I agree about the tone, mostly. I do have a few guitars that have AMAZING sounding capacitors in them. When I roll the tone back to about 8, I get a more harmonically rich tail to my notes. When the tone is set on 10, the capacitor is virtually out of the picture.
Great video, So many jazz guitar players today have that muddy sound, it sounds good alone but with a combo it just doesn't cut in the mix. Wes, Benson all had a nice full sound.
We rarely see such good jazz tone. Very clear, bright but soooft and delicate. Most of videos show very bad advices and get a very dark and muddy tone that would never ever fit a band tone and is so bassy that notes of chords aren't even earable. Your tone is very good.
Thanks for that great vid. Do you plan to make another one on what strings are the best according to having a great tone (gauge, flat or round etc. ) ?
This makes sense. Hearing Jim Hall's tone, although warm the clear cut dictation has always thrown me off. Now I have an idea that his tone knob (on guitar for his bridge pick up) was high but his amp setting was low (his bass and mid was higher than the average guitar setting.) Not to mention Hall had expressed he chooses his guitar by how much they vibrate with his playing.
Nice discussion on tone and guitar knobs. I struggle to get an acceptable jazz tone with a Twin Reverb, (old 1974) and my archtops. Having a slew of amps and guitars I still haven't gotten that sweet tone. Heritage 574, Samick 650, Gibson 335, Epiphone Joe Pass, and Wildcat and 339, Gretsch 5420. Amps range from Roland cube, Peavey tube and non tube, Fender Tonemaster Twin, Fender Deluxe reverb, and Twin Reverb. Lots of other solid state amps and Line 6 Pod xt, HD etc.
Maybe it is different for metal, but rolling the volume of the guitar down to at least half has done absolute wonders to rely on the amp. Tube amps need a significant volume level more than the guitar in my mind
I go in reverse. Power amp as high as possible. This provides headroom and body. Preamp to whatever point is loud yet still clean. Guitar volume at about 70%. Tone on the amp as flat as possible. Tone on the guitar (mine is carved archtop) varies depending on the room, not emphasizing high end but also not wanting mud. Just thick, clean clear sound that sits well in the mix.
I am a bass player and I also play guitar. I use the tone sometimes on 3 or 4 just to take off the metallic sound for a specific “vintage sound” from song to song, if needed. It also depends on the amp and soundman room etc. But I agree with you specially for recording leave the guitar open all the way. I would like to know if you use reverb or delay outdoors? or at any room or club. thanks!
Picked up a Washburn Montgomery this week from ebay. What I noticed on this attractive archtop is that the guitar was caving inward in the space between the two pickups. Which lowered the bridge, which now is at full raised height with a couple pieces of felt under it to kill the fret buzz the sinking top caused. Did this happen because of an incident, (Lacquer is crazed around the fret holes) or is it the fault of construction? I'm wondering if I should sneak a brace in the bridge area. Everything about the way a guitar like this works is putting a lot of stress on the body under the bridge. And even though the Washburn pickups may not be Seth Lovers, there's all kinds of archtop tone from this, compared to my custom solid body that I also used Thomastik flatwounds on. Ultimately, I think a hollow body is not necessary for great tone. The archtop seems too colored. Oh well, the Montgomery was only $299...
The lowest I go if I roll off is 8-7. The most I look 4 like freddy green is a sweat spot. If the pick ups r warm ok but if they r very crappy I up grade and see how they r. Also depending on the brand of ax 2 see if stock pick ups r good or worth not changing them. I usually don't go bellow 7 on tone nob or pot I just dial the amp 2 get the sweet spot. I use a D-v mark micro 50 Jazz. with a pair of its 2 x 8 jazz cab designed special 4 this head. The nobs r /L is (VLm)-B-M-T-R vb
Just applied your advice to my Ibanez AF71F and Cube 30 amp and my tone is sounding much better, more professional. Can You elaborate on your string choice? Great tutorial
Hey thank you, these are great tips. The bridge pick up on my guitar gives me a lot of clarity for solos and rhythm in other genres like rock or pop. The neck pickup is mostly for when I want a thick sound in those genres which rarely happens for lead. Cool to realize that pickup is where I can get a good jazz tone 90% of the time.
