Indian 4-Shot Repeating Matchlock Toradar
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- čas přidán 14. 01. 2021
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Today, courtesy of Mike Carrick from Arms Heritage magazine, we are taking a look at a quite old Indian matchlock "toradar". Not just any matchlock, but one with a 4-shot revolving cylinder. Matchlocks appeared in India in the 1500s, and repeating ones like this appeared by the 1600s - firearms development was not the exclusive domain of Europe. This particular example shows influences from both east and west, with a typically Asian forward-moving match and a stock resembling an Afghan jezail.
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"Matchlocks obsolete?! I can be just as fast with my matchlock as you flintlocks, and then I'll take your flintlocks after using my matchlock!" - Some guy in 1800s India, probably.
“JuSt As GooD!”
That comment from the bolt guns are obsolete (technically part 2) video is just ridiculous though
**rope burns out**
Thats sounds like my local demographics.
Except I had noticed you five minutts before you could shoot, this is not a good stelth weapon!
And if there are 5 enemies, you can club the last one to death with the sheer heft of your mechanism
Did I load 3 or4 ? Do ya feel lucky?
You probably need all 4 shots just to hit something to start with :)
That sounds dirty
Considering how it's bent, that might very well have been what happened.
...is that a euphemism?
"Was that 4 jazails with one shot or 1 jazail with 4 shots!?" -A poor redcoat, probably
Just FYI, muskets are still known as toradars today. At least where I am, North India. Some are still in use in smaller/ remote villages, mostly for crop protection.
is there some written or unwritten regulation recognizing muskets as weapons weak enough to be more freely owned? or are those farmers also allowed to own cartridge-firing rifles and shotguns? according to wikipedia, an indian jurisdiction that follows federal gun laws should enforce the requirement of a firearms licence renewed every 5 years for all firearms (and anything self-loading is banned).
@@Ass_of_Amalekno, no such regulation. Muskets are treated like any other firearm, not that there are many still in use.
One can apply for a gun licence and if you get it (gun ownership isn't really encouraged here) it has to be renewed every 5 years. It is also normally restricted to one state.
Semi-autos are not allowed for civilian use, a tiny minority can get licences in case it's been inherited etc.
It is so wholesome that apparently since the dawn of the firearms-age the phrase "Needs more gun." is a thing.
"use a gun. and if that don't work, use more gun."
@@thatguybrody4819 and you better hope, not pointed at you.
What am I gonna do when some big mean mother hubbers try to tear me a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer, use a gun, and if that don’t work, use more gun.
Take for example this heavy caliber tripod designed to me, built by me, and you’d best hope... not pointed at you.
I don't know if I'd describe that as wholesome.
You have an infants outlook on WORLD history
What I really like of early firearms is feeling that the gunsmith put a chunk of his soul when making them.
And a chunk of questionably durable iron too. Maybe even multiple chunks if if you were rich and too tacticool for the late 1400s.
@@wildward93 hehe that also helps.
@@wildward93I definitely believe you random internet dweller
I just wonder about the possibility of matchlock repeating, and several minutes later this video show up. You never disappointed us, Ian
1580: objektkatalog.gnm.de/objekt/W1984
You ask and gun Jesus provides.
There's several categories the more common repeaters tended to fall into.
Superposed cartridges, meaning you got one barrel, multiple locks and shots loaded one after another.
Rotating magazine, meaning your revolvers, pepperboxes and turret loadouts.
Harmonica guns, which basically had a metal block for a magazine that inched from left to right till the ammo was spent.
And finally quickloaders, which assemble the shot inside the gun from a powder and shot reservoire.
All of these work with all forms of musket locks and all these were kinda expensive and finicky.
They don't call him gun Jesus just because the hair.
“I know what you’re thinking. Did he fire four shots or only three? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a . .60 magnum, the most powerful revolving matchlock in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?”
every single video with old firearms that have more than two shots available there's millions of these quotes
@@TheMegaPingasMobile Yeah, I know, not original. But I felt I had to, just to keep up the revered CZcams tradition.
