Why Are Battleships Referred to as BB?
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- čas přidán 31. 01. 2024
- This episode focuses on some weird acronyms.
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The views and opinions expressed in this video are those of the content creator only and may not reflect the views and opinions of the Battleship New Jersey Museum & Memorial, the Home Port Alliance for the USS New Jersey, Inc., its staff, crew, or others. The research presented herein represents the most up-to-date scholarship available to us at the time of filming, but our understanding of the past is constantly evolving. This video is made for entertainment purposes only.
Because Battleships are Battle Boats
I agree.
Sounds good!
Big Battleship
That's always been my brain's take
Dang beat me to it.
Fun fact: When nuclear power was introduced, the CNO decided that the N should be in parenthesis (e.g., SS(N)-571 USS NAUTILUS, CV(N)-65 USS ENTERPRISE). Admiral Rickover hated this and argued against it because, 1. It diminished the importance of nuclear power and, 2. parentheses are stupid and harder to type. But the CNO pulled rank. In typical Rickover fashion, he ignored the CNO and used SSN or CVN in all official correspondence, manuals and drawings from his office, while the Pentagon used (N). But typists and Yeomen throughout the fleet, faced with two different official acronyms, chose the simpler one. Thus, the (N) was supplanted by N after several years. The Navy, under a different CNO, eventually made N official.
interesting about the (N) nomenclature for Nuclear. I remember watching BATTLE360 as a child and the change from CV-6 to CVN-6 for night OPs always stuck out to me
Rickover should have a CGN/CVN/SSN/SSBN named after him !!!
@@kbarrett63He does. It's SSN-795, one of the new Virginia class boats. There is also SSN-709, a Los Angeles class submarine also bearing the Rickover name.
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
@@theaureliasys6362 Please don't bring Politics into the conversation :-) !
(Pick your own Politician/Party/Country, there are PLENTY available!).
A history of New Jersey 1 seems a necessity now.
Probably hard to find, but I think there is a video on the channel.
I would like to see a video talking about BB16, could probably talk about SSN796 the current USS NJ
Hull numbers started off as B- for Battleships, C- for Cruisers and D- for Destroyers.
With the introduction of seaplane tenders, aircraft carriers, and "Heavy" and "Light" cruisers (due to the Washington Naval Treaty), the 2-letter hull-type codes were used to desginate hull type
BB for Battleship
CA for heavy cruiser
CL for light cruisers
CV for aircraft carriers (Cruiser hull used for aViation) (why V and not A? ALL navy aircraft squadrons in the have a V in the unit designator. VF for fighters (navy), VMF for fighters (Marines), VB for navy bombers, VMB for marine corps bombers, VT for torpedo bombers)
DD for Destroyers
The reason for doubling even B and D was so that ALL ship-numbers would have a 2-letter code (this standardization reduces errors in radio transmissions, especially during the morse-code era)
By WW2, some three letter codes were added
CVL (light aircraft carrier)
CAA (anti-aircraft cruiser... typically a heavy cruiser (CA hull) with no 8" or 10" gun turrets, so as to have as much allowable displacement devoted to anti-aircraft guns and anti-aircraft ammuntion. These ships typically served as close escorts in carrier groups, to provide much-needed anti-aircraft augmentation for the vulnerable CVs)
CV could possibly stand for Cruiser Voler, or "Flight Cruiser". A whole slew of aviation words are from French, including... aviation.
-edit: Also, (at least in US and British service), all dedicated AA gun cruisers (that I am aware of) were specialty light cruisers, more akin to super-large destroyers (see Atlanta-Oakland classes and Dido-Bellona classes) than "true" light cruisers, or heavy cruisers (let alone armored cruisers? 10" guns?). In US service, their hull type designation was initially CL, then was changed to CLAA in 1949, but was never CAA.
CB for Alaska class large cruisers.
CC for Lexington-class battlecruiser.
Following adoption of the Washington Naval Treaty, construction on all the ships was stopped in February 1922. Two of the battlecruiser hulls were reordered as the Lexington-class aircraft carriers Lexington (CV-2) and Saratoga (CV-3) under the terms of the Treaty, while the other four ships were formally cancelled and scrapped in place. Due to the planned re-use of the name, USS Constitution was renamed Old Constitution from 1 December 1917 until the name was returned on 24 July 1925.
@@Celebmacil
V meant heavier-than-air aircraft.
Maybe from heaVier?
Maybe "V" for "vertical" as in projecting vehicular force vertically?
Don't forget combustible venerable expendable CVE escort carriers.
@@GrantWaller.-hf6jn
The "E" is for escort.
Or is the "E" for "explosive?"
