Can’t say I share your enthusiasm for the keyboard... I really hope they add the option to have a DM42-style display. Seems a shame to waste that lovely hi-res display. Looking forward to more of your thoughts on this...
Tim Danaher I don’t know that I’m enthusiastic... the number one question on the forums is easily “is the keyboard improved?” Is it an improvement over the initial DM42 units? Yes, I believe so. Is it at HP Pioneer levels? No. But it at least seems to register the key presses reliably. I hope to take a better look at it soon. It is different enough from the 42 that I’ll have to study it.
@@west Even the pioneer-models keyboards are a step back from the 41C-series. Although, reasonable good, the feel of my 42S-keyboard was a dissapointment after I had a 41CV.
The Enter key being situated on top of two buttons means that each can be felt leaning left and right on that button. I’m not a fan of the double click feeling this causes
I really like these blue alpha legends and wish my DM42 had that... or left them off entirely since the chances of me writing programs on the calc approach zero and the letters clutter up the face quite a lot.
Oh man, but writing neat little programs is one of the best parts of this calculator! Unless you mean you'll write them OFF the calculator and then just transfer them over...
@@west Yeah, my understanding is that you can share programs with desktop Free42. I really have not used calculator programs since high school though (good for my programming skill, bad for my math skills) but there are one or two I might use from time to time.
I wouldn't mind a "ultimate" calculator by swiss micros which isn't held back by attempting to emulate the calculators from the 1970s. The same high quality construction as these models, but with the functions afforded by modern electronics.
Yes. Enough of living in the past. Time to go forward. There is a WP-43S project trying to use the DM-42 hardware with extended functionalities but, judging from the current alpha software, there is still a lot of work to be done.
Ah but it would require a lot of work, and a lot of knowledge in numerical calculus. Here it just requires an emulator and the original code, to which some improvements were made. It's obvious he wants to capitalize as much as possible on this initial investment, doing something new is an entirely new level and I don't think it would pay off with limited series. For bigger series, the quality would have to increase dramatically, and with big names in the industry as competitors, plus the decreasing interest in RPN, I wouldn't bet on it.
@@no_fb Don't worry, you won't have to do any of the "hard work" yourself or "bet" your money on it. Nobody is expecting SwissMicro to write the operating system, only to provide the hardware/platform, the same way Raspberry Pi is doing it. Concretely, it means essentially no hardware change other than printing new labels on the keyboard. There is absolutely no decreased interest in RPN. Ask engineers and most of them will tell you that once you go RPN you never go back. As for the quality of SwissMicro products, you evidently never had one of their calculator in your hand : they are far superior to even what HP as ever sold in their most glorious days. There are no competitors. HP and TI are busy selling overpriced, flashy convoluted graphical calculators that appeal to teenagers and school board bureaucrats.
@@thorhilda You misunderstood and seem confused on the terms. I'm not talking about the OS, SM already wrote it and is shared between all their products. I'm talking about the numerical calculus library, should they create a innovative product (the WP-43S project you mention is a good testimony of the level of difficulty). Constructors like HP (which was about the only supported of RPN) are selling fewer RPN products than before, and made them mixed to keep selling them. All the students I had are using RPN less and less, now it's a curiosity for them, and the few people who still own an RPN are regarded as geeks (I mean, even more than before). So it's both an objective and subjective observation. I'm not talking about adoption once someone has gone past the threshold of trying it, again you seem confused on what I posted. The quality of HP products when it was made in the US, and a little after until the HP-48GX (that's what we're comparing here), was greater than anything else I've seen. I still own the 11, 41, 42, 48 I had and they're in perfect working conditions including the keyboard, my wife still has her 34 and still using it. In camparison SwissMicros have very bad keyboards with bad contacts and ill debouncing, the 42 is notorious for that. It's normal, since it's basically a 2-amateur project without much production experience, and with small batches you have to rely on distant, cheap factories. I have the DM42, the DM15 and DM15L, so I'm in some position to give an opinion (plus all the posts in their forums). So now that you see I'm not making this up, what is your experience with products from HP and SM? Your knowledge seems limited to recent HP products (if even that), which are less robust than before. Have a look at the HPmuseum forums, for instance, there are massive testimonies on the quality of HP products "in their most glorious days", you should really do your homework before trying to argue for a lost cause. Also, if they product were so bad, nobody would be nostalgic and buy SM's products.