Excellent vid. Question for you; If you had a strat in your hands, what do you think can be done to get a tone as close to what you consider to be a jazz guitar sound, short of chucking it for a different guitar?
bananax182 it’s just going to be different....do attempt to make a solid body try to emulate a hollow body guitar. They are simply apples and bananas. If I was to play a strat certainly utilize the neck pickup and I would still have the tone all the way up. I would still stick to premise of adjusting the levels on the amp before taking some off the guitar
Brendan B25 I see this all the time...keep guitar tone on 10 and use the controls on amp to get the desired eq....with a solid body also be mindful of your volume Less is more
I set the tone to 0-4 80% of the time and use the bridge pickup trying to get a flat but strong Martino tone (which I know is heavily dependent on his 10/10 picking technique), oops. Guess I gotta reinvent my style
this info has a lot of merit. I am (was) a pedal steel guitar player who also loves jazz guitar. Most pedal steel guitars do not even have a tone control. If it does, there is a bypass switch. The tone control loads the pickup and creates mud when it is rolled off. Get your tone from the amp!
Agree about everything except volume. Especially high output pickups, like humbuckers, you should ALWAYS back off the volume knob. Otherwise, you will get a shrill, harsh sound. You can’t just “fix it at the amp”, because the output already has additional harmonics and overtones added aka distortion to the signal (due to the higher output physically driving the coils of the pickup into a clipped signal). Some rock players like a hotter signal because it overdrives your amp, but for jazz - clean is the name of the game. The best advice is really, for a gig - show up, plug in, pull volume to 0 and bring it up to an acceptable level for the room. It’s almost ALWAYS better to add volume from the amp after rolling off the volume on the guitar.
I have a fender blues jr. and a telecaster. I know putting the tone on 10 makes better tone, but I need to play in a house where I need to be quiet. When turning down volume it doesn’t sound as good. Any advice? Great video btw
I get a lot of questions about what my settings are when I play….I wish I could tell you what they are but setting change in every situation and room All the best
Honestly, I never liked the muffled sound of the tone rolled way back. As a drummer, I would make the analogy of stuffing towels in the drums to control volume, sustain, or overtones. To maximize the full range of character of the drum shell just get the right heads, and learn to play with dynamics and nuance to produce the sound you want.
All the pro's I've been lucky enough to study with actually dislike Metheny's wooly sound... a lot. I tend to agree--I actually prefer his acoustic sound. Everyone thinks that the key to a Jim Hall sound is to completely roll off... listen to Jim Hall in the 50s and 60s--then compare it to Pat Metheny's tone--they are quite different. It sounds really bad when you roll off the tone and try and blend with the rest of a band--or even just with a bass player. Record yourself playing with a band with your tone full on and then full off. No, I mean it--get a quality audio recorder (not your iPhone) and record yourself. I used to think the sound was all in rolling off the tone... until I started recording rehearsals and jam sessions. Huge ear opener, but what Brian is saying might fall on deaf ears.
pickinstone Metheny cuts through the mix quite well to my ears, except on a recording like Rejoicing where I agree his tone is in fact too dark. But listen to his solo on the live version of have you heard off the road to you and tell me Benson sounds fuller and clearer. I can hear each note ringing articulately with metheny, whereas Benson’s fast lines always sound more like just a percussive effect, and without sonic fullness and definition. But maybe that’s a matter of technique instead of sound. And “all the pros” disliking metheny’s sound is something I just don’t believe, I’m afraid. Sure, maybe the old guard of Tal-Farlow-sounding archtoppers disapprove, but with the greatest respect, most of them have a very poor tone (which is okay because maybe tone shouldn’t be the primary concern in jazz anyway).
Here's something. In this video you're talking about tone and demonstrating different settings. However, as with a lot of CZcams guitar videos, we the listening audience are hearing quite a bit of sound ambient sound through the microphone. Unless you're isolating the sound from the guitar, it's not a very accurate representation of the actual guitar sound in real life situations. I'm not trying to be critical of your video, I like the info, but it's hard for us to hear subtle nuances in tone when you hear all kinds of string noise and racket.
