3 Ways to Clean 78 RPM Records
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
- Hello, this is the 78 Collectors channel, a new channel devoted to collecting 78 rpm records and my name is Joe. So first I want to answer the question “Why collect 78s?” There are several reasons. Recorded music began in the late 1800s, and until roughly 1950 recordings were primarily 78 rpm singles. From 1948 to 1960 or 61 many records were sold as both 78s and 45s, so the first 60-70 year of recorded music is documented in 78 rpm recordings. During this critical period blues, rock and roll, country music, and jazz evolved from ragtime into the genres that we recognize today setting the stage for all that was to follow.
For me personally, about half of my collection consists of 60s-70s rock LPs, and I love that music. However, I began to wonder where the music I loved came from? Who were the artists that influenced Elvis, Little Richard, and other early rockers?
On this channel we will discuss the records of the first half of the 20th century, with a focus on how the music evolved, the principal artists, and the growing industry that recorded them. All of this recording history is documented in shellac on 78 rpm records.
In addition, we will also discuss issues related to collecting 78s, like ideas for finding them, how to clean them, how to store them, and online resources related to collecting records.
I am hoping that the comment section for these videos will provide an opportunity for a discussion, comments, and corrections where necessary. I only ask that you please be considerate of others in your comments. I intend to release a new video every week
If this sounds interesting to you please press the subscribe button and the thumbs up below. It will be greatly appreciated.
This video demonstrates 3 methods that I use for cleaning 78 RPM records. The first uses a manual Spin Clean record cleaner. The second method demonstrated cleaning of 78 RPM records with a VPI record cleaning machine. The third method demonstrates record cleaning with a motorized ultrasonic cleaner. -Joe - Hudba
This is a terrific viewing of the various ways to clean 78s and I really enjoyed watching it. I have been collecting records since I was 12 years old and am now 77. The best method I have seen to clean, not only 78s, but all records is by using a hard surface, micro-fiber towel, or a clean tee-shirt, and Glass Plus. Glass Plus doesn't have any alcohol, nor ammonia, in it and cleans records as clean as they can get... just my 2¢.
I agree with @arvinwcasas . Rinse aid almost certainly contains alcohol which will damage shellac
I just use a mild dish washing detergent, luke warm water, and a shoe brush. It makes suds when I scrub, and I rinse them off before drying. A little time consuming, but it gets the job done, doesn't leave them with any residue, and is cheap.
Thank you so much for your advice. I've inherited a good collection of 78's from my great grandfather, who was a jazz trombonist in the army. I can't wait to bring them back to life.
Is he someone we may know?
By chance, did he work with Glenn Miller?
I inherited a collection of boxes from my mother that included several albums of old 78s--I was very happy to find valuable information on how to clean them right away, and I appreciated that you showed several different methods. Thank you for the demonstration.
I've been a record collector since I was about 12 years old. I have roughly, eight thousand + 78 rpm records and I clean them all the same. A horse hair shoe polish applicator, a little dish soap, and a cool stream of sink water... rinse well and use a soft cloth to dry. I can't think of a time, in my 42 years as a collector, the cleaning process hasn't worked. As you know and probably mentioned in this video, shellac is fragile, much care has to be given to these records, when handling. Thanks for your upload and the information.
I have used a micro-fiber and foam (I guess you'd call it that) paint pad for years. You can feel the fine bristles getting down into the grooves. As much as I love the idea of the ultrasonic tank, my paint pad is less than $10.00. My biggest takeaway from your video is the use of GV Rinse Aid and not having to rinse the record of dishwasher soap. I'll be looking for it, next trip to Wallyworld. Thanks for sharing.
Sure
Thanks so much. A dear friend gifted me with a bunch of 78s he dumpster dived.
Great show
Tripped on your video and subbed ...on my channel have done a couple 78 videos but honestly never really knew how to clean them.Thanx for sharing and take care
I just use mild soap and water with a soft cloth, then gently rinse. Never had a problem with it. I won't immerse it in water. I try to keep the paper part dry.
I think that is fine. Just don’t make the water too hot.
