Don’t Fall For The Braid To Fluorocarbon Hype
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- čas přidán 2. 02. 2023
- Randy lays out his opposition to braid the flurocarbon…#bassmaster #fishing #bassfishing #bass #fishingdaily #angler #angler #catchandrelease #fishinglife #fishingtrip #fish
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I save a fortune in line using braid to fluorocarbon. My line isn't free
same here brother some of those guys are out of touch with the rest of the fishing community when it comes to not having free shit given to them
U said it
Same! It allows you to buy premium fluorocarbon without completely breaking the bank.
No doubt!
That’s exactly why I do, the cash I save allows me to buy line like Shooter or Seaguar
Worth it to avoid all the line twist and coils. Still getting bites.
The reason to use it is the sensitivity of braid but with a low visibility advantage of fluoro. The FG knot is easy to tie and I personally don’t think the fish are concerned about a piece of line 20’ away. The biggest issue is straight fluorocarbon is a nightmare on a spinning reel. I’ve tried it and it sucks horribly.
I could not agree more. I have tried straight flouro on everything and it always ends the same way. A massive blow-up of line, line twist, loops and F-bombs. Some of my all time best cuss fits have occurred using a spinning reel sans braid. And, I AM CAREFUL. I manually close my bail every time and follow that by pulling the slack out. I try to feather the line going out on every cast with my index finger. Flouro/mono is still gonna twist. I have really tried fishing a jerkbait w/a spinning reel. Always ends the same. A blow up and massive F-bombs. Best of luck with the straight flouro. I'll stick to my yeller braid.
I have issues with it on my baitcasters. I tried to run straight fluoro on my cranking rod. It’s a Denali attack series and I could feel anything. I literally hooked a fish first day with it and didn’t even know till I got it almost to the boat. Not to mention all the casting issues I had. I still run a 20-25’ leader on that setup but with the braid it’s a night and day difference
@@billpatterson6249 tie your floro to something after you spool it. walk back while letting line out a little further than you can cast. Now, stretch the floro line for a minute or two. It really helps with the memory and it's a game changer......for me at least! Tight Lines
My thoughts exactly. Straight Fluorocarbon is a bird nest waiting to happen. I use moss green braid with a 15 foot fluorocarbon leader, which works great on both spinning and casting rigs for jigs, senkos, drop shotting, any slow feel the bite type presentations. The only other line I use is straight monofilament for cast and retrieve type baits like spinnerbaits, crankbaits, top waters, jerk baits, etc..... Mono is much more forgiving than fluorocarbon when casting. It does have more stretch, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
@@throwluckfishing5785 I use this method for mono and it works great!
Braid to fluoro = No line twist (eliminates bird's nests), longer casts ( more bites), saves money (more $ to spend on fishing), more sensitive (catch more fish by using a "crank set"). Learn how to tie an Alberto knot, use a long leader to avoid braid knot abrasion and you will actually catch more fish than using straight fluoro. I know this through experience. I also know controversy gets more CZcams hits. Mission accomplished Randy. 🙂
Get good with floro and you never have issues. Complaining about floro is like complaining about backlashing. Braid / leaders is a waste of time. I stay in the water all day. Problem in line, cut it out and move on. My buddy is sitting there reting leaders in the rain 😂
if you tie the FG knot correctly it will absolutely not break. After youve tied it over and over it is not hard to tie either, Youre weaving the line. when you watch someone else tie it it looks hard, but really isnt. I honestly cannot remember ever breaking an FG knot and if i did it was when i first started tying it and was tied incorrectly. I feel braid to leader has many benefits over straight fluoro. Its much easier to manage on the spool, you can use different sized lines just by retying the leader, its much cheaper, hooksets on long casts seem better etc. Its all personal preference though. But to say someone is going to break an FG knot that is tied correctly ,I dont think so. The lines going to break before the knot slips. Alot of guys use it because of the many benefits.
Also I’ve never have a double uni knot fail so his partner must have just sukt 😭
FG is a standard with me from braid to mono leader.… in the surf,...I have a 20’/25’ top shot/ shock leader on all of my multiplier reels for the surf, ... Baitcasting for bass is enough over hand and wrapped around the spool 2/3 times, ... The FG knot works so smoothly through the guides… it's as slick as slug snot, ....this knot has never failed me.… I’ve only cracked off when I try to whip the shit out of my 12’ heaver but the FG knot and braid is never the weak point… FG is slick as slug snot.… thing about fluoro, ... whatever works for you, ... I don't miss out on many fish..!
👌😎🤙
I agree, but it is a major pain in the ass to tie on the water.
@@Fords_N_Fishinthis. It’s literally impossible an FG will break before your knot at the lure will.
I just like it because I can change line weight without re spooling my reel. I only have 2 spinning rods so it just gives me alot of versatility. I don't have the money to be changing out my line all the time. That braid lasts me all year. So for me it's convenience and cost savings. I use the Alberto which is pretty easy for me. Also, i like the lack if line twist. But, I couldn't care less what anyone else does. Whatever works for someone works.
While I don’t recommend it I had a friend use the same braid for 3 years before changing it
Braid pros for me
1) Can respool lees often
2) No memory issues
3) Limited space on the kayak and can make less rods work for more things by changing leader size
4) More sensitive
Cons
1) Breaking off and having to put on new leader
2) Apparently scaring fish and less bites
3) doesn’t come through guides as easy
I don’t think you’re scaring fish, especially with moss green. Also, I haven’t broken off a leader since learning the FG knot. It’s a game changer. And you barely notice it coming through the guides
Every time I try straight fluorocarbon I get nothing but a mess. Knots, line twist, and birds nest. I’ve tried a few different brands and same frustration. I personally know guys that use braid to fluorocarbon and catch thousands of smallmouth each season. I usually agree with your opinions, but not so much on this one.
It’s because this opinion is complete nonsense
Are you saying braid doesn't tangle ?
