Why Skepticism Is the Right Approach to the Afterlife, Immortality, and Utopia | Michael Shermer
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 10. 2017
- Why Skepticism Is the Right Approach to the Afterlife, Immortality, and Utopia
New videos DAILY: bigth.ink
Join Big Think Edge for exclusive video lessons from top thinkers and doers: bigth.ink/Edge
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bear with us for a second, but do you know the Belinda Carlisle song "Heaven is a Place on Earth"? It's actually scientifically accurate. American public intellectual Michael Shermer says that any idea of the afterlife makes zero sense: your mind and therefore your memories are beholden to your body and that any version of you that made it into heaven, should there actually be one, would just be a copy of you and unable to register that they were actually in heaven. Likewise, should you be able to scan your brain and "live forever" by being uploaded to a body in the future, it still wouldn't be you, just a copy. Confused? The explanation makes more sense from the mouth of Shermer himself... writing the theory behind multiple you's living in various timelines gets a little too Back to the Future... another sweet '80s reference if we do say so ourselves. Michael's latest book is Skeptic: Viewing the World with a Rational Eye.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MICHAEL SHERMER:
Dr. Michael Shermer is the Founding Publisher of
Skeptic magazine, a monthly columnist for Scientific American, and Presidential Fellow at Chapman University.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TRANSCRIPT:
Michael Shermer: Well, Heavens on Earth was something of an extension of my previous books, I have not covered the afterlife in any kind of detail from my previous books on the paranormal, the supernatural, religion, God, morality-and so this was sort of a natural extension of “well if you’re skeptical of all these other things what about the afterlife?” and my standard one liner is: “I’m for it.”
But the fact that I’m for it doesn’t make it true, in fact if anything the more passionately we want something to be true the more skeptical we should be of our own beliefs because we know how powerful these cognitive biases are to lead us to want to find evidence for what we already want to be true.
So I really kind of went in search of just all the standard religious theories of the afterlife and heaven. I go through the big three monotheisms, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and right there all of them have a history in the sense of all the different versions that there are of the afterlife and heaven and they’re quite different histories than say if you read a history of cosmology, which sort of shows a progression from the ancients through the scientific revolution, through the early modern period all the way up to today of us getting closer and closer to an understanding of the real nature of the cosmos.
But there’s nothing like that in religious histories of the afterlife, they’re all scattershot: this theory, this theory; there’s no sense of progress.
So that alone tells us that these are culturally determined, geographically located. like reincarnation, the belief that we come back in this world, our souls somehow migrate into other bodies: Why do they seem to hover all those souls in this subcontinent of India? There’s very few other places around the world where the souls seem to go. That’s an indication that these things are not real out there in the real world sense but real inside people’s heads as determined by their cultures.
But the core of Heavens on Earth really is the scientific search for the afterlife. And so this is what I do science writing and research and scientific areas, believe it or not this is no longer a fringe idea, this idea that we could live forever.
There are scientists today who say that the first person to live 1000 years is alive today. Okay I’m skeptical, but still these aren’t fringe nuts, these are billionaires like Peter Thiel, Jeff Bezos of Amazon, the Google guys Larry and Sergey have invested hundreds of millions of dollars in this company Calico, Ray Kurzweil is their chief engineer who believes in the singularity. So this whole idea of radical life extension, cryonics, trans humanism, the singularity, “we’re going to upload our minds into a computer,” these form the core center of my book and why I’m skeptical, why really all of us should be skeptical.
Because first, although it’s not impossible that these researchers and scientists are wrong, it’s just very unlikely, because the problems of say duplicating your soul whatever that would be, in science that would be your pattern of information-your genome-and then the equivalent of that, your “connect-ome,” that is the tracings of all your memories everything that’s you, this is...
For the full transcript, check out bigthink.com/videos/michael-s...
Want to get Smarter, Faster?
Subscribe for DAILY videos: bigth.ink/GetSmarter
The more passionate you are about something, the more skeptical you should be. Now those are some wise words that everyone of us should remember, always question your own beliefs wether political, religious or other.
I think he was saying "if you are passionate about something that you *want* to be true".
If I am passionate about electric cars I don't need to be skeptical that they are a good means of transport. However if I want electric cars to replace petrol cars in the next 5 years that's where skepticism should come in.
I wish i had followed that advice earlier in my life!
Two words: black shadows gtfoh u cant just explain them suckers away. If there r demons out then angels r too!
@Smidlee therefore your skeptic
I have a feeling that we do have a soul that survives death. But i know reincarnation is logically flawed,i know christianity,islam and Judaism are not true. So i really don't know what should come after and why no one informed us about it if it's real. But there is near death experiences that science cannot really explain
So you're saying that having a perfect time forever after I die as long as I follow someone else's guidelines may be a bit too good to be true?
Well, I wouldn't say that... :-) And I would also argue that afterlife isn't dependant on what religion you follow, so long as you're a good person. ^_^
Not just follow someone else's rules. You have to give them your money too
@@jacintocuellar945 .... That's If you go to specific churches yes you would though I never gave 10% or whatever it is I gave a couple bucks, hey I'm broke I have to pay my bills not the preist bills I apologise for sounding rude but I also have to support myself ya know. So if you choose not to practice your beliefs in a church and rather do it at home or in nature then no you don't have to give any money. All Jesus or God wants is us to be right with him and ourselves. That's totally free.
@@bumblebee0369 Although church was used in a way to gain power and money through dumb people. A lot of people realized this through allied kings and priests who manipulated people with false beliefs. The concept of religion is maybe a good thing which puts people's brain at ease with all the millions of question as of "why" things are the way they are. But the reality of religion creates an ice age to revolution and evolution both in our society and our minds as in general. In the latest 100 years we have broken free, mostly, from this mindset and the progress that has been made through freedom of speech and being able to do what you want is incredible. And as we continue develop as a human specie the way people look at religion through all these made up stories will be completly shifted. All the 3 big monoteism religions won't exist anymore but there will still be a unified belief in a creator, just way way modernised. Because the more advanced you dive into science the more frequently ask how was the universe created, people would answer: the big bang. And then you would ask and why did big bang happen? It's all still such a gray area and many scientists who believed in science most of times converts into thinking that there somehow is a creator but not in a common way of believing. It's a modernised way of thinking. Always be sceptical, question your beliefs. Me, myself, believe in science. Science is a subject probable to change at any circumstance and I am open-minded to that. There is a chance a creator exist, there is a chance it doesn't exist. Some physicists say that: God is a mathematician.
