Is Base Training In Winter A Waste Of Time?
VloĆŸit
- Äas pĆidĂĄn 17. 11. 2022
- Recently Zone 2 training has become a bit of a buzz word in cycling, but it's actually similar to something cyclists have been doing for years; base training. But the problem with this was that we always had to do it in the winter. So this begs the question, do we need to do base training, and if so, do we have to do it in the winter? Si finds out!
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Do you do base miles in the winter?
Yes
I fear my all my training maybe called base training
MAF, where you do so much Zone 2, that your HR is lower than your competitors, when at race pace. Why is that an advantage.........
@@ElonMuckX I guess youâre not part of the âlow heart rate good; high heart rate badâ camp lol
i commute about 90 tot 110 km a week from home to work on my citybike
I find the early winter long miles keep my weight under control and has sets me up for a great season. Iâll mix in intensity without hesitation if I feel like it.
I'd love to see a videa which looks at "training", performance improvement and goals for people who aren't concerned about racing. Maybe at most they do the occasional Audax - but the people who cycle commute, or like casual rides with friends or a few hours at the weekend, or maybe bike packers. Where the goal isn't always winning or the fastest time. But people might have goals like better recovery, longer in the saddle, more comfort/less aches and pains, improved fitness so it feels easier and smoother. Sometimes we can make these improvements just by going out and doing our regular rides, but there could be things we could try that help us towards those goals
Especially as we get older (65+)
Great comment Robin đ This style of zone 2 slow and steady riding will also pay dividends for those long distance Audax and bike packing riders.
Exactly. I do long zone 2 rides because my goal is to do longer and more frequent zone two rides where I enjoy the scenery.
I don't worry about intensity. I just ride as much as my schedule permits (100-150 km/week) and I do a lot of hills, mostly because I can't avoid them. With no plan at all, I seem to "train" at zone 2 virtually all of the time, with accidental bursts of high intensity here and there. I'm 61, though, and my goals are pretty modest: have a nice time on the bike, stay physically and mentally fit, and, above all, avoid injury.
Great comment đ All seems too complicated these days!
That, I think, is the best approach for a non-competitive cyclist no matter the age.
So to sum up:
Do the volume training, do the high intesity training, rest, eat well, do... everything. Mix it up so you could improve in all fields.
I love this. I appreciate the âyou do youâ approach. Itâs always great to have input from the pros, as well as the scientists. I may be a casual cyclist, but increasing fitness is just as important as enjoying the great outdoors.đđŽââïž
Brilliant and balanced video guys. Iâm an Ironman coach and you summed it up better than I ever could. You have to keep the fun there!
thank you from my heart Si! i believe you are telepathic! you were able to reply to a host of questions churning around in my brain for a while now! listening to my body and offering it variety is my new motto! keep up the great information channel!
These training tips & interviews with experts are great - informative, helpful and also entertaining, well done!
Really enjoyed this video, thanks Simon and GCN. I've just had large tumour removed from my right lung, with a third of the lung, and am just doing some indoor low and moderate efforts around an hour in length to get my lungs functioning again. Strength training is out for the moment, as is outdoor training, (not wanting to fall off and damage surgery site is main reason). At 60yrs I think my chances of winning a Grand Tour are over, but if I'm slow or fast makes no difference, I just want to enjoy my cycling.
I had major surgery myself 16 weeks back. Tumour removed from pancreas and loss of the Spleen. Had to avoid hernias in the site of surgery. Training again (indoors) after 11 days. Broke every record after 12 weeks! 62 years old next week. 95% Zone 2.
Wishing a full (as possible) and speedy recovery Ian.
@@ricf9592 Glad you're back at it Ric.
@@aubreywhitley6889 thanks. I'm doing well and everyday get stronger. Cycling has been a big help, lung function test was high 90s even with 1/3 lung doing nothing. Being fit and otherwise healthy certainly aids recovery.
Hope the best for you. You seem to have the right spirit.
Lots of good information here. I think one of the key things is that you have to enjoy the training--the workout always has to work for you, and not you for it! At this time of year my cycling is all indoors but I also find mixing it up with running and resistance training keeps things fresh and helps me forget I won't be on the road again until mid-April!
