2:30 - the "GARM?" question is unlocked if you find Olav's schematics at GARM GARM schematic is found here: czcams.com/video/LlctrLHk0mM/video.html TREVOR-SARIF INDUSTRIES
This is the hardest conversation to deal with and accept in Mankind Divided. Sarif is very respectful with what information he discloses, but when you realise though... It hits like a freight train.
@@JustinStanley82 well now how were the Men/Women in Black ever made? hmmm... and then comes "A Criminal Past"... You get to take a drug twice? You can use the experimental Augs even though timewise it shouldn't be possible? And You choose to tell what happened to Mejia even if it didn't happen that way? Who doesn't love to slap "the rapist" and her controlfreak masters at the end ey?
Yeah, Deus Ex MD really has one of the best graphics out there. The only complain I have is the skin. There is not enough sub-surface scattering happening, so the skin feels a bit dull. Also the character faces could have been a bit better.
@@gabrieleomaggio1461 2nd part is literally has nothing to do with the game but with your system. I've played this game on ultra and didn't have a single framerate issue
They actually didn't "get rid of him" completely - the voice actor "Stephen Shellen" believes he is being tracked by the CIA - he also continuously posts about conspiracy theories. SOME of the reports claim that he did not return because of his feeling paranoid about being stalked at the time of recording. Not sure what the whole truth was, but I do think that he was probably a fair bit of trouble to get in the studio and, as a result, probably had to go with someone to keep the project on time.
The Show with Neal thats odd, I heard that he posted some questionable content and that they lowered his pay because of it. Or I may be mashing two rumors together at this point. It was a while back when I read about it. If he’s all wrapped up in conspiracy theories then he truly is the best candidate for Sarif lol
Yeah I remember I had some problems with the argument of whether cloning was even really ready yet between HR and MD. At least for a clone to be 'this' fully functioning Jensen. But maybe they made a copy of him (the one in the Vault) that isn't ready or functioning, but would be a precursor to how they made the Denton brothers.
@@iurycabeleira7990 What doesn't make sense is how a guy was to survive and entire ocean, not to mention the facility collapsing on his head, and then float for a week in a water that was close to 0 celsius, apart from drowning ? He was dead as fuck. Probably didn't even resemble himself.
@@fonfa234 he's not just a guy though, he's mostly augment at that point. What he's got left that's actually human is... His brain, parts of his lungs, his spine or at least part of it. None of his sensory organs are original, probably not even his skin considering that it's dermal plating, and even his brain has many augments.
@@isaac13d Still I don't think it was possible for him to survive.. noo, If not the cold and the water, than the simple fact of Panchea collapsing would bury him beneath the ocean forever.
Sarif’s reaction at 3:05 to Adam’s inference sells the theory to me. Can’t look Adam in the eye, clearly uncomfortable and choosing his words carefully, like he has ideas eating at him that he’s forcing himself not to share and possibly denying. Very spooky, not at all like the corporate Santa Claus Sarif from HR. I wish I had picked up on more of this stuff my first playthrough.
I agree with the main sentiment expressed in the comments: the game heavily hints at Adam Jensen being a clone of the original Adam who died at Panchea, but the theory has complicated plot holes in it, particularly the fact that cloning isn't hinted to be so easy in this timeframe of the game. If the Illuminati secretly had super-advanced technology allowing them to clone people, it would be too convoluted for them to just limit themselves to use it specifically for Jensen, and in such a hasty way that they didn't even include Sarif serial numbers for their augs.
pretty sure there was something in the theory that helps debunk it, but something related to adam's no reliance on neuropozyne could have something to do it, considering how op that st at is that the orchid doesn't kill him who knows.
Well him surviving orchid would make sense if he was genetically modified with a complete version of the orchid compound, the orchid was made as a way to stop peoples bodies from rejecting augs.
I reckon when they installed the titan augs they reversed engineered the original augs on David and made new ones that where compatible with the titan ones. Also they used mind control to make Adam more complaint and be a unknowing mole into the Juggernaut Collection to try and take out Janus.
Its hard to figure out exactly what happened because they had no cloning ability within the lore during that time and even more so they can't flash clone people. The other thing is they can't use that mind transfering technology they were doing with that crazy women because it requires the brain to be active in order for it to work, so if Jensen was dead how are they going to transfer something from a dead brain. Which leaves only some sort of mind control techniques since Jensen really wants to find/meet the leader of the Jaggernaught collective which the illuminati are also after. The only thing that is a bit confusing is the body of Jensen within the vault and nobody can really explain that, whether it was a fake body made up that may have been used in an illuminati scheme but didn't get used is still not explained. Really though I think this has to be the same Adam Jensen as human revolution and the whole argument about adam jensen 2.0 will be in reference to the new augmentations that he got.
there’s been rumours the game was cut short a bit and I think most positive reviews agree in ends kinda abruptly - the consensus seemed to be a Mankind Divided Part II (a full sequel) was planed... but then S-E decided they should make The Avengers instead :(
I'm 7 years late but I recently replaying all 3 main games. JC and Adam are genetically engineered lifeforms born from test tubes. Their parents were actually scientists/ actors. There could be like 20 Adam Jensens for all we know. Same thing with the Dentons.
"Are you suggesting all my augs are new? Even the ones you gave me?" That actually makes sense, considering Jensen's augs look pretty different to how they did in Human Revolution. Also, where do you find the schematics in GARM?
Here after finding out Embracer Group cancelled the next Deus Ex game and laid off a number of developers at Eidos Montreal. It’s so fucking heartbreaking to see people constantly losing their jobs in the video game industry as a result of corporate greed.
God MD could have been perfect, it's still among the most beautiful looking games made, gameplay is fantastic, story is good, the only thing is that it needed to be like twice as long.
Sarif definitely had conclusion he purposefully didn't tell Adam because his conculsions implied that Adam, or at least this Adam, was compromised, even if "remarquably stable".
To this day, the atmosphere alongside the background music of Adam's apartment is unmatched in games of these category. Cp 2077 safe room feels so dull. Also look at those rain droplets on Adam. And yes! The droplet effects are present on every guns too. Man pre COVID games were made with passion rather than greed and recycling.
This amazing game didn't get a conclusion because Avengers needed to be made..... thankfully the IP isn't held by Square Enix anymore so we might get a sequel one day
It is rumored to be in early development, a full next gen deus ex game… I can’t think of any game more exciting than that lol. Hope it comes sooner than we think, and follows this story of Adam jenson.
@@Tahan_117 I seriously hope they don't try to reboot it into another character or something, like Paul or JC. I think I speak for pretty much the entire fanbase when I say I wanna see Jensen's story concluded. There's just too many unsolved plot points which border on cliffhangers in MD.
@@xIcarus227 there’s a slight chance that this might happen because, to my knowledge, the IP was recently acquired by a new studio (or publisher, I’m not exactly sure), so maybe they’ll make their own continuity, but Adam Jensen has way too many unexplored stories and potential, I hope they at least continue with the character.
1)Jensen chances of surviving the destruction of Panchaea and being in the freezing ocean for a week are low, winning the lottery 11 times in a row while doing a back flip , getting stuck by lightning while at it and landing on your feet low. (even with his extreme augmentation) 2)his memory has a lot of gaps 3) there is the entire serial killer story line quest about implementing memories (project that had ~2 decades to evolve) 4) Sarif makes it plainly obvious that his augments are not the one he gave "Adam Jensen" (he does not state I gave YOU , he states the implants he gave Adam Jensen) and if you have not figured out by what he is saying that said augments are NOT the original ones he gave you (just copies , remember TY bought out sarif and all its tech) , then you may wish to replay the game. 5) the body in versa life vault is clearly identical to you , it can only mean 2 things : 1) it is a clone of you , 2) you are the clone of the original Adam, read the points above and it is easy to see what the truth is.
Okay, now hear me out. What if the entirety of "The missing link" is just a memory inserted into Adam's brain and it was the clone who did everything after being launched from the dock what Adam blew up until the destruction of Panchea?
@@Heretus Unlikely? Theres no pod when you’re being interrogated. You just straight up jump to the torture scene. No finding out, no going out of it… makes sense right ?
Okay, just finished The Black Light for the second time (my memory bad), and the reason WHY Jensen survived in the ocean (even though he shouldn't have), is because of his blood. What does that mean I'm not certain. His memory has alot of gaps because he was in a coma for a yearish. The serial killer thing was an experiment made by Tai Yong Medical, and was scratched after Myška went rogue. TY didn't take all of it's tech, for example they didn't even touch the Typhoon, the Illuminati tried taking it, but failed and everything Sarif ever made is either destroyed or taken by TY... but it's more than obvious Jensen's augs are not Sarif's but copies... That perhaps happened in the year gap.
