Panpsychism - A conversation with Rupert Sheldrake
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- čas přidán 18. 02. 2021
- The discussion of alternative worldviews, from various forms of materialism to types of idealism, has exploded in recent years, and the notion of panpsychism is in the middle of the debate.
In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon explore the different types of panpsychism being proposed, from more conservative forms that are linked to materialism, to older types that have been advocated by figures from AN Whitehead to Aristotle.
They ask about the place of time and space in different views of reality, and tease out the connections to consciousness and eternity. Models including emergence and information theory rise, as well as the role of the brain, as they wonder about the direction in which this rich conversation is heading.
For more dialogues between Rupert and Mark see:
www.sheldrake.org/audios/shel...
www.markvernon.com/talks - Zábava
Thank you both so much for sharing that wonderfully enlightening conversation; I was particularly pleased to hear the clarification of the “Holy Trinity “ 🙏
What an exceptional conversation that was.
Keeping in mind I ‘know’ nothing of such matters, I can’t help but feel intuitively that consciousness may be a ‘constant’ in the Universe. As discussed here, perhaps the pull of Entropy from the past to the future in physics, and ‘our’ temporal perception of this constant is manifested by ‘us’ in the present. The observer and phenomenon emanating from the same source (the push), Unus mundus, i.e. it’s contained in the ‘fabric’ of potential.
Thank you Gentlemen for the wonderful conversation. I’m so appreciative that you share these.
To add, contrary to popular belief, Entropy is not disorder but a more complex form of order, one that explores many more ways or orders.
Say I toss a coin, at the moment its in the air we are both in a high state of entropy.
When it lands Heads (Tails) if only I look at it then I gain 1 bit of information (my entropy is lowered), until I show you what it was yours remains high. So from your point of view the system is still in a random state until I show you
Wonderfully stimulating discussion. Thanks.
I love these exchanges. I am Chris CCD on Facebook.
In response to you both, I offer 'Divine Flywheel theory':
I feel aversion and attraction are generative of narrativity and, in turn, 'activity' at all levels of reality. A plan to go towards something is a narrative linking the past and the future. The acting out of these plans generates 'habits' which we then narritivise as 'patterns' or 'laws'. At a deeper level of our everyday lives, narrativity is generative of changes in what we experience as the world 'out there'. Note how expectation, a narrative, is generative of either positive or negative results in parapsychology. So we ourselves, via narrativity (abstraction) that stems from aversion/attraction, are 'bridges' between past and future. The narrativity process takes place 'non-locally' and impacts the 'local'. Perhaps attention links the local domain and non-local (imagination, abstraction, narrativity). Ultimately, at all levels of reality, abstractions shape the future pattern of that which is abstracted from - the 'divine flywheel'. Perhaps we are this process in action. Perhaps time, as we experience it, is the rate at which this wheel turns? When in Mihaly Csikszentmihályi's 'flow' state, time moves rather swiftly. This theory would allow God back in as on the Broadest level, the whole show can be seen to be 'pulled' by the gravitational force of the future final chapter in his narrative. would love to hear what people have to say about this.
This convo blows me away. You both went from panentheism, panpsychism to the Holy Trinity in just 30 minutes. Immanence and emergence (difference) still confuses me ... but you have given me some food to chew on. Thank you both.
Thank you for the wonderful discussion. I also appreciate the further references at the end.
"A push from the past and a pull from the future".
Sheldrake should have a conversation with kastrup... if planets and solar systems are the expression of desociated minds... a holarchic system of mental desociation (which looks like material planets from our viewpoint) then there is a common ground for idealism. Kastrup desociation is then not only visible as biology but as all self organizing temporalspatial agents eg the solar system. But spacetime itself is then only a construction of the desociated agent within the holarchic structure of desociation from 1 towards infinity.
An ante litteram panpsychist from the 18th century: 'Man has no Body distinct from his soul; for that called Body is a portion of a Soul discerned by the five senses' William Blake.
I suspect this makes Blake an idealist, in fact...
why do scientists hate 'pushing from behind'?? not glamourous enough? not everything can attract from the future.
light does not exist without the background of dark. i'd hate to be the dummy that is forced to push from behind-- let's force our women to do it.