Was Sir Topham Hatt Wrong In Lost Treasure?
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
- Was Sir Topham Hatt wrong or right in Lost Treasure? Lets look at BOTH sides and find out!
🟠 PATREON: / thomastheorist
CHAPTERS:
0:00 Intro
2:07 Case #1 - The Case AGAINST Topham
6:13 Case #2 - The Case FOR Topham
12:13 Conclusion
13:30 Update
MUSIC CREDIT
Mission Impossible PIANO @ • Mission: Impossible Th...
Fat Controller Theme REMIX @ • Thomas & Friends - The...
Sir Topham Hatt Theme @ • Sir Topham Hatt
Moments @ • Moments
UPDATE - Thank you for all your kind words! I've sent out plenty of CV's to other Carpentry shops near me, and a good few have gotten back so I should be back on the horse in a few weeks. I just needed to get this off my chest since it was happening while I was making the video. Thank you for all for your support during this time❤
sorry you got fired you and Thomas were both faulted on by the manger(or in the dynamite scene)
Good luck lad
Wish you the best, you deserve it ❤
Wish you luck 😊
Good luck, Adam! You’ll do great! 😁
As divisive as Fat Hatt is in this movie, he will never be nearly as harsh as how Internet articles portray him.
Those children on Deviantart are acting like the people behind those articles.
@@joshuaW5621 Which children?
@@magnum_pig_2004 the ones making hate art of Topham giving out to Thomas.
True.
@@joshuaW5621 As if the hypocrisy of the fandom and even those brainless children on DeviantArt is not obvious enough, it's pretty much why this fan discourse needs to stop. The hypocrisy being how the fandom berates those lib-shit journalist idiots for those shitty clickbaity articles, yet they act like them themselves because of both what you pointed out and how they reacted to Sir Topham's reaction to all three of the incidents Thomas put on himself, not only onto others.
A thing some people forget about Sir Topham is that, first and foremost, he is a BUSINESSMAN, not just some eccentric Playboy! If he gets angry with someone, it's usually because they've disregarded an order from him directly such as "Deliver these goods to this location by this time and do it carefully" or regulations as laid out by national bodies such as the Ministry for Transport or the National Railway Safety Board. He'll also get angry if infrastructure or rolling stock of the railway gets damaged because he knows it's going to cost time, money and resources to repair or replace and he might not be in a situation to do that easily.
Exactly. If these people complaining were real Thomas fans they would understand that running a railway is not an easy job. Money does not grow on trees.
If we take Who’s Geoffrey into account, Thomas has been lying for a while. I think Topham was in the right, Thomas kept putting the blame on others and lying, of course Topham’s gonna be angry
What I like is how the fans made Geoffrey from who’s Geoffrey into an actual character
8:23 exactly what I always say. Thomas clearly knew that hopper was full of bad coal and yet he decided not to warn Ryan.
After dynamite 🧨 chase everything was fine until Sir Topham Hatt showed up being harsh on Thomas refused to let him finish his sentence what actually happened
@@vanessasandoval96 that was because Thomas was denying the accident being his fault again. How do you people still not get it?
For how often Topham was treated as comic relief (oftentimes overly so), I really think that Lost Treasure is honestly the best depiction of him in the Brenner Era, he can be really firm but he also takes pride when his engines try their best much like a proper father figure would
You think this is funny
In a cosmic sort of way yes
Well Mr funny man is this how you get your sick kicks
What nothing wrong Sodor Legned of the- OH MY Goodness Andrew Brenner
@@vanessasandoval96 Right, did you ever read the RWS, let alone watch the classic series? Because TFC isn't meant to be a buffoon to be laughed at, he is meant to be a respectable authority figure. And besides, there actually isn't anything wrong with the movie
@@vanessasandoval96nobody wants to listen to you kid.
I just assumed Topham was being extra angry because there were things going on at home.
Lady Hatt was causing confusion and delays with James' driver.
@@skarloey1214🤣💀
@@skarloey1214I was thinking something like Dowager Hatt being seriously ill🤒
Never let bro out of basement@@skarloey1214
In a way this movie is basicly the imfamous 3 strikes formula done right
Indeed it is.
That’s true.
I wouldn't say done right, I'd say done STELLAR
@@ThomasTheTankEngineNWRNo.1 Okay
I feel like the reason people hated this scene when it came out wasn't really because he got too mad, but more so because it was weird to see Topham like this when in the rest of the brenner era, he was depicted as pretty easy going and forgiving, even a friend to the engines at times. I do still think he was a bit too harsh in the movie, but that's not the main problem.
Maybe it's because he's feeling stressed out of all the work going on with the new branch line construction.
@@dylanlyles9453 Bull shit! Topham was a total asshole for not listening to Thomas after the dynamite incident.
Do always love SLOTLT it’s more likely over hated to me
I still think he was turned into the comic relief character because Americans see the top hat and immediately think he's a villain.
His depiction in SLOTLT basically caused the Americans to go "I knew he was a villain all along"
@@gothnerd887 That's ridiculous! What about Scrooge McDuck? He wears a top hat but he's not a villain. He's just a grouchy old coot but also a family man.
IM SO SORRY YOU GOT FIRED
I HOPE YOU GET A BETTER JOB WITH A BETTER BOSS SOON!
I'll admit I was angered by STH in the dynamite scene when I first saw Lost Treasure. But after each consecutive rewatch, he actually does have a right to be raged with Thomas. Considering that he didn't warn Ryan about the bad coal and not knowing the fact he was carrying dynamite - in his attempt of saving everyone, he pretty much wasted every single one of the load resulting in the Harwick extension being delayed more and STH having none of it. Even when Thomas stated it wasn't his fault, but it actually was - cause every single crash was caused by him and he was too proud to admit it.
So in a way, it's justifiable for STH to call out on Thomas for his actions.
But STH was wrong to think Rocky was the one who found the pirate ship, even though Thomas was the one who fell into the cavern.
I also feel angry, but also scared in a way.
@@ryanfuller912 so, scangry?
@@dylanlyles9453well since Thomas was still being dishonest to him and since Rocky was able to lift up the ship, I guess maybe Topham wouldn’t have thought that Thomas could have actually found it, or he needed Thomas to learn his lesson before praising him.
@@dylanlyles9453 Something like that I guess
YES. YES HE WAS. Every single time the accident was Thomas' fault and every time he refused to own up to his mistakes and tried to shift the blame on innocent bystanders (yes, even the third time). Why on Earth would Topham be wrong for punishing that kind of behaviour? I hope that's what the video's gonna say
That's true, but he was wrong to think Rocky was the one who found the pirate ship, even though Thomas was the one who fell into the cavern.
@@dylanlyles9453maybe he overestimated how deep the ship was.
I agree AF
I've always been on the side that Topham was in the right throughout the film, and after S19 portrayed him mostly being a goober, this was such a pleasant change of pace.
I also like how you brought up Who's Geoffrey feels like a setup to Lost Treasure. A good chunk of Brenner episodes feel like that to the later movies - The Phantom Express/The Smelly Kipper feel like a premonition to Tale of the Brave, Thomas the Quarry Engine/Old Reliable Edward feel like a premonition to the Adventure Begins, etc.
