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Nero’s Few Good Deeds
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- čas přidán 28. 01. 2023
- This week Beau and Carl chat about the life and times of Imperial Rome’s fifth emperor, Nero. Nero became emperor young, and though his mother and tutors were able to keep him under control for a brief time, soon enough he became drunk with power, eventually becoming cruel and unusual in the extreme. By the end of his reign, literally no one was safe.
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One of his greatest achievements was making it possible to burn CD's quickly and easy.
I understood that reference.
Top comment
That was brilliant branding back then. NERO: burning ROM. I'm old enough to have used this program often.
@@napoleonfeanor I'm a history buff and I burned godless amounts of CD's and DVD's with that program. And I only now get the reference. D'oh!
Back when life was simple.
Are you telling me that Nero isn't a cute anime girl who even the other roman empires look up to?
Unfortunately not. I have no idea why they depicted Nero like that in Fate. Countless other emperors would’ve been more fitting.
The Julio-Claudian dynasty was really mental weren't they.
Lead in the fructum... If you liked Sweet wine....
Also unlimited power, and entitelt upbringing
Nah, they weren't as crazy as the Severan dynasty or as earth shatteringly awful as the Theodosian dynasty. Augustus, Tiberius and Claudius were all ether decent or excellent emperors.
If that first painting is an accurate representation then imagine him as the pudgy little eight year old being tormented. That for one can produce a wicked person. Imagine that person wielding the power that he possessed.
I knew an angry fat kid in school that was bullied all his life, he used to do some crazy shit like torture animals and set shit on fire, he eventually got expelled from HS for yanking a spike out of a nearby railroad and bringing it to school. Nothing happened, he claimed he just wanted to "scare people", but that dude was red flags galore. If he had just been handed the title of Emperor of the United States, we would all be screwed.
@@markzuckergecko621 I suspect it doesn't matter fat or skinny, demonic or not. No one should have that kind of absolute power. Then or now, Power Corrupts and we can rationalize anything these days...
@@MH-53E yea but it's definitely a lot worse when it's an angry fat kid who used to set things on fire just for fun.
Think of Vlad Tepes, aka Vlad the Impaler. He grew up as a hostage to the Turks and what people forget is that all the atrocities he became feared for were things he learned from them...
As said before about Caligula, accounts of cartoonishly evil emperors should be taken with a grain of salt. The thing he is most famous for fiddling when Rome burned is a myth. He was out of town and return early to help people. Nero was massively popular with the plebs and there are a ton of myths of him surviving and becoming a traveling musician( like he is a Roman Evlis or something).
He did take much of the land to build the Domus Aurea complex but I don't see it as a motive because the Roman government could always take away property. Why risk your own stuff getting burned?
I am really fascinated by the Domus Aurea because in a way Nero did become one of the most influential people in western art because what remained of his pet project influenced the big Italian renaissance artists. Inspiring the ''grotesque'' style which comes from the word for cave grotto.
CZcams keeps unsubscribing me from your account
Taken with a grain of salt but also some of them could be true with context. Nero might have been playing the lyre when Rome burned considering he was out of town and would have no clue it was happening.
@Zetact That last part is probably the source for the myth. It was an easy move for his existing detractors in Rome to attack him for his absence during that crisis. That sentiment was likely a popular refrain that "Caligula was enjoying [hedonistic act] while Rome burned," and it became a moment where popular propaganda turned into self-evident history. For an American example, like how Abraham Lincoln has essentially been remembered as "Honest Abe" despite being a cut-throat, corporate lawyer before politics and a scheming Machiavellian during his political career (although, that last part seems a waste of words as that can describe all politicians).
So what you're saying is.......
All bad Emperors of Rome were just misunderstood or slandered by jealous haters? In all seriousness though, there was likely motivation to make him out to be terrible but I have to figure that there is probably a lot of truth behind it. He became Emperor at a young age. At the best, he was likely incompetent even if the sources exaggerate his actions.
In Nero's time, the fires in Rome were generally attributed to "end of the world" Christian-types - Which is not really that far-fetched. The myth of him "fiddling" when Rome burned only came along after the Christians took over. A great deal of the history of the _cruelty_ of the Emperors comes from that period...
Imagine Alex of Clockwork Orange as PM. Which is precisely what the book implies. 🤔
The movie implies that. The actual ending of the book has one more Chapter where Alex becomes a worse thug than ever but as he turns 21 he is unfulfilled by his life he wants to create a family and is on the way to genuine reform. I believe the film's ending is more realistic though.
Kirk and Spock fooked Nero up.
I'm sorry... is that a different Nero?
JJTrek is crap.
wasnt nero that clownfish that was lost and they were trying to find him?
You are both right.
Nero looked and lived like a true neckbeard. Holy moly that double chin makes him goofy as hell. No wonder he was so cruel.
