It really does. Removing the eastern arm was so short sighted, even the planned upgrades of the ECML won't even come close to delivering the benefits HS2 would've provided for the North East. It's incredibly frustrating.
The North East has been getting a raw deal from our governments for the last 60 years or more. It took the brunt of the destruction of our railway network under the Beeching axe in the 1960s whilst London and the south east kept the bulk of theirs. Also, I grew up there in the 1980s whilst Thatcher was short sightedly destroying our heavy industries which disproportionately affected the north of England - in 1980 in County Durham, Consett steel works, which at the time was producing high quality steel, was profitable and employed around 1/3 of the town's population was closed - a blow from which the town has never fully recovered. Ditto the hundreds of mining communities when that industry was also unnecessarily murdered. The North East was never going to get a good deal out of HS2 - it was always intended to funnel yet more of the country's wealth into London. Even the government's levelling up northern powerhouse BS does not recognise an England north of the M62 fixated as it is on Leeds and Manchester.
So basicly first it goes through the west coast mainline then the chiltern mainline then through east west rail (maybe already exsisting tracks to bletchly) now we head north all the way to a new station called interchange lol but then turns left from delta junction to b'ham curzon st.
According to the HS2 Ltd website it's just "Interchange" possibly to save confusion with the city centre station and Interchange is designed to serve Solihull and the surrounding area.
this should have been built 50 years ago, instead we wasted time making tilting trains to work on the current rail lines. Better late than never though.
Well, they'll get a little bit of it. Crewe still likely to be the endpoint for HS2 - though, you never know with this lot. In my opinion, construction should've start now, as well as a full upgrade to digital signalling up to Manchester (if that hasn't already happened.)
Suggested all GWR and Elizabeth Line trains will stop there hence the need for 8 platforms. For GWR it'll probably add 3-4 minutes to the journey and Liz Line 2-3 minutes. Which I think is a small price to pay for the improved connectivity the station will provide.
@@Rail_Focus I think I saw somewhere that the plan is for it to be a major interchange so anyone going to/from Heathrow and heading north via train can use the GWR/LizPurpLine to Old Oak Common and then take HS2 north (as long as north is Birmingham and/or the North West, can't let the North East have any fun).
@@YetAnotherGeorgeth Indeed, I wrote an article for Rail Magazine about the connectivity and journey time savings to Heathrow and Reading in the West and Canary Wharf in the east.
Landmarks cause damp effect earthquakes aftermath of launches... How they people faith protector banned HS2? That was pretty anger other people hell of this noise from HS2!! 😡😡
I'm not sure if the passenger numbers would justify the cost and slowing down HS2 services. Milton Keynes will benefit from more Avanti services stopping there so the gains from say traveling from MK to Calvert to change trains vs just using the fast Avanti services would be minimal. The only other large catchment is Bicester, but not sure that alone would justify £500m for a new station.
Back in 2020 the Official pre-pandemic, pre remote-working, forecasts, for phase one, were that by 2037/8, 15,439 passengers will travel daily, between Central London and Central Birmingham, across the 342, eight car HS2 train sets, that will depart at five min intervals between 05:00 and 23:59 (Approximately ~45 passengers per train, or ~6 passengers per carriage). Though what i can't find are any official estimates for the probability you'll still end up being sat next to a nutter, with week old egg sandwiches in a pocket, or even worse an MP, any ideas?
As you point out, those numbers were pre-pandemic pre-remote working forecasts and it is hard to imagine that the estimate still holds up. Whilst your ~45 passengers per train number sounds like a chronic under utilization of a huge piece of infrastructure, it is of course worse than that because the bulk of those supposed 15,439 daily passengers would be travelling in the morning and evening peak commuting periods so the 'off peak' trains will be virtually empty. That is borne out by the London Underground which, anywhere outside of peak times at the start and end of the working, can often be almost eerily quiet.
The "capacity" claim just isn't valid. There is a huge amount of capacity within the existing network with relatively small expenditure compared to the abhorrent amounts being wasted on HS2 which is, simply put, only destructive.
