Lists of books on small unit tactics: www.amazon.com/shop/brent0331 **This website sells a lot quality reproductions of vintage camouflage patterns**: onlinemilitaria.net/shopaff.asp?affid=1608
While I despise the state of America at large, I am extremely glad so many people are putting time and effort into the education of the common man. Nothing new for this channel, but as a community on CZcams and other platforms, content creators have been doing a great job lately.
Brent: "Here's a 30min long esoteric discussion about the application of a more niche role and how it can be applied to broader roles." Me: "Excellent, some good fucking content."
Based on comments, there are points which got missed by viewers: DMR is a ROLE with a SKILLSET. It is NOT the rifle. So any rifle can, in the hands of a skilled user, do the job. And a fantastic rifle, in the hands of a sucky user, won't be much good in the role. And the vid covers additional considerations. It is worth a careful listen.
Your right but the rifle can also make a difference. You dont want to have a 12" 5.56 rifle as a DMR role and would much rather have a 16"-20" 5.56 rifle
Its easy to get confused when DMR means Designated Marksmen’s Rifle. Im guilty of saying DMR when referring to the role/skillset. When referring to the Role I believe “D.M” (Designated Marksman” is correct. But most of us are guilty of saying “DMR”.
I was a DM in 2004-2005 Baghdad. I used a parade grade off the shelf M-14 with a fiberglass stock. I was with a group in 03 that went to Camp Gruber and got better long range shooting instruction from a Civilian Contractor. Our supply sergeant obtained the side screw on rail thats an L bracket it meant the acope was over the iron sights so if needed you could use either. Supply Sergeant also got us Leupold 10X scopes. At that time the DM was more about laying precision fires in the 300-700 Meter zone where the M-4 starts to really suck shit accuracy wise. 4 months in i became a Rifle Squad leader and used the M-14. Based on our mission set all i can say is it worked. I almost forgot i traded some smoke grenades to the scouts for an entire can of M-118 match grade ammo. I got a lot of trigger time and M-118 compared to standard Ball is so good its almost like cheating.
I won the American High Power Rifleman Award in Long-Range mostly shooting M118LR pre production lot B from iron sight rifles including an M24, an M14, and a PO M40. I found at 600 yards I did just as well shooting M852 and since it kicked a lot less, I shot M852 to keep from being worn out in 600 x 3 events. You said you got better training from civilian contractor. In your time period there were only about 15 AMU guys to go around to teach the course. One solution to the manpower need was rounding up about 100 civilian Champion Service Rifle Shooters to assist the AMU through the help of the CMP. I was one of those qualified civilians and for almost 6 years as. CMP-USAMU labeled Military Rifle Instructor I assisted the USAMU deliver SDM, TTT, and SAFS Instruction. Overall the all volunteer group helped to train over 2700 Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen. At any rate, the CMP Instructors wore a blue polo shirt and 5.11 cargo trousers along with a blue windbreaker. You might recall some of these guys. I enjoyed teaching the course tremendously, mostly because I got to know many of the USAMU Service Rifle Section Competitors who, despite their trophies proving that they are the best shooters on the plant, still were very humble about it all.
Having, say, a .308 AR as a DMR rifle is easily accounted for via everyone carrying a couple of extra AR 10 mags or even a box or 2 of .308. A lot of times the simple solution is the best. As for a AR15 for DMR, that designated marksman should have 77gr OTM rounds in marked mags so they can max out the range of the platform. Again, maybe every man in the element carries a box or 2 of 77gr ammo to help the logistics out. Just my thought, I like KISS
When I was in Afghanistan, some units would have pretty much everybody carry a mag of Mk. 262, even if they didn't have a Mk. 12 in the squad. The reason being it had much better terminal effect against people, especially up close, so whenever they had a rotating duty like an ECP, or highway checkpoint where they were dealing with people up close, they could load their mag of 262 and feel a little more confident that they could put somebody down faster.
I agree, guys need to think about the DM's weapon if he's carrying a different caliber like we do for crew served weapons. Just like we spread load machine gun ammunition/mortar rounds amongst the team/squad/platoon. Great points, thanks for watching and commenting.
At this particular point in time, you're better off staying hidden from them. Most drones are being used to artillery spot. If you're close enough to engage them with a shotgun or similar weapon you're essentially telling the enemy where you are. Professional military has Electronic warfare to bring to the fight.
@@nelson0110 There is Civ EW capability to consider. If a rival Civ group has drones, how high are they flying? 100 ft? 500 ft? 1,000 ft? Only EW capability will allow you to do something about a drone 500+ ft up. Look into Mexican cartel tactics and countermeasures.
Pros and cons to every approach. My background is comm pog but long range PRS competitions. I would pick higher magnification optic 3-18 with locking mil turrets, top mounted red dot, use 77gr 556 ammo and bipod. By making turrets for both 55gr and 77gr allows you to essentially have 2 different zeros. The 77gr ammo is exponentially more accurate and effective at range. I feel like this approach has the most versatility and you can relatively easily target ID and shoot out to 1k yards.
Their approach of 3x to 5x fixed magnification is really out of date. 20" barrel for 556 is too long too The dot helps you orient your scope, which fixes the problem of figuring out where you're aiming, that they talked about in the second half of the video. Plus the DMR can still fight alongside the rest of the squad under nods, cqb, masked up, shooting from a vehicle etc.
John Lovell recently discussed how the taliban used the placement of pockets on the BDU shoulder (raid mod style) as a way to differentiate between regular Army, and the Rangers during one of his deployments. Look up Shawn Ryan Show ep. 80 for more of the specifics.
You should make a basic hand-to-hand and/or knife combat video. All these videos are gold, how the heck was I not able to find your channel sooner. Keep up the good work!
LPVO's have gotten really capable and extremely affordable these days. Even a Vortex Strike Eagle is really solid, and you can regularly find them on sale for half off.
@@brassvulcher8207 It completely depends on your barrel length and the specific ammo you use. No matter what it's a good idea to put your stuff into a ballistic calc with a chrono to get a better idea of what the BDC drops ACTUALLY mean for you. Strelok was amazing but you can't get it any more because I guess the dev is Russian.
@@Sophistry0001 Doesn’t line up with anything, there is a lot more to it then the moa they show you, or so called software , especially Istrelok. Only thing it kind of lined up with was wolf out of a 10.5”! that shit was way off! This was shot at range multiple times with professional shooters.
@@brassvulcher8207 Right, the 4 probably isn't going to translate to 400 yards unless you are using the specific barrel length and specific ammo and using the specific zero the drops were made for. For me, given chrono, barrel length, and my zero, the 4 might actually translate to more like 320. But you can know that ahead of time and tape that to the inside of your scope cap or your butt stock. And even if you can't figure out how to use the BDC, the strike eagle is still among the best bang for buck for LPVO. Every other BDC from every other manufacturer is gonna have the same limitation. I think primary arms also has a very strong offering in that budget range.
Don’t forget that proper ammunition selection is crucial for this role. Heavier projectiles are less effected by the wind and typically maintain their velocity longer than lighter bullets. Which means you are more effective at greater distances. My personal experience, Ive had great luck with IMI 77gr ot 5.56 and Federal 168gr smk .308 ammunition pretty consistently across multiple different firearms. However, i do recommend that you buy 1 box of ammunition to test in your rifle before dumping a bunch of money into this expensive match ammo. Don’t just go off what the internet deems “the best”. Case and point, I bought A box of Black Hill mk262 77gr 5.56 to try out of my BCM recce 16in rifle. It produced 3.5-4in groups at best. Retested with IMI razorcore 5.56 and the group shrunk to 1.2 inches at 100yrds. But according to the internet, Black hills mk262 is the best production 5.56 on the market. Which it might be but my rifle hated it.