Yes, floro is a skill issue for most people. Complaining about how floro handles is like complaining about backlashing. Get good and it almost never happens. Youre a floro noob, what do you expect?
I think braid to fluoro is good in clear water on pressured bass but not necessary. My favorite knot for it is the Crazy Alberto knot. Much faster than the FG and its 90% as clean.
What no one has mentioned is the increased hookset penetration with braid to flouro vs straight flouro. Definitely makes a difference. I enjoy the increased sensitivity in finesse situations. The longer casts are an asset in heavily pressured waters. The idea that my line is spooking fish and keeping them from biting may carry some merit, but we run trolling motors and sound producing electronics. So the farther I can cast, with better hookset percentage, and most importantly I have confidence in it.
If you’re running a decent flouro leader, you’re not spooking fish. This dude is just old and doesn’t like change.
easy to break braid to flouro the braid is a lot stronger so it can cause the flouro to break hell I break braid all the time
@@Mbtharp1 Old? The guy is only 50 yo. I'm 52 and have fished mono of every type most of my life. I've also used fluorocarbon extensively. Apart from a tiny few drawbacks, nothing competes with a braid and fluorocarbon leader in the hands of an experienced angler. Amongst the extensive experience that I have, is also the experience of practically all long-time anglers throwing their poorly reasoned confirmation biases into their genuine hard won knowledge. They assume their guesses of multiple variables that they don't have solid evidence for are correct by sheer dint of their experience, and not just a subjective shot in the dark. This guy is a classic case of that. He favours straight flouro, good for him, but it's a biased opinion based on limited subjective experience. I specialise in fishing for bass (sea bass) here in Ireland and a number of traditional long held beliefs about what "spooks them" in regards to end-tackle used has turned out to be mostly bullshit, from hard evidence. Certain species of fish have broad habits, but the number of variables that govern exactly what they do are constantly in flux. Experience counts for a lot, but astute awareness of provable facts counts for more.
Fluoro doesn’t stretch, so it should hook the same
@Satansoft Yes it does.
Just use straight braid and call it good.
Fewer bites? I dunno. Consider that we know bass will hit an unpainted rectangular block of wood with some hooks hanging off of it, and that they routinely hit all sorts of gadgets with spinners, propellers, metal flaps and clangers, etc. that don't look a darn thing like anything that does or - even could - exist in nature. And yet despite that, somehow a few inches of line is the thing that's going to scare them off? Having a hard time buying it.
Then again, I very rarely fish in crystal clear water. Most of my bass fishing has always been in heavily tannin stained "blackwater" creeks and rivers, or farm ponds. If I were fishing in places with water with 20 ft of visibility instead of 4 inches, maybe I would have a different position on this, based on experience. But plain braid has always worked fine for me.
Some good points
I agree with you on that it always worked for me when I had 20 ft or more of a leader.
And with a good tide FG knot it does not come undone and when I get caught on something I pull and I break off mi or I still have my FG knot tied to my leader.
Yep.....Marling Baits proved that a bass will hit a stick or a block of wood with treble hooks on it.
With the diameter of say 10 lb test braid having the same diameter of 4 lb test mono there's really no reason you can't use straight braid. The bass are only focused on the lure. Last year I did try braid/floro and lost more bass on setting the hook than I did when using straight braid. Unless you are fishing highly pressured or crystal clear water there's no reason you can't fish straight braid.
On a side note I did see a video where somebody put some hooks on a GoPro camera and caught a bass. If they are hungry they will bite anything.
Double uni knots work great for me. I mainly fish rivers so cranks jerks and jigs get where they need to be.
Yep double uni knot is the best unless your going from smaller diameter braid to big FC like 80lb then a Albright or one of its variations. Or FG if you want to waste time LOL 😂😂😂
Same. Been using double Uni for braid to fluro for smallies and stripers with no issues.
@@BassManStrikes I can tie an FG in about a minute. I tie enough leader I can retie several times before I have to tie another leader. If I have to retie in windy / bad conditions I'll use a uni to uni. FG doesn't really waste time, its a better knot but sometimes its just too tough with rocking boats, wind, and my old man eyes...
I pull in fish on 10lb braid with 20lb leader that would swallow a bass whole.
I started using braid to flouro (or mono) about 6 years ago, when I first tried ned rigging. I fish natural lakes in MN which aren't clear except early spring. What surprised me and ended up hooking me to this line/leader combo was how often I would "see" the bite long before I could feel it. Those bass so often would pick up the jig and swim sideways or towards the boat... and I felt absolutely nothing. But I could see the bright yellow or green line start moving and was able to react accordingly. I tried fishing a ned this last summer on a spinning rig with 8lb straight flouro, and it was a horrible experience, like I was fishing blind! I get my rods rigged up prior to fishing usually with an FG knot, but if I break off or my knot fails while fishing, I can easily tie a crazy alberto to a new leader, even in the wind. And with the low visibility of some of the lakes I fish (2-5 ft), I'll often use a mono leader, which seems to hold knots better for me. Had up to 65 bass caught by myself in less than 5 hours with such a setup. So for me the key is enhanced bite detection, the lowered cost of braid is gravy.
How do you explain saltwater anglers using braid to flourocarbon or mono to catch fish that would make a nice snack out oh a 10# bass.
I wouldn't recommend a beginner to do it or someone who doesn't like to retie but. If u know ur lines and ur rods and how they correlate to one another and what type of line would work best with that rod but. I personally haven't had any issues with braid to leader and don't think it has cost me any bites at all cause. I'm catching fish that other people aren't in my area or literally fishing right near someone and I'm smacking em and there not. An I've used in crystal clear water where trout are stocked and smacked the hell em there to and my best day on swimbaits was at that lake with braid to leader.
Well hey if Randy is so correct then can you tell me how an earth do I use straight fluorocarbon or straight monofilament on my baitcaster without getting phrase or bird nests in my real when I cast and when I literally try to prevent bird nests!!!?????