Yes our existing network has capacity but if we want high speed services to rival domestic air travel, we need something like HS2. There are ways to reduce the cost but let’s be honest, anything the British government does if often mediocre at best. We could also make it cheaper by reducing the speeds. The current speed is going to be 400 km/h or 250 mp/h. By dropping the speeds down to 350, 300, or even 250 km/h, would reduce massive amounts of construction costs whilst still providing adequate travel time. The eastern leg of HS2 was the better side because we could easily link the metropolitan corridor of Nottingham, Sheffield, Leeds, with one high speed line and then expand from it to Newcastle, Liverpool, Hull etc. We need to future proof our railways. That’s the reason we are building HS2. sadly though people will just continue to use their cars because the tickets will be extortionate because of privatisation.
Phase 1 includes 4 huge new stations, 30 miles of tunnels and Britain's longest railway bridge. For Paris-Lyon is that at 2019 prices? Other than that it shouldn't cost so much to build things in Britain, but if successive Governments would commit to projects we could retain the skills needed which would help reduce costs, but we always seem to have big gaps between projects finishing and starting meaning skills and manpower are lost.
I’m not entirely sure who has got a good deal out of HS2, the Midlands aren’t getting anywhere near the benefits they were expecting and anybody living within 30 miles of central London has to travel back into London to get the HS2 trains back out again…I live in the West London area and the carnage being caused to the existing Road network and surrounding area has to be seen to be believed. Would it not have been easier to spend the money improving the Public Transport for the Midlands commuters, we’ve had our fair share of Investment for London’s commuters what about the rest of the country?
We need both. Building things in the UK is disruptive, it can't be helped, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't build anything. Local people are unhappy about the disruption caused by East West rail and people in Birmingham were unhappy about Midlands Metro extensions causing disruption. So even improvements to local-regional links causes disruption
@@Rail_Focus I don't think so.... It'll be too expensive for most people and the proposed 4 day week directive will kill at least 20% of takings. White elephant mate
How do you know it'll be expensive. Have you seen the ticket prices? It makes absolutely no sense to run empty trains, so to claim people will be priced off the line is absurd. Latest train usage statistics 100% of pre Covid, achieved a year ahead of Gov predictions. Not every train journey is to work. Crossrail is already performing well ahead of predictions with no noticeable reduction in traffic in other lines.
@@Rail_Focus you disagree? How can a cost of over 100 billion be justified? What percentage of the British population benefit from HS2? Do you perchance have something personally to gain from they 100 billion? How about the politicians that endorsed this project? Is your PR organisation funded from this rather humongous pot of cash?
@@genrege lol, having to resort to accusations that anyone who dares support HS2 is set to gaining from it, how pathetic. But no I have nothing to gain from HS2. Flattered that you think I'm a PR organisation though.
@@Rail_FocusIt's not a question of daring to support it. Can you provide any cost/benefit argument for HS2? Do you have any idea what else 100 billion could do for national morale at a time when people can't afford to feed their families or heat their homes? Sure it's a fantastic feat of engineering. That doesn't justify the cost. If you're not directly in PR, then fair enough. But you're clearly won over by this project for whatever reason, and to call names at someone who questions its value for money shows a lack of critical thinking on your part. If you wish to take part in this kind of propaganda, don't you feel a responsibility to take a *balanced* view of all arguments for and against? I won't even start on the ecological destruction this project has brought since you haven't provided one shred of justification for the financial side.
HS2 is a monumental waste of money that the UK government no longer has since it unnecessarily spaffed half a trillion pounds up the wall in the mismanagement of a certain health event 3 years ago. The thing I still cannot get my head around is where the passenger demand for HS2 is coming from particularly in this new era of working from home and zoom meetings. I have on occasion travelled on a 'rush hour' WCML train from Birmingham which arrives in London for standard office hours and it is invariably virtually empty until Milton Keynes on the edge of the 50 mile commuter belt around London when the train can start to become quite crowded. HS2 will do little or nothing to relieve this. Also, I recently watched a video overflying the HS2 route between the M25 and Birmingham and the level of destruction of the lovely countryside along the route is incredible. How anyone has the nerve to call the ripping up of this much countryside 'green' is quite beyond me.
ah the old "I travelled on a quiet train so we don't HS2" argument. 30m people and counting use Avanti services despite the Pandemic. The real thing holding back passenger demand is Avanti's poor performance, ECML services are almost back to 100% and rising. The nature of travel may have changed but passenger numbers as a whole are rising steadily, so to say we shouldn't invest in rail because "everyone's working from home" is short sighted. HS2 may be one single project but it's a heck of a lot less destructive than the road building projects that are still happening across the country. If "everyone's working from home" why do we need RIS2,3,4,5....?