I think its clear - we need a final chapter, a big one. So that Adam's story can be brought to a satisfactory conclusion for the fans!! Given time, I think that will happen.
You know this does bring a point to the fore, Sarif must be one of, if not THE most legitimately decent Cyberpunk CEOs ever depicted. He's legitimately more focused on improving the world than making money, treats his employees well, owns up to mistakes when he's called on them, goes out of his way to help his people (even in cases like this where Adam is no longer his employee) and on Panchea his first instinct on seeing Adam was to start trying to get the wounded evacuated, rather than immediately trying to get himself out.
Many people in both sides of the clone theory misinterpret Sarif's lines about the serial numbers. Listen to the context. He is not saying "your augs have no serial numbers" or "you have different augs than I installed." He is saying "the john doe story does not hold up." Adam isn't understanding, and he reiterates it. "The augs I put in adam jensen had serial numbers" is like saying "they have your fingerprints on file; why would they be unable to ID you if you have your fingers?" ergo the john doe thing is and obvious lie and it is unexplained why he wouldn't be on the recovery lists. This isn't shooting down the clone theory, (which I believe is settled by the body in the veralife vault with the asset name 'jenson body in veralife vault') it's merely clarifying a point that creates a lot of pointless confusion on both sides.
finally someone who thinks for at least 5 minutes. I can't stand all those people who jump to conclusion just because of a few words and a placeholder in versalife. There is no evidence, there is no confirmation, it was not made canon by the devs so this whole clone theory is so pointless.
Also, the Versalife vault body face thing could be a hint that Adam is just being schizoid about his origin. I know i would be pretty fucked up if forced to live what Jensen went trough.
which means Adam's escape from the Alaska facility was planned at some point considering they wanted him to find Janus they thawed Adam out so to speak and let him do his "easy escape"
@@LakituKoopa It's not "just a placeholder". If it's just a random body, why make it look like Adam. And why name the file "Jenson body in Versalife vault". The clone theory is so obvious it's not even funny. Even the design of the start screen hints at it, with the two faces of two Adams facing each other
"You augmentations had serial numbers, or at least the ones I had installed into Adam Jensen did." I would have never picked up on what he was saying if it weren't in the dialogue options. When I first heard this I thought ht was just referring to the the secret augs.
For anyone who is saying he isn't a clone, I didn't believe he was until I read the black light novel. Beth DuClaire said she pulled Jensen out of Panchea. But whenever the "black light" project is mentioned, its obvious that the "dead man" is Jensen.
That is what the writers want you to think and you might be fooled. I think is possible Adam Jensen is a clone of this "dead man" featured in "Black Light" project and he actually survived Panchea.
Check out my film, The Spark. I wrote and directed it and it deals with cloning. I played Sarif in HR. Think you'll like the film. vimeo.com/ondemand/thespark?fbclid=IwAR0EAyNALK5-8m3QMM17M9r0dOKMLfu-Vs81xDQogdnI3Q446PY9kzsF2UY
@@SomeGuy1234X yeah it's possible that there's some kind of tracking beacon or noise recording chip inside this supposed clone. It would make sense that if Sariff suspects something like that, he would try to be cautious with what he says to Adam.
Anyone new to this clone theory, here is what you have to remember. It is very likely that Adam Jensen in MD is a clone, but it is also the original Adam Jensen as his whole memory was transplanted into the new clone. Of course, his memory has been tempered a bit but it is still the original Adam continuing his life in a new body.
That's not how any of that works. He's still 100% a copy. You scanned the brain of the dead Adam, copying the data (memories) from his brain, then "pasted" this data to the brain of the fresh clone. You copied it. Cloning is not a viable means of extending one's life. I'm a transhumanist and this is why I chose cryonics over mind-uploading
@@spacejunk2186 Based on the books and assets found in the game it's likely that he is a clone. In first Deus Ex Denton became a Machine God. It was a cyberpunk ending, original character died and became something else. Writers of Human Revolution also wanted this type of ending. For them he was supposed to die in the final crash on that game. But popularity of Jensen was quite big so they were forced to bring him back. But they brought him while keeping their original purpose intact. Also, Adam Jensen is named Adam because he was the father of all artificial life form in Deus Ex. His cells could have been easily used to make clone.
@@MentalParadox For me memorie are the core of what a person is. If ideals and memories are retained, it's still that person, just in another body. Of course you are right to have your opinion. All in all, both are means to go beyond Humans.
The Sarif calls after learning about the likely canon clone theory is kinda creepy. He knows 100% that this Jensen is just a clone with different augs provided by Page
Continuity is preserved - the neural data of Adam Jensen was pulled from his original body, and implanted into the "new" Jensen. So yes, Adam Jensen died. But then he got to return.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I am also saying how would you know? And more interestingly, and haunting for the game, how would Adam know the difference?
Hopefully in my lifetime I get to see Adam Jensen’s story conclude in the next game, with him finding closure with what REALLY happened to him in Panchea.
Last year it was reported that they're working on a new entry under their new publisher. When the game could be finished and released by though, I don't know.
There isn't a good enough reason to have the "Watcher" watch Jensen if all they did was add a few non-active augmentations that couldn't even be turned on without killing him. The Psychologist displays actual human emotion when talking to Jensen, but calls him coldly "the subject" when in the council chambers, suggesting she definitely sees him simply as a test subject that is not actually human.
Of course there is a reason. Delara Auzenne can' keep tabs on Adam all the time without compromising her cover, so it naturally makes sense to have an additional set of eyes on him where possible when he's not inside TF-29. It also means the Illuminati can gauge potentially how close they are to him getting close to Janus while 'The Watcher' reports back on his movements and who he interacts with.
I know the HR apartment got sold but it'd be cool if they made a 3rd game and when Adam walked in the 'Smart Home' the AI said, Welcome home Mr. Jens... Adam... is that really you?' Sort of like Big Boss/Venom/the Boss AI from PW in MGS V. 'John... is that really you?' Would be awesome if 'Adam' became like Big Boss/Venom haha
Imagine if the original HR Jensen is ressurrected with nanotechnology like the Paul / JC Denton with complete organic limb fused with nanotechnology ( albeit the prototype version ) and the 2.0 ( MD version ) with the most advanced mechanical augmentation. It would be fun playing the 2 jensen version in the story ( as long they doesn't make the HR Jensen like the Paul Denton who only available as support character )
I know I'm three years too late, but hear me out. He walks in and the AI can't identify him, or maybe identifies him as someone else. This directly ties into him discovering he's a clone.
@@trianglemoebius Ah, so you too subscribe to the idea that MD Jensen _is_ a clone. I read a lot of people simply disregard it of hand very quickly but I don't understand why. Based on Sarif's ambiguity in the dialogue, plus the secret body at the labs, it seems like a genuine possibility, right?
@@Ancor_Vantian Exactly. I'm in the field that we'll need a third game to either confirm or deny it, but it's POSSIBLE, and therefore I cannot just dismiss it. I'm saying that, if that's their plan, it would be a neat way to point to it. I suppose we'll have to hope we get a third game to see.
I'm so conflicted on this clone thing. All evidence given in quests and such (especially the frozen torso in the locker) support him being a clone, but the whole Aug part seems to directly refute it. Unless they took all his old augs off and put them on his new body (which would probably be obvious to Adam considering it's mentioned that whoever put in the "new augs," cut a few corners) there's no way Adam wouldn't be able to tell the Augs were different. Not to mention different Augs would mean things like his infolink would be slightly different and all the old friends that hack into it throughout the game wouldn't be able to reach him. My Conclusion: Adam is a clone, but the writers are really bad at telling that part of the story.
The mere presence of new augs is a smoking gun for something else happening while Jensen was in a coma. Chances are, the actual quality effort into making Jensen 2.0 happened at VersaLife (likely involving Reed, who would know how to augment him properly) before DeBeers ordered a relocation to Switzerland, where Orlov tinkered with Jensen while installing neuroconditioners, like what Daria Myska had.