@@no_fb >>> Your knowledge seems limited to recent HP products Wrong. I first used a TI-30 with red LEDs (maybe 1979?, I don't remember) that I replaced by a TI-21 (~1982) because the TI-30 went through 9 volt batteries too rapidly. The new LCD screen greatly improved the current consumption. I still have my TI-21 in working condition. Then I bought a solar powered Sharp EL-515S when it came out around 1986. I needed it for the hyperbolic functions that were missing on the T1-21. I still have it also, right beside the TI-21 on my bench. Then I bought my first HP, a HP-42S, in 1989. Etc. As for current HP products, I almost bought the HP-35, just for giggles. I don't own any of recent HP or TI products because of their gimmicky convoluted interfaces with weird restrictions to inhibit cheating at exams. For my purposes, they are not useful tools. I never said that HP RPN calculators of the 60s', 70's, 80's were of poor quality, only that there were far from the nostalgic idealised perfection they are remembered for. Remembering is not an act of recall, but of reconstruction. In 2020 we are able to do a lot better than in 1980, as demonstrated with the superb case and screen of the DM42. Yes, the keyboard of the first run of the DM42 were initially too stiff. Don't jump to the conclusion that HP of the past is unsurpassed and unsurpassable. Nostalgia has nothing to do with quality. A 2020 Honda is a far superior car than a luxurious 1969 Cadillac but the later reminds collectors of their youth. The past always seems prettier than the present because, in retrospect, all the uncertainties have vanished and have been dealt with. Living in the past is psychologically easier than tackling today's challenges. When yesterday seems like glorious victories and today seems like lost causes, it's not indicative of the current state of affairs but of your unwillingness to adapt. Maybe you're just getting too old. That's all. I am sure many slide ruler users were convinced, just like you today, that the electronic calculator is just a lost cause : too much effort and energy for what they, personally, were willing to invest in that future. People buy SwissMicro calculators because HP stopped making useful RPN calculators, not because nobody wants RPN calculators anymore. How do you explain the multiplication of RPN apps on Android and IPhone? HP is losing market shares because they didn't adapt to new technologies. They are fooling themselves that it suffice to ignore the concurrence of smartphones by making school calculators 'approved for exams'. The same thing happened when the electronic calculators appeared. Slide rule makers like Sun Hemmi and Faber Castell were initially successfully lobbying school to forbid electronic calculators because "it's cheating" and "not pedagogically sound". >>> you should really do your homework before trying to argue for a lost cause The current most likely scenario is not disappearance of RPN calculators but some multi platform open source projects similar to Free42 but without being dragged by nostalgia. Promise me one thing. When the next generation of advanced RPN calculators will be available, remember you were one of those curmudgeons that acted like inertia rather than a force toward progress.
Thank you for the review. Have you taken it apart yet? Are the keys dome based, or low profile microswitches? I am wondering if these keyboard changes will make their way into an updated DM42 model.
So yes I have taken it apart and it is a dome construction, my understanding is that they are different domes than was used on the first batch of DM42s. The keys themselves have also been re-designed, the hinges seem a little beefier to me and the keys are lower-profile. I think I honestly prefer my DM42 (after I did my key-flexing). It seems pretty responsive to me and "clickier". I would be very curious to see how it would perform with a metal faceplate though. That said, there are a number of people that seem to like the new keyboard design better.
