A great video, as always, but I would add two things: First, nitrated filter paper is superior to thin papers (cigarettes, etc.) because it is much more durable if you're going to do anything other than locking the cartridges in plastic boxes (especially if you're going to use Civil War ammunition pouches, etc.). I also find it far less finicky to form--the thin paper crushes and crumples much too easily. And frankly, nitrating coffee filters is so incredibly easy to do there's just no reason not to if you're going to the trouble of making combustible cartridges in the first place. Second, as to lubing, dipping the bullets in grease is faster and far less messy than using grease over the chambers, especially when people use things like Crisco or Bore Butter which just melt out without doing any good as soon as the revolver gets hot. Just make sure not to let the grease go down past the bullet to where it can contaminate the powder if you're going to store it for a long time--just dip the exposed part of the bullet.
In the video I saw using the Manley paper cartridge former (RIP good sir. You are missed) the "lubricant" used was melted paraffin wax. Dip the formed cartridge into a bowl of melted wax up to where the edge of the paper is, and no further. I started making a bunch of cartridges (never finished them because I'm lazy and the friend whose house I was doing it at sold it and moved out of state) and have the wax to use, but never finished the few cartridges I started.
@@blacksheep_edge1412 The grease used during the Civil War, according to the Federal and Confederate ordnance manuals, was a mixture of beeswax and tallow. The proportions varied from 8:1 to 3:1, but that's what I use most of the time. But when I run out of tallow, I use a 1:1 mix of beeswax to olive oil, except when it's really hot, when I use more beeswax to make it stiffer. Both recipes work perfectly.
@@Schlachtschule Nothing wrong with that. I was just saying for casual shooters/hobbyists paraffin wax works. Someday in the future I will have to try your way as well.
@@blacksheep_edge1412 I wasn't criticizing paraffin, I've never used it. I will say it's no harder to get paraffin than it is to get beeswax and olive oil, but there are lots of ways to skin a cat! It's interesting to me that I never see paraffin mentioned in any of the period sources I've looked at, but I don't know why that is.
@@Schlachtschule I wasn't criticizing so if I came across that way I apologize. Paraffin isn't period AFAIK. It's a more modern wax mix, like carnauba wax. But it is readily available in hobby stores that cater to a wide range of non-shooting hobbies (think Michael's or Hobby Lobby as examples). Paraffin is also rather inexpensive. I paid like $25 for a 10 lb "sheet" of the stuff (but then again I also used a 40% off coupon so I actually paid closer to $10 at Hobby Lobby). Beeswax is also freely available in the same places. Having never sourced Tallow I can't speak to how easy or difficult it is to source. One other benefit of parafin is you can use it to flux your lead when casting your own conicals. And with the Manley former you need a touch of wax to lube the dowel when working on making your cartridges. So I am getting a lot of use out of that one sheet of wax. Still have over 9.5 lbs left too, seeing as I have yet to actually lube my finished cartridges with it.
For my cartridges I have learned that most of the paper that’s left after firing is where glue had been applied during construction. To mitigate this problem I have started using dextrin glue (corn starch that’s baked and then added to water) it acts as a good binder while being combustible enough for this purpose. Thank you for awesome video!
I only use round balls in my Pietta New Model Army. I make my paper cartridges using Dustin's kit and it works very well. I find that people overthink what is quite simple. I never owned my own BP revolver until I did exhaustive research and Dustin's channel was one key factor in helping me with my research and solidifying my choice on my first purchase. Mike's channel was and continues to be a great resource as well. When I make my next batch of paper cartridges, I'll be using Dustin's kit, but trying different paper this time.
I am so glad someone finally said use the proper cap size. I see alot of vids stating to just squeeze a #11 cap to fit a #10 cone. A properly sized and seated ball will not chainfire. With the exception of having a bubble in a cast ball. I say this so people will read it. I'm not yelling. MOST CHAINFIRES OCCUR AT THE REAR OF THE CHAMBER. At the nipples. Maybe I am talking a little loud. Great vid and thank you Dustin, for making factual vidios.
I bought one of your paper cartridge tool kits for .44 and .36. had excellent luck with them using RB. Will be picking up moulds soon for the proper bullets. Thanks!
Watched a video on the paper cartridge kit and immediately ordered it. Made about 30 cartridges up and the next day went to the firing range to try them out. Makes loading faster. Thinking about buying another kit to cut it the paper guide down to try it in a cigarette roller to roll the papers faster.
Got to use the ones I made over the weekend - OMFG! - it was so freaking fast, easy and convenient versus pouring each chamber by hand, never mind the lack of mess due to not having to mess with lube due to me dipping them at home. As for whether or not to nitrate, I was checking the chambers before reloading and only found a small scrap of paper once after running through thirty rounds, so I'm going to say it isn't necessary with cigarette paper.
Just got my .36 cal cartridge former. Made up my first 5 rounds using round balls, tissue paper for gift bags and Pyrodex P... just gotta make up some caps with the Prime All kit and I’ll be on my way! Fellow Utahn... I saw you at a sportsman’s once, but didn’t want to approach you to not weird you out.
Rather than nitrating the paper, you can use flash paper which leaves no residue whatsoever. Not exactly period correct, but it works and keeps the chambers cleaner.
@@eldonjanzen9822 nope, you are wrong. Flash paper you can make if to the nitrate add the solfuric acid. the behavior of nitrate paper and flash paper are completely different: nitrate burn slowly and incrementing the speed with higg temperature and remains a lot of dust, the flash paper is just flash, it means burns immediately and remains not dust, litterally nothing. BUT,nitrate paper is stable after some year, the flash paper is much more instable and can self ignites with a spark or less.
Cool video! I do have a question. Have you considered doing an up to date video on making your own percussion caps. I started making my own when factory caps dried up completely in my area. There are several ways to do it from cap gun cap compound scavenging to priming compound kits. I personally haven’t gone back to factory caps now that I make my own.