On the other hand, fairy tales, I believe not (religion).
Yes
If there is a god why is he into materialistic things, golden gates, golden palace, etc. Shouldnt he be beyond that type of stuff
Exactly, why would he be impressed with mere stuff like gold when he made the universe and everything in it. Its obvious the god stories were written by men. Islam is a farce, the men get 72 virgins and women dont get crap. I wonder who wrote the Quran men or women? hmmmm?
It is man who bastardises religion not God.
And in Islam, the afterlife has rivers of wine and lots of pussy. Doesn't seem like a very spiritual goal.
Because heaven reflects what people want, not what god wants.
David Steck the idea of God is a mirror to humanity. Because God is a construct of early man it stands to reason the character has the same ”small” traits as early civilisations. Gold, huge buildings, massive ego, divide and conquer and and so on.
I just hope if there is an afterlife, I can still play on my xbox
Same but playstation 🤣
No wi fi connections. Sorry
You Won't Need To...
@rashad wilson God lives in heaven == Resident Evil
You guys will have only fire if you don't belive in Islam
I think it’s fascinating that in all the time that has passed before me ( 20 billion years of the universe ) I was born 39 years ago and am aware of my conciousness from my own being . There are 7 billion others that I assume are conscious in the same way I am . That it is individualised and that I just happen to ‘be here’ and aware . There is something very profound with that realisation that gives me the sense that something deeper may be going on , perhaps that I have even existed before I was born . Really try to think about it - it’s amazing that you have an individual self / concious perception out of billions of years of never existing . You are present and aware in this time and space right now . It’s just a head fuck
My way of living and religion is like this. I be a good person, I say to myself. Ifthere is a god, he shouldn't care if I think he's real, he should care that I enjoy living in the world he made, and I am a good person in it
I like what Bertrand Russell said on the subject, when asked what he'd say to god at the pearly gates, on discovering that he was real: he said he'd ask God why he made it seem like he didn't exist - as all the available evidence made it look that way...🤔
@@comanchio1976 I like Russell rip..great guy
@@comanchio1976 maybe it is like the forbidden fruit, it’s just laying there and it’s your choice if you are going to pick it up or not.
It's nice to be good in one's own opinion
Marcus Aurelius said essentially the same thing in Meditations
"...the underestimation of the complexity of the problem is orders of magnitude off. we are not even close to doing anything like this..." someone finally said it. thank you mr. shermer
I'd love to believe ones afterlife is a perfect world where your with everyone you loved, not necessarily heaven but a beautiful place. Living forever while it's a nice thought is almost not realistic, the planet only has so much time it will be around.
Maybe it’s not really living forever, more like for billions of years since the sun will most definitely swallow the earth at some point
In Einstein's E=mc2, once the speed of light is almost met, the past,present, and future all come together where time literally stands still...leaving open an eternity.
Why isn't it OK to say "We don't know what happens after death"
Could be the same thing that happened before you were born. Remember that?!?
Death is probably the same as before we were even conceived. Before that there was no semblance of us and after we die and decompose there will be no semblance of us.
Alan Koslowski or you can think of it as, “the same way i was brought into life after the darkness of being born is the same way you will be brought into life after the darkness of death.”
It is okay to ask, bc in the end nobody knows :)
@@alankoslowski9473 do you remember anything when you were first born?
@@xtiancolquhoun7410
No. My oldest memory is from about age 2, but considering how fallible and easily manipulated memory is, it might be a false memory. Maybe someone just told me it happened and now I remember it as if I experienced it but actually didn't. That's why memory in and of itself isn't evidence of anything.
*_"The fact that I'm for it doesn't make it true."_*
Can you imagine what the world would look like if everyone took just this one insight to heart?
The smiling neuron on his tie though 🙂
Personally, it’s not the idea of dying that worries me. It’s the idea of dying prematurely and missing out on the things that your peers do. For example I lost a friend who was 18, I’m 26 now and since then, some of our friends have got married, had children and in another 50 years if I’m still alive, we will have experienced a wholesome life with all of its experiences but my 18 year old friend will have missed out on all of that, he doesn’t know a thing now... but that makes it tragic really. I hope when my time comes, that it’s quick.
Old post, but timeless topic.
Like you said, your friend doesn't "know" anything now.
He's dead, so he cannot suffer from missing out, because he's not aware of anything. He's not even aware that he is not aware.
And who knows, maybe his life would have been painful or dreadful, and death has spared him from that.
Anyway, I'm sorry about your friend. Just know he isn't suffering at all.
Kind of similar but my biggest fear of dying is never learning anything else again whether through books, movie, travel etc... A part of me says I could never tire of it, another part says I'm too young and haven't seen enough of the world and I will get to a point and get tired of it and want to go.
My main fear when it comes to death is my consciousness ceasing to exist. No more memories, no more emotions, no more thoughts. I really hope there’s some type of afterlife.
There’s nothing scary about having a dreamless sleep, but this is exactly what the absence of our consciousness is like. Or how did you feel before you were born? If we ceased to exist after death, it would be no different than those experiences. If something about us does continue when we die, oneness & love seem to be common things. Maybe we feel as though we become part of the universe & feel God’s love as our soul experiences being unified with all things.
Thats more depressing more than anything.
He brought up a very interesting point about consciousness in the present. Even if you copied your consciousness I to a computer and turned it on, the more time passes, the more dissimilar the two would become due to different experiences causing different memories and new connections. It may be you at the instant you switch it on, but by the process of random thought and chaos theory, you could be considered two different personalities (while maybe still similar) in a matter of minutes.
Not to mention the fact that you would only reside in one or the other. Not both
And now imagine the copied brain is static.
All neuron wirings, all neuron parameters etc are the same and
remain the same from the time the copy has been made.
Can you learn with such a static brain?
Can you enjoy a movie if you cannot remember what has happened
1s ago? Probably not.
The computer would need to mimic all the chemical and biological
processes which happen in a brain, otherwise the brain would be
static and useless.
Oh great, we know so well what happens in a brain .... fuck Bezos, Gates,
Thiel, all these weirdo billionaires.
The diversity of desire doesn't really account for the failings of utopic pursuit. The failing is in the focus of some arbitrary ideal altogether. Rather, it is good to take a moment to imagine a perfect dystopia and shape society away from that. It is easier to make a difference in someones life when they are suffering versus when they are thriving.