@@silentnight2292 you might wanna check ur guides it could possibly be one of ur guides is cracked and fraying ur line take a wet Q-tip and press it in the guides on the outer walls pretty firmly and if u see the q-tip starting to fray its that guide. Also a sharp exacto blade if u run it 90 degree angle around the guide it will feel catch the crack. It doesn't scratch the guides if u just put very light pressure and thats all u need for it to catch.
@@silentnight2292 Setting your reel brakes correctly will help tremendously. Tighten your spool brake all the way...hold the rod at the 2 o'clock position and press the thumb bar. When set correctly when the lure hits the ground there should be very little overrun at the spool. As for the centrifugal brake on the left side of the reel...when I started using a baitcaster I had mine turned all the way up and over time I've gotten to where I can back it off about half way. I'm sure there are others with better advice. Good luck and tight lines.
No hate here. Just my reasons why I do….8 out of 10 of my rods are braid to floro including all my spinning rods. Here is my list of why I use this set up. #1 I don’t want to change out my floro line 2 to 3 times a year. To expensive. #2 If you tie your B2L knot correctly you don’t need to re-tie it during a day of fishing. Re-tie at home the night before #3 Very Very rarely have a broken out at my B2L knot. When I snag and pull to break off, it’s always at my knot to my lure. #4 I don’t use high-vis braid for some reasons Randy said. #5 I don’t have $400 Megabass rods so having braid makes my set up more sensitive #6 You won’t lose more fish because of the lack of stretch because if you have your drag set right and you are using the right rod you’re good. #7 FG knot is great ONLY if you tie it 100% perfect. I use the Alberto knot and it never fails. #8 You can go from swimming a small swimbait to a bottom contact ned rig on the same line set up. 15lbs braid to 8lb floro cover 90% of what I through. And you CAN throw a jerkbait with this.
Next time you bring out client for a jerkbait lesson you should fish the whole day with B2F while you client fishes with floro and see you lands more for science.
For the conditions I fish-crystal clear Ozarks creeks for smallmouth-10 lbs braid to a 6-8 lbs flouro leader, 12 feet long, is the only way to go. It doesn’t matter if it’s a spinning rod or bait caster.
Edit: I should add, I fix the issue of not having give in the line by only using medium or medium-light rods.
Most guys on this channel are still using mono from Walmart
Fluorocarbon is better if you fish all the time but if you only go fishing once a month the memory in fluoro is gonna curl your line and cause you to backlash more which sucks
Exactly correct.
University of Washington did a study comparing fishing line types and they found that fish (mainly bass) rely on their lateral line sensing over their sight and that the thicker line you have the easier it is for bass to since it and not eat your lure. So their conclusion was that straight braid was the best for almost all waters due to the line diameter being so thin. The bass couldn’t since it as much. Additionally, bass do not see light refraction the same way humans do. Just because it’s hard for us to see floro under water doesn’t mean bass do. Their eyes are made to see and since objects under water, our eyes are not.. So if I am fishing open water with little brush and rocks I use just straight braid and a medium weight and moderate rod. This goes for cranks, spinners baits, jerks baits, and plastics. I get more bites than my braid to floro buddies and just straight floro. But it’s absolutely imperative that you do not use a fast or extra fast rod. You will rip that lure right out of the basses mouth. It has to be moderate. If I am fishing rivers with lots of rocks and other objects then I will use mono and a fast or extra fast rod. This is due to mono being much more abrasion resistant vs floro and braid. The only issue is, you have to buy really good mono. If you don’t you will have bird nests all day.
Randy, as always, thank you for the time and energy you spend to bring us this fishing information. As a 95% fly fisherman/5-10% spin casting/bait fishing my life has revolved around tying leaders to fly line with an overwhelming number of variations depending on target species, types of water, water conditions, etc. Quite frankly it is exhausting. And you are right, dealing with knot tying over 50 is a PIA. I have played the flouro vs braid game on spinning/baitcasting rods. I can appreciate the numerous comments below about the frustration with straight fluoro and it's memory causing frequent line messes and hours of frustration for many anglers. COULD YOU PLEASE DO A FOLLOW-UP VIDEO ON TIPS AND TRICKS TO AVOID LINE TANGLING, TWISTS AND MESSES WITH STRAIGHT FLUORO. It would be much appreciated. Thank you.
Randy gets his line for free. He probably respools every weekend. He doesn’t have these problems because he is completely out of touch.
Bass feel the presence of your line regardless of the size or visibility. It's really amazing they bite at all. For what it's worth I just use 8 lb mono on spinning reels and never lose fish. I feel the bites fine too. I think you just gotta do what works best for you with your budget and fish and water. FWIW I don't like using leader knots either.
My buddy and I caught 30 and 50 on consecutive days this weekend on pressured lake....all my fish were caught on braid to flouro....no problems ....I did break off a few times...the FG never failed it either broke at the lure or the line broke...why not just say this is what works for me...as for yellow line and clear water...i grew up out west a trout fisherman both spinning and fly fishing..flyline is yellow the leader is 9 to 12 feet and the water is gin clear and shallow....and caught a ton of fish 🤔
Agreed. I have been using braid to go fluoro for more than a decade. Have never lost a fish at the FG knot. Neither have I lost a rig because of a failed FG knot when snagged badly, every failure was at the hook knot or swivel. FG knots are stronger than any other knot of a fluoro and hardly ever fail if tied properly.
Braid to fluorocarbon HANDLES SO MUCH BETTER. I never have to worry about line twist. That itself makes the choice for me.
