Layering Coatings, Sealants & Waxes: Why? Why Not? - DETALKS
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- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- One of the BIGGEST topics in the detailing industry is whether or not you can layer coatings, sealants, and wax. Which one goes first? Can a wax go over a coating? Can you coat over a sealant? Our detailing Pro's break down the facts on these top coat paint products and what you can and can't do!
We all know that guy that spends two days putting 17 coats of wax on his ride. What he doesn't know is that it's not layering, but just removing the previous layer. Certain paint protection and gloss enhancing products are meant to be layered (Typically you can layer a Wax over a Sealant), but for all other products, it's just a waste! Many people with Ceramic coatings do not need to wax or seal their car, but can they? Of course, it just won't absorb like unprotected paint. Our detailing Pro's have experienced every paint protection combo first hand, and give you the knowledge to save time and money with car detailing. Need help on how to apply ceramic coatings, sealants, or wax? Please check out our other tutorial videos on the channel!
Let us know what your favorite top coat paint product is!
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Have a suggestion or want to ask a question?
Head over to the ALL-NEW DeTalks Facebook group and let us know: / detalks
Check out the Optimum Synergy Podcast: optimumsynergypodcast.libsyn.com/
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Guests: Yvan Lacroix & Levi Gates
Recorded by Dane Hennen & Anthony Fisher
Edited by Dane Hennen
Content provided courtesy of The Rag Company ©2017 - Auta a dopravní prostředky
If anyone hadn’t figured it out yet, that layered sealant Yvan was referring to was zaino.....and I remember those days with people bragging in their forum signatures how many layers they had applied lol
I remember when I first applied Opti-Coat for the first time back in 2012. I put a small circular high spot on my windshield where it didn't obstruct my vision but the wipers still hit to test it's durability. 5 years and 80k later when I sold the car, the spot was still there as fresh as the day I applied it. If that's not a testament to it's strength then I don't know what is. I still have some left that will be going on my new (to me) vehicle this Spring. If you're on the fence, this stuff is the real deal and the only permanent coating like it.
The Rag Company made me a believer of ONR, P&S BeadMaker, and waffle weave towels. Keep up the great work Levi! God Bless and continued prayers for your success!+
Best Video on CZcams will share now. There's so much information out there but happy I found this one.
Nice to look at the mechanics and chemistry of the solvents and attributes that wouldn't usually get much exposure. Good chat.
You mean 925 coats of Zaino is a waste of time LOL. OPT for the win! Enjoyed the video.
Lmfao 👏🏼
Thank you for a great info on this video
Excellent discussion gents! Thank you!
Thanks for sharing wonderful knowledge. its a TIGHT SLAP on a face of thugs who bluffs there customers about layerings. In my country there is trend at lot of car detailing centers where they sell there services by layering the products. i was first victim of such bluff marketing when i was a customer...when i started my own business...i tried to explain alot to my customers the truth about layering...many people would not believe me & i used to loose customer even...i made practical test..showed them the results...lesser my service charges and quality i gave premium results...so after a hard battle again my business is on track and my customers had become my consumers. now this video link i can share with lot my clients & new customers as proof of correct knowledge. I AM SAD THIS OPTI COAT PRODUCTS NOT AVAILABLE IN MY COUNTRY...some day i would bring for my customers.
So wait, a professional retailer did a very nice first wax on our new Tesla 3. What should we do now at home, wax after four months, or clean and remove the layers? Nice discussion, thanks!
Finally another DETALKS!!!!!!
Wahoo!!!
I like when you guys get together! Optimum's polymer technology is #1in my book!
Thank you!!
Levi Gates how about something lke hi-temp paste wax, can i use optiseal over it.
Thanks for the great videos guys. It seems like I have caught a disease. I really enjoy keeping my vehicles clean. I wash with onrww and use a spray of meguiars synthetic spray wax when drying, so it seems I'm always topping off my wax coating. Water beads beautifully. When my spray wax is gone I'll have to try some opti-seal. Looking forward to the next video already!
Welcome the club! HAHA! thanks for watching and commenting!
Opti-Seal topped with Optimum Car Wax is amazing. Almost like an Opti-Coat "Lite"
great info as always!!! glad to see you both at mobile tech expo and hope to see you again at detailfest!!!