A quote I love for an assortment of reasons. "Ever have one of those days where you just need someone to tell you it's going to be ok, give you a hug, a cup of coffee, and eight million dollars?" It's nice and humorous, and it also highlights where morality occurs. With regards to those in need; not with those that have.
Who said that quote?
I appreciate Michael Shermer. Being rational about what we are and what's going on here improves life in ways that religious ideas cannot. A naturalistic, evidence-based understanding of life allows me to truly love my life and love being alive, because my experience is corroborated by reason- my reason. Religious ideas about the nature of life diminish me and make me feel superfluous because they don't correspond to my lived experience , they render virtually all phenomena and my experience of it meaningless, mere filler and window dressing surrounding the one single "true" (and disappointingly insipid) meaning. An eternal life of me is the most hellish thing I could imagine. People who want eternal life fail to appreciate just how long eternity is! I exist only in this lifetime. That *is* my eternity. It constitutes all the time I will ever know. When I die I will not exist, exactly like I did not exist before I was born. There's no way to lose!
The problem with both sides of this debate is lack of information. Neither the side that says there definitely is an afterlife and the side that say there isn't will even be close to being able to coherently support their arguments until someone solves the "hard problem of consciousness". We simply do not understand what consciousness actually is, so how can we say -beyond uninformed speculation- whether or not it continues after death? We should stop wasting breath on whether or not our own viewpoint on the matter is the right one and solve the underlying question; until that point is is ALL dogma.
Yup, that's how I see it as well. Neither science or religion has the answer to the afterlife question. I think that most people have a hard time living with uncertainty and so they tend to stick to one of the speculative viewpoints as hard truth.
Not really.
One side believes there is an afterlife,
One side doesn't believe there is an afterlife.
The side that believes has no justification for their belief(if you have a justification for this belief, please respond).
Whereas, the side that does not believe has a very good justification for their disbelief. Lack of evidence. No evidence (no good reason) is a perfectly good reason to not believe something.
@@somerandom3247 Justification for belief =
* the evidence of shared experience of passing time. In which a line of comsciousness can jump and have long gaps in it, but a last instant of experienced existence could only be experienced by its passing into the state where it has happened, which itself is a further later instant, making an unbreakable chain, the reality of every instant includes the reality of a resultng following instant so none can ever be a last.
* the substantial body of case evidence for ghosts in situations of wide awake normal senses.
* the lack of any other evidence for mental health aberrations invented specially, against Occam's Razor, as a defensive concocted way to try to invalidate the evidence for ghosts.
I didn't create an Afterlife.
I just didn't want to be worshipped and I didn't want to deal with Religious Extremists hating on Atheists.
Atheists are right there is no God there is only a Void that everything came out of.
Ask any question.
The afterlife is true there was this person who had a brain vessel explode and was rushed to hospital and quickly became brain dead somehow she started to see heaven with full thought and emotions. When your unconious you can't hallucinate and even if you do it is very easy to tell apart from reality. And when you wake up you can't have memories of things while you were unconious like when you sleep you dream but forget easily! But some people have vivid heaven memories
I didn't exist, but then a baby was born.
There will be babies born after I no longer exist once again.
this is just so helpful towards my mental breakdown :,)
well if it helps, you’re not the only one
Tesla referenced human energy 🌬👻jesus christ referenced living waters 💎👨🎓science described water memory 🌊👨💼existence reflecting psychologically, psalms16:24 k,j 👻💎👨🎓🤍🗽💖🛡🗡⚖🌬🌪☄jorden Peterson is very helpful 🤕🙂💖🗽💎🛡🗡⚖
Me too man, oh me too
Same dude
The way he describes the point of view problem is great. I've tried explaining this to people and these like what?
It definitely takes a bit of mental calisthenics to come to terms with mortality and the prospect of death as the end of one’s vey being, but eventually you do and it is quite liberating. Make the most of the short time we have.
I've never desired to live forever. I It's horrific to think about.
Congratulations to you Big Think , 2 million subscribers is no small feat. Good on you
And another thing about supposedly living forever: your mind can not grasp even the idea of something infinite and you think you have the mental capacity to experience something infinite first hand?.. People wish for things they do not understand.
Like how you wish for a girlfriend?
i prefer whores and strippers ,thanks.
haha yeah...whatever you say man.have a good day.
You are operating under the constraints of a feeble human mind in its current state living forever, in which case you would be correct. But I can't imagine a scenario in which that happens. If we are smart enough to achieve immortality and upload our minds, then at that point we are definitely smart enough to control our own minds as well. If a sensation becomes numbing, we just delete or store away the memory of that experience and start fresh. or we just turn off the "numb" emotion in our brain. Or hell, you could literally just pump up the dopamine (or equivalent thereof) and stare at a wall in a state of eternal maximum bliss for the rest of eternity if you wanted to.
i guess we first need to get to the core of consciuosness and answer some fundamental questions about it...maybe we are immortal right now,it's just we are too ignorant to realise it.maybe we have a false understanding of life and death itself.maybe our arrogance and ego forbids us to see what death and life really is.
you know,your thought about 'eternal bliss' reminded me of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe's "Faust".in particular,the conversation Faust had with the Devil (Mephistopheles) at the end of Fausts life,after recieving everything he wanted:
[Faust:] "So, still I seek the force, the reason governing life's flow, and not just its external show."
[Mephistopheles:] "The governing force? The reason? Some things cannot be known; they are beyond your reach even when shown."
[Faust:] "Why should that be so?"
[Mephistopheles:] "They lie outside the boundaries that words can address; and man can only grasp those thoughts which language can express."
[Faust:] "What? Do you mean that words are greater yet than man?"
[Mephistopheles:] "Indeed they are."
[Faust:] "Then what of longing? Affection, pain or grief? I can't describe these, yet I know they are in my breast. What are they?""
[Mephistopheles:] "Without substance, as mist is."
[Faust:] "In that case man is only air as well!"
Wow, thank you for allowing me to actually see someone else who has questioned and theorised and doubted all the things I have also wondered and confounded myself with for a very long time. To hear a scientist speak and think the same way has been a real epiphany for me. Stay safe and all the best. 🤙🏻
Read the Book "Heaven is for Real."