Actually no. Side quest are suggesting memory alteration thingy which is further evidenced by events from Criminal Past DLC. But I'll just copy what I gathered so far against clone theory. To start of, successful flash cloning is impossible, at least at this point in the timeline because when JC (DX1) was cloned he was born and grew up to adulthood like a normal human being (JC is born same year Mankind Divided's events take place). Illuminati having cloned Jensen way before is also heavily unlikely because everything related to Adam in White Helix Labs got burned to the ground and Illuminati had no knowledge of Adam before events of HR (there is entire side quest in HR dedicated to Illuminati's goons trying to learn more about Jensen and his past which is really baffling if they have clones of his kept in storage). Also their entire attack on Sarif HQ plan and biochip research that was the main point of HR's plot would make absolutely no sense whatsoever if they had access to every material they needed years before. Another possible argument for cloning is early Universal Constructor, possibly in facility Adam was transported to after Aug Incident as some people suggest. But that's a stretch too because making JC to be born normally, prepare artificially a specific environment for him to grow up in for you to have a loyal, dependable asset is irrational when at least 1-2 years earlier you could make a fully functioning clone that accepts augs like crazy out of thin air, implant him with memories and psychological conditioning that makes him a dependable asset nearly instantly. If it was because they needed to wait for nanoaugmentations to get into desirable state then why not create JC at that moment and implant him with fake memories rather than going in with that costly and time consuming shit of killing his parents, getting him to certain schools, monitoring him for all these years and so on? Another thing also related to UC argument is Dentonian Timeline from design documents of DX1 (www.nanoaugur.net/dx/bible/) that Eidos bases lore of their games on. It goes like this: - 2018: Paul Denton born - 2023: Paul, age 5, selected as test subject, cloned - 2028: Tests on clones show limited success; Paul's mother impregnated with J.C. - 2029: J.C. Denton born; scientists perfect embryonic incubator; additional clones grown over the next 15-20 years - 2034: Experiments begin on second generation of clones (~age 5)... If they had access to UC around 2029 then why didn't they construct Paul's clones for experimentation with it instead of the JC way of waiting years for them to grow a bit? Sounds really... stupid. People cling to DX1 plot inconsistency where various NPCs tell us that he had family, he grew up and so on and in Area51 there are cloning vats (some rooms before Page taunts Denton about his parents so...) but so far lore of Eidos DX games is consistent with Deus Ex Bible making going that route highly unlikely. Paul's birthdate is officially 2018 as in DX Bible too. But even if we go the vat-clone route, on inspection JC's statis directly states that his incept date is 2054 which is impossible as game takes place in 2052. Morpheus AI knows that JC is cloned and straight up tells him that he is 23 years old, no reason for it to lie to him about his age. If Paul and JC had memory implants like Jensen then it would be really stupid for Mj12 to include memories where they both suspected that JC was engineered organism rather than being Paul's natural brother like they intended. Another clue people grasp at is Mystery Augs side quest but we can see in aug menu that basic augs have Sarif logo on them, in Black Light when he wakes up he recognizes his augs and damage they sustained during events of HR instantly. Sarif's "bla bla in Adam Jensen did" line is nothing more than a suggestion that no one bothered to check them because they knew exactly who they are dealing with and nod that TITAN augs installed in him have no identification. Which he pretty much confirms if you ask him further about it. Other clues involve Eliza and her talk about coexistence with other versions of ourselves but since the talk was given in context of memory (current Picus Eliza has no memories, desires and urges that original one has). Better yet other side quest touches on it. Richard from Cult of Personality side quest blatantly tells lines such as "Allow me to suggest something - a version of you. A version that strips away all suspicions, free of the sinister selves we cling to along the way", "they [cultists] have found a better version of themselves..." and some other ones. In Harvester side quest Daria Myska also talks about different version of herself. It all leans more into mind alteration thing rather than cloning. In Prague there is a magic shop called Negozio di Magia in which is a fortune teller machine that after paying 250 credits says one of several lines. One of these lines is "Some version of you is perfect. You are not her". Notice the 'her' in it, it can't be clone. Add earlier paragraph of the talk about versions to it. It is kind of far-reaching speculation but if MD Adam is a fresh clone with implanted memories of original one with some bonus ones added to it then wouldn't that be strange that he is able to sense that something is not right, that some memories seem alien to him in Black Light novel and kind of in Criminal Past? If anything all memories should seem alien to him or not a single one should because all of them are implanted. So in light of all that Adam being a clone would be one of the biggest asspulls in the history of asspulls, maybe ever. Thank you for coming to my TED talk. One thing that remains is body in vault but to be honest it could be anything. Notice that it is purposefully made hard to see what the heck it really is without using 3rd party programs or glitches. But ignoring all that, the body might be failed attempt at flash cloning, it might be a decoy ready to be deployed in case Jensen's mission is compromised and Illuminati need to hijack him, some kind of lab grown 'living' material left for study (after all Jensen's medical capabilities are still valuable which Orchid and aug testing shows) while the 'donor' is on his mission to neutralize Janus. Anyway in light of what's above MD Jensen being functioning clone or the thing in vault being a functioning clone/original one is very unlikely.
It is in the style of deus ex to drop conspiracy bombs to make things more convoluted. For example, they did genetically modified animals that looked like aliens only to create them as a cover up for area 51 experiments. It is quite possible that they cloned Adam, but you play as original, and the frozen body is the actual clone.
Rick Miller was Sarif’s new voice actor, agreed he did decently but didn’t felt that Uncle David vibe Stephen Shellen did, still in video game work Rick also voiced The Dark Prince in Prince of Persia The Two Thrones and Winston Churchill in Assassins Creed Syndicate
@@LouSassol69er Problems with the syndicate/actors guild that represent him I guess, actors that are in unions tend to have a little more challenge in finding job that the ones that are not union, could be that the company representing the cast of the Deus Ex games didn’t call Stephen for Mankind Divided
Side Note the new Guardians of the Galaxy game made by Eidos Montreal will be inspired by the Deus Ex games, specially HR and MD gameplay, story/character development and game verticality
damn. imagine the sequel to this and final game connecting to the original will turn out good and answer all of the questions, and they make another game of you using Paul on his story before JC joined UNATCO with these vibes and same voice actor for paul
Since the licence is not with Square (f*ck them) I really hope they're working on Deus Ex last chapter of Jensen story (could be nice to have it link with the original game, then go for a remake of the 1st one with the art direction of HR/MD.
That's likely the plan, or at least it was at some point. I have an acquaintance who works (or has worked, I'm not sure anymore) for Eidos on DE:MD as one of the designers/artists and he told me that one of the ideas being rolled around was to finish the "Jensen trilogy", bridging the story gap between it and the original Deus Ex, and then remaking the original. But I doubt this'll happen any time soon, if ever. :/
If I remember right, it is the same actor. He even mentioned in his CZcams page back then. His voice had changed a bit or the direction for Sharif was different or something like that.
A cover-up that whole situation stunk of someone higher up cutting loose ends, classic corpo One-oh-One They know of Adam and his reputation for being very compatible with Augs, that Heist "easter egg" from that vault is the real Adam This one has implanted memories and thinks he's the real one, hence why he *believes* that he lived that life but zip nada from after Maybe we start out as MD Jensen then HR Jensen is recalled maybe twisted to serve a new purpose or it ends up going into a global epidemic of the grey death, now i'm just pulling stuff out of my ass but the idea of this being a prequel or leading to something similar is potentially interesting I'm just curious as to how Eidos is going to "do what Cyberpunk couldn't" it's so vague but specifically worded I think a Deus Ex resurgence is closer than we think
I see all this people making theories that he still is the same Jensen from HR, but can someone explain to me how he could actually survive Panchea ? It is impossibru...
@@000mjd Yeah, and a few others, the only logical explanation is that they were being evacuated while Jensen was doing his thing downstairs, or that the water didn't flood the upper levels... dunno.
crazy reply to a 3 year old comment, but Jensen's augments are said to have kept him alive, specifically his augmented heart and such (which provided the health regen in the game)
Rest in peace Adam, you never asked for this but I would do anything for a 3rd instalment of your story. I think what would’ve of happened is that Adam finds out he himself is a Clone and was made before the events of HR when the OG Adam was a regular human. OG Adam died in the events of Pangea (I cannot spell sorry) his clone was awoken by Bob Page and Co solely for the purpose for testing cloning and memory implantation. Things happen maybe the frozen guy in the original dues ex is the ultimate antagonist for Adam to overcome. Only for Adam to get so close to revealing to the public all of this and getting even closer to uncovering the full truth. Only to be killed by… Paul Denton, Adams Biological Son
Kiddo McMachine Yea you can find original jensen frozen in the versalife vault and its mention throughout the game and even by an NPC that jensen isnt the real jensen because he died in HR.
