Snowboard Waist Width 101 // What is a functional board width?
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- čas přidán 17. 01. 2024
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Snowboard waist width might be one of the ore important things to get right when choosing a snowboard. It can be the difference between sore ankles and happy turning... But there are so many factors to determine the right board width when you really dive into it, that it can be confusing!
1cm to 2cm boot overhang on each side work for most people most of the time... but of course there are exceptions!
Lars is single handedly elevating snowboard knowledge in average joes like myself.
Truly appreciate the way you explain things w/o making it dry and giving simple ways to understand the nuances of snowboard tech.
I’ve learnt so much more from handful of your videos than the hundreds that I watched over the years.
If I ever make it out to fernie, beers on me 🤙
Btw, I’ve switched to posi/posi on my t finder and this thing came alive!! As you’ve said before, I was able to put more pressure on my front foot and really drive into turns!
Wow.... this is very nice of you! Thank you s much! I appreciate that comment!
Stoked to hear you're getting something out of my stuff!!
Example case(for hypothetical average rider)-
Foot length 27cm
Board waist 25.5cm
Board under foot 26.5cm
Boot 30.5cm
=2cm overhang each side at 0 deg
9 deg reduces overhang by 3-4 mm
=17mm overhang each side.
Carving guy may want wider board, rail guy narrower board.
Good analysis, thanks! Waiting for episode on how to surgically trim a few mm from toes and heal bone.
This is exactly the kind of information and thinking that I love. These are the details that I wonder about when things just don’t quite feel right or I notice different people with different preferences.
Thank you!!
I’ve been riding since ‘92, and have been dabbling with making my own boards for the past few years. I thought I knew a lot about snowboarding, but making boards made me realize I hardly know a thing!
So glad I found your channel, I’ve learned so much essential knowledge just in the few videos I’ve watched so far.
This is the best info of this kind on YT. Speculation or not, it's great to hear people talking about it. Even if you are buying a board from a shop and not online, it's good to go armed with some ideas and hard numbers.
Good thing about this video: without saying it, it demonstrates that for big feet (size 13 and up) there aren't many wide enough snowboards on the market.
You’re not wrong…. It has gotten better, but now everything that’s wide enough is too short…. Check out Stranda Pipeliner 2.0. 187 with a 275 waist 🔥🔥🔥
Hi, those measurement examples are gold! Thank you!
Awesome! Thanks! Glad it’s helpful. 🙏
That was extremely insightful, thank you.
Excellent explanations as always!
Thank you!
As always an awesome video. I like your approach. Learning so much. Thank you!
Thank you so much!!
This was an awesome video, so much good information in here. I also was listening to a podcast where Mikey Franco was saying the ideal board width is 1cm overhang on toe and heel.
Mikey is such a great guy!! Can you send me the link to that podcast?! That would be amazing! Thank you!!
Very informative, spectacular content. Thanks a lot for this.
Thank you so much!! 🙏
I've gone down the rabbit hole myself in calculating all of these variables. I've been looking at where I actually apply pressure with the heel and balls of my feet, and centering the bindings based off that measurement vs simply centering the boot.
It's an art and a science.
You know it!! That would put me on an insanely wide board, as I have long toes and would have to slide the binding forward by quite a bit to have pressure points in equal distance to the edge... It is indeed a rabbit hole!! :-)
This whole thing is interesting, but I'm not really sure centering your binding like that is the answer. The lever arms are asymmetrical anyways and it is much easier to put pressure on your toe edge even with centered boots (as Lars explained in his boot centering episode).
Thanks so much, I do all this crazy stuff myself, but your rules of thumb are great and simplify everything. Please keep providing this "nerdy" episodes.
Thank you so much!!!
Awesome breakdown. Thanks so much.
Much appreciated!! Thanks!
Simply great video
Explained in a way that is easy to understand and still very detailed so anyone can use it as reference and adjust some parts if needed based on exact board, shoe and so on
Nice to see videos like this, kudos to you
Thank you so much!! 🙏🙏 This is exactly how I wanted this video to be utilized.
Your math checks out when measuring my setup, bravo.
Ha! Epic! 😊🙌🙏
Great subject, looking forward to your detailed advice 👍
You'll see... it's a lot of assumptions and variables.... Such a difficult topic to find any 'general rules'. Interesting, though, I think! 🙂Thanks for the early interest and comment!!
You gave me some great advice already,but I’m sure others will appreciate it and a video demonstration adds a lot. In recent years I’ve looked into the subject after realising my kit choices and boot size weren’t helping, and experimented with angles and home made riser plates out of poly chopping boards to good effect, then a wider board with bindings that have a thicker base, and even bought a cheap angle meter to measure, but recently bought the widest carve-biased board (Korua TF) I could find - just before your Stranda Cheater vid! 😆.