Back in '85 when I reported onboard the Jersey, one of the first thing I asked was what the BB stood for? Unsurprisingly, I never got a straight answer. If I remember correctly, the most popular answer was "Battle Boat" and it was usually delivered with a smirk. The explaination I eventually ended up with was something that I thought I read in a technical publication that was stored in my work center. It was on the same shelf as the SSORM and other such manuals and for the life of me, I can't remember the name of it. But the explaination was given as "Battle and Bombardment". It explained that the "Battle" was for the ship's role as a surface to surface combatant, (as in ship to ship fighting), and "Bombardment" was for the ship's role as an NGFS, (shore bombardment), vessel.
To this day I could have sworn all of this to be true, but with me being 60 now and contending with a 40 year old memory, I'll quickly defer to Ryan's expertise and accept his explaination. Contrary to the Navy's official designation of "Battleship", I still like my explaination better. 😁
I choose to believe it means Battle Boat and nothing Ryan says can convince me otherwise.
@@Andystuff800I think of Battle Bhip
@@robertoroberto9798 heh. :)
“I don’t speak the millimeter very well” I love this channel, such a deep passion for naval history. I have always wanted to set foot on a battleship, they have always been my favorites since I was young. Funny enough my favorite ship isn’t even a BB, it’s the USS Enterprise CV-6
There are 25.4 of them per inch and8.46 to the barley corn.
So a 7.5 inch gun is a 190 mm outside these United States. Of course most US Army & US Air Force use the mm sizing for guns due to our tight integration with NATO. Trivia: the 16" guns on the USS New Jersey would be 406.4mm elsewhere while the 460mm guns of the INS Yamato are 18.1" in US terms.
Air Force: A-26 = Attack. P-51 = Pursuit. T-38 = Trainer. B-25 = Bomber. C-130 = Cargo. F-15 = Fighter. KC-135 = .. Dammit. Somebody from the Navy snuck into the Air Force ..
KC = Kerosene Carrier/Cargo (Kerosene is aviation gas)
@@JS-gg3kh But of course, "K" from kerosene! Thanks for answering a question I've been wondering for years.
F-117 ... 😁
Headscratcher: at the same time the USAAF used P for Pursuit, they used F for Photo reconnaissance, such as the F-4 version of the P-38.
My retired navy brother says an old navy goat once told him back in the eighties/nineties that the first Texas was called Bee-Bee-Oh-One while Indiana was called Bee-Bee-One. Semi-officially, written and spoken, and even on radio. In casual non-official convo, Texas was just Texas, no one used the BB or DD when talking about ships. We're into anything called Texas for the usual Texan reasons. Oh, and the "scuttlebutt" way back then was that the Navy didn't give the first Texas a hull number because she actually belonged to the great Republic of Texas and they didn't dare. LOL
I am pretty sure the real reason the original texas doesn't have a hull number is two fold. First, she was out of service by the time they actually started the two letter hull code and second, a lot of the older ships didn't have secondary names liKe Coastal Battleship No 1.
@@jacobdill4499: The same can be said for BATTLESHIP Maine (sunk Havana Harbor.)
Why does she get a hull number (and the first Texas doesn't?)
Also (related to the first Maine) why is it that early histories of Battleships refer to her as a Battleship and (at what point) is she dropped down to a Cruiser?
First Texas is still around. But underwater. Used as a target near Tangier Island, Maryland. It's might be shallow enough to dive.
@@ffv1607 she was actually ordered an an armored cruiser, and got ARC-1 because of that and was reclassified as a second class battleship before she was launched.
@@oceanmariner Tangier Island, Maryland? Is that near Tangier Island, Virginia? Or is this another Maryland propaganda campaign that anything in the Chesapeake is Maryland's?
The USN issued a General Order in July, 1920 establishing the hull number system. The basic type is designated by double letters (BB=Battleship CC=Battlecruiser DD=Destroyer SS=Submarine) with variants having different second letter (BM=Monitor CA=Armored Cruiser/Then Heavy Cruiser CB=Large Cruiser CL=Light Cruiser CM=Minelayer CV=Aircraft Carrier (they thought of them as being aircraft carrying cruisers) DL=Destroyer Leader DM=High Speed Minelayer DMS=High Speed Minesweeper SM=Submarine Minelayer and on and on). The number is in order of when the ship was authorized by Congress. Ships decommissioned by 1920 were not issued hull numbers (Sorry, Texas and Maine) and the sub Seal/G-1 was given SS 19 1/2 when she was forgotten when the list of numbers was published!
This was also around the same time the navies stopped using armored / protected cruiser designations and started using the modern light / heavy Cruiser designation.
CB is BattleCruiser
@@tedarcher9120 No, It is NOT!
@@tedarcher9120the op is correct although cb has been used in various navies most including the us navy differ to cc*
In computer programming, we often start counting with 0. Ergo we should retroactively call the original USS Texas BB-0.
That doesn't make it right.... And it doesn't make it the way most people count.