Thank you for answering all these questions it is so helpful I really enjoy your videos as a matter of fact I purchased one of your kits for my 44 caliber and thank you so much I watch your videos all the time they're very helpful
I'm one of the guys that uses hair curling paper to form the cartridge. It works quite well. That hair curling paper is super thin yet quite strong and there is no problem with tearing at all. I had to order it on line because the hair salons don't carry them anymore. If you want to try them make sure you get the Jumbo sized papers and you can cut them in half and make two cartridges from one paper. The actual size is 4" x 2.5".
I’m just starting to get into black powder (been avoiding that ‘rabbit hole’ for years). I love your videos and you continue to answer questions, sometimes, before I even I think to ask them!
Nice coverage of the subject. 👍I do wish to add a couple of things from personal experience. The glue used definitely makes a difference. My first effort I used Elmer's. Everywhere the glue was used failed to burn any. One cylinderful and I had to take time out to remove what remained (a lot). My next effort used Duco cement. I thought that since it's used on brass shotshells to keep everything in, maybe it would work with paper.......NOPE. Same results. Success came when I used that mucelage glue that's used on cigarette papers. Since, I've switched to the school stick glue. Works fine. I still use cigarette papers. They are mildly nitrated and seem to burn up better than heavier coffee filters. They are just a bit more delicate than the coffee filter papers, but not enough more to make any real difference. One other thing I've noticed. The paper cartridge needs a slight taper - not for ease of loading, although that's a benefit. Rather so the end of the paper cartridge will "pop" on seating. Without a taper, which allows the cartridge to pop open at the end of seating, you will experience hang fire. Found this out when making straight cartridges (attempting to maximize loading). Slow to load, and usually don't pop open. Hang fire most of the time. Sometimes barely, sometimes long enough to worry, but noticeable. Tapered cartridges don't do that. So, yes, the caps will burn through the paper, but without the taper on thecartridges, how quickly that happens can be an issue. Again, good video. 👍
If you can't get black powder. make it. It is so very easy and the materials are cheap. beyond that it feels nice to be a little more self sufficient and know exactly what goes into the powder. stay safe.
Great video! Answers ever question I have ever had regarding paper cartridges. Can’t wait to fire the cartridges I made today using the kit I purchased from you last week. Thank you for all you do in your videos. Educational and entertaining.
Great video Dustin. Am having a great time using your paper cartridge kit. They worked great in my original 51 Navy and my original first model Dragoon. its really cool to shoot these revolvers like they were originally. Keep up the great work
@@gonzalofeziwig6997 you use the original cylinder. You don't need anything special. the paper just makes it easier and faster to load. This is mostly how revolvers were loaded during the Civil War. The percussion caps ignites the papers as well. The gun acts just like it normally would without paper cartridges. You can also nitride the paper. By soaking it in potassium nitrate and water taking it out and letting it dry. burns up completely. But it's not necessary if you use cigarette paper. Cheers. I hope this helps.
getting my first B&C revolver, I'm settling towards the Remington because of the solid frame but I really like the look of the cult... They don't make it easy on us new guys.
@Guns Of The West Thanks for all the videos. Very helpful for a someone new to black powder. Just made up 50 36cal paper carriages using round balls with your kit. Cant wait to shoot them. As I was dipping them in lube it occurred to me the lube will scrape off when I seat the ball. Does the lube for a round ball really help? Conicals have grease rings so that makes sense. Happy shooting.
I use Pyrodex pellets and I put for cut-out pieces of parchment paper or sometimes I'll punch out the perfect sized circles on a plate and use them as a divider as well and they never affect the Pyrodex pellets or the paper they seem to work months after I make them haven't had any fail at all and sometimes haven't used them in over 6 to 7 months
Don't use blackpower substitute. It uses potassium chlorate in steed of potassiumnitrate. My experience it creates a residue in the barrel and its extra work to clean the barrel. It easy to make gunpower. I used my home made gunpowder all the time.
Thank you for the informative video! Diving deeper and deeper into black powder shooting and paper cartridges are next on the project list! These were all questions lingering in my head! Subscribed and will be watching more!
Three comments: > If you have children, spend time teaching them to make the paper cartridges. My ten year old made 60 good cartridges the first night we had our kit and it's always great parenting time spent hanging out doing useful hobby stuff. > I can't shoot right now because of the AZ fires and because our local range only allows certain club members to use their black powder range. (Thassum 🐂 💩.) > I want to make twenty-five grain roundball cartridges for my .36 colts for hunting jackalopes. (The big ones shoot back in AZ if you don't put 'em down quick.) I need a longer kit. 😬
Great video as always I think you should make a video about cap and ball revolver myths vs reality. And also do a video about some of the 19th century American made firearms that you think were some of the best and worse. Either cap and ball or cartridge revolvers and types of rifles that were made by various gun manufacturers in America.
@@GunsOfTheWest no problem. Thank you for what you do! I’m so excited I can barely help myself, I just made a lube mix for dipping my paper cartridges of 2:1 beeswax / olive oil. Holds up great
I use Pyrodex in my 1851 Navy and Pietta recommends a smaller powder load for Pyrodex. How is the cartridge affected if the powder load is reduced? Thanks for the wonderful kit!
If you’re using the built-in powder measure in my kit, you can fill it with either Pyrodex or black powder. The charge is safe for both. Here’s a direct link to the kits: gunsoftheweststore.com/collections/complete-paper-cartridge-kits Thanks for watching!