If fighting a guerilla war on your own territory, making everyone that's a good shot into DMR and sniper teams is going to be far more effective than running 9-12 man squads with just 1 and patrolling around. Squads, platoons, companies, etc are for taking and holding ground, something that is not sustainable against any uniformed, organized force. Spamming AR15s for homestead/neighborhood/compound defense or small raid operations is great, but if you want to win a guerilla war without dying most insurgents would be better off with hunting rifles and battle rifles, making precise shots, and bouncing out of the area and blending back into the population. Any sustained small unit operations is going to be met with specialized assets and youre going to get smoked. You need the capability to operate in small units for specific tasking, but in general, IRA type sniping amd bombing operations are far more costly and demoralizing to an occupying force than going toe to toe with an organized force. I'd rather have a government showing up with suitcases of money to make you stop than larping as General Gates going toe to toe with redcoats on their terms . Yea, you can say we kicked the shit out of the taliban the whole time, but they didnt have to win firefights and battles, they just had to survive and fight when they felt like it. You know, if you find yourself with 20 guys, a legit belt fed gpmg and a dmr or two with teams capable of making an assault you could absolutely go toe to toe for a little while, right until every on station drone, airpower, and indirect fire all concentrate on you because you are what they have been waiting for the whole time. Tell me im wrong. Just survivng and blending in would be the main thing, unless they start mass round ups and executions, then you have to do what you have to do. Also dont forget the capability to field test for gunshot residue, finger prints and detainment of citizens based on miniscule evidence.
This. People don't realize that militia/guerilla activities in a 21st century stateside conflict are going to look a lot more like crime than soldiering.
@@listen_to_the_wizard321 Yep. Homemade "bumps in the road" are at least as important as rifles in a modern insurgency, maybe even more so. Wars in general are won by maximizing cost to the enemy while minimizing cost to yourself.
It sounds like your assumption for a 2nd US Civil War would be patriots vs the US military. I don't think that is how it would play out, but that's just my opinion.
@Kriss_L Instead of playing hypotheticals, let's just look at some history and draw some inferences. Most people don't know this. A lot of people didn't think the 1st civil war would play out that way either, especially since men in the north typically didn't want to fight the south. While many US soldiers were against fighting their brothers, many left one army for the other, the US government opened the borders and recruited Irish and Germans wholesale. The US Army in the 1860s was nearly 50% foreign born and 1st generation foreigners while the CSA was 90+% American born dating back to the revolution, including many natives. Now, I'm no genius, but the government has opened the gates now, and pays for everyone coming, often gifting them more than some US citizens earn, definitly more than e1s and e2s. It would not take long to recruit warm bodies out of this endless supply by making obligation part of the deal. A good portion of nationalists and say "traditional americans" were purged after Biden took office. There were crackdowns for "racism" and not taking the jabo. I don't believe in coincidences. I think it takes a very narrow view to think any nation's military wouldn't conduct homeland operation, it's happened for time immortal, and just as often using foreigners and mercenaries to do it under a nation's flag while fighting the inhabitants of that nation.
Many other in the comments have said this, but the DM role in my opinion is fundamentally the most effective choice for insurgents. If you look back on our own history, the American rifleman was the proto-DM of his day. We used long range, high priority targeting to decimate the greatest military in the world, at the time. And while their military was more effective than ours, we did not necessarily need to win large scale engagements, much like the Taliban, viet-cong, and other insurgents throughout history. Hit, run, live to fight another day. Take only engagements you are capable of winning, target high priority assets, and inflict morale casualties whenever possible. A group of marksmen would be more effective than a group of conventionally armed fighters in an American homeland insurgency.
Brent, your rifle is so well camouflaged that I can barely see what it is! 👏🏻 great paint job. Did you do it yourself? It be cool if you made a video and maybe a tutorial on painting a carbine.
I may live in the midwest, but the entire reason I've been turned off of the AR10 .308 platform is the lack of standardization, and the comparatively proprietary and expensive rifle being very much locked in to a niche of precision shooting due to weight and recoil. It's just way too niche to justify the cost and effort. I'd sooner make do with an 18" AR15 upper with a stronger optic for much less headache.
In my limited experience it seems more likely to have extended range shots in an urban vs rural environments. In a city or town you have straight streets and elevated firing positions that offer longer range shots.
I am watshing this from Germany as a zivillian, it is very interesting. Thank you very much. PS: Brent, I saw you with one show on the German TV. You are a movi Star ; ) that for shissel
As far as 1-8 options, check into the UTG. It’s cheaper than other options, about as clear as Primary Arms to my eye, and about $100 less expensive. Maybe not what you want, but is an option to consider. That said, I love my Primary Arms and Vortex LPVOs.
At ~ the 14:45 mark: you did a good job of skirting the topic of "the meat-puppet in the Oval Office who threw away the 20-year long exercise in nation building needs to be impeached and executed for treason." Kudos for taking the high road; you're a better man than I, Gunga Din!
The camo twins! One man one rifle. Opinions vary but it would seem an accurate/Vari-powered scoped AR10 .308 would be about the best to fill the 'all around role'. In a team environment the options are wide open. I'm old school and would prefer a Rem BA HB in 30-06 with a mil-dot reticle 10X scope but would like the accompaniment of a soul taker/skull crusher with an AR15/10 platform. The DMR is a 'designated' role and usually an 'optimized weapon' platform but skill compensates. That ACSS reticle rocks - need to get one on something! Snipers are usually pretty good at the camouflage craft and don't walk around in a ghillie suit advertising it.
I'm in the middle of making my DMR build. I'm going to make an AR10 18" 1:8 twist .308 with a 1x-8x LPVO a 3 prong flash hider and a bipod. I'm also not sure if I want to make it like an M110 with a fixed buttstock or have a nice adjustable riser based buttstock
Despite having a Trijicon accupower 1-8x28mm ffp, which I primarily used with my LMT MWS308 in the 16" barrel configuration, I was never sold on the concept of the LPVO (too heavy & reticle obscures too much of target at distance). As mentioned here a 2.5-10 or 2.5-8 SFP is preferable to me on a DMR. That being said a 4x prism optic, preferably a TA31 RCO, is more than adequate to get combat effective hits out to 500 yards, possibly further depending on conditions and caliber.
Some thoughts, “A” Way, on all the different names / abbreviations. Name: Range Capability, Other Considerations Short Barreled Rifle: 0-200 meters, Member of squad, General Purpose Rifle: 0-300 meters, Member of squad Designated Marksman Rifle: 0-600 meters, >10 lbs total weight, Member of squad Reconnaissance (REECE) Rifle: 0-600 meters, 10 lbs total weight, likely different cartridge than rest of unit. May or may not be member of squad
> 2-10 This hasn't been relevant for about 15 years now We have 1-8s and 3-18s in the $1500-2400 price bracket that vastly outperform any 2-10 of any price Even at lower price like $800, viper PST 1-6 and VX freedom 4-12 TMR stomps the shit out of any 2-10 on the market for those applications
I deployed as as SDM to Afghanistan. One big POU that was never brought up in this discussion was PID. 5, 6x isn't going to do that at any decent range at all. I'd run 2.5-10, 2-12, whatever MPVO then piggyback or offset a red dot if I had it to do all over again.
24 inch ar 10 6.5 creed bipod scope. What I thinking would be top for this position. I have always Ben the DM in my situation. Prefer longer barrel to utilize cover concealment better.
I think at that point you're moving into sniper rifle territory. With that long of a barrel and a significantly less common caliber you're probably more well set up for sitting still and shooting a thousand yards than getting attached to a squad. Still useful, but a different role
I had been thinking about the DMR rifle also doubling in the role for suppressive fire. I've seen a few other channels talk about this. So the DMR would be set up with a binary trigger and D60 mags.
If you approach things from a "target priority" perspective, putting both roles on someone is asking too much. Asking both tasks of a rifle gets expensive. Light support weapons and methods are very different from DM methods and roles. Your LSW will use cones of fire, and potentially grazing fire or plunging fire. DM is point target fire and precision fire.
Neither of the rifles in the video have suppressors. How important would you rate those nowadays? For example, if you can choose either but want to keep barrel length manageable for a general purpose / SPR role (556/223), what would you prefer: an 11.5 - 14.5’’ with suppressor vs a 18-20’’ without one? Thanks again! Excellent as always.