In other words, you doing it wrong, doesn't make it right.👍🤪
Let me introduce you to this concept known as "humor."
That was at a time then every bit was sacred. Nowadays we have XML. Xtrem Memory Loot.
@@lordgarion514 Don't make me get my fencepost...
Favorite? PT-486 (Patrol Torpedo Boat), built in 1942. The ex-PT-486 (Elco 80' PT boat) sailed out of Wildwood, NJ from 1954 through 2000 as the Sightseer. She is currently sitting in Kingston, NY under cover. Not many WWII wooden PT boats around anymore and only around 4 Elco's remaining. I had the great opportunity to work and live onboard her from 1979 through 1984. What an awesome experience to live and sleep in the same quarters used by the PT crews back in '42 through '45.
Was on the Sightseer twice while on vacation in Wildwood. First time maybe 7 or 8 years old then as a teenager with my buddies.
TDE: "Training Destroyer Escort." These were small-scale replicas of Destroyer Escorts, built on land, and used for training new sailors. For example TDE-1 Recruit still exists in the Liberty Station development in San Diego. You are welcome to visit her whenever you're in the city.
Liberty Station is definitely worth a visit! Great shops in the renovated brick barracks buildings, and take a few minutes to walk along the guns that mark lost subs that are on "eternal patrol."
@@j_taylor I went to boot camp in San Diego back in Oct-Dec 1988. Also went to A school out there as well. I guess the big blue ASW building is still there
@@RayBoebel You were almost exactly a year behind me. Hit RTC September 1987, then A-school from there.
Ryan, You showed and talked about the model of BB62 "before the 40mm guns were removed from turret 2". We have the set, tub and guns, removed from BB63 at my Museum!
Which museum is this?
The V in the aircraft carrier's CV comes from volare, the Latin verb "to fly". The Navy and Marines also use it in their designations for fixed wing/heavier than air squadrons, e.g. VMF-214, VF-143, etc.
As Ricardo Montalban would sing, VOLARE!!!!
As a Blacksheep fan, 214 will always be my favorite.
aViation , they used the second letter because "A" was already used.
I like your explanation better , because it makes us squids look smarter but unfortunately ....It really is aViation.
And the "C" stands for "Cantare"?
@@pervertt C is "Cruiser".
The first letter is Hull type , the second is the type of Superstructure on the hull.
The USS South Dakota BB-57 was originally called Battleship X and Old Nameless. The new USS South Dakota is SSN790
I served on an FFG back in the 80s. We had FFs as well back in those days. I was told that FF stood for Fast Frigate and that FFG stood for Fast Frigate Guided missile.
The Sub I served on was converted from SSBN (Submersible Ship Ballistic Nuclear), to SSGN (Submersible Ship Guided missile Nuclear).
circa 1980 FF-1063 has an ASROC launcher behind mount 51, the four outer cells were modified to launch Harpoon anti-ship missiles. And the ASROCs could be fitted with a 1kt nuclear depth charge.
many say they are "Fast Frigate" though neither the Knox nor the OHP classes could reach 30knots. They are actually the slowest fleet combatant. The reason for this is that they are primarily ASW warships and have single screw propulsion for less cavitation, while ships preforming sonar searches have to maintain speeds no higher than the lower 20s to use onboard sound systems. Thus the slow speed was not seen as an issue.
@@randyfant2588 Us Sub sailors were also told they are Fast Frigates because they don't take time changing propeller speed to change ship speed, they simply and quickly change prop blade angle, like a turboprop airplane. Maybe that's part of the reason, I dunno. My factual knowledge is submarines, more so Boomers.
BB-64, U.S.S. Wisconsin!
I was lucky enough for my dada to take me to the recommissioning back in 88’ when I was 8 years old. Very cool, and we got to see just about everything as it all freshly renovated. Life long Wisconsinite so I gotta go with her!
So happy to see all the videos you do and give so much knowledge out about a ship of the class and all the hidden things I missed on my tour as a kid. Thank you!
@@3socksMorgan I think she was known as big Whisky before the fender bender. I heard a recount of her being called that during the temper temper incident off Korea when she was hit by the shore battery that had a very short life.
I was there with my dad too. He was a BT during the Korean War. It was a very outstanding day. We went all over the ship. I got to see Fire Room number 3 where he worked.
@@gitzel80 Temper temper is a true story. My dad told me that story many times he was there. Check out The Fat Electrician about Iowa class.
I drove past it three days ago. It's in downtown Norfolk VA. It is HUGE and bigger than the city buildings that surround it. You can't miss it. I've been aboard it and the USS New Jersey.
I was a BT on an Ammunition Supply Ship during Desert Shield/Storm and took the smoke watch so I could be out on deck when the Wisconsin came alongside for UnRep. It was an awesome sight watching her come over the horizon at sunrise.
