Learn more about Ryan here: ryancleckner.com/ Visit my website for hardware and software that will help you achieve your competitive goals. www.ShootSmallGroups.com
The key to a great teacher is the ability to take a complex subject, break it down in understandable terms, and the students leave motivated to continue their education.
I've learned more from Ryan by watching his videos than from my sniper instructors. I legit pass sniper school from Ryan's videos of MOA, windage, DOPE, and Angle.
Cleckner talks shooting people targets, not paper targets. He literally wrote the book on long range shooting. I would trust his judgment and experience on the subject. He's very graceful and pretty humble considering...
Iv just discovered your videos all the way from Ireland 🇮🇪 and the knowledge behind both of you guys is astonishing. Such a fantastic informative interview. Thanks to you both, it has opened my eyes a little more to things i have not considered
Thank you for your time Mr. Cleckner. And thank you for all of the instructional videos you've made over the years. They are the first place I suggest new shooters should go because they helped me so much and are easy for the novice to understand. "Go watch ALL of Ryan Cleckner's videos and then do what you want from there". Best advice I can give. Big thanks to the NSSF also, of course.
After I bought and thoroughly read Ryan Cleckner's long range shooting handbook. I have gotten way better at it. I'm excited for the new 7mm PRC rifle to reach out farther than my .308.
Big thanks to Chris Way for nominating Ryan and big thanks to Ryan for doing it. His videos and book have greatly influenced my ideals towards the shooting sports
@@hulley5223 Thank you for the comment, Randy knew/knows most of the original developers of the modern rifle community and has been instrumental in several different cartridge's development process and testing. Not to disparage his Gunsmithing skills they speak for themselves. I think it would be a highly interesting interview and would really highlight Eric's desire of seeing things from a different perspective for learning and growing our close community of riflemen.
About shooting a clean barrel, I have a 6 mm Creedmoor that's just passed 2000 rounds and should be nearing retirement. I find it takes a lot more shots after cleaning it to get it to shoot good again, compared to a 1000 rounds ago. It used to be 1 or 2 shots to get it good, now it's 10.
-After graduating from my Red Ryder to a Benjamin pistol and finally to a 22, I had way more time then money. I practiced dry firing at a spot on the wall of my bedroom. I called it snap shooting. Throw the rifle up and squeeze. A successful shot was when perfect sight picture was perceived at the click. Eventually I learned to do it with both eyes open and when I got my first scope I could nail a squirrel running on a tree limb. (If it wasn't too far away, maybe ten or twelve yards.) I had a little clip fed Mossberg with the fold down forearm. Those were the days. Practice works.
Learning is all about making the mistakes Eric, the knowledge is knowing not making the same mistake a second time. Merry Christmas from Ireland we love you xoxo
Good conversation guys! I competed in F class myself and used a REM 700 SPS .308 in FPR. Out of the box I could hold my own with the rifle finish 1/2 nd on a regular basis. Then the guy I was head to head with began the equipment upgrade game so I did the same. Took it to Alton Brit at Dixie precision, new PTG bolt, true up barrel and receiver, made the rifle a superb shooter. Then I shot a PRS train up match with George Garner and other PRS guys. Did well on first match but second got my rear end handed to me because my mental game was not on that day in reference to your software comment Eric. Keep it up guys!
My personal favorite "believe" interview so far as a hunter shooter. Great mental material for a broader understanding of what affects performance in shooting!
My favorite book on long range shooting is Cleckner's book. And I have used his targets for bore sighting. His philosophy sticks with me. Focus on the reticle, not the target. Shoot tactically. A hit on the target zone is a hit. And that works perfectly for deer hunting, which is what I do.
I got Ryan’s book for Christmas and it perfect for a newb like me for LR shooting. Been following Erik on shooting and construction for a while. Great interview and look forward to seeing more.
Ryan was my first entree into long range shooting. Really great starting instruction. I shoot a ton of handgun and am pretty good. I still flinch. It’s why if I’m trying to shoot small groups - first few shots are blind fires then some warmup drills.
I’m a hunter. I shoot bench, standing supported, standing freehand, kneeling, and prone. I even shoot handgun and shotgun clays 3 position. I also shoot 5 dry for every 5 live like Erik recommends. If you want good Elk hunting stories, check out Randy Selby.
