Nice work. I've built 3 pairs of Paul's designs. Classix2, Speedster and Tarkus. He makes some fun designs that are easy to listen to. I listen to the Classix2 for 6 years now. I wanted to built the pit vipers but I have no room left for more big speakers.
I heard a set of these that Paul himself brought to InDIYana last year. Just like all of his speakers they are exactly as advertised. They sound big, loud, and accurate. Probably not the best choice for a small room, especially if space is limited. These will kill in a large area
sweet! I've thought about builing these in the past, but friends have asked me to build designs from Curt Campbell and GR research, and haven't had the time. Great to see that the response is smooth and to hear your impressions!
I made these and thought they were ok. The dc130 is quite a good IMO, as if the woofer, the tweeter I do not are for at all and don't think it was a great choice here. The midbass dip is mostly what I consider to be a result of inadequate data set for the filter design state. Paul's sim shows effectively opposite response in the 300hz region, with a difference of about 5db, quite a lot. It can be tough to get accurate information to work with in the lower band of a 3 way speaker so this different isn't that uncommon. You can fill it back in with EQ or change a few values on the stock xover which also gives better phase tracking between the woofer and mid. I also replaced the Peerless D27 with the Dayton nd25fw and found it to be a considerably better match in terms of on and off axis response, the xover needs modification for this but it is cheap. I'd love to see Paul utilize virtuixcad in the future, I think it would help him out a lot.
Perfect timing, I just got 2 10" Dayton designer woofer and they are monsters, I'm going to be using difference mids and tweeter and build my own design. I pulled of a 2 way with a Dayton 10" reference paper cone woofer. Which a lot of people said you can't build a 2 way with a 10" which was hard to pull off but it sounds amazing, so now I'm planning a 3 way. As far as imaging, you are 100% if you design and plan the crossover to cross before the drivers are beaming etc. They don't have a problem. I think you need a 10" or 12" woofer to really get that mid bass and hear those kick drums sound live. I sit and can't stop listening to all the new things I hear in songs that I have heard a million times. Unfortunately I haven't seen the Dayton reference 10" paper cone woofer on PE website, but I got an open box with a 25% on top of that off on a pair of Dayton designer 10" woofers with aluminum cones for a song. So it looks like I'm designing another speaker . The problem is I have 3 other projects I need to finish ahead of it , full time job and a relationship. Last time I picked the speakers over the girl. Let's see how the new one goes 😜.
You choose correctly!! Let me know how the build goes. 3-way is significantly more tricky to get right. Best of luck on the build! Thanks for watching.
@@DIYhyfy yeah I know, I have it layed out on xsim a couple of different ideas, it's going to take a lot of real world measurements. I was going to make my other a 3 but the money, it would have cost another $300 and it worked out great. But the next one hopefully will be better. But great job, that's an awesome speaker!!!
Nice build. I've heard DIY floor standing open baffle speakers taller than I am that image well with 15" woofers in an WMTMW configuration. They have a compression driver with 10" wavegiude that helps with imaging. I think large baffles can do very well if designed correctly. Also with what you experienced with the bass notes, perhaps having a larger woofer is more important for clean bass notes. If you think about it that 12" woofer only has to travel a couple millimeters to produce bass notes at a decent volume compared to say a 6.5" woofer that has to spend more time moving 3x that distance creating more distortion to make the same volume. Also your not driving an amplifier as hard with those more efficient larger woofers so that is less distortion again. For critical listening its those minor improvements that make some difference. I'm glad you hear such a great result with them.
"I sat down to test and listen to a couple songs, but the sound quality was so engaging I ended up listening to music for the next 2 hours" - says it all about the speakers! And you have discerning taste. So, making a note about these speakers. Using a 5 inch midrange instead of a 3 inch I think is what brings out the best in this speaker. I hate 2 way speaker designs. They always sound "thin" to me. If you are going to take the time to build something, build it right.I'm surprised about the plastic speaker housing though for the midrange. But it works apparently. cool build. I just would have gone for a darker (midnight) blue. lol But they still look decent and are at least not "black". But it's what the speakers sound like that matter.