100% âŠ.. Iâve gone back to rollers recently - a change is as good as a rest
Very true, you should only ride if you are enjoying it. Chances are you'll train better too!
Coming from a varied sport background itâs good to see some coaching advice that is catching up to what other endurance athletes have been doing for a while. đ
I think Fausto Coppi, put this more simply: âRide a bike. Ride a bike. Ride a bikeâ
Thatâs what my fat mother in law does as she saunters back and forth to McDonaldâs every day.
Yo I totally read this like I was listening to this song czcams.com/video/GlKL_EpnSp8/video.html ride a bike :)
Or as Merckx said âride lotsâ.
This is exactly why people who are 70 can ride further and faster than 20 year olds that just took up cycling.
@@douglasbooth6836 shorter and faster though⊠not a chance in hell.
This is why cycling is so popular among old folks.
It is forgiving on the musculoskeletal system while still giving the sense of speed and distance due to the mechanical efficiency of cycling.
But ask a 70 year old to go toe-to-toe on a full weight bearing exercise with a young person - especially at a sprint pace for a short distance - and you better have the EMTâs on speed dial.
Great video Si, thank you. I think it would be great if you can expand on the conclusion on how we can figure out the training that benefits us or helps us get close to a particular target.
Great session! Love the motivation!
Totally agree with year round racing shape. I Nordic skied at a national level in winter, was a Cat 2 road racer and mountain biker in summer and raced mountain bikes in fall, with running races sprinkled in all through the year. The year round competing kept me motivated and sharp, and the seasonal change in sports kept it all fresh. I also experimented with more of an upside down pyramid during the transitional training from one sport to the other, and had some of my best results.
"Do what you enjoy..." That is the best fitness advice out there for 99% of us.
Another great info video keep it up gcn
Enjoyed this. Thanks
Very well explained. Everyone is deferent, find what works for you, that is the best!
Absolutely! đ
Outstanding! I not only learned what base training is, I found out I do it almost exclusively, year round! I'm ready for the monument of my choice with just six months notice. I'll be the guy in the canoe!
Thamk you for this video, it was very balanced and insightful, thank you!
Thanks! Here's another video about winter training you might find interesting czcams.com/video/rER0kk3izio/video.html
Great to see a video that is relevant to those of us who only have a few hours a week đ
Depending On your muscle type and lactate dynamics versus type of cycling . Keep the good work
Great Video!
Years ago Iâd be doing 200 miles a week - these days I donât have time for this, so I do an hour on Zwift (or loving the rollers at the moment) zone 2, and end 3 minutes sprint âŠ. Feels very time efficient
Sounds like some great base training! Where are you riding in Zwift?
@@gcn sand and sequoiaâs đșđ»đ
@@JIMMYHIBBS1 Great stuff đȘ
It's completely different being a professional rider rather than an average joe with a 9-5, schooling, mortgage, wife, kids, etc. Mental stress is everything in this game! I know personally that if I was only to do one long zone 2 ride a week and then 1-2 days hard and the rest moderate I'd be burned out in about 2 weeks and probably want to strangle someone! If you ride year round with less than a week off at one time then most of your rides HAVE to be zone 2. Professional riders get paid to peak for certain times and events in the year so they have down time after the season. If you're not a professional rider and ride/race year round then the zone 2 rides ARE your down time. So are you building your base after your down time or are you maintaining your base year round? The training will look very different.
Well no, i've had winters when i was still a disciplined young gun, where i would religiously stick to base training and that really helped during the season. However, It's no fun. Weather is bad, daylight is sparse, winter already slows you down, etc. So ever since being a real MAMIL, I removed my wahoo from my bike in the offseason, and just ride my bike. Training benefits may be non existent, but i enjoy the rides i do in the winter. The fact i actually enjoy my rides, makes me want to ride more = benefit. Maybe not as efficient, but i'm not planning on winning the tour
Enjoying yourself should be the most important thing đ
My first season goal is in April next season so itâs not only base training for me. And what I found out about my anaerobic capacity is âif you donât use it, you loose itâ and it happens quickly.
Hi from Greece,very interesting video,and as i use to say, knowledge is power ,....