1moa low at 1k yds is from the decreased resistance from the barrel when it's clean and lubed. The dirty barrel has more friction resulting in the increased pressure. I agree with you guys! You guys are great! Thank you!
Great podcast guys. I love listening to two shooters discuss their trade with common sense and no bravado. Two guys that I would love to bend an elbow with someday. Cheers gentlemen, keep it up...
Crosman 760 Pumpmaster practice makes me a better big gun shooter. The 760 does not move much after discharge, which shows if one has a 'bad body set up' if the scope moves after discharge. A 1 inch target at 30 feet shows me any movement of the crosshairs when my body (all parts) moves at discharge. When body set up is right the crosshairs should not leave the 1 inch target at discharge.
Great conversation to point out the differences between range work and field work and what the needs of each really are. Soldier is happy with a hit, kill is a bonus, hunter is usually only happy with a kill, range work can be happy with a hit, or a tiny group, depending on the specific application. The legal aspect is another can of worms that far too many gun owners do not comprehend and cannot be explained to the public anywhere nearly enough.
The higher velocity after the first shot is due to carbon lubricating the barrel, when talking to a gunsmith many years ago he like the carbon in the necks of the cases for the lubrication, carbon in the barrel is good until it builds up to much , then affects the accuracy, when i check a load for a match and look at my es i will always discount the first shot
These are 2 of 3 of my go to sources for legit info. The 3rd is Bryan Litz. Ryan's book was my first read and that lead to his videos. At the suggestion of my coach/owner of range I moved on to the Applied Ballistics series. While absorbing all this material one thing rings loud and clear from these 3 guys. The 2 things that matters most are fundamentals and consistency and those 2 things apply to shooting and reloading. The new shiny thing.. be it a new rifle chambering, or the latest reloading gear is always cool, but without the fundamentals AND consistency the rest is meaningless. The other thing to take note of with these guys is they have the same open mindset. When a person closes their mind to new ideas or ongoing training they get left behind. Thank you both for sharing your wealth of knowledge. It has had a very positive impact to my learning.
I got to say one thing about the S&B ammo talk, S&B made ammo for hunting purposes long before Hornady and Berger was even invented and they know how to make it cheaper and better I got 8mm Mauser ammo from S&B with the cutting edge bullet and that stuff is amazing there is no Berger or Hornady what can compete with that in velocity or bullet performance So what I’m saying is if they want to make target ammo they can But the whole interview was great and I learn a thing or two
This confirms my observations, I am a newer long range shooter. Was at the range just trying to hone my skills and get an idea how the gun and I shoot. 19 of 20 shots were 1 MOA with the outlier pushing the group to 1.6 MOA. I can't say why the outlier was that far out of the rest of the group, my hope and expectation it was me not the factory ammo or the gun. I dry fire a fair bit, my fire target is a light bulb at 166 yards.
Eric instead of “burns it away” I’ve thought of it as “adds lubricity” I’m not a chemist but I feel like if you took a bunch of powder. Whatever kind. And got white gloves on and rubbed it in between your fingers. You know you’d see that staining you get when you leave powder in something for a while. It stains right? So whatever that liquid is in powder I think it’s actually that. It’s almost like it does have a super fine coating or saturation of oil in it. Obviously you could pre oil a barrel and shoot it but that’s not the same or remotely consistent, so sure swab it before the line. But I’m in agreement. It’s not heat. And I don’t really think it’s filling cracks for efficiency either. I think it’s just burnt powder is more of a faster surface than bare metal. My .02$
Thanks fellas . I like to follow Erik for his reloading and Ryan for his common sense shooting videos . Had no idea he was an attorney. Oh ya Erik im thinking i need a supressor tuner!
I'm happy about the mentioning S&B ammo, especially because it's from my country, CZECH. We shoot this ammo up too 1000 meters with comparatrive results to premium ammo like Hornady, Lapua ... we are on shortage of berger's components few years so this comparison is not available for now . The match (red boxes, with Lion on it, our national sign) are good
After cleaning I’ll do dry fire and then fire a couple of shots then shoot for a group. It’s the way I was taught. I found that a horrible trigger is just horrible. I found a great trigger will give you a much tighter group.
Stumbled across a guy in the early 90s that built a couple of wildcat pistols for silhouette. I understood what he was talking about and we became great friends. He has passed away to the big range above, but his “stuff “ is cherished and in my possession till I can’t use, then I might allow his son a chance.