Off centering drivers is a great idea. It wouldn't be tied directly to distortion. Distortion is a product of driver non-linearity. This is handled in the crossover. Off centering the drivers would help with surface reflections. These reflections create nulls & peaks in the frequency response. Tying it more to tonality. Thanks for watching!
@@DIYhyfy I think he was thinking of diffraction. But I am in the process of designing something similar, I am going to use MDF and then a 2" thick piece of maple for the baffle. That was with the 2" thickness I taper the top making it narrow with a 45° angle down to the woofer which I want to make wider. It's a little extra work and money, but I have been thinking about the best way. I was going to move them to the outside (t+w) and then I saw a pair like that and liked it. I have a pair of 2 way I designed with a 10" Dayton reference paper cone and I think that's the only woofer I found I could crossover at 1400 without breaking up and after hearing a 10" woofer you can't go back. It's the only way to listen to Aja
That sounds fun. Here in the US, prefabricated kitchen cabs are so cheaply built. It would be so much trouble the seal and brace. Was it for the kitchen, or just the cabinet itself?
@DIYhyfy They wanted an easy quick solution for the cabinet. So they went to Bunnings ( Home Depot) and picked up a couple of flat pack cabinet modules.. They weren't intended to be hifi just party. As far as I remember they used Motorola piezoelectric tweeters . Great for nite clubs.
Nice video. I've read about these on Tech Talk but seeing them in real life (is CZcams real life?) they look even more impressive. Paul sure knows how to do this speaker designing thing.
You have a good eye. Paul used 2.5" diameter. These are 2". I modeled the response to be sure there weren't huge issues. I couldn't for the life of me find 2.5" pipe.
Nice build! But it seems u wear protection all the time but still using fiberglass as damping? I would not want that in my house, that subwoofer will spread that fiber all over.
The jointing could be improved with miter lock jointing. Also cutting grooves in the cabinet to receive the internal bracing. It did however look like a solid build. I have thought at length about the external finish of a cabinet. With what people are doing in the car industry? I thought it might be bad ass to finish the cabinets in a rap.
very nice! i wish i could make my own boxes lol that crossover looks good however id drop that iron core out and wouldnt use those metal speaker connectors. and would prolly use tube connectors for the hookup...
Thanks for the watch! As for the inductor, I personally don't consider it a big deal, but would also prefer an air core. The problem is, large values (5mh) go out of stock very often. I needed to finish the build, so waiting wasn't an option unfortunately.
Looks outstanding. I've always wanted to build a 3-way "party speaker," like the ones I had in the 70's. What is the black material that was laminated to the sides, and why only the sides? How were the corners of the MDF sealed before painting? MDF is notorious for soaking up paint and preventing the creation of a smooth, shiny surface; yet you managed to give the corner paint the same quality surface as the rest of the cabinet.
Hi, the laminate is Formica. It's only used to cover joints. Hence it only needs to be used on the sides. (Assuming you've designed the joint to be on the sides only, like me). The primer is sandable rustoleum primer. I would recommend 2-part epoxy automotive primer for easier sanding, but it's more expensive in a rattle can.
Is the PVC midrange hood part of the original design? I’m guessing that its resonant frequency wouldn’t be excited by the mid driver, but would by the woofer, since they share the same larger cabinet. Have you noticed this to be the case? Either way, it’s a beautiful-looking speaker! I respect and envy the heck out of your rattle can skills!
Hey, I did wonder this myself. The inside of the pvc is damped with dacron, but the cap itself isn't damped apart from being rigidly mounted to the baffle. Paul Carmody used the same setup, so I just trusted his judgment. There's no audible resonance from it, that I can tell. Thanks for watching!
Considering the size of the PVC hood I would assume the resonant frequency is higher than the crossover point of the 12" woofer. On Paul Carmody's DIY speaker site, the frequency response of the woofer starts tapering off at 300hz. There might be some energy that excites it but probably very little to be audible.
Hey, sorry I forgot to mention it. Parts were around 400-500 all in, depending on the finish you choose. Based on the sound quality, I'd say they rival $2-5K finished speakers. Thanks for watching!