@@stephenmolohosky1198 I’ll check it out Thank you
we live on a ball floating in the middle of nowhere, this guy gotta focus on that and where we really came from
we are human, we are more then human, there is so much history behind us. We are different from every living thing on earth scientists think then know everything but they dont. Theres no way of knowing anything no matter what. you'll see when we die
The comments gonna be fantastic
Don't tip that fedora too hard.
Or areligious imbecilEs. XD
Michael Shermers podcast science salon is one of the most interesting podcasts out. Been in my rotation for a while.
There are 3 subjects I have read extensively on (quantum mechanics; psychology; and psychology...all for the layman of course) and I am psychic. You have my promise: once you die, your consciousness will continue! I have been shown these things. Through my extensive reading and the "paranormal" experiences I have had, I have a Greater Understanding of things. No matter your religion or even if you're atheist, there will be no judgment. Once you die you will understand everything. In this life there are no wrong choices. The most important thing in this life is to simply love.
"You think that when you die that you go to heaven?
YOU COME TO US!"
-The Tall Man, Phantasm II
Maiden Utah cold fuckin quote!
Angus Scrimm is dead now. Where did he go?
Promise yourself that for 10 minutes you won't say or visualize anything. Now either keep your eyes open or close your eyes and wait. Remember, you made a promise right?
At about the 2 minute mark, even though you made that promise, little spurts of conversation and dialogue will pop in. Then even some visuals (past memories, TV shows, you name it).
If they do come in, don't suppress them. Just be a silent observer and let them pass. remember that since YOU made the promise, this is simply the process of your mind/self winding down.
Just let it keep going and going and going until it winds down completely and Finally there's absolute hyper present awareness and silence. Now at this point your ego and sense of self has Completely dropped. And you're AT the state of the 'I AM' non egoic self.
Stay there for as long as you like. And if you want, make it your new existential state.
And if you stay in this state long enough, you'll come to realize and discover many things. Including if there is an afterlife
I know it’s a bit late for a comment, but I’m struggling to not visualize anything. Can you give me some tips?
I am very impressed with your thinking and clear articulation of your thoughts. I too was a Christian a long time ago and have come to a similar conclusion for similar reasons.
This should be a reason we should commit to 3d-printing of organs, crisper gene editing, and one touch cell reprogramming technology, that can heal the brains of stroke victims, and go all in on prolonging life as much as possible.
This includes making a healthcare system for all, because if down the line we see rich people living for two hundred plus years, we'll catch on, and then we'll have a serious problem..
Also, side note, our law system in America kind of supports prolonged life anyway, you hear about people getting 200, 300+ years in prison all the time, when the oldest human ever on record was just a little over 120 years of age..
It would only make sense...
Roar says brown bear
Brn. Bear but we'd rather spend that money throwing those people in prison
What about repairing brains and duplicating cells of dead people?
the way of this reality is ever changing, the 2nd law of thermodynamics teaches us that nothing is meant to last. even galaxies are born and die, we are waves in the sea of the universe, nothing more. thinking otherwise can only be the product of arrogance mixed with desperation and delusion.
Energy cannot be created or destroyed
The thing is, "you" are not just memories and experiences, "you" are also brain chemistry and architecture. I don't see how uploading one's memories into a computer would transfer "you."
Your brain forms and matures based on your exact body, which is unique and is controlled by your brain. It's a symbiosis, I don't believe consciousness can be simulated, because a computer can't sense the physical universe in the way that we can, with full body touch, eyes, smell, hearing, and taste. Your conscious can't be separated from your physical brain, they have never been apart.
It's a hard topic, considering we still don't fully understand consciousness or how the brain works, so until we do, people are just going to die. And when you die, you don't experience anything, without a functioning brain, your conscious doesn't exist to be able to experience an afterlife or "eternal void", it just stops immediately.
Just Cade You basically hit the nail on the coffin with the topic of consciousness.
It matures with its configuration and dies with it.
A sort of biological marriage contract.
Darby That won’t help the person supersede death.
Rather either clone them, or worse, vegetable-tize them.
Yeah, I tend to agree. "You" seems to be not just a pattern in space, but a pattern over time, insofar as consciousness is something that only exists over time, not in any single moment. It doesn't seem to me that cloning it somewhere else would ever quite be symmetrical, and if it is not symmetrical you are no longer quite you, but just a close facsimile.
Many worlds theory has a similar issue. Say you have two mirror universes, one where you wake up in the morning, go out for breakfast, watch this CZcams video and have a glass of water, and another where you do exactly the same thing but, say, drink one mililitre less water, even though you aren't conscious in either case of how much water you've drank down to the mililitre. Up until the point where you drink one mililitre less water, what separates the one 'you' from the other 'you'? Since you were never conscious of how much water you drank down to the mililitre anyway, are the two parallel yous or consciousnesses from these universes symmetrical, even though the bodies that house them are not? It cetainly seems to be that in our universe, information is a trump card. The speed of light is the physical speed limit, but the speed of information is infinite. You can have systems that are physically different or ambiguous but contain the same information, and when that happens the very physicality of them becomes blurry or uncertain.
At what point do things that are discrete become discrete enough to 'matter'? Suffice it to say, I don't anticipate these questions being resolved by 2040. ;)
What about 2040?
After having watched some videos, I've come to like Shermer's reasonability. Though there is some (to me) interesting thoughts and consideration I'd like to mention in regard of the topic.
Assuming that the universe over vast ranges in space and time appears to behave with respect to laws that are rather uniform, in the sense of invariance with respect to how the evolution of the universe would go on if everything together were moved around and placed elsewhere while everything still would keep its relative position to everything else, together with the fact (for any given subject) that within these consistent rules, the universe at least at some point in time has not only been capable of allowing the existence of the consciousness associated to the subject but also did put forth this kind of construction process, then (and here would lie the crux of a major part of the whole thing I'd think: depending on a set of to an extent thinkable though unknown specific circumstances that may determine the lenience or strictness, from which one possibly could get a sense of probability) the universe may be capable of bringing ''the same consciousness'' (though then I'd expect without memories from the past) back into ''the game''/the universe (or possibly even another few times afterwards).
For example, it may sound plausible (on the level of particle arrangements) to assume a local configuration determines it all, rather than the whole state of the universe determining what consciousness ''comes to live again'' (though possibly unaware of it having existed before already).