Waiting for my DM42 to arrive in the mail, but something small that's bugging me looking at these portrait models is the giant swissmicros and model number font across the top. Maybe it won't be that annoying in person but it really doesn't fit with the design ethos of HP's and it's just distracting.
Your eye is probably going to stay down at the bottom of the screen near the X register so it's not distracting, but it's really an unusual feeling piece of hardware... best to keep in mind that it's a tribute to HP not a copy
Hi Logan, with eh DM41x and the DM42, which is the more capable machine, the DM41x seems to be the later model but of an earlier HP model. I know they are very similar in tech specs, but not sure why the 41 would be better than the 42? Thanks
The 41 had a lot of nostalgia for a lot of people, so people were begging for it to be released. The primary benefit of the 41 was a number of modules with pre-made programs that can be loaded. However, you can also load these programs on the 42. The DM42 is definitely more capable and it is undergoing development to essentially use the same hardware but completely re-done firmware that should have tons of features. If you don't have nostalgia for the 41, the 42 is the better pick.
@@west thank you, i don't have the nostalgia for the 41, I have a HP 12CP, I just got a 35S and today ordered a 30B, I've been aware of the Swiss Micros for a while but they are quite expensive so I am thinking of 1 but not both 😅
I do. So the 42 will be much, much faster. The DM41 was made to emulate the HP41. The 42 also has much more control over the firmware, so there is current development going on to improve it and add new features. The 42 in my opinion, was an improved design over the 41. The main benefit that the 41 has is the availability of modules that have lots of pre-programmed functions, and if you prefer to have your operators on the left. If you're already used to the 41, then that might be a draw but otherwise my unequivocal recommendation would be the 42. But even thought that's a strong opinion, it's still just mine :)
I have an HP41CV and a DM42. IMO, the DM42 is the ultimate calculator, small, sturdy, fast, and runs forever on a CR2032 battery. I love the menu buttons at the top and the large multi-row screen, something that Free42 on my phone/laptop does not have. It has far greater capability than the HP41 including a solver, numerical integration, complex numbers, matrices, base conversions, yet will run most hp41 software (except for synthetic functions). For algebra and graphing, you really are better off on a laptop running maxima, octave, python, etc.
I have a DM42 and am On the fence for getting this one also. Do you think this one is worth it? Im a civil engineering EIT and would like to have some programs to do simple beam checks for steel and wood.
In my opinion, the DM42 is the superior. The HP41 had some really devoted fans and there are some ROMs that can be dropped into it that have a lot of pre-made programs, but most of those programs can also be loaded on the 42 with just a little conversion, and with the amount of space the DM42 has, you should never run into any program limitation. I have both (the 41 was sent to me as a review copy) and I exclusively use the 42 for my engineering job. The 42 makes full use of the screen as well, whereas the DM41 tries really hard to be as much like the HP41 as possible. I know there is an open-source firmware in the works for the DM42 also, which should expand its operating system and capability. All told, unless you're a huge fan of the original HP41, I'd stick with the DM42 :)
It would be good that SwissMicros clarifies any change of the keyboard, it was a major failing point of the DM42 and this seems pretty much the same platform. I'm with a useless DM42, and I'm not eager to waste any more money on this. The DM1xL series was good, but the rest was very experimental.
Really reports are very positive for the production keyboard, and they are investigating the possibility of an upgrade mod kit for the 42 users. I’ve heard nothing negative on the new keyboard yet.
@@west Good to know, thanks for the info! Yeah, I think they tried to solve the 42 by software but it really requires a physical replacement, which is more complicated. I already got one long ago, because they had early production problems, but that didn't solve the problem either, it's a intrinsic component problem.
Can’t say I share your enthusiasm for the keyboard... I really hope they add the option to have a DM42-style display. Seems a shame to waste that lovely hi-res display. Looking forward to more of your thoughts on this...
Tim Danaher I don’t know that I’m enthusiastic... the number one question on the forums is easily “is the keyboard improved?” Is it an improvement over the initial DM42 units? Yes, I believe so. Is it at HP Pioneer levels? No. But it at least seems to register the key presses reliably.