There is a physiological reason why base training is important and San Milan has published extensively on the effect on the mitochondria which is paramount for aerobic efficiency. Athletes that have been training for years in zone 2 can get away with not doing it for a year but as San Milan explained to Peter Attia you can't optimise performance without doing this and (more importantly) it's very beneficial for overall health and longevity
Just back from my zone 2 ride up to St.Paul de Vence for coffee! Lucky to live in this climate on Cote d'Azur. Gorgeous sunny day.
Sounds amazing đ
@@gcn It is but with more serious challenges like Col de Vence and Col d'Eze on the doorstep too!
Good video, lots of good advice. Could you do a video on indoor training on a dumb trainer?
Just ride your bike every day for commute to office, let say 20km per ride and you are good to gođŽđš
Commuting is a great way of building the miles up, even a fake commute if you work at home. Ride around the block or do a nice long loop before and after work. đ
Re: ~12:00, No Simon, it's exactly what I needed to hear. After two years of really focusing on the Z2 base and Periodized approach, I actually got slower. So now I'm back to a much more randomized, and intense approach.
Not sure you got that polarized base training approach right.... 9 days of relaxed high volume endurance training and 1 day of totally destroying yourself Best done in about 14 days time span.High intensity intervalls (to a point where after the session you almost fall of the bike). This will hardly make anyone slower unless he does not have enough trainings essions per week... if you only do 3 trainings a week that means you only have 1 hard session a months... that will probably not work
First of all, you need to enjoy your riding. For me a foundation is essential and then training can be periodised depending on a persons goals/time of goals. A great video with plenty of good information. Thanks GCN.
Thanks Ethan! Do you find it easy to fit in base training? đ
I've just completed the Zwift FTP Builder, but I'll be adding more zone 2 over winter, but mixing some higher intensity stuff. The structured training helps as it gets you doing things you wouldn't normally think of like changing cadence at different powers. I also like the fact it gets you to do training outside of your comfort zone, I've just finished sessions that I never thought I'd be able to, and it makes me want to do more in future.
Zone 2 = FUN (awareness and enjoyment of your surroundings, social interactions)
Zone 2 = building your bike handling skills
Zone 2 = building mental resilience
Zone 2 = expanding your horizons
Go a week of upper 50s on decem er comming. Just got clipless pedals and shoes, gonna give it a go with a little warmth. Keeping in mind what u have said.
I think the bit where he suggested training a weakness most resonated. My cycling has never been better than 2020 when all my races got cancelled & I thought âf**k itâ and did the SYSTM indoor race plan. Iâm usually much better at longer intervals but I broke my records for loads of shorter intervals. Everything from 1 to 8 minutes went up. My FTP did not peak however, but I didnât care that year. You could definitely psychologically get motivated by not being s**t at sprinting even if Iâd never put myself in a situation of needing to sprint.
Keep going and safe
It's winter. I rode yesterday. I call this a win
Yes just realised base training after a few years of cycling in âzone 3â for two /seven hours at a time ! Was getting faster but could only cycle twice a week with recovery and feeling exhausted with legs stiff !
Zone 2 is the way to go đ
Good video Si, some great points covered. I've been coaching for years and have adapted programmes as I learned more, after working with a wide range of athletes. Particularly good point from Neal regarding strength training; I've prescribed this for a long time, as a way of improving resilience to injury, as well as improving strength and conditioning to aid cycling directly. For many years, cyclists resisted this work, especially after February!
The point on keeping some quality in the programme is important. Z2 is fine to cover the endurance aspect, but the 'speed reminders' maintain some ability to work hard. Cyclocross is great, cross country running races (if reasonably trained as a runner) and more recently Zwift workouts/races. Mostly though, just have fun! đ
"Have your mind in the right place", now that's true advice for training.
Great stuff, Si!
Hope it helped đ
@@gcn pretty much exactly what I am doing re training during this miserable period đđ
@@christianemeiners9224 Keep it up đ
This doesn't contradict anything Inigo says. Base training is 80/20 typically. %80 zone 2 and most of the rest High Intensity zone 5 or 6. As the season approaches that changes more mid and high intensity ranges. But that zone 2 foundation benefits the higher intensity that is to come. Incorporating weight training is always good too.