This is all great information and exactly what I have found myself. I have size 8 us (26 cm) feet and most boards at the length I like get fairly wide and are a workout in chop. Boards with a good amount of taper fix this for me. I usually only focus width at back inserts and every company should include this in specs.
I have size 7.5 feet. This topic is very important to me. Thanks!
Love your channel cause i am an OCD snowboarder.
Love it!! :-) Thanks!!
Great job. Very informative. I wish manufacturers would just stop giving waist width and start giving widths at reference. Would seem much more useful.
Nidecker do. And the nice people at Korua went and measured the Cafe Racer and TF underfoot widths for me.
I agree it would be so much easier just to list it.
YES. also does that, but again YES. is Nidecker somehow.@@jerryb63
Jones do that too
Nidecker, Jones and Yes all do. Same owner, I believe
@@willakerlund4191The Nidecker Group owns Nidecker, Yes, Jones, Now (Bindings) and Flow. Seem funny to me, I always thought Nidecker is some cheap brand from eastern europe or asia, since mostly noobs ride with that and their stuff is often heavily discounted.
Nice job on a complex topic, Lars
Thank you so much!!
Hey Lars, that is great info 👍 Should be in the school books ;D
I am shocked at how this channel has so few subscribers.I just started learning to snowboard,and went looking for all sorts of educational videos.Quite frankly,CZcamsrs with most subscribers (on snowboarding topic) are much less informative,and what I feel is that some of them are less passionate about giving actual knowledge unlike this channel.All the best luck to you.We all want to see you grow 🎉🎉🎉
Thank you so much! Share the love, and it'll grow faster ;-) I only started in November 2023, that's three months. Not too bad, I think! 🙂
super. really great !!!
Thank you 🙏!!
Thanks lars
I would take this snowboarding semester course
Hahaha.... :-)
measured my differences, and the difference on the right side is 1-2mm and on the left side 0-1mm, so i'd say that's quite good on my stance, which is 21 and 6.
overhang is 1.4 to 1.6 cm
Great advice. My second board I bought on special was a Dump Truck 163, 258 waist. I've never ridden it because I just know it's too narrow for my size 12s. Guy in shop said I'd be fine - took the sale, but it's about 25-30mm over hang. Just tried turning back foot forward, but that feels so wack, I'm normally 25 front negative 15 back duck. If I didn't/couldn't carve I might get away with it, but it's an aggressive all mountain and if I take it I'll want to lay it down.
Blows my mind how any shop guy would say that the width is fine...... You need a 270mm waist at the very minimum. Sorry to hear that! It's simply the wrong board. Another example for why I started this channel... 😞
Nice vid! With Adidas you’d add only get 18 mm extra to your mondo, with Burton around 22 mm. It’s also worth to mention that custom insoles supporting the natural arch of the feet really help to downsize/get a performance fit more comfortable.
Yup! Talking about all of this in my boot episodes! Cheers!!
I like and comment on the video before watching it. :)
P.S. That Makrill looks sooo nice!
Hahaha, love it!! 😊🙏
That Makrill also rides so well… It’s so much more board than just a little 153 powder fish!!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I noticed that on the Stranda site the board is only offered as 152 and I saw it one a different site as a 153 is that correct? Or is that just depending on the year of production? I really like the Makrill look and the specs on the Stranda site for the 152 seem like the right fit for me, wheres the 153 stats seems to be for someone a tad bid heavier then I am.
@@nemaemanema3940 It's a 153. No idea what's up there about a 152... Sorry about the confusion! It won't matter much that 1cm...
Hi Lars, I was wondering what your opinion was on using risers for snowboards, allows you to down-size for a much narrower board, saves weight, and still allows for the lever mechanic you talk about early in the video. What do you feel are some downsides in using risers?
I am also curious about our opinion on using heel risers inside your snowboard boots. To me it feels a lot more comfortable because it allows the ankles to have more room for dorsiflexion which allows me to bend my knees further than I could otherwise, the ankles can only bend so much upwards before either the heels start to lift or toeside. I can forsee it also reducing ankle injuries in choppy terrain as well because there is room to bend here.
Good points on the use of risers. I've never tried that.
Yes, risers can work. I'm doing a video on that soon. They definitely cause a very different feel that is not very nice for freestyle stuff. But for carving they can be great!
Hey man great video! I love your channel and all the in depth info you give, I appreciate all the work that goes into these videos and please keep it up! Quick question, if I’m following you right then with a boot of about 300mm, at a binding angle of 15 degrees for both (15 positive on front 15 negative back) my ideal waist width would be around 275? Does that sound right? I’m not trying to be exact, just trying to get an idea of my ideal width because I’ve been trying to figure out for a while what fits my size 13 US boots!
....you mean foot of about 300mm???
Thanks for the kind words!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel a boot itself of 300mm in length from the end at the heel to the farthest end of the boot near the big toe. I’m away and I don’t have my boots nearby to measure so that’s an estimate for now, but wanted to make sure my math is right. I was planning to measure and be exact when I can.