AS John Jacobs said about golf can be said about shooting, "Golf is what the ball does.", and so it applies with shooting. "Shooting is what the bullet does" and that, in the end, is what matters. How you get there can be of a different road, but it is all about the Believing the Target.
Like the old saying goes: "It's the _INDIAN_ not the ARROW!" The rifle doesn't miss, it's the shooter that's the loose nut behind the butt! For me, the only time it was legit my rifle's fault for a miss was from a cracked scope ring... Great video Erik!
Very good 👍 conversation between experienced marksman in this skill craft. I believe there a difference In between hunting humans versus animals. There a problem in today’s shooters putting to much weight on their gear. Rather than getting needed experience behind their weapon’s. I’ll never understand why the Marine Corps discontinued their Scout Sniper program. You’re correct ✅ that cross training should be happening. Very important. Semper Fi
I’ve had almost opposite experience in PRS. The RO would call impact when the shooter missed just because the RO didn’t see the shot. This happened countless times.
As a hunter and I have been hunting whitetail for a long time, being what most would call an old fart by todays standards. I have learned to follow F Class and Bench shooters advice and Of course not for the field. But instead for how good to try an make your equipment work. As Erik has stated in other videos, If he is not shooting a 1/4 or less at 100 yards or making them all in the same hole. The barrel is history. As a hunter many may say well that's nuts. But if you attempt to apply it as much as possible and try to achieve the discipline. It will makes sense. Out of all my hunts, even still today containing your excitement when you see that trophy buck at the distance is difficult to do unless you dead from the waist up. So throw in all the factors, DEAD cold bore, One shot if lucky not 20, surrounding temp very cold. In an unfamiliar area. Just spent 6K on the hunt. You already see the Buck on the wall. Your blood pressure and heart rate. Is shaking the tree stand. Yeah you want to be as sharp as a pencile on paper, Because on the Field. Your luck if you can hit a stop sign at 75 yards.
Eric, Hope you and your family had a Merry Christmas and have a happy New Year. Let me give you some food for thought here on the clean bore first shot lower velocity thing... This will be a bit lengthy as I want to give full details of my testing and findings. To start, I 100% agree that I dont really think there is a "cold bore" error problem but there is definitely a "clean bore" error problem and like you, from everything I've personally seen, that first shot is always (or almost always at minimum) slower. With that said, after watching this video for this video for the first time Wednesday, I did a bit a testing on this between yesterday and today and think I can answer what is going on. Its not residue or what not like you suspect left in from cleaning causing the barrel to be "more slippery" but actually the opposite, clean bore is resulting in more friction and thus causing the bullet to be slower (and pressure to be higher). How I tested this was being a Mechanist by trade and having access to an optical comparator at work among other measuring and testing equipment, I went though a 100 ct pack of CCI BR2 primers that I have and found about 2 dozen that were identical to within .0002" of each other in overall height variation (measured variation on an inspection granite surface plate with a tenths indicator) then took all them to the optical comparator and found 10 that were as Identical as I could see in the comparator with regards to their corner radius and the doming of the primer itself by making a drawing in AutoCAD to use as a profile template for the corner radius and doming printed on transparency to use on the OC. With those 10 in hand and knowing that I have a really good load worked up for one of my rifles, I loaded up the 10 rounds. Yesterdays testing was 5 rounds that were done in a clean bore each time with also a 30min cool down period between each one with a barrel cooler through it for that 30 minutes. So essentially each shoot was though a clean bore and barrel at ambient temp. The only thing I didn't do was clean after the 5th shot so that way todays testing started on a single shot fouled bore. Todays testing was the same, just no cleaning between shots and to compensate for the "extra cooldown" that the cleaning + 30min cooldown with barrel cooler resulted in, I let the rifle sit for 45min with the barrel cooler running between each shot rather than 30 like yesterdays testing. All shots were shot over a Crono (didn't look for on target variation because I did this at home and I can only safely shot to 150yrd at home and had a very specific reason for doing it home). The reason for doing it home was so that all shots, cooldown and cleaning could be done in a climate controlled environment so to mitigate any possible outside ambient air temp difference causing any errors. The crono results showed exactly what I expected to see, the 5 shots on clean bore yesterday were all slower, between 25 and 30fts slower with the group vs. group average