This is a huge misconception. Screws are totally fine to use. Generally in very high out subwoofers or PA applications where they'll be moved around a lot. In home audio, simply glue & clamps are plenty sufficient. The glue binds the mdf together very strongly.
@@DIYhyfy Thank you! I am generally a "glue and screw" guy when it comes to stuff like this, or at least brads. I figure if I'm going to build a cabinet and throw some expensive veneer on it, I prefer to have the extra insurance the joints won't come apart even a little. I'm a noob woodworker, so "belt and suspenders."
Hey, can't recall exact number on spl. Paul has most of the technical data in his write-up on his site. If you search "Paul Carmody Pit Vipers" it should come right up. As far as port noise, none so far at any level. I modeled the response myself since I actually changed the port diameter. Air velocity was a bit higher than the rule of thumb, but not bad enough to be audible in any listening I've done so far.
@@DIYhyfy Fair Call, wasn't aware this was a budget build, Why not the Dayton Planar Air motion tweeters? Would go with the rest of the Dayton hardware!
It would be perfect if the video contained the sound that these speakers are capable of producing. Right now, it's a bit like showing a picture to a blind person... 🙂
@@Pierre-Leloup Yeah, it's not impossible to get semi-realistic sound from a set of speakers on a CZcams video... but it's really hard, and not cheap. I've tried several microphones and different ways of doing it and they all just sound off. I sometimes do it anyway just to have something to demo, but it's a loosing battle unless you are really set up to do this and know what you're doing.
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 Well go listen to what some very good channels can do like "Sound Sommelier" (I don't know what's his setup to record) or even better "HiFi Immersion" channel, they do recordings of really Hi-End setups using a pair of expensive microphones: DPA-4011 & Zoom F8n Pro. I'm not at the same level as these guy's but using a very good pair of SE Electronics SE8 microphones and a Zoom H6, you can do very good recordings without spending much money. You can listen to them on my 2 latest recordings on my very little channel. Source is even worse as it is from CZcams itself ;-)
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 Wouldn't you need an identical setup to have an "honest" reproduction of sound? You can't recreate the performance of a Corvette in a Camry. Sadly, I own a Camry. Great car, just not a Corvette.
@@DIYhyfy they are magic! I put a set of Oreas under my Focal solo 6 four years ago and haven’t touch them since! absolutely incredible! You could try these.
Nice work.
I've built 3 pairs of Paul's designs. Classix2, Speedster and Tarkus. He makes some fun designs that are easy to listen to. I listen to the Classix2 for 6 years now. I wanted to built the pit vipers but I have no room left for more big speakers.
LOVE this build nice work!❤
The measurements looked nice. Thanks for including them in the video!
Wow they look fantastic!
Great video bro, was keen to hear someone's input on these speakers
I heard a set of these that Paul himself brought to InDIYana last year. Just like all of his speakers they are exactly as advertised. They sound big, loud, and accurate. Probably not the best choice for a small room, especially if space is limited. These will kill in a large area
sweet! I've thought about builing these in the past, but friends have asked me to build designs from Curt Campbell and GR research, and haven't had the time. Great to see that the response is smooth and to hear your impressions!
I made these and thought they were ok. The dc130 is quite a good IMO, as if the woofer, the tweeter I do not are for at all and don't think it was a great choice here. The midbass dip is mostly what I consider to be a result of inadequate data set for the filter design state. Paul's sim shows effectively opposite response in the 300hz region, with a difference of about 5db, quite a lot. It can be tough to get accurate information to work with in the lower band of a 3 way speaker so this different isn't that uncommon. You can fill it back in with EQ or change a few values on the stock xover which also gives better phase tracking between the woofer and mid. I also replaced the Peerless D27 with the Dayton nd25fw and found it to be a considerably better match in terms of on and off axis response, the xover needs modification for this but it is cheap. I'd love to see Paul utilize virtuixcad in the future, I think it would help him out a lot.