Wish I'd waited till you came out with your kits to get mine. It's way nicer than what I bought. I'd like see a comparison between pyrodex ,777 and goex for accuracy
I used a crimper to make #11 caps fit, I got 200 of em and idk if they are safe 😭😅 they might be, i think it’s a maybe, I’m fairly sure of myself. But as my pops used to say “ you don’t never know”
I am using the Paper Cartridge Kit that I ordered from you and it is so fun to make those cartridges now. I even bought more cigarett rolling papers, four with 100 pieces each, so I am thinking of making about 400 cartridges, maybe. What size of cap should I use for my Remington 44 1858. I have used 1075 and I have an unopened box with the size 1075 Plus. What size of cap do you recommend? I had to squeeze the caps for the first box sometimes for the caps to keep in place. I say it again, I love your great videos and thanks again for the Paper Cartridge Kit.
i love your work my friend , i use cigarette papers and i think the chambers taper actually causes the cap end of the paper cartridge to rupture as you seat the ball , i noticed using a too small ball once and tapping the paper cartridge back out onto the bench from the cylinder that the cap end was ruptured , cheers big ears from down under #CASHisKINGnoCBDC
@@GunsOfTheWest RWS 1075 or1075+ fit my Pietta's best Rem. or Win. #11 work but I have to Pinch them. I'm still trying to get the Tool from .22LR Reloader to work,trying pie tins the ones from Cans are a little a little short and usually either fall off or work go on at all.
Great an informative video. I am a novice and very interested and still learning a lot about this sport. I have a question that I hope you can help me with. Can a Conical paper cartridge be shot out of a 1851 Pietta sheriff revolver? Thank you for your time and apologies for my lack of knowledge.
It can, but the plunger on the Pietta will blunt the bullet a little bit when loading. Here’s a video I did on how to replace the plunger with one that will work better: czcams.com/video/NAVi0QIqrxQ/video.html Thanks for watching!
Just about to purchase .44 former off Etsy. Something I’ve been meaning to do for over a year. Going to use conical so can I get Lee R.E.A.L conical or will Johnston&Dow be better? If latter where can I get mould? Yourself and Duelist Den are my absolute go to vids.👍
My own question (coming from Facebook), is have you ever shot blanks before with paper cartridges ala Civil War reenactment? If so, what was your method? I sent a comment about how I used your former to make my own paper blanks with half gunpowder and half grits, and gluing the top down. The first day the formers were delivered, and I fired the paper cartridges with round ball, I did my routine of unscrewing the nipples after disassembling the revolver, and just putting the freed nipples, cylinder, and barrel into a bucket of boiling hot water. I swished it around, took them out, and dried/cleaned/oiled as normal. The next day I decided to just leave the nipples in while cleaning after trying out the paper cartridge blanks that I made. That is when I noticed the now wet cigarette paper stuck inside the cylinder at the nipple end, because I had used cotton swabs to clean the inside of the cylinders and the paper stuck to the cotton swab end.
Why can’t you use brass tubes with paper bottoms to hold the powder in maybe mold the lead to tapper fit into the brass. A lot of work at first but in the long run the cartridges will be more durable
I've just started looking into the history of paper cartridges. Have guns with self-contained cartridges ever existed before the introduction of caps? Like a flintlock or a matchlock that didn't require a separate charge of priming powder?
Eduard - Dustin touched on this briefly, but yes, paper cartridges were made for early rifles. They weren't combustible, however. The British Manual of Arms for the flintlock Enfield went as follows - 1. Tear open back of paper cartridge. 2. Pour small amount of powder into pan and close frizzen. 3. Pour remaining powder down barrel. 4. Load ball, paper and all. 5. Fire. The advantage, of course, was not needing to carry all the separate supplies normally associated with black powder shooting.
How common is smoldering residue in the chambers from paper cartridges? If I only fire a couple rounds I'd like to just top the gun off right away. For example if I'm out hog hunting it might be beneficial to top the gun off quickly as opposed to waiting any period of time. I say this because the area I hunt in is a privately owned property and they are funny about most center fire guns. They only allow shotguns, bows, and black powder.
Does premaking paper cartridges change the legality of black powder firearms? Also, I have heard that there are some historical cartridge guns that can be legally obtained without a license? For instance I live in MA.
The paper cartridges don’t change anything legally about the revolvers. If you’re interested, I offer the kits here: gunsoftheweststore.com/collections/complete-paper-cartridge-kits I’m not sure about the license issue. In Utah, we don’t have any licensing requirements for firearms, so I just haven’t looked into that.
Coffe Filters... _used coffe filters_ to specific... ever test out quickrinse, sun-drying flat, and rolling ammo with a used filter? Would be nice if something that would be trash can be used instead of using a fresh one. I already dry the old grounds for throwing across the lawn. will the trace coffe silt mess with its viability for ammo?
Dustin, having trouble with my first couple dozen cartridges using your kit. After 24 hours, half of them have little splits or rips in the paper along the sides that I don't recall seeing when I made them initially. I'm wondering if I need to use slightly thicker paper like coffee filters instead of cigarette papers. I'm located in Georgia, so I'm wondering if the humidity here is swelling the powder and splitting the cases afterwards. Any suggestions? Thanks!
Just getting into black powder revolvers. Been shooting .45 flintlock for over 30 years and this is all so new to me. Is there a way to purchase paper cartridges or are they home made only? I know this vid is over 2 years old, but here's hoping. Thanks.
I’m not aware of any that are available already made. They would be risky to ship anyway. Here’s a link to the website, so you can see the products available: gunsoftheweststore.com Thanks for watching!
This might be a silly question, but is there a way for these paper cartridges to leave air gaps in the cylinder? I only ask because I had a cartridge crinkle as I was loading it (before I pressed the ball in) it seems to have seated fine, but I wonder if that could ever be a problem?
So what happens if you happen to get paraffin all over a cartridge can you still shoot the cartridge as long as the back's not covered with paraffin just the sides in the front
As for muzzle loaders can you insert the whole paper cartridge without tearing and pouring the powder first as it is usually done if not why not isn’t the percussion cap powerful enough to punch through even tin? I tried searching with no answer.
Just a comment about lube wads I loaded three 44 cylinders powder lube wad and ball then left the for eleven months , just shot them last week all fired just fine with no noticeable difference from a fresh load . I'm going to repeat the test with a paper cartridge with wad and without but I dont think the wad will be a problem
They’re actually much faster than loose powder. They do tak a bit of time to make before heading to the range, but loading them into the revolver is extremely convenient.