@@cameroncovill6324 If you have size 13 feet, your boot is at least 335mm long - likely longer. I don't understand your 300mm boot length. I'm a US 10 in a short boot, and the boot is still 310mm........ So your 300 make no sense... How long is your foot in mm or cm?
Gotcha, my apologies I had looked it up because I didnt have my boots to measure and some online source I found said a size 13 is 300mm in length generally. So I’ll have to measure when I get a chance and get back to you. Just wanted to say thank you for reading my comments and getting back to me, even though I have not provided you with accurate information for my question lol
@@cameroncovill6324 yes, the 300mm are talking about the foot length at size 13. Your boot is likely about 330mm long. Possibly more.
I Love this in depth materials that you make. It is rare in YT snowboard content. May I ask what size is this book and what is the thickness of the liner that you use?
Thanks!! 🙏😊 Boot is US 10 / mondo 28. Liner is mondo 28 low volume tongue liner in dual density. Intuition OG.
Thank you!@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel
Very helpful video. Do you have any recommendation on the minimum overhang on both heel and toe side for all mountain/freeride？
Thanks. That would be what the video is about. Functional waist width. 1.5 cm on each side. Maybe 2, if you don’t carve much with high ish board angles.
Smashed it!
Thank you!!!🙏
Another great video Lars! Would be interested in how foot bed height affects this. Is there a height you never go over, or even under? The higher the footbed the more leverage you have no?
Correct! I'd always appreciate a higher footbed, but I feel like companies are all fairly similar with a few minor exceptions.
@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I've just swapped from Cartel EST's to Unions Forces. Alot higher footbed so I'm excited to try them out. The EST system just seems wrong, too much hard plastic denting my topsheet!
This is the first time I have heard anyone talking about shell fit for soft boots. I would run away screaming if someone tried to fit me with ski boots without doing a shell fit.
Yup! And you should! :-)
I bet you anything, you'll find 1 out of every 20 board shops that does that. You can consider yourself lucky to get your feet measured... Mostly they ask for your sneaker size and then dish out some boots. This is my personal experience, and I might be wrong on the global scale.
Random question, just because I notice the logos on your kits... how's Haglöfs compare to Arc'teryx? My general sense is Arc'teryx and Norrøna are in a class of their own for North American-accessible outerwear, even compared to other brands licensed for Goretex Pro. But heard rumblings Haglöfs is in a very similar tier.
Just speaking compared Arc'teryx versus say Burton [ak] or high-end Patagonia, I'm struck by how much more dialed in the pattern is and how much tighter the seam allowances are. Although that's pre-Anta acquisition Arc'teryx, not sure these days how things are holding up.
Haglöfs is right up there with the two! Fantastic quality. Depends on the fit of course whether it’s good for you.
Always surprises me manufacturers quote waist, tip and tail width and its very rare they ever provide board width at the insert area
Thanks for the informative video. I’ve been on the hunt for a better performing setup. I had a hunch that possibly I was in too big of a boot. I have ride fuse US11 / mondo29. My foot actually measures 28cm. Good boot but the fit has always been a little off. The wrap liner is a little too large for my slim lower leg. I try not to overtighten, but I still get a little heel lift. I may look into sizing down 1/2. I also took some board and overhang measurements.
Board: Lib tech BRD 162w, 265 waist width. Front foot 21 degrees angle with 17mm over on the toes and 15mm on the heel. Back foot angle +3 with 25mm over on both toes and heel. Stance width just under 22in or 56cm. Figure the extra overhang on back foot is due to the 15mm taper of this board along with a mellow binding angle. Any suggestions, feedback?
Yeah, it's due to the taper. You could go to a wider board, for sure. But it's pretty good - depending on your ability level! Boot questions are difficult to answer online.
As usual your information is very insightful could you also give the measurements in inches? Question: what size and length board should I have with a size 12 boot 30.O eur size for a all round riding deck? We also always talk about all the variables something many riders don't really understand thanks!
Thanks for the comment!! It's really easy these days to convert to inches (google), and the maths - if you want maths - is all laid out in the video. I hope you can figure this out yourself with my suggestions here.
Board length has nothing to do with boot size, so unfortunately I can't recommend anything.
Good luck my friend!!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel The reason I asked was because I also have the Apmlid morning glory which is volume shift but a tapered tail which creates more of an offset for the back foot. Like you I’m looking for a more similar side cut though the board without drag!
