Redfall? More like... | Dropped Frames Episode 349
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
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Redfall came out last week to much of the disdain of pretty much everyone. Is the game as bad as people say it is? We take stock of the next couple of months in games, including summer game events. Kotaku fights back at Nintendo's blacklisting them. CS:GO hits an all time high in concurrent players. Are we hyped for The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom? Is Bramble scary? All that and much more on this week's episode!
0:00 - The Summer of Games
12:00 - Vegas
16:40 - Zelda leaks
18:30 - Nintendo blacklisting Kotaku
20:40 - CS:GO hitting peak concurrents of 1.8 million
22:00 - Darkest Dungeon 2 releasing this week
22:25 - Wartales selling well
23:50 - Redfall
27:00 - Cohh drops a bomb randomly then back to Redfall
59:00 - Cohh is actually looking forward to Zelda
1:04:20 - Star Wars Jedi Survivor woes
1:29:30 - Bramble: The Mountain King
1:34:40 - Lost Odyssey
1:52:50 - JP finishes Xenoblade Chronicles 3
1:58:15 - Q Remastered
2:12:00 - Kalevania
2:21:25 - Mia and the Dragon Princess
2:27:00 - Real life Dark Souls
2:29:25 - The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog
2:30:40 - The Last Case of Benedict Fox
2:49:00 - Replacing Iron Man
2:52:40 - Gran Turismo movie
2:57:00 - Shoutouts
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I caught this live (for once), and I gotta say, I really prefer watching the VODs. Can pause regularly when I get distracted. I guess I'm trying to say thank you for always uploading these VODs quickly!
I’ve started to watch them when I was active twitch viewer. Then I stopped to watch twitch completely, but their chemistry, personalities and my love for the game industry kept me glued to this show
Thanks a lot for featuring my solo indie game project Kalevania on your episode!! I just released 1.0.3 hotfix with the screen flash setting disabled by default, and it can be adjusted by pressing backspace on the keyboard. I will add a proper pause menu item on a later update. Thanks again!
I feel like Redfall started life as some kind of PvP hero shooter, then veered into being an open world FPS. A lot about the game leans into it being a hero shooter, the art style, the characters and abilities, the movement, the gun play, the clearly hashed in story and AI. It just has that feel to it.
To me it felt like they actually did try to go the l4d2 route, then half way tru development decided to go back to something resembling an arkane game.
Cohh thinks corps care about reputation far more than they do. The public has short memories, you have to have consistent duds to get people to actually internalize. Redfall got pushed out the door because fixing it to an acceptable level was going to cost more than it was worth. And not just the cost directly attributed to the game, but opportunity cost. If Arkane is fixing Redfall, they aren't making something else.
Sounds like Twitch carried RedFall for Cohh, I wonder how long he would've put up with the bugs and world if he wasn't talking to chat the whole time and actually just had to sit there and play it.
People who try to dismiss Redfall's devs by saying it's "the B-team" have no idea what they're talking about. This is literally the people that made Prey, which is arguably more beloved than Dishonored itself. These guys are talented as SHIT and have already showcased immense promise. So no, that whole "it's not the main devs" argument doesn't work here at all
Just curious, did you check the credits or something?
That's 6 years ago and Austin studio hadn't released any game during that time while Lyon studio pubished 3 games. Things could change a lot within 6 years, not to say the founder of Arkane who managed/directed Austin studio left the studio since 2019.
We don't know what really happened but clearly they're not the same team that made Prey anymore. There is no way veteran game devs would make an AI like PS2 games in 2023.
Redfall is not mediocre or mid, is just a bad game.
We should rise the quality bar and demand more from this 70 dollars AAA games
It's on Gamepass though. It's a product from a AAA studio, that seems like it was made by like two people on their free time.
@@esaedvik So gamepass & mid games are justified together like this.
@@esaedvik So what if it's on gamepass even if it's free it's a bad game
All respect Co, but I don't think you understand how stupid most shareholders are
Yeah he is coming at it from the side of practical and long term growth, Shareholders only care about immediate gratification and wealth.
Exactly, most shareholders are not plugged into the ins and outs of what makes a game good. All they care about is how much did it sell or how much engagement did it get on gamepass.