I hope to take a better look at it soon. It is different enough from the 42 that I’ll have to study it.
@@west Even the pioneer-models keyboards are a step back from the 41C-series. Although, reasonable good, the feel of my 42S-keyboard was a dissapointment after I had a 41CV.
The Enter key being situated on top of two buttons means that each can be felt leaning left and right on that button. I’m not a fan of the double click feeling this causes
I really like these blue alpha legends and wish my DM42 had that... or left them off entirely since the chances of me writing programs on the calc approach zero and the letters clutter up the face quite a lot.
Oh man, but writing neat little programs is one of the best parts of this calculator! Unless you mean you'll write them OFF the calculator and then just transfer them over...
@@west Yeah, my understanding is that you can share programs with desktop Free42. I really have not used calculator programs since high school though (good for my programming skill, bad for my math skills) but there are one or two I might use from time to time.
I wouldn't mind a "ultimate" calculator by swiss micros which isn't held back by attempting to emulate the calculators from the 1970s. The same high quality construction as these models, but with the functions afforded by modern electronics.
Yes. Enough of living in the past. Time to go forward.
There is a WP-43S project trying to use the DM-42 hardware with extended functionalities but, judging from the current alpha software, there is still a lot of work to be done.
Ah but it would require a lot of work, and a lot of knowledge in numerical calculus. Here it just requires an emulator and the original code, to which some improvements were made. It's obvious he wants to capitalize as much as possible on this initial investment, doing something new is an entirely new level and I don't think it would pay off with limited series. For bigger series, the quality would have to increase dramatically, and with big names in the industry as competitors, plus the decreasing interest in RPN, I wouldn't bet on it.
@@no_fb Don't worry, you won't have to do any of the "hard work" yourself or "bet" your money on it.
Nobody is expecting SwissMicro to write the operating system, only to provide the hardware/platform, the same way Raspberry Pi is doing it. Concretely, it means essentially no hardware change other than printing new labels on the keyboard.
There is absolutely no decreased interest in RPN. Ask engineers and most of them will tell you that once you go RPN you never go back.
As for the quality of SwissMicro products, you evidently never had one of their calculator in your hand : they are far superior to even what HP as ever sold in their most glorious days.
There are no competitors. HP and TI are busy selling overpriced, flashy convoluted graphical calculators that appeal to teenagers and school board bureaucrats.
@@thorhilda You misunderstood and seem confused on the terms. I'm not talking about the OS, SM already wrote it and is shared between all their products. I'm talking about the numerical calculus library, should they create a innovative product (the WP-43S project you mention is a good testimony of the level of difficulty).
Constructors like HP (which was about the only supported of RPN) are selling fewer RPN products than before, and made them mixed to keep selling them. All the students I had are using RPN less and less, now it's a curiosity for them, and the few people who still own an RPN are regarded as geeks (I mean, even more than before). So it's both an objective and subjective observation. I'm not talking about adoption once someone has gone past the threshold of trying it, again you seem confused on what I posted.
The quality of HP products when it was made in the US, and a little after until the HP-48GX (that's what we're comparing here), was greater than anything else I've seen. I still own the 11, 41, 42, 48 I had and they're in perfect working conditions including the keyboard, my wife still has her 34 and still using it. In camparison SwissMicros have very bad keyboards with bad contacts and ill debouncing, the 42 is notorious for that. It's normal, since it's basically a 2-amateur project without much production experience, and with small batches you have to rely on distant, cheap factories. I have the DM42, the DM15 and DM15L, so I'm in some position to give an opinion (plus all the posts in their forums).
So now that you see I'm not making this up, what is your experience with products from HP and SM? Your knowledge seems limited to recent HP products (if even that), which are less robust than before. Have a look at the HPmuseum forums, for instance, there are massive testimonies on the quality of HP products "in their most glorious days", you should really do your homework before trying to argue for a lost cause. Also, if they product were so bad, nobody would be nostalgic and buy SM's products.
