Not to mention the games athletes were faced with a lot more volume and stress by this point, and weren't so comfortable the entire games that they didn't have to go 110 everytime
Ricardo Cajal Froning has the heart and the strength to compete but he doesn't have the individuals mentality anymore, on the individuals you are pushing to finish as fast as you can, Mat did an amazing job at every single event he knows his body and he wasn't taking it to fast as a lot of people always do, that's what made him unstoppable on the 2016 Games. So even if Froning was resting it's irrelevant to say that Froning gave him the win or stuff like that, Froning was resting because he was out of air he started the event to fast. If he had other competitors pushing him as Mat Fraser he would have still lost because of minor rests.
It doesn't matter, Rich beat him already when it mattered to him, when he was ( as another person mentioned on here ) in an "individual mentality." Rich Froning doesn't need to prove himself to anyone anymore, he dominated individuals events/games and now is doing it on the team events/games. You know is telling how great he was and is still even when Dave Castro, is bummed out that he (froning) didn't want to do the 2017 open and compete versus Pachin, Cager and Fraser in 17.3. Froning is a mentoring level now, Fraser is in fact still chasing froning, remember Rich taught him everything that he knows now. Not taking away anything from Matt because you still need to go out there and put the work in and diet but Rich is still big daddy ( no homo).
Davide Yeah but Froning did rest some extra seconds, on individuals Mat would have still crushed him, on indivuduals the goal is to go fast but not exhausting yourself which is what Froning did in this event.
Rich got much better technique than Matt. The thing is that Matt is just pushing it a lot harder. In those circumstances as they were in at that time, I have no doubt Rich would wreck Matt if side by side.
If Rich didn't stop individual, Frazer wouldn't have stood a chance. Just take Smith as an example, he did compete against Froning several times, but only won against Frazer. Frazer is a brute and he have even trained quite some time with Rich (at Rich's place) that year, which may had helped him to get that victory. Froning did not have much competition, he wasn't the best in all categories, but he surely did win over and over. Rich froning needed more competition, I think Frazer would have given him some, but not that much.
I am not taking anything away from either athlete,they are both incredibly, ridiculously fit, and are both champions. The the difference comes down to goals and how they do workouts. Matt's goal was to win as an individual where Rich was working with a team. We all know the Rich is a pacing master and goes as fast as the people around him pushes him to go. Matt was just so fit that he absolutely destroyed the field. They are both in different time of CrossFit journeys so I think comparing them in this way is a little unfair. That being said though Matt was absolutely breathtaking during the games, no one had ever done what he did. Rich was also awesome in his field as a team a fantastic team leader. They are both what the Games are all about :)
Don't get me wrong, Froning is a very fit individual. But he's a tactician, he didn't win the games all those years because he just absolutely dominated the field. He did it by strategy and timing. Fraser, Fraser was a beast in a cage. That Ben Bergeron set loose. He out works people, period. His strategy is simple, GO AND DONT STOP TIL YOURE DONE. He has strategy but it's not to the extent of worrying about where everyone is and forcing them to burn out and then capitalizing on it like Froning. If you could take Fronings mind, Bergerons programming, and put it in Fraser's body. You'd have someone who quite possibly would win everything.
I'm sorry, but Froning dominated the entire games starting with the opens. Fraser is great as well, I don't know why we have to try to drag one guy down to elevate the other.
Bob Wilson Actually Mat Fraser dominated in the Regionals and at some Open workouts, and Mat Fraser's performance on the 2016 Games was amazingly compared to any Froning performance in any of his 4 Games wins, before the 3rd day started Mat had pretty much won the Crossfit Games and yet he didn't stopped his performance, people didn't even expected him to drop from first place which is a complete different story if you have seen Rich's Games where he developed nice in an event and then on another he finished in the middle of the pack.
What are you talking about? Rich is the full package. He dominated. Also, being tactical is a huge part of the games; like there is no point of being 10 reps a head or 10 sec a head. You only need to win.
Open? Regionals? Come on. Rich hates those and FYI many of the top athletes don't put as much effort into those. You can find many people high ranked on the open that doesn't even make it to the games. It is nonsense. The open is very dependent on the competition. No sense of winning with a surplus. The good crossfit athletes knows that recovering is important, which is why the leaderboard at the games always starts a bit messed up.