Ultimately the CEO and board decides when a product releases. Not the shareholders. Shareholders are unhappy with sub-par products because they have sub-par profits. Also the average shareholder is an "investor" meaning they buy and hold long term. Not traders. This is all on upper management.
@@djmartens123 Your worldview is out of date, the vast majority of investing isn't done by individuals holding on like bonds but by huge corps like hedge funds. They will literally kill a company they have shares in to increase the value of their shares in some other company. It's all about short term aggregate profits at the cost of the companies they squeeze to death.
Wow, Lost Odyssey! I forgot I played that game, but this brought me back, and I now remember how good it was.
calling redfall a mid game is insulting to all the other mid/avg games
Yeah, Cohh is a fanboy of Bethesda and Arkane. Can’t blame him, prey was a masterpiece…
yeah. I get that it's a mid game IF everything would get fixed but you can't be rating games on their potential, that's disingenuous. Calling it a mid game now is just weird since it's barely a skeleton of a game
I like Cohh so I mean no disrespect, but he has nostalgia goggles on for Bethesda, remember when he talked about how bad Fallout 76 was, then, then turned right around and says his most anticipated game is Starfield by Bathesda.
His standard for mid is just different for most people. For him if the game is still functional and playable and has no major issues that prevent players to play the game then it’s not bad.
Tbh it’s quite fair. Because the real big issue for most people is it’s price tag and hype built by MS for this game. If it’s from an indie studio with 30$ price tag people would be far less critique about it.
Or, get this, he simply has a different opinion than you. The gunplay and the game looks fairly fun. What's insulting is ignoring someone's opinion and saying it must be incorrect.
Wow I never thought I'd see Lost Odyssey here. By far my favorite Jrpg and it's not even close. I've been waiting for a pc port/emulator for several years to replay it
Xenia works or so I’ve heard
Last I checked it's meant to be fully playable on at least one of the emulators without any issues. Can't remember which one though, but it's definitely been on my list to replay (and finally finish) it at some point soon.
99% of the time it's always the higher ups that are to blame for stuff like Redfall. Yes, Cohh, shareholders are absolutely that dumb.
The week has been good but now it’s brilliant!!!
Skillup also said that if weapon durability was a dealbreaker for you in BOTW, that probably won't change in TOTK
Thank you Zeke for playing Lost Odyssey. Remastered confirmed
In regards to Redfall I think Cohh is just thinking in an idealistic way. Yeah ideally every company would make decisions based off of the quality of the games but in reality companies will make decisions based off of how much it would cost and how much they can make back. Microsoft probably decided that spending millions more on development and delaying the game by another year or so would not make enough of a difference for sales, and they probably assumed that they game wouldn't be reviewed as poorly as it did. Companies only make great games because those companies have the belief that making quality games will make the most money, however not every company will always share that belief. If a company can make a 7/10 and still makes hundreds of millions then they would all the time.
Lore wise Lightsabres are supposed to be quite heavy. They are essentially a plasma that is trapped in a shield. AFAIK the plasma is also spinning creating something of a gyroscopic effect however that would be real physics explanation and SW doesn't care much about physics.
Great show guys, hope you have an awesome week.
One quick thank you to Twitch and streamers like JP, Zeke and Cohh who play and discuss games like Redfall so poor gamers like me can experience all its glory without the embarrassment of purchase. I hope it gets No Man Sky'd and turns into the AAA game it was hyped to be. Perhaps then I will play it 👍
I don't see how Cohh can call the Redfall Mid. The world is completely empty, boring quests/story, lacking cutscenes, boring gameplay loop due to bad AI and quests, classes were meh, couldn't really do stealth (Even though it was a major selling point.) unless you just happened to get lucky and your gun has a silencer. The only saving grace in this game is the voice acting and somewhat interesting main characters. Sure there are bugs and the AI is bad, but if that was the only issue it wouldn't be reviewed nearly as bad. Look at Cyberpunk. It had bad AI and and bugs. Sure people were upset, but it still made the top 10 best games of the year for a lot of people. Because the core of the game was fun and the story/quests were interesting. Redfall was a complete miss on almost all accounts.
Even if they fixed the FPS and bugs then core mechanics can never be fixed.