Looking forward to Carl's article/video on post-nut clarity
The one thing unforgiveabele al is he created the first European song contest?!!!
If anything, Nero proves that a nations people are willing to put up with all kinds of cruelty and debauchery, as long as their convenient lives are not disturbed. After all, what care the plebs if they don't even know what's going on?
Until you’re the one targeted by the madness.
One of my major takeaways from the last few years in politics is that we can't fully trust anything we think we know about history. We've seen narratives distorted, buried, and created out of thin air right in front of our faces, in the modern era where all the world's information is available in your hand at a moment's notice. How the hell can we trust anything from ancient history books, that were written by a hand selected, fallible group of people? For all we know Nero was actually a pretty cool dude that just wanted to make Rome great again, and the elites who had gotten rich through corruption and manipulation hated him because he threatened their way of life, so they weaponized the media machine against him.
The thing is, everything is centralized today in a way that just wasn't possible back then. The propaganda that we have today is so effective because of the technology we have. The Romans didn't have that, so the likelihood of every historian being ideologically captured isn't very high. Just because many people today are liars doesn't mean every single person before hand was. Honest and good people existed before and still exist today.
@@trajanfidelis1532 but it wouldn't be hard to find everything written that you didn't want to be heard, and bury it. How many historians could there have been back then? Especially when you hold all the cards. I get what you're saying, but it's also a lot harder for the powers that be to silence everyone now, since there are so many more voices. And don't underestimate people's gullibility, look at the way people are now. We haven't changed much. Now imagine that if there were only a handful of voices telling the Roman people how terrible Nero is, and how he's colluding with Russia. How many people would know any better? How would they know better?
A lot of historians looking back to construct a narrative have done cross-referencing with things like verified facts, such as legal documents or battles fought. They use that to build a skeleton of what is unmistakably true. And then they can add in what the historians say, what they agree on and what they go into digressions about. And then some historians will need to try and figure out what is true, what's probably propaganda, and what is likely semi-true.
Say for instance if you talk about Constantine, a very hot button figure because basically everything about him has been debated many times over.
It is undeniable that he marched into Rome to confront Maxentius, who he defeated in the Battle of the Milvian Bridge. It is recorded by historians that he converted to Christianity in this march and painted the shields of his men with the Chi-Rho. This is likely not entirely true - he probably would not have yet had an opportunity to paint his men's shields, because the story of painting the shields is something only mentioned in later accounts. Constantine COULD have been a Christian at that time, though.
Whether he converted during the march or, more likely, Helena raised him Christian (I think that with everything we know about Helena, this is the most plausible explanation for Constantine's Christianity). Or some people argue he wasn't Christian, but I don't think that those arguments hold water - Constantine was simply too pro-Christian for it simply to be a political move, especially considering at the time only about 10% of the empire was Christian. The Great Persecution, while an unpopular policy even among pagans and giving a greater sympathy for Christianity as a whole, Constantine could have used as a political tool by simply ending it and allowing Christians to integrate rather than going as heavy into Christianization as he did.
The purpose of me outlining this example is that while you can't trust everything about history and need to use a lot of interpolation and guesswork, using patterns of behavior, known facts and cross referencing the various different types of documentation let us build a fairly consistent and plausible picture.
@@Zetact_ depending on what happens between now and then, it might be a "known fact" that Trump was a Russian asset that was planted as an illegitimate President and supported by tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists. And all of us who know that's all bullshit will be dead and gone within a few decades, and all of our kids who we told will be dead and gone a few decades after that, and within a few centuries the real truth will be dead and gone.
And made sure no one remembered him fondly. It’s wild, how my views of history has changed since 2016.
Maybe some of the evil derives from being beaten but then also being told they have special qualities that make them better than other people and they deserve everything. So then they think, "well life is really frustrating, in spite of what I'm allgedly capable of. If I have to kill to get what I was promised, and that's easy, then I'll do it."
Regarding the people being like their family... my eldest son, 15 years old - he is SO like my uncle who died in 1986.
I'm having a big think about nature v nurture.
AY UP LOTUS EATERS
It's a good thing men go mad with desire when they're young... it's why we're still here.
We've lost our empire and everything is priced to move.🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
The only good thing about Nero is fate go and with that I bid the internet adieu.
You forgot to mention that he later reincarnated as Baron Greenback's pet caterpillar.
So much of the common image of Nero is fake news by the senatorial elite. He was really popular with the Roman people outside of the elite, he had many buildings built and was very adamant in creating building standards to prevvent big fires again. Much of the villa aurea was accessible to the public but it was technically the private building of Nero, which enraged the senatorial class because it was built on public land. He, like Caligula, basically made the new monarchical system explicit while many other emperors followed the ruling style of Augustus in which the institutions remain intact but get hollowed out more and more while still keeping procedure and prestige. He also was not following the behavioral codes of how the elite has to present itself publicly. He was a huge fan of Greece and spent a lot of time there and bringing more Greek stuff back to Rome. The biggest lies about him are about his alleged role in the burning of Rome and how he supposedly just fiddled and sang from outside of Rome looking at the flames. But he was far away at that time and came back quickly after hearing about it.