Howdy, I've got a question for yah... I see these fellas lately making their own nitrite paper by dunking coffee filters in stump killer (Potassium Nitrate), then hanging them out on the line to air dry. Well, this of course makes potassium nitrate coated paper. Potassium Nitrate is a salt (Salt Petre), so my question is: Would not these salt coated papers act as a corrosive to the inside of the steel cylinder chambers - particularly if the revolver is left loaded up for a few months? Thanks in advance for any reply.
I forgot about it and left a previously fired flintlock rifle uncleaned, with a shot loaded, for over three years. There was a light film of rust in the bore, and a little around the touch hole. Wiped the outside with a oiled rag, shot 10 shots through it, and it looks just as good as it ever did. In short: it's not an issue.
Do you ever use a .451 ball? .454 because of things are out. So I got hornaday. 451 they shave a thin ring when pressed, but haven't fired that cylinder yet. Tia.
For those of us who mainly fire blanks, what would you recommend (walker) for the length of the paper, powder, and filler material. I have been using just powder but even with a hole punched the primer was pushing the cartridge but not igniting. I am guessing that I might not be getting the cartridge fully seated.
Ok I have an idea and I need to know if it’s possible. So for a flintlock, what if you made a paper cartridge that had like an extra layer with the (I think FFFF) to prime the pan. So the way it would work is you would tear off the end, prime the pan, close the pan, then load the rest like a normal cartridge. Would this work or am I being ridiculous?
Hello Sir, I have a Sharps copy (SILE) of a 54 Cal that uses paper cartridge, do you make a kit for 54 Cal?, If Not, Do I need one? Or where can I find one? Thanks
I only just found your cartridge former and then your channel through Eras Gone, and while looking at your store (ended up purchasing the .36 and .44 former bundle) saw that you sell two different formers for 25 and 30 grain charges in .44. Are these made with different tapers, or is it simple a taller block and higher cutting groove on the shaft?
The larger one creates the same size top and bottom of the paper envelope that the standard one does, so the taper is just slightly different to achieve that. I didn’t want people to have to simply just cut higher with the same taper because it would cause the bullets to fit too loosely.
@@GunsOfTheWest So I would need both if I wanted to try 30gr loads. Was hoping I could just cut higher on the 25gr spindle, but now you've said it that would obviously give the cup a wider mouth. Oh well. Thanks for the info.
No meaner how hard I try. When I put a Lee Conical bullet into the paper tube it goes around most of it but still wrinkles somewhere on the edge. Is there something I can do, maybe make the paper longer? Thank you, I use your cartridge kit for .44 or does it matter?
The regular Lee conicals are not quite as good as the historical bullets for paper cartridges. If you do want to use them though, you’re right that you can cut the paper just a little longer for a slightly wider opening.
Well would your kits come with a 30 grains of powder measure. I use my .44 caliber 1851 colt navy with round balls for a side arm for bear hunting at close range I'm not sure that 25 grains would pack the punch I need. Looking for a faster way to reload in a hurry if I need it
My XL version holds 30 grains instead of the standard 25. Here’s the direct link to it: gunsoftheweststore.com/products/paper-cartridge-kit-44-xl-30-grain-charge Thanks for watching!
Check out the Guns of the West store here: gunsoftheweststore.com
Depending on caliber and load, Altoid tins hold 20 - 25 cartridges tightly and safely.
Great idea!
A great video, as always, but I would add two things: First, nitrated filter paper is superior to thin papers (cigarettes, etc.) because it is much more durable if you're going to do anything other than locking the cartridges in plastic boxes (especially if you're going to use Civil War ammunition pouches, etc.). I also find it far less finicky to form--the thin paper crushes and crumples much too easily. And frankly, nitrating coffee filters is so incredibly easy to do there's just no reason not to if you're going to the trouble of making combustible cartridges in the first place. Second, as to lubing, dipping the bullets in grease is faster and far less messy than using grease over the chambers, especially when people use things like Crisco or Bore Butter which just melt out without doing any good as soon as the revolver gets hot. Just make sure not to let the grease go down past the bullet to where it can contaminate the powder if you're going to store it for a long time--just dip the exposed part of the bullet.
In the video I saw using the Manley paper cartridge former (RIP good sir. You are missed) the "lubricant" used was melted paraffin wax. Dip the formed cartridge into a bowl of melted wax up to where the edge of the paper is, and no further. I started making a bunch of cartridges (never finished them because I'm lazy and the friend whose house I was doing it at sold it and moved out of state) and have the wax to use, but never finished the few cartridges I started.
@@blacksheep_edge1412 The grease used during the Civil War, according to the Federal and Confederate ordnance manuals, was a mixture of beeswax and tallow. The proportions varied from 8:1 to 3:1, but that's what I use most of the time. But when I run out of tallow, I use a 1:1 mix of beeswax to olive oil, except when it's really hot, when I use more beeswax to make it stiffer. Both recipes work perfectly.
@@Schlachtschule Nothing wrong with that. I was just saying for casual shooters/hobbyists paraffin wax works. Someday in the future I will have to try your way as well.
@@blacksheep_edge1412 I wasn't criticizing paraffin, I've never used it. I will say it's no harder to get paraffin than it is to get beeswax and olive oil, but there are lots of ways to skin a cat! It's interesting to me that I never see paraffin mentioned in any of the period sources I've looked at, but I don't know why that is.
@@Schlachtschule I wasn't criticizing so if I came across that way I apologize. Paraffin isn't period AFAIK. It's a more modern wax mix, like carnauba wax. But it is readily available in hobby stores that cater to a wide range of non-shooting hobbies (think Michael's or Hobby Lobby as examples). Paraffin is also rather inexpensive. I paid like $25 for a 10 lb "sheet" of the stuff (but then again I also used a 40% off coupon so I actually paid closer to $10 at Hobby Lobby). Beeswax is also freely available in the same places. Having never sourced Tallow I can't speak to how easy or difficult it is to source. One other benefit of parafin is you can use it to flux your lead when casting your own conicals. And with the Manley former you need a touch of wax to lube the dowel when working on making your cartridges. So I am getting a lot of use out of that one sheet of wax. Still have over 9.5 lbs left too, seeing as I have yet to actually lube my finished cartridges with it.