What's the best type of ship? Friend-ship.
I'll see myself out.
Royal Navy pennants are quite simple:- B battleship, C cruiser, D destroyer, F frigate , S submarine , P patrol , M minesweeper , R aiRcraft carrier, N miNelayer, A auxiliary, L landing ship. Quite logical really.
Show me the bridge of the "Enterprise". NCC-1701. No bloody A, B, C, or D.
One of my favorite uses of a hull number.
yo dawg, show me the OG Big E naymsayin man computer thang?
But plenty of CVs, BBs CVLs and DDs in the Star Fleet Battles universe game (no connection) 😀
1701-A is the best version, with it’s refit.
The NCC Pennant is supposed to be the manufacturer mark. Some people says it stands for Navy Construction Craft, but there is also Navy Curtis Craft.
Relics
Ryan you do a great job preserving and teaching our U.S. Navy history and heritage. Bravo Zulu Sir.
You are one of my favorite channels. Thank you, the whole team, for these great videos. BB-61 is my favorite ship. As a child We visited the Iowa State Capital and they have a good size model of the USS IOWA there. One of the reasons I joined the US Navy. I had spectacular duty stations when I was in. It was a privilege to serve my country. I had so much fun.
My favorite battleship was the only one not named after a state. The U.S.S. Kersage. She was an old pre dreadnought that gets converted into a crain ship. Always useful she helped salvage sunken ships. As her long career went on she eventually gave up her name so it could be used on a Essex class carrier. She was sold for scrapping after WW 2 ended after almost 50 years service.
LPH (Landing Platform Helicopter) Boxer (LPH-4); Princeton (LPH-5) and Valley Forge (LPH-8) were converted Essex class carriers while Thetis Bay (LPH-6) was a converted CVE. All others were built from ground up.
BB Big Balls. because one B wasn't enough for that much firepower.
We prefer bad bish
@BattleshipNewJersey That works for a fighting lady like New Jersey... although I'm a sucker for her sister Wisconsin. I'm a Badger State boy.
USS Texas (and USS Maine) were ACR-2 and -1 (Armored CruiseR) respectively. Very briefly USS Indiana was B-1 but was changed to BB-1 to distinguish from B*M* (Battle Monitor) used for extremely low freeboard costal defense only ships (two classes, Puritan and Arkansas, co-existed with Indiana and Iowa and both classes fought in the Spanish-American War). Cruisers were originally C-xnumber but were doubled up because because 1. it was becoming clear more cruiser types were being developed and 2. to maintain consistency with the BB, BM and ACR classifications (likewise subsequent classifications, DD). V was chosen for aircraft related vessels specifically because it was believed V would be the one letter less likely to be confused with another.
Think ACR-2 was the New York
ARC-2 was the New York. Also later known as Saratoga, CA-2, & Rochester.
In the early 70's, I was stationed on an "MSO'. My ship or boat as we called her was an all wooden construction ship. MSO was an "Ocean Minesweeper" hence MSO-457. The USS Loyalty.
Holy crap! 100,000,000 views! Good job!!! Thanks for all the great videos!
USNS Silas Bent (T-AGS-26). It was an ocean-going survey ship. My dad was an Oceanographer in NAVOCEANO (Naval Oceanographic Office). He worked on a lot of the technical equipment and sailed on it for many missions. I remember crawling all over it as a kid when it was docked near Washington DC.
BB stands for "Big Boat"
that is what i always believed and still choose to believe
You beat me to it , lol
If you happen to be where the guns are targeted, it's Big Boom!
"Battle Boat" sounds even more awesome lol.
I always say that Big Boat ... Big Bloomers ... Big Booms ... Big Bombs and Big Belly LOL
Im from Hackensack but live far away now, and while I have a casual interest in Naval history, listening to Ryan talk and his mannerisms make me feel like im home again. Thanks Ryan.
(Saturday Night Live) Port of Call, Bayonne, New Jersey czcams.com/video/jhioeOeOHsA/video.html
According to the Wikipedia page on the Royal Navy pennant system
The system of numbering pennants was adopted prior to the First World War to distinguish between ships with the same or similar names, to reduce the size and improve the security of communications, and to assist recognition when ships of the same class are together. Traditionally, a pennant number was reported with a full stop "." between the flag superior or inferior and the number, although this practice has gradually been dropped, and inter-war photos after about 1924 tend not to have the full stop painted on the hull. The system was used throughout the navies of the British Empire so that a ship could be transferred from one navy to another without changing its pennant number.
Ryan, my favourite navy ship?
Well, since I'm Army, and my father was also Army,
I didn't have a fave. But, since I've been watching this
channel, and have developed the curiosity, BB-62.