I think I found my functional width limit with the Korua TF 60. At 278 waist it was quite a lot to handle in the lumps, added to by my hacked, on the slope tip and tail detuning with a rock. 😂
Very useful information. A friend of mine who is an advanced level rider & can really achieve a high board angle when carving has large feet & usually wear a boot size uk 12. Boot drag has always been an issue for him as he doesn’t like to run a specifically ‘wide’ version of his chosen board (primary board CustomX 162) - runs a fairly high positive front angle & significant negative rear angle which helps minimise drag as you have said - though he still struggles. His method to overcome has been to develop his own binding baseplate risers made from around 1.2cm thick rubber floor tiles to increase the distance between boot & snow when on edge- which really seems to work him without too much compromise on board feel. Have you any experience of this type solution ? I would be interested to know your thoughts. There doesn’t seem to be any products on the market - so either it’s completely nonsense, or my friend needs to get his patent applied for quickly & lead the charge 😂
Hahahaha, funny! You're 20 years too late! :-)
The product was called riser plates... Palmer Plates.... Burton had a model, too. It was considered 'silly' when freestyle took over. Now you can't find this anywhere anymore - very difficult! It's a solution, for sure. But it changes how the board feel overall. The higher platform is less ideal for park stuff... Great for carving, though! What is likely to mess with your friend's performance is the substantially negative backfoot angle. Watch my videos (1/2/3) on stances (duck vs. posi). Cheers!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Haha - my mates so far behind the curve he's in front of it! 🤣
Great job as ever Lars. 🏂👍
Thank you!!🙏😊
In Variable snow conditions I need more width to carve and not boot out. I don't ever really experience the board creating to much force on my ankles. As My edges are high other than jumps, pow and pre season. I Really enjoy wide Volume shifted board in Moguls.
I’d love to see you carve the Biru! I know that’s not its primary use but I think it would be awesome to see you on it!
Follow Malcolm Moore’s channel. We just did an episode together, both on the Biru. Gonna drop soon, I guess.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-ChannelThat sounds sick! I’ll keep an eye out for it!
@@mitche2176 Biru holds an edge like no other short fat all mountain board I’ve ever tried. Really good. Filled with typical Stranda DNA.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel That’s what I like to hear! Mine arrives on Saturday. After chatting with Mats a bit about my riding style he recommended the Biru to me.
Hey lars, I am in the unfortunate situation of having large feet (My snowboard boots were fitted to size US 14). I am in the process of relearning how to snowbard properly after doing it very casually over the last 10 years. Essentially i was just counter rotateting constantly / doing completly skidded turns down the mountain.
I got new gear last year and even got the widest board i could manage to find (170UW board with a 285mm Waist width) but after watching this video and doing the measurement you did I have about 30-32mm overhang on both my toe and heel edge.
The issue I am running into while learning to carve / snowboard again is there are times where I feel like I may be booting out while doing carved turns ( on steep runs). I have a feeling a large part of this is due to me not being balanced properly over my edge so i am over enngadging my edge to keep grip. I also know that I pick up to much speed when during my carves which require me to carve more agrressively to keep my edge.
I guess what i'm trying to figure out if riding on my current setup is viable at all if my goal is to have a more carving focused riding style. I am fine with my "carving potential" being capped for the time being as I work on teqniue and then in a few seasons modifyng my gear with shorter boots and shorter binding to reduce my overhang.
Like if you had this ammount of overhang would you be able to make some kind nice carving work even if you couldn't push it close to what you normaly do. I understand how much I have to learn / practice / improve but i just hate the idea of putting work into it if there is really nothing i can do with this much overhang
Also thank you for making this channel, as someone who works in a technical field. Ihe way you describe snowboarding concepts coming from a deep fundenmental understanding of the entire system has been such a breath of fresh air. I swear i have learneu more watching 2 hour of your videos than I have in the previous 50 hours before.
Thanks for the kind words!!
I hate to say it, but 285mm for your feet is simply not enough....
There's no board on any shelf that will work for you and the idea of carving. It's a viscous cycle for you!! You aren't able yet to carve crazy high board angles, but your gear also doesn't allow for you to learn it.... There's "a little too narrow" and there is "too narrow". Your board is simply too narrow! I'd say a 310mm waist would be more appropriate, and that's just a guess. The quickest company to make you a board at a reasonable price is Donek. They offer good advice, too. Email Sean Martin at Donek, he'll be able to sort you out. At 20mm overhang on each side I can still just about carve reasonably well while being quite carful. That would be "a little too narrow". You're telling me 30-32mm on each side.... That's not a good start! Sorry! :-(
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Thanks for the response!
I was curious if there was anything i could maybe do with my current board to make it work. I just recently watched Jame's video on the snowboard interface and remebered him mentioning how much extra width some bindings can add to your overhang.
So i was curious and measured my bindings total width with the boots and then just the boots on there own and the bindings add 25mm in total to the overall width! (these are burton stepons which are a luxury I don't think I can afford in retrospect lol)
I think i am going to see if i can rent some bindings that are lower profile and don't add anything to the overhang. If i could get that 25mm back that would put me at roughly 18mm overhang on each side which seems way wary more managable, and that should tied me over for a while till my riding gets alot better and i can invest in a more specialized / custom board.