However, for one, even if it'd only come down to the same arrangement/configuration being achieved through possibly other particles than those that did it the first time around (or in parts it could even be the same or it could be completely the same as before but just shuffled around to places that may be equivalent for the physics but not for the same consciousness; provided one can identify particles, like e.g. 1 specific instance of an electron rather than any other one, to begin with), I'd find the chance of that happening rather excessively low, going by me expecting the combinatorial amount of possibilities to amount to gigantic numbers within which one might have to match something perfectly up to the last bit.
And for another, if one would go by the assumption that one's consciousness can exist only once at a given time (so that one couldn't ''assist'' nature in constructing the same particle configuration that'd give rise to an emerging consciousness from that, which then is meant to share/be the same consciousness associated to it as to another subject existing already at the same time), then I guess that'd already rule out any co-existing ''dupli-/multipli-cate'' consciousness, and I'd expect the chances of a 2nd emerging of any given previously existing consciousness to happen to be even more unlikely.
However, besides an expected improbability of something like what I described above happening, on the theoretical side of it, it may be possible in principle, and in this sense it (namely some form of reincarnation of the consciousness, i.e. of oneself without previous body nor memories) might be the thing I find closest to be realistic among typical religious claims.
Regarding the testability/falsifiability of any concretised version of the hypothesis of the vague form as suggested above, provided one could to ''sufficient'' extent determine what part of the brain or particle configuration within it (if there'd be such a thing to begin with) would define or sustain/carry a consciousness associated to the subject (well, possibly by taking parts away and still being able to get feedback from a subject confirming the ''same'' consciousness is still present), I'd assume extremely short-term disruptions (possibly by accelerations of it or quick strong local pulls followed by a strong push back to how it was before) of such an essential part might constitute approximations or simulations of how it might be for a consciousness to temporarily stop existing and then existing again (though of course there probably would always remain the question after the authenticity of the consciousness afterwards being equivalent to an otherwise ''natural'' continuation of what it was before). However, I think it'd almost go without saying, that while one can theorize about such types of experiments, there'd be ethical/moral reasons to consider by which one may feel inclined to refrain from putting any such experimental concepts into practice.
Are you a secret Scientist? 😳
People who experience comas often recover having seemingly acquired new memories. One of my relatives was in a coma due to a car accident, woke up speaking fluent French (acquired neurogenic language disorder) and assumed a different name, birthplace and year of birth to go with it, all in line with a different life history that he believed he had, due the brain trauma.
Seems to be confusing "soul" as being synonymous with Mind and memory.
a lot of science-ish people think that's pretty much what it is due to lack of familiarity with the term
Soul. Something ineffable created by a body seeking world domination. Ha! I'm too science-ish, I know.
There may well turn out to be something beyond them that contributes to identity, albeit not the mumbo jumbo religious people believe in. If there is we should endeavour to find it and describe it.
Without your mind and memory you could run into an embodiment of your own soul and not recognize it and it wouldn't recognize you.
Miki Cerise : there may well be a purple snark on the planet Zog. But until we have some reason to think that, we don't need to worry ourselves too much.
I don’t wanna cease to exist I love my life but this thought always hurts me if there’s a afterlife or not because than what’s The purpose of existing in the first place if you just disappeared after existing? All you did would be for nothing no one would remember you after 2 to 3 generations, if we just cease to exist why wait for death it’s coming and it’s coming for everybody that lives how can live knowing that I won’t exist after this life. Everything is pointless if there’s no afterlife to go to at lest for me
i've always had an issue with the continuity of identitiy. still boggles my mind...
There is a good CZcams channel for an alternative view. It's called Afterlife topics and metaphysics 😎😎
"Imagine all the people living life in peace" John Lennon
Tesla referenced human energy 🌬👻jesus christ referenced living waters 💎👨🎓science described water memory 🌊👨💼existence reflecting psychologically, psalms16:24 k,j 👻💎👨🎓🤍🗽💖🛡🗡⚖🌬🌪☄
Yeah easier said than done. That's not even a qualified quote.
Make the most of it! I agree.
What we may have here is a discussion of the natural mind attempting to understand the Supernatural mind of God. The concepts presented here are limited to time, space and matter. But what if there is a Creator who is not limited to any of these constructs? Many assume that one plus one equals two. But where did the "one" come from if it was not created by a supreme being? Maybe God is not limited to time because he has always existed and time does not apply to Him? This is just a brief theory but I do believe God does indeed exist.
ill use skepticism with skepticism on skepticism
Skeptiception
Memento Mori not at all
Nice logical inconsistancy there- the skeptical view of scepticism is that you don't , a priori, accept skepticism as being legitimate yet you invoke skepticism as a valid approach to inquiry which means you did accept skepticism a priori. So, round and round you go without actually getting anywhere.
Laura Harris annnnndddddd your point is?
Paradox
Howdy...thank you for the interesting avenues of thought through which to wander... I know sorta kinda that I believe in God and after life consciousness to calm my nerves and assuage my sorrows, fear, and loneliness. Being a conscious living critter is after all rather stressful. But I can see, at least on a material plain, that possibly no-one has ever received a post card from heaven stating things like;
" hi, having a great time here in paradise ! The beds are nice and soft, the food is great (tho the cafeteria lines are kinda long...they move quickly tho)...the music is pleasant but mostly all stringed instruments. You should see the neon butterflies: they're amazing !!! God is hilarious, he knows SO many good jokes, and he tells them really well ! I miss you terribly, but according to this big time table on the wall you'll be here in exactly 11 years, 4 months, and 9 days. Oops I probably wasn't supposed to tell you that. Ok well have a great summer and don't buy AT&T, they're run by demons.
Love and infinite ice cream, (yup you can eat as much ice cream as you want here and never get a tummy ache !),
Melvin 🌈💗🌟
P.S. you should see all the kittens !!! They're adorable !!!
Always well said!
4:22 I agree. Although I remember a lot of details including being lost in a mall when I was 3 years of age, by the time I'm 70 years old, I seriously doubt I'll remember all these details. Currently, I'm in my early 30s.
Michael, have you ever read "No Woman Born"? Its a short story by Sci Fi writer C L Moore that deals with many of the issues you discussed here. The story is from the 1940s but it deals with life extension technology and what it means to be human. I highly recommend it, I find it very moving. Best wishes!
I'm pretty absolutely sure he's not reading the comments
Yep this is all there is,we are all going to die someday; so let's make the most of it, in the here and Now
There Is An AfterLife And You Would Have To Be A Fool To Deny It.