I’ve fished braid to floro for nearly a decade at this point. Tried fishing straight floro again last year and it’s too much of a pain and expensive. I use the blood knot on all my leaders for spinning and baitcasters; never had the knot fail me. Highly recommend trying that knot. TacticalBassin uses the blood knot as well, that’s why I started using it lol
I use the Alberto it’s a lot easier to tie and I haven’t had too many line breaks unless I’m not paying attention
I even do this with fly line I’ll slap either straight fluoro or a top mono with fluoro dropping in size
I can tell the difference with how the fish react in higher pressure areas they don’t bite as much when they see the line
I like it because I do not have to re-spool as often and loose the spinning reel line twist issues. I used to fish local tournaments with an older fisherman we fished against. Normally we were fishing for second when he showed up. He kicked our butts all the time fishing straight 50+ pound braid on everything. We asked him want that scare the fish? He said how else is the fish going to find your bait.
Straight Fluorocarbon on spinning reels suck in my experience as well. Line was always getting twists and knots in it... even tried a barrel swivel with a 18 Inch or so leader to my texas rigged whatever or flukes. It was just a nightmare... switched to straight braid only, and only use moss green. But say I want to use the drop shot... what are your recommendations for doing that? Thanks in advance Randy. 🤙
But you're not worried about the bass seeing thick wires of an Alabama rig?? Or a jerkbait Alabama rig? LMAO.
I'll stick with my braid to flourocarbon. Less line twists, better sensitivity, lasts longer than just flouro alone. If I usually break a fish off its at the knot on the end of the line and not at the braid/flouro connection and yes that's because I'm too lazy re-tie. I used to fish flouro only and I can honestly say my bites and land ratios went up when I switched to braid/flouro. That's just me experience. I think everyone should try both ways and compare for themselves. Use what works.
It’s definitely much more sensitive than straight fluoro. I used to use straight fluoro, now I use braid with an FG to a fluoro leader. I initially did it to save money, but couldn’t see myself going back now because of the sensitivity and ease of hooksets especially on longer casts.
I don’t disagree with any of your arguments but I will continue to use braid to fluorocarbon for environmental reasons. Fluorocarbon is an ecological nightmare (both in its manufacturing and slow rate of deterioration). Replacing 15’ of leader is better than replacing 80 yards of that nasty stuff. Also, I find I get much longer use from braid, allowing me to use less of it. Leaving less of a negative impact on our environment is an advantage. Will it cost me bites? Maybe, but I can live with that.
I somewhat agree although the other advantage you didn't mention is the hookset on a long cast. I've found that on topwater straight braid floats better and is in essence an advantage because your lure will have the proper action with the line floating. Use Fluorocarbon on something like a frog or a stick bait or popper and it sinks killing the action. I think there's a time and a place for braid to fluorocarbon. I use it throwing large swimbaits and I usually put about a 25 foot leader of 20 pound Fluorocarbon with 65 pound test braid main line. I think its an advantage *sometimes. Theres always a time and a place for any strategy or tactic and to completely write it off is kinda narrow minded. With the bigger heavier hooks on a swimbait, the sensitivity and low stretch allows much better feel for when to set the hook and gives the leverage needed on a super long cast to hook the fish and keep it pinned with heavy pressure with such a large bait. I've hooked and lost fewer bass (and ones that count) fishing large swimbaits on braid to fluorocarbon than I ever did with straight fluorocarbon or mono. I never use braid to fluorocarbon on a spinning reel. No need. It's usually fluorocarbon or copolymer, the latter being my favorite due to its higher knot strength and having a bit of stretch. In other words, depending on what or how I'm fishing dictates what type of line and what gear I'm using, just like rod and reel setup. To completely write it off limits you as an angler. I guess it's all personal preference and to each their own.
What is your favorite flourocarbon for filling a spinning reel? For less wind knots ? In 6 lb line?
Recently switched my baitcasters from braid to fluoro, to just straight fluoro to try it out. I was definitely in the category of new to fishing when I set up braid to fluoro and was told it was the way to go. Made the change to form my own opinion on it. Excited to experiment and get a idea of what I like better. What you said in this video makes a lot of sense to me though.
I did the same and I'm ready to switch back. The line memory and backlashes are the main reason for switching back.
More backlashes with straight floro? Was thinking about making th switch from jbraid but now I’m reconsidering. My lead is just too long
I believe the fish feel the line in the water regardless of type, unless it is not moving at all. I use braid because I don't like respooling due to memory. I don't fish all the time and braid just makes more sense to me, but I think fish just don't care overall.
Randy my main concern considering the 2 different line options is that the coils that come off a fluorocarbon. the line twist and coils are difficult to deal with and often mess up a cast whereas with braid you get a clean cast without any spring like coils. With the thinner braid you can use the double unit knot to make the line to leader connection and that's a fairly easy not to tie.
What are your thoughts about the line coiling characteristics of flurocarbon?
I agree with you about fish being able to seeing braided line, esp the bright stuff! I've experimented quite a bit with that. BUT, I use an 8-12 foot leader of green power pro with a mono or flouro leader, tied with just back to back uni knots. I jerbbait fish largemouth with this in the midwest and have caught dozens and dozens of bass over 5 pounds with this combo and really never have breakoffs at the knot. I have also caught dozens of smallmouth between 4 and 7 lb's in the great lakes fishing the same setup, with jerks and with stuff like ned rigs. They don't spook from the green Power Pro that is 10 feet away. The advantages with this are way longer casts, much better hooksets at the end of long casts, increased sensitivity on longer casts and very little issues with coils on the spool. Plus, you could literally not change your line for years and be okay with that stuff (just change the leader). Spooling all up with flouro isn't as good of an option in my opinion. The use of baitcasting gear brings up different things but for spinnng the above is what I believe works best! (I go either all braid or all flouro in most instances with baitcasting gear)...