At that time I guess creating exact copies of people was very costly and they made the original Adam the way they did to probably study his development like they did Paul and JC , but there are probably also complications to cloning and memories we haven't seen yet because during MK that Adam has trouble remembering things and he will probably soon realize he isn't him from everything he has gathered and that's probably where he loses it and thats when Debeers says he is activating the sleeper cell, he is taking control of Adam. By the end of the prison DLC Adam scares the shit out of the psychologist by hinting in a way that he knows she is the enemy and he will kill her if he finds evidence so he is bound to find out he is a clone sleeper cell when its too late, so he will probably be used by bob page to form MJ12 by taking out volkard and crippling the other members. But I do agree like phantom pain I feel betrayed we weren't even playing as the actual main character.
I mean, some comments are hinging on Sarif's statement that Sarif's augs has serial numbers on them, and that if he was found in Alaska, they would've had documentations on him. And that since it'd have Sarif's serial numbers, they'd know it was Jensen. But since supposedly since they didn't find Sarif's serial number on "this" Jensen, this must be a clone. But that logic has a bunch of loopholes. For one, it must've meant that the "real" Jensen must still be submerged in water or whatever, since there's no trace of the "real" jensen anywhere. How could the body in the vault be the real jensen, when again, there's no trace of Jensen being anywhere. The next counter-argument would be that Alaska found the real Jensen, then copied him, and this resurfaced. But then, that's also faulty, because the basis for the copied Jensen is Alaska having no records... then that just means that Alaska could've found the real Jensen (this one) and then just not have any documents on him, meaning they just deleted it. And so the whole logic falls apart. As such, I think it's too far fetch atm to say that the Jensen we're playing is a clone... though there could be a cloned Jensen OUT THERE, but certainly, it's not this one. I mean, if I think about it, if this is all the illuminati's doing... there should be a consequence out there that's bad (in the scheme of things) because of this Jensen's action... if again, this was part of the illuminati's plan. However, I think it's the opposite, since it's because of this Jensen's action is what formed the Silhouette, the resistance group. So yeah, until the sequel, I think clone Jensen is kind of a stretch.
After the end of the game it's discovered that Adam is either a clone or an AI that thinks it's Adam. The specifics aren't ever made clear. My pet theory is they Adam was destined to become the AI Icarus that JC meets toward the end of the OG Deus Ex. It would make narrative and thematic sense given all the Icarus imagery through HR and MD.
So for all of you, who think Adam is a clone: He is NOT a clone. This is just a made up fan theory, which is not even confirmed by Square Enix and Eidos. The body you see at Versalife is most likely a placeholder object or some leftover of some alterations to the level or something else, happens a lot in different games. Besides, you can only see the body if you use noclip or use tricks to get the camera there, so was never supposed for the player to see that or planned by the devs. Moreover, we do not have the confirmation of the wikis as well. I can even show you how flawed this theory is by making another one for human revolution: Adam Jensen was killed in the beginning by Namir (directly to terminate patient X) and cloned by LIMB (LIMB is financed by the Illuminati and Page) with all the memories of the original Adam. So we play a clone all along because no one survives a direct headshot with a revolver. See what I did there? That is why we can´t say that Adam is a clone in MD, because everything can be made up easily. Please people, you can have your theories, but don´t declare them as canon without evidence and confirmation.
@@dagabeinator all you need to do is increase the game brightness or throw an EMP and you can see the body. Hell, you can even see it with the vision mode turned on. That's obviously the Devs wanting people to see that. And the ebook and emails on the vault laptop. What about the bridge guy who says he saw jensen in the box?
@@Back2Life Have not heard about the bridge guy, could you tell me what to search? Played through the intro of the game again the other day and you are 100% correct about the clone theory, even without the vault as evidence the game drops so many breadcrumbs that it might as well be considered official. The intro cinematic shows him face down in the ocean at panchea and in the first conversation with Sarif you find out that Jensen was like that for at least 7 days. 100% dead.
2:30 - the "GARM?" question is unlocked if you find Olav's schematics at GARM
GARM schematic is found here: czcams.com/video/LlctrLHk0mM/video.html
TREVOR-SARIF INDUSTRIES
OLD MEN
running the world
But the world left them behind long ago.
When you discover new things in this game, you don't get answers. Only more questions...
who's Olav? it's Orlov dammit
Damn, MD is so good. Almost half a decade later it still hurts.
it sure fucking does...
Somehow HR makes more senses to me though.
The good news is that Embracer Group bought out Eidos Montreal from Sqeenix. We might swe a new game announced soon.
theres hope
Embracer Group look like to bring the series back so most likely a sequel and get the old team together.
Nobody talks about how Adam's face is so well sculpted and molded
Way better than HR and damn do i have a man crush on AJ.
I'm late but you're 100% correct, and fun fact; digital sculpting is how most games create character textures.
molded?
@@zedd440 Because it's a different engine.
This game had no right to look this good for it's time period.
Thats Eidos Montreal for you. Their latest/Guardians of the Galaxy is also such a visual masterpiece
man the safehouse music is jsut the best
for sure
This is the hardest conversation to deal with and accept in Mankind Divided. Sarif is very respectful with what information he discloses, but when you realise though... It hits like a freight train.
@@JustinStanley82 It's a trippy and challenging game to play, when you know the lore. It's still a great experience. GG
@@JustinStanley82 That's it. 100%. lol We definitely need another game.
@@JustinStanley82 well now how were the Men/Women in Black ever made? hmmm...
and then comes "A Criminal Past"...
You get to take a drug twice? You can use the experimental Augs even though timewise it shouldn't be possible? And You choose to tell what happened to Mejia even if it didn't happen that way?
Who doesn't love to slap "the rapist" and her controlfreak masters at the end ey?
I find it funny how Adam basically have that world Elon musk as his dad? boss? friend?
Sadly the 3rd game was shuttered after 4 years of dev time ... @razalin
Look at the rain droplets on Adam's body, I love those graphics.
W
Yeah, Deus Ex MD really has one of the best graphics out there. The only complain I have is the skin. There is not enough sub-surface scattering happening, so the skin feels a bit dull. Also the character faces could have been a bit better.
@@kishaloyb.7937 Facial animations are a bit wonky and the framerate is also somewhat unstable sometimes, but this game is a looker for sure.
@@gabrieleomaggio1461 2nd part is literally has nothing to do with the game but with your system. I've played this game on ultra and didn't have a single framerate issue
It's too bad they got rid of the original Sarif voice actor.
Oh yeah I agree... new guy is fine but it's just not the same... I was a huuuuuge Sarif fan in HR...
My goal in life is to have his office
They actually didn't "get rid of him" completely - the voice actor "Stephen Shellen" believes he is being tracked by the CIA - he also continuously posts about conspiracy theories. SOME of the reports claim that he did not return because of his feeling paranoid about being stalked at the time of recording. Not sure what the whole truth was, but I do think that he was probably a fair bit of trouble to get in the studio and, as a result, probably had to go with someone to keep the project on time.
shit I thought it's the same actor
@@iopunderstealth Sounds perfect for a Deus Ex game then!
The Show with Neal thats odd, I heard that he posted some questionable content and that they lowered his pay because of it. Or I may be mashing two rumors together at this point. It was a while back when I read about it.
If he’s all wrapped up in conspiracy theories then he truly is the best candidate for Sarif lol
I love the all the music in this game especially the background music. The atmosphere is amazing.
End credits theme
Fucking love this game man, so much mystery
Jensen might still be Jensen, and the body in the Versalife vault is a clone they made of him after they pulled him from the water in Panchaea.
Yeah I remember I had some problems with the argument of whether cloning was even really ready yet between HR and MD. At least for a clone to be 'this' fully functioning Jensen. But maybe they made a copy of him (the one in the Vault) that isn't ready or functioning, but would be a precursor to how they made the Denton brothers.
@@TrevorPhilips that makes a hell lot more sense. Even more so cuse the Dentons had something unique in them to accept the nanites augs
@@iurycabeleira7990 What doesn't make sense is how a guy was to survive and entire ocean, not to mention the facility collapsing on his head, and then float for a week in a water that was close to 0 celsius, apart from drowning ? He was dead as fuck. Probably didn't even resemble himself.