Fantastic. Hope I get a chance to build these someday. Love the look, I'm going with a different color. 😉
Perfect timing, I just got 2 10" Dayton designer woofer and they are monsters, I'm going to be using difference mids and tweeter and build my own design. I pulled of a 2 way with a Dayton 10" reference paper cone woofer. Which a lot of people said you can't build a 2 way with a 10" which was hard to pull off but it sounds amazing, so now I'm planning a 3 way. As far as imaging, you are 100% if you design and plan the crossover to cross before the drivers are beaming etc. They don't have a problem. I think you need a 10" or 12" woofer to really get that mid bass and hear those kick drums sound live. I sit and can't stop listening to all the new things I hear in songs that I have heard a million times. Unfortunately I haven't seen the Dayton reference 10" paper cone woofer on PE website, but I got an open box with a 25% on top of that off on a pair of Dayton designer 10" woofers with aluminum cones for a song. So it looks like I'm designing another speaker . The problem is I have 3 other projects I need to finish ahead of it , full time job and a relationship. Last time I picked the speakers over the girl. Let's see how the new one goes 😜.
You choose correctly!!
Let me know how the build goes. 3-way is significantly more tricky to get right. Best of luck on the build! Thanks for watching.
@@DIYhyfy yeah I know, I have it layed out on xsim a couple of different ideas, it's going to take a lot of real world measurements. I was going to make my other a 3 but the money, it would have cost another $300 and it worked out great. But the next one hopefully will be better. But great job, that's an awesome speaker!!!
Nice build. I've heard DIY floor standing open baffle speakers taller than I am that image well with 15" woofers in an WMTMW configuration. They have a compression driver with 10" wavegiude that helps with imaging. I think large baffles can do very well if designed correctly. Also with what you experienced with the bass notes, perhaps having a larger woofer is more important for clean bass notes. If you think about it that 12" woofer only has to travel a couple millimeters to produce bass notes at a decent volume compared to say a 6.5" woofer that has to spend more time moving 3x that distance creating more distortion to make the same volume. Also your not driving an amplifier as hard with those more efficient larger woofers so that is less distortion again. For critical listening its those minor improvements that make some difference. I'm glad you hear such a great result with them.
Absolutely superb video! Thanks for sharing your build with us! Cool color, too!
"I sat down to test and listen to a couple songs, but the sound quality was so engaging I ended up listening to music for the next 2 hours" - says it all about the speakers! And you have discerning taste. So, making a note about these speakers. Using a 5 inch midrange instead of a 3 inch I think is what brings out the best in this speaker. I hate 2 way speaker designs. They always sound "thin" to me. If you are going to take the time to build something, build it right.I'm surprised about the plastic speaker housing though for the midrange. But it works apparently. cool build. I just would have gone for a darker (midnight) blue. lol But they still look decent and are at least not "black". But it's what the speakers sound like that matter.
Off-center the tweeters and mids helps in theory to avoid distortion. Great work!
Off centering drivers is a great idea. It wouldn't be tied directly to distortion. Distortion is a product of driver non-linearity. This is handled in the crossover.
Off centering the drivers would help with surface reflections. These reflections create nulls & peaks in the frequency response. Tying it more to tonality.
Thanks for watching!
@@DIYhyfy You are right! with surface reflections ;) Love you work, I'm a Speaker DIY'er myself.
@@DIYhyfy I think he was thinking of diffraction. But I am in the process of designing something similar, I am going to use MDF and then a 2" thick piece of maple for the baffle. That was with the 2" thickness I taper the top making it narrow with a 45° angle down to the woofer which I want to make wider. It's a little extra work and money, but I have been thinking about the best way. I was going to move them to the outside (t+w) and then I saw a pair like that and liked it. I have a pair of 2 way I designed with a 10" Dayton reference paper cone and I think that's the only woofer I found I could crossover at 1400 without breaking up and after hearing a 10" woofer you can't go back. It's the only way to listen to Aja
Looks interesting, in a magazine in Australia some years ago a party speaker was built using Kaboodle kitchen cabinet kits.
That sounds fun. Here in the US, prefabricated kitchen cabs are so cheaply built. It would be so much trouble the seal and brace. Was it for the kitchen, or just the cabinet itself?
@DIYhyfy They wanted an easy quick solution for the cabinet. So they went to Bunnings ( Home Depot) and picked up a couple of flat pack cabinet modules..