being 28fps slower for the 5 clean bore shots. Now here's where it gets interesting about the pressures. Rather than pushing out the primers as one normally would and risk possibly deforming them from their "As Fired" state, I took the shells up to work this afternoon and turned the heads down on each shell to where the primers fell out on their own. Then I took them over to the OC to compare them all back to the profile drawing and although it wasn't much, it could be seen that the 5 clean bore fired primers had ever so slightly more flattening and ever so slightly more squared off shoulders so it was clearly evident that those 5 were seeing higher pressure. I didn't bother to measure the relative heights between them since the visual on the comparator was enough to know that there was going to be a measurable relative height difference, plus I had to get back home and get stuff taken care of for tomorrow (wife was on my back about getting the smoker going before 6 this evening because of what time she wants everything to be ready by tomorrow. Anyways.....) So to see higher pressure yet have slower velocity, the only reasonable / logical explanation is that there is more friction in the clean bore slowing the bullet which in turn is causing an increase in pressure, or at least peak pressure. This makes sense too when you consider that Bench Rest shooters mitigate the problem by using Lock Ease (i.e., powdered graphite lubricant) as it is acting as a lubricant between the bullet and barrel (i.e., reducing the friction between the bullet and the barrel). The same thing is occurring via the microscopic residue left from the burnt power after the first or second shot without using Lock Ease (i.e., the residue left from the burnt powder is acting as the lubricant to reduce the friction between the bullet and barrel on subsequent shots).
I found it's best to listen to the ignorance as if interested, and politely change topic or break the discussion for some other event which is a priority. Although, if is time is available, one should educate. Anothto engage in discussion for which we
I found it's best to listen to the ignorance as if interested, and politely change topic or break the discussion for some other event which is a priority. Although, if is time is available, one should educate. Anotto engage in discussion for which we
@believethetarget my belief of the dirty vs clean barrel is pressure. I think a dirty bore holds higher pressure than a clean bore. Because, a dirty bore is technically smaller in diameter.
I think it’s the cold barrel steel not holding bullet as tight as the others due to expansion reasons. Some of the barrel grows in and some grows outward in every direction as it’s warming up. That little bit of growth might be enough to give you the difference in FPS? Thermal dynamic’s. What do you think?
Man the caliber of folks you’ve interviewed is magnum. But this guy, is one I’ve been waiting for. Thanks Erik.
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Cleckner is one guy with so much knowledge, hes forgot more than most of us know. Amazing sniper
The experience this guy has is amazing and his ability to explain/teach is GOLD!
The key to a great teacher is the ability to take a complex subject, break it down in understandable terms, and the students leave motivated to continue their education.
I've been waiting for this since you started this podcast. Kleckner is knowledge.
I've learned more from Ryan by watching his videos than from my sniper instructors. I legit pass sniper school from Ryan's videos of MOA, windage, DOPE, and Angle.
Whoa. I got into the firearms 10 years ago and Ryan's long range rifle video is one of the first videos I watched 😎
Ryan is so practical and common sense. I love that. Don’t need the drama of overthinking this stuff.
Cleckner talks shooting people targets, not paper targets. He literally wrote the book on long range shooting. I would trust his judgment and experience on the subject. He's very graceful and pretty humble considering...
Iv just discovered your videos all the way from Ireland 🇮🇪 and the knowledge behind both of you guys is astonishing. Such a fantastic informative interview. Thanks to you both, it has opened my eyes a little more to things i have not considered
Thank you for your time Mr. Cleckner. And thank you for all of the instructional videos you've made over the years. They are the first place I suggest new shooters should go because they helped me so much and are easy for the novice to understand. "Go watch ALL of Ryan Cleckner's videos and then do what you want from there". Best advice I can give. Big thanks to the NSSF also, of course.
f.cking awesome. Ryan and Erik having a chat and I'm learning while feeling entertained. Perfect storm, thanks guys!
Eric, the cat's out of the bag...................Ryan, is an easy-going book of knowledge, what an excellent interview !!
I got your book (Long Rang Shooting Handbook) ...it's amazingly easy to read and follow. Thanks for your service and the Book Brother
ONE OF THE BEST INTERVIEWS!
After I bought and thoroughly read Ryan Cleckner's long range shooting handbook. I have gotten way better at it. I'm excited for the new 7mm PRC rifle to reach out farther than my .308.