Dad was in the Pacific Theatre, WWII, and later on,
worked on the H-bomb testing in the Pacific. He was
a "super cool guy." Cryogenics expert. (He LOVED
saying that one.)
steve
My dad also was in the South Pacific AND at the H-bomb testing at Bikini and Enewetok in the early 50s. He developed cancer in his late 60s and the VA associated it with radiation exposure and gave him a 100% disability. He eventually died from complications of cancer-related surgeries.
Appreciate the explanation on the ship designation letters. I served on an SSN ( fast attack submarine ) while my Pop served on a DD (destroyer ). Cool video. Keep them coming!
My father served on CL-56 USS Columbia during WW2 I was alway fascinated by it and am fortunate to have her cruise book somewhere put away a prized artifact for me.
I served on the USS Glover that when I was aboard was FF-1098. She was commissioned AGDE-1, then became AGFF-1, then FF-1098, and after decmmissioning, spent a couple years doing sonar testing as part of the Military Sealift Command as a T-AGFF-1 before she finally got scrapped.
The term "Light Cruiser" was invented by Winston Churchill circa 1912. It is a contraction of "Light Armoured Cruiser" which was applied to 2nd class cruisers in 1912 due to the innovation of providing small cruisers with light 2 to 3-inch nickel-steel belts for the first time. So, originally, the term Light cruiser referred to protection and not what guns were were mounted which is why the 1915 Courageous class with 3-inch side protection but 15-inch guns were correctly identified under the term "Large Light Cruiser". Gun calibre was irrelevant as regards whether a vessel was a "Light" anything or not. It was all about the thickness of belt armour carried. Armoured cruisers with belts greater than 4-inches were sometimes (not that frequently) unofficially referred to as "Heavy Cruisers" in the pre-1930 period.
The Washington Naval treaty did not change the meaning of the term "Light Cruiser". In fact it did not distinguish between cruiser types at all. It just limited future cruiser construction to a maximum standard displacement of 10,000 tons and a gun calibre no greater than 8-inch. Almost all cruisers built during the 1920's are in effect light cruisers as per the original meaning of that term.
In the London Naval Treaty of 1930, Cruisers were divided into two categories Class A with 8-inch guns and Class B with 6-inch guns. For some obscure reason (probably technically ignorant politicians who didn't understand what made a light cruiser a light cruiser), Class A cruisers came to be called "Heavy Cruisers" and Class B cruisers came to be called "Light Cruisers" and the original (and correct) meaning behind the term "Light Cruiser" became lost. Nobody with any technical knowledge would consider an 8-inch gun a "Heavy" gun. This calibre was always considered a "medium" gun (as were all gun calibres between 5-inch and 10-inch).
Silly historian, it clearly stands for 🅱️attleshi🅱️.
For real though. I didn’t know and appreciate this channel and the content. Y’all are the best.
This is true.
After all, DD stands for DesDroyer, so iz only natural
As an old Marine, I always read BB in my mind as "BattleBoat." Never said it out loud around the Navy, of course, which is how I lived to be an old Marine. 😂
I played Battlefield 1942 back in the day and we always called the destroyer DD and battleship BB, I always just thought it was a gaming "shorthand" thing since you had to be fast typing. Very cool to learn that it's a real-world thing.
Ryan, I love what you do sharing the history of the greatest ship I ever served on in the US Navy. Battleship New Jersey BB-62, 3rd Div, Weapons Dept, BM3/2, 1984 - 1990. US Navy 1984 - 2009. Anyway, when I came aboard, I was taught that BB stood for - "Beach Bombardment". The old Battleships fought each other, but the modern Iowa class were designed to bomb the beaches with the 16-inch shells. Hence, "Beach Bombardment." Thanks, MA1 (SW) USN Ret. / LT USNSC Ret.
he briefly mentioned it, but SS is subs. post wwii, they went nuclear, thus SSN, and that's our attack subs today. then we added Ballistic missles, thus SSBN, and then a few of those had the tridents pulled out and guided missles put in thier place, thus SSGN.
CVE=Combustable, Vulnerable, Expendable. LST=Large Slow Target.
also Long Slow Target.
I was very fond of the USS New Orleans LPH -11 having been aboard her with the 31st MAU in 1974-75
I love this talk. I knew all of this due to a family lineage and understanding of the changes in titles. But Due to my understanding, I loved this talk more. Most people did not have the education I did growing up. I am so excited that this was explained so well. Please keep this kind of historical information flowing. Thank you to you and all of your staff!
- Tell me you're american without saying you're American
- i don't speak millimeter very well 😂
I am waiting for that whole "Tell me..." thing to just go ahead and die off. Can't happen fast enough.
It's hilarious because my American Ford and American Jeep are both metric.
@@JoshuaTootell True. But that fact doesn't impact the average US citizen. 55 years ago I was told that I was going to have to learn the metric system, turns out, not really.
I'm going to guess that 'Z' isn't random but stands for "Zeppelin".