They weren't intended to be hifi just party. As far as I remember they used Motorola piezoelectric tweeters .
Great for nite clubs.
Nice video. I've read about these on Tech Talk but seeing them in real life (is CZcams real life?) they look even more impressive. Paul sure knows how to do this speaker designing thing.
Tom!
Who am I? What am I? Where am I?
Not sure, but these do sound REAL good! Much better than expected.
Freehand Titebond butt joints, courageous. They came out great, great video, thanks.
I like to live on the edge! Lol
Best editing ever! 🔥
Those are pretty sweet. Nice work!
Thanks!
@@DIYhyfy you're welcome!
Why aren't there any 3-way kits with 8" or 10" woofers? The 6" Swans are the largest I can find.
Very nice build. The ports seem tiny for that woofer but I trust you there's no chuffing.
You have a good eye. Paul used 2.5" diameter. These are 2". I modeled the response to be sure there weren't huge issues. I couldn't for the life of me find 2.5" pipe.
@@DIYhyfy Yeah, most stuff is 2". Even rolls of stretch come on 2" tubes.
nice build, thank you
Thank you for watching!
Nice build! But it seems u wear protection all the time but still using fiberglass as damping? I would not want that in my house, that subwoofer will spread that fiber all over.
Freakishly friable
It's a definite possibility, but these will be run at low output levels. Not a ton of air moving around
@@DIYhyfy Yes, but still a bad choice for dampening,
Thumb of steel.
The jointing could be improved with miter lock jointing. Also cutting grooves in the cabinet to receive the internal bracing. It did however look like a solid build.
I have thought at length about the external finish of a cabinet.
With what people are doing in the car industry? I thought it might be bad ass to finish the cabinets in a rap.
I've wondered about doing a wrap. I just don't have experience with it. Seems like it would be tough to do seamlessly.
well, I can say.. its a great tweeter!
very nice! i wish i could make my own boxes lol that crossover looks good however id drop that iron core out and wouldnt use those metal speaker connectors. and would prolly use tube connectors for the hookup...
Thanks for the watch!
As for the inductor, I personally don't consider it a big deal, but would also prefer an air core. The problem is, large values (5mh) go out of stock very often. I needed to finish the build, so waiting wasn't an option unfortunately.
Looks outstanding. I've always wanted to build a 3-way "party speaker," like the ones I had in the 70's. What is the black material that was laminated to the sides, and why only the sides? How were the corners of the MDF sealed before painting? MDF is notorious for soaking up paint and preventing the creation of a smooth, shiny surface; yet you managed to give the corner paint the same quality surface as the rest of the cabinet.
Hi, the laminate is Formica. It's only used to cover joints. Hence it only needs to be used on the sides. (Assuming you've designed the joint to be on the sides only, like me).
The primer is sandable rustoleum primer. I would recommend 2-part epoxy automotive primer for easier sanding, but it's more expensive in a rattle can.
Nice!!
Hope you made two of everything!
As someone with little to no space limitations, they look like the perfect speaker. Well done!
Indeed, they're a pair
Was that an "audiophile" hammer you used to drive in the terminal posts?
Lololol yes. I like my posts SNUG!
is there somewhere to buy this as a kit? on pauls website the link doesnt work.
Hi, unfortunately the business that sold this kit closed their doors a while back. I purchased the parts individually from Parts Express
Is the PVC midrange hood part of the original design? I’m guessing that its resonant frequency wouldn’t be excited by the mid driver, but would by the woofer, since they share the same larger cabinet. Have you noticed this to be the case?
Either way, it’s a beautiful-looking speaker! I respect and envy the heck out of your rattle can skills!
Hey, I did wonder this myself. The inside of the pvc is damped with dacron, but the cap itself isn't damped apart from being rigidly mounted to the baffle. Paul Carmody used the same setup, so I just trusted his judgment. There's no audible resonance from it, that I can tell.
Thanks for watching!
Considering the size of the PVC hood I would assume the resonant frequency is higher than the crossover point of the 12" woofer. On Paul Carmody's DIY speaker site, the frequency response of the woofer starts tapering off at 300hz. There might be some energy that excites it but probably very little to be audible.
