. It's called a "deal with the devil"
I was leaning towards trying out MakersPlace. Thanks to your video, they can count me out! I'm sticking to my own website and advertising it more rather than sprinkling my blood n sweat into someone else's fat bank account.
Just who exactly owns Michael's?🤔
Great. Just sent myself down a rabbit hole!😮
For those that like to nerd out seeing the assimilation for what it is:
Vanguard is the largest stockholder in Michael's (of course), but it should also be noted that one of Jeffery Epstein's buddies, Leon Black was forced to step down from CEO due to his 'associations' with Epstein. It does not end there. Although Black stepped down, he still has 13%
@@christylove5807 yikes. 😳(And people b*tch about supporting Hobby Lobby...because the founders are practicing Catholics...?! 🤨I'll definitely take that over supporting Vanguard or kiddie fiddlers, personally.)
Yikes on bikes. I had no idea. This could be a very fascinating rabbit hole. Though, admittedly, I'm scared to dig too far because if I realize I have to stop buying from michaels, it's going to knee cap me as that's like one of three yarn stores near me. And by near, I mean, I still have to drive about an hour to get there lol. So if I stop buying from michaels, it would be hard on my business.
MICHAELS STORES PROCUREMENT COMPANY, INC. (CORPORATION; DELAWARE, USA) They are registered with USPTO.gov
That's what I heard. That's crazy I would have expected more from them
It's definitely concerning. I mean, of course I hope I'm wrong. I like Etsy personally, but it's not without its issues, so it would be nice to have an alternative. There are small platforms that creep up here and there, but to me, they're so small and like not widely known enough to put in the effort. However, Michaels is a very notable company comparatively, so them offering a platform like this could have been exactly the alternative we needed. But dang, not like this.
Wow
Thanks for the heads up. I will not be using Michael's Maker's place. Honestly it sounds like a big scam to me. Just one more thing to not be impressed about Michael's.
One person said that it feels like Michaels is basically using Makerplace to do some product research for free. And, I mean, I can see that. That really doesn't sound all that far fetched to me.
This make me nervous because a small business can't ever sued or get lawyers. Why? Because small time businesses artists do not make enormous money as big name "retails".😬
Yeah, there's not much we can do to defend ourselves if we ever needed too. It made me nervous too so I'm sitting back and watching. I'll give it a few years and see if there's any talks of them ripping off artists work and by then the platform will be a little more established so THEN I would be a good time to check it out.
Your interpretation is spot on.
I'm interesting to sit back and see where this will end up this time next year. To track their growth and all that.
I'm glad I watched this. Ummm no thank you Michael's
I'm not 100% against MakerPlace, but these T&C did make me uncomfortable, so I plan to sit back and watch for the next couple of years and see how it goes.
No the class is on their site.
Oh, well good. That's at least more convenient.
It's like they're using your handmade items to profit from your hard work. Yarn is not cheap and it seems to me that we buy your yarn and create a project for you "Michael's" and we get nothing out of it. Shm
It isn't just the handmade items, the ownership includes the intellectual material -- that means the tutorials, how-to documents, or videos for classes that you produce and share on the Michaels Maker Place platform.
Yeah, I get that they have to get SOMETHING out of it, BUT the way this is worded, they can absolutely get EVERYTHING we give them out of it, if they wanted too. I'm not saying they would, but with this verbiage, it's possible.
Has anyone called Michael’s Corporate office to ask why they are asking us for our hard work? Just like the first 2 comments suggest, maybe there’s a reason.
I have not, but I'd love to hear the result if you get around to doing so!!!
Highway robbery 😮
I will say, I hope I'm wrong about this because it would be nice to have a rival to Etsy.
Thanks so much for your excellent review. I concur with everyone else. I was going to open a shop but after seeing this video...I'll pass. Thanks again!! SMHH
Remember, I could be wrong, but it's hard telling. I really wish they were more clear upfront about what's what. Though, I don't think it matters really because who are Michael's customers? Crafters like you and I. However, we're unlikely to buy because some things we can make ourselves. I've only seen ads looking for sellers, but not buyers to the platform.
It is what is happening on every sponsored platform. the only way to control your products, for the most part, is to open your own website and market it yourself. Run away FAST from all of these platforms.
There is a benefit to some of these platforms. Etsy specifically had 95 million buyers shop on the platform in 2022. Though, it's worth noting that I'm still only ONE of 7.5 million sellers. HOWEVER, people go to etsy to buy things. Not everyone goes on the internet with the intention to buy and then you're competing with every other website INCLUDING etsy. If you make over $10000 in a year, Etsy forces you to do offsite ads (where they'll take 15% of the revenue from the sale) but if you make less than $10000, you can still choose to opt into offsite ads (and those are google ads if you didn't know. So etsy products will come up when someone google's whatever they're looking for). So there is the benefit that people go to Etsy to shop and when you're first starting out, it only cost 20 cents to list a product and you don't pay more than that until it sells. Whereas, most websites cost $30-40 a month, every month whether you're selling or not.
Yeah it sounds like they want to use any and all images/inspiration from makers to re-create items for cheap to sell as decor in their stores
Which is what a lot of corporations do. Like you can see small creators designs on shein and temu and things. And they of course never credit the original designer. But you'd like a business like Michaels which is LITERALLY a supply store for small creators would have more respect for said creators.
Yes! It means that Micheal's would own absolutely EVERYTHING that you present on their platform, which is absolutely DISGUSTING! Have you noticed how Micheal's stores are so bare now? So many companies are not working with them anymore and Micheal's needs fresh new ideas from little people like us! This way they can expand and grow, without having to put any money up. Utterly disgusting.
Yes! The yarn selection at Michaels is atrocious anymore!!!
Yep, it's a predatory contract. Don't sign up if you want to retain rights to your work.
It made me nervous too so I'm sitting back and watching. I'll give it a few years and see if there's any talks of them ripping off artists work and by then the platform will be a little more established so THEN I would be a good time to check it out.
All I can say is uggh
Yeah, like what even is this.
Wow that's dirty.
Yeah, it's sketchy. But also, maybe I'm just overprotective of my work so I think people are trying to steal it when they're not haha.
Wow. Who would even want to use this?! So disappointed.
I know, it's very concerning. I hope they clarify terms, or adjust them, or... idk... do something lol.
Michael’s is being soo abusive ! Will never sell in that place with those conditions
The weird thing is, I also haven't seen them put ads out trying to attract BUYERS to that platform. Just more sellers. That seems very selfish on their part. At least Etsy, especially around the holidays, puts out ads trying to attract consumers to the platform. Helps with making sales lol.
Wooooooooooow
Where does a big company get off at exploiting a small artist???
It is concerning.
I would put a watermark on all the artwork, no matter the platform! Then nobody can steal your shit!
There's actually software that you can use to remove watermarks though. Not a fool proof plan as unfortunate as it is.