2:30 you are absolutely right here. For battleships in the Royal Navy their pennant numbers were only two numbers in parentheses.
Examples are:
(03) HMS Warspite
(79) HMS Anson
(29) HMS Rodney
Remember that Zeppelins like the Macon and Shenandoah were commissioned, not pieces of equipment like fixed wing aircraft.
W for USCG came about when it was absorbed into the USN during WW2. The various cutters were slotted into the Navy type closest to their characteristics. Example - The Treasury class cruising cutters used the same hull and machinery as the Erie class gunboats (PG 50 and 51), so it was decided to rate them as PG's. But, for bookkeeping purposes, it was decided to modify the designation to reflect USCG ownership. It turned out that the USN was already using modified hull numbers for ships built for transfer to other nations (BDE for example for DE's transferred to Britain) and China had been assigned the letter C. The next available letter was W, so the Treasury class became WPG's.
Airships had hull numbers too! Rigid airships like Shenandoah were ZRs (apparently Z chosen for Zeppelin even though also used for non-Zeppelin types.) Blimps were ZP - the shape of the hull maintained by the pressure of the internal gas rather than a rigid frame, although later representing "Patrol" 14:56 like flying boats. Instead of names, blimps were further numbered by design series, hence the K-class of WW II. There was even an airship with a metal envelope (technically rigid) that was designated ZMC for airship metal-clad!
The question is NOT "Why wasn't the first US battleship designated as BB-1?" I kinda get why ----for the same reason why World War One wasn't World War One until there was a World War Two. Until then it was just "The Great War."
The REAL question is, "Why wasn't the second US battleship designated as BB-2?" That's the real puzzler!!!!
That's not true though. While the great war was commonly known as such, there are sources calling it world war one, or the first world war right from 1914. (the indianapolis star called it first world war in september 1914 for example).
In the 20's and 30's that became more common. Thats why you have books like Charles Repington's "the first world war" from 1920.
Interesting in-depth video on a subject we take for granted or just gloss over. Thank you
Very cool discussion. I was stationed on CVN-71 and never made the connection that the C still stood to the Cruiser designator. The times I heard it discussed they would say CV stood for carrier vessel. You've clarified that very nicely. Thanks!
One might suggest that BB would stand for the belt armor.
Belted Battleship. I am positive it makes as much sense as their original undocumented reason did.
BB is an initialism, an acronym makes a word.
OMG!
My hero, I've being irritated by this for ages but thought it just pasted into common parlance. Just like the misuse of cuckold and electic.
A Redacted watcher?
If it was an initialism it would just be "B".
Turn-of-the-century monitors were given the designation BM. presumably standing for "battle, monitor".
Back in the day I was on USS BLUE RIDGE (LCC-19). But what did LCC mean?
If you looked it up in official documentation it would tell you that the L stood for amphibious and the CC stood for Command and Control.
However we had a 3 star Admiral and his staff permanently welded onboard. If you asked them what LCC stood for they would tell Large Cabin Cruiser - theirs.
If you talked to the guys in operations they would tell you it was a reference to our steaming pattern during box ops - Large Concentric Circles.
And some of the enlisted would tell you it was a reference to what it meant to have a 3 star Admiral and his staff onboard - Let's Clean Continuously.
Hope that cleared things up. 😀
Don’t you try to gaslight me Ryan, we all know it stands for BabaBooey
There's a right way and there's a wrong way and then there is the Navy way.
It’s funny, I work on the USS Hornet museum (CV-12), and we have to explain this to people all the time. We’re the 8th ship named Hornet dating back to the Revolution in 1775. We’re also the second WWII carrier named Hornet (the other one being CV-8, the one that launched the Doolittle Raid against the Japanese home islands and was then sunk a few months later). My Hornet, 12, went through two major modifications in the 1950’s, and its designation was changed as well. The SCB-27 mod in ‘52-53 converted us into a CVA, an attack carrier. The SCB-125 mod in 1956 converted us to CVS-12, an ASW carrier (anti-submarine warfare). Confusing.
And, during WWII, there were 3 different types of carriers- fleet carriers (CV), Light Carriers (CVL), and Escort Carriers (CVE). They used different numbers for all of them. That’s why the Escorts and Light carrier numbers got up over 120, while the fleet numbers now (nuclear included) is only up into the 80’s.
Thank you for this video, wishing you guys all the best , keep up the great work in keeping this great ship alive, 👍🇬🇧❤️🇺🇲
my favorite hull type ? BBW
Broad Beamed Woman
Big boat.
Big Boat with Bigger Bullet lol
Escort carriers in WWII were called CVE - "combustible, vulnerable, and expendable".
Let's just say that, after Samar, Admiral Kurita might have called them "crazy, valiant, and exceptional".