For a DMR I would not dip into 11-14.5 inch barrel range if it can be avoided, I talked about that in the video, specifically talking about a squad outfitted with M4s while the DMR had an M16A4. In the end the DM is a role and can do the job with the same rifle as everyone else, but if we can better equipment that DM with a rifle best suited for his capability that's ideal. There are shortfalls to using suppressors that people ignore probably because they look cool. For a DM in an infantry team/squad, Barrel length is far more important then a suppressor in my opinion. These guys are operating within a squad/team not individual snipers. Look at Marines now with their M27 IARs with 16 inch barrels and suppressors added to them. Those weapons look like big heavy muskets now. I laugh because guys use to bitch about the weight and length of the M16A4 back in day, now look at the IAR's length and weight with a LPVO, PEQ and suppressor. Suppressors get very hot, very quick, add significant weight and length to the end of the rifle (not the most ideal place you want to add weight to a weapon), and gunk up your weapon faster. Do they have a use and purpose, sure, is it absolutely necessary that you have it on a DMR, I don't think so, definitely NOT at the cost of having to drop down into SBR barrel lengths to accommodate it.
I heard from Aussie SAS, that at night, they didn’t want to be near the SAW gunner. Because He didn’t have a Suppressor to hide His Muzzle flash. So He took all the Afghan return Fire.
We all like to think of 21st century rifleman/infrantry having 'modern rifles'..and yet its interesting as a civ to learn that a large % in GWOT era had iron sights. Its more shocking knowing how open Afghan/Iraq geography is: are to think about not having an LPVO.
Hey Squad Designated Marksmen Candidates out there, here's a test just for grins and giggles: 1. the target is 600 yards out, line of sight distance and the target is 38 degrees uphill. What is the flat ground distance to target using a cosign of .7880? 2. the target is 300 yards out and there's a crosswind raising dust and blowing loose paper from right to left. What is the needed favor for wind in MOA and inches at target distance using an MOA wind constant of 10 ? 3. the target is 36 inches in diameter and appears to be 6 MOA in diameter as seen on optic reticle. How far out is the target in yards?
How important is the forward assist in a dmr platform? I really like the sabre10 from psa (m110ish clone) but the billet version like the original m110 doesnt come with a forward assist. Is thisna deal breaker for you? Why wouldnt the original m110 from KAC have forward assist?
Forgive me for the mildly unrelated comment, but what do you think about testing these camo patterns or colors? Field Grey or Wolf Grey (Wehrmacht used these, as have a number of security agencies and the Confederate Army. How effective would they have been, and in what environment(s)?) Horizon Blue (The French wore these in WW1.) Flannel/Plaid (Hunters swear by these for hunting, and I reckon they are inexpensive or plentiful to come by. Almost every civilian would have at least one of these, which will likely include guerillas in a hypothetical situation where they were necessitated in North America. You can probably compare a colorful (traditionally red) or vibrant flannel with an earthier or drab-colored one. Make it an April Fools joke if you want) UCP dyed Brown or Khaki (an approximation to the Ukrainian Camouflage pattern. I've also seen some fellas dye their UCPs with instant coffee or Walnut to try and blend in with their woody locales) Pink (apparently the brits colored some of their vehicles pink during the Persian Gulf War) Ranger Green (Some say its better than OD Green. No idea if it actually is though. It's somewhat close to a grayish color, hence why I also suggested you test grey) Helikon Tex Adaptive Green (Another shade of green. I've heard, however, that some may misidentify the color as brown or a more saturated shade of green depending on lighting conditions or perception) Omani DPM (Saw administrative results wear 'em once. They're pretty drip, but I worry they're a little too orange. If you can't find them, perhaps an approximation will do) CQR Utility Camo (A company named CQR sells a sort of imitation of Multicam or OCP called Utility Camo on their apparel. It's rather identical, but with few gradients and sharper edges on their splotches.) Tie-Dye (Either colorful, or in natural colors. If folks had nothing else, they might take an old t-shirt and tie-dye it to get a fractal-styled pattern. You can compare spiral patterns with striped patterns, etc.) Anyone else wanna pitch in some ideas?
If you've been an avid viewer of this channel, you should realize by now that fieldcraft matters way more than specific camo choice if your only consideration is concealment Even choices that don't intuitively make sense, like standard multicam in snow, works just fine Your actual concern should be getting outside and learning how/when to move to minimize detection, not buying new uniforms for minor visual disruption The reason why there are so many different camos to begin with is NOT color matching terrain necessarily but IFF
There's some overlap in the basic design layout of a DMR and a pseudo LSW as far as choice of barrel and often optics go. I've seen it proposed that the same weapon can potentially pull double duty for both roles. I see the argument but I'm not totally convinced. Is it more effective to teach a DM to shoot like a SAW gunner or to teach a SAW gunner to shoot like a DM? They'll revert to their base level of training under stress. Who do you want them to be when the shit hits and instinct takes over?
SAW is a LMG. It has linked belts and can change barrels. It's for sustained fire (even if not totally used that way by recent US doctrine). The LSW is a highly mobile cone of fire weapon with short duration since it has a fixed barrel. It should have a heavy barrel so the user can do bursts/cone of fire, or just be a bullet hose on semi. It should also have a bipod. The DM can be a standard rifle with irons, used by the best shot in the group. It's a ROLE, not a Weapon. Giving a sucky shot a great rifle doesn't fix the sucky skillset.
@@mr.stotruppen8724 my dude, maybe I did miss your point. I thought your points were 1) people say the same rifle can be used for 2 different roles, 2) you are not convinced that is a good idea, mostly because 3) the training would be different. And I replied with "the guns have very different mission sets so need to be built different." And then I'm also not addressing, but basically agree with your reference to training for a particular role. Trying to get the same PERSON to fill both roles is stupid. Trying to fill 2 different roles with the same gun is, in my opinion, unwise.
Exactly what distances, conditions and tasks are typical for designated marksman? Could you provide a fictional debriefing of a month of a DM's life? Such as, "I did X on that day at X distance, then I did X at a distance of X and then I switched to doing X at X distance". I've heard about 100 times more about the rifle than about the rifleman himself and how he achieves his tasks...
I taught the course from 2004 to 2011 and although the idea was to teach soldiers to get good center of mass hits on the E target from 300 to 600 meters the actual training was subject to the Post’s range accommodations, sometimes less than 600 meters. Also, typically the ACOG would not be used except at the longer distances, since the idea was to get mid range hits with rack grade iron sight A4’s and M4’s. Regarding what was taught, measuring in MOA and mil angular units of measurement, slope shooting, wind countering using MOA wind constant of 7 or 10 depending on issued ammunition, shooter/target analysis, consistent sight alignment, smooth trigger control, and building a steady position using bone and artificial support.
@@charlesludwig9173 That's teaching a course of fire. I was wondering what the typical tasks of a designated marksman ON THE BATTLEFIELD would be. How much shooting he does at long range VS how much shooting he does in typical combat inside of 100 yards. What does he actually do and how much of it?
I appreciate that this kind of logic can be discussed but not delivered through the lense of high speed cool guy operator. Because that’s not what a prepared citizen is. Or does.
How about a guy in a DMR role, who carries his DMR (ie a light bolt gun like one of the Savage offerings with a scope- Mine is in .30-06) as well as his M4? I can carry a full rifleman's 5.56 load out in my kit, in addition to my DMR, and extra rounds for it...
Too much gun. How much hiking have you done with an AR in your hands, web gear/body armor, assault pack/rucksack, pistol belt, and a bolt gun on your back, with chow, water, medical, and ammo for all 3 weapon systems? Try going prone with two long guns. How about jumping over a fence or climbing over a log? Better to just carry one long gun that blurs both roles together. Easier to train on one weapon system anyway.