A stupid friend of mine bought a brand spanking new Ibanez AF75 ($499) turned the tone knobs all the way down to zero and purpose broke, cut the knobs so they stay like that permanently to get what he calls a good muddy jazz sound which to me sounded very bad! The poor guitar had no life in it! I will forward your post to him cause I would like to watch him cry! LoL!
Thanks so much for just taking the time to put this out there. I appreciate it.
Great help man! Thank you
I’ve been searching CZcams for tips on getting a jazz sound. You’re the best I’ve found. Can’t wait to try your advice.
Thank you for this video I have always struggled with this
Great video! Thanks for your expertise.
Very helpful! Thanks!
Thank you Brian!
Great video instruction. Sometimes we need to hear the basics.
Excellent advice.
I agree about the tone, mostly. I do have a few guitars that have AMAZING sounding capacitors in them. When I roll the tone back to about 8, I get a more harmonically rich tail to my notes. When the tone is set on 10, the capacitor is virtually out of the picture.
Great advice
Many thanks Brian, your suggestion worked a treat. Watching Golf at the moment but looking forward to an extended try with Tone and Volume on 10.
I liked this tutorial. I helped me get the warmth from my Zephyr Regent and my ibanez AK95DSV
I loved your "tone to 10" tip. Thank you!
Great video, So many jazz guitar players today have that muddy sound, it sounds good alone but with a combo it just doesn't cut in the mix. Wes, Benson all had a nice full sound.
Ahhh, a revelation! Thanks so much, brother, very well explained and you lifted the fog!
Thanks!
thank you for your help！
Thank you!
Great lesson in room dynamics.
Great vid.
Nice playing
We rarely see such good jazz tone. Very clear, bright but soooft and delicate.
Most of videos show very bad advices and get a very dark and muddy tone that would never ever fit a band tone and is so bassy that notes of chords aren't even earable.
Your tone is very good.
You are very talent guitarist this video is awesome
Thanks for that great vid. Do you plan to make another one on what strings are the best according to having a great tone (gauge, flat or round etc. ) ?
Thorough and very useful advice.
Thanks for your insight, from a guy that has none... until NOW !!!
This makes sense. Hearing Jim Hall's tone, although warm the clear cut dictation has always thrown me off. Now I have an idea that his tone knob (on guitar for his bridge pick up) was high but his amp setting was low (his bass and mid was higher than the average guitar setting.)
Not to mention Hall had expressed he chooses his guitar by how much they vibrate with his playing.
Good stuff
Vol and tone up on guitar roll back on amp....got it, many thanks
Nice discussion on tone and guitar knobs. I struggle to get an acceptable jazz tone with a Twin Reverb, (old 1974) and my archtops. Having a slew of amps and guitars I still haven't gotten that sweet tone. Heritage 574, Samick 650, Gibson 335, Epiphone Joe Pass, and Wildcat and 339, Gretsch 5420. Amps range from Roland cube, Peavey tube and non tube, Fender Tonemaster Twin, Fender Deluxe reverb, and Twin Reverb. Lots of other solid state amps and Line 6 Pod xt, HD etc.
Wow it's cool seeing you on CZcams. =•) 👍
I'm with Brian. On my guitar the both the volume and tone knobs are always set to fully opened, and I control the volume and tone from the amp. 🎸👍
Maybe it is different for metal, but rolling the volume of the guitar down to at least half has done absolute wonders to rely on the amp. Tube amps need a significant volume level more than the guitar in my mind
The tone is certainly better high up on a guitar just as presence certainly is on an amp though. That part, I generally agree with
I go in reverse. Power amp as high as possible. This provides headroom and body. Preamp to whatever point is loud yet still clean. Guitar volume at about 70%. Tone on the amp as flat as possible. Tone on the guitar (mine is carved archtop) varies depending on the room, not emphasizing high end but also not wanting mud. Just thick, clean clear sound that sits well in the mix.
