Sound System Tuning Gear Buyer’s Guide 2023 | Best Value For Money Setups
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
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Needing to put together a tuning rig? Start here.
You want to buy quality gear without paying too much. Getting quality measurement data is everything, but there’s a point where you run into diminishing returns. I want you to get an incredible amount of value for your money but not pay a penny more than you have to get amazing results.
Today I show you field tested gear I personally use as well as some variations on these products depending on your specific budget and IO needs.
We’ll cover:
- Should you spring for the $1,200 Earthworks mic or will the $50 Behringer work?
- How fancy of an audio interface do you need?
- What version of SMAART should you start with?
00:00 - Intro
00:57 - Audio Interfaces
04:41 - Measurement Mics
07:39 - Cabling
08:37 - SPL Calibrator
10:22 - Disto
12:17 - SMAART Software Edition Selection
16:00 - Three Setups to buy - Beginner, Freelancer, Fly Rack - Hudba
love your videos! thanks so much for putting your know-how out there. I've been a tech for more than 10 years now, and finally im learning how to properly tune a sound system. thanks a million for your work♥
Absolutely loving each one of your video Michael, Learned so much and barely even got to go in depth within your playlists, Thank you for your effort and dedication to upload those kinds of videos
You're very welcome!
I bought Mackie Onyx Producer 2.2 and Behringer ECM8000 Mic and that's my first invest to start learning
Fantastic info & great video!
Thank you so much!
for laser range finders I had good experiences with the products from Bosch (blue line), just as an alternative to the Leica, wich are kind of the Ferrari amongst laser rangefinders... I have been using my Bosch GLM80 (+/-200$) for 6Y+ works up to 80 meters, can measure inclines and has never let me down. For folks working outdoors a lot make sure you get one with a built in aiming camera, as I have often struggled to put the red dot on a black cabinet in the bright sun.
Thanks MC
My evo 8 and rta 420 just arrived from Rational last week. glad to see i bought the right stuff.
Also +1 for the Leica x4, all of the cheaper ones I've used break, or are inconsistent.
The X4 isn't a "fun" purchase, but has been totally worth it.
I like my Evo8, but if I was doing the rackmount flyrig, I would actually do the Octapro for it.
The big Evo does look cool though.
I am usually working with speakers on sticks and subs, mixing brass bands and a big band. So usually the situation is not too complex.
I started with minidsp umik-1 microphone which can be attached directly via USB-C to my Macbook and gets delivered with a individual calibrate-file. Therefore I do not use any interface. REW and OSM can read the calibration file. Does this make sense or is this complete crap what I am doing?
Great info on the Evo 8 phantom power limit with a USB-A to C cable. The RTA 420 has a low max SPL limit, I would not recommend it, and it's sold out at Rational. I use Behringer's ECM-8000. I like your laser measuring "tape." The cheap unit I bought at the local home store works, but it's a PITA to use. I decided on Smaart LE to save money. Smaart LE allows for unlimited measurement mics and engines, so it's a lot better than the old DI version. If I need to measure RT-60 times (impulse mode) I will use Room Eq Wizard (REW). By the way, I'm using my X32 Rack as my USB I/O device for multiple microphone setups, but it's clunky so I want to get an Evo 8. But now I need a new measurement computer with USB-C. The equipment journey never ends!
You're very welcome! And yes, it seems we're never able to get to the bottom of the gear list : )
How do you utilize Mics 3-4 during tuning? Where do you locate them and how do you balance their inputs?
I set the microphone gain on each of my microphones the same so that the data coming in is on the same playing field. And I can only set them equal because the sensitivity on each mic is very similar.
As far as placement goes, it's different for every rig and alignment, but much of the time I have my mics arranged in a line, evenly spaced, from front row to back row, directly on-axis with the speaker I'm measuring.
can you use REW only ?
Would you kindly do a video showing how to get the EVO8 loopback to work? I've had it since Rational started selling it and the loop feature basically doubles or triples the signal from the generator making for some very strange noises. I've not tried it yet on V9 SMAART.
Sure thing!