@@hiltonian_1260 you kept up with tradition kudos
Amazing how these quotes stick in our minds.Especially considering how long ago "Dirty Harry" was made.
@@geraldreynolds9650
It is because Harry knew the gun was empty and was making a bad ass bluff.
This is a tusken raider favorite
I was wondering why this thing wasn't included in his "Guns of Star Wars" episode.
LOL! I think I'm 1/4 Tuscan raider....
Boba Fett approves.
The cycler rifles were based on Afghan jezails, which have the same sort of stock and a very long barrel.
@@DougShoeBushcraft no
I'm loving the high capacity, assault matchlock! Love these videos!
Wait !! Joe 'sniffin' biden is thinking about banning this because it is high capacity ...lol😂😂🤣🤣
Looks like someone got their reply deleted. CZcams overlord is not liking this assault evil heat seaking bullet firing high capacity powerful rifle 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
This looks like a gun from Warhammer Vermintide
No shit i was trying to figure out what that videogame is called until you said it
@TripleHerbals YES! 😂
Or maybe skaven jezzail, yes-yes
It's almost like they used real life to base their weapons on
SIGMAR BLESS THIS SHOT!!
I've been watching this channel for nearly a decade and never really commented. Every time I think I've seen everything, you post something like this, and I learn or see something new about firearms and history. Thank you.
I have been watching about as long as you. I got into antique firearms about 11yrs ago, and I can verify every time I saw it all, Gun Jesus puts us in our place. But I'm really happy about today's video, I was wanting a good video on matchlocks for a very long time but this is the first 1 I've seen
Check out his other channel. Independent Spirit.
Watch Ian long enough, you'll be able to pick up any gun from any era and shoot it.
Not just a "Forgotten Weapon" but an "I didn't know it existed Weapon" .... fascinating as always, thanks!
A matchlock revolving musket? Wow
I always like the early eastern stuff, they tried to revolutionise so quickly and came up with so much weird stuff
Just look at the japanese building what are pretty much grenade launchers not long after the Portugese sold them firearms.
In Germany such weapons, called ,Drehling' appeared in 1510s/1520s.
@@spyczech : The first eurpeans, reaching Japan had been the Portugiese, the Dutch came later. In the 200 years of japanese isolation, only few dutch traders lived on a small island in an japanese Harbor. I know, that the Portugiese sold firearms to Japan, but the Dutch? I don' t know.
@@moriskurth628 I heard that the Japanese were also the first to put front and rear sights on their muskets, at any rate, there was a time in the 1600s where there were more firearms in Japan than all of Europe combined.
@@moriskurth628 Grenade launchers were present in Europe too
I bet the extra long cylinder is to give you a place to hold it without putting your hand in danger.
I also suspect that a deeply seated ball would allow the pressure to drop a bit before the barrel/cylinder gap.
It would also give plenty of room for a bunch of wadding, a handful of loose shot, and more wadding to hold it in place.
I had the same thougt. It has always striked me as the obvious solution to the revolver rifle hand placement conundrum, sacrifice weight for saftey
It my also have provided some protection against flashover; the charge could be considerably recessed.
@@jamesgirardeau757 All in all the idea of a long cylinder with the ball seated around 6 inched down inside it seems to be the solution to all the problems of a revolving shoulder arm.
1. The highest part of the pressure curve occurs before the ball gets to the barrel/cylinder gap, reducing gas leakage.
2. The barrel/cylinder gap is ahead of the support hand so escaping gas cannot harm the shooter.
3. Flashover is much less likely because of the reduced leakage and because the charges are well back from the barrel/cylinder gap. Also should it occur the shooter is protected by their hand being behind the barrel/cylinder gap.
Why do they call him One Eye? He was trying to get a good cheek weld and sight picture.
I shoot a matchlock and I agree that eye protection is absolutely necessary. The priming powder creates a fireball the size of a grapefruit.
