Software Developers "AREN'T Data Driven"?!
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Dave & Allen Holub disagree on whether software development organisations are in fact data-driven. How should teams gather feedback and can you measure the performance of software by using numerical metrics?
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Every manager says they are data-driven until they can't find data to back up their decisions. Then it's "I have experience, I'm convinced this is the best approach, if you're not happy you guys should just disagree and commit to do as I say".
not "every" manager
Sounds like you need to find a generative environment.
@@brucedavis9191 Most of environments are like this.
@@d3stinYwOw not saying you’re wrong, just saying we all should be looking for better situations. Or making them.
I have yet to see people in the business world understanding the numbers. As soon as they get a number, they come to some sort of conclusion that the numbers cannot justify at all. You have to know what the numbers mean first, and that just doesn't happen. Funny thing is, this also happens in the accounting world where there are very well defined meaning behind the numbers.
They want numbers because they don't understand the business. If they don't understand the business how will they understand how the numbers apply to their business?
Two of my favorite people in software in a video again. Happy Sunday before going to work Monday back to the suck
i mean i like using numbers, but most of the time people just make stuff up with deplorable sample set, to hava actual insight, you need time, and a good data.... I am that guy tah sees a graph and ask humm guys where are the error bars? For most stuff is not resonable to do an statiscal rigorous analsys, so you might as well not bother
This is one area I believe Allen is totally wrong. Measurement is extremely important and valuable. The issue is that most people don't know how to correctly measure and interpret the measurement. And way too often, measurement becomes corrupted to confirm people's opinion and biases. But that is not problem of the tool. But how people use the tool.
But disregarding measurements completely is throwing the baby with the bathwater.
I would higly recommend reading "How to Measure Anything" I remember recommending it to Allen on Twitter some time ago, but haven't received any reply.
Or 'But that is not problem of the tool. But how people use the tool.' means the wrong tool is being used.
If teams follow agile principles and are allowed to self organise might a one size fits all approach be wrong? If the work is novel, changes between small and large features then the tool must account for this. I am in favour using the right tool for the job and not being told to use tool X or Y because of policy or worse that other teams use it
Your first sentence says Allen is wrong... And then the rest of your comment goes on to show how numbers are _in effect_ meaningless, because they're never interepreted correctly -- thereby proving that Allen is, after all, correct.
Around 1:30 - 1:40, Allen mentions _"sustainable pace"..._ Well, that's it for faux-gile Scrum, then: Running sprint after sprint after sprint after... is the very opposite of sustainable pace!
The idea that we cannot measure means that things are not scientific.
Measure what is measurable, make measurable what is not so!
@@thebigsteiny Quality, complexity, time, feature use, just a few things you can measure.
Mixing "Data Driven" and "Number Driven" there quite nicely, but otherwise there is a good point
There is a nuance to everything, and the last comment you made about letting smart people do the work is so true, not everyone is cut out for this kind of work.
IMHO most base their decisions on opinion not data, which is unfortunate. Data > opinion.
In this clip you took surprisingly long to realize that there's a difference in quantitative and qualitative data.
You know, i've wondered alot about why managers and companies never implemented TDD or BDD or any new software development approach seriously, but they have embraced microservices wholeheartedly. I understand it now. They like microservices because they can corrupt it and transform the whole software development process more bureaucratic and managerial driven. They have more control over the software development process and they have more freedom to lord over developers.
Managers don't care about efficiency or good software. It doesn't matter if its cheaper, better faster... To this day, 99% of companies still develop horrible code, composed of hunders of if-else statements and they don't even use object orientation. Even Agile was corrupted. They'll corrupt any concept we propose and use it to gain more power and to lord over developers.
They love numbers because they are easily tweaked to say what they want them to say.
big number good small number bad. give me numbers!
Allen: "...once you get to fifty that's probably all you need"
Me, a game developer: *cries in a corner*
Smart people use science and measurement to compare things, otherwise everything becomes subjective and political.
3 Continuous Delivery logos in one frame. Did you run your video edits through TDD, or did you just wing it like some kind of iMovie producer?