Jedi Fallen Survivor is definitely a top game for the GOTY, but I still don't think it tops Hogwarts Legacy for GOTY so far. None of the dropped frames crew played Hogwarts so it'll be easy for them to rule it out or forget it but it is going to be a definite going to be a top contender. Even if one of them play it offstream so they don't get the backlash effect the stream that they think they'll get.
GOTY contenders will be be Diablo IV, Starfield, Hogwarts Legacy, Jedi Fallen Survivor. Pretty confidently I'll say based on the beta, Diablo 4 will be a success, but Starfield is still up in the air, if not getting a delay based on Redfall. Microsoft will delay if that game is even remotely the same quality as Redfall.
Bro, i LOVED Jedi survivor even with these bugs and issues but holy fuck hogwarts legacy is probably my GOTy right now.
There's going to be a lot of contenders. Even AC 6 and the new Zelda might be "Company shoe-ins," though I like to joke AC 6 because it'll bring up the controversial difficulty options (in a From Software game) since the games have had a normal and hardmode.
I dont think Microsoft thinks redfall is worth 70 bucks i think they think its worth a game pass sub, so sure release it for $70 pushed them to game pass since no one in their right mine would pay 70bucks.
The idea of after a point a game has to be released i fully understand that, after a point a dev regardless of money has to release, contracts have be fulfilled. Just like a streamers has to put out a stream to meet ad hour that steam might not meet usual standard. This happening every creative media.
I think they put the 70 on red fall to make sure game pass is the only way ppl will play it.
I think with honkai, its important to remember you start start spending day one, the intial progress is free and you start paying after a while
Its always funny seeing Cohh's face whenever Genshin/Honkai making big bucks is mentioned. On a side note, apparently the sudden spike in comments came from folks malding over Cohh's thoughts on Redfall. Also just as hilarious.
Nicolas Cage as The Big Wheel. Make it happen Disney, you won't.
No Joke, if they could get an actual large investor to come on DF to talk the investor side of game releases itd probably open alot of eyes on how little most of the investors care about a singular product so long as profits are posted
Never heard the term MID before. I always consider what Cohh is describing as AVERAGE, this is a very average game.. like 5 out of 10 at best. BAD being 1-3 and 10 being Excelsior! :)
The reason "mid" is in the zeitgeist again is Tiktok, and it means worse than he thinks it does. Games should not be assigned number values, it's subjective in the first place.
@@esaedvik Perhaps. But my whole life the grading system was often 1-10 or 1-100 with 5 or 50 being average. Vast majority grew up with that understanding and to be honest it can easily be applied to games. Why not? Everyone agrees this game is quite average _whom isn't a tiktok slave!_
@@esaedvik Reminds me of when I heard a 20 year old Californian girl bring back the term "deadass." As a New Yorker who'se almost a decade older I was surprised to hear her say it so casually.
49:20 Microsoft has Google levels of money. Google gave everyone back their money after Stadia died. Releasing the game was probably a bad call.
Redfall is worse then mid sorry cohh. You're free to have enjoyed your time with it overall, but it's a bad game. You having fun with a bad game doesn't change what it is
What cohh is mistaken about is the idea that anyone involved in these major companies cares about the longterm viablity of the company. They don't reputation is a currency to be echanged for cash
Lost odassy is a masterpiece
Who said Cohh's roommate was a she
The game was in development before the Microsoft acquisition
loved it
Id say the game awards is probably a bigger brand, the game awards is the biggest and most important games awards show, sgf isn't even the most important gaming conference the week it happens
Every casino has its own rules. You just need to talk to them. Some allow as much filming as you want so long as you blur our/keep other patrons faces out of it. Others restrict some to slots and not tables etc. Also online gambling is state by state.
I understand that it's only one example of many, but good luck anonymizing people in realtime.
JP saying Cyberpunk is polished when the cops still teleport behind you is just funny.
I guess what Redfall needs is an anime.
Cyberpunk at least had the framework to make a good game. Even if it was botched at release, bugfixes, patches, and enhancements turned the game into something that's actually fun to play, but only because the foundation was already there to be built on. Even if Redfall was completely free of bugs, the game at its core would more or less still be Generation Zero but worse. No bugfixes can help a game that was boring to begin with.
