LaserDisc Audio Guide - Part 1: An LD Audio Overview
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- Culturedog Sam Hatch has returned with a small series of videos hashing out the convoluted history of the audio portion of LaserDisc history. Analog, digital, mono, stereo, surround, Pro Logic, AC-3, Dolby Digital, DTS… all those confusing acronyms and output jacks… all will be broken down and explained.
In this first video, Sam will somewhat briefly explain the evolution of LD audio and what you might need to actually listen to it. Future episodes will delve into the specific sound formats and further illustrate how to hook up your gear properly.
Strap in and crank it up!
Chapters
0:00 Opening Titles
0:14 Introduction
1:47 LaserDisc Audio Evolution
3:57 Analog Audio
4:46 Digital Audio
6:04 Player Audio Capabilities
7:17 Digital Outputs/Connections
9:19 Matrixed Surround Sound
10:44 AC-3 Dolby Digital
12:50 DTS Surround
13:47 LD Audio Options
17:25 Player Recommendations
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Intro music: "Anger Mgmt." by Sever the Drama.
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This was an excellent overview, thank you Sam.
Audio was always such a huge selling point for LD as it evolved over the years that it's almost ironic that Pioneer's willingness to cram the newest audio technologies into their big shiny discs only confused people further.
It's great to have one central place to point people towards when trying to answer the eternal question, "what features do people look for in a player?".
Thank you again. 👍😎
Thanks man! Yeah, it was tough to keep up with the changes for sure! Took me about 3 years after it was released to get my first AC-3 compatible player, and then another year to get all the other gear needed to play it in 5.1!
Thank you for doing this brother! 🙏 this is very helpful. I'm sure lots of people have sound issues with LDs and there isn't reliable information online. That's why we come to you!
Thanks for suggesting it! Cheers!
Definitely a great intro to a very complicated topic for a lot of newbies. Look forward to seeing the other episodes.
Thanks! Working on Episode 3 now!
I recently got rid of the very heavy and big Sony audio processor SPD-EP9ES and got the simple Yamaha APD-1 Demodulator. Very pleased with it. For me it’s essential because my AC3 disc collection keeps growing
I definitely regret selling my second Sony MOD RF-1, which is pretty similar in size and function to the Yamaha. Though at the time I didn't think I'd ever have two rooms needing 5.1 laserdisc audio. Oops!
03-05-23; Appreciate the tutorial. Understandingly complex issue(s) as time evolved. This certainly achieved the goal of introducing the key moments of tech advancement along with highlighting the tangents. Just recently into the LD experience, having purchased a Pioneer CLD-59, and this helped me understand several things 'new' to me regarding the back panel hookup options. Will need review and additional details, but now have better basis of truth. My Amp has built-in RF/AC-3 INput, so in several weeks of analysis of used offerings saw immediately I needed to be in the mid-90s + era for a player offering an OUTput to match. Will likely re-listen to this as well as catch the additional videos offered to expand on the knowledge. Looking foward to being competent, knowing the lingo etc. Being a Nerd (Techno-Nerd) was and is not my goal but it is cool to know more than a thing or two and be able to hold intelligent convo's with the geeks to whom I need to rely on to ultimately answer my Questions. No disrespect intended, labels can be used negatively - not my intent. I look at those terms geek and nerd as abbreviations like pHD, Dr etc...
Keep wondering how to go about ripping Laserdisc audio tracks then syncing them to BluRay files/ then burn them to disc. So many great movies have been released with remixes as opposed to the movie's theatrical soundtracks in AC3 or DTS.
Yeah, I haven't done that myself yet, but I know there are a bunch of people at the Original Trilogy forums who have pulled it off.
Been needing this - thanks Sam! Can't wait for the other episodes
Thanks for watching! Editing Part 2 right now - should be ready before the week is out!
I actually prefer listening in raw stereo. Digital or analogue depends on release, but I usually stick with digital, although I feel that the analogue more often have higher frequencies. It's prob. due to my preference of two great speakers (BeoVox Penta) over a mediocre 5.1 setup. The day I can afford a great 5.1 setup I might change my mind
I did pure stereo with LD for a long time too - sometimes 2 sets of stereo speakers if I was feeling wacky.
It definitely sucks when you're hearing full-bodied audio from the fronts and suddenly it fades to some tinny-sounding cheap speakers in the rear.