Awesome to see you too Man! We wont be at Detailfest this year :(
Levi Gates me either...the tickets to flight there from Puerto Rico are at 400 bucks :(
THANK YOU . OOOPPPSSS. I was putting multi layers on . live and learn AND SAVE MONEY . Now I know one will do..
These series are a treasure ...
Great vid! I always wondered why to layer and what not. luckily I've only applied a wax over a sealant or coating so know I haven't wasted my time!
Levi, I know its been discussed to some degree as far as rag washing and care. I'd like to see another episode on this and maybe get more in depth on how to handle rags used with different sealants and products. Examples, Adam's Guard and Gloss, Menzerna (jescar) powerlock, CarPro Ech2o and Reload. Can they all be cleaned out of rags using the same wash process or do they require variable amounts of APC or Vinegar be added with the detergent (free of fabric softener).
Great video. Very informative.
Thank you
some companies recommend seal, glaze then wax in that order, whats ur feeling on that? do u do recommend clay,seal,and wax after coating?
When can you know if your sealant is at the end of its life if you top the sealant with a wax? if after say 6 months of the sealant being applied and being topped up with wax every once in a while dyou need to strip down the paint in order to reapply sealant?
thanks
fantastic advice - will now review whether O use Fusso sealant followed by R222 Carnuba wax ...... please what do you think ? ok to do ? synergies here or not ?
This is the most informative video on the subject on CZcams.
So, how about the drying aid process, should you use optiseal, or the wax with every wash ?
BTW... Love the OPT tie.
Great conversation. By the way, can I order that ONR/Opti-coat tie?
Hello, I was wondering if it's fine to add a ceramic coating like cquartz UK 3.0 to my car but it came with a "permaplate" which is some sort of paint sealent would it be fine to just add it or would I have to find a way to remove this "permaplate".
I have ceramic coating (2 yr) on my car. Will a booster or wax be best? After 2 years how do I re-coat with ceramic coating?
Wolfgang says their Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0 is a water based sealant and that it can be layered. I clayed my car last December and then applied 2 layers of Wolfgang a few days apart. Anyone know if Wolfgang sealant is able to be layered for sure? Forums seem to say people add a 2nd coat just to make sure you have even coverage and maybe it does bond to itself for added durability.
I have a sealant over my new Honda Si. How long before do I wait to wax it?
Hmmm, so if you apply Gyeon Wet Coat during rinse and then use Hyper Seal as a drying agent, the Hyper Seal will remove the Gyeon Wet Coat ?
I tried washing with Gyeon Bathe+, using Gyeon Wet Coat during rinse and using Opti-Coat Hyper Seal as a drying agent and the results are way better than if I just use one or the other.
I can definitely see the hydrophobicity building up as the wash progresses.
I dont know about layers, but adding protection at different stages of the washing process absolutely leaves more protection on the paint in the end.
Good video, very informative
Thank you!
Would applying a glaze then a wax be the same as layering multiple coats of wax ?
Can I top off turtle wax seal and shine over kenzo 10h ceramic coating?
can i apply a wax like autoglym hd was over a ceramic coat or any type of wax over a ceramic coat ?
What if you use a wash n wax deatailer and then a regular wax after a wash
So you can actually use ONR wash and wax and still apply optiseal. Will optiseal have the same endurance?
Hey I don't know if OPT has a engine cleaner protectent
What about doing a glaze, then a sealant and then a wax? The glaze is applied by pad and the seal and wax are spray applications.
Makes sense, though some products instruct you to apply 2 layers for maximum protection. Ex. Jescar pw+ and griots 3 in 1 ceramic
That's for coverage. To cover spots that may have been missed.
If a product bonds to the clearcoat and hardens as a super slick surface. How is anything else going to adhere itself to an already super slick surface?
Soo these new sio2 spray sealants. Everything I’ve seen either uses them standalone or on top of a coating. But can they be used to seal before wax? And is that even worth it
most likely not as Si02 spray sealants are slick enough to withstand the wax being able to bond to the spray sealant. As said in the video, the coating sheds off the sealant, or in this case, the silica spray sealant sheds off the wax
There’s sealants where the maker and the chemist of that specific company making the sealant would recommend 2 coats for there sealants I respect his opinion but he can’t know how every sealant works lol and there’s channels on CZcams where they show 2 layers may last longer then just one with certain sealants or coatings
So is there a video of this one step ?