For my cartridges I have learned that most of the paper that’s left after firing is where glue had been applied during construction. To mitigate this problem I have started using dextrin glue (corn starch that’s baked and then added to water) it acts as a good binder while being combustible enough for this purpose. Thank you for awesome video!
I only use round balls in my Pietta New Model Army. I make my paper cartridges using Dustin's kit and it works very well. I find that people overthink what is quite simple. I never owned my own BP revolver until I did exhaustive research and Dustin's channel was one key factor in helping me with my research and solidifying my choice on my first purchase. Mike's channel was and continues to be a great resource as well. When I make my next batch of paper cartridges, I'll be using Dustin's kit, but trying different paper this time.
What did you end up buying and why?
I am so glad someone finally said use the proper cap size. I see alot of vids stating to just squeeze a #11 cap to fit a #10 cone. A properly sized and seated ball will not chainfire. With the exception of having a bubble in a cast ball. I say this so people will read it. I'm not yelling. MOST CHAINFIRES OCCUR AT THE REAR OF THE CHAMBER. At the nipples. Maybe I am talking a little loud. Great vid and thank you Dustin, for making factual vidios.
I bought one of your paper cartridge tool kits for .44 and .36. had excellent luck with them using RB. Will be picking up moulds soon for the proper bullets. Thanks!
Watched a video on the paper cartridge kit and immediately ordered it. Made about 30 cartridges up and the next day went to the firing range to try them out. Makes loading faster. Thinking about buying another kit to cut it the paper guide down to try it in a cigarette roller to roll the papers faster.
You're the guy to ask when using B&C revolvers, keep up the good work
Got to use the ones I made over the weekend - OMFG! - it was so freaking fast, easy and convenient versus pouring each chamber by hand, never mind the lack of mess due to not having to mess with lube due to me dipping them at home.
As for whether or not to nitrate, I was checking the chambers before reloading and only found a small scrap of paper once after running through thirty rounds, so I'm going to say it isn't necessary with cigarette paper.
I’m very glad they’re working so well for you! Thanks for your business!
Great video. You not only answered the questions, but you explained the answers very well. Thanx for making it.
Thanks! By the way, I’ll be heading out with the LeMat and some SliXshots, hopefully this week.
@@GunsOfTheWest outstanding.
Just got my .36 cal cartridge former. Made up my first 5 rounds using round balls, tissue paper for gift bags and Pyrodex P... just gotta make up some caps with the Prime All kit and I’ll be on my way! Fellow Utahn... I saw you at a sportsman’s once, but didn’t want to approach you to not weird you out.
Oh, I wish you had stopped me! I always like meeting fellow BP shooters, especially viewers. Which Sportsman’s location was that?
I recognize this an old video.. but I just got into black powder..everythinhg... and I can't stop smiling every time I think about it.
LOTS of great information Dustin! Nice shirt and thanks for the shout out!
No problem!
Yeah. That is a nice shirt.
Rather than nitrating the paper, you can use flash paper which leaves no residue whatsoever. Not exactly period correct, but it works and keeps the chambers cleaner.
Flash paper is nitrated paper. Same thing. Check out how to make gun cotton in youtube, easy to make.
@@eldonjanzen9822 nope, you are wrong. Flash paper you can make if to the nitrate add the solfuric acid. the behavior of nitrate paper and flash paper are completely different: nitrate burn slowly and incrementing the speed with higg temperature and remains a lot of dust, the flash paper is just flash, it means burns immediately and remains not dust, litterally nothing. BUT,nitrate paper is stable after some year, the flash paper is much more instable and can self ignites with a spark or less.
@@ArgoPower thanks for the info.
great video thanks! I ordered your kit so this info is outstanding
Thanks for your business!
Cool video!
I do have a question. Have you considered doing an up to date video on making your own percussion caps. I started making my own when factory caps dried up completely in my area. There are several ways to do it from cap gun cap compound scavenging to priming compound kits. I personally haven’t gone back to factory caps now that I make my own.
I just got one of your kits. I found that putting a small dab of glue on the outside end of the paper makes it easier to get it wrapped tight.
Never realised how much I appreciate metallic cartridges.
You will feel that way about paper cartridges when metallic cartridges are no longer available to the public.
@@blueduck9409 Got plenty of brass. projectiles, primers and powder. Not to sound too optomistic but I doubt I'll be around if or when that happens.
I'll second that !
It’s nice to know you appreciated it before watching this video. 🙂
@@profile2047 Sweet! Now you can get a good night's sleep. 👌👍🍺
Thank you for the answers. Good, concise answers.
Thank you for answering all these questions it is so helpful I really enjoy your videos as a matter of fact I purchased one of your kits for my 44 caliber and thank you so much I watch your videos all the time they're very helpful
Thank you!
I'm one of the guys that uses hair curling paper to form the cartridge. It works quite well. That hair curling paper is super thin yet quite strong and there is no problem with tearing at all. I had to order it on line because the hair salons don't carry them anymore. If you want to try them make sure you get the Jumbo sized papers and you can cut them in half and make two cartridges from one paper. The actual size is 4" x 2.5".
I’m just starting to get into black powder (been avoiding that ‘rabbit hole’ for years). I love your videos and you continue to answer questions, sometimes, before I even I think to ask them!
I ordered a kit and will be getting started on making some soon.
Your videos are excellent! Thorough and well organized.
Thank you!