Big thanks to Chris Way for nominating Ryan and big thanks to Ryan for doing it. His videos and book have greatly influenced my ideals towards the shooting sports
The varying angles of these interviews is fascinating and highly informative.
Eric,
Time to interview “The Real Gunsmith” Randy Selby. He has a very different point of view.
And is very happy to share his opinion.
That would be cool.
@@hulley5223 Thank you for the comment,
Randy knew/knows most of the original developers of the modern rifle community and has been instrumental in several different cartridge's development process and testing. Not to disparage his Gunsmithing skills they speak for themselves. I think it would be a highly interesting interview and would really highlight Eric's desire of seeing things from a different perspective for learning and growing our close community of riflemen.
Gonna give this a thumbs up even prior to watching. Always look forward to hearing Ryan speak
Maybe my favorite interview so far. Have to do a part 2 .
Part two is a must
RYAN “Perfect is the enemy of good!”
About shooting a clean barrel, I have a 6 mm Creedmoor that's just passed 2000 rounds and should be nearing retirement. I find it takes a lot more shots after cleaning it to get it to shoot good again, compared to a 1000 rounds ago. It used to be 1 or 2 shots to get it good, now it's 10.
Stop removing carbine fouling it fills in the gaps in old barrels
Love Cleckner!
Amazing! great series!
Thanks again Erik great with you and Ryan really enjoyed this👍
I am loving hearing you guys share your experiences.
Could listen to these two talk for days and days!
Two legends.
This is such a great series Eric. It's so cool to listen to you and the folks you bring on discuss a wide variety of topics. Thanks!
That was one of the best talks I've listen to on gun shop talk ever, Thanks!
Always enjoy watching Ryan's vids. He's a really good instructor.
Ryan is my favorite - this was epic. Part II can’t happen fast enough!!!
I'm with both of you
Love the simplicity of explanation of you and Ryan. Confirmed my thought process and keeps me outtta the weeds.
Erik your interviews are bringing monsters to the midway for a lot of people, Thanks!
Enjoyed this interview. I enjoy Ryan's style of teaching, very practical.
-After graduating from my Red Ryder to a Benjamin pistol and finally to a 22, I had way more time then money. I practiced dry firing at a spot on the wall of my bedroom. I called it snap shooting. Throw the rifle up and squeeze. A successful shot was when perfect sight picture was perceived at the click. Eventually I learned to do it with both eyes open and when I got my first scope I could nail a squirrel running on a tree limb. (If it wasn't too far away, maybe ten or twelve yards.) I had a little clip fed Mossberg with the fold down forearm. Those were the days. Practice works.
Great pod cast Erik. Hope you bring Ryan back. I really everything Ryan has put out. Thanks
RC is amazing. Need more of him.
Love Ryan Cleckner! Long range instructions I can actually understand!
Love you to Erik. 😂
Awesome job!!!!!
Great episode Erik! Ryan taught me a lot on my long range journey via his NSSF videos and his book. Keep ‘em coming.
Erik, Im impressed with the lineup of this channel. Youre doing a great job keep it up!
I've watched several of these but by far this is my favorite. Thanks for putting these together.
Glad you like them!
Wow! What information. ! ! More from this guy- like a gun legal encyclopedia. Great interview, can’t wait for the sequel.
This is pure awesomeness! There is some great info here
Learning is all about making the mistakes Eric, the knowledge is knowing not making the same mistake a second time. Merry Christmas from Ireland we love you xoxo
Good conversation guys! I competed in F class myself and used a REM 700 SPS .308 in FPR. Out of the box I could hold my own with the rifle finish 1/2 nd on a regular basis. Then the guy I was head to head with began the equipment upgrade game so I did the same. Took it to Alton Brit at Dixie precision, new PTG bolt, true up barrel and receiver, made the rifle a superb shooter.
Then I shot a PRS train up match with George Garner and other PRS guys. Did well on first match but second got my rear end handed to me because my mental game was not on that day in reference to your software comment Eric. Keep it up guys!
Love all the good info, have listened to both of you on individual show this was good
Awesome! just awesome video!
My personal favorite "believe" interview so far as a hunter shooter. Great mental material for a broader understanding of what affects performance in shooting!
i really enjoyed this interview.
My favorite book on long range shooting is Cleckner's book. And I have used his targets for bore sighting. His philosophy sticks with me. Focus on the reticle, not the target. Shoot tactically. A hit on the target zone is a hit. And that works perfectly for deer hunting, which is what I do.