After the Gloss Coat cures and sheds the opti-seal in about a week, do you need to "top it up" periodically with anything or just keep using ONR for washes? Also, after the gloss coat is cured, how would it react to a Touchless car wash?
i dont know if you have been answered about this, but i think in one of their maintenance videos, they actually use hyper seal as a drying agent over the coating to maintain it. really great product
Im curious about tinted clear coat
So when somebody says there's a buildup of wax on your car and that's the reason why it's dull. Or does not shine. it's not true and you cannot has wax buildup?
Anyone know if with Wolfgang Deep Gloss Paint Sealant 3.0 would it be a waste of time applying a 2nd coat after the first coat has properly cured for a min 24 hours? Or are there solvents in it that would simply replace the 1st coat and I end up wasting product?
Wolfgang deep gloss sealant has cleaning agents in it for unclayed surfaces. So a second coat would definitely polish away the first coat. If you want to layer sealant, use a product that doesn't have cleaning properties. Meguiar's M26 is one product designed to go on top of sealant because it has zero cleaning power and is very gentle.
Please make video about how to maintenance a coating. Let's say after 6 months, Can i clay it?
With OPT yes, that is all that is required!
When you speak about coat, do you mean glaze for example or ceramic right ?
Cause as far as I know, we can use layers like this : Glaze first, Sealant second, Wax third. ( Glaze acts longer than sealant that acts longer than wax ). Am I right ?
Thank you. May I take the opportunity to talk to someone who knows more than me and ask this please.
I will get my new car in decembre and I wanted, when I receive it, to make a full detailing ( as a hobby ). And concerning the protection of the car ( it is a metallic black ) I wanted to choose 3 protection products to work on the car. I choose 3 products from the same company, considering it is better as they will interract correctly between each other and here is my choice ( if I can have yout opinion on that ? ) thanks.
Glaze : CG Glossworkz Ultimate Glaze
Sealant : CG Jetseal
Wax : CG Butter wet wax ( with carnauba )
I also bought the CG top coat extreme which is like a 2 in 1 product ( Sealant and wax ) but will not use it ( maybe later )
And to finish this post, I also intend in taking a sprayer wax ( to work faster for intermediate cleaning ) : CG instawax
Thank you in advance.
I've had issues with Ghosting on my cars, I try to put a Caranuba on over a sealant and I buff it out but a week later the wax haze reappears. Am I just not waiting long enough before buffing?
I saw the answer to this in a wideo from obsessed garage about putting powerlock plus and 845 on a WRX 3 wideos and he says the Haze you get 3 days later is just the oils coming out of the wax DONT Buff it off Just wait till you Wash the car like usual and it will wash away but if you buff it it will ruin the buffing you did in the first place putting it on.
Also wait 24 hrs before puttin wax on thats gibing it the time to fully harden up. Eben if it says its hard after 3 hours wait 24. Goin by this i will wait 24 after the first coat of selant put another coat of sealant and maybe a 3rd coat again in 24 then wax 24 after that takes a week.
I remember from a different video that even after you performed the ONR wash, clay, and wax, you could then apply Opti-Seal with a damp ONR microfiber towel after the vehicle is dry? I remember someone saying (probably Yvan) that it still will go down under the Optimum Car Wax because of the Optimum synergy. I now like the way he explained it early in the video, use it after the clay/OCW step and use it to dry as a drying aid!
Correct!
Thank you for the clarification!
how long does the sealant/wax last when applied with this method when washing with ONR?
Great discussion. Yvan nice tie. Interesting point on opti-coat shedding opti-seal within a week or so. Does gloss coat do this as well?
Yes it does as well!
Levi Gates thanks
I wash every weekend with ONR Wash n Wax. Am I making a mistake and should just be using ONR wash? Maybe use Wash n Wax once a month or so?
The beauty of Optimum is now its so easy you can do it whenever or however many times you want! I joked with Yvan that my previous Van was Gloss Coated and I use ONRWW every week and use OptiSeal as a drying aid also. He said that was overkill, I told him but I have so much fun! Point is to enjoy washing your car however you like too! Optimum just makes it easy!
Great! Cause I bought a huge bottle of ONRWW and a small bottle of the wash!