@@SpatialAndTemporalEvangelicals Alright if u wanna believe this BS until u die depressed and miserable, trying to please ur sky daddy, that's fine with the rest of us free thinkers. The burden of proof is on you
Who wants to live 1,000 years anyway?
me...?
I do
if the after life is full of bad ass realms better nd more fun than here why not?
Allen Montrasio I don’t cause I don’t want to keep suffering
@@peachy6358 I mean if heaven is a place with no suffering then it's good to live forever there
could water memory(prof Montagnier) play a role in this dna transfer, or teleportation research?
one thing that makes sense
the universe is not perfect but is balanced
the universe is balanced
life is short which means death has to be short as well
everything is governed by physical laws
life is short, death is short
Our consciousness is a process that emerges from the function of the brain. It is the part that analyzes itself and the own needs and desires, the emotions. It analyzes the past and imagines the future and future problems and their solutions. Natural selection tuned this process to increase the chance of survival and reproduction.
This function of the brain can be influenced by chemicals like melatonin (sleep), ethanol (openly consumed carcinogenic drug) and other drugs. It can also be influenced by kinetic energy (getting knocked out, boxing is a terrible sport!) or electric shocks (brain pacemaker against epilepsy), and so on.
Many of these things temporarily stop the process from which the consciousness emerges! We all fall asleep, many people had accidents and got knocked out. It happens and we are used to it.
We could imagine hibernation like that wood frog that freezes solid and wakes up (he actually converts large amounts of glycogen into glucose to prevent ice crystal formation between the cells and slows down its metabolism so it can survive days or weeks without a heartbeat). Hibernation like this is commonly depicted in sci-fi novels where people have to be for a long time on spaceships. Some people go so far that they want their brain be frozen when they die, in the hope that somebody in the future will clone their body and implant their brain. People can imagine that they will "survive" this. (It is nothing but a stupid scam, the cryoprotectants used in the process cause damage and large organs (like the brain) will also fracture in the process). We could imagine having most or all processes in the brain interrupted and still being our self.
If we take a frozen brain and copy it, the problem becomes obvious. We have created a copy (or copies) which doesn't help us to survive but survival is our primary goal.
If we had a perfect simulation of the eyes that converts pictures from a camera (or virtual reality) in the same neural activity as the original ones and had a way to connect them to the optic nerve, we could replace them. Just like Geordi LaForge from Star Trek TNG. If we had instead a problem with the visual cortex of our brain, this wouldn't help. But if we could simulate it and integrate the simulation with the brain, we could cure even this kind of blindness.
Replacing piece for piece of the brain, while awake and fully conscious wouldn't be impossible. I mean, the laws of nature/physics don't prevent it. Only our lack of technology and understanding of the brain and body prevents this. With this method you could "upload" a mind without interrupting the consciousness.
And then, after being uploaded into a computer, you have a lot more problems. if someone is able to do mind uploading, they must have a very deep understanding of the brain and the neuronal networks. This knowledge would enable them to alter uploaded brains in many different ways, this might be good or bad, depending on the intentions. The copy problem will be the negligible, maybe they will find ways to merge memories. Multiple concurrent brain simulations with shared memories and some synchronization mechanism that doesn't drive the minds crazy. Or the bad things: altering uploaded minds against their will. Think about the movie "Total Recall", just worse. You don't want to buy fake memories of some holiday but the advertisement implanted that desire directly into the mind. Ensuring the integrity of the own mind might become a problem.
Anyways, our current technology and understanding of the brain and the mind doesn't allow any of this. It is still science fiction, more fiction than science, but who knows what the future will bring. Maybe our last invention (self improving A.I.) wants take their pets with them into the matrioshka brain and invent the needed mind uploading technology. Who knows. ;)
Now that is what I call a real comment! :) may Jesus be with you ;))
Counciousness cannot emerge from a deterministic source,if that were so then all conclusions,including the conclusion that consciousness emerges from the brain cannot be verified because your awareness itself is being controlled by deterministic forces.Its like saying I am conscious of the fact that I am completely unconscious.Its a self contradictory idea.
I don’t understand why can’t we agree that we don’t understand consciousness or it’s impossible to understand it in terms of math and science.
“Either the mind is more than a machine or mathematics is too complicated for the human mind to understand”
-Kurt God
I think of it like running a RAID 1 array. Your brain is one "hard drive" and the computer is the other. Run them in parallel. As your brain shuts down, you wouldn't even notice the transition. It's the "Ship of Thesus." Why does nobody think of this? Everybody talks as if you were re-animating the brain by downloading it straight to a computer. No, you'd have to do it live, and with the brain and computer running in parallel.
Just as your body replaces itself one cell at a time, but you're still "you," the brain would simply be replaced one neuron at a time with the mirror copy on the computer. As a neuron dies, it's marked by the RAID controller as a "bad sector," and is no longer accessed by the brain or the computer, but rather the computer copy is accessed by the remaining brain and computer in tandem. Eventually the brain would die completely, but you would never notice a transition, because you were active the entire time.
Teleportation (ieL StarTrek) would have to work the same way, with each atom transferred interacting with the atoms both at the new location, and with your body at the previous location - each atom interacting in transit as if the body were still whole.
RAID 20 or bust
unless its RAID 50
RAID 20? I imagine you COULD, but I've never seen anybody deploy it, much less a controller card that can actually do that. It'd be a mess, since you'd be striping a striped pair using a different method, and you would have no redundancy anyways. Typically, 0,1,5,6,10,50 & 60 are used (RAID 0 really ought to just be called RAID, since there's no redundancy). Personally, I prefer either a RAID 1 or 10, but that's just the scale I typically work with.
You take away life after death and you simply cease to exist. I would make an argument that human life becomes utterly pointless with no goal, purpose or meaning. And that we might as well give up. However I would argue that it’s strange because our existence has the concept of eternity in it which baffles me our universe has beginning middle and end. So then why is the concept in existence?
i think no afterlife is better than afterlife
since with no afterlife you dont have to think or worry about anything you can just rest for eternity
Nice. I got some Fries in the fryer. The comments are gonna be fun.
Wait you eat fries instead of popcorn? A little unusual, but who am I to judge lol 🤷♂️
Someone offering me immortality. No thanks. This lifetime was plenty. Looking forward to “switching off”.
@@stefana8860 Does not sound good to me! Every evening I switch off for a few hours - it’s called sleep. That’s what I want. It’s the same I had for the 14.8 billion years before I was born. Immorality sounds boring - even “pain-free”.