As it is just a link Manchester to London I think they are expanding the commuter belt. We really do not need "High speed" trains and tracks in the UK, the UK, it is not big enough but we do need more capacity to try and get freight off the roads. The money being spent could have benefitted the whole country if used wisely, unfortunately it is more of a statement than a good idea.
@@johnlightfoot9967 perhaps watch the episode which shows where HS2 will serve. In it's current form it will unlock capacity on the WCML for improved regional connectivity and freight, but if built in full to Leeds would unlock capacity on the MML and ECML. But even in its current form serves many more places than just Birmingham and Manchester
It's certainly destroying/altering thousands of acres of countryside. I like railways but sadly I can't see this greatly reinvigorating the north of England. Due to the cost of it, the fares are sure to be high and few will be able to afford tickets. We need huge investment in railways - it's just a matter of priority in choice of capital investment projects.
RIS2 is currently destroying much more but you don't hear people complaining about road building. HS2 is just an easy target as it's 1 big project. I can't understand why people think the tickets will be unaffordable, who wants to run an empty railway? HS2 will just take over the role of Avanti services and tickets will be priced as such, Avanti is still carrying 30m passengers and rising per year despite the Pandemic and their recent poor performance. ECML long distance service are almost back to 100%. So yes we need to invest in mainline capacity which HS2 is.
@Rail_Focus Vinci and Bouyges (both French Contractors) are building some of the phases. And there are also Dutch, Austrian and Swedish Contractors plus British Contractors. It's a myth that the Brits can't build.
Rail photography on Redbbuble, prints, mugs, t-shirts and much more: www.redbubble.com/people/EngPhotography/explore?page=1&sortOrder=recent
Interesting overview of phase 1
Sounds like Old Oak Common is going to be a very busy station when everything is up and running
I believe Old Oak Common will be a game changer in terms of connectivity, not only between the North and London but North and South West.
@@Rail_Focus it’ll compete with Birmingham New Street in terms of national connectivity.
The North East got such a raw deal out of this.
It really does. Removing the eastern arm was so short sighted, even the planned upgrades of the ECML won't even come close to delivering the benefits HS2 would've provided for the North East. It's incredibly frustrating.
Wouldn’t surprise me if the east arm gets green lit after the real pro’s of a finished west arm is completed.
@@dennyroozeboom4795 let's hope so 🤞
The Northeast does already have the ECML. That’s had a number of projects recently or ongoing
The North East has been getting a raw deal from our governments for the last 60 years or more. It took the brunt of the destruction of our railway network under the Beeching axe in the 1960s whilst London and the south east kept the bulk of theirs. Also, I grew up there in the 1980s whilst Thatcher was short sightedly destroying our heavy industries which disproportionately affected the north of England - in 1980 in County Durham, Consett steel works, which at the time was producing high quality steel, was profitable and employed around 1/3 of the town's population was closed - a blow from which the town has never fully recovered. Ditto the hundreds of mining communities when that industry was also unnecessarily murdered. The North East was never going to get a good deal out of HS2 - it was always intended to funnel yet more of the country's wealth into London. Even the government's levelling up northern powerhouse BS does not recognise an England north of the M62 fixated as it is on Leeds and Manchester.
Great explanation of the challenges being overcome to build the line. Massive project.
Cheers, glad I managed to cover it well 😁
Great vid. Really good overview of where the route goes. Keep up the good work👍
Thanks, glad you liked it
Very informative, many thanks.
Glad you found it informative 🙂
Great overview!
Thank you 🙂
Great video, thanks!