So ONR. Then clay towel with optimum wax as a lube . Then optiseal over that ..? Can you substitute optimum detailer instead of the wax, then optiseal ? Also does anyone know why the optimum fine clay towel has been on back order for at least 6-8 months ???
The wax has more lubricity than instant detailer and is stronger, that is why we use it as a clay lube. The Clay towel is back in stock at Optimum HQ, orders to resellers are heading out.
Got it ! Thanks Levi
How long do you suggest letting a sealant cure before applying wax?
Bill Buss couple of hours
At least a day, sometimes even up to a week.
We talking about a polymer sealant here and not a coating?
Well I've never seen a sealant list a cure time so it really is about safety factors. Maybe we need zero cure time? I thought in this video they said 24 hours. In another comment TRC said up to a week. I was just parroting them. The 2 hours you stated seems reasonable if no manufacturer cure time is listed.
I was curious. Meguiars has the ultimate fast finish that is like a coating and they recommend to use by itself or after waxing (as long as the wax has cured) but I'm wondering if you put the uff on after if it is like you didn't put wax on at all since uff is like a solvent? I would like to use a wax and the uff together but I'm not sure what order?
What if that chemical manufacturer had specifically formulated the sealant to be layered? This all of course depends on the chemical makeup. I think a very good conversation but there are many chemicals and products out there it’s just very hard to say yes or no. I think it depends on they company etc and mostly I agree but some product lines like Ammo (Larry K) formulates his to be layered. This is still a good over topic to discuss.
is opti seal good as a standalone product?
For sure, about 6 months of protection
What about a product like collinite 845? Can I apply 845 then a nice carnuba on top of that? I know 845 is part sealant and part wax.
Collinite is a sealant and a strong one, you can put wax on top.
FYI the company that he referred to in the late 90's early 2000's where people brag about putting 3+ coats on was Zaino. People literally put 10 layers of Zaino waxes on their Mustangs and Corvettes. Honestly, for that particular product, it made a noticeable, but very minimal difference as you layer more coats. Zaino waxes have zero cleaning power, so each goat goes on the previous coat very effectively. The lack of cleaning power in Zaino waxes means that the surface must be super clean and prepped before application.
What do you guys think about Ceramic Pro
It might work ok, but absolutely sucks to apply.
Layering is marketing hype, as are most products. Find what you like that's in your budget, and roll with it.
I literally just installed a layer of glaze and two layers of carnuaba wax. However, I think people who just love detailing and spending time with their cars wouldn't mind layering until kingdom comes! Great video though, the science behind your explanation just makes sense.
How can a sealant remobe the first layer of spolymer sealant when it has crosslinkeed and adhered to the surface, if the polymer sealant is waterbased and you apply a second layer to the already hardened first layer and there are no solbents to remobe the first layer and also does the First layer of polymer sealant get washed away if you wash your car with water and some soap NOT according to the Durability tests of last coat and jetseal they are still there so how can a water based sealant wash away the first layer of cross loinked bonded polymers if washing your car does not do it. i think you can reapply another layer as long as you habe waited a decent time likne 24 hours. You will definitely wash away the wax if you wash your car with sopa or reapply a wax but the polymers in wax habe a good chance of still remaining on the surface. so waxing with a polymer wax will adhere polymers to the clear coat and giben 24 hours they will habe bonded if they are a good type and if you reapply the waz then you will srtip the wax but not the polymers that habe bonded gibing a second layer of polymer to bond to the first but only one layer of wax will be there and that will only last a week to a month the thing that lasts 6 months is the polymer in the wax. Buy a shit car to dribe that you dont care about the paint sabes work and keep a second car that you only dribe on the weekend to look like KING SHIT IN. Then you only hab to worry bout the second car that sits in the garage all week with wax and sealant on it. Point is if you cant wash the polymers sealant away like jetseal or the last coat with acid based washes and clr and purple power and all the things they throw at it how will the product wash it away if there is no solbents in the product. they apply a second layer of that titanium ceramic or glass coat and it looks better with 2 coats than one and seems like it works putting 2 layers on and that has solbents in it maybe that titaniun cs2 stuff, not sure if it does but you can get a kamikazi that does not habe solbents in it and is user friendly bcos its water based now so how would water wash away the first coat of that stuff it wouldnt. When eber the sealant looks like its wearing out apply another coat, i dont know if it wears out from top to bottom from the top of the layer to the bond to the surface or if it wears away at the bond to the surface, if the bond of the first layer will only last 12 months and you reapply at 6 monthe does it mean the first layer will fall away from bonding to the surface at 12 months and the second layer will fall away with the first if that is the case so the second layer you applied at 6 months will only last 6 months bcos the first layer will fall away at 12 months and the second layer is only bonded to the first layer not the surface of the paitn work. so the second lyer might only last 6 months anyway bcos the first layer has already been theere for 6 months before you apply the second layer, at 12 months BOTH LAYERS WILL FALL OFF THE CAR.