Nice coverage of the subject. 👍I do wish to add a couple of things from personal experience. The glue used definitely makes a difference. My first effort I used Elmer's. Everywhere the glue was used failed to burn any. One cylinderful and I had to take time out to remove what remained (a lot). My next effort used Duco cement. I thought that since it's used on brass shotshells to keep everything in, maybe it would work with paper.......NOPE. Same results. Success came when I used that mucelage glue that's used on cigarette papers. Since, I've switched to the school stick glue. Works fine. I still use cigarette papers. They are mildly nitrated and seem to burn up better than heavier coffee filters. They are just a bit more delicate than the coffee filter papers, but not enough more to make any real difference.
One other thing I've noticed. The paper cartridge needs a slight taper - not for ease of loading, although that's a benefit. Rather so the end of the paper cartridge will "pop" on seating. Without a taper, which allows the cartridge to pop open at the end of seating, you will experience hang fire. Found this out when making straight cartridges (attempting to maximize loading). Slow to load, and usually don't pop open. Hang fire most of the time. Sometimes barely, sometimes long enough to worry, but noticeable. Tapered cartridges don't do that. So, yes, the caps will burn through the paper, but without the taper on thecartridges, how quickly that happens can be an issue.
Again, good video. 👍
If you can't get black powder. make it. It is so very easy and the materials are cheap. beyond that it feels nice to be a little more self sufficient and know exactly what goes into the powder. stay safe.
Great video! Answers ever question I have ever had regarding paper cartridges. Can’t wait to fire the cartridges I made today using the kit I purchased from you last week. Thank you for all you do in your videos. Educational and entertaining.
Thanks for watching and for your business!
Great video Dustin. Am having a great time using your paper cartridge kit. They worked great in my original 51 Navy and my original first model Dragoon. its really cool to shoot these revolvers like they were originally. Keep up the great work
Do you need a different cylinder for paper cartridges or does the original cylinder that comes with the revolver work?
@@gonzalofeziwig6997 you use the original cylinder. You don't need anything special. the paper just makes it easier and faster to load. This is mostly how revolvers were loaded during the Civil War. The percussion caps ignites the papers as well. The gun acts just like it normally would without paper cartridges. You can also nitride the paper. By soaking it in potassium nitrate and water taking it out and letting it dry. burns up completely. But it's not necessary if you use cigarette paper. Cheers. I hope this helps.
getting my first B&C revolver, I'm settling towards the Remington because of the solid frame but I really like the look of the cult... They don't make it easy on us new guys.
Excellent video. Very helpful. Very informative. Thank you.
Black powder is just so dam cool.
Great information. Definitely answered the questions I had. Keep the videos coming.
Please do a video on loading Triple-7! It would be much appreciated!
@Guns Of The West Thanks for all the videos. Very helpful for a someone new to black powder. Just made up 50 36cal paper carriages using round balls with your kit. Cant wait to shoot them. As I was dipping them in lube it occurred to me the lube will scrape off when I seat the ball. Does the lube for a round ball really help? Conicals have grease rings so that makes sense. Happy shooting.
Some does scrape off, but most still ends up in the chambers and bore, so it still helps.
I use Pyrodex pellets and I put for cut-out pieces of parchment paper or sometimes I'll punch out the perfect sized circles on a plate and use them as a divider as well and they never affect the Pyrodex pellets or the paper they seem to work months after I make them haven't had any fail at all and sometimes haven't used them in over 6 to 7 months
Don't use blackpower substitute. It uses potassium chlorate in steed of potassiumnitrate. My experience it creates a residue in the barrel and its extra work to clean the barrel. It easy to make gunpower. I used my home made gunpowder all the time.
Thank you for the informative video! Diving deeper and deeper into black powder shooting and paper cartridges are next on the project list! These were all questions lingering in my head! Subscribed and will be watching more!
Thank you!
@@GunsOfTheWest also promptly bought your 44 rolling kit last night!
Three comments:
> If you have children, spend time teaching them to make the paper cartridges. My ten year old made 60 good cartridges the first night we had our kit and it's always great parenting time spent hanging out doing useful hobby stuff.
> I can't shoot right now because of the AZ fires and because our local range only allows certain club members to use their black powder range. (Thassum 🐂 💩.)
> I want to make twenty-five grain roundball cartridges for my .36 colts for hunting jackalopes. (The big ones shoot back in AZ if you don't put 'em down quick.) I need a longer kit. 😬
THANK YOU You answered my questions an some I haven't thought of yet.
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!
Great video as always I think you should make a video about cap and ball revolver myths vs reality. And also do a video about some of the 19th century American made firearms that you think were some of the best and worse. Either cap and ball or cartridge revolvers and types of rifles that were made by various gun manufacturers in America.
Great ideas! I’ll see what I can do.
Just ordered a .44 cartridge former from your store, thanks.
Thanks for your business!
@@GunsOfTheWest no problem. Thank you for what you do! I’m so excited I can barely help myself, I just made a lube mix for dipping my paper cartridges of 2:1 beeswax / olive oil. Holds up great
I use Pyrodex in my 1851 Navy and Pietta recommends a smaller powder load for Pyrodex. How is the cartridge affected if the powder load is reduced? Thanks for the wonderful kit!
If you’re using the built-in powder measure in my kit, you can fill it with either Pyrodex or black powder. The charge is safe for both. Here’s a direct link to the kits: gunsoftheweststore.com/collections/complete-paper-cartridge-kits
Thanks for watching!
I’m getting around to getting a kit.
Wish I'd waited till you came out with your kits to get mine. It's way nicer than what I bought. I'd like see a comparison between pyrodex ,777 and goex for accuracy
I used a crimper to make #11 caps fit, I got 200 of em and idk if they are safe 😭😅 they might be, i think it’s a maybe, I’m fairly sure of myself. But as my pops used to say “ you don’t never know”
Great thoughts as usual. Thanks.
Gives a whole new meaning to a colt 45 and two zig zags
Very interesting and informative.. thanks for sharing
Another #10
I am using the Paper Cartridge Kit that I ordered from you and it is so fun to make those cartridges now. I even bought more cigarett rolling papers, four with 100 pieces each, so I am thinking of making about 400 cartridges, maybe. What size of cap should I use for my Remington 44 1858. I have used 1075 and I have an unopened box with the size 1075 Plus. What size of cap do you recommend? I had to squeeze the caps for the first box sometimes for the caps to keep in place.