Glad you liked it 🙂
Thanks , really enjoyed, liked and subbed.
Great, thanks for the sub 🙂
Great project
So basicly first it goes through the west coast mainline then the chiltern mainline then through east west rail (maybe already exsisting tracks to bletchly) now we head north all the way to a new station called interchange lol but then turns left from delta junction to b'ham curzon st.
EWR goes over the HS2 tracks. Luckily EWR and HS2 are being constructed at the same time, so the bridge crossing can be built before EWR opens.
Very interesting, thanks. Is that station really just going to be called “Interchange” rather than “Birmingham interchange”?
According to the HS2 Ltd website it's just "Interchange" possibly to save confusion with the city centre station and Interchange is designed to serve Solihull and the surrounding area.
this should have been built 50 years ago, instead we wasted time making tilting trains to work on the current rail lines. Better late than never though.
HS2 will be ideal for cities in the North of England that need better high speed railway services. And for HS2 to be greener as well.
Well, they'll get a little bit of it. Crewe still likely to be the endpoint for HS2 - though, you never know with this lot. In my opinion, construction should've start now, as well as a full upgrade to digital signalling up to Manchester (if that hasn't already happened.)
Ok. Sounds more interesting.
🤦♂
Are the 8 surface tracks at OOC for the GWR Mainline? Seems like a lot. Also, will all GWR trains stop there adding to their journey times?
Suggested all GWR and Elizabeth Line trains will stop there hence the need for 8 platforms. For GWR it'll probably add 3-4 minutes to the journey and Liz Line 2-3 minutes. Which I think is a small price to pay for the improved connectivity the station will provide.
@@Rail_Focus I think I saw somewhere that the plan is for it to be a major interchange so anyone going to/from Heathrow and heading north via train can use the GWR/LizPurpLine to Old Oak Common and then take HS2 north (as long as north is Birmingham and/or the North West, can't let the North East have any fun).
@@YetAnotherGeorgeth Indeed, I wrote an article for Rail Magazine about the connectivity and journey time savings to Heathrow and Reading in the West and Canary Wharf in the east.
Northeast does already have the ECML, which has some smaller projects of its own underway
@@andrewreynolds4949 do any of those projects help connection to Heathrow? Currently it’s inconvenient to get from ECML to Heathrow in central London
Its a shame as always that.our short sighted government is doing a half ass job as usual. They just need to build the whole thing.
It's incredibly frustrating, hopefully the Government will see sense.
@@Rail_Focus Hopefully the *next* government will see sense.
Landmarks cause damp effect earthquakes aftermath of launches... How they people faith protector banned HS2? That was pretty anger other people hell of this noise from HS2!! 😡😡
What? 🤷
Why not build an interchange station where HS2 crosses EWR? Maybe not now but further down the line.
I'm not sure if the passenger numbers would justify the cost and slowing down HS2 services. Milton Keynes will benefit from more Avanti services stopping there so the gains from say traveling from MK to Calvert to change trains vs just using the fast Avanti services would be minimal. The only other large catchment is Bicester, but not sure that alone would justify £500m for a new station.
Is there a chance phase 2 could be scaled back? I always worry about our commitment to huge projects 😅
It's anyone's guess at the moment, all sorts of rumours flying around, but Government are still saying they're committed to building HS2 to Manchester
@@Rail_FocusAll seems to have changed now though.
Indeed 😥
Great vid. You said the Bromford tunnel is 3.5 miles. Isn't the plan to extend to about 5 miles?
Thanks. Not sure about Bromford tunnel, I just used the current information on the HS2 Ltd website. I'll double check though.
Just had a look, 3.5 miles is the new length, 5.7km
@@Rail_Focus I got miles and km mixed up
Hopefully the work carries on i need to keep filling my pension fund
🙄
WHEN❓
2029-2033
Back in 2020 the Official pre-pandemic, pre remote-working, forecasts, for phase one, were that by 2037/8, 15,439 passengers will travel daily, between Central London and Central Birmingham, across the 342, eight car HS2 train sets, that will depart at five min intervals between 05:00 and 23:59 (Approximately ~45 passengers per train, or ~6 passengers per carriage). Though what i can't find are any official estimates for the probability you'll still end up being sat next to a nutter, with week old egg sandwiches in a pocket, or even worse an MP, any ideas?