I was fascinated for a while by the two US Navy battle monitors/sub tenders in Shanghai and Chefoo. Called, of course, BMs
Big beautiful ships
Im going with Big Bastards.
Ryan, I love the Iowas. The second thing is, could we get the NJ running on its own and do a cruise up the river with passengers paying their way? What an amazing thing that could be! Love you guys, maybe I'm crazy but NJ before Wiskey!
Unfortunately, several things prevent this, not the least of which the Museum’s contract with the Navy stipulates that the engines can NOT be reactivated. Second, all of the ships sea chests in the bottom of the ship that would supply cooling have been blanked over. Third, the museum simply does not have the resources nor the staff to undertake such a monumental task. For these and other reasons the ship will need to be towed via tugs to the dry dock later this year.
@@glennac doesn't the contract stipulate that the boilers can not be fired, instead of a stipulation regarding the engines? I'd be ok adding a few rental boilers on the deck and steaming that way.
I ask this question about 2 months ago this is so cool that yall are doing this.ty ty
I'm in the Navy and and a duty station or two ago, had some trouble explaining the history of the CV designator to the guys/gals we were getting out of boot, so this episode is particularly interesting to me!
Millimeters? We speak in Freedom Units here in America.
No you dont.
Battle 🅱️hip
CONGRATS ON 1million! 🎉🥂🍾 This requires a "History of the New Jerseys" video. Let's start the that 1st BB...Ahem...just a battleship, and end with the sub
I finally know all the names for ships exactly, thanks for that! I knew the hull designations of the ship classes from many hours of playing World of Warships, but not in detail.
Both Drachinifel and Ryan have weird pronunciation problems. Ryan just can’t say NUCLEAR correctly.
"Nuclear. It's pronounced nuclear." - Homer Simpson as a US Navy sailor
or Missouri.
Fun fact while battlecruisers were giving the designation CC their was a line of us ships given the the designation CB. The Alaska class “large cruisers” or imo super cruisers. They were a very small line of ships that sit between battleships and cruisers in terms of fire power, speed and armor sporting 12 inch guns and having a ~9 inch belt.
DD-793 USS Cassin Young. Thanks for the mention Ryan!
Honestly, the theory regarding the British and their Hull/Pendant numbers makes the most sense. Especially once we allied up, it would make sense that if you have ships of different nations together, you want an easy way to identify them when using a tactical map or markers. So having an easy distinguishment between American/British/French ships would make sense.
According to Google the hull number of the first modern battleship, USS Texas constructed in 1892, was AC1.
This is enlightening. I had always heard things like BB = Battle Boat or CV = Carrier Vessel. Thanks!
This confusion also carries in the Danish naval type description in hull numbers. Officially all grey patrol vessels are designated with a P in front of the number. But the patrol vessels manned with Home Guard personel has insted been given the prefix of MHV (Marine Hjemmeværns fartøj in Danish, but probably to keep it meaningful to other countries Marine Homeguard Vesselor Volunteer. Not quite sure which one).
And to really confuse the issue, the MHV vessels are designated according to their hull numbers that will change every time a new class is created. Currently this means that the older type is designated as the 800 class and carry penant numbers from 801 to 815. (I serve on MHV803). The newer and slightly more modern/sizeable class is the 900 class.
And to top this of, there is an interim vessel that was originally built as a clean 800 class, but was then rebuilt with a new section put in at her stern weatherdeck so that she could additionally carry environmental oil barriers and support in such situations aside the normal patrol and rescue duties (None of the MHV or P vessels carry any weapons other than handheld guns and machineguns). This ship is the only ship in the 850 class. But it proved to be so costly to rebuild existing 800 class wessels that the benefit of that was neglitable compared to building a completely new ship.
The result was that in order to have the longer hull with the aft deck of bigger size for the purpose mentioned, the remainder of ships built in order to complete the number of wanted MHV vessels became the slightly bigger 900 type vessels. But apart from the oil equipment on the 900 class and the addition of a pair of water canons mounted on the open bridge structure, the equipment on both classes are exactly the same from radioes to RHIP to portable pumps. The lot. And the crew is of the same size too.
Then comes the other confusing fact. The MHV vessels are named as a class according to their penant numbers. But the P designated vessels manned by actual navy personel is named as a class according to the name of the first vessel in each class. I.e. the P520 class is actually named the Diana class.
A truly logical system, right?
NATO adopted the USN approach and this is codified in APP3 - which I was fortunately aware of when giving a presentation to visitors after HMS Illustrious' (R06!) refit in the 90s. The only question from Princess Margaret was 'What does CVS mean' and I think I may have been the only one present to be able to explain it wasn't an abbreviation!
I served aboard USS Hermitage (LSD-34), USS O'Bannon (DD-987), USS Yorktown (CG-48), USS McInerny (FFG-8) and a few others over 20+ years.