I can only advise the method using a vacuum cleaner with the cleaning fluid. Shellac and filler, of which 78's are made, are extremely porous and hygroscopic material and water immediately penetrates the record deep under the surface. Trying to dry the record with a cloth or leaving it in a dry warm place is not going to do it. But the fatal effect of water on a 78 is not immediately visible; you'll think the record is clean and dry but the destruction will only show over time. Water, trapped inside the record, will eventually cause the shellac/filler to expand; that is the reason why so few records from the 1920's are still really shiny; because they have not been kept in a dry environment. When new, all records, even the worst pressings, were shiny and without surface noise. It's getting wet and/or being kept in a damp environment that has deteriorated the surface over time, ranging from slight dulling to heavy gritting. Cleaning a record with water and not vacuum drying it will severely add to that deterioration. The only safe way to clean a 78 is to use special 78 cleaning fluid and a vacuum record cleaner like the one shoen here or this one which I highly recommend; expensive, yes, but it is the very best way to clean an preserve a 78, many of which (at least in my collection) are worth more than this machine!
www.nittygrittyinc.com/product/record-master-2
This was very helpful.
I'm going through my mom's collection that she received from a friend, it was his brother's collection. Cool stuff, Hank Williams, even Hank as Luke the drifter. May West, Bing Crosby, lots of Christmas classics. Johnny Cash, Wilf Carter,The big Bopper Purple people eater, a lot of old Country, Gospel, Big Band, Irish, a variety. I didn't count them but I estimate at least 500 78 rpms. Thanks for the info about sleeves, I'll probably buy 100 at a time and go from there......as for cleaning them, you gave me this idea, I just found a new life to an old turntable that still spins the records, but doesn't play well.
thank you brother
The best video on youtube!
Joe, tried to use the email listed but not working
I thoroughly enjoyed you video on 3 ways to clean 78s. Very informative and well done.
My father was an super avid record collector from 1935 on. During the first 25 years he amassed a huge collection of 78s. His goal was to own every recording of his favorite song, Stardust by Hoagy Carmichael. He also collected music in general as this was his passion. I have well over 5,000 records.
Long story short, they sat in the basement f the family home for way too long. The records never moved from there for over 55 years. My older brother moved into the house after Dad & Mom moved to Florida in the late 80s. After my older brother passed in 2016. I hauled them out to a storage unit. I recently brought them to my retirement house where I have a very large climate controlled garage.
Now to getting them organized and most important cleaned. Many of the books, records etc have a chalky white mold or mildew on them. Testing a few it almost all comes off with simple detergent bath and a toothbrush. However you can still see some type of spotting on the record. Obviously I will eventually get a system like you suggested to speed up the general cleaning process.
Tony Foster
Painter VA
757-442-2340
Tony
Washing records by hand can be very effective but as you say it is very time consuming. Simple dish detergents do a pretty good job of cleaning them. I also have a collection of about 5000 records. Cleaning them was a labor of love. Good luck with your collection. Joe
Very nice
In india majority of movie songs recorded on 78 are the ever green and I have a lot of these records but very difficult to handle because they easily broke thanks for your cleaning video
Hi Joe, great video of pros and cons of the three methods. I'm of the type who buys collections, so the ultrasonic method would suit me best. You mentioned in your video that you might do another video comparing the effectiveness of each. I think that would be a great follow-up. I guess my opinion would be, unless the non-ultra sonic methods cleaned records far better, there would be no reason not to go with ultra-sonic for the sake of convenience. Have you cleaned any pre-1940s shellac? Just wondering how older shellac would hold up to ultrasonic. Thanks again for your very informative video.
My 78s are circa 1950, which I'm told were actually made of vinyl by that point. However, I'm not certain how widespread the use of vinyl was by then. Not sure if it was used by smaller labels or in the UK (where many of my records were made).
In the early 1950s “Unbeakable” records began to appear. MGM records was a pioneer in this are. I am not sure what material these records were made from. They are more brittle than today’s vinyl record and definitely can be broken.
Hi Joe, thanks for the video. Could you tell me the brand and model number of the ultrasonic machine and particularly, the model of your motor spindle, record label protectors and spacers. I have not been able to locate a magnetic one anywhere and think it's slick. I'm thinking of buying the sonic but they are so expensive. Thanks in advance! Wayne
Hi Joe, I too have been looking for the same spindle and spacers. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks Joe for the recommendation on the detergents. I use a Spin Clean that I modified with retention screws/bolts to keep the rollers from riding up. They just go through the sides of the walls of the unit and into the open space of each side of the rollers. I found that with at least my Spin Clean the pad pressure was such that the discs want to ride up and push the opposite roller under pressure out. I also use compressed air to blow dry a record become wiping down with a cotton towel. The vacuum on that one unit seems pretty cool! Does the ultrasonic unit do a better job than the Spin Clean in your opinion?