What about Toad's Bright Idea? The Episode happened DURING Tale of the Brave.
If I saw a giant explosion and the engine that was being a pain for the past week was involved, I’d be pissed too
I’ll give the answer: He was right the first time Thomas screwed up, but wrong the second and third times.
I SERIOUSLY C-C-COULDN'T HAVE CLEARLY P-P-PUT IT BETTER MYSELF!!!!
@@DavidScholz-bu1ix Thank you. Also, am I missing a reference with the way you worded that reply?
What did he do wrong the second time? The accident was Thomas' fault and he tried to blame everyone else like in the first accident
@@Kukaak I don’t remember it being Thomas’ fault.
@@trainlover16 Thomas arrived at a construction site and started recklessly racing around with a train. A construction site is a dangerous place and those who work there must obey safety rules. Thomas should've at the very least looked out for danger signs. He also shouldn't have taken the train of building materials because he didn't know where it was supposed to go or even if it was supposed to be moved. He should've asked what his job was instead of messing around
I'll be completely honest here after watching this video in its entirety. While I do admit Sir Topham Hatt's behavior was a bit much in the movie, it's way better than how he was portrayed in the previous season. Plus, he's just doing what any controller would do. While I do wish he let Thomas explain himself, sometimes a boss, i.e., STH, would rather get the situation over with before going back to realize their mistakes. That part alone is one of 2 things I dislike about the movie, the other being Ryan as I feel like he could've been better. Those parts aside, it doesn't change my overall opinion on SLOLT as it's since become my favorite Thomas movie for what it did not only for the 70th anniversary of The Railway Series, giving us one hell of a score to listen to, and getting several celebrities to have a role within the movie. A wonderful film that I doubt I'll ever dislike for the foreseeable future.
I feel The Fat Controller was in the right in SLOTLT. Mostly because I'm not like the people on Deviantart that makes hate art out of him scolding Thomas.
I’m making a criticism video on those kids soon because they’re making Topham look like how the media portrays him.
@@joshuaW5621I'm gonna have to see that when it's out! Lol
I don't know what Deviantart you've been on, but most of the people I've seen support Sir Topham Hatt on that site, with maybe two people who don't.
@@joshuaW5621 When will it be out?
@@Whoasked-bc5ui by this rate it will probably be out next month if I have to guess.
I honestly think that Topham was right in SLOTLT and that he was rightfully mad at Thomas, considering that the engines are sort of like his children and he wants them to be their best selves, so of course he scolds them when they mess up since mistakes are the best learning experience
I always think that SLOTLT was the boiling point for Sir Topham Hatt to finally think that he should one day put his foot down on Thomas' shenanigans when Thomas goes way too far with his high degree of stupidity, eagerness or arrogance.
Usually I think any of the first engines that Topham would put his foot down on would be either Thomas, James, Gordon or maybe Diesel.
1 thing I wish that could've been mentioned in the movie was that Thomas could've brought up that he was the first one to find the pirate ship in the sinkhole not Rocky.
Thomas could've blamed Gordon since he was being a pompous turd to him about tender engines not shunting.
Topham has had far worse moments when it comes to running his railway or things that his engines didn't cause whether it was something that wasn't out of his or her control or caused by someone else out of spite, sabotage and for revenge.
Examples:
Middle Engine
Misty Island rescue
Steam Team to the rescue
Slippy Sodor
Yeah for example about SLOTLT is reference to Middle Engine
@@vanessasandoval96At least the movie didn't have Thomas being pushed onto a coal tipper by Henry while being sandwiched between 2 trains by Arry and Bert and also letting them get away with no consequences.
0:15 I’m in the first group, but it’s my second favorite. There’s something about The Adventure Begins that makes me put it above Lost Treasure.
13:30 I’m sorry that you were unfairly fired.
12:52 I think you're right about fans hating Topham because they sympathize with Thomas, because I am one of those people; but I think Topham was right to be cross, even though he could've let Thomas speak.
The Fat Controller: [raging furious, screaming] THOMAS THE TANK ENGINE!!!
Thomas: Uh-oh.
The Fat Controller: [raging furious] What are you playing at now? I thought you could learn to be more responsible if I sent you to work here.
Thomas: [tries desperately to explain] But, sir! This time, it's really not my fault! I...
The Fat Controller: [rudely interrupts, still raging furious, refusing to listen] NO, THOMAS!!! I've had quite enough of your excuses! Go to your shed immediately, and you can stay there for the rest of the afternoon!
[MIRABEL MADRIGAL APPEARS]
Mirabel Madrigal: How dare you do this, Topham! HOW DARE YOU PUNISH THOMAS JUST BECAUSE HE WAS SAVING YOUR QUARRY FROM THE DYNAMITE!!!!
Sir Topham Hatt: That changes nothing! I saw him pushing the dynamite, so he was the one to blame!!!!
Mirabel Madrigal: Oh, so now you wanna blame him again!
Thomas: Now, now, why don't we all just act like nothing happened?
Mirabel Madrigal: [To Thomas] You stay out of this! [to Topham] FUCK YOU, SIR TOPHAM HATT, YOU BIG FAT SHITHEAD BITCH TWAT! FUCK YOU TO BLOODY HELL!
[She grabs Sir Topham Hatt's arm, and cuts it with sharp scissors. everyone gasps]
Sir Topham Hatt: OUCH!!!!!
Mirabel Madrigal: Oh, I Haven't started yet. [she snips his arm more and more. Sir Topham Hatt screams in pain. everyone watches in horror. Mirabel pushes Topham to the ground.]
Sir Topham Hatt: Please, Mirabel! Stop it!
Mirabel Madrigal: Too late, Topham! [she cuts off his nose. there's silence for a minute or two, then, Sir Topham Hatt bursts into tears.]
Sir Topham Hatt: YOU'RE A VERY BAD GIRL, MIRABEL MADRIGAL! I NEVER WANNA SEE YOU AGAIN AS LONG AS I LIVE!!!! [RUNS AWAY, CRYING.]
he was kinda rude towards thomas, refusing not to listen to him.
Great video Adam. 👍
I agree with you that Sir. Topham Hatt was in the right. Also i think the dynamite blowing underground could have caused damage to the foundation, so that's an extra point for Sir. Topham Hatt.
I’ll admit I haven’t watched the film in years, but when I first saw it I remember being somewhat surprised by the Fat Controller’s outrages being angrier than usual, as if something outside of what we’d seen in the film had put him in a vile temper. Didn’t stop me from enjoying Legend of the Lost Treasure, but it was always something I took note of.
Right, the ONLY issue I had with SLOTLT was the Topham yelling at Thomas for the dynamite scene
Not only should he have heard Thomas out, but WHY DIDN'T ANYONE THERE BACK HIM UP?!?
To be fair, he did have a point to assume that Thomas was upto no good, that's all it really looked like. If I had it my way, I would've added an extra part to the scene when Rocky lifts him back onto the rails after crashing into the ocean where both of them apologised to one another honestly. Topham apologies for jumping to conclusions with the dynamite, and Thomas apologies for both of the accidents he caused in the film (the sinkhole and the Knapford one!)