In case of jezails, you more or less put your head behind the barrel more than pushing you head foward like with other muskets / rifles. Source: Ian (Afghan Traditional Jezail
)
Have you ever brought up "a quartermaster's bugle?" I first saw them at Napoleon's tomb, and it took me a while to figure out what it was, but then I remembered that whenever we used non electric fuse for demolition, step one was cutting off the first foot of the fuse, then measuring three feet for a segment when cut off we would light it and time it to make sure it wasn't contaminated. Quartermasters would take these bugle devices, they basically look like twisted metal straws, pour in a portion of black powder, then light it to make sure it was worth buying or worth taking fom any source.
The gun is clearly bend in the revolving pin part .. that would explain why the sights don't align.
probably a bit of an optical illusion caused by the camera focus, though that said, given how old it is a being little bit out of alignment is probable
I saw that also, wonder if it is the rifle or the way the camera is set up?
Exactly the comment I was about to write, it does look bent, and a little banged up as well. But the sights look more like wishful thinking than something tried and tested, as well.
well its older than crap and also been in the worst conditions of use, being on a poor country i bet they used this untill very recent times
@@iomeliora9430 It's a smoothbore, so it's possible it was used with birdshot mostly (which might explain the large chamber as well). In that case, a front bead is really all you need....
They’ve got curved stocks. Curved. Stocks.
I used to question why clunky early firearms were so attractive then I learned that the motivation to avoid people with long, pointy things is real.
I believe they where still being used by “matchlock men” during the Indian Mutiny in the 1850’s.
There's a flintlock-ish equivalent to this from the 1600s in the Lisbon Museum that was made in Portuguese Goa.
Looks much higher quality built too.
Interesting.
It is nice to see our ancestors had a need for more than one shot also.
The desires for what you get from firearms hasn't changed much, just what our technology can provide. Ambitious designs from years ago can still provide innovations to be implemented in new guns.
Humans have always been looking for more DAKKA
The need for more dakka is unending.
Dakka then, Dakka now, Dakka forever
And the day after it was invented someone was complaining to the Bureau of Opium, Hashish, and Firelocks that this was *obviously* a weapon meant for high volumes of fire and should only be in the hands of the Maharaja's Guard.
Not to co-opt Ian's video for my own nefarious ends, but you can see some similar matchlock revolvers here; collections.royalarmouries.org/#/objects?search=matchlock+revolver&sort=relevance
The earliest known revolvers are actually end of the 16th century and have wheellock or snaphaunce locks.
Jonathan, thank you for that link.
Saturdays video better be this in a 2 gun match
Impressive! It's so innovative for its time. The spring keeping the cylinder lined up is really neat
I think the reason they did such a large chamber like that is so that you put your hand on the chamber when firing and that'll prevent you from getting powder burns from having your hand in front of the chamber or on the barrel in front of the chamber.
I don't get any recommendations on your videos any more, even though I'm a longtime subscriber! CZcams is making no difference between "weapon" channels. Yours' should really be called a history channel, too. The shooting/killing aspect is not why I watch videos about these guns. They are simply more interesting and visually appealing than the average gun-nerds tales; sometimes they have a history. Deeply rooted in your own appreciation for those pieces and backed by your incredible knowledge of shooty things past.
I'll try to remember coming here to support this channel like before. We need people like Ian on CZcams, and/or YT needs to give creators space for their unbiased opinions. Not on politics, because that would be a desaster, but on anything art-related. And these guns are historical pieces of art for the most part. Even though at one point they probably killed someone, too. You got to see these things separated and look at the aspects involved and interesting to yourself. Noone is a monster for appreciating the beauty of a well-made (historic) firearm, CZcams.
Well said, and may the Stormfather will smile upon you
"they only had muskets"
they had guns that shot more than once _BEFORE_ they had muskets.
and the barrel looks to be off kilter so the sights are a but useless there.
won't know until we're going to fire it, though I am thinking the cylinder section is irrelevant, due to the bend, and they may have considered the forty-inch barrel quite long enough to satisfy their sight picture needs.
This gun is open-minded: you line the bead up wherever feels good for you 😂
I thought if it was pointing in the right direction you had it made!
@@bryanlatimer-davies1222 of course! We are all winners here!
It probably opened a few minds at the business end
If you hit, the target, you're lining it up right. Just do whatever you did 3 more times.
it reminds me a lot of the Belgian wall gun with the length of barrel and size of the charge.