I thing that the ultrasonic is a better cleaner. I have put records into the ultrasonic after spin cleaning and the water becomes discolored. However I have not tried the same experiment with ultrasonic cleaning and then spin cleaning.
@@josephdavila6798 You should also try running the ultrasonic cleaner a second time and see if the water still becomes discolored. (using fresh water and cleaning detergent) to see if the unit is dissolving shellac.
I have seen the people like me who love music on records 78,33,45 rpm is minimum 50 years or plus
Hello I found a Muddy Waters/ Rollin stone / Walking blues 78 along with a BB King 3 o'clock blues for 25 cents a piece.
They are pretty scratched but still play without a skip do you think those are worth trying to clean ?
These are very desirable records but of course condition is a major issue. Nevertheless I think cleaning them is definitely worth it. Joe
Thank you very much for the information. I am curious about the ultrasonic cleaner. I'm concerned that the sound waves could actually add micro pits in the record surface. I ruined a pair of glasses that were plastic lens by using an ultrasonic device made for glasses. If the lenses had been glass they would have been fine but I totally ruined them with micro pits and had to replace them. Why wouldn't the same happen to 78 records?
Thanks for the email. I have never experienced damage from the ultrasonic cleaner on shellac (78s) or vinyl records. Perhaps it was the cleaning solution that you used? I really don’t know.
I tested cleaning one excellent condition 78 (1940's Victor) and it left a whole bunch of black shellac bits at the bottom of the tank. Never clean 78s in Ultrasonic. Will cause micro pitting. Yea will LOOK clean but destroyed sound quality.
Thanks Joe! I'm investigating moving to ultrasonic cleaning. I currently use a DIY RCM built around the VPI wand. I get good results but have wondered if ultrasonic would do better. I'm looking at the Isonic unit.
I have around 4,000 78s with the oldest one being a Berliner from 1898, going up to 1957.
One quick question - Do you use distilled water with your spin cleaner?
No. I use warm tap water
It seems a common recommendation for 78RPM users to clean with tap water.
That is the 100% the opposite of every vinyl cleaning recommendation because of the minerals in tap water that could add pops and clicks on playback.
I don’t know if it’s a money saving issue or that people don’t care as much about sound quality and care of the 78s but I’ve yet to see a video like this that doesn’t say to use tap water.
I think that distilled water is in principle better because it does not introduce mineral deposits that could contribute to noise. However the practical issue is that 78s are noisy even if they are in the best condition. Most 78s have been heavily played and are not in pristine condition. For me, cost is also an issue. My ultrasonic cleaner uses a few liters on water and this can be very expensive if one is cleaning 50-several hundred records where the water must be changed several times. In addition I quickly vacuum the water off of the record, minimizing the likelihood of mineral deposition on the surface. Drying with a clean microfiber cloth is likely to accomplish this also. These are my reasons for using tap water, you need to decide for yourself on the process that you want to use.
@@josephdavila6798 reverse osmosis systems will cut that cost to practically 0 over time. Just get one that screws into a regular faucet. A splitter on your cold water faucet in laundry m Use that same drain for what R/O does spits out. R/o filters at this rate of use would last many years at a time. NO wasting plastic or long hauling from the store.
How do the records sounds after? I’ve gone to greater lengths cleaning LP’s but becUse of the wider grooves and more surface noise anyway, I don’t spend as much time cleaning 78’s and don’t mind rinsing them in the sink carefully with a brush. But I’d like to know how your results are
Cleaning 78 rpm records usually improve their sound when played. It reduces the background noise. Some records however have groove damage from excessive playing. The have what is referred to as “graying”. If you look at the grooves under a microscope they have a fuzzy appearance. I think that this is likely the source of the noise. So I guess the bottom line is that cleaning will make a record sound as good as it can but it cannot fix everything.
Yes that makes sense and I’ve definitely seen graying records as you described. As always condition is paramount.
Water . Not alcoholic solution..
You mentioned you use a Rinse-Aid as your detergent in your solution. Rinse-Aids, by themselves are not detergents (unless they state they are an all in one) Rinse-aid are a combination of water, surfactants and miscellaneous chemicals to break down hard water and of course in your example CI Acid Blue 9 which is a dye. (It makes the rinse aid blue). IMHO drop the rinse-aid and just add a few drops of DAWN.