Before there was braid I learned to suicide finesse fish from a guy that won the Bassmaster Classic a few decades ago, his name? Guido Hibdon. He fished a light spinning rig with 8 pound mono or copolymer line in places most folks would have been using a heavy flipping set up with 50 pound braid these days. His theory behind it? You’ve got to get bit then worry about getting them to the boat, just like Randy said. He made this what seemed impossible combination work by simply applying light pressure on the fish and waiting on it swim out of the cover. Their natural instinct is to go to deeper water to get away. I’ve done this for decades and can count on one hand the number of fish I’ve broken off. None of the larger fish I’ve caught ever broke off. That being said, line selection does plays an important part. I used Bass Pro Shops Excel in 8 pound clear. Why? I was given a sample spool in 8 pound and I put it on my finesse spinning rig to fish a tournament on Fork. I flipped a 4 inch Texas rigged finesse worm into a bed of hydrilla and hooked a 3 to 4 pound largemouth and it balled up in that stuff and I couldn’t get it to come out. I finally decided to break it off and move on. I wrapped the line around my hand and started pulling and I pulled the fish and a ball of hydrilla bigger than the fish out and almost straightened the hook. I got the fish. It’s all about line selection.
Randy I can't say your advice is any more or less helpful than any other influencers on CZcams,but you are the best of all at starting debates and at times rubbing your viewers the wrong way with your opinions.I have actually grown to like your new channel much better as it is (thus far at least) all fishing tips without the opion pieces.
Here's a detail you fail to mention to 99.9% of your base audience is the cost of a decent flouro. It's not a con to you because I'm sure BaitWRX is giving you a healthy discount. COST. A spool of braid will last me 2 seasons fishing 2 to 3 times a week. Flouro may last 2 or 3 months and at 40 bucks a re-spool for a good flouro....I'll stick to braid/leader. I will agree for moving baits it's a little stiff but for bottom baits it saves me a significant amount of money. We aren't all Pros Randy.
Why not the best of both worlds . I fill my spool halfway with 10lb braid & then anothe 50-80 yards of 8lb fc & I get the same advantages saving a lot of money
This is the way. I guess this would be braid backing instead of what Randy is talking about but I’m 100% with you. Even made a video saying the exact same thing!
I agree with what you are saying, But after 50+ years of fishing, I tried the braid with mono leader and it does not twist and wad up on my reels. In the last few years, it seems I've been having to change the mono or flurocarbon on my spinning reels every couple trips and baitcasters, not far behind. What's changed with the mono to create all the line memory.
I know getting the fish to bite is important. Thats is why I like to use a flurocarbon leader with braid. If all you fish for is bass in muddy or stained water it doesn't really matter. But some people get into a lot of clear water with pressured fish. Ever see what braid looks like on an underwater camera? It looks like rope.
Randy I tried man. I really did. But I can't get rid of the line twist. And I spool it the right way, and stretch my line and use line conditioner.
I think his ulterior motive is to increase sales of fluoro line..... If people through their fluoro birdsnests in the water, Randy might rethink things.
Did you see any benefits? I made a braid to flouro video a couple weeks ago and I can’t really see the benefits of using straight flouro.
@FullTimeFishing he's right about the benefits. Not having a leader knot, mainly. But I've never had a leader knot break, and it outweighs the amount of line twist and "loops" that are such a pain in the neck. Line management is the reason I use braid to flouro
Honest question would there still be any benefits in an ultralight setup? I recently got into ultralight fishing and every video out there suggests braid to flouracarbon.
Randy I love your show, I'm an old dog probably older than you I'm on a fixed income the one thing I love about braid to monofilament or florocarbon is the fact that i save a ton of money respooling.
I don't deal with line twist anymore.
The one thing I do, is I'm running a 20 or 30 ft long leader it's almost as though I'm running no leader at all sometimes.
I still get that "slackline" sensitivity, where the line will jump it almost never jumps with braid to lure connection.
iFish controlled slack, that doesn't work with braids you don't feel anything with controlled slack. Tightline techniques you can't beat braids, trolling a lake to find Bass, you can't beat braid.
I was thinking about trying it for strike detection when fishing a Shakey head or something along that line. And the extra sensitivety I feel would also help. I've been a fisher man for a while but that was trout I recently started targeting bass. So much trickier
I use moss green braided line. But I use flourocarbon as well but not together. They both have they're own purposes. Thanks for the info Randy.
That's true for freshwater fishing you don't necessarily need that set up but for saltwater fishermen I suggest you apply that technique braid to mono or fluoro,it makes a huge difference.
Interesting ideas. I use both straight flourocarbon and flourocarbon to braid. Depends on the situation. You can achieve more casting distance on flourocarbon by using higher quality lines.
Well… the wonders of the internet 😂😂 Spinning and straight fluoro… good luck with that 👌
I like the fewer back-lashing with braid, that is the main benefit imo.
An advantage to using braid to a slightly lower breaking strength fluorocarbon (or mono) gives the line a place to break when you want to break it. That way you're not leaving some ridiculous length of line attached to a snagged lure junking up the lake bottom.
So what LB test fluorocarbon line do us e to fish with?
Fishermen from Malaysia. This is my opinion and experience. I use yellow braided line with FC leader on FG knot, for both my Casting and Spinning setup for throwing lures targeting Snakehead and Peacock Bass. Never a problem. The FG knot never fails if tied properly, it is always the mainline breaking first or the FC leader gets bitten or abrasion from gill plates and rocks. I used to fill spools with dark green or black lines so fish wouldn't see line but it really didn't make much or any noticeable difference. I prefer to use bright color lines like Yellow, Red or Blue so it would be easy to track where my line is both when casting lures and when fighting fish in grassy waters, especially during low light conditions. The reason I prefer FC leader is that it cast further (smoother) than Mono and is relatively invisible underwater. FG knot takes practice and patience. Before mastering FG, I was using Albright to connect braid to mono but the bulky knot affects my casting distance and accuracy as the knot bumps the guide rings during the cast. Again, these are my experience. Peace.
Very helpful. Appreciate your input. I do only salt marsh fishing (specs, reds, flounder) fishing with a spinning reel and would truly like to go to straight fluorocarbon for the very reasons you're highlighted. One question, how do you feel about adding a fluorocarbon leader to a 20 lb fluorocarbon main line?