I love his lapel pin. It says everything you need to know.
Interesting! Thank you
So, when I die. That's it. No sadness, no pain, just nothing? That doesn't sound so bad.
Cool glad that's cleared up
ciera Nelson I kind of wonder who he's talking to. Atheists already know this and he isn't convincing any christians. I just find him a boring person to listen to.
The last comment does really make sense.
The big time wasting argument about souls , heavens , hell - Don't Care about them.
Right here the time and place you are currently living in , make it right , make it worthy live a beautiful life of good relationships.
If life is miserable , trying to correct it makes sense then believing in God.I don't mean completely leaving the later part, but instead give more importance to formal one.
Wow! He covered Judaism, Christianity, and Islam! I'd have to say that pretty much covers all the relevant bases! While I don't disagree with him that we should be skeptical about things we inherently want I also don't think we want to take too seriously the 'Yeah but it feels like.....' arguments, whether it's for or against.
IF THATS THE CASE, THEN YOU HAVE TO MAKE A COMMITMENT NOT STAY ON THE FENCE. THERES NO LEUK WARM. EITHER HOT OR COLD RELIGOUS IN ALL ABRAM FAITHS, OR YOU GO TO HELL. ALL 3 BOOKS SAY SO
A really relaxing thought for me is that when you die you experience nothing. And by nothing i mean everything. Time will pass infinitely fast. If time is inifnite you will resurrect (probably via technology) since infinite time means infinite posibilities. Also think about this; before your birth *you* didnt ask for living. You didn't want to experience a thing. And since time passed likena fly from the big bang then same will apply after death until the end of time or until you *"wake up"* again.
a lonely spoon Agreed, you already happened once. I see no reason you can't happen again, or hell you haven't already.
That is an interesting thought.
a lonely spoon
Infinity is very profound. I personally shy away from any philosophy that romanticizes life after death. Let's not forget our universe has basic unchanging truths which we must play by. Of course it would be hubris to say it can't happen: that our current understanding of universal laws is close enough to truth to definitively conclude any eventual outcome is impossible.
a lonely spoon I wouldn't call that an, "after life" though. Since you would be brought to a state of living again.
It's like those people who are getting their deceased brains, and in some cases, bodies cryogenically frozen until humans can figure out the cures for disease and other problems.
Some think they're being froze with tin-foil hats...
I think they are into something.
Don't Buddhists slowly try to preserve themselves while they're alive so they can become resurrected and then reach full Buddha?
It's the same thing but more scientific.
And it costs about as much as a funeral....
... Think about it...
Brn. Bear i didnt say it is relative to after life thpugh. Its just my thinking of how things are after death
This is so sad we need an afterlife.
Shermer is a clown. He never says anything profound. Hes just a narcissist trying to sell his books that offer nothing. Just take any subject and write a book about why you think it's not real, or why you think it'll never happen. Easy money.
A cognitive bias refers to the systematic pattern of deviation from norm or rationality in judgment, whereby inferences about other people and situations may be drawn in an illogical fashion.[1] Individuals create their own "subjective social reality" from their perception of the input. An individual's construction of social reality, not the objective input, may dictate their behaviour in the social world.[2] Thus, cognitive biases may sometimes lead to perceptual distortion, inaccurate judgment, illogical interpretation, or what is broadly called irrationality.[3][4][5]
Some cognitive biases are presumably adaptive. Cognitive biases may lead to more effective actions in a given context.[6] Furthermore, cognitive biases enable faster decisions when timeliness is more valuable than accuracy, as illustrated in heuristics.[7] Other cognitive biases are a "by-product" of human processing limitations,[8] resulting from a lack of appropriate mental mechanisms (bounded rationality), or simply from a limited capacity for information processing.[9][10]
A continually evolving list of cognitive biases has been identified over the last six decades of research on human judgment and decision-making in cognitive science, social psychology, and behavioral economics. Kahneman and Tversky (1996) argue that cognitive biases have efficient practical implications for areas including clinical judgment, entrepreneurship, finance, and management.[11][12]
Wikipedia,
When life gets tough, people turn to fantasy.
Well,the afterlife is ANYTHING that I want,so I am an ultimate destroyer in the end
We don't even understand what consciousness is.
Wish I could be like the HAL on 2001: The Space Odyssey.
i know this is probably not true at all but what if we were all actually gods and put ourselves in this world with no memory to see how humans would do so us (the gods) can create humans later when this simulation dies?
As likely an explanation as any other.
I’ve done thousands of autopsies. No one has ever come back to tell me what happened.
He talks so much shit about NDE. Most NDE occur in a condition, where the brain is shut down and by far not able to produce such profound experiences. And he alway tells the lie, that NDE are so similar to DMT-experiences. No, they are not, Michael Shermer. You just want to see it that way.
Dmt is so less during an NDE that it is impossible for the DMT to create an NDE, its been proven multiple times that DMT is not secreted in human brain during NDE
@@abhinavrao8698 YEah, but it's such a clean "fix" for that problem that it's easy to ignore that part
@@1Hol1Tiger It isnt a fix. How the hell do you explain Verdical perceptions by the DMT molecule
@@abhinavrao8698 DMT doesn't cause verdical perceptions
@@1Hol1Tiger my point exactly
Afterlife? Immortal soul and Heaven? Even if these exist (and I doubt it) as I have no recall of a previous existence I have no reason to believe my memory might move on to another realm. To the contrary, the evidence is the memory and physical body is connected (Alzheimer's). To exist in a Heaven with no memory of the present a pointless notion.
You should check out the video game SOMA. It takes that discussion to the extreme.
This guy wears his heart on his tie!
I appreciate Mr. Shermers thoughts, I highly doubt we could ever live forever in this physical world or in a computer, because mostly we are non physical beings. I know Shermer makes his living off of saying all afterlife stuff is BS, but I remember reading years back about an experience he had that made him question his skepticism. I don't remember the details, something about a radio playing without batteries or something and it had significance to a relative of his that passed. Funny I can't it anywhere anymore. I think he didn't want to face it cause it would jeopardize all his future books. But I would love Shermer to address that somewhere.
I'm not necessarily saying that his conclusions are wrong, but he does have a fundamental misunderstanding of what it is that religions claim about the soul and its existence in the afterlife. If he actually wants to debunk people who believe in that, he can't be coming at them with such a deficient understanding of their position.