Feels like you are trying to egg Rich into coming back. Once Fraser has 4, we can start debating this. At this point, we are asking if Steph Curry is better than Jordan.
sinatrashotya but what about the fact Fraser won by the largest margin in history. He didn't even have to compete in the last even to win, but he took first just to assert dominance.
You make it sound like it was the 80's. He still competes and he was individual only 3 years ago. And he beat Fraser then. I'm not saying Fraser isn't capable of winning, I'm saying that Froning has 4 first place finishes in Individual and 2 first place finishes in team in 6 years. Without Froning, the whole competitive landscape isn't on the level it is on now.
@@sinatrashotya Your forgetting that Fraser has two 2nd place wins as well as the three 1st, that coupled with a possible 4th win. Would that not make him the most successful CrossFit Games athlete of all time?
I like both athletes. I like Rich much more. I think he is much more enjoyable to watch. He's much more graceful when moving. However, Matt would have beat him. I hope we'll never know for sure. Regardless, Froning will always be as legendary as Spealer, Khalipa and Smith. Matt is probably on his way to the same.
Braulio Garcia Mat is an unstoppable force if he stays the same way for the next years, the domination at the 2016 Games was just unreal, people weren't even expecting him to drop from the first place and yet he kept pushing on the 3rd day because he wanted to dominate everyone and don't let anyone dream with getting 1st place.
Mat is a beast ... I think that he's a great heart help him to win every challenge vs himself and the other competitors. It's not simple make a wod without stop. someone said that Froning is better because he is more technical but is beautiful to see Mat start not very well but so confident in himself and win this challange.
No way either of them would have paced as much if they would have been head to head. Two different goals. Had the two gone head to head, no doubt, rich wins. Period. Not by much, but he wins.
Paul Floyd No he wouldn't, Froning was actually exhausted you can see by how he breaths he pushed to hard on the beggining and that's why he had to stop for some seconds to breath, if he had done that against Mat he would have crushed him easily, Mat Fraser's performance was WAY stronger than any Froning performance at the Games.
No, he wouldnt.. Rich put his family as an excuse to avoid lose as an individual competitor and change to teams to not have the complete pressure if didnt win
I’m still unsure why they don’t try to PPV a competition between the two. 5 events head to head, minimal breaks, 3 Hours total. If the money is right, they’d be down. Make it happen, Dave.
Froning isnt beating Fraser now. No way Froning comes back with all the new competition and is top dog again, but man it would be awesome to see him do it for fans sake.
Matt lost against Smith the year before (who had been no competition to Rich). Either Smith had gotten some super elixir for that year, or else Matt just wasn't that good.
Fraser is fitter Froning is a better competitor/pacer/strategist. That's pretty clear at this point. As for who would win with both at their prime, it would be close but I think it would come down to Rich's weaknesses in distance running and swimming. His lower placing in those events would likely give Fraser the edge to pull out the win.
based on shadows it appears that Fraser either had an earlier or later event time and likely less heat to deal with. Froning looks like he was out at around mid day. Can anyone corroborate this?
Rich probably had a floor temperature that was 10-15 degrees hotter than Matt, maybe even 20 degrees. No joke when Rich did that event the sun was beating down.
Clinton Hill nah, there is 20x more people doing the open now a days. competition is way harder then some of the bullshit we saw in 2011. Winning in 2016 is way way way more impressive then in 2011.
All the top athletes come to Froning's gym for training. Rich is a warrior and a natural leader. And, I don't care how many times Fraser wins...Froning will always be better.
lo que tiene rich froning es que no importa la presion que tenga siempre camina y se toma su tiempo....y creo que eso pues le resta segundos valiosos si no seria el mejor en todo
Castro, really? how can you compare both of them even if it is the same workout? Rich was even taking his time since he had no one "chasing"him. If Fraser could beat Rich he would have done it when Rich competed in individual and I agree as one of your piers once said "the one way we can tell someone yes you beat Rich Froning is until they compete head to head and we can see it" but like this?! Quit your bromance with Fraser and move on. Fraser is a great athlete but sorry can't compare them also reason being workouts change and each individual is different each year.