Kotaku is really trying to destroy itself the last few weeks. Between what was talked about, the one guy posting a picture that is racist at best, suggesting genocide at worst.....Kotaku has always been garbage but my god how out of touch they are thinking they are untouchable. That picture alone if they don't fire the guy could cost them any early coverage what so ever from Asian countries.
Zeek (srry if spelling wrong) looks like hes auditioning for vikings 😄, works for him i think 👍
Microsoft stock is up because of ai and software.
I think the problem with Redfall is that the game probably has the workings to be a great game, but it released too early with the people making the decision being like "We will either patch it later down the road or if people forget about it, move to the next project"
It’s coh’s opinion, but I don’t understand how he can say red fall isn’t bad but Zelda BOTW is 🤔
Edit: yo coh blink twice if Phil is there 😶🌫️
Yup. Dropped the ball on
that one tbh.
I hated the look of BOTW to and I'd still rather play that game over that shitfall game.
Cohh has never said any of those things lil bro wtf
@@Sero4 He mean he's never said he liked it though. so there's only;y one other option. lol, pretty sure he said it hated BOTW
@@sumireravenclaw8034 he didn't say it was bad though, and he recognized that it's a good game, just not to his preference
If they were really commited to make Redfall a good game they should have just not released it and finish the game. As it is right now it's more a 20 bucks early access, 1.0 maybe in 2 years, kind of game.
2:28:06 - just for information to viewers, the crown is called St Edward's Crown, and was given to Charles II as a gift for officially beginning the Transatlantic Slave Trade.
Cohh having a go at chat, but what he described with Red Fall sounds like a bad game. He needs to articulate himself better if he actually thinks his description is "mid." Broken AI, Insulting story, multiple bugs, and doesn't go on to describe why the combat is satisfying, or how the looter shooter aspects do anything good. Just said it is a looter shooter, and combat "can" be fun, which has to be the lowest bar possible for an FPS described as "mid."
I like Redfall alot. I think its a ton of fun. I also really liked Rage 2 and it reminds me of it. Could have used more time in development but what we got is fun. Takes a few hours to get into it but im hooked. Almost finished. Cutscenes would have bee. Way better but for a gamepass game its tits. Would not spend $70 on it no way.
Don't like using SGF to refer to all the of the shows that are going on in june simply because I don't think Keighley deserves any of the credit for those shows taking place and he is narcissistic enough to take all the undeserved praise. He puts on one average show and then claims everything that goes on around it as his, which he then uses to big himself up and promote his next event. He's a smart businessman but he's also a crap person and I wish he didn't get so much attention.
The game studios and especially publishers are just really out of touch.
Simple as
Calling Redfall a mid game is just insulting to games that are actually mid. Lets be honest. The game at least in launch was a broken mess. Everything in it is either painfully average or way below that. So it objectively cannot be a mid game. And obviously it will get more shit when they try to sell it for 70€ and more.
With the amount of bad games recently, I'm starting to think ironically that they are making them bad intentionally for publicity. Like they calculate the cost and revenue ratio and decide that spending more time developing the game is not worth the money.
Maybe releasing 5 bad games in a smaller time frame makes them more money than 2 good games. Isn't that why big triple A studios release a new game every year? I remember when Ubisoft used the exact same map layout for 2 Farcry game
Series is mid, PC is the only way to play Xbox games at 60fps. Maybe get an S for the excellent indies and fps boost.
Redfall is the No Mans Sky of AAA games
That's a really optimistic outlook on Redfall.
@@SilverNuclear Optimism is the only thing that Bethesda and Arkane can hope for.
Not even close. The hype surrounding No Mans Sky was unreal. Until Elden Ring, it might have held title as the game that had the biggest pre-release hype of any game ever made. Plenty of people kind of expected Redfall to be disappointing. It really didn't do anything before release to inspire confidence.
And if you're trying to say that Arkane will turn Redfall around the way Hello Games did with No Man's Sky did, it's way too early to act like that will be the case. At the very least, even at release, No Man's Sky had very interesting ideas and core mechanics and systems. Redfall is incredibly boring, generic, and even if they do improve it, what does it offer over the other looter shooter fodder that is available to play?