@@Mega1234rt I can't disagree with you, although it would only be two weapons. I train regularly with my AR, and I have a 3x magnifier to augment my red dot on it. I was just thinking about possibly having more fire power and capability... but the trade offs may outweigh the benefits. Thanks for the reply
DMR, as said in the vid, is ROLE or a SKILLSET, not a Rifle. So the DMR role can be done with an AR and 3x magnifier. Or a 3-9 scoped bolt gun. Or a laser rifle in the 40 watt range, or whatever. Do whatever you want. Get your gear out and haul it as you plan to use it. Maybe you plan to ride around in a truck? Or walk 20 miles a day for a week without resupply. I don't know what your plan or context is. Just train and practice what you anticipate happening.
If you listen to the discussion John and I had in this video, your suggestion goes against multiple points we raised from weapon setup, to a DMs role, to letting the enemy know exactly who/what you are.
@@Brent0331 I did-- and your instruction has been heeded. #1) I was just throwing it out there, and #2) I really don't want to carry another 7-ish pound rifle + ammo around. My load out is pretty set
In the civilian application for Minutemen - the AR-10 cannot be carried/used by everyone - telletubbies or slightly built females with 40% less upper body strength cannot haul the platform with their biceps, or the ammo. The DM key issue is the ACSS reticle so that ranging and more precise shots can be placed. I really love Leupolds (light, great glass, great eye relief, great durability), but their reticles have no ranging capability, and not really any lit reticles until you get to VX5s.
And the VX-Freedom? VX3? Sure, if I am Bill Gates, I can equip my squad with the high $ scopes that have the ranging. Leupold is missing the business that Primary Arms is gladly taking.@@southern842
You can call it what you want but marksmanship and individualism are more important from a civilian point of view than military. If I could fire 10000 rounds for each round fired from my opponent maybe I would. But since I can't I'll read the sniping and scouting manual and do what they say. Or follow my many years as a hunter. And I was through more tactical training than most non veterans
As a CMP-USAMU Military Rifle Instructor I assisted the USAMU deliver SDM Training from 2004 to 2011. For the most part the video here tells how it was. At any rate, back then the term DMR became a means to market AR’s to civilians on some sort of notion for what constituted a DMR rifle. It got lots of mouths drooling and hearts racing but none I have seen then or now are even close to the real deal built by the USAMU. Thing is though, the buyers of these DMR notions seem not to care about what’s important to good shooting and thus having a match grade DMR facsimile is as moot as it is meaningless. Bottom line is unless you learn things like angular measurement in mils and MOA, ranging distance to target, slope shooting, shooter/target analysis, and wind countering in addition to sight alignment and trigger control from a solid position, the “DMR” will get you no where. You can prove this by shooting in NRA 600 yard mid range competition where poor scores are a hallmark of shooters who have not been properly trained .BTW, a good training event is Small Arms Firing School. This three day program, presented by Champion Military Shooters, is held the last weekend in July at Camp Perry Ohio. It’s delivered to civilian shooters for about $40 which includes the use of a match conditioned AR and ammunition. At the end of the event shooters can enter an Army M16 Match to both test and celebrate their new found marksmanship knowledge and skills. Shooters who finish in top 10% get 4 points toward earning the prestigious US Distinguished Rifleman Badge.
Why it isn't necessary to focus too much on the DMR rifle itself. I would postulate that the DMR rifle DOES need to be different for a true DMR role. The Soviets understood this way back in the 1960s and 70s when they issued the 7.62x54R Dragunov to what we could call today, DMR, squad level marksman. At the same time, they were fielding 7.62x39 AKM's to rank and file soldiers. And the U.S. just began sort of playing catch up with an honest to God, DMR concept much later on. The realization that DMR's WERE needed on a modern battlefield simply led to the U.S. military, taking the ad hoc approach of slapping some optics on some rifles and changing a given trooper who could score well on a marksmanship course designation, and calling it good. This may have been a nice short-term, Band-Aid solution for a discovered problem. But it wasn't a well thought out, long-term solution behind an organized system for getting a higher number of trained and properly equipped DMR soldiers out on the battlefield.
If you want to become proficient in marksmanship with pistol, carbine and especially mid to long range rifle. start competing in PRS or NRL shooting, trust me you will build yourself into a much more proficient shooter
Make a vid that shows how war would really be. The civilian hears news that a group of guys are in a truck killing ppl. They gear up. Maybe they kill all of the bad guys. They take a few hit themselves. Tim's dad took a round to the hand (ruined), Bob took a round to the...
Glx 1-6 has gotten a bad rap. With YooToob reviewers. The M6 Griffen is a really good reticle. Range estimation is really good. The glass is pretty good. I have 2 Plx-c's with the Griffen. I have two Glx 1-6's as well. I'd be okay with the Glx. My two cousin's, my nephew, idiot brother n law and about 7 of my Marine buddies have bought a Glx 1-6. To great effect. And it's inexpensive. I have ran into a few that have the Slx ffp 1-8. Running a top dot. And it works for them. I came from that 8541 background and kinda scoffed at the ACSS. Because I was a dialer. But the reticle is legit. Especially the Griffen system. I'm not into the BDC's.
Lists of books on small unit tactics: www.amazon.com/shop/brent0331
**This website sells a lot quality reproductions of vintage camouflage patterns**:
onlinemilitaria.net/shopaff.asp?affid=1608
My favorite is W/SS plane tree overprint.
While I despise the state of America at large, I am extremely glad so many people are putting time and effort into the education of the common man. Nothing new for this channel, but as a community on CZcams and other platforms, content creators have been doing a great job lately.
Fair enough, plenty of valid criticisms of the government the citizens have allowed to get out of control for god knows how long
America good government bad
Brent: "Here's a 30min long esoteric discussion about the application of a more niche role and how it can be applied to broader roles."
Me: "Excellent, some good fucking content."
Thanks
2 deployments as a designated marksman here and I gotta say all the information put forth here is pure gold. Much appreciation guys
Based on comments, there are points which got missed by viewers:
DMR is a ROLE with a SKILLSET. It is NOT the rifle. So any rifle can, in the hands of a skilled user, do the job. And a fantastic rifle, in the hands of a sucky user, won't be much good in the role.
And the vid covers additional considerations. It is worth a careful listen.
Your right but the rifle can also make a difference. You dont want to have a 12" 5.56 rifle as a DMR role and would much rather have a 16"-20" 5.56 rifle
You also wrong because a designated marksman is different than a DMR because a DMR is a designated marksman RIFLE😊
@@recon1986 lol, good catch.
Having the capability helps.
Its easy to get confused when DMR means Designated Marksmen’s Rifle. Im guilty of saying DMR when referring to the role/skillset. When referring to the Role I believe “D.M” (Designated Marksman” is correct. But most of us are guilty of saying “DMR”.
I was a DM in 2004-2005 Baghdad. I used a parade grade off the shelf M-14 with a fiberglass stock. I was with a group in 03 that went to Camp Gruber and got better long range shooting instruction from a Civilian Contractor. Our supply sergeant obtained the side screw on rail thats an L bracket it meant the acope was over the iron sights so if needed you could use either. Supply Sergeant also got us Leupold 10X scopes. At that time the DM was more about laying precision fires in the 300-700 Meter zone where the M-4 starts to really suck shit accuracy wise. 4 months in i became a Rifle Squad leader and used the M-14. Based on our mission set all i can say is it worked. I almost forgot i traded some smoke grenades to the scouts for an entire can of M-118 match grade ammo. I got a lot of trigger time and M-118 compared to standard Ball is so good its almost like cheating.