If your curious my measurements were 36.5cm for boots in bindings, and then 34cm even for just the boots
@@Fyyro You could use riser plates to get higher on the board!
How does the makrill ride on groomers vs the shorty 64W?
and...great channel!!
Well..... something like 25cm less effective edge are noticeable.
It carves extremely well with that very stiff tail. I don't know where all the grip comes from, but it's there. I do simply feel like I'm on a short board, however. You really can't compare the two boards. Makrill s more surfy, Japanese, back foot carving. Shorty is a freeride board at heart. Fast, larger turns, wild amounts of edge grip.
Thank you for the reply! I want something different from the Cheater board and wondering if the shorty is a 'doitall' cheater...like just another 'lesser' cheater to carve. Thank you again for the reply and your time! I will go with the makrill...though the 'back foot' carving is not how I ride...@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel
i guess if you calculate average (waist width + tail width)/2 : it should be quite the backfoot width. Fortunatly, now some brands give the underfoot width.
Very difficult to anticipate the foot drag because it doesn't depend only from the width/boot size, : depending boot sole shape, heel cup shape, heigth of the sole from the snow....Best is to try and adjust.
With the time and many trials, i know that i need at list a 27,5cm waist width if the radius is about 9/10m. And then adjusting in width by centering with the disk.
Whatever, your advices and observations are always so clever and smart.
Agreed!! Lots of 'just trying'. My goal in this case is a ball park good guess to save people money when buying a new board... But yeah, I completely get your point!
Where do you find boards that wide?
@@marksanchez0918 custom made... Donek or Coiler...
curious how you obtained 27.5 waist? how deep are you carves, and do you have a very large boot? I found myself a half size smaller than normal boot (size 11.5 from 12, boot is 32.4 cm) and i'm calculating that i'd need a width underfoot of like 28/29cm and a waist width of around 26cm.. maybe i did my maths wrong, but i'd love to know.
@@marksanchez0918 Your underfoot calculation is roughly correct. Rather 29 than 28.
If UF is 29, waist will be around 28.
Hi man, great content, finally I have some more reference, thanks.
I have a question,
I currently have a Salomon HPS with about 270mm under the foot and with a 10.5 boot I have a protrusion of 25mm which is almost too much to be able to do some turns properly.
I would like to replace it with a korua Transition finder and I'm undecided between the 157 and the 160, I weigh 73kg and everyone recommends the 157, I know that under the foot it measures 280mm
so I would have a protrusion of about 20mm from the edge.
With the 160 I would reduce the overhang to 15mm from the edge, but it is really very wide at 278mm in the center and 290mm under the foot.
In your opinion, which choice is the most appropriate, I would really like to perform a good carving, but it is also true that it is also a very versatile all-rounder board, so I don't know if it makes sense to exaggerate so much.
A thousand thanks
sorry for the very long message.
First of all, 32cm boot for a size 10.5 is a pretty big footprint! Bummer!
Then, Transition Finder 160 with a 278 waist... hmmmmm.... 290 under foot sounds like more than it can possibly be. The board has 18mm taper and an 8.2m radius... I don't think it grows in width by 12mm from waist to under foot. But I might be wrong!!
Anyhow, I think in your case I'd go with the 160. I don't know your riding level, so that's difficult!! If you're not a strong rider maybe the 157 is enough... Too many variables for a stranger to tell you what's best!! Sorry man....
thanks so much for the advice,
I looked at a review where the 157 measures 280mm under the foot, but I confused with the front one, the rear one measures 276mm, considering that the TF160 has 10mm more central width, I would say that at the rear foot it could be around 286mm
Yes, unfortunately the boot is not very compact, but I have two pairs of boots of practically the same size and external dimensions.
in terms of riding I do very well and I have good handling both front and back, I'm not very good at tricks but I ride well in all conditions
Aah!! 286 is literally what I assumed… it all sounds like go for the 160. That’s my opinion. Good luck. They both will be fine. The bigger one gives you the higher limit for carving without being super crazy wide. Depends on boot fit, too. It’s the foot turning the board, not the boot.
Hi Lars, sorry to bother you.
returning to this discussion.
I managed to get a new boot by going down half a size as I thought I would be able to do.
now I have cut 10 with a fairly small size of 31cm, do you think it is possible to opt for the finder 57 transition? Thinking about it, it's a fairly versatile board and I'm afraid that the TF60 is certainly better for going deeper with carving but might limit me in all mountain use. It's a board I would ride all day in almost any terrain condition.
A thousand thanks.
@@oscarbonini97 Your reasoning seems solid. They'd both be fine. Don't overthink this. The 57 is probably great.
I've tried mounting the
Now bindings for the first time and there was way too much toe drag.
So i tried the second method, where the slots are perpendicular to the board length.