@@UpWithTheSickness nah, I just know people who were looking forward to this game.
Redfall? More like ... ArkaneFallFromTheGrace.
Y’all on here complaining because Cohh didn’t hate Redfall…wow
Holy shit does Cohh “gOoD vIbEz” Carnage, the man who consistently has the most aggressively inoffensive take on anything and everything, rise to the occasion of beating those allegations to have the weirdest game dev take possible.
For a good portion of the show, my man argues in what appears to be good faith that it is easier for him to believe that Arkane Austin developers and artists, who crunch and sacrifice time with friends and family and are underpaid at every turn, WANTED to intentionally release the worst version of their game possible rather than even consider the possibility that shareholders and investors wanted to see a return on investment in the immediate rather than later and pressured them into releasing the game unfinished. This is something we see happen in the industry routinely, but simply laying blame at the feet of these monied interest parties that have proven to be the downfall of AAA games is just not sufficient for this enlightened centrist because its “more complicated than that”. The man won’t even commit to calling the game bad, but oh so easily commits to the hardline stance of shitting on working class developers.
He even goes so far as to even argue that Rami Ismail’s viewpoint to the contrary of his “argument” holds no water in this scenario because Rami’s knowledge of game dev begins and ends at “indie games only”. Absolutely mind blowing. Never has someone performed such feats of mental gymnastics in an effort to blame anyone but the investors who demonstrably alienate game developers from their art. Weirdest position to fight tooth and nail to defend especially coming from a man who loves everything he plays.
The only possibility I can come up with to explain this train of thought is that Cohh’s mind was actually warped beyond repair as a consequence of being one of eleven people to play Redfall to completion. My man has lost the plot so thoroughly that I choose to believe rather than us witnessing a real argument being made here, it was merely a PTSD induced fever dreamlike state of lucid ramblings triggered upon Cohh hearing the word Redfall one too many times.
If this is what it looks like when bro tries to have a bold take for once, the show is better off with Cohh simply saying “I’m having an absolute blast with it” when asked his thoughts on any game ever released as per usual for his commentary.
May his good forever be vibes or some shit. 🤡
I got into a fit with him on twitter because I called out his shit out about taking a sponsored look at it. guess that's why he's trying to suck microshafts dick about how good redfail is. lol
Omg slay queen/king/non binary ruler
You really trying to claim highly skilled professionals most of whom earn close to 6 figures are ‘working class’? The middle class really is dead.
Well, Cohh is agressively mid. :)
I’m almost positive he’s referring to the publisher making a mistake in “just releasing” the game in its state, and referred to Arkane more in the sense of people saying “it’s not main Arkane”. I don’t disagree his hot take came out of left field but I don’t think he was blaming the devs, he was blaming the shareholder mentality the devs face.
He was trying to say that indie’s get released in those states because they can’t afford to go further without some sort of recoup on their investment, whereas a multibillion dollar corporation can afford to say “we’re going to need more time if we want this thing to make money”
Again, maybe I missed something in his rambling but I feel like the last thing he did was blame the hardworking devs at their level.
Zeke is clueless
Not sure why cohh mentions far cry with redfall. Far cry is FAR more enjoyable game series than this shit.
I have yet to play the latest FarCry, but they've always been decent. Even though Farcry 3 might have had the most 'survival' mechanics; I still love Farcry 5 just for the setting and the amount of effort that went in to the soundtrack. Such an interesting hodge-podge of Country/Religious-Choir/Technotwang that even though I would never put a Farcry in my Top 10 listings, FC 5 might be in my top 3 soundtracks.
Sorry cohh this game isn't evne mid. sure if you mean mid as in a 5/10 then yeah sure. The only game I'd finished and played that I felt was mid was saints row 2022. That game had so much more fun then this shitfest of a game. There's not a single thing they could do to fix the core mechanics.
He literally explained that when he uses the term "mid" he actually means average/middle of the road. Pay attention.
Keep Cohh thoughts to his thoughts videos and get him off dropped frames.
Oh God that Koch event. I remember tuning in every once and a while on massive copium that we would get a "Kingdom Come: Deliverance" sequel or next-game. Instead their one and only announcement was a boardgame rendition :(
It's the only reason I still remember the event.