I also would've had a scene where Topham walks out of his office and scolds Thomas for sitting around outside Knapford before he keeps watch, and tells him to go back to the new branch line's site shed but refuses as he knows what's about to happen, that probably would've made it a little better in my opinion
I dunno, this is all my silly personal opinion! I can't wait to see what you've said in the video!
feel free to disagree!
Simple answer: they didn’t wanna get involved.
I agree! They should have back Thomas up! Some friends they are!
@@stuartbarclay7940 I seriously doubt that they would want to get involved and risk getting into trouble too.
Who the hell would disagree with you?
@@joshuaW5621I'm sure Ryan should've, I mean Topham saw both him and Thomas from his car window, Ryan could've probably explained everything to him I guess
I've never had an issue with the Fat Controller in SLOTLT. If anything, I'd say this was the writers reminding us why he's the controller of the railway.
This is practically the same as when the Fat Controller punished Gordon for refusing to take a goods train and fell into a ditch or the time he scolded Thomas for being so cocky to think he could run without a driver.
But with the dynamite scene, was he in the wrong? The simple answer. No. As you pointed out, he's had to deal with Thomas' excuses twice and now, Thomas is trying to make another excuse, and what's worse is that the Fat Controller *saw* him pushing the trucks of dynamite chasing Ryan. And then after getting rid of it the same way he got rid of the new track supplies, it's basically Thomas repeating the incident at Knapford in the Fat Controller's eyes.
Sorry to hear about your job. Hope your Patreon does well.
good luck @Thomas Theorist I have been fired many times and the first real job fired me even though they didn't train me correctly.
I support both FOR and AGAINST here, I see some good PROS and CONS that made a fantastic video.
Improvement for " express engine" there are only Gordon who pulls it tho, I would understand Henry or Emily since they to had pulled it alot in the classic TTTE but, I personally would use Gordon as the picture for the
" Express engine"
Thank you for proving Topham’s innocence here. It is so annoying that people are still hating on him nearly 9 years after the movie‘s release and even after people like the Unlucky Tug, Christopher Birthwistle, the Thomas Cynic, Zack Wanzer and Mike Nicholson defended Topham (and will probably still continue even after this video cause these kids seem to have anger problems). These kids remind me of the people who claim that Topham is a devil who mistreats the engines. No wonder I’m currently working on a criticism video on these Topham haters. I’m glad there are more people like you who understand the full story and don’t take sides.
And I’m sorry you lost your job at the carpentry. While I don’t have Patreon yet, I will be quick to support you on there as soon as I join. I hope you can get another job soon.
Can you include my theory that whenever Americans see a Top Hat they think "villian"?
I have examples of non villainous top hat wearers; Professor Layton, Trucy Enigmar and Hat Kid (that last one's debatable)
Looking back on my young self I hated him because I saw Thomas as my little brother (yeah, I was a weird kid) also I was subconsciously jealous of STH's goth points.
@@gothnerd887 I’ve never really thought about it before. Looks like you might be getting a shoutout for this.
I look at it like this; Thomas caused a potentially fatal crash that blocked up the busiest station on the railway. After that it wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume that he was the cause of another incident with which he was directly involved.
I do think that the witnesses should have spoken up at some point, but it’s entirely likely that they thought Thomas had it coming after he almost killed a bunch of people at Knapford. They might have even convinced themselves that he had somehow been involved.
The thing is that had Sir Topham listened to the witnesses, Thomas would have still be punished for one simple reason: the bad coal.
Eventually, he would have asked how such a major oversight like giving Ryan bad coal in a busy construction site with dynamite could have happened, and considering how Thomas was supposed to be one to warn Ryan about it in the first place, the truth would have been out and Thomas would have been sent away in disgrace regardless.
@@extrahistory8956 I hadn’t even thought of that. Honestly I avoid thinking too much about this topic just because of how insufferable people can get about defending Thomas from STH lol
Perhaps they could've included a scene before the final chase where Thomas and Sir Topham Hatt have a small confrontation where Thomas calls Topham out for treating him unfairly after the dynamite exploded and gets Topham to understand how much stress he's put Thomas through recently and the 2 finally settle their differences.
Then Topham congratulating Thomas at the end wouldn't feel too jarring and less fans would complain about Sir Topham Hatt.
The thing is that had Sir Topham listened to the witnesses, Thomas would have still be punished for one simple reason: the bad coal.
Eventually, he would have asked how such a major oversight like giving Ryan bad coal in a busy construction site with dynamite could have happened, and considering how Thomas was supposed to be one to warn Ryan about it in the first place, the truth would have been out, and Thomas would have been sent away in disgrace regardless.
perhaps topham shoulda had a you deserve what you've gotten meme.
@ThomasFisher-jr6bn
Now that would made the film a lot better!👍
@@extrahistory8956 oh if only these pinheads in the comments would understand.
I wish that scene was real and that happened in the movie
I'd really like to see a mockup of what could've happened if Sir Topham scolded Thomas after the climax.
This made me wanna watch lost treasure again
So my honest thoughts of the subplot between Thomas and The Fat Controller in Sodor’s Legend of The Lost Treasure is that the two are both in the wrong. Yes, you heard me right. While I agree what Thomas does in this movie is wrong, what The Fat Controller does to Thomas isn’t much better. How so, you ask? Well, let me explain.
Starting with the express incident, I agree what Thomas does here is wrong. He does insult Gordon first by calling him lazy. If you’re insulting someone like Gordon, you’re pretty much asking for a fight. Also, Thomas should have ignored Gordon’s “silly little tank engines” comment, but instead, he chose to do something even worse. He derails expensive express coaches, and blocks nearly all of the main lines, delaying lots of trains! To add insult to injury, he tries lying his way out of the situation! So I completely understand why The Fat Controller punishes Thomas.
However, I see a problem with the way The Fat Controller does it. Not the punishment itself, but the way he does it. All he says to Thomas is that it was him who caused the accident and that’s it. Does he explain to Thomas why it is his fault, and why what he did was worse than what Gordon did to him? No. He doesn’t. So how is Thomas supposed to learn if what he did isn’t actually addressed properly?
Now for the cavern incident. I agree Thomas wasn’t being very smart here. He shouldn’t have jumped in where he didn’t belong. He should have asked permission to take the supplies first, as well as where the supplies were going.
However, once again, the way The Fat Controller handles it is not good. I don’t think Thomas is necessarily lying on that time. Rather, I think he’s telling The Fat Controller what he thinks happened. Maybe he didn’t hear the workmen’s warning (Granted, Thomas should have looked back to listen, but still). He’s not correct obviously, but it’s what he thinks happened. Also, I feel like dismissing Thomas the way he does is not the way to teach kids a lesson. I completely understand that The Fat Controller is trying to make Thomas learn, but that’s just not the way to do it. If you’re a parent, and you dismiss your kid the way The Fat Controller dismisses Thomas in that scene is going to give kids the message that their parents just don’t care about them, and let’s be real. Does a parent want their child to hate him/her? No! Absolutely not!