Wasn't there a correlation between violent behaviours and wide usage of lead utensil during that period?
Ha … just got an ad for Soylent Greens … sorry, “Athletic Greens” … glad somebody I support is getting some of their seemingly bottomless marketing budget.
Is there a way to subscribe to only Beau's content? I can' afford the whole thing (too many kids to feed), but man, I want to listen to this.
bronze sub is enough
Carl it's funny that you say, as I did too, they were both raised the same. If there is a proper time between kids just take a 30k look at how much your own life has changed in that time. I know we raised each kid a little differently. You may be more consistent. Also there is the other little person as an influence.
I wanna see Sargons Cats. Pictures please
What happens when you give a spoiled brat power.
Nope, Not everyone need's to be taught to be good. Once again Rousseau and Locke were both wrong on this and with all due respect Carl we do know enough about the human condition in the present as to why (yes Locke was much closer to how it is but not actually correct sorry). People like me have commented before on this very matter, I'm even tempted to go back dig it out and repost on this as a reminder of just that as I know explained it in clear straight forward terms at the time. You remind or how the ancient Greeks use to think, That all slaves are inherently liars and you need to torture them to make sure they tell they truth. This was also wrong headed obviously but the parallels are there with your premise on this.
With Nero in particular it's worth digging into the accounts of the interactions he had with his family and his mother more than anyone, she played a big role in moulding Nero into the monster he was. It's not obvious on the surface but when you get all the events down in place that were purported it starts to paint a very interesting picture. Lets put it this way, never trust a man who had killed his own mother and has no remorse about it. A switch flips when that happens and if are you already half gone by that point like he was that pushes a person over a moral and ethical edge where life become dispensable at will and we know all to well what happened to those who dared to defy Nero's will at all in way perceivable to him, quite an interesting theme with this one he was definitely the least mature out of all the emperors that were tyrannical.
Sometimes girls can get boys to do the silliest things to please them.
lead poisoning sends you nuts.
Lead poisoning is the reason they where all nuts.
Nero did nothing wrong, umu!
There's also more than a bit of inbreeding.
Well they didn't have Tinder back then, you probably knew about 20 women around your age, and 10 of them were ugos, and 5 of them were your cousins.
@Wary of Extremes dude they were all kiddy fiddlers. I don't think they had any moral qualms against cousin or sister fiddling.
@Wary of Extremes well yea, you don't have to have an extensive knowledge in genetics to observe that the guy with cousin-parents has a chin that looks like a deformed banana and his eyes are 1 inch apart, and the guy whose parents aren't cousins looks pretty normal. Knowing something is bad for you doesn't stop people, it didn't stop them back then, and it doesn't stop us now.
I have to disagree, I don't think there are people born evil. I think that's the lazy man's conclusion.
If anything there are people who require very specific parenting at a very specific time and in the event that moment is missed then you have those who you would otherwise claim helpless..
How do you place inborne psychological disorders in your world then? Known issues like Psychopaths and Sociopaths are proof we can have off placed births. I don't eliminate the accountability for environment on an end result but it is impractical to think it there was not a seed of evil to grow in the first place.
@@rallyfeind well I would disagree with the fact that they are inborn.
What I'm saying is we have it wrong in thinking these people were born as psychopaths.
It could very well be that there is a process that causes a defect which leads to a lack of empathy or none at all.
However I would think we would have less cases of psychopathy if it were a defect at birth.
And since we don't have less we have more my conclusion is that it may very well be environmental, in the event it is then there was something that causes it thus there is something that can undue it.
I could be wrong, but you seem to believe that this is factual when really this is a hypothesis that dates back 100 years ago.
@@rallyfeind more so if your willing to admit that these metal disorders are birth defects like I think your saying then you would also have to admit something went wrong in gestation. So what went wrong then? And how can it be made right?
That's my point when I disagree, I like the lotus eaters but I think they are wrong to just say "well some people are just like this" when we could legitimately find out by not saying that and then even better we could figure out how to prevent it.
@@nickwilson589 You aren't using any science then. You arguing that a birth defect is the fault of someone not just humans are flawed. The act of aging is a birth defect.
@@rallyfeind just what do you think science is if not hypothesizing and then looking for the facts to either prove or disprove?..
I never said it was the fault of anyone specifically when it comes to gestation. For all we know eating carbs makes someone born with a defect.
We don't know for a FACT that people are just born with psychopathy or the like, so again my argument is to say that that IS lazy to come to such a conclusion because there are still plenty other questions you could ask before that.
ya this! .. needed weekend history talk 🤔🤨👍