Chronicles of Crime and the Noir expansion - Shut Up & Sit Down Review
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- čas přidán 23. 05. 2019
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I'm suprised you could afford to hire Patrick Stewart for such a quick cameo
Thanks for the review. I really appreciate how you mention it's not kid friendly and why it's not. I wish more reviews would mention things that people may have hangups with.
Yeah,my son (who loves detectives and stuff) saw the art-style on the box and wanted to get it.
Agreed.
The base game is not kid friendly, but the "Welcome to Redview" expansion is. Think more like Goonies.
In a years time, I'd love to see Matt come back to review the new Chronicles of Crime: Millennium Series collection + the other expansion (Redview) to see if things have improved since Noir. Very insightful take on these titles.
I'm glad fake detective PCI Express is getting more work these days.
I will never get bored of that man’s awful awful amazing name.
Missed that name first time around, now I can't stop thinking of it.
Getting overworked in the crypto mines these days
18:25 how was the line not "in case you didn't get the memo; reality isn't just black and white." *cuts to colour*
I am disappointed as well. It was so easy.
Hindsight is always 20/20 and whatnot.
@@Lugo428 The infamous catch 20/20.
Quinns in the outro could very well star in the tutorial mission of LA Noir.
Lol - I was expecting Quinns to walk into an actual holodeck at the end, like he was withholding the SFX budget from Matt's noir transition and keeping it for himself.
Are you suggesting that your keyboard *doesn't* itch?
There should be a detective pikachu version of this.
This game did not work for us. The problem is the app. The app isn't just an element of the game, it's core to the game play in a way that isn't a problem for any other app I've seen. Most apps control an element of the game, but for Chronicles, if you aren't the player holding the phone, there's literally nothing you can do except possibly organize the cards to make it easier for them to scan the codes. Compared to Unlock, there's no information at all on the cards here - their only purpose is input to the app - so there's no use in players picking up the physical components to see what they can find. There's no roles or player powers or information that is provided to just one player. This means that, for us, it always felt like one player was playing the game and the rest of us were observing, and maybe giving advice. The time pressure adds to this problem, because the player with the app can't just wait until everyone has had their say and group decision is made. They need to be near-continuously scanning codes. We did rotate the app, but while that balanced who was experience which problem at any given time, it didn't remove it. In short, this plays like a solo game - but mystery solving games are (for us, at least) only fun in a group. Our group has never had the "quarterback" problem with coop games (we play coops exclusively) until this game, which we felt forced us into this problem despite our best efforts. The experience of playing this game is one person scrolling around a crime scene on their phone while everyone else crowds over their shoulder and yells "wait, no, go left, look at that" at them.
This comment here got me thinking. Considering I am planning on playing this with my wife, and if it feels more like a solo experience, it is a real turn off for me. Maybe Sherlock Holmes detective cases would be more appropriate.
@@nedeljkodukic7279 Sherlock Holmes definitely has plenty for multiple players to do, including reading through the newspapers and such.
Matt's ability to make vigorous hand gestures without spilling his tea is amazing to me. Do all English people have this power?
This review mentions that the game includes the ability to create new scenarios and a quick search on BGG did turn up a geeklist of custom scenarios for it. Almost all of Matt's complaints about the game stem from the writing and translations of the stories included in the game, not the actual game mechanics. So that then raises the obvious question, if there are better written custom scenarios available, does that offer enough incentive for people to get the game mainly to play those?
And speaking of custom scenarios, I can totally see how you could rewrite all the text in a scenario completely for the game, but what about all the scenes where you visually look for clues on your screen in a 3D environment? Hypothetically you could completely ignore that aspect of it, I suppose, and make the game into literally just a large text adventure, but that would seem to be leaving out one of the mechanical appeals of the base game.
Great review as usual. But more importantly, thank you so much for introducing me to Garth Marenghi's Darkplace! Absolutely brilliant show that would never have found otherwise.
Day 103:
This case has bested me. A puzzle without a solution. My confusion is eating me alive. My stupefaction stumps me. Somehow, somewhere, the mysterious organization known as "Shut up and sit down" has done it: they have pulled off the perfect crime. Using nothing but a terrible game, procured for pennies no doubt, they have swindled the city, nay, the entire country! They have melted it down and produced a review that is funny, good, a paragon of entertainment value and creative freedom, and sold it right back to them at the highest markup I have seen in all my years. Then they disappeared into the wind. I have hunted them to the end of the rope. The department has withdrawn my funding. Every lead has dried up. I have only one final clue, one hope left:
A pear.