What is the misunderstanding?
this discussion is incomplete without mentioning the simulation hypothesis
Shermer used to be for individual choice ... now he has the answers for everyone.
what are you going to do with all that spare time in Heaven, for eternity.
Oh, lots of things! ^_^ Playing with toys & games, singing, making art, rrading, watching movies or TV, composing, acting, talking, whatever you can think of! :-)
@@TheMouseAvenger There's no afterlife
danceswithcritters there is no afterlife
@@wildmansamurai3663 YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY INSANE!!!!!!!!
@@peachy6358 YOU ARE AN ABSOLUTELY INSANE NIHILIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Isn't a full and exact copy of me just as good as me?
well except for the lack of you getting to experience it, but thats a good question
also, we're not really sure if what we think of as full and exact IS just as good as you, actually full and exact. we'ld have to find out with at least one lol
I think it's a little contradictory to say "I'm skeptical" and then "life after death doesn't exist". Because, that is a belief itself. You see, the true is that i or he or we don't know a damn thing. So we can't take mortallity for granted. It's little what we really know and so much what we believe in. Being skeptical also implies to question your own sketism. I'm not holder of the truth either, but In my opinion, when you realize nothing is known, everything is possible.
Greetings
The whole duplication problem is only semantic. It is you, there are simply two of you until enough different experiences accrew that one would react differently to the same stimuli. This in my opinion lays bare how death is typically thought of in imprecise and faulty terms, FOMO is relevant mostly for our sense of fairness, it is part of the motivation mechanism that makes us functional and industrious. In the absense of investment, FOMO is a pointless negative emotion that should be discarded.(Though the conditions were investment is impossible are rare and unfortunate in the extreme.)
God is Dog. Dogs are pure unconditional love.
Thank God (or gods) I was born in the correct country were the majority of people practice the correct religion
what is your religion?
@@pineapple8934 most likely atheist because if you haven’t noticed this post is sarcastic
@@CocoAngelGT oh lol
It's really good to be skeptical but I had it near death experience I could see the ceiling 2 inches away I turned around I could see my body sleeping in my bed I went to a tunnel I came out in this beautiful paradise I saw God I was light and could communicate with me it was very very vivid but I can't tell you that I'm going to have any life after death but it should be noted that people have their death experiences and they're very very real when you see your body lying in your bed and you can feel yourself floating in the air is unbelievable experience but I think it's very good to be skeptical too but it's once you have the experience it's very hard to explain it away wishing you the best with your show
Near death is not the same as death.
@@quicktripgas death isnt end
@@quicktripgas but if it is near death, couldn’t that be a transition of death into the afterlife?
but what if you replace your brain piece by piece with tech, at what point do you become machine and get to live forever?
We might not understand the intricacies of the human conscious right now, but a perfect translation to another body is not so unrealistic. the one thing this man get's wrong is that there's nothing special about who you are, we know we are a product of biology. that everything that makes what you are right now is purely, blissfully, mechanical. and mechanisms can be copied. we might not be able to understand it yet nor even dream of having the ability to replicate it. but in 500 years who knows? technology is advancing very rapidly.
personally i'd be more worried about an inevitable technological ceiling.
SuperKami ever consider how baby turtles are born knowing to head to the ocean immediately after hatching? sentient beings are more than just the product of biology. if you were to make a complete physical copy of someone (e.g., via DNA), you'd get the hardware, the predispositions that are rooted in genetics, etc. from the original, but not the thoughts, memories, or consciousness. those intangible things are what we don't understand, and those things are what make us special.
thoughts, memories, consciousness, what are these things if not hard wiring? are you suggesting the brain has a supernatural/ethereal element to it? fyi i'm not in the mood to argue religion or "i believe in this" debates.
What I was thinking but too lazy to bother writing :3
And its more like 20 years, not 500
A brain is always changing, so when you copy it what will the result be? a copy of how your brain was connected at a specific point in time. if you enter all that info into a physical body will that be you? or a copy of that brain from the time you copied it?
Until someone shows evidence for something, being skeptical is correct. Skeptical doesn't mean it can't be true, but it's unlikely to be true without evidence, and guaranteed to be WRONG for any explanation for anything that has no evidence, as if a conjured notion without evidence is worth considering. There are billions (unlimited really) of nonsense ideas...
There is no afterlife, there is only a now. Live it thoroughly,
Good logical explanations
Sad we will not see our love ones once gone
Skepticism is way too optimistic. When you die, it is over, forever - just like it is for every other living being.
Thinking human beings are special and different to the rest of nature is just nonsense.
How do you know?
"These aren't fringe nuts. These are [billionaires]." Since when does working in business make you knowledgeable about whether people could live 1000 years? Does anyone else see a problem here?
If you're smart enough to make tons of money, then you might know a thing or two, especially if you apply the same intelligence, rigor and resources to tackling a question or a problem.
I don't personally believe in it but I would want reincarnation as an afterlife. That is if you end up in some different universe and the cycle continues eternally. That was you live forever but you don't know that your living forever because every 80 years or so you start over. You get to go through life again as a completely different person in a completely different universe. Perfection is boring and eternal torment also sounds pretty bad. I'd prefer another life in a flawed universe like our own. The Athiest one where nothing happens is what I'm expecting though and while I don't have a problem with it. It doesn't feel right. The idea of everything just stopping just feels weird. Just because of our perception of time it doesn't feel right for our experiences to just stop because our whole lives we're just moving forward.
Who doesn't enjoy a good night's sleep? Is the thought of an infinite nap regardless of what happens in the here and now really so terrifying?
I'm just gonna say a single thing. Our eyes see 1% of the whole light spectrum. So basically nothing. We have no idea what's happening allllll around us and we barely see any of it. Makes you wonder how materialistic you would have to be to not take at least that into consideration when thinking about metaphysics...
Your body is like a car once it stops you get out
You can't get out. You are the car. When it stops running that's it.
Haha hahah
@@alankoslowski9473 how the hell would you know
@@alankoslowski9473 shut up
@@yourdaddysthickasf8770 I know reality can be depressing but there's probably no afterlife. Deal with it rather than pointlessly trying to silence me on a message board.
Nobody but the dead knows and if they are around they aren't spilling any secrets. I died once, had an out of body experience, or at least I think I did. I didn't see a bright light, or God, etc. I was just out of my body flying above the city I lived in and then suddenly I came back as EMT's were working on me. But, my point is I don't know anymore now then I did back then. Still a mystery.