I say it again, I love your great videos and thanks again for the Paper Cartridge Kit.
I recommend Remington #10 caps if you can find them. Otherwise, CCI #11 works pretty well too. Thanks for your business!
@@GunsOfTheWest Thank you for your fast answer. Have a nice evening or what time of day you have in the west. Regards Sami
i love your work my friend , i use cigarette papers and i think the chambers taper actually causes the cap end of the paper cartridge to rupture as you seat the ball , i noticed using a too small ball once and tapping the paper cartridge back out onto the bench from the cylinder that the cap end was ruptured , cheers big ears from down under #CASHisKINGnoCBDC
Thank you for your videos!
great info
Great Video!!!!!!!
Thanks!
@@GunsOfTheWest RWS 1075 or1075+ fit my Pietta's best Rem. or Win. #11 work but I have to Pinch them. I'm still trying to get the Tool from .22LR Reloader to work,trying pie tins the ones from Cans are a little a little short and usually either fall off or work go on at all.
Super helpful
Thank you
Great an informative video. I am a novice and very interested and still learning a lot about this sport. I have a question that I hope you can help me with. Can a Conical paper cartridge be shot out of a 1851 Pietta sheriff revolver? Thank you for your time and apologies for my lack of knowledge.
It can, but the plunger on the Pietta will blunt the bullet a little bit when loading. Here’s a video I did on how to replace the plunger with one that will work better: czcams.com/video/NAVi0QIqrxQ/video.html
Thanks for watching!
Just about to purchase .44 former off Etsy. Something I’ve been meaning to do for over a year. Going to use conical so can I get Lee R.E.A.L conical or will Johnston&Dow be better? If latter where can I get mould? Yourself and Duelist Den are my absolute go to vids.👍
My own question (coming from Facebook), is have you ever shot blanks before with paper cartridges ala Civil War reenactment? If so, what was your method?
I sent a comment about how I used your former to make my own paper blanks with half gunpowder and half grits, and gluing the top down. The first day the formers were delivered, and I fired the paper cartridges with round ball, I did my routine of unscrewing the nipples after disassembling the revolver, and just putting the freed nipples, cylinder, and barrel into a bucket of boiling hot water. I swished it around, took them out, and dried/cleaned/oiled as normal.
The next day I decided to just leave the nipples in while cleaning after trying out the paper cartridge blanks that I made. That is when I noticed the now wet cigarette paper stuck inside the cylinder at the nipple end, because I had used cotton swabs to clean the inside of the cylinders and the paper stuck to the cotton swab end.
Absolutely, coffee filters that are not nitrated will not burn up.you will get a clogged cylinder
Hi from France and thanks to share! I have a question: what do you think about collodion on the paper cartridge?
Why can’t you use brass tubes with paper bottoms to hold the powder in maybe mold the lead to tapper fit into the brass. A lot of work at first but in the long run the cartridges will be more durable
I've just started looking into the history of paper cartridges. Have guns with self-contained cartridges ever existed before the introduction of caps? Like a flintlock or a matchlock that didn't require a separate charge of priming powder?
Eduard - Dustin touched on this briefly, but yes, paper cartridges were made for early rifles. They weren't combustible, however. The British Manual of Arms for the flintlock Enfield went as follows - 1. Tear open back of paper cartridge. 2. Pour small amount of powder into pan and close frizzen. 3. Pour remaining powder down barrel. 4. Load ball, paper and all. 5. Fire.
The advantage, of course, was not needing to carry all the separate supplies normally associated with black powder shooting.
How common is smoldering residue in the chambers from paper cartridges? If I only fire a couple rounds I'd like to just top the gun off right away. For example if I'm out hog hunting it might be beneficial to top the gun off quickly as opposed to waiting any period of time.
I say this because the area I hunt in is a privately owned property and they are funny about most center fire guns. They only allow shotguns, bows, and black powder.
Does premaking paper cartridges change the legality of black powder firearms? Also, I have heard that there are some historical cartridge guns that can be legally obtained without a license? For instance I live in MA.
The paper cartridges don’t change anything legally about the revolvers. If you’re interested, I offer the kits here: gunsoftheweststore.com/collections/complete-paper-cartridge-kits
I’m not sure about the license issue. In Utah, we don’t have any licensing requirements for firearms, so I just haven’t looked into that.
Coffe Filters... _used coffe filters_ to specific...
ever test out quickrinse, sun-drying flat, and rolling ammo with a used filter?
Would be nice if something that would be trash can be used instead of using a fresh one. I already dry the old grounds for throwing across the lawn. will the trace coffe silt mess with its viability for ammo?
Dustin, having trouble with my first couple dozen cartridges using your kit. After 24 hours, half of them have little splits or rips in the paper along the sides that I don't recall seeing when I made them initially. I'm wondering if I need to use slightly thicker paper like coffee filters instead of cigarette papers. I'm located in Georgia, so I'm wondering if the humidity here is swelling the powder and splitting the cases afterwards. Any suggestions? Thanks!
Waltuh put you papper catridge away Waltuh, I am not gonna use black powder right now waltuh
Just getting into black powder revolvers. Been shooting .45 flintlock for over 30 years and this is all so new to me. Is there a way to purchase paper cartridges or are they home made only? I know this vid is over 2 years old, but here's hoping. Thanks.
I’m not aware of any that are available already made. They would be risky to ship anyway. Here’s a link to the website, so you can see the products available: gunsoftheweststore.com
Thanks for watching!
This might be a silly question, but is there a way for these paper cartridges to leave air gaps in the cylinder? I only ask because I had a cartridge crinkle as I was loading it (before I pressed the ball in) it seems to have seated fine, but I wonder if that could ever be a problem?
What about single shot muzzleloaders? i.e. non-revolvers?