Don't forget that Pioneer (and perhaps other brands) had home cinema amplifiers with built-in RF demodulators. I owned one way before I ever started collecting LD, a Pioneer VSA-E07.
Yup, those bad boys will be getting some love in Episode 3!
I think some Yamaha and Denon models also has that feature as well.
@@alphabetaxenonzzzcat yeah, there were about 13 major brands putting them out.
Great video, but you should explain analog audio on LD even more in depth, since there was variants of that as well. The early discs were just analog - either mono or stereo. Then CX-noise reduction was added and the very first players could be upgraded with an external box. But not all CX-encoded discs were the same. On some (like the first TRON LD) CX-noise reduction had to be manually enabled. That's what the CX-button is for on nearly all Pioneer remotes. Pretty soon CX-discs automatically enabled the decoder. But there were problems. If the movie was mono and the publisher added an audio commentary on the second analog audio channel, CX had horrible side effects. Criterion learned this the hard way with "It's a wonderful Life". They put CX-noise reduction on both tracks and that resulted in awful "pumping" or "breathing" effects if you just wanted to listen to the (mono) movie soundtrack. Later mono movies with audio commentaries dropped CX because of that. For stereo movies CX remained on the analog channels.
Thanks! I am still actively working on a much more technical-minded LD audio series that will be able to get in the weeds much more. When that will finally be completed - who knows? Haha
Though some of the CX information is presented to some degree in the 2nd episode of this series, which I just posted this morning. 2 down, 3 to go!
Cheers!
Well explained, Sam and I bow to your knowledge on this. I love having laserdiscs but am really not great on understanding the best audio and visual set-up
Thanks so much! It's been a lot of fun nerding out on all this audio material. Wish I had done it sooner! haha
Awesome video brother!
Thanks buddy!
Fantastic video. I've seen many videos addressing video with LD, but so as many with audio.
Thanks man! I love how complicated and convoluted LD audio is - it's so much fun to talk about!
This is an excellent video Culturedog. I am already looking forward to the next part. I remember being blown away when I learned about how all the audio formats worked on LaserDisc.
To this day, the audio on LaserDisc is still impressive to my ears. I love how natural PCM Stereo/Pro Logic sounds on LaserDisc. I still have not heard 5.1 in either Dolby Digital or DTS on LaserDisc though.
Thanks! Yeah, those PCM LaserDisc tracks still deliver the goods!
I just posted the Pro-Logic episode this morning - hope you enjoy it!
Thanks for the quick reply Culturedog. I went ahead and watched your episode about Pro Logic.
I find that PCM/Pro Logic tracks on LaserDisc still hold up nicely all these years later.
Off topic: I'm not sure if you've noticed or heard about this but I bought the 4K edition of Air Force One last Friday and noticed a subtitle change when Gary Oldman is taking over the plane and he says "If we land we're finished" in the vhs/dvd versions but on the blu ray I watched he says "They're landing"..... it's a very strange change in dialogue and people on blu ray.com have pointed it out. Everything else is the same though.
Weird! Definitely changes the tone of the dialogue. How's the 4K look?
@@Culturedog I don't have a 4K player yet but I thought the standard blu ray looked pretty solid, I've seen screen caps of the 4K and it looks just slightly darker and richer in color compared to the blu. The DolbyTrue sounded fantastic, the 4K has an Atmos and DTS HD mix.
Forgot to mention a few receivers did have the AC-3 demodulator built in. I think the way to go is a separate demodulator paired with a new(er) receiver but it does seem easier and cheaper to come across those older receivers with the built in AC-3 then it is to find a dedicated AC-3 demodulator. I've come across a few of those receivers at Goodwills and specialty shops for well under $50 where I've never seen a dedicated demodulator in my travels. My setup is backwards in that my receiver has built in AC-3 demodulation but not DTS so I have to use a separate DTS decoder and feed that into my receiver.
Fear not - those will indeed be coming up in Episode 3! I've got a link to a (somewhat) complete list of receivers with built-in demodulators, so I'll have to add that in the description for those on the hunt.
One of the coolest ones is the Pioneer Elite VSX-99, since later versions included DTS decoding in addition to featuring the onboard AC-3 demodulator/decoder. Shawn over at LaserDisc Forever has one - pretty sure he found it super cheap at a thrift store.
I was super close to buying one of those Technics DTS outboard decoders back in the day - I thought those things were the coolest!