I was going to write a comment but my keyboard was itching.
Thumb up given for mentioning Garth Marenghi
3:21 Hahaha. I thought you were about to show off that bartender skill, then you drank it straight from the shaker lol
I'm quite surprised by your take on the expansion. I haven't played the base game but I've been playing Noir with my sister and brother-in-law and we've been having a great time with it. It's the best board game I've played in a good long while (I am pretty partial to co-op games). The comment about "only a game for boys" surprised me as well, seeing as my sister is loving it. But I guess maybe if you're already a fan of noir and you're going into the game with the expectation that the worldview is going to be fairly period accurate, you're more prepared for that. And I haven't really noticed any major grammatical errors, at least nothing that took me out of it (though I may not be the best judge of grammar). But the setting, the mechanics, and the fact that the cases are all based on real crimes of the time, all make this a good experience for me. Each case takes about an hour or 2, so it's a nice one to just sit down in an evening with a notebook and a glass of bourbon and solve a murder with a couple of friends.
You are clearly more than a one track lover of board games Mr Lees. Cracking review, excellently articulated.
6:07 *sees Sandy Toksvig stand-in on card #21* Sandy, NO! What have you done?!
And the award for 'Most Amusing Use of a Venetian Blind in a Review of a Board Game' goes to...
I followed your first advice and bought the game. Played two cases and I’m really glad I did. I’m not particularly sensitive about the issues you’re bothered by yet, so I’m excited about playing more. Really loving the game as a quick version of SHCD.
Those characters are well done, but also just... vaguely unsettling
I think it might be the TEETH AAAAAH GOD THE TEETH
So basically if you don't have a problem with the subject matter with Noir and you like Chronicles of crime then its worth getting.
Played a "medium" difficulty case from the base game with two friends on the weekend, and we all thought it was very good. Yes the characters are paper-thin but the time pressure, the unforeseen developments and the endless ways of constructing theories of the case make for a fun, energetic experience. If a community starts to develop around this game making great homebrew with more realistic characters then it could become something really special.
It is a good thing, that Consulting detective didn't have grammar and translation mistakes................ SUSD would not recommend games with those...
Or missing newspaper pages :(
Is it me or is the Noir piano music the same used in Whose Line is it Anyway when they play the game “Film Noir”? I am pretty sure that is the exact same! Good video!
I'd bought this before seeing the review and agree with you - treated like a disposable few evenings of fun it really works but it won't be on my games shelf for long.
You nailed the first half of the review, but the 2nd half didn’t seem consistent. At first you liked the stereotypes for the modern crimes, but then you didn’t like the noir ones because they were trying to replicate the time period. I don’t know if you just don’t like noir, or if the creators went too far. Other than that, it was a classically good susd review.
Weird to see Sandi Toksvig cameoing at 6:08 but nice to see her branching out.
" ... It's disappointing to see people failing to recognise the important difference between information being relevant to them and information being relevant". Well put.
what's the music that plays over the noir section?
25 pounds? and with an open-source app you cna make your own campaigns with? I gotta say, if the modding community of this game grows big enough, this thing has some huge potential
I don't agree much with what you said about the noir setting and it being a minus to the expansion.
Firstly, I don't think anyone actually thinks noir settings are healthy and totally okay, the whole essence of it is that it's terrible, filled, as you said, with broken and scared people.
Characters are two dimensional because, really, that's just their reality. I think if they had changed that, the whole charm of the noir setting would go away.
I guess better writing would have saved it though. But forget it, Matt, it's not Chinatown.
I've been a big SU&SD fan for a few years now. While I feel I have a grasp on their politics, I feel like they've missed the boat with their comments on Noir. It seems that they're essentially saying it's not a good expansion because of the theme. I've played Noir with my wife and another couple, and we had a great time. No one brought up or voiced the issues that Matt has here, and I can't help but ask; Was it because he was looking for them?
Maybe it's just me, but as you say, I don't see how someone can say Noir isn't worth it, but Chinatown is okay despite the artwork on the box.
No, it's not a good expansion because the writing is poor and it's turgid and boring. The rest is just a side note that's difficult to ignore. If the game had been great otherwise, we 100% would have said so.