Now for the big one, the dynamite incident. Yes, Thomas should NOT have tricked Ryan into taking on bad coal, but what The Fat Controller does to Thomas is too far. He outright accuses Thomas of trying to kill Ryan! I’m sorry, but no. That’s not right. That’s just WRONG! 😡Thomas isn’t the nicest engine, but he’s not cruel! He would never, ever intentionally try to murder an innocent engine, even if he didn’t like said engine! Also, isn’t not learning the full story too far, even a little?! True, it wouldn’t have changed much since Thomas tricked Ryan into taking on bad coal, but still. So basically, The Fat Controller makes the same mistake he does after the cavern incident. Like I said, giving your kids the message that they don’t matter is just not right at all! I completely understand why The Fat Controller is doing this to Thomas, but I can’t condone it!
I found the whole debate/idea about Topham in this movie to be kinda ironic.
In what way?
@@gothnerd887because these kids who complain are missing the point of Topham’s character.
I just feel uncomfortable right now. The scene with the dynamite specifically.
How the fuck do you feel uncomfortable,is it because you're watching this video? DONT WATCH IT IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY!
@@kingadam69 No it’s the part with the dynamite, the rest of the video is fine
@@kingadam69 Exactly! The dynamite is what makes the movie great, how do you feel uncomfortable...your weird
@@BrennerEraFanhe’s probably not comfortable with the part where Topham reprimands Thomas if I were to guess.
@@joshuaW5621 True, I guess...I mean Thomas's voice saying "Uh oh" sounds kind of weird/cringe/...idk just off.
adam is the saul goodman of the thomas universe
to be honest if he apologized for his actions and said it was just a stressful time getting the branchline completed. then it would be like ok at least u admit u were at fault. bro jus sweeped it under the rug like we wouldnt notice
Thank you for making a patron we want to help. We will support you
You have to look at things from topham’s perspective and look at the seasons after e.g ‘who’s Jeffrey?’ Thomas tried blaming Gordon, Emily and Toby when he crashed into the cavern he was so focused and self centered he assumed the workmen were cheering for him rather then warning him and when Thomas disposed of the dynamite all topham saw was Thomas chasing Ryan with a truckload of dynamite and then Thomas, in a panic, tried to blame others AGAIN he’s been lying to him for too seasons and too crashes he has every right to be pissed off
I’d say Topham was in the right, Thomas was wrong for not owning up sooner. But if Topham let Thomas’s side of the situation then maybe they could’ve come to a conclusion to work something out, heck in the shunting yards Annie and Clarabel were they so they could vouch for Thomas, same for the pack members but that’s just me
Hearing someone call Thomas by is.. full name?. Is oddly satisfying
If Thomas had a middle name, it’d likely be his original road name and model: LBSC E2X, as he’s an experimental build of the London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway’s highly unsuccessful E2s.
What I don't get is why is Thomas shunting the coaches instead of Charlie, Rosie, Stanley, Stafford or Phillip when he should be doing his own branch line work and why does Sir Topham Hatt keep him on the Harwick line after messing up the third time? I am in the middle of this situation.
Tbf the show never really gave a crap about where characters work since season 3 and would have Thomas and Percy shunting in the yard sometimes or appearing on other lines so I don’t really care about that. Plus he does say that he goes to work on his branch after shunting Gordon’s coaches, so the movie didn’t forget about his branch line.
Honestly, if we take into account the build-up form "Who's Geoffrey?", Thomas' behavior and his own, how they both acted in the situations present throughout the film, what their dynamic whenever they're together had been throughout the Brenner Era and beforehand, then look through the movie again through each detail and think them over, my honest opinion in that regard is that Sir Topham Hatt, while he was wrong in some instances, is mainly in the right with what he did.
He may have lashed out at Thomas the first time for what happened at Knapford but since Gordon was too lazy to shunt his own coaches after he fell back to old habits for a brief moment, the same went for Thomas and he took the insult thrown at him personally, thus causing the coaches incident, the decision for him to take it personally and retaliate was a far worse action and STH had to take that into account as well as Gordon's part (which might've happened off-screen even if we didn't see it). And, one of the things that stood out for Thomas was the fact after the incident was caused, he tried to blame it on someone else and not admit his mistake when in reality, he WAS to blame since he retaliated against Gordon instead of flat-out ignoring him and kept on with his work. It makes sense for Sir Topham Hatt to pull the authority card as his guardian figure and draw the line right there. You also mentioned that Thomas was lazy in the opening sequence which makes me realize that he developed some sort of contentedness with himself and wanted to do things his own way which in turn made more sense why STH would blow his top as he did.
The next two times would have STH in the right and wrong with Thomas here; when Thomas had his sinkhole drop, he was eager to prove himself a really useful engine again and moved the flatbeds of new rails when he wasn't supposed to until the construction site of the line reaching to Harwick was deemed safe and could be continued to proceed. Thomas disobeyed whatever orders had been given to him a second time and he tried to blame his faults on someone else again he ended up in hot water again as a result. But, regarding the bit about the pirate ship, I'm drawing the line on Sir Topham Hatt thinking it was Rocky who found it and not Thomas; if anybody looked at how deep Thomas was in the sinkhole when he found the ship, didn't they underestimate how deep it was in? I'm more half-and-half in that regard so I won't knock STH too much here.
Of course, the dynamite scene does rub me up the wrong way on numerous fronts and on both Thomas and STH's parts but after thinking about the bigger picture with how Thomas handled the whole thing and what STH was forced to do since he didn't know what fully happened after watching it again, it makes sense for both of them to be in the right and wrong. Sir Topham Hatt may have gone a step too far with his tongue-lashing but Thomas should've warned Ryan about the bad coal he had taken and the sparks it created before they landed on the dynamite. What was worse, in saving Ryan, he had wasted several tons of the stuff that was supposed to be used for the blasting bits in creating the branch line to Harwick and he didn't realize he unintentionally made it seem like he wanted to hurt him (especially since there was a part of him that felt like he was cheated by everyone else). And, the straw that broke the camel's back was that he tried to blame someone else AGAIN without finally admitting to it so for the third time, Thomas (being the spoiled brat that he is at that point) rightfully was brought back down to earth. Only then, after everything else that went down in the movie including Sailor John's arrest and his making amends with Ryan, did Thomas FINALLY admit that everything that led to where everyone is now is his fault and admits to his mistakes and Sir Topham Hatt forgives him at last after thinking about everything and after Ryan filled him in on the whole kit and caboodle.
And, that brings me to something that you brought up that supports your findings and some people's thoughts (including my own) about Sir Topham being in the right despite a few wrongs on his part: he ADMITS to his faults and mistakes and learns from them (showing that besides being the lovable buffoon that he is in the Brenner Era whenever he's in the spotlight, he's also a loving but serious authority/guardian figure to his engines and wants what's best for them) while Thomas didn't as "Who's Geoffrey" pointed out. If we watched Season 19 first from that episode and then Legend of the Lost Treasure, it does make sense why he has a short fuse with Thomas in the movie and why he acted as he did all because Thomas couldn't admit to his faults and grow up.
You brought up some seriously great points on the subject of STH in SLOTLT and how he was portrayed in the film and after thinking on that as well as the movie involving his dynamic with Thomas, you helped me see him in a brand new light and to have much more respect for him and what he was doing for the sake of everyone around him, especially his engines being the authority and family guardian figure that he is to our little tank engine.
Gordon is too big to shunt his trains. That’s what shunters are for.