@@no_fb >>> Your knowledge seems limited to recent HP products
Wrong. I first used a TI-30 with red LEDs (maybe 1979?, I don't remember) that I replaced by a TI-21 (~1982) because the TI-30 went through 9 volt batteries too rapidly. The new LCD screen greatly improved the current consumption. I still have my TI-21 in working condition. Then I bought a solar powered Sharp EL-515S when it came out around 1986. I needed it for the hyperbolic functions that were missing on the T1-21. I still have it also, right beside the TI-21 on my bench. Then I bought my first HP, a HP-42S, in 1989. Etc.
As for current HP products, I almost bought the HP-35, just for giggles. I don't own any of recent HP or TI products because of their gimmicky convoluted interfaces with weird restrictions to inhibit cheating at exams. For my purposes, they are not useful tools.
I never said that HP RPN calculators of the 60s', 70's, 80's were of poor quality, only that there were far from the nostalgic idealised perfection they are remembered for. Remembering is not an act of recall, but of reconstruction. In 2020 we are able to do a lot better than in 1980, as demonstrated with the superb case and screen of the DM42. Yes, the keyboard of the first run of the DM42 were initially too stiff. Don't jump to the conclusion that HP of the past is unsurpassed and unsurpassable.
Nostalgia has nothing to do with quality. A 2020 Honda is a far superior car than a luxurious 1969 Cadillac but the later reminds collectors of their youth. The past always seems prettier than the present because, in retrospect, all the uncertainties have vanished and have been dealt with. Living in the past is psychologically easier than tackling today's challenges. When yesterday seems like glorious victories and today seems like lost causes, it's not indicative of the current state of affairs but of your unwillingness to adapt. Maybe you're just getting too old. That's all. I am sure many slide ruler users were convinced, just like you today, that the electronic calculator is just a lost cause : too much effort and energy for what they, personally, were willing to invest in that future.
People buy SwissMicro calculators because HP stopped making useful RPN calculators, not because nobody wants RPN calculators anymore. How do you explain the multiplication of RPN apps on Android and IPhone? HP is losing market shares because they didn't adapt to new technologies. They are fooling themselves that it suffice to ignore the concurrence of smartphones by making school calculators 'approved for exams'. The same thing happened when the electronic calculators appeared. Slide rule makers like Sun Hemmi and Faber Castell were initially successfully lobbying school to forbid electronic calculators because "it's cheating" and "not pedagogically sound".
>>> you should really do your homework before trying to argue for a lost cause
The current most likely scenario is not disappearance of RPN calculators but some multi platform open source projects similar to Free42 but without being dragged by nostalgia.
Promise me one thing. When the next generation of advanced RPN calculators will be available, remember you were one of those curmudgeons that acted like inertia rather than a force toward progress.
Thank you for the review. Have you taken it apart yet? Are the keys dome based, or low profile microswitches? I am wondering if these keyboard changes will make their way into an updated DM42 model.
So yes I have taken it apart and it is a dome construction, my understanding is that they are different domes than was used on the first batch of DM42s. The keys themselves have also been re-designed, the hinges seem a little beefier to me and the keys are lower-profile. I think I honestly prefer my DM42 (after I did my key-flexing). It seems pretty responsive to me and "clickier". I would be very curious to see how it would perform with a metal faceplate though. That said, there are a number of people that seem to like the new keyboard design better.
Waiting for my DM42 to arrive in the mail, but something small that's bugging me looking at these portrait models is the giant swissmicros and model number font across the top. Maybe it won't be that annoying in person but it really doesn't fit with the design ethos of HP's and it's just distracting.
Your eye is probably going to stay down at the bottom of the screen near the X register so it's not distracting, but it's really an unusual feeling piece of hardware... best to keep in mind that it's a tribute to HP not a copy
Got my DM42 and the text across the top doesn't bug.