@@shutupandsitdown Thank you for the clarification!
In watching the video it seemed you touched on the writing and gameplay for a short period of time, and then talked about the setting and historical bit for several minutes.
Have a great weekend!
@@shutupandsitdown
Gotcha, it's an interesting point to use as criticism, but I get it
Thanks for being great and keeping my interest in this hobby very much alive, have a great one!
@@shutupandsitdown Honestly, it didn't feel like a side note, it felt like that was a clear focus of everything you said about the expansion. I thought you were saying it was boring explicitly *because* the clumsy writing leaned too hard into the noir stereotypes (especially after saying the biggest problem with the base game was also clumsy writing which leaned too hard into stereotypes).
Incidentally, to what extent do you think your friend's comment might have soured your experience of the expansion (or did you already find it boring before they said anything)? If I was playing a game and a friend stepped in with such a devastating dismissal, I can't imagine how the game could do anything to re-establish a fun atmosphere.
I'm still unsure how this really plays.
The best review I've seen. Sincerity goes a long way. Congrats on a top notch job.
I'm liking Detective, though. Anyway, great work guys, as always
I personally prefered the goofy clichés in Noir than in the „modern“ base game.
I absolutely love this game. Haven't tried Noir yet (I backed CoC on kickstarter so I have Noir and the Stranger Things-esque expansion), but it's very fun and full of laughs as my friends and I run around shouting accusations at random people. The writing isn't perfect but I didn't notice it being as bad as y'all seem to think, and I'm pretty picky on that front normally. Could just be because I was already bought in to the premise though, not sure.
Fun fact: The original Swedish title of the novel "The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo" was "Men Who Hate Women."
I really respect you guys are your review style. I don't agree with your take on the Noir expansion but your review so very clearly explained why you didn't approve of it and simultaneously completely sold me on it.
"I don't remember who half these people are". Well, that's Edward G Robinson, that's Lauren Bacall, that's Orson Welles, et cetera. I agree with everything Matt said in his review, but I found the Noir characters easier to follow because we were calling them by the actors' real names.
I bet if Basil Rathbone was on one of the cards, the biased bastards would have no trouble remembering.*
* Just kidding about the biased bastards thing.
App don't work on poor peoples fones. Check app compatibility before buying.
The rulebook says Android 4.4 or newer and iOS 8 or newer, but when I went to the App store today, it says iOS 9 or later. I don't even have a smartphone, but I have an old iPad with iOS 9, and it appears it will work for me, but maybe not long-term.
Is the person at 7:02 Quinns preparing for the criminologist window gag? If it is, and on purpose, that's some serious attention to detail, jeez.
Either way, bloody good video as always!
Well spotted! There's no hiding things from you
Really like the idea of a Film Noir Detective game but doesn't look like this is the one.
Is Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective the best alternative or are there better options?
"A cooperative crime solving game-"
Ooooo! ❤
"With an integrated digital app-"
Oh.😢
Next on Chronicles month: Batman Gotham City Chronicles
What accent was that Matt!? Vaguely scouse in parts, BBC Generic Northern?
Can you do a Review to "Pandemic - Rapid Response" ? Woul be really interested what you think about this new approach to the Pandemic universe
I've played it once, and want to play it again. But it reminded me more of other speed dice games, like Escape from the Cursed Temple, than of base Pandemic.
Taking your turn in 15 seconds and using only two dice is often better than taking 35 seconds and using all of your dice.
Omg when he drinks the kahlua
Wow a "Life on Mars" reference
Quinns' grim face - 10/10
I watch Shut Up & Sit Down for the mini-essays about the reasons behind genres.
My favourite game of last year :)
To be honest, this is one of the most disappointing Kickstarter purchases for me. I love the basic concept of it. I was so hyped to play it. But the story itself is so paper thin and the mechanisms more fiddly/annoying than how it played out it my mind. On the other hand, yes, the actual writing in Detective is not good. But it has a very rich plot which kept me engaged throughout.
@@kustomkure I agree. Detective was my favourite game of 2018, that's in spite of acknowledging some of its flaws
Hey, my photo! Nice!
It's so complicated to sort out these detective games to find out the best one. They all have pros and cons.
Calling from 2022. All the paid cases I saw on the app, were credited. Including, a case from Mark Hein Hagen in VtM universe!