I won the American High Power Rifleman Award in Long-Range mostly shooting M118LR pre production lot B from iron sight rifles including an M24, an M14, and a PO M40. I found at 600 yards I did just as well shooting M852 and since it kicked a lot less, I shot M852 to keep from being worn out in 600 x 3 events. You said you got better training from civilian contractor. In your time period there were only about 15 AMU guys to go around to teach the course. One solution to the manpower need was rounding up about 100 civilian Champion Service Rifle Shooters to assist the AMU through the help of the CMP. I was one of those qualified civilians and for almost 6 years as. CMP-USAMU labeled Military Rifle Instructor I assisted the USAMU deliver SDM, TTT, and SAFS Instruction. Overall the all volunteer group helped to train over 2700 Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen. At any rate, the CMP Instructors wore a blue polo shirt and 5.11 cargo trousers along with a blue windbreaker. You might recall some of these guys. I enjoyed teaching the course tremendously, mostly because I got to know many of the USAMU Service Rifle Section Competitors who, despite their trophies proving that they are the best shooters on the plant, still were very humble about it all.
@@charlesludwig9173 I salute you sir, all of you that helped us, your information, insite and techniques were invaluable.
“Anywhere in here, dude’s having a bad day.” This is the type of teachings that I can understand. 😂
A lot of long shots in cities laid out in grid patterns too. So don't immediately discount a longer range rifle just because you're in an urban AO
Thanks for posting the role of the DMR. I always knew what a DMR rifle was, but had a different idea of what the role was.
Having, say, a .308 AR as a DMR rifle is easily accounted for via everyone carrying a couple of extra AR 10 mags or even a box or 2 of .308. A lot of times the simple solution is the best.
As for a AR15 for DMR, that designated marksman should have 77gr OTM rounds in marked mags so they can max out the range of the platform. Again, maybe every man in the element carries a box or 2 of 77gr ammo to help the logistics out.
Just my thought, I like KISS
When I was in Afghanistan, some units would have pretty much everybody carry a mag of Mk. 262, even if they didn't have a Mk. 12 in the squad. The reason being it had much better terminal effect against people, especially up close, so whenever they had a rotating duty like an ECP, or highway checkpoint where they were dealing with people up close, they could load their mag of 262 and feel a little more confident that they could put somebody down faster.
I agree, guys need to think about the DM's weapon if he's carrying a different caliber like we do for crew served weapons. Just like we spread load machine gun ammunition/mortar rounds amongst the team/squad/platoon. Great points, thanks for watching and commenting.
Excellent
We need an anti drone role now, in a squad.
Be sure to get somebody who's good at shooting skeet 😏
@@jmmartin7766 Ha, yea that’s now tangible training.
At this particular point in time, you're better off staying hidden from them. Most drones are being used to artillery spot. If you're close enough to engage them with a shotgun or similar weapon you're essentially telling the enemy where you are. Professional military has Electronic warfare to bring to the fight.
@@Brent0331 Yea, but we’re humble militia, what about rival militias drones ?
@@nelson0110 There is Civ EW capability to consider.
If a rival Civ group has drones, how high are they flying? 100 ft? 500 ft? 1,000 ft? Only EW capability will allow you to do something about a drone 500+ ft up.
Look into Mexican cartel tactics and countermeasures.
Pros and cons to every approach. My background is comm pog but long range PRS competitions. I would pick higher magnification optic 3-18 with locking mil turrets, top mounted red dot, use 77gr 556 ammo and bipod. By making turrets for both 55gr and 77gr allows you to essentially have 2 different zeros. The 77gr ammo is exponentially more accurate and effective at range. I feel like this approach has the most versatility and you can relatively easily target ID and shoot out to 1k yards.
what the hell. I was thinking this during the drive to work then came back to post.
Their approach of 3x to 5x fixed magnification is really out of date. 20" barrel for 556 is too long too
The dot helps you orient your scope, which fixes the problem of figuring out where you're aiming, that they talked about in the second half of the video.
Plus the DMR can still fight alongside the rest of the squad under nods, cqb, masked up, shooting from a vehicle etc.
John Lovell recently discussed how the taliban used the placement of pockets on the BDU shoulder (raid mod style) as a way to differentiate between regular Army, and the Rangers during one of his deployments.
Look up Shawn Ryan Show ep. 80 for more of the specifics.
Yup, I watched that the other day. One of the reasons it was fresh in my mind when I was talking about this issue.
You should make a basic hand-to-hand and/or knife combat video. All these videos are gold, how the heck was I not able to find your channel sooner. Keep up the good work!
Good discussion. 👍
LPVO's have gotten really capable and extremely affordable these days. Even a Vortex Strike Eagle is really solid, and you can regularly find them on sale for half off.
ah no it’s not, the BDC on those is way off
@@brassvulcher8207 It completely depends on your barrel length and the specific ammo you use. No matter what it's a good idea to put your stuff into a ballistic calc with a chrono to get a better idea of what the BDC drops ACTUALLY mean for you. Strelok was amazing but you can't get it any more because I guess the dev is Russian.
@@Sophistry0001 Doesn’t line up with anything, there is a lot more to it then the moa they show you, or so called software , especially Istrelok. Only thing it kind of lined up with was wolf out of a 10.5”! that shit was way off! This was shot at range multiple times with professional shooters.
@@brassvulcher8207 Right, the 4 probably isn't going to translate to 400 yards unless you are using the specific barrel length and specific ammo and using the specific zero the drops were made for. For me, given chrono, barrel length, and my zero, the 4 might actually translate to more like 320. But you can know that ahead of time and tape that to the inside of your scope cap or your butt stock. And even if you can't figure out how to use the BDC, the strike eagle is still among the best bang for buck for LPVO. Every other BDC from every other manufacturer is gonna have the same limitation. I think primary arms also has a very strong offering in that budget range.
@@Sophistry0001 Lmao ok
Don’t forget that proper ammunition selection is crucial for this role. Heavier projectiles are less effected by the wind and typically maintain their velocity longer than lighter bullets. Which means you are more effective at greater distances.
My personal experience, Ive had great luck with IMI 77gr ot 5.56 and Federal 168gr smk .308 ammunition pretty consistently across multiple different firearms. However, i do recommend that you buy 1 box of ammunition to test in your rifle before dumping a bunch of money into this expensive match ammo. Don’t just go off what the internet deems “the best”.
Case and point, I bought A box of Black Hill mk262 77gr 5.56 to try out of my BCM recce 16in rifle. It produced 3.5-4in groups at best. Retested with IMI razorcore 5.56 and the group shrunk to 1.2 inches at 100yrds. But according to the internet, Black hills mk262 is the best production 5.56 on the market. Which it might be but my rifle hated it.
Great talk gents!!!
Fantastic information fellas! Thank you from another concerned citizen!
If fighting a guerilla war on your own territory, making everyone that's a good shot into DMR and sniper teams is going to be far more effective than running 9-12 man squads with just 1 and patrolling around. Squads, platoons, companies, etc are for taking and holding ground, something that is not sustainable against any uniformed, organized force.
Spamming AR15s for homestead/neighborhood/compound defense or small raid operations is great, but if you want to win a guerilla war without dying most insurgents would be better off with hunting rifles and battle rifles, making precise shots, and bouncing out of the area and blending back into the population.
Any sustained small unit operations is going to be met with specialized assets and youre going to get smoked. You need the capability to operate in small units for specific tasking, but in general, IRA type sniping amd bombing operations are far more costly and demoralizing to an occupying force than going toe to toe with an organized force.
I'd rather have a government showing up with suitcases of money to make you stop than larping as General Gates going toe to toe with redcoats on their terms .
Yea, you can say we kicked the shit out of the taliban the whole time, but they didnt have to win firefights and battles, they just had to survive and fight when they felt like it.
You know, if you find yourself with 20 guys, a legit belt fed gpmg and a dmr or two with teams capable of making an assault you could absolutely go toe to toe for a little while, right until every on station drone, airpower, and indirect fire all concentrate on you because you are what they have been waiting for the whole time.
Tell me im wrong. Just survivng and blending in would be the main thing, unless they start mass round ups and executions, then you have to do what you have to do. Also dont forget the capability to field test for gunshot residue, finger prints and detainment of citizens based on miniscule evidence.
This. People don't realize that militia/guerilla activities in a 21st century stateside conflict are going to look a lot more like crime than soldiering.
@@listen_to_the_wizard321
Yep.
Homemade "bumps in the road" are at least as important as rifles in a modern insurgency, maybe even more so.