Hey there!
I completely agree that base training in winter is a waste of time! I think that you would be much better off focusing on strength training and cardio in the winter.
When I started in early 90's, as a U17 in France one winter we did 1000km Z2 on fixed gear (same bike as for racing, yes we could: steel frames !), before starting normal gears and intensities leading to racing season in march. Fixed gear was a playfull way to pass boring Z2 time ! But way shorter rides than the adults of course.
Now I CycloCross madly september to march ! So I try to do my base miles all summer long but alone, I tend to be at Z3 on 2.5 hours rides, like a robot under the hot sun I love it ! It's probably way less beneficial for basis, but don't have the patience for longer slower rides, exept on the smart trainer (not connected I prefer watching TV) I can do Z2 to the letter, I'm dead bored way sooner though !
Here in North east Ohio, once the first snow flies (usually mid November) I won't touch my larger ring in the front. Not until after the first week of april (when the last snow has flown), will I begin to use it again. This keeps me relaxed & remembering the whole point of being out riding through the winter is in doing it.
3+ years of living off a bicycle, enjoy your rides.
Ya just need a bigger cog in the back:). Cheers from Solon. At least we had a great Fall!!
@@SidAuteur hell yeah. Running a schlumpf drive at the cranks with a rohloff rear hub. Living off the bike was awesome this past July & September. Enjoy your rides
Cleveland represent!
@@mhoudek12 Hell Yeah
The best intro from gcn yet
Mindfull cycling. Si đ
Doing something you love is never a waste of time
I'm an indoor rider mostly. I race Zwift throughout the year indoors, then add Ebike rides in spring and summer. I find weight training, racing gives me a good level of fitness being nearly 60yr old
This is probably the best video I've ever seen on GCN. Si, in his closing statement, gives the best advice I could think of, and here's why:
The coach being interviewed gives the names of certain riders as proof that one training system is better than another. Not good science. You could follow Wout's training regimen and you're never going to be close to the rider he is. In the entire pro peloton there is only one Wout, only one Pogacar, only one Evenepoel, only one Cav. There are just certain people who are freaks of nature because of their genetics, physiology etc... It's like wearing Jordan's and expecting to play like Jordan. Not going to happen.
So, as Si says in his wrap up, do what works for you and what makes you love riding your bike. Smash it, time trial it, or just tool around at an easy pace. That's what makes it such a great sport. It's all about enjoying your time on the bike. The minute that stops being the most important thing, you've taken the fun out of it and you're going to burn out.
Great job Si, keep these kinds of videos coming.
Thanks for such a great comment! Enjoyment has to be at the key of all your riding. Did you ever catch out video on which presenter rides the most? đczcams.com/video/aQ08BsBptm4/video.html . Conor may not have racked up the most miles but try telling us that his riding didn't look the most enjoyable? Riding with kids and messing arounds... amazing đ
Better yet is to ride and have fun. Honestly, counting watts, getting too fixed on zones just get one frustrated. If you really are a competitor ( not the same as being someone who likes to compete to yourself) and you will have more than 3 series races then it does make sense to be so structured, anything, get faster by enjoying your rides + bike. We most of us, are not getting any paycheques.
I hear you on getting frustrated sticking to zones⊠itâs so unpredictable due to multiple factors, and at times can take the fun part of your ride.
You get a hill, and instead of thinking âI going to honoree you as hard as I canâ, the first feeling is: there ir goes away my zone 2âŠ
Yes, but I like showing up ready for the fun! I absolutely agree on the fun part.
ISM does not suggest just doing Z2 riding through winter. he does suggest limited HIT and strength work.
Is that Oli, video bombing the first half of the interview in the reflection of the glass cabinet in the background??? I think he knows what he's doing! đ
I think it depends on the person. If you're someone who is extremely active throughout the year, then winter might not be the best time to start base training. However, if you're someone who is inactive or just starting to exercise, then base training in winter can be a great way to start building your fitness foundation.
Do a video on Ltwoo's new RX 12s hydraulic groupset!
8:12 I did not know Si could read minds. He sure read mine!