It looks much more even. But now one heel hangs over more than the other, even though both bindings are in the equivalent holes. (I think)
I don't understand. My board is a mountain twin, so it's not as if one end has some weird taper.
The holes in the disc are not centred. Pay close attention to the orientation of the disc.
Hi!
I'm 1,72cm (usually 20' to 21' inch stance width) and I weight 65kg which, generally, puts in a 153 board (most of them with 25cm of waist width).
My feet are 27,5cm and going with your initial rule, most boards are 2 to 2,5 cm shorter than my feet at waist width.
Would you recommend me going mostly for volume shifted boards to "fix" this?
And if so what board would be a good pick for all-mountain freeriding (there aren't many options I'd say) for me?
Don’t be afraid of simply riding a slightly longer board. The idea that rider weight is everything is an overly simplified concept. I’m in a similar boat and have never owned a snowboard where I fall into the weight range. I’m 1,76m with size 28 feet/US10.5 boots and 63kg. I prioritize waist width and before short fats I used to ride 160+ boards only. Now my quiver goes from 153 to 200….
Great, thanks for the reply!@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel
To make an even more accurate analysis, what is between the boot and the board should also be taken into consideration, the footbed area of the bindings. With same foot length and board width, different results are produced if the footbed is shorter or longer (actually harder or softer to be picky) because it imparts force to more external or internal points of the board so the leverage power changes. Taking the very practical example you give at the beginning of the video, it would be correct to put an additional piece of wood between the 2.
What do you think about this ? I know that your was just a practical example to make everyone understand the concept. Mine is just an in-depth, more realistic additional reasoning
You're right. For a video this is way too complicated! My tips are supposed to put people into a good place. If their binding produces slightly different results, then that is something they will learn from that. I can't possibly take binding specifications into account, and to be honest, I wouldn't want to. I want to inspire people to then take it and do their own experiments. There are so many little subjective things, which are fun to find out. I ride a NOW binding that is made from three different bindings............. and there won't be a video about that, hahahaha ;-)
Thanks for the comment. It will make people think about it.
What in case you cannot make toe and heel overhang even? is it better to have more overhang on toes or heels?
In consequential freeride terrain more toe overhang is better. It is easier to self arrest after booting out on your toe edge in an icy couloire than booting out on your heel edge and just slide on your butt into the abyss…. Otherwise I would prefer riding with more heel overhang, because mostly you don’t achieve the same edge angles on your heels that you do in your toes.
Great video! ...but what about hight when in binding? Your boot is not flat on the snowboard, it's elevated differently depending on binding cushioning etc.
Great point!! Very difficult to factor in. The better way to approach the whole topic would be to measure edge angle until boot out, but I haven’t found a good way to do this yet. Donek have a template for this to download, I think.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel maybe it doesn't matter though? If your 1cm example works for you, and you carve on extreme angels... I think that would mean most riders should be fine. A mm here or there will not matter. The most important important aspect is your wood block example, we all need a few mm heel and toe overhang while barefoot in our riding stance.
@@TT-lg7ip I thought that was exactly what I was saying in the video, no?! Thanks for the comment. I agree.
I would love to know how you set your binding angles if you rotate the insert disk to slide back and forth on the board (instead of side to side) to get equal overhang?
Im switching to union atlas bindings for my all mountain freestyle board and the closest i can get to center, on the middle heel cup setting (1), is 11/16” toe over hang and 1 1/8” heel overhang w/ a 2” boot clearance. Waist width is 26.1 cm, size 11.5 boot. Ive been carving pretty hard with the cartel x’s (same board) but with 13/16” toe/ 1 1/4” heel overhang so i know its doable, but would love to know what even overhang feels like!
Yes, I run the disk tie to heel rather than tip to tail. Centred is pretty nice….
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Guess I didnt ask the question the right way. I gotcha, but how do you set the correct binding angle if the 3 degree angle increments are rotated due to you switching the orientation to account for heel and toe drag?
@@STAyTHIrstyMyFREind If you wanted to be 1000% accurate (which I don't think is necessary) you'd set your angles and the play with the fore aft movement of the disc with the boot in the binding until you have even overhang, I guess. I'm still not sure whether I understand you. It might also not be possible to centre the boot perfectly. I'm basically suggesting to aim for a centred boot (not centred binding, btw!) as best as one can.
Im a mondo 27.2 but managed to fit into 8.5 K2 ortons. My daily ride is a K2 Excavator 154 with a 264mm ww andnits never felt overly wide or sluggish to me. I really want to try the K2 Special Effects, but the ww is 284mm and it leaves me with no overhang, the boot essentially lines up with the edge. Am i crazy to try riding this thing? Id consider myself an advanced carver and find myself booting out in softer snow on my other boards. Cheers!
Yeah, that’s pushing it. It’ll work on perfect corduroy. But it’s more than you need.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel ya, took it out today for some soft early morning corduroy. Very slow edge transition but surprisingly stable once on edge. Once things softened up it became a really chore. Back to my excavator for the rest of the morning.