Geezus, what a review! What a fantastic and comprehensive deconstruction of a board game that needed to be discussed more maturely. Solid, solid work.
OH how I want to play this game so bad!
I still see this as an app assisted by a boardgame, not the other way around.
Always follow the money
Would've been nice to see what the noir stuff looks like without that filter.
I'm not sure if I really like this game. Yes, it is fun to scan things, and searching the crime scenes for clues is really cool. And there are many scenarios available for small many online. But then again, it relies on the phone too much in my opinion. It is not part of the game, it is the game. The only thing you do with the cards is scan them. When we played it, it kinda ruined the flow that whenever you put together a theory, you have to scan 2-4 cards to even see if it may be right. And you still should write stuff down, because even though you can check the things you scanned in a log, it is kinda... bad designed. But you need to remeber little details, cause this game is not easy at all. Also, we turned of the autoscan, because it scans every card it can and by that wasting precious time. It really isnt a bad game per se, but a different one. With features you have to like to enjoy it. I will still play it again, but usually after one round, it goes back into the shelf.
This is an amazing game. Love this channel but often completely agree with the channels opinions and It's good to have channels that don't love everything they play and review. This isn't a problem as it reminds me not to take one or two people's opinions as gospel💙✌
Kahlua is a stiff drink? Whoa there tough guy.
Haha all part of their comedic brilliance!
You're announcing that you're having a chronicles month after the first lifesigns of a doomtrooper game in what a year? 🤔
i wonder why they didnt mention the vr variant even once...
Perfect timing! I was just getting worried that I'd run out of good stuff to watch at work!
Edit: Is that the Jet Set Radio logo there? Up and to the right of the The Moon Zelda sticker? I don't speak squigglegraffiti, but it sure looks like it!
Would you believe I'm also watching this at work?
@@Lugo428 I would!!
I was recommended the CoC base game over Sherlock consulting detective by my local game shop owner. He stressed that the use of the app (that also translates multilanguage) / QR code mechanic, allows for greater interactivity and ease of use. Accessibility and interactivity are strong features of this game, that in my opinion successfully offers a great immersion in the story at every playtime. I didn’t find the writing particularly bad, nor problematic in its stereotypical portrayal of some characters, but it definitely is hyperbolic and stylised. Rather than aiming at portraying ‘real’ police investigation (like detective a modern crime game did), in CoC the stories unveil before your eyes, on behalf of the slightly cartoony/goofy characters in that universe, by virtue of their words and their thoughts. These character respond to your action in a different way every time you interact with them, and they feel alive, and that is, in my opinion the real strong point of the app game mechanic. I think this aspect of the game deserves a praise, because it could have been yet another gimmick, in a board game universe that is full of them. That being said this game might not suit all, the themes are adult and definitely unfit for children, and the story might be not as memorable or deep as other titles, and maybe the Noir expansion is not up to the level of the base game. I am very curious to go try consulting detective as originally intended and see how far these deduction games could be taken :)
I'm honestly asking, is the Noir expansion bad because of the game or because people don't like noir? I love classic film noir, books, and games like Rockstar's L.A. Noire, and have been looking for board games that can capture that wonderful style. Perhaps I got the wrong impression, but it seems like it was negatively reviewed because of personal taste for the genre and not for game flaws.
My thoughts exactly.
I think they don't like the writing. A game only fif men isn't a critique of mechanics rather a emotional appeal based on your political leanings
Yeah, a review that is not only very deep, but talks about my music =)
You sound like Liam Neeson every time you say, "Follow The Money"
Detective looks good, or maybe it's just that the reviewers are really good. Hmm.
Huh I hadn't considered that the old man, young woman model partly was a result of a lack of young men. Interesting point.
Could you write us a SUSD case then fellas?
I guess the one disappointing thing I find about this game is that you have this app which will necessarily be playing on devices capable of multimedia and yet every single interrogation consists of staring at a paragraph of text. Where's the voice acting? Where's the animation?
Nice review. I got this game a while back and have played it with a few different groups and so far everyone loves it.
Shame to hear about Noir as was looking forward to trying that one :(
Didn't know about making your own adventures... very cool!
@David Polson Yeah I might still get it once I've completed the original stories. Thanks for this comment ;)
The writing in Detective didn't detract much from the game. We laughed when we read the text, which if anything just made it more fun. It seems harsh to write off Detective for its writing but not Chronicles, which for me was a trashier, immature take on the genre by comparison.