I am a bass player and I also play guitar. I use the tone sometimes on 3 or 4 just to take off the metallic sound for a specific “vintage sound” from song to song, if needed. It also depends on the amp and soundman room etc. But I agree with you specially for recording leave the guitar open all the way. I would like to know if you use reverb or delay outdoors? or at any room or club. thanks!
My old music teacher
Picked up a Washburn Montgomery this week from ebay. What I noticed on this attractive archtop is that the guitar was caving inward in the space between the two pickups. Which lowered the bridge, which now is at full raised height with a couple pieces of felt under it to kill the fret buzz the sinking top caused. Did this happen because of an incident, (Lacquer is crazed around the fret holes) or is it the fault of construction? I'm wondering if I should sneak a brace in the bridge area. Everything about the way a guitar like this works is putting a lot of stress on the body under the bridge. And even though the Washburn pickups may not be Seth Lovers, there's all kinds of archtop tone from this, compared to my custom solid body that I also used Thomastik flatwounds on. Ultimately, I think a hollow body is not necessary for great tone. The archtop seems too colored. Oh well, the Montgomery was only $299...
The pick is also very importent! Which ones do you use? Dunlop jazz3 ?
Great video teacher! What do you think should be the best action height for a guitar? if you want to play jazz?
The lowest I go if I roll off is 8-7. The most I look 4 like freddy green is a sweat spot. If the pick ups r warm ok but if they r very crappy I up grade and see how they r. Also depending on the brand of ax 2 see if stock pick ups r good or worth not changing them. I usually don't go bellow 7 on tone nob or pot I just dial the amp 2 get the sweet spot. I use a D-v mark micro 50 Jazz. with a pair of its 2 x 8 jazz cab designed special 4 this head. The nobs r /L is (VLm)-B-M-T-R vb
oh captain my captain!
Just applied your advice to my Ibanez AF71F and Cube 30 amp and my tone is sounding much better, more professional. Can
You elaborate on your string choice? Great tutorial
Hey thank you, these are great tips. The bridge pick up on my guitar gives me a lot of clarity for solos and rhythm in other genres like rock or pop. The neck pickup is mostly for when I want a thick sound in those genres which rarely happens for lead. Cool to realize that pickup is where I can get a good jazz tone 90% of the time.
Excellent vid. Question for you; If you had a strat in your hands, what do you think can be done to get a tone as close to what you consider to be a jazz guitar sound, short of chucking it for a different guitar?
bananax182 it’s just going to be different....do attempt to make a solid body try to emulate a hollow body guitar. They are simply apples and bananas. If I was to play a strat certainly utilize the neck pickup and I would still have the tone all the way up. I would still stick to premise of adjusting the levels on the amp before taking some off the guitar
to be honest - i prefered the rolled off tone - but i will try your suggestion .
Try both in band, you'll see the dark tone is absolutely not usable if you wanna have some presence on stage.
What should I do if I’m playing with a small bass amp and a strat or a les Paul at my school concerts
Brendan B25 I see this all the time...keep guitar tone on 10 and use the controls on amp to get the desired eq....with a solid body also be mindful of your volume
Less is more
Cool vid man. What kinda amp are you using please ? I've just bought a 175 now seeking the amp to go with it. Cheers
Fender Twin...65 reissue
Black guitar is a gibson L4
what did you end up getting?
I set the tone to 0-4 80% of the time and use the bridge pickup trying to get a flat but strong Martino tone (which I know is heavily dependent on his 10/10 picking technique), oops. Guess I gotta reinvent my style
How do I get the Afterglow sound by Atilla Zoller?
this info has a lot of merit. I am (was) a pedal steel guitar player who also loves jazz guitar. Most pedal steel guitars do not even have a tone control. If it does, there is a bypass switch. The tone control loads the pickup and creates mud when it is rolled off. Get your tone from the amp!
u ax responds well with amp what amp settings can u recommend 2 achieve that tone ?