Hi, in one of your video’s you mentioned a pad underneath you binding to lift the whole binding and avoid heel and toe drag. Can you tell me which pads you use? Thnx! Greetings, Steven.
On some boards for rare occasions I use pads from 'Padride'. They do the job, but there's room for improvement. They're definitely the thickest I've ever seen and give lots of clearance. I'll be uploading a review on those this fall. If you get in touch with them, tell them you've found the product through me. It'll help me next season... Thank you very much!
I will. Thanks!!!
What are your first thoughts about the improvements, can you share these please?
Hey bro! Big fan of yours. I am currently encountering trouble when getting a powder board like yours. It would be great to have your input. I’ve been looking to get a gentemstick, but I see that there is quite a variety of length as well as shapes. There are quite a few model of fish tail boards and swallowtail boards. They also released swallowtail boards that are crazy long in length and tail which I don’t think normal all mountain board length logic applies. Could you help out on how to pick one? I’m 175cm 60kg, I have a jones all mountain directional project x board that rides decent in light pow. So my choice is really deep pow specific and I hope it can be maneuvered within the trees as well.
Looking forward to hear back!
Hi! Thanks for checking in. Do you wanna ride any groomers at all?? If so, what's your boot size? If you're basically looking for a board for cat skiing, aka riding pristine, untouched pow, waist width being too much is not an issue. Then you could go quite wide with lots of taper but short for great maneuverability. If you consider anything not so pristine, waist width needs to be considered much more so... and taper as well... and length, maybe... The longer the board the less nimble, therefore more stable - pick your poision! The Stranda Makrill 153 is perfect for me. I'm almost exactly your build: 176cm / 62kg / size US 10 boot. It's the perfect tree pow board for me, but feels a bit wide when things get choppy. Carving perfect corduroy is also incredible on that board - until it gets bumpy...
Lots of variables! Gentem generally is quite specific to deep, perfect pow. They carve well, too. But in the steeps the wild amounts of taper make for a washy tail. If you can tell me more about yourself and tell me your current board options, I might be able to help picking.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Thank you so much for the detailed reply. Definitely a bless to have your wisdom on my pickup!☺️So currently within my rotation I have a Gray Mache which is groomer carving specific board as well as Jones project X which is a directional all mountain board which has float pack and carves well. Therefore, I want something thats more powder specific on a deep snow day! Obviously if it could ride just a little bit of groomer that would be awesome too :D. I recon I am not doing untouched pow since I am visiting a lot commercial places. But japan’s pow is definitely very deep and the primary goal is to ride effortlessly on deep snow. While the secondary goal is a bit of maneuverability, since I will be doing some trees here and there. I have tiny asian feet so my foot measures 250. I am considering any of the big mountain series, alternative series and snowsurf series within the catalog. www.gentemstick.com/newsPerma/id_541/🙏🙏
@@DehNeverBeen ok.... with your boot size you're almost forced to ride Gentemstick!! They still offer some very narrow boards. Stick to something around 250 waist width or less. The flat camber boards are great floaters and awesome in pow. Steer away from the short/fat fish shapes. They're WAY too wide for your little feet.... Spoon Fish 146 and 152 works, TT 165 Classic is great, too. But waist is only one factor.......
Big Mountain and Alternative series are not so ideal. Alternatives are super wide, big mountain are very stiff and ask for big mountain speed.... not tree boards!!
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel thank you so much for the time and your opinion! Will definitely pick accordingly. Looking forward to see your next video!
I am not sure the effect in choppy snow is that strong?
I did notice my widest board to strain my feet when riding icy slopes all day having less leverage to dig the edges in. An effect that is somewhat lessened with Skatetech bindings.
Last two days anh the night between it almost constantly rained with a bit snow thrown in, resulting in ultimately wet, heavy sticky snow, soon tracked out into bumps that often at some pressure would collapse. To test different structure/wax in these conditions, I happened to be switching between 3 boards each day going down the same slopes. It sure was a workout for the legs absorbing the bumps and dealing jaggedness of the ride, but no issue with the leverage. And worst was the narrowest of the 3, for being the softest (even though the turniness of its hybrid rocker makes good snow moguls less work), stiff volume shifted in the middle and stiff carving board best, but hardly any narrower than the volume shift, rather just a good deal longer.
So defenitely stiffness and maybe length being much stronger factors there?
I guess it is also subjective.... maybe someone with strong ankles is fine. I definitely notice when a board is too wide for bumpy/choppy stuff. That 'too wide' is likely subjective. Just putting out the thought there is a 'too wide' and a 'too narrow' and a functional waist width.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Yeah, no doubt about the too wide. Could indeed be the ankle strength, at least if it is innate and not any training for it in my case.