Wars in general are won by maximizing cost to the enemy while minimizing cost to yourself.
It sounds like your assumption for a 2nd US Civil War would be patriots vs the US military. I don't think that is how it would play out, but that's just my opinion.
@Kriss_L
Instead of playing hypotheticals, let's just look at some history and draw some inferences. Most people don't know this.
A lot of people didn't think the 1st civil war would play out that way either, especially since men in the north typically didn't want to fight the south.
While many US soldiers were against fighting their brothers, many left one army for the other, the US government opened the borders and recruited Irish and Germans wholesale. The US Army in the 1860s was nearly 50% foreign born and 1st generation foreigners while the CSA was 90+% American born dating back to the revolution, including many natives.
Now, I'm no genius, but the government has opened the gates now, and pays for everyone coming, often gifting them more than some US citizens earn, definitly more than e1s and e2s. It would not take long to recruit warm bodies out of this endless supply by making obligation part of the deal. A good portion of nationalists and say "traditional americans" were purged after Biden took office. There were crackdowns for "racism" and not taking the jabo.
I don't believe in coincidences. I think it takes a very narrow view to think any nation's military wouldn't conduct homeland operation, it's happened for time immortal, and just as often using foreigners and mercenaries to do it under a nation's flag while fighting the inhabitants of that nation.
The Vietnamese made sure their losses didn’t overtake their birth rate, it was just a waiting game.👍
Great info, I appreciate the effort it takes to make these.
The more courses that are taking military topics and analyzing them in a civilian context the better.
Had a friend who was groundpounder in The Corps, in Operation Steel Curtain.. he never complained not once of the 5.56 being ineffective.
This MAY run up my alley, given my age (63) level of fitness (...meh.) and situational awareness (..mm'okay.).
Another fantastic video Brent thank you !
Thanks
Wow this is excellent information . Thank you guys
Many other in the comments have said this, but the DM role in my opinion is fundamentally the most effective choice for insurgents. If you look back on our own history, the American rifleman was the proto-DM of his day. We used long range, high priority targeting to decimate the greatest military in the world, at the time. And while their military was more effective than ours, we did not necessarily need to win large scale engagements, much like the Taliban, viet-cong, and other insurgents throughout history. Hit, run, live to fight another day. Take only engagements you are capable of winning, target high priority assets, and inflict morale casualties whenever possible. A group of marksmen would be more effective than a group of conventionally armed fighters in an American homeland insurgency.
Brent, your rifle is so well camouflaged that I can barely see what it is! 👏🏻 great paint job. Did you do it yourself? It be cool if you made a video and maybe a tutorial on painting a carbine.
Yes I did and that video was made already many years ago.
Great conversation guys
I may live in the midwest, but the entire reason I've been turned off of the AR10 .308 platform is the lack of standardization, and the comparatively proprietary and expensive rifle being very much locked in to a niche of precision shooting due to weight and recoil. It's just way too niche to justify the cost and effort. I'd sooner make do with an 18" AR15 upper with a stronger optic for much less headache.
In my limited experience it seems more likely to have extended range shots in an urban vs rural environments. In a city or town you have straight streets and elevated firing positions that offer longer range shots.
Great as usual!!!
Great video dmr's will play a huge role in wrol of some kind u a very versatile firearm
Always appreciate the info you put out
Thanks
Really good video. I just got (couple months ago) an Primary Arms 1x6 ACSS for my new 5.56 dedicated winter rifle.
I'll put that set up on my to do list. Thanks, gentlemen!
If you built an AR-10, an adjustable gas block is a must in my opinion.
I am watshing this from Germany as a zivillian, it is very interesting. Thank you very much.
PS: Brent, I saw you with one show on the German TV. You are a movi Star ; ) that for shissel
Was just randomly thinking about this today. Cant believe you released a video just 3 months ago.
As far as 1-8 options, check into the UTG. It’s cheaper than other options, about as clear as Primary Arms to my eye, and about $100 less expensive. Maybe not what you want, but is an option to consider. That said, I love my Primary Arms and Vortex LPVOs.
Other than cost, is there any reason the entire squad shouldn't be running LVPOs?
At ~ the 14:45 mark: you did a good job of skirting the topic of "the meat-puppet in the Oval Office who threw away the 20-year long exercise in nation building needs to be impeached and executed for treason." Kudos for taking the high road; you're a better man than I, Gunga Din!
Oh do you mean that this puppet is worse than the last puppet, or any other puppet since the late 1800s?
Thanks for sharing too, very informative :)
Good words as always!
Excellent info
It costs money when mistakes are made with gear, listen to these guys.
You guys bring up some great point about the DNR’s role in a military and the armed civilians rolesI. I may have to look into getting an AR 10.
Nice video! What kind of camo smocks are you guys wearing?
12:28 Just cracked up at Brent’s on the fly heated ‘Nam rant…you can feel the passion haha
The camo twins! One man one rifle. Opinions vary but it would seem an accurate/Vari-powered scoped AR10 .308 would be about the best to fill the 'all around role'. In a team environment the options are wide open. I'm old school and would prefer a Rem BA HB in 30-06 with a mil-dot reticle 10X scope but would like the accompaniment of a soul taker/skull crusher with an AR15/10 platform. The DMR is a 'designated' role and usually an 'optimized weapon' platform but skill compensates. That ACSS reticle rocks - need to get one on something! Snipers are usually pretty good at the camouflage craft and don't walk around in a ghillie suit advertising it.
I'm in the middle of making my DMR build. I'm going to make an AR10 18" 1:8 twist .308 with a 1x-8x LPVO a 3 prong flash hider and a bipod. I'm also not sure if I want to make it like an M110 with a fixed buttstock or have a nice adjustable riser based buttstock
Just an idea I'm throwing out but a guerilla fighter gear setup would be very cool to see.
Thanks for the knowledge. Gung Ho
Despite having a Trijicon accupower 1-8x28mm ffp, which I primarily used with my LMT MWS308 in the 16" barrel configuration, I was never sold on the concept of the LPVO (too heavy & reticle obscures too much of target at distance). As mentioned here a 2.5-10 or 2.5-8 SFP is preferable to me on a DMR. That being said a 4x prism optic, preferably a TA31 RCO, is more than adequate to get combat effective hits out to 500 yards, possibly further depending on conditions and caliber.
I really like Primary Arms offerings
Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 (2-10). Everything you need for the DMR roll.
What kind of camo are they wearing? Looks nice
Brent what is your take on a 2 to 3 man team. Multiple LPVOs?
Thoughts on the spr?
Any thoughts of a 30mm 4-20X50 FFP MRAD? I’m putting it on a 16” AR10. Any recommendations on mag pouches for .308 pmags (20 rounds) ?
Some thoughts, “A” Way, on all the different names / abbreviations.
Name: Range Capability, Other Considerations
Short Barreled Rifle: 0-200 meters, Member of squad,
General Purpose Rifle: 0-300 meters, Member of squad
Designated Marksman Rifle: 0-600 meters, >10 lbs total weight, Member of squad
Reconnaissance (REECE) Rifle: 0-600 meters, 10 lbs total weight, likely different cartridge than rest of unit. May or may not be member of squad
What are those hoodies you guys are wearing? That's a cool looking pattern and the jacket itself looks cool as well.
0241 tactical "nonameh" pattern
Whats the camo you guys are wearing?
DMR optic to give you the most capability is a 2x10-32 w/RMR on top.
acro* on top
@@nonyabusinessinc True.
> 2-10
This hasn't been relevant for about 15 years now
We have 1-8s and 3-18s in the $1500-2400 price bracket that vastly outperform any 2-10 of any price
Even at lower price like $800, viper PST 1-6 and VX freedom 4-12 TMR stomps the shit out of any 2-10 on the market for those applications
Sweet camo that on your smocks! What's it called?
I deployed as as SDM to Afghanistan. One big POU that was never brought up in this discussion was PID. 5, 6x isn't going to do that at any decent range at all. I'd run 2.5-10, 2-12, whatever MPVO then piggyback or offset a red dot if I had it to do all over again.