So my big problem is that if your not fishing professionally and getting line for free than it makes no sense to go straight floro. If I was fishing everyday which I don’t and trying to cash a check week in and week out which I don’t than yea I would into that but Floro if it sits to long it gets really bad memory and braid does not. So my reason for not going straight floro is the fact that weekend fisherman use it because it’s cost effective for us regular joes to use braid to Floro.
Braid to floro is great because it makes your setup more versatile and saves you money on floro. If you need stronger line you can cut the leader off and go straight to your 50+ lb braid for example. It also gives the the ability to fine tune your setup on the fly based on the fish and line weight you need at the time by changing out your leader line. Also braid last significantly longer on a spool
I’m
Surprised no one is talking about how terrible braid is for pitching heavy cover and how braid will wrap itself around any small twigs/branches and get you all hung up, love using a 20lb fluro leader on 50 lb braid eliminates that entire problem. If I’m pitching heavy grass mats I’ll use straight braid
Wait, fluorocarbon is too visible, so you recommend all fluorocarbon?
Used to go braid to floro all the time, got pretty good with the fg knot. Closest I get lately is old braid as backing and about 100 yards of floro. Floro is expensive.
Tested knots for braid to fluorocarbon showed that the GT knot is best. A figure 8 flourocarbon start, braid threaded through the two loops and then wound five or six times around the fluorocarbon and finished off.
I started using braid to fluorocarbon because it helps my wife and son see and manage the line better. Then I realized it helped me a little bit except for jerkbait fishing.
Randy , I have been using leader on braid for 50 years , just the way I was taught to baitcast. Fishing mostly in New Hampshire a leader with braid is a must.
However I can admit to only putting braid on the spinning rods for the last 12 years and it has made a huge difference in castability and made it almost frustration free.
I think you come at this from a different angle than the average fisherman.I get to fish 2-3 times per week during soft water season. Most of us are not respooling with free line every trip so those spinning reels with Fluoro are twisting up and getting memory looping , Braid eliminates that and yes the leader needs to be retied after it has been cut back a few times but not so bad when using a Alberto knot . Alberto knot is much easier to tie in the boat than an FG. As we all know Braid is by far more durable and I usually don't need to respool but one every year or two. Braid saves lures, and cuts weeds. I loose fewer lures with Braid .
I agree that fluorescent or bright colors of braid may be a negative but other colors are available , Green, Black and camo . I will even break up the solid color Braid with a Sharpie for flipping if I don't have camo .
Bass can hunt at night, and it's not through site they are successful, it's through smell and vibration detection. If you don't like tying something as simple as an SC knot, then use a double barrel swivel.
I also rety frequently, because logs, rocks and fish will nick the soft fluorocarbon. I cut off the damaged line, 2-3 inches, and retie. My 10 foot leader is now 3 inches shorter. When it gets too short, I spend the 30 seconds it takes to tie an SC knot and I have a new 10 foot leader.
I spent the first 25 years of my life fishing mono and fluoro. I know them very well. I know they develop memory on a spool after a few days of disuse. I also know they degrade in sunlight. I also know the stretch on a hot day can be like fishing with rubber bands. The happiest day of my fishing life was when I first used braid.
I'm never going to win a national open tournament, and you aren't ever going to convince me braid is bad.
each line type has a specific function/use for me, braid i use for topwater and flipping in heavy cover, flouro for clear water with crankbaits, jerkbaits, swimbaits, mono for live bait/catfishing,
90% agree with 100% of what you’ve said 😂 I love straight braided line with no leader at all for jerk baits, poppers, and most hard baits. You’re going for a fast instinctive reaction bite as opposed to a slow retrieve natural presentation bite. The fish’s own action of biting then a gentle pull of the rod often sets the hook without some overt theatrical hook set. Not to mention less work on the rod and your arm after an entire weekend of fishing. In the end there is no argument. Always use what you’re comfortable with as an angler and whatever gets those bites for ya.
Absolutely right, I'm an sea surfcasting/ spining fisherman since young, one of the first rules I learned with the older fisherman at the time, NEVER underestimate the fish, soon our baits, weights, hooks, lures and lines hit the water, they will be in contact in the FISH environment, keep it simple, including the baits presentation as simple as possible.
Another rule, if you fish at the sea on the verge of a rock casting near or far in calm and clear water, your presence will spook the fish, specially the biggest fish, only the bait fish will not go to far from you, anyway, cast from a reasonable distance or behind a rock for example. Line colours and braids are important too, if you can fish with line colours matching the waters colour or transparent lines in conttact with water. Keep all the fishing gear as simple as possible.
How do you feel about straight braid for top water? Also something that has baffled me is how a bass will hit an a rig with all the metal and blades. Also treble hooks on jerkbaits. I agree with you and have been making more of a change back to fluoro for many reason you have mentioned. But in my case being a guy that gets out to pleasure fish 4-6 times a month I do find benefit to braid in many ways. Thanks for all the content Randy. You’ve been fishing long enough to make me all ears.
Braid is perfectly fine for top water and crank baits, I only use florocarbon leaders when going after fish like pike and walleye
P-Line Floroclear is pretty good stuff ! Fluorocarbon coated co-polymer . Casts like mono , and invisible . I use it for mainline and leader line in different situations! Can retie with a palomar knot too without knot cutting it self ! I don’t like tying a knot with 3 standing ends ! I fish primarily in Florida and Floro knots catch grass to much !
That p-line cast a mile !! Lol
my favorite line.... it's on most of my reels
Respect your opinion, but I'll still continue to fish braid to whatever. Changing 10ft of fc or mono if needed isn't hard. A LOT less expensive then respolling my reels so I have full reels. Don't have $$$ to buy lots of fc to change often. But if you're sponsored so be it. I'll save my money on fc for my forward facing sonar......lmao
I have found no disadvantage using braid to leader on my spinning rods. On my baitcast I primarily used straight fluoro, except for my bait finesse type setups I use braid to fluoro.