Or his work ethic? As soon as he is bad at something he works it until he is one of the best. Lost one year because of rope climbing, the next time he was by far the best at it. Lost some points because of swimming, now is way better. He works on his own, non stop
Unfair on both sides. Fraser had it all locked up, imagine how much faster he would have gone/could have gone. Also, different mindset for Froning. Post 16.5 video again. Fraser dominated.
Same situation for Rich and Mat they both had secure the 1st place but Fraser went unbroken and he left no doubt of his dominance... end of the discussion
both of these guys are absolute ahed of every human being ever existed so salute both of them. Fraser is i think the more likable one and ironing a little bit fitter.
Rich was the best of his time. But Fraser beats him on too many levels: he is more dominant, in a period where crossfit is more competitive. He is stronger, has a crazy work ethic. I love rich but Fraser is just being on another level
This is not even a fair comparision! Rich was way ahead of fraser in the the first minutes but the other teams thar were facing him didnt come even close to him, so Rich just was able to control the wod and have a easy win! Fraser on the other hand add fikowisky on is tail all the time, and he did what he do best and pushed is pace, but i guarantee u thar Rich would beat him if nedeed in this workout! The 2 of them are monsters, and the best athletes in the history of crossfit, but in my opinion that would be a win for rich if needed
Fraser is an absolute beast no question, to be fair all the elite Crossfit athletes are, but until Crossfit start using an official, Olympic level drug testing program (USADA) then I won't accept these guys are 100% natty, no way!
titus flavius Fraser has a winning mentality which can be seen as arrogant, but to him winning is everything and that's why he developed better on the 2016 Games than any other Froning's Games in the past.
Lol...go watch a documentary on fraser...the dude broke his back and worked in an oilfield for two years. The only person that can't touch the other is you in comparison to either of these men.
The only difference in those :40 seconds, is that Rich was walking and resting just because he didn't have anyone pushing him for the 1st place
Not to mention the games athletes were faced with a lot more volume and stress by this point, and weren't so comfortable the entire games that they didn't have to go 110 everytime
Ricardo Cajal Froning has the heart and the strength to compete but he doesn't have the individuals mentality anymore, on the individuals you are pushing to finish as fast as you can, Mat did an amazing job at every single event he knows his body and he wasn't taking it to fast as a lot of people always do, that's what made him unstoppable on the 2016 Games.
So even if Froning was resting it's irrelevant to say that Froning gave him the win or stuff like that, Froning was resting because he was out of air he started the event to fast.
If he had other competitors pushing him as Mat Fraser he would have still lost because of minor rests.
Ricardo Cajal exactly individual competitors are probably trashed by now where as team feel much better.
Jose Albarran Froning choose family before individual! this is the only difference!
It doesn't matter, Rich beat him already when it mattered to him, when he was ( as another person mentioned on here ) in an "individual mentality." Rich Froning doesn't need to prove himself to anyone anymore, he dominated individuals events/games and now is doing it on the team events/games. You know is telling how great he was and is still even when Dave Castro, is bummed out that he (froning) didn't want to do the 2017 open and compete versus Pachin, Cager and Fraser in 17.3. Froning is a mentoring level now, Fraser is in fact still chasing froning, remember Rich taught him everything that he knows now. Not taking away anything from Matt because you still need to go out there and put the work in and diet but Rich is still big daddy ( no homo).
Este tipo es de otro planeta. Cómo dió vuelta el partido. Un campeón de verdad
Unfair comparison, Rich just worried about staying in front of his 9 other competitors.. He even walked at the end
Davide Yeah but Froning did rest some extra seconds, on individuals Mat would have still crushed him, on indivuduals the goal is to go fast but not exhausting yourself which is what Froning did in this event.
lol
Rich got much better technique than Matt. The thing is that Matt is just pushing it a lot harder. In those circumstances as they were in at that time, I have no doubt Rich would wreck Matt if side by side.
Davide ya but matt has already won the games and didn’t have to do anything but still beat him
Unfair comparison IMO, if Rich had the same level of competition as Mat (ie. team vs individual) then I'd guess it'd be a lot closer.