Sorry about your firing man don’t worry and keep doing what you do best make awesome and amazing videos good luck buddy. Ps thanks for the heart.
I think that Topham was in the right to be angry at Thomas because he was angry about Thomas causing a accident at Knapford Station. He was angry about Thomas not informing him about the Dynamite Trucks and the bad coal that Ryan had. He has the right to be angry in situation when a engine is causing trouble for him.
Something I noticed was after every incident, as they went on, became less and less Thomas' fault. Let me example by percentage.
Knapford Incident: 95% Thomas' fault (Gordon WAS teasing him, but that doesn't give you the right to be an asshole and then blame others for something that was clearly your fault) Topham in the right
Sinkhole Incident: 75% Thomas' fault (while true technically no one warned him about danger signs, he still should've used his brain. It's a construction site like come on dude) Topham a little bit in the wrong
Ryan Dynamite Incident: 50% Thomas' fault (Thomas was a hero and saved everyone from an imminent explosion, but it was also his fault for not telling Ryan about the bad coal. Obviously he has a problem with Ryan for even more obvious reasons, he also probably thought about blowing Ryan up at least a teeny bit. Kinda dark I know. Either way, Thomas was technically in the right) Topham almost completely in the wrong
Pirate incident: 10% Thomas' fault (This was about 10% Thomas' fault because of his actions with Skiff and John, but to be fair, how would he know that John would turn out to be evil? And before you say: "Oh well why didn't he tell Sir Topham Hatt?" Do you really think Topham would listen to him after all the stuff that happened with Thomas earlier?) Topham completely in the right (because Ryan told him what happened).
I'm pretty much on the side of "Topham being wrong" except for the first incident, Thomas was just being a dick that time. Either way though, Topham should have heard Thomas out each time and THEN decided if Thomas was guilty. And Thomas just shouldn't have blamed others, he should have taken responsibility for what he did.
I’m 100% on the Fat Controller’s side of the argument. There is absolutely no reason to think Thomas has the right to excuse himself. I feel what’s happening is that some don’t know what workplace responsibility is, especially to others, which Thomas thoroughly fails. He’s delaying the express and the passengers, he causes hundreds of thousands in physical damage, ignorance of danger notices in a constriction site is no excuse, and, as you said, the narrative rightly punishes him for the dynamite incident as it only happened in the first place because of him. Yes, Thomas technically saves the day in that scene but there are several lessons that Sir Topham Hatt’s scolding is teaching, one is that a right doesn’t always correct a wrong, Thomas still has a lot to atone for, and another is that it teaches that sometimes when we cause harm to others, we need to think of what we did rather than be outright told. The narrative is trying to say that Thomas has yet to see the error of his ways. Also, even though he did the right thing, I can't help but think that Thomas et al should've waited for some workmen to either douse the dynamite or had waited to order Ryan out of the way and then propel the lit fuses, rather than create an unnecessarily tense chase.
Thomas really got what he deserved.
I'm so sorry to hear about your job. I'd definitely encourage you to get a lawyer about this, clearly your ex-employer needs to learn a lesson.
As a former tradesman myself, I'd also encourage you to look at whatever happened at your job and see if the career is right for you (not explicitly saying it isn't). It's easy to get caught up in the financial promise of a career like that and not end up thinking about how happy you are in it. Again, not saying that it absolutely isn't, just speaking from personal experience.
Money is tight for me but I at least hope my words are encouraging for you. Keep fighting a good fight man. We're here for you.
Topham was right plus the production crew try to stick his character to the railway series
Well, that's great and all, but they could've done it a tad better. Or better still, do that for the main series instead of portraying him as some clumsy goofball.
In my opinion, The SLOTLT hatedom bash the dynamite scene the most, haven’t they ever heard of this new thing called a simple misunderstandments? The same could be said for other movies like Blue Mountain Mystery, Hell, Even My Little Pony: The Movie, Cars 2 and maybe even Cars 3, in my opinion what happened near the ending of Blue Mountain Mystery where are where Thomas Telling Narrow Gauge Engine that he told Luke’s past to Victor, and Cars 2 where made Lightning McQueen calls Mater out for making him lose the race in Tokyo, those were both simple misunderstandments like the dynamite scene, as for My Little Pony: The Movie Twilight yells at Pinkie Pie, she didn’t really mean to yell at her, she was just worried over The fact that she is the last princess that Tempest wants, and for Cars 3 where Lightning tell Cruz That he was stuck in the same speed he was a month ago because he was too busy taking care of her, and banging on the trailer wall and causing Cruz’s Trophy to break, that was all an accident, Lightning didn’t know that what’s going to happen. But be fair, as much as Thomas made some Idiotic choices, I understand that when like he said that Gordon was at the wrong platform and Emily was going to fast in the Knapford scene, I understand that he was just scared
This also feels like that scene in Encanto where Alma accuses Mirabel for being the cause of the family’s misfortunes and got really mad at her when she defended Bruno, leading to them having quite the heated argument. Imagine if people were hating Alma similar to how these people hate Topham.
Well if you ask, Mirabel and Abuela we’re in both the rights and the wrong, in my opinion
@@MSCPictures64 same goes to Thomas and Topham in this movie, and Thomas and the narrow gauge engines in Blue Mountain Mystery, at least in my opinion.
Tbh if you also take into account the whole season 19-legend timeline which you touched on previously. Look at how much Topham had to deal with in terms of running a railway. Guys bound to be stressed. New branchline, new Engines, engines being away or under repair and yes while majority of things are fixed prior to legend he sees something else going wrong and he's rightly "ugh now what!?" And not only do we see Topham struggle with the stress of the railway but we also see him humiliate himself quite a bit in season 19. I know that's not a new thing and in season 20 and beyond he does become the butt of the joke again however after being humiliated a few times and someone challenges your authority you bite back. Plus not only did Thomas mess up in Whose Geffory, he did in serveal episodes throughout season 19. Reds vs Blues, The other side of the mountain, helping Hiro, so really it's not just the three incidents in legend and the Geffory one, it's all those too
Fantastic video man!
Great new video Adam.
Sorry about your job by the way, i just saw the full thing there
Hope things lift up soon! ❤
A thing I feel that should have been added in case 2 is how damaged Thomas was as well, Topham is seeing his #1 in thee worst state he’s ever been, and even when Thomas is damaged he seemingly is still blaming others. Rewatching the scene Thomas quite literally had no time for anyone to tell him how dangerous the place was, he just got there and tried to prove himself as quick as possible. Without thinking whatsoever if he should be doing what he should be doing. And the workmen clearly were shouting at him as soon as they realized he had freshly arrived. So for Topham to hear that Thomas went from causing an accident to right away being *in* an accident that could’ve ended so much worse for him, just to have Thomas still not admit that he had a role to play in it. Yeah it makes it more than justified, does that make the ending scene not feel forced, no ill be honest Controller feels like a random bystander there. Maybe seeing him talk to Ryan would’ve made it better, or him saying “Thank you for owning up to it, this time i can see that this was not your fault” (mind you the tnt was still his fault, regardless if he fixed it as material was lost)
As someone who hates this film, I want to say that its nice to see a comments section that doesn't treat me like an idiot for once. So while I may not agree with the consensus, I just want to say thank you to everyone for being actual human beings for once.