As you point out, those numbers were pre-pandemic pre-remote working forecasts and it is hard to imagine that the estimate still holds up. Whilst your ~45 passengers per train number sounds like a chronic under utilization of a huge piece of infrastructure, it is of course worse than that because the bulk of those supposed 15,439 daily passengers would be travelling in the morning and evening peak commuting periods so the 'off peak' trains will be virtually empty. That is borne out by the London Underground which, anywhere outside of peak times at the start and end of the working, can often be almost eerily quiet.
You've missed out a crucial element, how long will it take to travel... kind of the point, of high speed trains
I've made several videos about HS2. Journey times are only 1 part of the benefits.
The "capacity" claim just isn't valid. There is a huge amount of capacity within the existing network with relatively small expenditure compared to the abhorrent amounts being wasted on HS2 which is, simply put, only destructive.
Yes our existing network has capacity but if we want high speed services to rival domestic air travel, we need something like HS2. There are ways to reduce the cost but let’s be honest, anything the British government does if often mediocre at best. We could also make it cheaper by reducing the speeds. The current speed is going to be 400 km/h or 250 mp/h. By dropping the speeds down to 350, 300, or even 250 km/h, would reduce massive amounts of construction costs whilst still providing adequate travel time. The eastern leg of HS2 was the better side because we could easily link the metropolitan corridor of Nottingham, Sheffield, Leeds, with one high speed line and then expand from it to Newcastle, Liverpool, Hull etc.
We need to future proof our railways. That’s the reason we are building HS2. sadly though people will just continue to use their cars because the tickets will be extortionate because of privatisation.
are you sure this is a good idea Yogi?
Absolutely 😁
LGV Paris-Lyon £4.7m per kilometre
LGV Méditerranée £16.9m per kilometre
HS2 £104.8m per kilometre
What's wrong in the UK ?!?!?!
Phase 1 includes 4 huge new stations, 30 miles of tunnels and Britain's longest railway bridge. For Paris-Lyon is that at 2019 prices? Other than that it shouldn't cost so much to build things in Britain, but if successive Governments would commit to projects we could retain the skills needed which would help reduce costs, but we always seem to have big gaps between projects finishing and starting meaning skills and manpower are lost.
I’m not entirely sure who has got a good deal out of HS2, the Midlands aren’t getting anywhere near the benefits they were expecting and anybody living within 30 miles of central London has to travel back into London to get the HS2 trains back out again…I live in the West London area and the carnage being caused to the existing Road network and surrounding area has to be seen to be believed. Would it not have been easier to spend the money improving the Public Transport for the Midlands commuters, we’ve had our fair share of Investment for London’s commuters what about the rest of the country?
We need both. Building things in the UK is disruptive, it can't be helped, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't build anything. Local people are unhappy about the disruption caused by East West rail and people in Birmingham were unhappy about Midlands Metro extensions causing disruption. So even improvements to local-regional links causes disruption
Who is going to use it?!
The 30m+ passengers a year who still use Avanti services despite the Pandemic and Avanti's poor service of late.
@@Rail_Focus I don't think so....
It'll be too expensive for most people and the proposed 4 day week directive will kill at least 20% of takings. White elephant mate
How do you know it'll be expensive. Have you seen the ticket prices? It makes absolutely no sense to run empty trains, so to claim people will be priced off the line is absurd. Latest train usage statistics 100% of pre Covid, achieved a year ahead of Gov predictions. Not every train journey is to work. Crossrail is already performing well ahead of predictions with no noticeable reduction in traffic in other lines.
RIPOFF HIGH SPEED 2 NOW!!
Right...... Okay
Waste of money
i agree we should just cut through those woodlands, and its too fast
Disagree, but thanks for the engagement
@@Rail_Focus you disagree? How can a cost of over 100 billion be justified? What percentage of the British population benefit from HS2? Do you perchance have something personally to gain from they 100 billion? How about the politicians that endorsed this project? Is your PR organisation funded from this rather humongous pot of cash?