I wish I could give you specific settings but every room and musical setting is different
Agree about everything except volume. Especially high output pickups, like humbuckers, you should ALWAYS back off the volume knob. Otherwise, you will get a shrill, harsh sound. You can’t just “fix it at the amp”, because the output already has additional harmonics and overtones added aka distortion to the signal (due to the higher output physically driving the coils of the pickup into a clipped signal). Some rock players like a hotter signal because it overdrives your amp, but for jazz - clean is the name of the game. The best advice is really, for a gig - show up, plug in, pull volume to 0 and bring it up to an acceptable level for the room. It’s almost ALWAYS better to add volume from the amp after rolling off the volume on the guitar.
do u teach?
I have a fender blues jr. and a telecaster. I know putting the tone on 10 makes better tone, but I need to play in a house where I need to be quiet. When turning down volume it doesn’t sound as good. Any advice? Great video btw
I get a lot of questions about what my settings are when I play….I wish I could tell you what they are but setting change in every situation and room
All the best
Great Tip, Roll the Tone UP not Down and use the Amp....Fantastic
what guitar are you using in the video ?
Al Miqhaill Gibson L4
Much better separation with the tone on.
Its seemed to work for Joe Pass (rolling the tone off)???
Honestly, I never liked the muffled sound of the tone rolled way back. As a drummer, I would make the analogy of stuffing towels in the drums to control volume, sustain, or overtones. To maximize the full range of character of the drum shell just get the right heads, and learn to play with dynamics and nuance to produce the sound you want.
I like pat Methenys sound. Pat Metheny Says: "To get my sound on the 175 I use flatwound strings and the tone control turned almost completely off."
steinetakorgroovy interesting....that’s probably why I only have two of his cds in my collection
I say turn the tone up to 11. Seriously, thanks for the video.
Benson has the tone knob high and he sounds tinny and thin to my ears. Metheny rolls the tone all the way off and sounds rich and full to me.
F J F tinny my ass pal....
All the pro's I've been lucky enough to study with actually dislike Metheny's wooly sound... a lot. I tend to agree--I actually prefer his acoustic sound. Everyone thinks that the key to a Jim Hall sound is to completely roll off... listen to Jim Hall in the 50s and 60s--then compare it to Pat Metheny's tone--they are quite different. It sounds really bad when you roll off the tone and try and blend with the rest of a band--or even just with a bass player. Record yourself playing with a band with your tone full on and then full off. No, I mean it--get a quality audio recorder (not your iPhone) and record yourself. I used to think the sound was all in rolling off the tone... until I started recording rehearsals and jam sessions. Huge ear opener, but what Brian is saying might fall on deaf ears.
pickinstone Metheny cuts through the mix quite well to my ears, except on a recording like Rejoicing where I agree his tone is in fact too dark. But listen to his solo on the live version of have you heard off the road to you and tell me Benson sounds fuller and clearer. I can hear each note ringing articulately with metheny, whereas Benson’s fast lines always sound more like just a percussive effect, and without sonic fullness and definition. But maybe that’s a matter of technique instead of sound.
And “all the pros” disliking metheny’s sound is something I just don’t believe, I’m afraid. Sure, maybe the old guard of Tal-Farlow-sounding archtoppers disapprove, but with the greatest respect, most of them have a very poor tone (which is okay because maybe tone shouldn’t be the primary concern in jazz anyway).
Brian Betz the key words being “to my ears”. Pal.
Fred I think Metheny is a fine player. But to put him as the paragon figure of jazz guitar sound, I strongly disagree with you. Innovative yes.
Here's something. In this video you're talking about tone and demonstrating different settings. However, as with a lot of CZcams guitar videos, we the listening audience are hearing quite a bit of sound ambient sound through the microphone. Unless you're isolating the sound from the guitar, it's not a very accurate representation of the actual guitar sound in real life situations. I'm not trying to be critical of your video, I like the info, but it's hard for us to hear subtle nuances in tone when you hear all kinds of string noise and racket.
Then why have a tone control in the first place?
Let me know when you figure it out
A stupid friend of mine bought a brand spanking new Ibanez AF75 ($499) turned the tone knobs all the way down to zero and purpose broke, cut the knobs so they stay like that permanently to get what he calls a good muddy jazz sound which to me sounded very bad! The poor guitar had no life in it! I will forward your post to him cause I would like to watch him cry! LoL!