Hi Logan, with eh DM41x and the DM42, which is the more capable machine, the DM41x seems to be the later model but of an earlier HP model. I know they are very similar in tech specs, but not sure why the 41 would be better than the 42? Thanks
The 41 had a lot of nostalgia for a lot of people, so people were begging for it to be released. The primary benefit of the 41 was a number of modules with pre-made programs that can be loaded. However, you can also load these programs on the 42. The DM42 is definitely more capable and it is undergoing development to essentially use the same hardware but completely re-done firmware that should have tons of features.
If you don't have nostalgia for the 41, the 42 is the better pick.
@@west thank you, i don't have the nostalgia for the 41, I have a HP 12CP, I just got a 35S and today ordered a 30B, I've been aware of the Swiss Micros for a while but they are quite expensive so I am thinking of 1 but not both 😅
@@apierc1 I understand! I ended up buying two DM42s (work and home) and use them almost daily. Great calculators.
Do you know much about the difference in capabilities between the DM41X and the DM42? I was eyeing a DM42, but now I'm wondering if I should wait.
I do. So the 42 will be much, much faster. The DM41 was made to emulate the HP41. The 42 also has much more control over the firmware, so there is current development going on to improve it and add new features. The 42 in my opinion, was an improved design over the 41.
The main benefit that the 41 has is the availability of modules that have lots of pre-programmed functions, and if you prefer to have your operators on the left. If you're already used to the 41, then that might be a draw but otherwise my unequivocal recommendation would be the 42. But even thought that's a strong opinion, it's still just mine :)
@@west Thanks for the insight
I have an HP41CV and a DM42. IMO, the DM42 is the ultimate calculator, small, sturdy, fast, and runs forever on a CR2032 battery. I love the menu buttons at the top and the large multi-row screen, something that Free42 on my phone/laptop does not have. It has far greater capability than the HP41 including a solver, numerical integration, complex numbers, matrices, base conversions, yet will run most hp41 software (except for synthetic functions). For algebra and graphing, you really are better off on a laptop running maxima, octave, python, etc.
@@dirtcooker5549 Great points.
So one would expect the 41x to be a bit cheaper?
I have a DM42 and am
On the fence for getting this one also. Do you think this one is worth it? Im a civil engineering EIT and would like to have some programs to do simple beam checks for steel and wood.
In my opinion, the DM42 is the superior. The HP41 had some really devoted fans and there are some ROMs that can be dropped into it that have a lot of pre-made programs, but most of those programs can also be loaded on the 42 with just a little conversion, and with the amount of space the DM42 has, you should never run into any program limitation. I have both (the 41 was sent to me as a review copy) and I exclusively use the 42 for my engineering job.
The 42 makes full use of the screen as well, whereas the DM41 tries really hard to be as much like the HP41 as possible. I know there is an open-source firmware in the works for the DM42 also, which should expand its operating system and capability. All told, unless you're a huge fan of the original HP41, I'd stick with the DM42 :)
@@west thank you sir. I will take your advice.
It would be good that SwissMicros clarifies any change of the keyboard, it was a major failing point of the DM42 and this seems pretty much the same platform. I'm with a useless DM42, and I'm not eager to waste any more money on this. The DM1xL series was good, but the rest was very experimental.
Really reports are very positive for the production keyboard, and they are investigating the possibility of an upgrade mod kit for the 42 users. I’ve heard nothing negative on the new keyboard yet.
@@west Good to know, thanks for the info! Yeah, I think they tried to solve the 42 by software but it really requires a physical replacement, which is more complicated. I already got one long ago, because they had early production problems, but that didn't solve the problem either, it's a intrinsic component problem.
will you be doing a fuller review?
King of Cotham yes I do hope to. It just might take a little to have time to really sit down with it.
@@west Any news about a full review yet?