I think that's probable. I wouldn't want to carry it far.
Since proofing some of pre 1800 revolving guns in FW channel, more of questioning about the Mr. Colt claim that he inspired by ship's rudder wheel.
Amazing how far firearms have become
Ingenious design. Love your finds
Ian. Thanks much.
God bless all here.
What an interesting piece. I really like learning about these earlier repeating weapons.
tbh that thing is so big it almost looks like a jezail, but it isn't, but almost is.
The sound of the chambers rotating makes me smile. The sound is unique. I could see a percussion style rifle, bolt or lever action. Then I could imagine this in 45-70,.410 or 12 gauge shotgun in a current style.
Reminds me of the magazine tubes on the Tavor shotgun.
Thank you , Ian .
Such a cool gun. Thanks for another excellent video Ian!
That's beautiful.
I love the mechanical simplicity of it. It's amazing to think that some guy just invented that.
Great Job Ian !
I like the whole thing but I really like the firing mechanism. Thanks, Ian!
"I need to shoot fast and musket too slow."
*Super Power by 2020*
Tigers tend to motivate you like that.
When you want to find unique luxury weapons throughout history, India will seldom disappoint.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine you should see their swords next... they get pretty wild..
Maybe that rear sight is supposed to be an error bar. It's a smoothbore designed for varying qualities of powder, your point of impact is going to be somewhere between here... and here.
These truly archaic firearms are fascinating. Amazing that they are still around.
Me: Don't leave me alone with this.
Him: Why?
Me: 'Cause I got this liiiittle voice in the back of my head, & it's chanting, "range test, range test, range test, range test!".
Him: >____> ....'Kay.
I love the history of these old matchlock guns
I love early repeating firearms so much.
Wow, I love flint locks and match locks. That looks like it would be fun to shoot.
Love the old stuff. Thanx Ian. I marvel at how they welded parts together just by forge and anvil. How they worked with delicate parts without melting them or bending them out of shape is a mystery to me.
One would expect that with the open chambers, some space would be used for wadding to keep the the round and charge secure. The design overall seems to be made for hunting tigers from the back of an elephant.
I can’t wait for the range video for this one. 😄
The thing I noticed was the really aggressive carving on the butt stock underneath the cushion pad. I would say it was needed to help keep the barrel up on target, kind of hook into your body. The latter users probably just used a shooting stick and went for comfort.
I do love the old style guns.
More videos like this, please.
That thing is pretty fekkin cool. Thanks for bringing this to us, Ian.
Hi, Ian. I had no idea that matchlocks had a repeating design. Thanks for the enlightenment. Peace! Love! Charity!
That's awesome, I didn't know there was repeating match locks.
I'd like to see the tool setup the old timers used to make stuff like that
I like matchlocks especially of that design they seem like they could be made very accurate especially without the bump of a hammer coming down all of a sudden very interesting
The first time I see a repeating matchlock gun!
Thank you Mike Carrick 💜
The cylinders were so long to probably give a hand hold for the shooter. Otherwise, it would have the same problem as a revolving rifle.
I thought of that too
Another great video!
I wonder if the reason for the seemingly extra long cylinder is to keep the shooter's hand behind the cylinder gap.
I just love stuff like this
Very interesting video!
In your "types of gun actions" special videos, maybe for the sake of completeness (even if it's not your main focus like you stated) you could add one for "matchlocks" and one for "flintlocks"?
I found this "simple" video here very educative, hence the idea
Great video Ian. Do any of you know, if its possible that percussion cap musket lifts/recocks the hamner after you fire ? Because of the nipple which is directly connected to the chamber and the hammer strikes onto it. Just a thought
It's crazy just how long that gun is.
Looks like it worked pretty well
I'd say that the cylinder is so overly long to move the gap between its chambers and the barrel as far away from the shooter as possible. Guess it leaked quite a bit of powder gases.
No white gloves!
FIRED!