@@genrege lol, having to resort to accusations that anyone who dares support HS2 is set to gaining from it, how pathetic. But no I have nothing to gain from HS2. Flattered that you think I'm a PR organisation though.
@@Rail_FocusIt's not a question of daring to support it. Can you provide any cost/benefit argument for HS2? Do you have any idea what else 100 billion could do for national morale at a time when people can't afford to feed their families or heat their homes? Sure it's a fantastic feat of engineering. That doesn't justify the cost. If you're not directly in PR, then fair enough. But you're clearly won over by this project for whatever reason, and to call names at someone who questions its value for money shows a lack of critical thinking on your part. If you wish to take part in this kind of propaganda, don't you feel a responsibility to take a *balanced* view of all arguments for and against? I won't even start on the ecological destruction this project has brought since you haven't provided one shred of justification for the financial side.
HS2 is a monumental waste of money that the UK government no longer has since it unnecessarily spaffed half a trillion pounds up the wall in the mismanagement of a certain health event 3 years ago. The thing I still cannot get my head around is where the passenger demand for HS2 is coming from particularly in this new era of working from home and zoom meetings. I have on occasion travelled on a 'rush hour' WCML train from Birmingham which arrives in London for standard office hours and it is invariably virtually empty until Milton Keynes on the edge of the 50 mile commuter belt around London when the train can start to become quite crowded. HS2 will do little or nothing to relieve this.
Also, I recently watched a video overflying the HS2 route between the M25 and Birmingham and the level of destruction of the lovely countryside along the route is incredible. How anyone has the nerve to call the ripping up of this much countryside 'green' is quite beyond me.
ah the old "I travelled on a quiet train so we don't HS2" argument. 30m people and counting use Avanti services despite the Pandemic. The real thing holding back passenger demand is Avanti's poor performance, ECML services are almost back to 100% and rising. The nature of travel may have changed but passenger numbers as a whole are rising steadily, so to say we shouldn't invest in rail because "everyone's working from home" is short sighted.
HS2 may be one single project but it's a heck of a lot less destructive than the road building projects that are still happening across the country. If "everyone's working from home" why do we need RIS2,3,4,5....?
As it is just a link Manchester to London I think they are expanding the commuter belt. We really do not need "High speed" trains and tracks in the UK, the UK, it is not big enough but we do need more capacity to try and get freight off the roads. The money being spent could have benefitted the whole country if used wisely, unfortunately it is more of a statement than a good idea.
@@johnlightfoot9967 perhaps watch the episode which shows where HS2 will serve. In it's current form it will unlock capacity on the WCML for improved regional connectivity and freight, but if built in full to Leeds would unlock capacity on the MML and ECML. But even in its current form serves many more places than just Birmingham and Manchester
It's certainly destroying/altering thousands of acres of countryside. I like railways but sadly I can't see this greatly reinvigorating the north of England. Due to the cost of it, the fares are sure to be high and few will be able to afford tickets. We need huge investment in railways - it's just a matter of priority in choice of capital investment projects.
RIS2 is currently destroying much more but you don't hear people complaining about road building. HS2 is just an easy target as it's 1 big project. I can't understand why people think the tickets will be unaffordable, who wants to run an empty railway? HS2 will just take over the role of Avanti services and tickets will be priced as such, Avanti is still carrying 30m passengers and rising per year despite the Pandemic and their recent poor performance. ECML long distance service are almost back to 100%. So yes we need to invest in mainline capacity which HS2 is.
@@Rail_Focus I do complain about road building as well. I have not heard of RIS2.
@@christopherfairs9095 Road Invest Strategy, worth looking at. RIS2 only covers to 2025, there will have been 3 and 4 before HS2 is complete,
@@Rail_Focus Thank you.
Just get the damn chinese or the french to help the british build this HS rail
French have been involved. A French contractor brought over a load of scrapers to move a heck tonne of earth
@Rail_Focus Vinci and Bouyges (both French Contractors) are building some of the phases. And there are also Dutch, Austrian and Swedish Contractors plus British Contractors. It's a myth that the Brits can't build.