Thanks for the info. I believe that surfactants are detergents but I am not positive about that. I think if I used Dawn I would be more concerned about rinsing after washing.
@@josephdavila6798 Surfactants are compounds that lower the surface tension, so in this example, your solution (mostly water) will not bubble up on the vinyl but drop into the grooves more easily. I use Kodak Photo Flow but there are others. Surfactants can be and are often combined with detergents to make detergents more effective. Keep on Spinning! tks
My question is, when dirt is to heavy, could non alcoholic white spirit fix it?
My understanding is that alcohol will dissolve the shellac. I have not actually tried it though.
Please don't use Ultrasonic cleaner on any shellac record. It absolutely does cause micro pitting, lamination separation and exasperate cracks.
I have seen no micro pitting. However I have cracked a few records. I believe that the cracking was caused be water that was too warm. If you have other experiences it would be useful for you to share them with this group.
Hi @@josephdavila6798. I know you are aware of this but "shellac" (in quotes) is a blend of organic and inorganic materials of unknown quantity, e.g.: lac, ground slate, carbon, fiber and who knows what other fillers and extenders - a seemingly endless variety of materials used by different manufacturers spread over geography, time and economic circumstance. Under ideal conditions the behavior of such materials would be difficult to predict. Add to that roughly 100 years of age having been subject to many thousands of temperature and humidity variations makes such material behavior impossible to predict. Limited empirical observations aside perhaps one would err on the side of caution. If needed a quick, light rinse & scrub and gentle vacuuming with distilled water - less is more.
Could you reference where your information came from so I can read it It would be great if you had before and after pictures/micrographs. I have over a thousand 78 rpm records that I "inherited" and need cleaning. I don't want to damage them in any way.
@@waynesharaf6369 Hi Wayne. Gosh over the last 20 years that I have been into 78RPM records I've read from many sources I'm sorry I don't have a specific link or reference at the moment. Skipping cylinders and Edison Diamond disks, shellac records were manufactured over a period of about 60 years through two world wars and in multiple continents by hundreds of different small and large companies. No one really can know all of the proprietary formulations used. So the safest thing is really a wipe down with a microfiber cloth dampened with distilled water. If you have a specific type of labels, manufacture date-range or type of dirt/mold you need to remove others and myself can happily advise. I have about 30,000 shellac records in my private collection but still this is a narrow focus on Classical music between roughly 1920 - 1945 and music from India between about 1908-1945. There will be different formulations in the shellac for popular and Jazz record labels for example. What type of labels and material are you looking at and is it just dust and old sleeves that need cleaning, updating?
@@LordOfTheThreeWorlds Hi Steve, thanks for getting back to me. I had to excavate to check the records. The label in one of the boxes was His Royal Majesty. I will look further .
WD-40
I only own about a dozen or so 78s, so all three of these methods are too much money and gear for me. I guess I'll stick to washing them in the kitchen sink by hand.
I think washing records in the kitchen sink is fine, especially for a dozen records.
I have my dog lick each record until it is clean. Fido really likes the old Victor's because of Nipper on the label. I have my cat lick 45's.
In none of your 3 methods did you rinse after cleaning.
You are correct, I typically do not rinse. I just dry the record using a cloth or the vacuum from the VPI. I use very little detergent and use only “dishwasher rinse” as a cleaner and do not rinse with clear water. However I don’t think it could hurt.
4:36 Alcohol will destroy shellacs, are you sure, that the fluid is alcohol free?
I use only water and the dishwasher drying liquid. I do not use any alcohol.
@@josephdavila6798 I looked at a few dishwasher rinse agents at my local store and they all contain alcohol. What brand do you use? Is it a special formula version of the company's standard rinse agent (i.e., is it a special "green" non-alcoholic formula)?
VPI no, drawback is that you put the cleaned side down where the dirty side has been! Tap water HaHa you are joking?
I understand your concern with the VPI regarding cleaning one side then flipping the record over. I can only say that I use the VPI primarily after ultrasonic cleaning so the down side is not very dirty though it is wet. I have not seen any difference in the two sides.
I use tap water for cleaning because the large volume of records that I clean. Using distilled water is not practical. The downside of using tap water is the possibility of depositing minerals in the tracks. Since I vacuum the water away with the VPI deposition is minimized. I have used both and have not seen a noticeable difference.