I like the weird warble noise on Chamber rotation at 56 secs-ish
actually, those should be 2 levers interacting with one another and the spring to "reset" it
Good eye and good mental visualization of the motion of the levers involved. However it has to be more than two. The match is offset to the right and moves downward, and the front of the 'trigger' lever also moves downward so there must either be a third or other mechanical complexity inside.
@@spacewater7 It works perfectly fine with 2 levers and one spring: the lever of the trigger is bent to push against the *same* side of the hammer as the match is on, the spring pushes from the chamber facing side. Depending on the geometry of the lever, you get the speed increase one could see in the video. The setup of the two can be seen in this set of sketches: imgur.com/a/NiuIr0Z - I set this up so that a 6.75° trigger pull results in 45° hammer drop.
@@trischas.2809 This could be plausible. Without having an idea of the tension keeping the match from dropping it's difficult to know. There should be enough room in the recesses in the wood to see, if the weapon were to hand.
This video was a surprise to me, but a pleasant one.
I wonder if the stock was designed to be for keeping the musket steady while turning the chambers. Not too familiar with Indian military tactics of the time period this arm comes from and of they would use any of the western military styles of the same period.
I think this is by far the neatest arm showcased on FWs. Thank you Ian for showing us this very unique weapon. Definitely brings a lot of fire power to a fight.
Range test when? I want to see the slow motion mag dump from this behemoth.
Very informative 👏
matchlocks go down on every trigger pull where flintlocks have to be cocked before every trigger pull.
in terms of a revolver mechanism, a matchlock revolver is closer to a double action modern revolver
and a flint lock repeater is closer to a single action revolver. so match revvies have one less required motion for that slight bit of extra speed.
Dang it now I have to build one
Yeah, do it!
Some Maharaja's howdah gun for elephant back tiger hunting.
My guess is the reason the cylinder is so long is so the shooter has a safer place to put their non firing hand for support. The cylinder gap gases on that thing are probably not too pleasant to hold anywhere beyond the cylinder.
Just a guess though.
With regards to the rear sights on the cylinder, I’m wondering if it’s one of those “well the one I saw looked like this” design choices that was just copied because it was there
I guess the four chambers were constructed so very long to prevent serial fire.
It even looks like every one of the champers consist of two parts. Which indicates that someone had this gun reconstructed by lengthening the chambers after a serial fire incident.
The gun looks slightly bent at where the front of the cylinder and the barrel meet. Maybe thats why the sight picture isn't clear on the gun
WOW ! 500 years old
This looks very similar to the Louis XIII revolving musket of the early 1600s. Ian had a video of a 1625 breechloading wheelock. I’ve seen a Chinese diagram of it from the 1630s, it even had a plug bayonet, which predates the earliest known plug bayonet. I think there were gun traders at that time taking the latest and most sophisticated guns to Asia as soon as they appeared.
this should be put in game
With the large chambers - you can hold the barrel /chamber without having your hand in front of the chambers. Kind of safe incase you have a sympathetic detonation of one or more chambers.
The word 'matchlock' didn't register with my mind until I looked at the video itself. What a contraption!
It doubles as a spear in the event of running out of ammo
'Sight picture', on a smooth-bore musket? That's next level optimism right there, kids. Until rifled bores became a thing, the main operational guideline was...Front Towards Enemy. What was old is new again... 😉
That aspect aside, the weapon shows careful thought, and craftsmanship; given the level of 'tech', and industry in India when this weapon was created, it's quite remarkable.
Perhaps the long cylinder is to help prevent chain fires? I'd imagine an ember would be hard pressed get all the way down there and still be hot.
What an unusual device. I wouldn't personally dare to load it, nevermind putting a smoldering string near it.
Looks like a steel dynamite holder.
The "rear sight" looks more like a cylinder/bore alignment guide. Seems like the "buck horn" is the actual sight & to make sure your chamber is indexed properly, you would align both "rear sights" on top of one another with the front post as the forward fixed indexing point. Your thoughts?
Tbf with the simple trigger mech, you'd want it like that for multi shot. To be able to control how far the match goes down towards the pan would make up for it burning between shots. In tbe spring power, youd either have to pull it longer each shot or shoot fast to be able to let off all 4 rounds.