Man on many talents đ§ââ
I thought base training also developed your circulatory system which helps you clear lactic?
Honestly those words âdo what works for youâ are what everyone should listen to. And what works for you should be whatever keeps you enjoying riding.
I started making bigger gains on the bike when I focused more on enjoyment, doing what works for me and dropping strict structure. Donât get me wrong, structure is necessary to ensure progressive overload, but donât be too regimental with it.
I still have a day every week where I do what I want. Sometimes thatâs a easy coffee ride, other times itâs a 4-5hr solo ride or a 20K TT. Sometimes itâs not even a ride, it might be a run or a swim.
Regardless, do whatever works for you and donât take things to seriously. I make bigger gains riding 10hrs a week than what I did riding 15+ previously.
'Don't take things to seriously' words to live by đ Glad you enjoyed the video đȘ
Give this man a Bell's.
Big thumbs up
Great video, thank you. I love how women cyclists are getting more and more coverage as role models for the next generation.
Is that Ollie in the cabinet reflection during the interview with Neil đ
I did some digging into the research and it shows you actually DO need to have some good base training to add sprint intervals and intensity on. It's one reason why polarized training is so popular, because it works! However, the idea that you should ONLY do low-intensity work isn't true. As Neil points out, adding in some additional "quality" work is helpful.
Base training makes sense if you live in California or similar but in northern Europe it's hard to achieve, thus unproductive. Also depends, what kind of sport you are doing. Eg if you are doing long endurance events, such as ironman or similar, there is no little intensity in the specific training that one does close to the race it so may be better to work on the strength and short intervals during the off season, and then use this strength trying to prolong it to specific endurance event during the season.
Always do weights and strength work over the winter, use Zwift for rides, do a bit of swimming and fast walking/jogging. Wishful thinking to go abroad, can you just not mention warm weather training! We're all skint! lol
I am doing undualting training. A week of base then a week of intensity keeps it interesting
That's my kind of video
Merckx did loads of track cycling and motor paced work as well as base miles. Roger de Vlaminck did base miles and cross... What goes around comes around! Maybe modern coaches are too young and haven't looked back far enough, or at 62 I'm getting old. đ€
If you don't know who Roger de Vlaminck is, please check him out and then watch the classic Roubaix film, Sunday in Hell showing the race between him and Merckx.. back in the day! đ
You guys should talk about rocker plates. Riding a turbo for one hour is really dull, doing it for two or three is unimaginable for me. Yet on the road it s "easy". Are rocker plates an actual good solution? Because you can then clock in more winter hours.
I do spin classes because riding solo on the trainer sucks. "Is it over yet?" Maybe it's just having other people around. Though I many times I ignore the instructor and just do my own ride. Still trying to figure out my zone 2.
KISS!, training should be simple, do 80% easy zone to build aerobic base, building mitocondria, avoid injuries/overtraining and absorb adaptation , and 20% HIIT and threshold to increase power and vo2max.
20% of what? TSS, time, Training passes?
Would love for the guys from MythBusters to try and fire a canon from a canoe.
Currently embarking on zwift FTP builder which mixes 'foundation' and harder sessions. More interesting than just z2 all day and more structured than zwift racing everyday!
@@taichihead42 yep suits me well at this time of year. No guarantee of weather or daylight so in the garage and get my head down
@@taichihead42 you do you boo đ
The rollers definitely force more core engagement thatâs for sure.
Sounds great, The turbo and rollers are a great way of getting that training in even when it's chucking down đ
@@jakethesnake1976 Some people aren't happy. I like your response.
I have started putting more emphasis on winter strength training in the past years. It has helped me a ton in getting faster. If I monitor my heart rate during those types of sessions, I spend most of it in zone 2. Can I consider that a win-win?
There's a guy Wout Van Aert, fairly succesful... Makes it sound like he's not great, not terrible :D.
For me, I subscribe to Henderson's training philosophy over San MillĂĄn. Varied and balanced.
Do you find it's helps you keep things fresh đ
This is propaganda. All these "experts" are working for Wahoo, Zwift, etc. It's clear that they want to sell their product. Classic base training has had quite a revival in the past years and is the best method training VO2max. Just not sustainable on the rollers. So GCN won't advertise it.