Wait, why do you hate the film?
@@extrahistory8956 A variety of reasons, but chiefly:
1. Thomas being so out of character its painful to watch,
2. The dynamite scene. From start to finish, this scene is so stupid it ruined the movie when I first saw it.
3. Toxic fans who treat anyone who thinks Thomas was treated unfairly like they're idiots and won't shut up. And trust me, I've seen a lot.
@@darkknight5541 Those are your reasons? Right, I dunno if you are just plain stupid or if you are a literal 8-year old
@@ThomasTheTankEngineNWRNo.1 Wow, thanks so much for proving my point! Seriously, do you people think talking down to me is going to make me agree with you?
@@ThomasTheTankEngineNWRNo.1 Here's a better idea: You leave me alone, and I'll leave you alone, because I am not getting into this debate again.
For his rage about the dynamite, we’d obviously expect this to happen in “regular show” with benson and M&R
This is why I rarely if ever watched any reviews on movies I have a positive opinion on... I don't want my rewatches of it to be ruined because people can't stop complaining.
This fandom is so dramatic, I just can't sometimes 😑
Ngl i agree sometimes
the fact thomas never once thought of leaving Sodor through out the movie is amazing
That’s how kids on deviantart predict him lmao. They always predict Thomas as this salty winning kid who blames others for his mistakes and immediately wants too leave his entire life behind after something bad happens that he did.
@@DuckTheGWREngine8 You mean "depict"?
@@worthybutter2004 yeah lol
@@DuckTheGWREngine8it’s because they clearly don’t understand what Thomas is actually like.
As someone whose parents were teachers, I can understand why Sir Topham is so angry at Thomas. He’s annoyed by Thomas and is tired of his antics. Both I and my parents had to deal with a similar thing with their students. In Topham’s eyes, Thomas is causing trouble and not taking accountability, which is exactly what happened constantly with my parents’ students.
The case of The TTTE Fandom v. Sir Topham Hatt
In my opinion, Topham was reasonably angry the first and second time, though he should have listened to Thomas about the ship. The third time, he misunderstood and is in the wrong. Imagine watching your employee, who is already on thin ice, throw a bunch of supplies away while chasing the intern. You would be understandably furious, but I think it would have been better if he had asked what happened, rather than just yell. Although, indirectly, it is Thomas’ fault the dynamite ignited. I rule that Topham is a flawed character, but was mostly correct in his punishments. His punishment shall be excessive comic relief for the rest of his existence.
To be honest this film is taking place when people were more straightforward and more honest and didn't care for your feelings like at all so The Fat Controller was just how a boss acts in the 60's or 70's
During the knapford scene, he was 100% justified. At the cavern, yes he had a right to call Thomas out but Thomas should've been like "However while I was down there, I found a pirate ship!". At first Topham didn't believe him but when Rocky pulled put the ship, Topham could've been like "Holy Ship! Thomas DID find a pirate ship! But here's the scene that NEEDED a rewrite.
After the dynamite explosion, Ryan sees Fatty McHatty coming and quickly says "Sir! Thomas saved us!!" and would explain what happened. Thomas however would be like "No sir! It's my fault! I forgot about the bad coal and thus forgot to warn Ryan before it was too late!". As Thomas prepares for verbal impact, Topham calmly but very firmly says "I see. Well the important thing right now is that you managed to dispose of the dynamite before anyone got hurt. I appreciate you owning up. I shall order more dynamite first thing tomorrow. In the meantime, Thomas? Take the rubble away, and everyone else, finish what you can for today. That is all." and he leaves to order more dynamite. Thomas would be left confused as to why he wasn't scolded this time, but would also feel awful that Ryan almost went up in flames because of him and feels that that maybe Ryan should replace him. Then after he cuts ties with Sailor John, Thomas takes the rubble away, but on his way back, he sees Knapford and is reminded of the accident be caused and his heart sank. The Fat Controller sees and the two begin to talk things over, and Thomas applogizes for all the trouble he caused. The Fat Controller forgives him and explains why he didn't scold Thomas for the dynamite incident, was because Thomas quickly spoke up and admitted it WAS his fault which was something he didn't do the previous two incidents. And he applogizes for initially not believing him about the pirate ship. Then when Thomas tells him about Sailor John, the Fat Controller tells Thomas to stay at Knapford to keep watch for when Sailor John arrives. And the film plays out from there. BOOM!! Problem solved.
I personally prefer the version we got since it fits both their characters better in the context of what happened in this movie. Can we agree to disagree?
@@joshuaW5621 If you like it that's fine. I personally can't stand how BOTH Thomas and Topham are written in this. Topham being this was really isn't new as it's been a constant since Series 5 and only AFTER this special did this side of Topham finally bite the dust. But more so can't stand Thomas in this special.
@@supermariof0521 that’s fine with me. I respect your opinion dude.
Now, your version is MUCH better!👍
@@stuartbarclay7940 Thanks. Any highlights?
I do love him at the end where he puts things right.
A little bit of money for a cool guy 😀
I am actually somewhere in the middle. I love the film for the animation, the beautiful music played by an actual orchestra, the fact that Eddie Redmayne and John Hurt were in the film and the moral to never overlook anyone, especially if they’re big or small. But, I hate it when the Fat Controller has become a big, mean boss who doesn’t listen to Thomas, especially when Thomas was trying to explain the truth. That scene alone when Thomas was saving Ryan with the dynamite, ending with the Fat Controller being outrageously angry at him, that makes me mad so much. To quote the song, Thomas we love you, “The Fat Controller scolds him, but loves him just the same”. I do not see any of that between Thomas and the Fat Controller at all, until the ending. I’m glad they changed The Fat Controller into a more comedic personality, and showing a bit of sympathy for the engines in the later seasons. But, that’s just my opinion of it all.
0:56
Has anyone else ever noticed this set is just a redressing of the 2 lane track from Ulfstead castle to the mine?
You did bring up lot of good points there about Topham in the film, and I’ll say he was in the right as Thomas mess up a few times and he tried to blame others instead of admitting his mistake.
Honestly in my opinion Thomas may be a kids show but it can also have some parts that younger audiences can relate in the scene like how Thomas was treated differently in the movie, and bc my brother loved this movie I also kinda enjoyed some relatable scenes how I can feel sometimes (even though I don’t watch Thomas at all LOL) but that’s just my personal experiences on how I can feel sometimes..
whats the music for this?
I never saw a problem with how Sir Hatt handled the situation with Thomas when I watched the movie the first time, so this was an interesting video to come across.
The first time I watched the movie, I was literally thinking "boy who cried Wolf" as the situations kept escalating.
Even when Thomas saved Ryan from the explosives, I was thinking "this wouldn't have happened if you'd warned Ryan about the bad coal".
But to be fair, I've never been able to associate myself with Thomas, or view the situation through his eyes.
Because from the HiT Era onwards, Thomas didn't really feel like a defined character anymore.
His personality was always getting tweaked and altered to align with the needs for the narrative.
There were lots of stories that would have been suited for other characters, like "Diesel & the Ducklings" really should have used Duck, but no, the show is called ""Thomas" & Friends" so we have to fit him into this story instead.