While I do agree 100% of what You're saying . . . I have some 'but's'.
100% fluro on a spinner is expensive and a pain to manage.
You need to change the fluro more frequently if you spool up 100%. Think 'Slinky Nightmare'.
I don't fish tournaments, so 'every bite' isn't critical to me. Braid to fluro is convenient.
Most of my lakes / waters have stained or dirty water so stealth concerns aren't a factor.
I do fish straight fluro on jerks & cranks, chatter baits, spinerbaits etc.
But on a light spinning rod application . . . there are some definite benefits of braid to fluro for the non-tournament angler.
I use braid to a leader (along with straight braid) for a few reasons. First of all, braid just stays on the reel…almost as long as I want it to. Lines are getting better each year, colors are fading less and less, 8 and even 16 strand braid are more affordable than ever…it’s gotten to the point where you can absolutely fish an entire season with the same line on your spool, especially if you have multiple setups and don’t spend the entire season just beating a single combo to death. I like having a sacrificial leader that doesn’t eat into my main line more than a couple inches for every swap. I don’t fish for 200 IQ spots or smallmouth in gin clear water (I reserve all of those concerns for my fly fishing trips). My lakes contain a lot of cover and to be honest, almost half my combos are straight 4-8 strand braid come June when the vegetation starts to peak. Does it hinder me? Possibly, but I still end up with double/triple limit days about as often as I did for the prespawn so it’s kind of a wash. If you fish competitively or you fish for lake placid smallies, that’s one thing…but for guys like me who are high level amateurs sticking close to a single geographic region, stuff like braid to leader starts to make more and more sense.
I've been using braid to mono exclusively for the past decade of my fishing career after watching this video I tried this season using just straight mono. And I hated it so much that I am going back to braid to mono next season without any question in my mind about it and here are my reasons why using braid to mono is far superior.
1. Braid has no stretch and monofilament doesn't reach its peak stretching point until 20 ft in length so the level of sensitivity you get from braid to mono is far superior to the point where you can feel everything at the freaking bottom of the lake or river just by retrieving the line so getting a proper hook set is easy because you feel the bite immediately.
2. Hi-vis braid acts as a strike indicator before your rod tip ever even bends and the monofilament acts as a shock absorber for the strike of the fish.
2. Braid can last 2 years or longer depending on how well you take care of it whereas monofilament and fluorocarbon have to be changed out a bare minimum of every season.
3. Braid has no memory so you don't have the line jumping off the spool and spooling on your line isn't as big of a pain in the neck as it is with monofilament or fluorocarbon.
4. Your argument for the connection knot breaking is very subjective considering certain knots when tied correctly can have nearly 100% knot strength like the surgeon's knot or a properly tied double uni knot for example. And even connection knots that aren't 100% are at least around the 80% mark when tied correctly which is still strong enough to hold even the biggest fish. So saying that a connection knot with even 80% knot strength won't hold a fish is like saying the knot holding your hook onto your line won't hold a fish it simply doesn't make sense and it's very subjective.
Definitely don’t have Randy’s experience, but the cost of fluoro, line twist, etc., puts me in the braid to fluoro camp. As a weekend angler, I can get two or three years out of my braid. I don’t trust fluoro on a spool after a year. The only rig I’m still running straight fluoro on is my crank bait rod, but I’m also a cheap, mick bastard fishing out of a paddle powered kayak. I don’t have the space nor the cash for 20 different rigs.
For my part, I just don't like the sound of the knot passing through the guides. I use a double uni knot which is relatively small but still the knot against the guides is very noticeable. Now I just use straight mono or fluorocarbon.
Ive used nothing but Trilene XL for 40 years. I have no problem catching tons of fish.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge sir.
I appreciate your well thought out arguments.
Randy I agree with you on its fish catching advantages, but I think the reason most use it is due to braid having a longer lifespan on a reel. Flouro wears down faster. The only applications it makes sense for are if you need it to float (for top water) or you need increased sensitivity. But I’ve never understood the sensitivity part for Bass Fishing. I fish Lake St. Clair and the Bass in my lake like to murder whatever you throw at them so the sensitivity part is pointless. I use braid for vertical jigging Walleye on the Detroit and St. Clair rivers only because it’s paramount that I can detect bottom.
Yeah most of us don’t have the privilege of getting spools of flouro.
Yeah I don’t understand the sensitivity neater. I can feel a bite on any line lol.
Exactly! The amount of money I save every year is worth it alone but I also believe in the other advantages as well.
Consider yourself lucky that your bass are so aggressive. They’re lazy turds much of the time here will just inhale it and not move. It can be tough to tell sometimes when they hit, especially if it’s windy and choppy.
Braid developes line twists just as much as Fluoro and Mono, and for the same reasons. You don't see it in spirals, like Mono, but in "wind knots". Try pulling braid behind boat (nothing tied on) like people do with mono. Less tangles happen. Also, cheap car wax works great to make braid like new. Just stretch out line to dry in backyard. Pour some car wax on a folded paper towel, hold the towel folded over the braid and walk the line with braid sliding through the wax. Let it dry completely, real it up and use. Note: You don't need to do this to the whole line, just the part you've been using that has washed out the factory coating (maybe 50 yards). Tight lines...
I crank with straight fluoro and use it on my jerkbait rod. That’s it. I just don’t want to respool every rod, every season. I can also switch from 12 to 20lb leader depending on the situation. FG knot isn’t hard. There’s a very boat friendly version of it you can watch on CZcams. Also Seth Fieder’s version is slip proof. I’ve fished Mohave and Havasu with it and had no issue getting bit. It makes sense to use straight fluoro in certain situations and it also makes sense to use straight braid. For everything else... there’s braid to fluoro or braid to mono(which I also love doing in certain situations).