Base training is all year round. Itâs best to do it outdoors always. I ride outdoors in even -20c. This Wahoo salesman is selling you Wahoo products. I have a Tacx trainer but know what riding outside is about. This video is pure trash.
All in all, results of San Milanâs athletes are âproof in puddingâ đJk
All those conversations about different types of training usually donât include a discussion around goal s of a particular individual.
Is that Professor Doctor Bridgewood standing in the glass cabinet behind Neil Henderson?
I tend to train kinda hard, woke up in the middle of the night last night with full leg cramps in both legs. Hurt so bad I was dizzy, drooling sweating and my stomach started hurting.
To share my own âevidenceâ from running.
I spent a year doing 95% base training. Low HR, easy running, & high volume. It DEFINITELY strengthened my kegs, but I lost all my speed⊠so I could literally run for 12-14 hours, but I couldnât perform better than just an âaverage paceâ & my overall average pace barely changed over the year (maybe 15s per km faster or so).
Now I donât do that at all⊠I include intense, focussed and specific sessions & I feel like itâs making a bigger difference.
The mix -for me anyway- is NB.
As a beer drinker, having a strong keg is important
if you do 'just one thing' you can get really good at doing that 'one thing'... thats the whole point of periodized training. But in a cycling context, getting in lots of time in the saddle in winter just means there's a better starting place to add intensity when it gets closer to racing or summer time hobby targets.
@slavelaboringkid7597 The science says otherwise, you will be going faster in Z2 at the same HR intensity after several weeks of training in that zone. You will have also built a mitochondrial capacity ready to be utilised by intense workload training ultimately increasing your top end.
Jeeze may be I am getting old but god almighty in heaven; that was a damn long and wordy answer. Techie people like; short, well organized, complete coverage and to the point. He sounds like a dame sales man. Frustrating because he has so much to offer.
Think Wout, Pidcock and Van der Poel have had issues this year. Pidcock saying he's tired as with Wout and Vdp having an off season. You do have to have rest and just ride. In northern Europe the roads aren't up to proper training. Also, if you put intensity in to workouts you can easily pick up colds and sickness. Intensity effects your immune system negatively
Great point! If the pros take breaks... so should you đ
I find really hard to put on Z2 training with that many hills around me in SĂŁo Paulo
true words!!
Was that Ollie in the background, mineral water perhaps đ€
Is base training a must if you only ride 5 hours in a week? Or can you better do Z2 training with a few high intensity efforts?
so ride more and ride harder to get faster?? who wouldve thought
I ride a ebike to get "base" miles outdoors. Keep intensity for indoors, then use ebike and long easy rides.
Sounds like a great idea đ
There is magic juice tho đ€Łđ€Łđš
As usual, it shows once again that in sport, for every article saying do this there's another saying don't. đ
Actually you can fire a canon off a canoe. That is how a duck punt used to work.
My training is Ride Your Bike. Then again, I'm not competing for anything.
I live in an area where it's -20 to -30f in the winter. We have ice all over the roads until marchish. I am jumping into the world of cycling and I am completely out of shape. Can I get trained up on a bike trainer during the cold months? Thanks
How long should you train each time in zone 2 base training? How many times a week recommended?
Look at the Inigo San Milan video. He recommends (per his lab research) that you do at least 4 hours per week of Z2 to increase mitochondria and aerobic capacity. You must do a minimum of 45 minutes per ride to see a benefit. Do 3 hours per week to maintain.
What is the next good thing when you canât do Zone 2 training?
I live in a hilly island, and quite simply, donât have flat zones to ride here.
Also, I donât have indoor equipment, so thatâs not an option. How can people that only have a bike and a hilly island do to do their base training?
Slow running, swimming, would be very good for base fitness, but you would still need to add "saddle time", so putting big cogs on the freewheel and ride uphill very slow but at a nice cadence, would be the key I guess.
I love the turbo or rollers, but some cyclists hate it.
Ok, I ordered the canoe but canât seem to find a cannon on Amazon. Any help?
HI ANYONE? Do You have a good stew recipe without onions? I mean good, not just without đ! Greets, best wishes