He was so overused and constantly changing that he felt like nothing more than a hollowed out plot device. He should have been renamed "Thomas the Plot Engine".
Well to be fair though I think the reason why the Tophom hater’s Started to hate him and Gordon was they are remembering how the narrow gauge engines acted in BMM
Topham was absolutely damn right to be mad at Thomas because Thomas was an unlikeable cheeky prick throughout the whole movie and he tried to blame on others like twice on his first two mistakes and even though the accident wasn’t entirely his fault (I think), he didn’t even warned Ryan about the bad coal and such. So, in this case, Topham was definitely 100% in the right for scolding on Thomas. Yes, come attack me Deviantart because y’all haven’t seen Lost Treasure in y’all’s life!
The title for case 1 "the case against topham" sounds like a title for a thomas fan film to me,
I hope someone will use the title for a fan film one day
Two wrongs don’t make it right, also I apologise for the inconvenience outside CZcams regarding the carpentry situation.
1:36 I've always wanted Pheonix Wright to come to Sodor
This is the first time I’ve ever heard a for argument and all of it is so compelling. It‘s as if maybe the fandom can stick to their guns for too long.
Nope, I think he was right. honestly for me I think the portrayal of Sir Topham Hatt in this Movie was the best portrayal of him in the CGI Series.
He really felt like the Classic Series Controller of the Railway.
It’s nice that you see both sides. Yes your right Sir Topham Hatt could’ve let Thomas explain, but since Thomas kept others for something that was his fault, he thought he was doing it again and yes good point about Who’s Geoffrey, so why should he believe him. Even in the dynamite scene he was completely justified in scolding Thomas. It was still technically Thomas’s fault for tricking Ryan into getting bad coal which caused the dynamite to go on fire. From his perspective he saw Thomas chasing Ryan with dynamite so he thought Thomas was messing around again. So at that point he just completely lost his patience. Again he rightly thought Thomas was crying wolf again. It can teach kids the consequences of lying.
These kids bashing Topham will never understand because they’re not real Thomas fans.
@@joshuaW5621 Yeah. They are entitled to there opinion.
Honestly, if Thomas had just owned up to his mistakes, then maybe Sir Topham Hatt wouldn’t be so upset with him and people would stop thinking he was in the wrong the whole time.
The More I Watch SLOTLT,the More It Becomes Apparent That the Main Factor Of the Movie Isn't Just Thomas Causing Accidents So the Plot Can Happen,It's Sir Topham Hatt Refusing To Listen So the Plot Can Happen.
STH had every right to be angry at Thomas because every accident in the movie was Thomas’ fault. And Thomas wasn’t taking accountability for his actions. So his anger is very justifiable here.
Honestly, its just a thing in the working life, you mess up it’s YOUR responsibility, Thomas in this case works for Topham and Topham is trying to get this new railway build but with the accidents that all involve Thomas is creating a delay and slowing the process, I think we’ve all been there, when you have a deadline and the more things delay you, the more time runs out and the more frustrated you get, for Topham the it’s understandable why, could he have let Thomas explain his reasons in the 2&3 definitely, but in the end, Thomas still messed up and there’s always consequences and your always punished for them
When I first watch slotlt, it is amazing and surprise that the fat Controller finally snap at Thomas. This is finally the fat controller get his stand as controller of the Railway. The knapford is definitely Thomas goes too far and learn taking his own responsibility throughout, doing the right thing and a three strike formula done right. After the fat controller show comic too much at that time, it is the time he show his stand as controller and what is rare to see it. And definitely Thomas seem too much cheeky side seem to stop after that and learn to own responsibility.
My opinion
I literally see both of these at the same time, although I do feel sorry for Thomas that also doesn't mean he's off the hook immediately after he screwed up a couple of times when STH get on to him.
I’d say Topham should’ve given Thomas a chance to explain rather than just jumping to conclusions and scolding him. Also, I’m sorry you lost your job. I hope you’re doing well and that everything will alright for you.
True, but you still can’t really blame him anyway given the other two incidents.
0:02 “THOMAS THE TANK ENGINE!!!!!!!!!!”
I was fired from no reason before from a movie for using ai scripts but in reality I’m smart and when they made fake pictures of me using it
I’m sorry you got fired for that. That must really suck, especially considering some studios are using AI in their movies.
@@joshuaW5621 yeah and plus I was just really smart but they didn’t care it’s not my fault I’m smart
@@joshuaW5621good thing I’m currently working on a show I created tho also the ppl who fired me also accused me of being a pedofile too u can check my posts they made fake pictures of me
Sodor’s Legend Of The Lost Treasure is the best movie ever. He was right to be so furious with Thomas. I understand why he got mad about the express incident because he was cheeky and I understand about falling down the cavern because the men were trying to flag him down. He didn’t hear it. So when Thomas saved everyone from the burning dynamite from that incident it was Thomas’s fault because he didn’t warn Ryan about the bad coal and that image of Thomas shunting the trucks towards Ryan looked like he was trying to get rid of Ryan. I know people hate how angry Sir Topham Hatt was at the dynamite scene but I would be angry to if I were him.
Thank you. Even the Unlucky Tug has said this.
He’s right
I agree with everything he said.
Sorry to hear that you got fired for no reason And I think the fat controller is innocent❤
Thank you for reading my comment, Adam that means the world to me to be noticed😊❤
I think he should have told Thomas to be honest at the station and gone from there like in the episode but I agree he was right
Would love to hear your argument for the narrow gauge engines in BMM…I still think they could have been angry but gave Thomas a chance to explain himself
I never liked this film because of how both The Fat Controller and Thomas were characterised, coming off of Tale of the Brave where they both were mature enough to get on with what they’d do with themselves. I would have been a lot less bitter towards it if the conflict was between James and The Fat Controller and they’d both be butting heads, with James’ reasoning for starting it being because of him being sick of seeing the engines being blamed for accidents that would be out of their control, and The Fat Controller’s reactions to the accidents caused being the same as before and it coming to a boiling point the third time it happens as James would shout back at him, pointing out everything that’s wrong with him and unintentionally bringing his size into it and insulting him in the process.
For me, it never really felt right to have the conflict be about Thomas learning to own up to his mistakes because Tale of the Brave already acknowledged his development in being mature while it showed James letting his ego get the better of him. They could have still done the treasure plot-line with Thomas and have the same story beats, but include James in it to take advantage of it and prove to The Fat Controller that he’s more than someone who whinges. Hell maybe even include Percy in it to add more to him proving how brave he is.
Now, that would have made the film so much better.
@@stuartbarclay7940 And the chase at the end could've been with James and The Fat Controller working together and burying the hatchet with both of them learning a lesson about their temper in the work place.
@@buzzytrombone4353 Yes! Yes! Even better!😃
Here’s my Answer: Yes, he is obviously right, Because apparently Thomas went to Knapford, than he called Gordon lazy and than he just Push the Coaches, Second he was Trying to put the blame on Gordon, Emily and Toby, third he was basically being a Showoff and he pushed the Flatbeds of Rails and Sleepers, than he thought the Workmen were cheering at Him, Fourth he saw Ryan getting proud by Topham and He got jealous of Him, Just like he was Jealous of Stanley in The Great Discovery, Fourth he did not Warn Ryan about the Bad Coal, And he just tricked him by getting him into the bad coal and Last in the end, Topham forgives him for Stopping Sailor John
Cry about it Haters!