Thank you for the advice. I will take this into consideration
I have and issue with my drop shot palomer knot breaking on fluorocarbon leader ! And like Randy I like to re tie allot , but having to tie 3 knots is a pain ! Thought about pre tying drop shot leaders like I do Carolina rig leaders ! I wrap them real neat around a pool noodle . Then I just have to tie 1 knot ! The Alberto knot
I've gone back to straight mono for everything. Just adjust my line strength for different presentation's.
I tried running straight fluoro on my spinning reels when it started getting popular many years ago, and I hated it. So much memory.
I actually throw jerkbaits on braid to leader and have had 100 plus fish days doing it, rarely losing fish. I use technique specific rods and I’ll dial back my drag. I can bomb my casts and feel the strikes really well at the end of a long cast, and just reeling into them, I get a good hookup. One other thing I don’t like about straight fluoro with jerkbaits is the loops it can leave in the line can affect the baits ability to truly stay motionless on the pause.
As for not changing leaders enough, the distal end of the leader is where you usually get damage from contact with cover or fish’s teeth. I check my knot connection throughout the day, but I’m not typically getting abrasion on the proximal end.
Another technique where I like really long casts is when throwing little paddle tails on light jig heads or Okishira heads. With a Flyssa and 10lb braid I can throw those things a mile and still get a good hookup at the end of the cast.
I have tried five or six different braid to flouro knots...and each one has broken at the knot on the first bite...not sure why...I take all the precautions but nothing seems to work...I even tied off to the lawnmower and tried the knot...no breaks ...as soon as i get a bite, it breaks...so I go straight flouro
I’m thinking of switching back to straight fluorocarbon, I’ve had the fg knot fail a bunch of times, but I do like the sensitivity and castability of braid to fluorocarbon
I've had some braid to fluoro failures as well. I'm sure I failed in tying the knot. Since I've down sized my line stregth (15lb braid to 8-12lb fluro leader) the uni to uni is much smaller and I have zero issues with it. Yes, it is not as strong as an FG, but I can tie it in a minute.
I use the crazy alberto knot, and have never had a failure.
@@snookcatcher1I use the FG knot religiously. I have exactly two failures both directly attributed to me.
I use the gt knot it’s a trooper and super easy to tie.
that’s a you problem not a knot problem
I absolutely hate the memory/coil of fluorocarbon any good suggestions on dealing with it
Best thing I have found is to let your line out behind your boat when slowly idling your big motor or your trolling motor and let it straighten out in the water prior to starting a fishing day if possible. Doesn’t prevent it from twisting again throughout the day but it will start it out nice and straight
You're probably using too big of line or too small a reel. Also, try using high quality fluorocarbon like Invis-x or FC Sniper
Agree with Invizx due to its low memory. But even 6 lbs test Invizx will still twist on spinning reels
I've watched Randy's other video on spooling fluorocarbon and recommended reel size not being difficult just not doing something right lol fishing shouldn't be 3 cast 10 minutes of line picking ect then 3 or 4 more cast
Go braided line. Powerpro.
I love the “to sensitive argument”. Anyone ever see the movie Major League? “It’s to high, to high”.
I got some slack for asking the same question. 1 knot can fail but 2 with a braid knot then a hook knot is 2x the chance for breakage. Some of the answers were make sure you tie the knot correctly. I said that's fine but like wiring a aerator if you have multiple splices you have a better chance of failure. Know one wanted to accept that. They said you can feel the fish moving better on braid. I can feel that with mono. I can see the line move also. I just don't see the benefits of it tbh.
I like the leader as well but I'm mostly pan fishing. I don't use it as much with thicker braid when fishing for bigger fish depending on the clarity of the water. Seems like sometimes the fish don't give a crap and bit e on anything while other times they're so dang finicky you have to go total stealth mode. But another great thing with the mono/fluorocarbon leader is I can always throw a bobber on. Using super thin braid it's hell trying to use bobbers lmao oh well, to each their own for sure. If you're catching fish, that's what counts 😁
You asked if we had tried using straight floro........yes I have. Your points are all valid......tying the knots is a pain. However, the one thing you didn't mention........straight floro is a pain in the butt to deal with all the line twists and "backlashed" (yes, even on a spinning reel) coils. I tried straight floro for a while on all my spinning gear, but after tons of frustration with the terrible line twist, I went back to braid/floro. Catch plenty of fish, too.
That’s good to hear, I know we’re not alone, there’s a lot of fishermen just like us !!
Same...yes man, there are actual anglers out here that do shit based on logic and knowledge. However, we are rare. The vast majority of bass fisherman today watch some dude on CZcams trying to sell them something that's completely pointless and fall for it hook, line and sinker everytime. (No pun intended) Then they will argue you down about it when you tell them it's pointless like they're some kind of expert. 😂
As a new bass fisherman I’m having a hard time picking up the settle (tic) bite from a smally. Doesn’t braid help with that? I’m using a small 3” swim bait. My buddy is out fishing me 25-1 because I just can’t feel it. Thanks for these videos.
I never paid to much attention to the braid or no braid argument and I use braid to leader exclusively because im on a budget and it seriously helps out...both sides of the argument makes complete sense and everyone should use what fits the best for them and I am really at a loss why people get so offended by this, it's insane!
Thank you for the advice 👍
Good talk. I only use braid to leader. LOL I grew up fly fishing and tying my own 4 to 6 part leaders. We would have 4 to 6 different mono sizes that we would tie together to form the leader. I can tie a blood knot and surgeons knot and Uni knots with my eyes closed literally. I have done it many times. But I have never liked Floro had to many bad experiences with it. But I have never tried some of the newer higher dollar Floro. I might give it a try someday.
Thanks for the insight and experience. Something to consider
I’ve caught a tone of fish on straight braided line… 🤷🏻♂️🤣