If Rich didn't stop individual, Frazer wouldn't have stood a chance. Just take Smith as an example, he did compete against Froning several times, but only won against Frazer. Frazer is a brute and he have even trained quite some time with Rich (at Rich's place) that year, which may had helped him to get that victory. Froning did not have much competition, he wasn't the best in all categories, but he surely did win over and over. Rich froning needed more competition, I think Frazer would have given him some, but not that much.
castro = the ultimate troll
Castroll
I am not taking anything away from either athlete,they are both incredibly, ridiculously fit, and are both champions. The the difference comes down to goals and how they do workouts. Matt's goal was to win as an individual where Rich was working with a team. We all know the Rich is a pacing master and goes as fast as the people around him pushes him to go. Matt was just so fit that he absolutely destroyed the field. They are both in different time of CrossFit journeys so I think comparing them in this way is a little unfair. That being said though Matt was absolutely breathtaking during the games, no one had ever done what he did. Rich was also awesome in his field as a team a fantastic team leader. They are both what the Games are all about :)
Can you write out the workout in your description?
Don't get me wrong, Froning is a very fit individual. But he's a tactician, he didn't win the games all those years because he just absolutely dominated the field. He did it by strategy and timing. Fraser, Fraser was a beast in a cage. That Ben Bergeron set loose. He out works people, period. His strategy is simple, GO AND DONT STOP TIL YOURE DONE. He has strategy but it's not to the extent of worrying about where everyone is and forcing them to burn out and then capitalizing on it like Froning. If you could take Fronings mind, Bergerons programming, and put it in Fraser's body. You'd have someone who quite possibly would win everything.
I'm sorry, but Froning dominated the entire games starting with the opens. Fraser is great as well, I don't know why we have to try to drag one guy down to elevate the other.
Bob Wilson Actually Mat Fraser dominated in the Regionals and at some Open workouts, and Mat Fraser's performance on the 2016 Games was amazingly compared to any Froning performance in any of his 4 Games wins, before the 3rd day started Mat had pretty much won the Crossfit Games and yet he didn't stopped his performance, people didn't even expected him to drop from first place which is a complete different story if you have seen Rich's Games where he developed nice in an event and then on another he finished in the middle of the pack.
What are you talking about? Rich is the full package. He dominated. Also, being tactical is a huge part of the games; like there is no point of being 10 reps a head or 10 sec a head. You only need to win.
noquaz that's exactly my point Matt didn't treat it like that. He didn't go out and perform just enough to win, he went out and went hard EVERY time.
Open? Regionals? Come on. Rich hates those and FYI many of the top athletes don't put as much effort into those. You can find many people high ranked on the open that doesn't even make it to the games. It is nonsense. The open is very dependent on the competition. No sense of winning with a surplus. The good crossfit athletes knows that recovering is important, which is why the leaderboard at the games always starts a bit messed up.
"Yea baby!" 😆👌
Temp was blazing when Rich went.
Castro why? That comparing apples to oranges. Two different goals
What is this event?
This guy is amazinggggg
Unfair Comparison.. Who knows what these guys would do head to head ... I remember 16.5 though...
Feels like you are trying to egg Rich into coming back. Once Fraser has 4, we can start debating this. At this point, we are asking if Steph Curry is better than Jordan.
sinatrashotya but what about the fact Fraser won by the largest margin in history. He didn't even have to compete in the last even to win, but he took first just to assert dominance.
Not to mention the games were shorter and easier back when Rich was competing.
You make it sound like it was the 80's. He still competes and he was individual only 3 years ago. And he beat Fraser then. I'm not saying Fraser isn't capable of winning, I'm saying that Froning has 4 first place finishes in Individual and 2 first place finishes in team in 6 years. Without Froning, the whole competitive landscape isn't on the level it is on now.
Fraser gets his 4th title at the games there won't be a debate. How many podium wins has Froning had as an individual at the Games?
@@sinatrashotya Your forgetting that Fraser has two 2nd place wins as well as the three 1st, that coupled with a possible 4th win. Would that not make him the most successful CrossFit Games athlete of all time?
I like both athletes. I like Rich much more. I think he is much more enjoyable to watch. He's much more graceful when moving. However, Matt would have beat him. I hope we'll never know for sure. Regardless, Froning will always be as legendary as Spealer, Khalipa and Smith. Matt is probably on his way to the same.
Braulio Garcia Mat is an unstoppable force if he stays the same way for the next years, the domination at the 2016 Games was just unreal, people weren't even expecting him to drop from the first place and yet he kept pushing on the 3rd day because he wanted to dominate everyone and don't let anyone dream with getting 1st place.