@@Culturedog Awesome, can't wait to watch it. The Technics DTS decoder has served me pretty well for my vintage setup. They seem pretty cheap as well. I found mine at a record store for $20 and I later found a second one at the thrift for $5.
Man, what a great price. I remember seeing those for around $500 in Circuit City way back when.
Thanks so much for the work you put in on these videos. I’ve had an LD player for 30 years but have not understood the real logistics of the sound until now-this series inspired me to hook it up again. I’m watching everything with an Atmos soundbar these days, but the PCM digital sound is nevertheless a commanding presence!
My pleasure! Thanks for watching and commenting, and I'm glad I was able to help out. Keep enjoying those awesome PCM soundtracks!
Thanks From New Zealand Doggy
Thanks for watching! Cheers!
Laserdisc analog audio is interesting .I prefer it . Don’t forget the director’s commentary on another “frequency.”
You did not always need the separate AC3 decoder there were receivers that had them built in
Indeed. We'll be covering those in Episode 3!
That is definitely correct.
We had outboard processors as well as the aforementioned RF Demodulator. I also did a few mods to some of my players that also incorporated an internal AC-3 RF Demodulator to simplify things even further (or more complicated depending on one’s set up).
I have a 1987 pioneer LaserDisc player would I be able to play The Lion King that came out in 95 on LaserDisc on that without having static
Run it in mono. Unplug one of the audio cables. You'll be good
Most consumer players at that point should have digital audio, but if you've got an industrial player there's a chance you might be stuck listening to mono analog at best. The domestic U.S. releases of The Lion King did have AC-3 on the analog right channel, so if you have an analog-only player, you'd need to select the left channel (if you have the remote or have that button on the player) and listen to it that way. Otherwise you'd be listening to a mix of static and movie audio.
All of the digital players I've owned will default to the digital audio on startup, so if you're spinning The Lion King and hearing static right away, there's a good chance it's an analog-only player. If there's no mention of Digital Sound or CD-Video on the player's body, that's another indication.
@@Culturedog I was just asking because I have a LCD-1010 pioneer LaserDisc player
Oh cool! The 1010 definitely has digital audio and will read the the stereo PCM tracks on the Lion King. Just be careful which audio output jacks you use. If I recall correctly, that one's similar to my LD-S1, which has two L/R outputs and for some reason one of them is analog-only, while the other pair will play the analog and digital tracks.
@@Culturedog I love all your LaserDisc videos got that player this year so I wasn't sure thank you☺️
Picture overview...It's a composite format so it'll be a bugger to look good on a modern HDTV and the image will be very soft, also not all titles are in widescreen either!
Disc overview...They're as big as a record and you'll have several of them to flip over if it's a long (over 2hrs) runtime, expect to be changing sides about four times.
😆😆😆😆
Great info man! Sadly those decoders are illusive and pricey hopefully I run across one someday. I've always been interested in Ultra stereo and the like.
Thanks man! Gonna give some love to Ultra Stereo in the next episode too!
Yes - Ultrastereo stuff! Always remember reading up about that in home cinema magazines. I know a few films that used that : The a Player,The Last Seduction and Hoop Dreams.
A Blu-ray but with same size as laserdisc?
Sam, can you explain the difference between an amp and a receiver? Is one preferable to the other?
It's a bit of a mess - people in Europe seem to call everything amps, while people in North America seem to call everything a receiver. Haha
But technically, an amp is just an amplifier, solely taking audio signals and boosting them for speakers - once you add on built-in audio or video processing, it becomes an integrated amp. Then when you add a built-in tuner, it becomes a receiver.
So basically, if it doesn't receive AM or FM signals, it's not a receiver. Integrated amps seem to be more popular in Europe, as I've never met anyone with one here in the states. I wouldn't suspect they'd be that much better sonically than a receiver, though. Everyone I know either has a receiver or they go for separates, which is where you get that next step up in audio quality.
That said, I've heard some pretty awesome sounding receivers!
@@Culturedog wow very interesting.
How do you feel amps/receivers compare to the sound bars we're living with today?
18:03 There is nothing at that address on Google Maps.
Looks like they're in Watsonville now, specializing in DACs and CD transports.
I watched this 3 times and still don't understand what any of this is or how it works
My bad! I'm actually going to do a quick follow-up vid after this series with way less tech-speak.
@@Culturedog I didn't mean it was your fault, I just mean it's so overly confusing that no matter how many times I read about it, it still never makes sense
LD 4 ever lol