I got Ryan’s book for Christmas and it perfect for a newb like me for LR shooting. Been following Erik on shooting and construction for a while. Great interview and look forward to seeing more.
Ryan was my first entree into long range shooting. Really great starting instruction. I shoot a ton of handgun and am pretty good. I still flinch. It’s why if I’m trying to shoot small groups - first few shots are blind fires then some warmup drills.
Thanks! Well done 👍
Thank you too!
I’m a hunter. I shoot bench, standing supported, standing freehand, kneeling, and prone. I even shoot handgun and shotgun clays 3 position. I also shoot 5 dry for every 5 live like Erik recommends. If you want good Elk hunting stories, check out Randy Selby.
1moa low at 1k yds is from the decreased resistance from the barrel when it's clean and lubed. The dirty barrel has more friction resulting in the increased pressure. I agree with you guys! You guys are great! Thank you!
Great podcast guys. I love listening to two shooters discuss their trade with common sense and no bravado. Two guys that I would love to bend an elbow with someday. Cheers gentlemen, keep it up...
Crosman 760 Pumpmaster practice makes me a better big gun shooter. The 760 does not move much after discharge, which shows if one has a 'bad body set up' if the scope moves after discharge. A 1 inch target at 30 feet shows me any movement of the crosshairs when my body (all parts) moves at discharge. When body set up is right the crosshairs should not leave the 1 inch target at discharge.
Excellent interview. So many topics that I teach in my long range hunting class. I just don't articulate it as well when asked.
Love it..Thanks
Our pleasure!
Great conversation to point out the differences between range work and field work and what the needs of each really are. Soldier is happy with a hit, kill is a bonus, hunter is usually only happy with a kill, range work can be happy with a hit, or a tiny group, depending on the specific application. The legal aspect is another can of worms that far too many gun owners do not comprehend and cannot be explained to the public anywhere nearly enough.
Nice! Erik you have a real talent for this podcasting.
Tuner suppressor sounds like a winner!
This guy is so cool. It would be great to learn from him.
The higher velocity after the first shot is due to carbon lubricating the barrel, when talking to a gunsmith many years ago he like the carbon in the necks of the cases for the lubrication, carbon in the barrel is good until it builds up to much , then affects the accuracy, when i check a load for a match and look at my es i will always discount the first shot
These are 2 of 3 of my go to sources for legit info. The 3rd is Bryan Litz. Ryan's book was my first read and that lead to his videos. At the suggestion of my coach/owner of range I moved on to the Applied Ballistics series. While absorbing all this material one thing rings loud and clear from these 3 guys. The 2 things that matters most are fundamentals and consistency and those 2 things apply to shooting and reloading. The new shiny thing.. be it a new rifle chambering, or the latest reloading gear is always cool, but without the fundamentals AND consistency the rest is meaningless.
The other thing to take note of with these guys is they have the same open mindset. When a person closes their mind to new ideas or ongoing training they get left behind.
Thank you both for sharing your wealth of knowledge. It has had a very positive impact to my learning.
I got to say one thing about the S&B ammo talk, S&B made ammo for hunting purposes long before Hornady and Berger was even invented and they know how to make it cheaper and better
I got 8mm Mauser ammo from S&B with the cutting edge bullet and that stuff is amazing there is no Berger or Hornady what can compete with that in velocity or bullet performance
So what I’m saying is if they want to make target ammo they can
But the whole interview was great and I learn a thing or two
This confirms my observations, I am a newer long range shooter. Was at the range just trying to hone my skills and get an idea how the gun and I shoot. 19 of 20 shots were 1 MOA with the outlier pushing the group to 1.6 MOA. I can't say why the outlier was that far out of the rest of the group, my hope and expectation it was me not the factory ammo or the gun. I dry fire a fair bit, my fire target is a light bulb at 166 yards.
Never thought of it this way...interesting!