Yorktown (CG-48) was my favorite ship to have served on.
I applied to all four of the battleships when they were being reactivated but I had just reported to a new command and they would not release me to return to sea duty.
When I first reported for duty on the aircraft carrier F. D. Roosevelt, the hull number was CVA-42 but was later changed to just CV-42.
BB-39 is my favorite. Also, I'd love to see a deep dive into the naming mechanics if you ever get the opportunity.
I hope i can one day go visit this ship, ive watched so many of these videos lol, its such a calm and awesome way of explaining. so many other videos i have to turn off lol
So😎a lot of good in information.man you know a lot of stuff.Thanks for your videos.Always enjoy.
Tender Navy: AD-15 USS Prairie (Auxiliary Destroyer) of which I was stationed on and participated in overhaul of BB62 while in Long Beach in the 80's. AS-19 USS Proteus (Auxiliary Submarine) which was the only tender to have a missile magazine (Polaris). LST-1185 USS Schenectady (Landing Ship Tank)
There were a few battleship hull symbols the US Navy developed but never assigned to their own ships, that is OBB for Obsolete Battleship and OBM for Obsolete Monitor. ONI used these hull symbols for other nations for example the old German battleship Schleswig-Holstein was OBB-1 and Schlesten was OBB-2 in ONI references during WWII. Germany didn't use hull symbols and hull numbers for their battleships at the time so the numbers was just something ONI arbitrarily made up. These hull symbols existed from 1920 to officially 1930 with the London Naval Treaty although ONI publications as late as 1942 still use them.
Some of the hull number letters have meaning. CV carrier vessel, CVN=Carrier vessel nuclear, SS submersible ship, SSN submersible nuclear, SSBN submersible ship ballistic nuclear.
"people say,why didnt they code them BS but obviously that conjures up different images,so anyway we called submarines SS" will say that part made me chuckle
Interesting history,,thanks for sharing,,😊
As noted, CGC Taney was a “WPG” for awhile (1940s, 1960s, thereabouts) when the Coast Guard just added “W” to the Navy’s system. A “PG” was probably patrol gunship or something. In the 1960s the Coast Guard found it convenient to start their own system for the larger cutters. However, the 65’ icebreaking tug is still a light tug (YTL) with a “W” in front of it.
In 64 I was aboard the Dexter just down the pier from the Taney at Government Island (Base Alameda)
Thanks for the explanation. 😊❤
so designation is the Hullmark card of the Navy lol (edit: thank you for some interesting history about ships and classification, hi from Canada)
I did time on the LHA 4 Nassau (Landing Helicopter Assault), LPD 12 Shreveport (Landing Platform Dock), and the LST 1193 Fairfax County (Landing Ship Tank) back in '89-'90.
My first and favorite ship was a destroyer, Spruance class USS Caron (DD 970). Not designated guided missile (DDG) even though she mounted Harpoon missiles for the anti-ship mission and Sea Sparrow missiles for anti-air self defense.
To show how the destroyer type has grown, in WWII most but not all US destroyers displaced (weighed) between 2000 and 2300 tons. A 1980s Spruance displaced around 7800 tons and today's Arleigh Burke class DDGs around 9000 tons.
I could be wrong but I think they limited the G for Guided Missile to only ships with area air defense missiles since having such missiles was a unique capability. When you went smaller than a frigate just having any missiles was unique so a patrol boat with Harpoons would be a PTG for Patrol Torpedo Boat w/ Guided Missiles.
BB: Big Boy
CC: Cheap copy
DD: Dinky Duck
SS: Strange Submariner
SSN: Strange Submariners Now glow in the dark
CV: Cool aViators
Great information 👍🏽
I enjoyed your video. It is a bit confusing. In the 1980's frigates were larger than and some were reclassified a cruisers. I served on two LST's which means landing ship tank, although we usually called them large slow targets. My favorite amphibious designation, being a child of the 1960's, was for landing ship dock, LSD. So, BS might have been a popular designation for battleships.
love those DDGs! and by the way, my Dad server in WW2 on the RCN Pennant number K170
Let’s not forget the Destroyer-Leader line (DL) which had some guided missile and nuclear powered classes, giving us the DLGN, which became CGN in the cruiser realignment of 1975.
Carriers also had CVAN (simplified to CVN once the CVS were gone) and the one-off CVHE USS Thetis Bay, which later became an LPH.
Good job Ryan definitely hammering out the origins of designations especially with the cruiser lineage of aircraft carriers but I do have to point out sir that after the USS Midway which had her Hull geometry adapted from the montana-class battleship aircraft carriers while they do retain the CV whole designation we're really battleships derived hulls after that so I wouldn't say the CV designation should be changed but it definitely isn't a cruiser anymore their scope and scale is greater than that of any Dreadnought or battleship