@@fonfa234 he's not just a guy though, he's mostly augment at that point. What he's got left that's actually human is... His brain, parts of his lungs, his spine or at least part of it. None of his sensory organs are original, probably not even his skin considering that it's dermal plating, and even his brain has many augments.
@@isaac13d Still I don't think it was possible for him to survive.. noo, If not the cold and the water, than the simple fact of Panchea collapsing would bury him beneath the ocean forever.
Sarif’s reaction at 3:05 to Adam’s inference sells the theory to me. Can’t look Adam in the eye, clearly uncomfortable and choosing his words carefully, like he has ideas eating at him that he’s forcing himself not to share and possibly denying. Very spooky, not at all like the corporate Santa Claus Sarif from HR. I wish I had picked up on more of this stuff my first playthrough.
I agree with the main sentiment expressed in the comments: the game heavily hints at Adam Jensen being a clone of the original Adam who died at Panchea, but the theory has complicated plot holes in it, particularly the fact that cloning isn't hinted to be so easy in this timeframe of the game. If the Illuminati secretly had super-advanced technology allowing them to clone people, it would be too convoluted for them to just limit themselves to use it specifically for Jensen, and in such a hasty way that they didn't even include Sarif serial numbers for their augs.
pretty sure there was something in the theory that helps debunk it, but something related to adam's no reliance on neuropozyne could have something to do it, considering how op that st at is that the orchid doesn't kill him who knows.
Well him surviving orchid would make sense if he was genetically modified with a complete version of the orchid compound, the orchid was made as a way to stop peoples bodies from rejecting augs.
Even in the original deus ex yo clone you needed to wait normal biological growth, it would've been impossible in this time frame at all.
I reckon when they installed the titan augs they reversed engineered the original augs on David and made new ones that where compatible with the titan ones. Also they used mind control to make Adam more complaint and be a unknowing mole into the Juggernaut Collection to try and take out Janus.
Its hard to figure out exactly what happened because they had no cloning ability within the lore during that time and even more so they can't flash clone people. The other thing is they can't use that mind transfering technology they were doing with that crazy women because it requires the brain to be active in order for it to work, so if Jensen was dead how are they going to transfer something from a dead brain.
Which leaves only some sort of mind control techniques since Jensen really wants to find/meet the leader of the Jaggernaught collective which the illuminati are also after. The only thing that is a bit confusing is the body of Jensen within the vault and nobody can really explain that, whether it was a fake body made up that may have been used in an illuminati scheme but didn't get used is still not explained.
Really though I think this has to be the same Adam Jensen as human revolution and the whole argument about adam jensen 2.0 will be in reference to the new augmentations that he got.
I think there was more to this part of the game. Then they cut half the game
there’s been rumours the game was cut short a bit and I think most positive reviews agree in ends kinda abruptly - the consensus seemed to be a Mankind Divided Part II (a full sequel) was planed... but then S-E decided they should make The Avengers instead :(
I know, it sucks. Marchenko was the worst "main villain" ever. He was just a middleman, muscle type. First boss material. Oh wait...
@@TrevorPhilips yeah, a great trade ☹️
Almost like this was the middle part of a trilogy
Square Enix lol
When he says Adam it doesn't hit as hard as the "AHHHHdum" from DXHR 😆
i missed the original voice actor’s voice
I'm 7 years late but I recently replaying all 3 main games. JC and Adam are genetically engineered lifeforms born from test tubes. Their parents were actually scientists/ actors.
There could be like 20 Adam Jensens for all we know. Same thing with the Dentons.
"Are you suggesting all my augs are new? Even the ones you gave me?"
That actually makes sense, considering Jensen's augs look pretty different to how they did in Human Revolution.
Also, where do you find the schematics in GARM?
last large open area... bottom-middle wall there's a room, and it's on the right as you enter
here~
czcams.com/video/LlctrLHk0mM/video.html
How Jensen's aug look different from HR ???
Here after finding out Embracer Group cancelled the next Deus Ex game and laid off a number of developers at Eidos Montreal. It’s so fucking heartbreaking to see people constantly losing their jobs in the video game industry as a result of corporate greed.
Same. An absolute gaming tragedy.
God MD could have been perfect, it's still among the most beautiful looking games made, gameplay is fantastic, story is good, the only thing is that it needed to be like twice as long.
As far as I know, the game was half cut to put the second part on a new Deus Ex game. But then Avengers appeared and they cancelled the second part...
@@locospetisothankfully they're apparently working on a new Deus Ex now though under their new publisher. But its probably going to be a way off yet.
@@LouSassol69erit’s over for that :(
@@Uplifttiger8750 yeah thanks to their amazing publisher Embracer
Sarif definitely had conclusion he purposefully didn't tell Adam because his conculsions implied that Adam, or at least this Adam, was compromised, even if "remarquably stable".
Idk if im the only one but i love the fact that he Calls adam son.
Mankind Devided is Criminally Underated, I had so many Give Me Deus Ex Runs on it. Love it.
To this day, the atmosphere alongside the background music of Adam's apartment is unmatched in games of these category. Cp 2077 safe room feels so dull. Also look at those rain droplets on Adam. And yes! The droplet effects are present on every guns too. Man pre COVID games were made with passion rather than greed and recycling.
This amazing game didn't get a conclusion because Avengers needed to be made..... thankfully the IP isn't held by Square Enix anymore so we might get a sequel one day
Yer but the IP is held by a company that is crumbling over the debt it owes
These games had the best narrative IMO. Hoping for a 3rd game
I want something modern though, with Denton or something.
It is rumored to be in early development, a full next gen deus ex game… I can’t think of any game more exciting than that lol. Hope it comes sooner than we think, and follows this story of Adam jenson.
@@Tahan_117 I seriously hope they don't try to reboot it into another character or something, like Paul or JC.
I think I speak for pretty much the entire fanbase when I say I wanna see Jensen's story concluded. There's just too many unsolved plot points which border on cliffhangers in MD.
@@xIcarus227 there’s a slight chance that this might happen because, to my knowledge, the IP was recently acquired by a new studio (or publisher, I’m not exactly sure), so maybe they’ll make their own continuity, but Adam Jensen has way too many unexplored stories and potential, I hope they at least continue with the character.
@@Tahan_117Where did you hear these rumours from?
1)Jensen chances of surviving the destruction of Panchaea and being in the freezing ocean for a week are low, winning the lottery 11 times in a row while doing a back flip , getting stuck by lightning while at it and landing on your feet low. (even with his extreme augmentation)
2)his memory has a lot of gaps
3) there is the entire serial killer story line quest about implementing memories (project that had ~2 decades to evolve)
4) Sarif makes it plainly obvious that his augments are not the one he gave "Adam Jensen" (he does not state I gave YOU , he states the implants he gave Adam Jensen) and if you have not figured out by what he is saying that said augments are NOT the original ones he gave you (just copies , remember TY bought out sarif and all its tech) , then you may wish to replay the game.
5) the body in versa life vault is clearly identical to you , it can only mean 2 things : 1) it is a clone of you , 2) you are the clone of the original Adam, read the points above and it is easy to see what the truth is.
Okay, now hear me out. What if the entirety of "The missing link" is just a memory inserted into Adam's brain and it was the clone who did everything after being launched from the dock what Adam blew up until the destruction of Panchea?
@@NateNeverAskedForThis Interesting , certainly could be , but appears unlikely
@@Heretus Unlikely? Theres no pod when you’re being interrogated. You just straight up jump to the torture scene. No finding out, no going out of it… makes sense right ?
Okay, just finished The Black Light for the second time (my memory bad), and the reason WHY Jensen survived in the ocean (even though he shouldn't have), is because of his blood. What does that mean I'm not certain.
His memory has alot of gaps because he was in a coma for a yearish.
The serial killer thing was an experiment made by Tai Yong Medical, and was scratched after Myška went rogue.
TY didn't take all of it's tech, for example they didn't even touch the Typhoon, the Illuminati tried taking it, but failed and everything Sarif ever made is either destroyed or taken by TY... but it's more than obvious Jensen's augs are not Sarif's but copies... That perhaps happened in the year gap.
I think its clear - we need a final chapter, a big one. So that Adam's story can be brought to a satisfactory conclusion for the fans!! Given time, I think that will happen.
This is more cyberpunk than cyberpunk 2077
Cyberpunk 2077 is fucking garbage compared to Deus Ex.
Deus Ex franchise has so much class that it can't be compared with some wannabe garbage Cyberpunk
It's embarassing how much of Cyberpunk's worldbuilding was cut out of CP2077
Are you comparing one of THE cyberpunk franchises to Skyrim with a futuristic skin ?