Eric instead of “burns it away” I’ve thought of it as “adds lubricity” I’m not a chemist but I feel like if you took a bunch of powder. Whatever kind. And got white gloves on and rubbed it in between your fingers. You know you’d see that staining you get when you leave powder in something for a while. It stains right? So whatever that liquid is in powder I think it’s actually that. It’s almost like it does have a super fine coating or saturation of oil in it. Obviously you could pre oil a barrel and shoot it but that’s not the same or remotely consistent, so sure swab it before the line. But I’m in agreement. It’s not heat. And I don’t really think it’s filling cracks for efficiency either. I think it’s just burnt powder is more of a faster surface than bare metal. My .02$
Thanks fellas . I like to follow Erik for his reloading and Ryan for his common sense shooting videos . Had no idea he was an attorney. Oh ya Erik im thinking i need a supressor tuner!
I'm happy about the mentioning S&B ammo, especially because it's from my country, CZECH. We shoot this ammo up too 1000 meters with comparatrive results to premium ammo like Hornady, Lapua ... we are on shortage of berger's components few years so this comparison is not available for now . The match (red boxes, with Lion on it, our national sign) are good
Great interview Believe in the Target ~ In your self shoot more shoot more often :)
Carbon fouling reduces friction a bit. Only takes one shot to get some carbon deposited in the barrel. Graphite lock lubricant is carbon.
After cleaning I’ll do dry fire and then fire a couple of shots then shoot for a group. It’s the way I was taught. I found that a horrible trigger is just horrible. I found a great trigger will give you a much tighter group.
Love silhouette shooting, now I like Eric even more 😊
Stumbled across a guy in the early 90s that built a couple of wildcat pistols for silhouette. I understood what he was talking about and we became great friends. He has passed away to the big range above, but his “stuff “ is cherished and in my possession till I can’t use, then I might allow his son a chance.
AS John Jacobs said about golf can be said about shooting, "Golf is what the ball does.", and so it applies with shooting. "Shooting is what the bullet does" and that, in the end, is what matters. How you get there can be of a different road, but it is all about the Believing the Target.
Like the old saying goes: "It's the _INDIAN_ not the ARROW!" The rifle doesn't miss, it's the shooter that's the loose nut behind the butt! For me, the only time it was legit my rifle's fault for a miss was from a cracked scope ring... Great video Erik!
Two awesome guys here. I'd love to learn to shoot and how to do load development from both
Erik I think some humility would do wonders for your show, great choice on the guest!
🤷♂️
Merry Christmas Erik!
Very good 👍 conversation between experienced marksman in this skill craft. I believe there a difference In between hunting humans versus animals. There a problem in today’s shooters putting to much weight on their gear. Rather than getting needed experience behind their weapon’s. I’ll never understand why the Marine Corps discontinued their Scout Sniper program. You’re correct ✅ that cross training should be happening. Very important.
Semper Fi
Great information not biased by a sales motive...fresh these days. Keep it coming as I'm heading off to "Patron's-VILLE." :)
Thank you
I’ve had almost opposite experience in PRS. The RO would call impact when the shooter missed just because the RO didn’t see the shot. This happened countless times.
As a hunter and I have been hunting whitetail for a long time, being what most would call an old fart by todays standards. I have learned to follow F Class and Bench shooters advice and Of course not for the field. But instead for how good to try an make your equipment work. As Erik has stated in other videos, If he is not shooting a 1/4 or less at 100 yards or making them all in the same hole. The barrel is history. As a hunter many may say well that's nuts. But if you attempt to apply it as much as possible and try to achieve the discipline. It will makes sense. Out of all my hunts, even still today containing your excitement when you see that trophy buck at the distance is difficult to do unless you dead from the waist up. So throw in all the factors, DEAD cold bore, One shot if lucky not 20, surrounding temp very cold. In an unfamiliar area. Just spent 6K on the hunt. You already see the Buck on the wall. Your blood pressure and heart rate. Is shaking the tree stand. Yeah you want to be as sharp as a pencile on paper, Because on the Field. Your luck if you can hit a stop sign at 75 yards.
I've never clicked a video so fast in my life !!
Eric, Hope you and your family had a Merry Christmas and have a happy New Year.
Let me give you some food for thought here on the clean bore first shot lower velocity thing... This will be a bit lengthy as I want to give full details of my testing and findings.
To start, I 100% agree that I dont really think there is a "cold bore" error problem but there is definitely a "clean bore" error problem and like you, from everything I've personally seen, that first shot is always (or almost always at minimum) slower.
With that said, after watching this video for this video for the first time Wednesday, I did a bit a testing on this between yesterday and today and think I can answer what is going on. Its not residue or what not like you suspect left in from cleaning causing the barrel to be "more slippery" but actually the opposite, clean bore is resulting in more friction and thus causing the bullet to be slower (and pressure to be higher).