Congratulations two you both Rich and Mat
Mat is a beast ... I think that he's a great heart help him to win every challenge vs himself and the other competitors. It's not simple make a wod without stop. someone said that Froning is better because he is more technical but is beautiful to see Mat start not very well but so confident in himself and win this challange.
rich froning is still the man!
A lot of excuses for Rich😂 Family, heat, age, competition, you can admit Mat is the 🐐 and not take away from Rich being a legend.
No way either of them would have paced as much if they would have been head to head. Two different goals. Had the two gone head to head, no doubt, rich wins. Period. Not by much, but he wins.
Paul Floyd No he wouldn't, Froning was actually exhausted you can see by how he breaths he pushed to hard on the beggining and that's why he had to stop for some seconds to breath, if he had done that against Mat he would have crushed him easily, Mat Fraser's performance was WAY stronger than any Froning performance at the Games.
No, he wouldnt.. Rich put his family as an excuse to avoid lose as an individual competitor and change to teams to not have the complete pressure if didnt win
I’m still unsure why they don’t try to PPV a competition between the two. 5 events head to head, minimal breaks, 3 Hours total. If the money is right, they’d be down. Make it happen, Dave.
Froning isnt beating Fraser now. No way Froning comes back with all the new competition and is top dog again, but man it would be awesome to see him do it for fans sake.
castro why you do dis??
Rich has to come back at least for one more go around as an individual. This match up would be EPIC!!
Matt lost against Smith the year before (who had been no competition to Rich). Either Smith had gotten some super elixir for that year, or else Matt just wasn't that good.
Hes very pussy
Fraser is fitter Froning is a better competitor/pacer/strategist. That's pretty clear at this point. As for who would win with both at their prime, it would be close but I think it would come down to Rich's weaknesses in distance running and swimming. His lower placing in those events would likely give Fraser the edge to pull out the win.
Apesar de tudo, eu gosto mais do estilo do Froning.
Not to mention the toll of the individual competition compared to the team workouts.
They are both fit.
based on shadows it appears that Fraser either had an earlier or later event time and likely less heat to deal with. Froning looks like he was out at around mid day. Can anyone corroborate this?
Rich probably had a floor temperature that was 10-15 degrees hotter than Matt, maybe even 20 degrees. No joke when Rich did that event the sun was beating down.
Dont forget that team wods major times are shorter than individual wods
I don't think this really counts since rich was so ahead of his heat he didn't care to go hard since he didn't need to.
matt could of sat that event out and still won the games .. guess it shows mat doesnt quit no matter what
i thought froning was in the teams for 2016
no i think bridges is the SEAL.
I didn't think ironing competed at the 2016 games?
Frazer needs to win 3 more times.
Clinton Hill nah, there is 20x more people doing the open now a days. competition is way harder then some of the bullshit we saw in 2011. Winning in 2016 is way way way more impressive then in 2011.
2 MORE TIMES
1 more time
He did it
0 times:)
All the top athletes come to Froning's gym for training. Rich is a warrior and a natural leader. And, I don't care how many times Fraser wins...Froning will always be better.
Mat é foda d+ sem condições
🔰🔰🔰
Forever Froning!!
Probably 20 degrees cooler by the time Fraser went
2016 mat vs froning is ambiguous but 2019 mat vs 2012 froning (my opinion his best performance) is no question mat wins
Maybe Rich will go individual again!?!? I know he won't be because he wants to spend time with his family, but its nice to dream :)
lo que tiene rich froning es que no importa la presion que tenga siempre camina y se toma su tiempo....y creo que eso pues le resta segundos valiosos si no seria el mejor en todo
There is still only currently ONE CHAMP, time will tell though!!!
Mat could win 5 more titles, but he will never beat Rich in people's heart.
Who? Fraser? Because he's coming for another year in individuals
It is not a fair comparison because clearly Rich regulates his intensity throughout the event
There is no Matt vs Rich anymore. Matt is the GOAT, its Matt vs Everyone and Froning
mat is a sport man and rich anabolic man
I’m just here for the comments
Castro, really? how can you compare both of them even if it is the same workout? Rich was even taking his time since he had no one "chasing"him. If Fraser could beat Rich he would have done it when Rich competed in individual and I agree as one of your piers once said "the one way we can tell someone yes you beat Rich Froning is until they compete head to head and we can see it" but like this?! Quit your bromance with Fraser and move on. Fraser is a great athlete but sorry can't compare them also reason being workouts change and each individual is different each year.