I’ve been binge watching your videos and find them very informative. Just like you did in this video, could you do a best PA setup for beginners. Or on a budget? I think it would be very helpful. I am doing the live sound at my towns summer festival. I was looking at what all gear I might need compared to my experience last year, but everything is quite pricey. It’s just hard to justify the hefty price tags if I’m only running sound a few times a year.
I went on Facebook marketplace and found a Harbinger setup for a great price. $1k for 2 12s, 2 15s, an 18inch sub, stands, cables and a Yamaha 16 channel analog mixer.
There was a lot I learned from last year, but one thing some of the band “managers” have been asking is what gear I have. I mentioned the speakers I had and his comment was, “oh, so you only have one sub”. To me, the sub seemed like it was enough for that venue. It’s outdoor with a truck bed that opens on the side. Probably 10-15ft deep and 30’ or so wide. The whole venue is maybe 200-300 people in that listening area at a given time. Maybe a 100x100ft parking lot. I was looking into adding another sub, but don’t want to buy into lower quality stuff, but also don’t want to pay upwards of $2k for a sub either. If I did it more frequently, I would be more open to spending that kind of money, but it’s hard to justify anything in the higher price ranges.
Sorry for the long rant, but I just thought it would be interesting to see what you would recommend for someone who is new/don’t do this often. Thanks in advance!
That's a great idea! Let me think on that.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio please make this a series! Sharing an ideal, ground up sound system setup in different price ranges, mixing in suggestions for permanent setups, mobile setups, and any other special cases. I personally would love to have a sort of ‘buying guide’ because looking for all the pieces of a system can be overwhelming with all the options
My venue has Neumann km184's and akg c414's, would these be usable for frequency balancing my system? Or is a high quality mic not neccesary a good measurement mic?
You technically can use the C414 if you're only comparing two different sources, but it will not give you the "absolute" frequency response of what you're measuring.
Investing in a good measurement mics means you have a flat and neutral starting point. A C414 "colors" the measurement by imparting its own change in frequency response to the measurement.
What do you think of the Audix TM1? Thinking of buying some and the ones you recommended are sold out.
Those are great mics! I've tuned many systems with them before I got my iSemCon mics. The only "flaws" in them is that they have a higher unit to unit variance in sensitivity and frequency response than the iSemCon mics and are more susceptible to EMI. Still great build quality, though.
Sir Michael i have a question when tuning a system should there be a flat response anywhere in the room?
The goal is for it sound the same in every seat. The tonality you choose is up to you. I use a target curve that has +15dB at 50Hz when compared to 1kHz, so definitely not flat. BUT, the same everywhere? Yes.
How to setup with Evo 8 with 3 RTA mic any Guide send me link or doc
Could you do a video about wireless measurement? Which transmitters / recievers can be used? ☺️
That's a great idea! You got it.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio oh nice. Excited for that. There's not much information and some information that refers to transmitters that aren't made anymore like the neutrik xirium pro. Would be great to learn what we need to look out for when buying a transmitter for the use with Smaart / OSM and what else we need to watch out for.
I need to do some more research, but Rational Acoustics has a great article on the Lectrosonics stuff - www.rationalacoustics.com/blogs/news/lectrosonics-wireless-measurement-buyers-guide
Do you no longer recommend Open Sound Meter for basic measurement? I know Smaart is “worth it” as in you get a lot for a fair price, but for a side-hustle is OSM packed enough?
I’d love to see a side by side measurement video with the Dayton/iSemcon/Audix to see how much difference were really talking about. Again from the perspective of a guy with a side hustle. Ha.
Thanks for the vids!
It Seems to me he is looking at getting a job at Rational..
Hey, Nathan. I think you can still get wonderful results out of Open Sound Meter. It's a fantastic piece of software with a wonderful developer. I simply feel like I can work faster and get the data I'm after faster with SMAART. They also have a very robust customer and applications support.
I don't have all of the mics you mentioned handy, but I've personally seen measurement data between all of those mics you mentioned and there's virtually no difference. +-1 or 2dB MAX.