They also don't mention that if you're the kind of person who doesn't want to be staring at an app for hours on end, this isn't for you either. I found the reliance on technology a bit of a drag, whereas I'm sure others will find it exciting.
good review
Thank you for this. These subject matter elements that are totally inconsequential to a lot of lucky players make a huge difference to whether most of my group can relax and enjoy a game or not.
Here after miserably failing the first six cases of Consulting Detective
Wait, people actually want to *live* in a Noir setting? What?
Next you'll be telling me people want to live in Westeros :|
Gosh id just love to live in Fallout
What a wonderful setting
Tasty tasty radiation
Even if this guy were reviewing television shopping channels or rating episodes of The Bill Cosby Show, I would probably still watch it.
I followed the money... It took me to my wallet... Where to now?
The shops so you can get a wallet that doesn't leave a trail of your money.
I think it involves a laundrette
We liked Detective, loved Consulting Detective, but CoC fell flat for us. Great idea, poor execution.
Just looking at the cover of the box, doesn't that look a lot like policing 70's/80's style at all? It does to me. All this to say, maybe that explains the cliches of character types etc that you allude to, ar am I over-reading it and attributing too much smartness to the enterprise? Great review, by the way.
I honestly don't understand the noir criticism and I've seen the review a couple of times now.
I did some research myself and I think it depends on the things you enjoy about the game. Noir has some pretty good reviews, so there is a chance you might like it. As far as I understand, they enjoy it because it is not so serious. Characters are simple, it is full of cliches,... it works, allows for fun. As far as I understand, they feel Noir takes a more serious approch. For example the characters are not over stylized and therefor lose some character and also some fun. Also are the general Noir topics more serious and not everyone can enjoy them steriotized. I am not so sure about their point of view when it comes to the new actions, but they did not seem to excited about it. From what I have read some enjoy the new options and the possability to threaten or bribe, others dont think it was well implementet and may dull down the experience or at least reduce the detective work without offering enough in exchange.
But as I saied, there are some pretty good ratings for the expansion. I just think it depends on personal preference. Do you mind grammer errors? Do you want options like bribing/threatening or do you prefer to get information by thinking? Do you like the Noir setting and what are your expections for the setting?...
I guess they just did not like the focus of this expansion and would rather have seen improvements to also have a more serious experience.
The pear did it 😨.
Another nice SU&SD review, but I feel like this is more literary criticism than a board game review. Sure, the game plays on stereotypes, and sure, the Noir expansion is overly archaic and masculine. But the stereotypes make the game very playable. And it seems to me that the Noir designers are aware of the sexist film history they are playing on. I do think that people should be conscious of stereotyping, so I'm glad the issue is raised. But in Chronicles, it wasn't enough to get in the way of us having some crime-solving fun.
Ooooooo new graphics!
LMAO follow the money!
My brother has this, I think my least favorite thing about this game, is it feels like it's just a video game with an awkward controller. I seriously think we would've had more fun just playing Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney on the TV together instead of streaming Chronicles of Crime from the phone to the TV. Better writing and characters at least.
That super unfocused scene, though! =(
Very good review, and I really love you pointing out that parts people can have issues it - while being a good game at the same time.
Both aspects are important, and it's kinda sad that few people notice even the possibility. Nuance is great, but I kinda expect it from you guys at this point. Great as usual :)
People can always take issue with anything.
It doesn't take much effort to find a anything "someone" might object to; it's not characteristic of a nuanced or balanced critique but more of an emotional appeal or an excuse to tear down a strawman.
Case in point...
Chronicles of Crime: The Liar, the Snitch and the Wardrobe-full-of-drugs
Yeah... I'll need some more time to work on this one..
I wouldn't trust PCI Express given his recent controversial take on 'good murders'
Bought this a while ago. Already planned that when I finish the cases you have direct access to I will sell it back.
If anyone can enjoy this game, I won't dismiss that, y'all have fun. I'm not the fun police.
But I don't like a boardgame with digital elements, because if I need an app to play a game, then to me it's not a boardgame anymore it's a videogame with very expensive physical elements.
And, I don't see why it couldn't have just been an app in the first place - digital gameboard and all.
A book definitely would slow you down, but I find that more fun.
I love the tempered, nuanced approach.