24 inch ar 10 6.5 creed bipod scope. What I thinking would be top for this position. I have always Ben the DM in my situation. Prefer longer barrel to utilize cover concealment better.
I think at that point you're moving into sniper rifle territory. With that long of a barrel and a significantly less common caliber you're probably more well set up for sitting still and shooting a thousand yards than getting attached to a squad. Still useful, but a different role
I had been thinking about the DMR rifle also doubling in the role for suppressive fire. I've seen a few other channels talk about this. So the DMR would be set up with a binary trigger and D60 mags.
If you approach things from a "target priority" perspective, putting both roles on someone is asking too much.
Asking both tasks of a rifle gets expensive.
Light support weapons and methods are very different from DM methods and roles. Your LSW will use cones of fire, and potentially grazing fire or plunging fire.
DM is point target fire and precision fire.
Putting a binary trigger on a marksman rifle takes away the entire point of having a marksman rifle.
Yes, the binaries on the market are not marksman triggers. @@AmirShafeek
Neither of the rifles in the video have suppressors. How important would you rate those nowadays? For example, if you can choose either but want to keep barrel length manageable for a general purpose / SPR role (556/223), what would you prefer: an 11.5 - 14.5’’ with suppressor vs a 18-20’’ without one? Thanks again! Excellent as always.
For a DMR I would not dip into 11-14.5 inch barrel range if it can be avoided, I talked about that in the video, specifically talking about a squad outfitted with M4s while the DMR had an M16A4. In the end the DM is a role and can do the job with the same rifle as everyone else, but if we can better equipment that DM with a rifle best suited for his capability that's ideal. There are shortfalls to using suppressors that people ignore probably because they look cool. For a DM in an infantry team/squad, Barrel length is far more important then a suppressor in my opinion. These guys are operating within a squad/team not individual snipers. Look at Marines now with their M27 IARs with 16 inch barrels and suppressors added to them. Those weapons look like big heavy muskets now. I laugh because guys use to bitch about the weight and length of the M16A4 back in day, now look at the IAR's length and weight with a LPVO, PEQ and suppressor. Suppressors get very hot, very quick, add significant weight and length to the end of the rifle (not the most ideal place you want to add weight to a weapon), and gunk up your weapon faster. Do they have a use and purpose, sure, is it absolutely necessary that you have it on a DMR, I don't think so, definitely NOT at the cost of having to drop down into SBR barrel lengths to accommodate it.
I heard from Aussie SAS, that at night, they didn’t want to be near the SAW gunner. Because He didn’t have a Suppressor to hide His Muzzle flash.
So He took all the Afghan return Fire.
I really want a 3x12 acss fory 20"
Is there any truth to green tip not being effective to non-armored targets?
We all like to think of 21st century rifleman/infrantry having 'modern rifles'..and yet its interesting as a civ to learn that a large % in GWOT era had iron sights.
Its more shocking knowing how open Afghan/Iraq geography is: are to think about not having an LPVO.
Hey Squad Designated Marksmen Candidates out there, here's a test just for grins and giggles: 1. the target is 600 yards out, line of sight distance and the target is 38 degrees uphill. What is the flat ground distance to target using a cosign of .7880? 2. the target is 300 yards out and there's a crosswind raising dust and blowing loose paper from right to left. What is the needed favor for wind in MOA and inches at target distance using an MOA wind constant of 10 ? 3. the target is 36 inches in diameter and appears to be 6 MOA in diameter as seen on optic reticle. How far out is the target in yards?
How important is the forward assist in a dmr platform? I really like the sabre10 from psa (m110ish clone) but the billet version like the original m110 doesnt come with a forward assist. Is thisna deal breaker for you? Why wouldnt the original m110 from KAC have forward assist?
Who makes the hoodies you guys are wearing? I need me one of them
0241 Tactical
What camouflage pattern is that?
Where did the anoraks come from?
0241 Tactical
ALWAYS engage the squirrels first! Everything else is a lower priority.
Forgive me for the mildly unrelated comment, but what do you think about testing these camo patterns or colors?
Field Grey or Wolf Grey (Wehrmacht used these, as have a number of security agencies and the Confederate Army. How effective would they have been, and in what environment(s)?)
Horizon Blue (The French wore these in WW1.)
Flannel/Plaid (Hunters swear by these for hunting, and I reckon they are inexpensive or plentiful to come by. Almost every civilian would have at least one of these, which will likely include guerillas in a hypothetical situation where they were necessitated in North America. You can probably compare a colorful (traditionally red) or vibrant flannel with an earthier or drab-colored one. Make it an April Fools joke if you want)
UCP dyed Brown or Khaki (an approximation to the Ukrainian Camouflage pattern. I've also seen some fellas dye their UCPs with instant coffee or Walnut to try and blend in with their woody locales)
Pink (apparently the brits colored some of their vehicles pink during the Persian Gulf War)
Ranger Green (Some say its better than OD Green. No idea if it actually is though. It's somewhat close to a grayish color, hence why I also suggested you test grey)
Helikon Tex Adaptive Green (Another shade of green. I've heard, however, that some may misidentify the color as brown or a more saturated shade of green depending on lighting conditions or perception)
Omani DPM (Saw administrative results wear 'em once. They're pretty drip, but I worry they're a little too orange. If you can't find them, perhaps an approximation will do)
CQR Utility Camo (A company named CQR sells a sort of imitation of Multicam or OCP called Utility Camo on their apparel. It's rather identical, but with few gradients and sharper edges on their splotches.)
Tie-Dye (Either colorful, or in natural colors. If folks had nothing else, they might take an old t-shirt and tie-dye it to get a fractal-styled pattern. You can compare spiral patterns with striped patterns, etc.)
Anyone else wanna pitch in some ideas?
If you've been an avid viewer of this channel, you should realize by now that fieldcraft matters way more than specific camo choice if your only consideration is concealment
Even choices that don't intuitively make sense, like standard multicam in snow, works just fine
Your actual concern should be getting outside and learning how/when to move to minimize detection, not buying new uniforms for minor visual disruption
The reason why there are so many different camos to begin with is NOT color matching terrain necessarily but IFF
There's some overlap in the basic design layout of a DMR and a pseudo LSW as far as choice of barrel and often optics go. I've seen it proposed that the same weapon can potentially pull double duty for both roles.
I see the argument but I'm not totally convinced. Is it more effective to teach a DM to shoot like a SAW gunner or to teach a SAW gunner to shoot like a DM? They'll revert to their base level of training under stress. Who do you want them to be when the shit hits and instinct takes over?
Why not have 2 guys, 2 guns. They can swap guns if one goes down on a mission. Two is one, one is none.
SAW is a LMG. It has linked belts and can change barrels. It's for sustained fire (even if not totally used that way by recent US doctrine).
The LSW is a highly mobile cone of fire weapon with short duration since it has a fixed barrel. It should have a heavy barrel so the user can do bursts/cone of fire, or just be a bullet hose on semi. It should also have a bipod.
The DM can be a standard rifle with irons, used by the best shot in the group. It's a ROLE, not a Weapon. Giving a sucky shot a great rifle doesn't fix the sucky skillset.
@@woodsghost9088 autism and missing the point
@@mr.stotruppen8724 my dude, maybe I did miss your point. I thought your points were 1) people say the same rifle can be used for 2 different roles, 2) you are not convinced that is a good idea, mostly because 3) the training would be different.
And I replied with "the guns have very different mission sets so need to be built different." And then I'm also not addressing, but basically agree with your reference to training for a particular role. Trying to get the same PERSON to fill both roles is stupid.
Trying to fill 2 different roles with the same gun is, in my opinion, unwise.
Exactly what distances, conditions and tasks are typical for designated marksman? Could you provide a fictional debriefing of a month of a DM's life? Such as, "I did X on that day at X distance, then I did X at a distance of X and then I switched to doing X at X distance". I've heard about 100 times more about the rifle than about the rifleman himself and how he achieves his tasks...