So what happens if you happen to get paraffin all over a cartridge can you still shoot the cartridge as long as the back's not covered with paraffin just the sides in the front
As long as the base isn’t covered with it, it should still fire.
Sir can you make a 50 cal rifle paper cartridge kit
Getting ready to order my kit for 44 Cal. What size of plastic cartridge box, do you use.
I typically use a .45 Colt cartridge box.
I found 6 shot boxes on eBay. Paper cartridges 44 cal. the fast and easy way
czcams.com/video/FSo0bnLhLi8/video.html
As for muzzle loaders can you insert the whole paper cartridge without tearing and pouring the powder first as it is usually done if not why not isn’t the percussion cap powerful enough to punch through even tin? I tried searching with no answer.
I am brand new to percussion revolvers but it seems to me that lubing the mouth of the cylinder is a quick glance verification of a loaded chamber
It does give a chance to verify that, but that’s not the purpose of doing it.
Just a comment about lube wads I loaded three 44 cylinders powder lube wad and ball then left the for eleven months , just shot them last week all fired just fine with no noticeable difference from a fresh load . I'm going to repeat the test with a paper cartridge with wad and without but I dont think the wad will be a problem
Nice backdrop of rush valley ?
Awesome information Brother, thumbs up ~John
Is pyrodex a 1 to 1 ratio with black powder, do you use the same amount of either for a load? I'm sure they shouldn't be mixed.
This a Rifle of course
Is it feasible to use a half of a pyridex pellet in a 36 cal. since their sized for 45 ?
Why make paper cartridges? I was taught to: 1) pour in powder, 2) put in oatmeal or wads, 3) lube....Seems like using loose powder is faster...
They’re actually much faster than loose powder. They do tak a bit of time to make before heading to the range, but loading them into the revolver is extremely convenient.
Hello and thank you. Just wondering if these work well in a single shot Kentucky-type pistol. Thanks again!!
Howdy, I've got a question for yah... I see these fellas lately making their own nitrite paper by dunking coffee filters in stump killer (Potassium Nitrate), then hanging them out on the line to air dry. Well, this of course makes potassium nitrate coated paper. Potassium Nitrate is a salt (Salt Petre), so my question is: Would not these salt coated papers act as a corrosive to the inside of the steel cylinder chambers - particularly if the revolver is left loaded up for a few months? Thanks in advance for any reply.
I forgot about it and left a previously fired flintlock rifle uncleaned, with a shot loaded, for over three years. There was a light film of rust in the bore, and a little around the touch hole. Wiped the outside with a oiled rag, shot 10 shots through it, and it looks just as good as it ever did. In short: it's not an issue.
How about show rifle shot and ball loads.
Hello paper patch on 45 70 and 45 Long colt? load with pyrodex or black power
Do you ever use a .451 ball? .454 because of things are out. So I got hornaday. 451 they shave a thin ring when pressed, but haven't fired that cylinder yet. Tia.
I use them occasionally and haven’t had any problems with, but I prefer .454. I usually find them in Sportsman’s Warehouse stores.
What is a good container for storing paper cartridges?
For those of us who mainly fire blanks, what would you recommend (walker) for the length of the paper, powder, and filler material. I have been using just powder but even with a hole punched the primer was pushing the cartridge but not igniting. I am guessing that I might not be getting the cartridge fully seated.
When adding a lubricant over the loaded cartridge can I just put a lubricated wad over the bullet?
Ok I have an idea and I need to know if it’s possible. So for a flintlock, what if you made a paper cartridge that had like an extra layer with the (I think FFFF) to prime the pan. So the way it would work is you would tear off the end, prime the pan, close the pan, then load the rest like a normal cartridge. Would this work or am I being ridiculous?
Hello Sir, I have a Sharps copy (SILE) of a 54 Cal that uses paper cartridge, do you make a kit for 54 Cal?, If Not, Do I need one? Or where can I find one? Thanks
Can you make paper cartridges for rifle muzzle loaders?
I only just found your cartridge former and then your channel through Eras Gone, and while looking at your store (ended up purchasing the .36 and .44 former bundle) saw that you sell two different formers for 25 and 30 grain charges in .44. Are these made with different tapers, or is it simple a taller block and higher cutting groove on the shaft?
The larger one creates the same size top and bottom of the paper envelope that the standard one does, so the taper is just slightly different to achieve that. I didn’t want people to have to simply just cut higher with the same taper because it would cause the bullets to fit too loosely.
@@GunsOfTheWest So I would need both if I wanted to try 30gr loads. Was hoping I could just cut higher on the 25gr spindle, but now you've said it that would obviously give the cup a wider mouth. Oh well. Thanks for the info.
I guess David Chipman gave this a thumbs down.
How long do they hold up after you dip them in the liquid lube?
As long as they’re stored securely, they’ll actually last indefinitely. Only the projectile end is dipped and the lube will harden.
I have a question when you dip the paper cartridge in lube the way you showed in another video I watched how long does it stay lubed?
Does anybody know why, nobody makes pellets for 36 cal?
What's the best way to store paper cartridges?
No meaner how hard I try. When I put a Lee Conical bullet into the paper tube it goes around most of it but still wrinkles somewhere on the edge. Is there something I can do, maybe make the paper longer? Thank you, I use your cartridge kit for .44 or does it matter?
The regular Lee conicals are not quite as good as the historical bullets for paper cartridges. If you do want to use them though, you’re right that you can cut the paper just a little longer for a slightly wider opening.
Well would your kits come with a 30 grains of powder measure. I use my .44 caliber 1851 colt navy with round balls for a side arm for bear hunting at close range I'm not sure that 25 grains would pack the punch I need. Looking for a faster way to reload in a hurry if I need it
My XL version holds 30 grains instead of the standard 25. Here’s the direct link to it: gunsoftheweststore.com/products/paper-cartridge-kit-44-xl-30-grain-charge
Thanks for watching!
@@GunsOfTheWest thanks I'll give it a try
How much are your paper cartridge kits???
Here’s a link to my website: gunsoftheweststore.com