The secret to Fraser's success is his massive legs dude.
And endurance
Or his work ethic?
As soon as he is bad at something he works it until he is one of the best.
Lost one year because of rope climbing, the next time he was by far the best at it.
Lost some points because of swimming, now is way better.
He works on his own, non stop
WingsOfAnarchy yeah he’s super good at pegboards now
Rich dont have rivals for that mat win
Unfair on both sides. Fraser had it all locked up, imagine how much faster he would have gone/could have gone. Also, different mindset for Froning. Post 16.5 video again. Fraser dominated.
Rich redid 16.5 and shaved off four seconds off Mat - go check the leaderboard
just chicken breast and protein shakes ...or not 🤔
Dont forget the aminos
Same situation for Rich and Mat they both had secure the 1st place but Fraser went unbroken and he left no doubt of his dominance... end of the discussion
Interesting to watch but not sure what the point is. Both men doing what was required to win.
Mat es una bestia.
both of these guys are absolute ahed of every human being ever existed so salute both of them. Fraser is i think the more likable one and ironing a little bit fitter.
вот это выносливые ребята капец просто... Ооооочень сильные ребята, я в шоке...
Build different
Rich is the greatest ever, no one is on his level and no one will be for a long time.
Have a look on fraser 2018 same event and compare .
Rich was the best of his time.
But Fraser beats him on too many levels: he is more dominant, in a period where crossfit is more competitive. He is stronger, has a crazy work ethic.
I love rich but Fraser is just being on another level
Hahahaha great joke
Too strong in the thrusters
XAMA 🔥
This is not even a fair comparision! Rich was way ahead of fraser in the the first minutes but the other teams thar were facing him didnt come even close to him, so Rich just was able to control the wod and have a easy win! Fraser on the other hand add fikowisky on is tail all the time, and he did what he do best and pushed is pace, but i guarantee u thar Rich would beat him if nedeed in this workout!
The 2 of them are monsters, and the best athletes in the history of crossfit, but in my opinion that would be a win for rich if needed
I googled pegging... what is this?
😂
if you think froning wouldn't have picked up the pace if he was next to fraser you're delusional
Fraser makes Rich dust
Rich did not complete in the games in 2016 as An individual somebody fucked that up
Not even gassed at all..
I like donuts
Bottom line Froning is the man he gotta do more than just train he has to be a husband and a father. He doesn’t live with his parents and just workout
Mat has massive legs.
whoever shows up on game day is the winner😤😤untill then . . .argue all u want 😅 zzzzzzZ
Froning all the way :)
Rich......
prova chata essa do pegboard...sem emocao alguma
Mat vs rich at the open ? 😏😏😏😏
Mat crushed Rich and Ben last year in their live announcement.
and rich went home and redid 16.5 by himself and beat frasers time by 4 secs. its on the leader board.
I say rematch !!!!!
Froning didnt compete at 2016 un the individuals
Two years after Rich retired! Who cares?
Once Fraser and if Fraser can win 4 in a row and 2 team wins in a row, then we can talk about who is better.
Well, he already wins 4 and he's coming again in individual
Fraser is an absolute beast no question, to be fair all the elite Crossfit athletes are, but until Crossfit start using an official, Olympic level drug testing program (USADA) then I won't accept these guys are 100% natty, no way!
What is the point of this? Rich only goes as hard as he needs to for the win.
Fraser dopped
The moment rich knew he wasn't winning 2015.
Rich didn't take care about winning a lot.
Froning>Fraser
We will see it
Fraser can't touch Froning. As an athlete or a person. Fraser is is arrogant Froning is a humble good man. Froning is a great role model.
titus flavius Fraser has a winning mentality which can be seen as arrogant, but to him winning is everything and that's why he developed better on the 2016 Games than any other Froning's Games in the past.
titus flavius do you know them personally you do?
titus flavius Rich put God first in his life and once he did he has done nothing but win in Crossfit.....
Froning believes in talking snakes.......not the best role model in the world when it comes to basic education
Lol...go watch a documentary on fraser...the dude broke his back and worked in an oilfield for two years. The only person that can't touch the other is you in comparison to either of these men.