I taught the course from 2004 to 2011 and although the idea was to teach soldiers to get good center of mass hits on the E target from 300 to 600 meters the actual training was subject to the Post’s range accommodations, sometimes less than 600 meters. Also, typically the ACOG would not be used except at the longer distances, since the idea was to get mid range hits with rack grade iron sight A4’s and M4’s. Regarding what was taught, measuring in MOA and mil angular units of measurement, slope shooting, wind countering using MOA wind constant of 7 or 10 depending on issued ammunition, shooter/target analysis, consistent sight alignment, smooth trigger control, and building a steady position using bone and artificial support.
@@charlesludwig9173 That's teaching a course of fire. I was wondering what the typical tasks of a designated marksman ON THE BATTLEFIELD would be. How much shooting he does at long range VS how much shooting he does in typical combat inside of 100 yards. What does he actually do and how much of it?
Sweet jackets/hoodies. Would you be willing to share where you two got them from?
0241 Tactical
I appreciate that this kind of logic can be discussed but not delivered through the lense of high speed cool guy operator. Because that’s not what a prepared citizen is. Or does.
@20:12....Grandthumb and his stooges hit that plate all day from that distance. Are they fake or just really good shots?
How about a guy in a DMR role, who carries his DMR (ie a light bolt gun like one of the Savage offerings with a scope- Mine is in .30-06) as well as his M4? I can carry a full rifleman's 5.56 load out in my kit, in addition to my DMR, and extra rounds for it...
Too much gun. How much hiking have you done with an AR in your hands, web gear/body armor, assault pack/rucksack, pistol belt, and a bolt gun on your back, with chow, water, medical, and ammo for all 3 weapon systems? Try going prone with two long guns. How about jumping over a fence or climbing over a log? Better to just carry one long gun that blurs both roles together. Easier to train on one weapon system anyway.
@@Mega1234rt I can't disagree with you, although it would only be two weapons. I train regularly with my AR, and I have a 3x magnifier to augment my red dot on it. I was just thinking about possibly having more fire power and capability... but the trade offs may outweigh the benefits. Thanks for the reply
DMR, as said in the vid, is ROLE or a SKILLSET, not a Rifle.
So the DMR role can be done with an AR and 3x magnifier. Or a 3-9 scoped bolt gun. Or a laser rifle in the 40 watt range, or whatever.
Do whatever you want. Get your gear out and haul it as you plan to use it. Maybe you plan to ride around in a truck? Or walk 20 miles a day for a week without resupply. I don't know what your plan or context is. Just train and practice what you anticipate happening.
If you listen to the discussion John and I had in this video, your suggestion goes against multiple points we raised from weapon setup, to a DMs role, to letting the enemy know exactly who/what you are.
@@Brent0331 I did-- and your instruction has been heeded. #1) I was just throwing it out there, and #2) I really don't want to carry another 7-ish pound rifle + ammo around. My load out is pretty set
Wow
You should release a video of you going down all the rabbit holes you clearly want to go down.
In the civilian application for Minutemen - the AR-10 cannot be carried/used by everyone - telletubbies or slightly built females with 40% less upper body strength cannot haul the platform with their biceps, or the ammo. The DM key issue is the ACSS reticle so that ranging and more precise shots can be placed. I really love Leupolds (light, great glass, great eye relief, great durability), but their reticles have no ranging capability, and not really any lit reticles until you get to VX5s.
What civilian application requires teletubbies and females to carry a rifle?
And the VX-Freedom? VX3? Sure, if I am Bill Gates, I can equip my squad with the high $ scopes that have the ranging. Leupold is missing the business that Primary Arms is gladly taking.@@southern842
BLM Riots, a flood of illegal aliens, ATF/IRS/FEDGOV attacking citizens - our society is becoming a target rich environment@@griftinggamer
@@griftinggamerCivil War, massive global economic collapse, nation wide (mostly peaceful) riots and looting, etc...
You can call it what you want but marksmanship and individualism are more important from a civilian point of view than military. If I could fire 10000 rounds for each round fired from my opponent maybe I would. But since I can't I'll read the sniping and scouting manual and do what they say. Or follow my many years as a hunter. And I was through more tactical training than most non veterans
I still would take a 4x32 acog for a dm role
As a CMP-USAMU Military Rifle Instructor I assisted the USAMU deliver SDM Training from 2004 to 2011. For the most part the video here tells how it was. At any rate, back then the term DMR became a means to market AR’s to civilians on some sort of notion for what constituted a DMR rifle. It got lots of mouths drooling and hearts racing but none I have seen then or now are even close to the real deal built by the USAMU. Thing is though, the buyers of these DMR notions seem not to care about what’s important to good shooting and thus having a match grade DMR facsimile is as moot as it is meaningless. Bottom line is unless you learn things like angular measurement in mils and MOA, ranging distance to target, slope shooting, shooter/target analysis, and wind countering in addition to sight alignment and trigger control from a solid position, the “DMR” will get you no where. You can prove this by shooting in NRA 600 yard mid range competition where poor scores are a hallmark of shooters who have not been properly trained .BTW, a good training event is Small Arms Firing School. This three day program, presented by Champion Military Shooters, is held the last weekend in July at Camp Perry Ohio. It’s delivered to civilian shooters for about $40 which includes the use of a match conditioned AR and ammunition. At the end of the event shooters can enter an Army M16 Match to both test and celebrate their new found marksmanship knowledge and skills. Shooters who finish in top 10% get 4 points toward earning the prestigious US Distinguished Rifleman Badge.
Why it isn't necessary to focus too much on the DMR rifle itself.
I would postulate that the DMR rifle DOES need to be different for a true DMR role.
The Soviets understood this way back in the 1960s and 70s when they issued the 7.62x54R Dragunov to what we could call today, DMR, squad level marksman.
At the same time, they were fielding 7.62x39 AKM's to rank and file soldiers.
And the U.S. just began sort of playing catch up with an honest to God, DMR concept much later on.
The realization that DMR's WERE needed on a modern battlefield simply led to the U.S. military, taking the ad hoc approach of slapping some optics on some rifles and changing a given trooper who could score well on a marksmanship course designation, and calling it good.
This may have been a nice short-term, Band-Aid solution for a discovered problem.
But it wasn't a well thought out, long-term solution behind an organized system for getting a higher number of trained and properly equipped DMR soldiers out on the battlefield.
pythagorean theorem right triangle a^2 + b^2 = c^2.
You're missing the 3-9 variable
If you want to become proficient in marksmanship with pistol, carbine and especially mid to long range rifle. start competing in PRS or NRL shooting, trust me you will build yourself into a much more proficient shooter
First attend the USAMU’s Small Arms Firing School.
Make a vid that shows how war would really be. The civilian hears news that a group of guys are in a truck killing ppl. They gear up. Maybe they kill all of the bad guys. They take a few hit themselves. Tim's dad took a round to the hand (ruined), Bob took a round to the...
I sense the MK12 will return.
Why recommend 5x or 3x when you can have a all in one?
Size and weight. Do you use the 1-5 levels on your 1-6x LPVO?
@@fiskersproductions ye i do. The size and wieight aint that Big deal for me
Damn Brent, your AR10 is so well painted I had a hard time differentiating it from your jacket.
Thanks
Glx 1-6 has gotten a bad rap. With YooToob reviewers. The M6 Griffen is a really good reticle. Range estimation is really good. The glass is pretty good. I have 2 Plx-c's with the Griffen. I have two Glx 1-6's as well. I'd be okay with the Glx. My two cousin's, my nephew, idiot brother n law and about 7 of my Marine buddies have bought a Glx 1-6. To great effect. And it's inexpensive.
I have ran into a few that have the Slx ffp 1-8. Running a top dot. And it works for them. I came from that 8541 background and kinda scoffed at the ACSS. Because I was a dialer. But the reticle is legit. Especially the Griffen system. I'm not into the BDC's.