Hi there
I've applied 10 layers of meguiars carnuba wax and each time I do a layer I see the depth and gloss get deeper. Why is that. And is that bad. Cheers julian from Australia
Julian Monaghan because by the time you get the 10th coat on the 1st coat has probably cured 😂
How long do you wait to use a sealant after applying say opti gloss coat?
The Rag Company Thank you
What !!!?
Cleaner wax and then just wax on the top will not get you 2 full layers ?
Nope
so you wouldn't recommend putting a layer of Wax applied with a machine over a vehicle that has been washed with a wash and wax soap
You can, as to the amount that is being applied, and staying on the surface? Hmmm... Any protection is good protection!
AND THE ELEPHANT IN THE GARAGE IS? CERAMIC COATING AND WAIT A FEW DAYS AND? F11 TIOO COATING?
1st
or not. LOL
Slight contradiction at the end guys.
You say Ceramic layering just the first coat off, but you know not necessarily as when you’ve left that high spot too long it will absolutely not shift with another layer.
Not being a dick, I’d just like to know myself because I’m confident that if you apply another Ceramic after say 24 hours, I’m certain it will layer, however, this may be detrimental to the appearance. I don’t know how 50 layers of ceramic would look but it could get a little ugly for sure.
Glaze ... Wait 24 hours ... Sealant .... 24 hours ... Paste wax
Why do I not believe most of this?? 🤔
Coatings generally come in small bottles that basically will cover 1 maybe 2 small cars or 1 big car. The instructions on all I've seen say put 1 coat. So I don't know where this 7 layers of coating is coming from. In fact I've never seen a wax or sealant product that say's put 7 coats on. So come on keep it real. I like and use optimum products but this tactic of making up stories about instructions that so called " competitors " are putting on their products is pretty lame. The other thing I find intriguing is there a lot of vids about the duration of coatings. People then hose the bonnet and say look the coating is still working 12mths since application. Then 99% of them say they regularly top up coating every time they wash with wax or sealant. So what exactly are we measuring the duration of in these instances the sealant/wax or coating?
Tomato Industries Detailing Ceramic Pro sells a coating with 10 layers as their premium package.
Sounds like you haven't been approached by Ceramic Pro. That is their biggest selling point. Layers. That is why I love Optimum Coatings, only 1 coat. we top it with Opti-Seal to protect the coating during curing, because its humidity cured it could be 7-30 days. SiO2 (Silica Dioxide) coatings like, Ceramic Pro, CQuartz, and others that come in a bottle as opposed to a syringe, need to be "reloaded" with a booster every 6 months as the surface breaks down. Opti-Coat Pro and Pro+ are SiC (Silica Carbide) coatings and the only ones like it in the world. The surface does not break down and only requires a light claying once per year! Gloss Coat is a hybrid coating a mix of both SiO2 and SiC, this allows it to retain the flexibilty of of a SiC while having more gloss similar to the SiO2, this is also evidenced in its shorter lifespan 2 years.
Ok...fair enough. Never heard of them here in Australia however I take your point. Thanks for the info.
No I have never been approached by Ceramic Pro. I don't understand why, I'm a pretty approachable sort of person.
Ok so what's the non premium package 1 coat?
Man.....where is the junkman???
Nothing but an advertisement
Plain and simple look at what your paint is telling you. And dont do both . The durability doesn't work as long as either claim to work. Pick one . Waxes are more depth and mask a lot more. Sealants are great for you lazy people that claim to wash your car every week .
Bull shit. Layering rarely removes the previous layer unless it has cleaners etc. Lost me forever !!!