I personally think that the fat controller is at his best in lost treasure because he was just made fun of in the show
While I wasn't a fan of topham in the film. I can definitely understand why he was pissed.
0:47 So some random comment with many typos that I made two years which I completely forgot about was included in this.
But if I'm being honest, I think the dynamic that Thomas and the Fat Controller had in the special really shows how good of a writer Brenner is. He was able to write this dynamic in a way where people can interpret it differently. Neither interpretation is incorrect, which probably makes Lost Treasure Brenner's best writing contribution to Thomas
Don’t worry about it. I know a typo when I see one. Also congratulations for appearing in this video in some way.
Thomas the first time with the coaches caused them to derail and thonas tried to blame emily which made sir topham hatt annoyed, thensecond time thomas didn't pay attention to the workmen shiutingntonhim to stop/thought the workmen were cheering him and he crash into barriers which caused him to cross over a section of track that caved in which made sir topham hatt annoyed annoyed again, and the third time he only saw Thomas chasing Ryan with a train of dynamite. By this point he had enough. Three strikes and you are out. Three chances waisted.
hi i love your vidios
This is a fantastic video! I love that you look at both sides of the argument. It really can give the viewer an understanding of both sides. I certainly do understand both sides. Personally, I think both Thomas and Topham are in the wrong. I agree what Thomas does is wrong, but I struggle to condone Topham.
*Express Incident*
While it is true Thomas did cause the accident becuase he was the one who chose to retaliate against Gordon becuase of name-calling and did not take responsibility for it whatsoever, Topham just tells Thomas it was him who caused the accident and that’s it. He doesn’t tell Thomas why it’s his fault, why what he did was wrong, and why he should have just ignored Gordon. Nor does Topham try to make Thomas tell the truth. Also, like you say in this video, how would you feel if you got provoked by someone and you got all of the blame while the provoker got off Scot free (True, Thomas shouldn’t have called Gordon lazy, but Gordon could have fetched his coaches himself. The whole ‘Tender Engines don’t shunt’ thing was something he learned to stop back in Season 1! 31 years prior! Nineteen seasons ago!)?! Topham does say in Blue Mountain Mystery it’s important to learn the full story, and in Sodor’s Legend of The Lost Treasure, he does a complete 180 on that lesson! And let’s face it. No one likes character regression when it just happens out of the blue.
*Cavern Incident*
Once again, Thomas isn’t blameless. Yes, he did lie to Mike, Rex and Bert, which lead to them unintentionally boosting his ego. Yes, Thomas shouldn’t have taken those supplies without asking and should have at the very least tried to listen the workmen’s warning, but I struggle to condone Topham here again. He makes pretty much the same mistakes he does in the Express Incident, so I’ll say nothing else here.
*Dynamite Incident*
Yes, Thomas tricked Ryan into taking on bad coal. That was wrong, but Topham still goes too far here. He outright accuses Thomas of trying to murder Ryan (that’s apparently what he thinks is happening)! I’m sorry, but no. That’s too far. Thomas isn’t the nicest engine, but never, would he ever outright try to murder someone, even someone he doesn’t like! Why on earth would Topham think such a thing?! Topham should know by now Thomas would never murder anyone! Now, granted, him learning the full truth wouldn’t have changed much due to Thomas tricking Ryan into taking on the bad coal, but still, what Topham does could be framing, which is a crime! So yeah, Topham framing Thomas of attempted murder just crosses the line here. How would you feel if you got framed for a crime you never committed, or never would commit?!
So yeah. In conclusion, I think the movie treats Topham like a saint when he’s not. It’s understandable why he reacts the way he does (and even more so if the Who’s Geoffrey theory is true), but not justified. I feel both he and Thomas should have had to confront their mistakes. Keep Thomas confronting his mistakes, absolutely, but I feel Topham should have had to do the same (and Gordon too). Maybe we could have a scene where Thomas, Gordon and Topham all come to understand each other. I’ve done a rewrite on my Deviantart account called “My Sodor’s Legend of The Lost Treasure Rewrite” to address these issues I have with Sodor’s Legend of The Lost Treasure, as well as some others (I would link it, but CZcams comments won’t allow me to link other website URLS).
But don’t get me wrong. This is all just my opinion. You can disagree with me all you want. You can keep on defending Topham all you want. I respect your opinion, and you know what they say. Let’s agree to disagree. And I completely understand why you defend Topham, and the same goes to all the other Topham defenders. I may not defend him myself, but to those that do, I won’t say you are wrong to. Just please go about your opinion respectfully, like you did here, Thomas Theorist. Same goes to the Topham haters.
To quote Sir Ringo Starr “Peace and Love”.
Just because tender engines shouldn't be against shunting doesn't mean they should always shunt. They had to shunt themselves in S1 because there weren't any engines that could do it for them, but it is harder for them to shunt due to their size. Even in S1 they were relieved from shunting after Percy arrived. SLOTLT makes it clear shunting is Thomas' job, so you can't blame Gordon for not doing Thomas' job.
I believe Topham did know the full story of the first accident because it happened at morning and the scene where he punishes Thomas takes place some time later as the sky is different. Not sure what else Topham would be doing in all that time if not learning what happened.
@@Kukaak I'm sorry, but I disagree with you on the tender engines shunting thing. Thomas has a branch line to run. That's his job, not shunting at Knapford. As for the Topham thing, I disagree on that too because I'm not sure how he would know the full story since it's never stated in the movie. But of course, this is just my opinion. You can keep on thinking what you think. I respect your opinion.
@@everythingproductions2004 Thomas got a branchline, yes, but that was in S1, eighteen seasons ago, and since then it became regular for him to do other jobs like all the "special specials" in the HiT era or the Main Line Local. Since he's seen shunting at Knapford in other episodes from this era, it's clear that it became one of his other jobs (and Thomas himself says in SLOTLT that it's his job). It's also not depicted as his main job, it's said that he only shunts Gordon's express in the morning and then he goes on his branchline, I think that's reasonable. Whether you think Thomas should shunt or not is irrelevant because it's not a discussion about SLOTLT, it's about how the TVS is written about its lack of consistency
@@Kukaak Fair enough. I think we can just blame the TVS' inconsistencies for this.
No wonder the fat controller think Thomas was trying to kill Ryan.
3:03 Thank you! That’s exactly why I think Topham was too harsh on Thomas in this film.
Me too!
🤦
@@joshuaW5621 What do you mean facepalm emoji? Topham should’ve listened to what Thomas had to say regardless of how angry he was with him and how bullshit Thomas’ excuses were. Thomas knew the full context of the dynamite incident, but The Fat Controller didn’t and should’ve listened to Thomas then. If I were Thomas, I would’ve resorted to brave insubordination at that moment, stood up to The Fat Controller, and refused to go to my shed.
@trainlover16 Same here. And if I was Thomas, I would leave the island and don't come back.
@@stuartbarclay7940 Topham would probably kick me off the railway anyway if I spoke to him like that so…