You know this does bring a point to the fore, Sarif must be one of, if not THE most legitimately decent Cyberpunk CEOs ever depicted. He's legitimately more focused on improving the world than making money, treats his employees well, owns up to mistakes when he's called on them, goes out of his way to help his people (even in cases like this where Adam is no longer his employee) and on Panchea his first instinct on seeing Adam was to start trying to get the wounded evacuated, rather than immediately trying to get himself out.
Here's to this mystery getting solved in the third game.
Many people in both sides of the clone theory misinterpret Sarif's lines about the serial numbers. Listen to the context. He is not saying "your augs have no serial numbers" or "you have different augs than I installed." He is saying "the john doe story does not hold up." Adam isn't understanding, and he reiterates it. "The augs I put in adam jensen had serial numbers" is like saying "they have your fingerprints on file; why would they be unable to ID you if you have your fingers?" ergo the john doe thing is and obvious lie and it is unexplained why he wouldn't be on the recovery lists.
This isn't shooting down the clone theory, (which I believe is settled by the body in the veralife vault with the asset name 'jenson body in veralife vault') it's merely clarifying a point that creates a lot of pointless confusion on both sides.
finally someone who thinks for at least 5 minutes. I can't stand all those people who jump to conclusion just because of a few words and a placeholder in versalife. There is no evidence, there is no confirmation, it was not made canon by the devs so this whole clone theory is so pointless.
Also, the Versalife vault body face thing could be a hint that Adam is just being schizoid about his origin. I know i would be pretty fucked up if forced to live what Jensen went trough.
which means Adam's escape from the Alaska facility was planned at some point considering they wanted him to find Janus they thawed Adam out so to speak and let him do his "easy escape"
@@LakituKoopa It's not "just a placeholder". If it's just a random body, why make it look like Adam. And why name the file "Jenson body in Versalife vault". The clone theory is so obvious it's not even funny. Even the design of the start screen hints at it, with the two faces of two Adams facing each other
@@MentalParadoxI didn't see two Adam in the start screen
. There are no people in start screen. It is the screenshot of Golem that is it.
"You augmentations had serial numbers, or at least the ones I had installed into Adam Jensen did." I would have never picked up on what he was saying if it weren't in the dialogue options. When I first heard this I thought ht was just referring to the the secret augs.
I thought it was they reversed engineered adams augs and made new ones that would be compatible with the titan augs.
@@mitchjames9350 That's what it actually was.
@@Dennis-nc3vw the implication people are saying is he might of died and was cloned.
@@mitchjames9350or Even crazier his Brain was ejected and changed to a new body to be an Illuminati manchurian agent
"I know my augs sarif"
For anyone who is saying he isn't a clone, I didn't believe he was until I read the black light novel. Beth DuClaire said she pulled Jensen out of Panchea. But whenever the "black light" project is mentioned, its obvious that the "dead man" is Jensen.
I'll believe it when the sequel confirms it, whenever that is
everything in deus ex is cannon i believe it. Interesting
That is what the writers want you to think and you might be fooled. I think is possible Adam Jensen is a clone of this "dead man" featured in "Black Light" project and he actually survived Panchea.
Check out my film, The Spark. I wrote and directed it and it deals with cloning. I played Sarif in HR. Think you'll like the film. vimeo.com/ondemand/thespark?fbclid=IwAR0EAyNALK5-8m3QMM17M9r0dOKMLfu-Vs81xDQogdnI3Q446PY9kzsF2UY
@@Athraxas If he's a clone they have the same DNA. Similar enough to be identical in a DNA test.
They overkilled it a bit with Sarif's body language. He supposed to be a billionaire magnate yet he's twitching like a teenager in school
Notice in this BOTH his arms are now augmented too.......in Human Revolution, only his right arm was augmented.
Cause he's trying to come off as friendly to Adam
It makes sense, he is nervous as he suspects the Adam he is talking to is a clone/unwitting spy now.
@@SomeGuy1234X yeah it's possible that there's some kind of tracking beacon or noise recording chip inside this supposed clone. It would make sense that if Sariff suspects something like that, he would try to be cautious with what he says to Adam.
@@Zayindjejfj plus, he would feel very conflicted because he wants this guy to be the same Adam that he considered a surrogate son
Anyone new to this clone theory, here is what you have to remember. It is very likely that Adam Jensen in MD is a clone, but it is also the original Adam Jensen as his whole memory was transplanted into the new clone. Of course, his memory has been tempered a bit but it is still the original Adam continuing his life in a new body.
I think this is the most plausible, given the Janus thing.
That's not how any of that works. He's still 100% a copy. You scanned the brain of the dead Adam, copying the data (memories) from his brain, then "pasted" this data to the brain of the fresh clone. You copied it. Cloning is not a viable means of extending one's life. I'm a transhumanist and this is why I chose cryonics over mind-uploading
The whole idea of him being a clone seems so out of place and stupid. I really hope it us not true.
@@spacejunk2186 Based on the books and assets found in the game it's likely that he is a clone.
In first Deus Ex Denton became a Machine God. It was a cyberpunk ending, original character died and became something else. Writers of Human Revolution also wanted this type of ending. For them he was supposed to die in the final crash on that game. But popularity of Jensen was quite big so they were forced to bring him back. But they brought him while keeping their original purpose intact.
Also, Adam Jensen is named Adam because he was the father of all artificial life form in Deus Ex. His cells could have been easily used to make clone.
@@MentalParadox For me memorie are the core of what a person is. If ideals and memories are retained, it's still that person, just in another body. Of course you are right to have your opinion. All in all, both are means to go beyond Humans.
"your augmentations have serial numbers or atleast the ones i had installed in adam jensen did"..... what does that imply? too bold!
This Adam is a clone
This adam is a clone. The original was lying in the versalife vault in the container
Or the other way around, that the clone is in the vault
@@crimthann oh shit
It implies that if there are more AUGS in Jensen we can match them with sarifs numbers and see if they are him. The other part is just flamboyant talk
The Sarif calls after learning about the likely canon clone theory is kinda creepy. He knows 100% that this Jensen is just a clone with different augs provided by Page
Continuity is preserved - the neural data of Adam Jensen was pulled from his original body, and implanted into the "new" Jensen.
So yes, Adam Jensen died. But then he got to return.
I'm not saying you're wrong but I am also saying how would you know? And more interestingly, and haunting for the game, how would Adam know the difference?
So Sarif got new Voice Augs
Hopefully in my lifetime I get to see Adam Jensen’s story conclude in the next game, with him finding closure with what REALLY happened to him in Panchea.
Last year it was reported that they're working on a new entry under their new publisher. When the game could be finished and released by though, I don't know.
He might be a clone of adam with his memories well that’s one theory since you can find his body in the game
There isn't a good enough reason to have the "Watcher" watch Jensen if all they did was add a few non-active augmentations that couldn't even be turned on without killing him. The Psychologist displays actual human emotion when talking to Jensen, but calls him coldly "the subject" when in the council chambers, suggesting she definitely sees him simply as a test subject that is not actually human.
Of course there is a reason. Delara Auzenne can' keep tabs on Adam all the time without compromising her cover, so it naturally makes sense to have an additional set of eyes on him where possible when he's not inside TF-29. It also means the Illuminati can gauge potentially how close they are to him getting close to Janus while 'The Watcher' reports back on his movements and who he interacts with.
God that is the best game i have played ever
Facilty four, fifty-one.
0451!!
I know the HR apartment got sold but it'd be cool if they made a 3rd game and when Adam walked in the 'Smart Home' the AI said, Welcome home Mr. Jens... Adam... is that really you?'
Sort of like Big Boss/Venom/the Boss AI from PW in MGS V. 'John... is that really you?' Would be awesome if 'Adam' became like Big Boss/Venom haha
Imagine if the original HR Jensen is ressurrected with nanotechnology like the Paul / JC Denton with complete organic limb fused with nanotechnology ( albeit the prototype version )
and the 2.0 ( MD version ) with the most advanced mechanical augmentation.
It would be fun playing the 2 jensen version in the story ( as long they doesn't make the HR Jensen like the Paul Denton who only available as support character )
I know I'm three years too late, but hear me out. He walks in and the AI can't identify him, or maybe identifies him as someone else. This directly ties into him discovering he's a clone.