Makes sense as far as what I notice in my feet when on icy hardpack with too wide a board is not the ankles, but rather the heel getting sore from the forces trying to pull it out of the heel cup and according friction from vibration.
Hello, what about plates or risers ? Thank you
Video coming soon! Stay tuned.
This makes buying a snowboard so confusing. So I need to buy for my weight along with the correct size waist so im not draggin my boot. Yet manufacturers wanna know my height? Along with not giving me underfoot width but the waist width so I have to assume its bigger underfoot. Why not just tell me so i dont have to guess. Is having a board with the proper width better or is proper board legnth?
Love this comment!! Yes! Correct!! It’s ridiculous. And so inaccurate. They just go by weight, and that is only a third of the story. Board width is often only included inaccurately and length is often suggested too short. This is why I started this channel…. I really hope I can help…
Great video. What would be useful, and what I've never seen, is a comparison of BSL across soft boot brands or models given an equal mondo size. That is, which soft boots are the shortest, and most compact?
Couldn't agree more!!! Maybe let's start with getting every brand to actually tell you mondo size... Hahahahaha... :-) It amazes me how far the boot game is behind...
(For readers who are wondering what BSL means: Boot Sole Length)
That alone would be irrelevant, tbough. The shape of the sole decides about the angle you can achieve, too.
And even if you collected that data, it would still miss the point, the best boot is not the most compact one, but the one that best fits your foot.
@@elho001 You're creating and then attacking a false dichotomy. Nobody suggested looking at compactness "alone" to select a carving soft boot. It's one of many factors that inform choosing a boot. But, also, for me, given size 12s, lack of compactness and long BSL is disqualifying. Even though it's not the single factor by which I *will* choose a boot, it is a single factor by which I *won't* choose a boot. That is, even if all of the other boxes are checked, I won't buy a boot that's too large, long, and prone to drag. The variation in BSL, sole shape, and overall compactness -- as affect drag and boot-out -- is pretty remarkable, even among high performance boots.
@@sugarplumflyjelly Glad you can afford disqualifying boots on that matter, as opposed to being happy to find one that fits at all. Fair enough then.
How does that work with volume shifted boards?
I will be making a video about those shapes here very soon! Essentially those boards are too wide for most people, but manufacturers won't tell you that... Wait for my video. I hope it'll explain all the details. :-)
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel thanks. I bought a Gnu gremlin. I don't notice too much of a difference compared to my non volume shifted boards. But can't wait to hear your thoughts.
My foot measures 265mm and I ride an Orca 153 which has a waist width of 267mm. As an intermediate rider, I’m now thinking this is too much board for me on non pristine conditions. Thoughts anyone?
There are no hard rules for any of this!! If it doesn't bug you, that's great! Had you bought the board from me, I simply would have said "be aware, the waist width is pushing it a little bit for choppy conditions... this and that may happen...". The board is super easy to ride and generally not much board at all, so maybe you're just fine... But yes, it is on the wide side for your feet from the perspective laid out in this video.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel thanks for the in depth video! Love geeking out on all things. 🫡
Lars, Do you know why Jones snowboards recommend women to buy disproportionately wide snowboards compared to men? Check out their recommendations for waist width on the website, Men’s US5-7 = 24-25cm waist. Women’s US5-7 = 23.7-24.5cm. Almost the same width board recommended for a much smaller women’s boot?
The men's/women's boot sizes shouldn't be that different. A women's 6 should be a men's 5, roughly, and so on up the chart.
Good observation : girls have often too wide boards and men too narrow boards....
One full size difference is 8mm. So recommending 3mm difference is truly incorrect. No idea why they're doing it. I agree with @xavierzax comment below!
hmm just got a new set up, new boots, board and so now iam a bit scared it wont fit xD i got 3,5 cm at Backfoot, front +12 and back -12 degree got a 155 board midwide is 251mm. Got an 11 Boot.
That is certainly way too narrow. 265 waist would be more accurate….
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel hmm this dude would say it fits, im really interested in this topic and why you both have such a different thinking about it :D czcams.com/video/GNJ70GPmync/video.html&lc=UgwoLzK1MVoHM3RTEAN4AaABAg.A17Yu3mfO0qA17ZMdxyziE&ab_channel=PeterGlennSki%26Sports
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel im realy interested in the topic,
Peter Glenn Ski & Sports - The Truth About Wide Snowboards, You Might Not Need One! would say its good to go today cause there isnt often a carv that makes problems with that. And cause of boots getting smaler and stuff, hows your opinion about that?
@@Shizuia I'm just now uploading a new video on this. Check it out!! czcams.com/video/XrSl6OgBkpI/video.html
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Thanks :D
Hey Bro! Still waiting on that email; let's do that collab this month. We should ride together when conditions improve or maybe do a simultaneous livestream on both channels if they don't? My email address is in the last minute of my Secrets video.
Still in Europe.