How I tested this was being a Mechanist by trade and having access to an optical comparator at work among other measuring and testing equipment, I went though a 100 ct pack of CCI BR2 primers that I have and found about 2 dozen that were identical to within .0002" of each other in overall height variation (measured variation on an inspection granite surface plate with a tenths indicator) then took all them to the optical comparator and found 10 that were as Identical as I could see in the comparator with regards to their corner radius and the doming of the primer itself by making a drawing in AutoCAD to use as a profile template for the corner radius and doming printed on transparency to use on the OC.
With those 10 in hand and knowing that I have a really good load worked up for one of my rifles, I loaded up the 10 rounds. Yesterdays testing was 5 rounds that were done in a clean bore each time with also a 30min cool down period between each one with a barrel cooler through it for that 30 minutes. So essentially each shoot was though a clean bore and barrel at ambient temp. The only thing I didn't do was clean after the 5th shot so that way todays testing started on a single shot fouled bore.
Todays testing was the same, just no cleaning between shots and to compensate for the "extra cooldown" that the cleaning + 30min cooldown with barrel cooler resulted in, I let the rifle sit for 45min with the barrel cooler running between each shot rather than 30 like yesterdays testing.
All shots were shot over a Crono (didn't look for on target variation because I did this at home and I can only safely shot to 150yrd at home and had a very specific reason for doing it home). The reason for doing it home was so that all shots, cooldown and cleaning could be done in a climate controlled environment so to mitigate any possible outside ambient air temp difference causing any errors. The crono results showed exactly what I expected to see, the 5 shots on clean bore yesterday were all slower, between 25 and 30fts slower with the group vs. group average being 28fps slower for the 5 clean bore shots.
Now here's where it gets interesting about the pressures. Rather than pushing out the primers as one normally would and risk possibly deforming them from their "As Fired" state, I took the shells up to work this afternoon and turned the heads down on each shell to where the primers fell out on their own. Then I took them over to the OC to compare them all back to the profile drawing and although it wasn't much, it could be seen that the 5 clean bore fired primers had ever so slightly more flattening and ever so slightly more squared off shoulders so it was clearly evident that those 5 were seeing higher pressure. I didn't bother to measure the relative heights between them since the visual on the comparator was enough to know that there was going to be a measurable relative height difference, plus I had to get back home and get stuff taken care of for tomorrow (wife was on my back about getting the smoker going before 6 this evening because of what time she wants everything to be ready by tomorrow. Anyways.....)
So to see higher pressure yet have slower velocity, the only reasonable / logical explanation is that there is more friction in the clean bore slowing the bullet which in turn is causing an increase in pressure, or at least peak pressure. This makes sense too when you consider that Bench Rest shooters mitigate the problem by using Lock Ease (i.e., powdered graphite lubricant) as it is acting as a lubricant between the bullet and barrel (i.e., reducing the friction between the bullet and the barrel). The same thing is occurring via the microscopic residue left from the burnt power after the first or second shot without using Lock Ease (i.e., the residue left from the burnt powder is acting as the lubricant to reduce the friction between the bullet and barrel on subsequent shots).
Would like to hear from Ryan about Terminal Ballistics. Like bullets and speed.
That would be great!
The truth has been spoken
I found it's best to listen to the ignorance as if interested, and politely change topic or break the discussion for some other event which is a priority. Although, if is time is available, one should educate. Anothto engage in discussion for which we
I would love to have guidance from either one of these gentleman.
Clean barrel definitely has a POI change on all my guns. Mine aren’t necessarily low.
I found it's best to listen to the ignorance as if interested, and politely change topic or break the discussion for some other event which is a priority. Although, if is time is available, one should educate. Anotto engage in discussion for which we
Clicked on this one right away.
@believethetarget my belief of the dirty vs clean barrel is pressure. I think a dirty bore holds higher pressure than a clean bore. Because, a dirty bore is technically smaller in diameter.
I think it’s the cold barrel steel not holding bullet as tight as the others due to expansion reasons. Some of the barrel grows in and some grows outward in every direction as it’s warming up. That little bit of growth might be enough to give you the difference in FPS? Thermal dynamic’s. What do you think?
My old man used to always say, believe half of what you read and none of what you hear. Generally a good starting