@@trianglemoebius Ah, so you too subscribe to the idea that MD Jensen _is_ a clone. I read a lot of people simply disregard it of hand very quickly but I don't understand why. Based on Sarif's ambiguity in the dialogue, plus the secret body at the labs, it seems like a genuine possibility, right?
@@Ancor_Vantian Exactly. I'm in the field that we'll need a third game to either confirm or deny it, but it's POSSIBLE, and therefore I cannot just dismiss it.
I'm saying that, if that's their plan, it would be a neat way to point to it.
I suppose we'll have to hope we get a third game to see.
I'm so conflicted on this clone thing. All evidence given in quests and such (especially the frozen torso in the locker) support him being a clone, but the whole Aug part seems to directly refute it. Unless they took all his old augs off and put them on his new body (which would probably be obvious to Adam considering it's mentioned that whoever put in the "new augs," cut a few corners) there's no way Adam wouldn't be able to tell the Augs were different. Not to mention different Augs would mean things like his infolink would be slightly different and all the old friends that hack into it throughout the game wouldn't be able to reach him.
My Conclusion: Adam is a clone, but the writers are really bad at telling that part of the story.
The mere presence of new augs is a smoking gun for something else happening while Jensen was in a coma. Chances are, the actual quality effort into making Jensen 2.0 happened at VersaLife (likely involving Reed, who would know how to augment him properly) before DeBeers ordered a relocation to Switzerland, where Orlov tinkered with Jensen while installing neuroconditioners, like what Daria Myska had.
@@AWizardfromMars really good ideas, especially with the Meghan thing, but it still feels like they are hinting at Adam being a clone.
Actually no. Side quest are suggesting memory alteration thingy which is further evidenced by events from Criminal Past DLC. But I'll just copy what I gathered so far against clone theory.
To start of, successful flash cloning is impossible, at least at this point in the timeline because when JC (DX1) was cloned he was born and grew up to adulthood like a normal human being (JC is born same year Mankind Divided's events take place). Illuminati having cloned Jensen way before is also heavily unlikely because everything related to Adam in White Helix Labs got burned to the ground and Illuminati had no knowledge of Adam before events of HR (there is entire side quest in HR dedicated to Illuminati's goons trying to learn more about Jensen and his past which is really baffling if they have clones of his kept in storage). Also their entire attack on Sarif HQ plan and biochip research that was the main point of HR's plot would make absolutely no sense whatsoever if they had access to every material they needed years before.
Another possible argument for cloning is early Universal Constructor, possibly in facility Adam was transported to after Aug Incident as some people suggest. But that's a stretch too because making JC to be born normally, prepare artificially a specific environment for him to grow up in for you to have a loyal, dependable asset is irrational when at least 1-2 years earlier you could make a fully functioning clone that accepts augs like crazy out of thin air, implant him with memories and psychological conditioning that makes him a dependable asset nearly instantly. If it was because they needed to wait for nanoaugmentations to get into desirable state then why not create JC at that moment and implant him with fake memories rather than going in with that costly and time consuming shit of killing his parents, getting him to certain schools, monitoring him for all these years and so on?
Another thing also related to UC argument is Dentonian Timeline from design documents of DX1 (www.nanoaugur.net/dx/bible/) that Eidos bases lore of their games on. It goes like this:
- 2018: Paul Denton born
- 2023: Paul, age 5, selected as test subject, cloned
- 2028: Tests on clones show limited success; Paul's mother impregnated with J.C.
- 2029: J.C. Denton born; scientists perfect embryonic incubator; additional clones grown over the next 15-20 years
- 2034: Experiments begin on second generation of clones (~age 5)...
If they had access to UC around 2029 then why didn't they construct Paul's clones for experimentation with it instead of the JC way of waiting years for them to grow a bit? Sounds really... stupid.
People cling to DX1 plot inconsistency where various NPCs tell us that he had family, he grew up and so on and in Area51 there are cloning vats (some rooms before Page taunts Denton about his parents so...) but so far lore of Eidos DX games is consistent with Deus Ex Bible making going that route highly unlikely. Paul's birthdate is officially 2018 as in DX Bible too. But even if we go the vat-clone route, on inspection JC's statis directly states that his incept date is 2054 which is impossible as game takes place in 2052. Morpheus AI knows that JC is cloned and straight up tells him that he is 23 years old, no reason for it to lie to him about his age. If Paul and JC had memory implants like Jensen then it would be really stupid for Mj12 to include memories where they both suspected that JC was engineered organism rather than being Paul's natural brother like they intended.
Another clue people grasp at is Mystery Augs side quest but we can see in aug menu that basic augs have Sarif logo on them, in Black Light when he wakes up he recognizes his augs and damage they sustained during events of HR instantly. Sarif's "bla bla in Adam Jensen did" line is nothing more than a suggestion that no one bothered to check them because they knew exactly who they are dealing with and nod that TITAN augs installed in him have no identification. Which he pretty much confirms if you ask him further about it.
Other clues involve Eliza and her talk about coexistence with other versions of ourselves but since the talk was given in context of memory (current Picus Eliza has no memories, desires and urges that original one has). Better yet other side quest touches on it. Richard from Cult of Personality side quest blatantly tells lines such as "Allow me to suggest something - a version of you. A version that strips away all suspicions, free of the sinister selves we cling to along the way", "they [cultists] have found a better version of themselves..." and some other ones. In Harvester side quest Daria Myska also talks about different version of herself. It all leans more into mind alteration thing rather than cloning.
In Prague there is a magic shop called Negozio di Magia in which is a fortune teller machine that after paying 250 credits says one of several lines. One of these lines is "Some version of you is perfect. You are not her". Notice the 'her' in it, it can't be clone. Add earlier paragraph of the talk about versions to it.
It is kind of far-reaching speculation but if MD Adam is a fresh clone with implanted memories of original one with some bonus ones added to it then wouldn't that be strange that he is able to sense that something is not right, that some memories seem alien to him in Black Light novel and kind of in Criminal Past? If anything all memories should seem alien to him or not a single one should because all of them are implanted.
So in light of all that Adam being a clone would be one of the biggest asspulls in the history of asspulls, maybe ever. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
One thing that remains is body in vault but to be honest it could be anything. Notice that it is purposefully made hard to see what the heck it really is without using 3rd party programs or glitches. But ignoring all that, the body might be failed attempt at flash cloning, it might be a decoy ready to be deployed in case Jensen's mission is compromised and Illuminati need to hijack him, some kind of lab grown 'living' material left for study (after all Jensen's medical capabilities are still valuable which Orchid and aug testing shows) while the 'donor' is on his mission to neutralize Janus. Anyway in light of what's above MD Jensen being functioning clone or the thing in vault being a functioning clone/original one is very unlikely.
It is in the style of deus ex to drop conspiracy bombs to make things more convoluted. For example, they did genetically modified animals that looked like aliens only to create them as a cover up for area 51 experiments. It is quite possible that they cloned Adam, but you play as original, and the frozen body is the actual clone.
Thanks for this
Rick Miller was Sarif’s new voice actor, agreed he did decently but didn’t felt that Uncle David vibe Stephen Shellen did, still in video game work Rick also voiced The Dark Prince in Prince of Persia The Two Thrones and Winston Churchill in Assassins Creed Syndicate
Why didn't he return as Sarif?
@@LouSassol69er Problems with the syndicate/actors guild that represent him I guess, actors that are in unions tend to have a little more challenge in finding job that the ones that are not union, could be that the company representing the cast of the Deus Ex games didn’t call Stephen for Mankind Divided
Yet another thing I have not done, the game just keeps giving...
Saw a theory on TvTropes Adam will become the basis or the 1st of the Men in Black from Deus Ex.
Side Note the new Guardians of the Galaxy game made by Eidos Montreal will be inspired by the Deus Ex games, specially HR and MD gameplay, story/character development and game verticality
Don't care.
Give me Deus Ex or give me nothing. Disney Marvel stuff is boring, super heroes are boring, American "ideas" are boring. Begone.
feel like adam being used as prototype for all of those experimental aug later used by those cyber merc.
damn. imagine the sequel to this and final game connecting to the original will turn out good and answer all of the questions, and they make another game of you using Paul on his story before JC joined UNATCO with these vibes and same voice actor for paul
That's not Sarif, he doesn't say "Adam" with any enthusiasm
He's been through some shit, okay?
Aaddumm.
Since the licence is not with Square (f*ck them) I really hope they're working on Deus Ex last chapter of Jensen story (could be nice to have it link with the original game, then go for a remake of the 1st one with the art direction of HR/MD.