I'd love to be able to teach SMAART classes one day. You're right I do speak very highly of them in this video, but that's because they've earned it. Michael, Hannah, Gavin, and Jamie have all been nothing but helpful to me in purchases, education, and application support.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio thanks Michael! That’s super helpful, much appreciated
@@tobin_nathan You got it! The data you would gather from both SMAART and OSM would be identical (they use the same DFT and FFT algorithms), but the workflow itself, how they store data, export formats, working with multiple mics, differs greatly.
Could you use a Behringer X-AIR 18 for an audio interface?
It would be a bit more complex from a routing complex, but you sure could!
Excellent info!!
What about the Behringer measurement mics? Are they worth it?
You're welcome! The Behringer's are "worth it" in the sense that the frequency response will be just as flat as any other mic, but they don't have a high SPL limit. They're also held together with hot glue on the inside. I've used them before and your'e able to get goo results, just know it may not hold up under extreme conditions or for the long haul.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio THANK YOU!!!😊
@@SalvadorEguiarteDG You got it.
Will the Evo 8 loop back work with open sound meter? And is the software required for the Evo to use with open sound meter?
Yes it will! And yes, you need to instal the EVO drivers.
@Michael Curtis well got the Evo 8 and open sound meter up and running last night. Used a turbosound flashline monitor. Set a finder delay, took a practice measurement.
I need to learn how to read the phase traces.
I just need a sub to practice alignment or I suppose I could daisy chain a 2nd monitor and practice alignment with two?
The other thing the Evo 8 doesn't have that master monitor knob like Focusrite Scarlett so I improvised between the 2 channels til both meters on OSM were both hitting orange 🍊 🍊 It's somewhat alien 👽 to me yet.
Is there any downside to using the virtual loopback?
Delay shouldn't really matter as long as you don't switch between the virtual and physical loopback so it's the same all the time?
The only downside I can think of would be that the audio interface's dac & adc response get added to the signal if you use the virtual loopback, but I think you can add a calibration for that?
I wondered this myself so I did a test today! Unfortunately I can’t post the photo of the results, but other than .54 ms of add’l latency there was nearly no difference when using the internal loopback as reference and an analog cable loop OUT>IN as the measurement source. Nearly flat phase and spectral response. The only interesting thing was the phase trace went gradually to +15° from 2k to 12k. Then dropped off relatively steeply to -40° or so from 16k to 22k. The 4 preamp’s traces were all very similar and nearly laid on top of each other. Frequency response was
Those are my exact findings as well. You're seeing the changes in the frequency response due to the anti-aliasing filter on the inputs of the preamps. This filters out frequencies above Nyquist so no aliasing occurs on the A to D. Way to go testing it yourself!
@@tobin_nathan interesting, thanks for trying it out
@@MichaelCurtisAudio in which cases would you still use an analogue loopback?
@@hrmny_ If I really care about the absolute phase response, not just the relative phase response between two sources. If I'm using four mics while tuning (which is what I usually do), I use the virtual loopback. If I'm using less than four I use the analog loopback. Or if I'm running any experiments, just so my data is clear of that phase change.
I didn't get to understand the training video On the smaart software edition selection... could you please redo that part only
SMAART LE - Good for most engineers, especially those starting out. Has unlimited TF and Spectrum Engines, some SPL functionality, but cannot do impulse responses.
SMAART RT - more access to under the hood features, still not impulse response mode
SMAART Suite - Full featured, more SPL functionality, has impulse response mode
Loop back cable brand ? or link send me
👍😎👍
evo 8 is a portable show runner ngl
i know its unpopular to say it , but Smaart is to f... expensive
I think using SMAART becomes a crutch for a lot of A1s, and they don't rely on their ears to give them factual information anymore. Then their shows sound like crap... and they have no idea what to do about it.
Yes, many A1's use the right tools (like SMAART) the wrong way and end up doing much more harm than good. It's not the tool's fault, but those failing to learn how to use it well.
@MichaelCurtisAudio , do you have a video that illustrates the right way vs the wrong way?