I didn't hear what the cost was for parts from parts express or home depot. I'm very interested in making a set. Like your presentation style!
Hey, sorry I forgot to mention it. Parts were around 400-500 all in, depending on the finish you choose. Based on the sound quality, I'd say they rival $2-5K finished speakers.
Thanks for watching!
@@DIYhyfy Oh wow. That is an unbelievable value. That's going to be my summer speaker project. Thanks!!
Great video! One question... Is it not recommended to also screw the panels together? Will the vibrations back out the screws?
This is a huge misconception. Screws are totally fine to use. Generally in very high out subwoofers or PA applications where they'll be moved around a lot.
In home audio, simply glue & clamps are plenty sufficient. The glue binds the mdf together very strongly.
@@DIYhyfy Thank you! I am generally a "glue and screw" guy when it comes to stuff like this, or at least brads. I figure if I'm going to build a cabinet and throw some expensive veneer on it, I prefer to have the extra insurance the joints won't come apart even a little. I'm a noob woodworker, so "belt and suspenders."
Whats the max spl? Is there port noise on high volume?
Hey, can't recall exact number on spl. Paul has most of the technical data in his write-up on his site. If you search "Paul Carmody Pit Vipers" it should come right up.
As far as port noise, none so far at any level. I modeled the response myself since I actually changed the port diameter. Air velocity was a bit higher than the rule of thumb, but not bad enough to be audible in any listening I've done so far.
can u use dynamat or something similar on the inside for sound deadening? instead of polyfill or the fiberglass?
Hi, damping and bracing are 2 different issues. Polyfill & insulation break up standing waves. Bracing reduces panel resonances.
Regarding the color, these can be hidden away easily in any swimming pool 😊
Lol
Why not a planar or ribbon type tweeter!?
This kit was relatively "affordable" around $400-500. A decent pair of ribbons cost that alone
@@DIYhyfy Fair Call, wasn't aware this was a budget build, Why not the Dayton Planar Air motion tweeters? Would go with the rest of the Dayton hardware!
to bad meniscus audio has permanently closed.
Yes, it sucks
Won't that insulation blow out of thenports???
It technically possible, but unlikely at the output levels they'll be used at. The designer used the sane material as well
Why are you playing your mic like a flute? :)
It would be perfect if the video contained the sound that these speakers are capable of producing. Right now, it's a bit like showing a picture to a blind person... 🙂
It's not technically possible to demonstrate the real sound through CZcams. You would be listening to my room & the speakers. Not simply the speakers.
@@DIYhyfy That's a myth. With a pair of good microfones at arround 1m distance, you can have a pretty good idea of how it sounds ;-)
@@Pierre-Leloup Yeah, it's not impossible to get semi-realistic sound from a set of speakers on a CZcams video... but it's really hard, and not cheap. I've tried several microphones and different ways of doing it and they all just sound off. I sometimes do it anyway just to have something to demo, but it's a loosing battle unless you are really set up to do this and know what you're doing.
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 Well go listen to what some very good channels can do like "Sound Sommelier" (I don't know what's his setup to record) or even better "HiFi Immersion" channel, they do recordings of really Hi-End setups using a pair of expensive microphones: DPA-4011 & Zoom F8n Pro. I'm not at the same level as these guy's but using a very good pair of SE Electronics SE8 microphones and a Zoom H6, you can do very good recordings without spending much money. You can listen to them on my 2 latest recordings on my very little channel. Source is even worse as it is from CZcams itself ;-)
@@zarboaudioprojects1430 Wouldn't you need an identical setup to have an "honest" reproduction of sound? You can't recreate the performance of a Corvette in a Camry. Sadly, I own a Camry. Great car, just not a Corvette.
IsoAccoustics Gaia III’s
I had feet coming for them. Wound up finishing the edit before they showed up. The Gaias look pretty pricey!
@@DIYhyfy they are magic! I put a set of Oreas under my Focal solo 6 four years ago and haven’t touch them since! absolutely incredible! You could try these.