That's likely the plan, or at least it was at some point. I have an acquaintance who works (or has worked, I'm not sure anymore) for Eidos on DE:MD as one of the designers/artists and he told me that one of the ideas being rolled around was to finish the "Jensen trilogy", bridging the story gap between it and the original Deus Ex, and then remaking the original. But I doubt this'll happen any time soon, if ever. :/
This gamer is really good and look good at this year 2024
Really wish we got to play more and uncover the fact that Adam (probably) was a clone
If I remember right, it is the same actor. He even mentioned in his CZcams page back then.
His voice had changed a bit or the direction for Sharif was different or something like that.
I think Adam destroyed Hyron and died with it.
The face model of adam jensen is impressive.
not only does sarif immediately pick up jensen's call but he is in the same place since last time you both spoke... i sense something...
You mean Sarif is now an AI?
@@Mayhzon I think that's what I was going for... it's been 1 year I have no idea what I was thinking back then
Its just lazy devs lol
A cover-up that whole situation stunk of someone higher up cutting loose ends, classic corpo One-oh-One
They know of Adam and his reputation for being very compatible with Augs, that Heist "easter egg" from that vault is the real Adam
This one has implanted memories and thinks he's the real one, hence why he *believes* that he lived that life but zip nada from after
Maybe we start out as MD Jensen then HR Jensen is recalled maybe twisted to serve a new purpose or it ends up going into a global epidemic of the grey death, now i'm just pulling stuff out of my ass but the idea of this being a prequel or leading to something similar is potentially interesting
I'm just curious as to how Eidos is going to "do what Cyberpunk couldn't" it's so vague but specifically worded I think a Deus Ex resurgence is closer than we think
Despite the issues i think Mankind Divided was pretty good, no, really, now please let me off this locker! Im afraid of the dark!!
I see all this people making theories that he still is the same Jensen from HR, but can someone explain to me how he could actually survive Panchea ? It is impossibru...
Sarif survived Panchea too....
@@000mjd Yeah, and a few others, the only logical explanation is that they were being evacuated while Jensen was doing his thing downstairs, or that the water didn't flood the upper levels... dunno.
crazy reply to a 3 year old comment, but Jensen's augments are said to have kept him alive, specifically his augmented heart and such (which provided the health regen in the game)
Rest in peace Adam, you never asked for this but I would do anything for a 3rd instalment of your story.
I think what would’ve of happened is that Adam finds out he himself is a Clone and was made before the events of HR when the OG Adam was a regular human. OG Adam died in the events of Pangea (I cannot spell sorry) his clone was awoken by Bob Page and Co solely for the purpose for testing cloning and memory implantation. Things happen maybe the frozen guy in the original dues ex is the ultimate antagonist for Adam to overcome. Only for Adam to get so close to revealing to the public all of this and getting even closer to uncovering the full truth. Only to be killed by… Paul Denton, Adams Biological Son
Sucks its a different voice actor. Btw he says son in the previous game a few times. In this DLC he says it too much lmao.
Poor adam doesn't know he is a clone
what? he is a clone????
Kiddo McMachine Yea you can find original jensen frozen in the versalife vault and its mention throughout the game and even by an NPC that jensen isnt the real jensen because he died in HR.
At that time I guess creating exact copies of people was very costly and they made the original Adam the way they did to probably study his development like they did Paul and JC , but there are probably also complications to cloning and memories we haven't seen yet because during MK that Adam has trouble remembering things and he will probably soon realize he isn't him from everything he has gathered and that's probably where he loses it and thats when Debeers says he is activating the sleeper cell, he is taking control of Adam. By the end of the prison DLC Adam scares the shit out of the psychologist by hinting in a way that he knows she is the enemy and he will kill her if he finds evidence so he is bound to find out he is a clone sleeper cell when its too late, so he will probably be used by bob page to form MJ12 by taking out volkard and crippling the other members. But I do agree like phantom pain I feel betrayed we weren't even playing as the actual main character.
can you tell me where can I find the original Jensen or npc that talks about it
He is in the versalife vault in maze bank in one of the containers in the corner and the npc randomly appears and quotes it.
I mean, some comments are hinging on Sarif's statement that Sarif's augs has serial numbers on them, and that if he was found in Alaska, they would've had documentations on him.
And that since it'd have Sarif's serial numbers, they'd know it was Jensen.
But since supposedly since they didn't find Sarif's serial number on "this" Jensen, this must be a clone.
But that logic has a bunch of loopholes. For one, it must've meant that the "real" Jensen must still be submerged in water or whatever, since there's no trace of the "real" jensen anywhere.
How could the body in the vault be the real jensen, when again, there's no trace of Jensen being anywhere.
The next counter-argument would be that Alaska found the real Jensen, then copied him, and this resurfaced.
But then, that's also faulty, because the basis for the copied Jensen is Alaska having no records... then that just means that Alaska could've found the real Jensen (this one) and then just not have any documents on him, meaning they just deleted it. And so the whole logic falls apart.
As such, I think it's too far fetch atm to say that the Jensen we're playing is a clone... though there could be a cloned Jensen OUT THERE, but certainly, it's not this one.
I mean, if I think about it, if this is all the illuminati's doing... there should be a consequence out there that's bad (in the scheme of things) because of this Jensen's action... if again, this was part of the illuminati's plan.
However, I think it's the opposite, since it's because of this Jensen's action is what formed the Silhouette, the resistance group.
So yeah, until the sequel, I think clone Jensen is kind of a stretch.
Fu k avengers gimme a goddam sequel already
I don't believe jensen is a clone here
I find it hard to believe that janus wouldn't out him to the anti illuminati group
After the end of the game it's discovered that Adam is either a clone or an AI that thinks it's Adam. The specifics aren't ever made clear.
My pet theory is they Adam was destined to become the AI Icarus that JC meets toward the end of the OG Deus Ex. It would make narrative and thematic sense given all the Icarus imagery through HR and MD.
My Adam didn't have raindrops on him. What graphic setting is this? I think I was playing on 'Very High'
It was on a PS4
bugs
The raindrops only appears during the curfew
How they are present even in the lowest settings
"Facility 451"
slow clap
(i really need to finish this game, lol)
So for all of you, who think Adam is a clone: He is NOT a clone. This is just a made up fan theory, which is not even confirmed by Square Enix and Eidos. The body you see at Versalife is most likely a placeholder object or some leftover of some alterations to the level or something else, happens a lot in different games. Besides, you can only see the body if you use noclip or use tricks to get the camera there, so was never supposed for the player to see that or planned by the devs. Moreover, we do not have the confirmation of the wikis as well. I can even show you how flawed this theory is by making another one for human revolution: Adam Jensen was killed in the beginning by Namir (directly to terminate patient X) and cloned by LIMB (LIMB is financed by the Illuminati and Page) with all the memories of the original Adam. So we play a clone all along because no one survives a direct headshot with a revolver. See what I did there? That is why we can´t say that Adam is a clone in MD, because everything can be made up easily.
Please people, you can have your theories, but don´t declare them as canon without evidence and confirmation.
I'm declaring the clone theory as cannon with all the all the ample evidence and without confirmation.
@@dagabeinator all you need to do is increase the game brightness or throw an EMP and you can see the body. Hell, you can even see it with the vision mode turned on. That's obviously the Devs wanting people to see that. And the ebook and emails on the vault laptop.
What about the bridge guy who says he saw jensen in the box?
@@Back2Life Have not heard about the bridge guy, could you tell me what to search? Played through the intro of the game again the other day and you are 100% correct about the clone theory, even without the vault as evidence the game drops so many breadcrumbs that it might as well be considered official. The intro cinematic shows him face down in the ocean at panchea and in the first conversation with Sarif you find out that Jensen was like that for at least 7 days. 100% dead.
@@dagabeinator Check the wiki page on the theory. Plus all the documents in the vault back the theory up.
you sure it wasn't meant to be discovered? it's located in the secret versalife vault, after all
Embracer will resurrect Deus Ex when they hit harder times
After passage Deus Ex, many questions remain and how i want to sequel.
Because this is was interesting
OOOH SHIT ITS CONFIRMED THIS JENSEN IS A CLONE!! OOOOH FUUUUUUUUCK
He he he facility 451
welcome back to citadel station
Really not a fan of the new voice for Sarif.
* sigh*
Augs is not a word and augments is not a noun, sadly.
Not yet my man