Should MLB Use Robot Umpires to Call Balls and Strikes?
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- čas přidán 27. 09. 2016
- The panel on Wednesday's MLB Tonight talks about how the league should handle an electronic strike zone.
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There is something incredibly striking (pun-somewhat intended) about a guy insisting on keeping a system on the basis of human error.
You probably don't add either.
Just use a calculator right?
@@penknight8532 Math is right or wrong just like the strike zone.
Accuracy. Consistancy. Fairness. Whatever achieves this should be the goal.
One missed call can literally change the course and outcome of a game, can shift momentum, and or cause unnecessary arguments and make up calls. As an umpire of 18 years at the high school varsity and semi-pro levels I can attest to the difficult task of calling an accurate strike zone.
Game 5 of World Series, 2019. Correa at bat in 4th inning case and point. The 0-2 pitch was a strike and was called a ball. This caused a complete shift in momentum and the score.
There just holding on to nostalgia. They dont want change lol
They still have a tape deck at home
You can't bribe a robot... Unless you have premium oil.🤗
There are many more missed calls per game than the one guy lets on, and he's confusing total pitches with total umpire calls (an umpire might see 300 pitches but many of those are hit or fouled off). Between 2008-2013, 13.2% of strikes were called balls, and 15.0% of balls were called strikes. From 2008 and 2015 not a single umpire managed to have even 1 fluke season of 90% accuracy. Those missed pitches are a big deal, too, because the difference on a 1-1 pitch going to 2-1 or 1-2 is a jump from batters hitting .250 down to .177
That sounds to me like it's removing the "human element" of the players. Isn't that what I'm paying to see?
Spirit Of The Law if you're a good batter, the count shouldn't matter. if your average drops 100 points with a single strike, you have more to worry about than how close it was to the zone
The count always matters. For both the batter and pitcher, and perhaps indirectly even the fielders and runners.
That is just wrong statistically.
After 0-1 count: .221 average, .592 OPS
After 0-2 count: .166 average, .438 OPS
After 1-0 count: .268 average, .796 OPS
After 2-0 count: .281 average, .955 OPS
After 3-0 count: .282 average, 1.209 OPS (a .736 on-base percentage!)
After 1-1 count: .234 average, .656 OPS
After 2-1 count: .252 average, .781 OPS
After 3-1 count: .274 average, 1.029 OPS
After 1-2 count: .178 average, .489 OPS (a .226 on-base percentage!)
After 2-2 count: .193 average, .584 OPS
On a 3-2 count: .216 average, .792 OPS
So if this is the MAJOR LEAGUE aveerage it doesnt suggest that the player isnt that good. It changes for the pitcher AND batter
no cause human of elemet still happens rather your player or umpire
So next time i go to see the HMAN element of the umpire they can get it wriong. I dotn knwo ANYBODY who wants that element of error.
I will also point out it gives the umpires a way to avoid any kind of possible outside influence on their calls. Thre NBA has already had a referee admit to point shaving. THere is a GREAT basewball player who bet on baseball. ( a guy worth MILLIONS) Do you think there is no chance a baseball umpire might be influenced by a crowd, a gambler or a family member who wants to win some bucks.
I am starting to get disinterested in MLB baseball seems that umpires have too much power and don't know what a Strike or Ball is anymore
The fact these guys are arguing "why do we have to make it better" or sat least more accurate. Is why young fans don't love the game. I'm 19 and watch every Orioles game I can, but too often the umpires have too much of an impact on the outcome of a game. If the technology to instantly get the right call, is there, it has to be used.
it could be seemless to the game. all they have to do is give the ump an earpiece. He hears a beep he calls a stroke. fans won't even notice.
Very good idea
Robot umps now!
"Who says they have to be perfect?" Uhhhhh...if you have the choice between imperfection and perfection are you going to choose the imperfect option? That just doesn't make any sense. You're not eliminating the human element either, humans are still going to be playing the game, but there is an amount of significance placed upon calls by the umpire that they need to be as close to perfect as possible, and if a human gets 299/300 calls in a game thats great, but if a robot can do 300/300...umpires are supposed to be invisible, lets make them that way.
Agree. Baseball is a game of skills among the players, not influenced by umpires. People pay to see the players, not the umpire errors.
And like the players never make mistakes huh
@@blakeengebretson2776 Maybe you are the only one to pay to watch umpires to make mistakes. I pay to watch the baseball players and their team to make the least mistakes. Besides luck, the hitter who makes a good hit must make fewer mistakes than the pitcher, or vise vera. Who says players do not make mistakes, otherwise a hitter will hit 1000 and the pitcher will have 0.00 ERA, which BTW cannot coexist. Once again, I do not pay to watch umpires to make mistakes, but you are welcome to pay to watch the umpires to make mistakes.
Jacob Battye who said the robot is or would be perfect?
Cashflo Digital Sports Network - CDSN boy are you stupid or stupid? They are way more accurate then human umps.
They should go to the PLAYERS and see what THEY think. They are the ones who are playing
No, why not go to the CUSTOMERS, you know the ones paying the bills. FORD doesnt go to their employees looking to see what will be best for their job. They talk to customers
@@JohnFriday3 Are you stupid?
@@TheAbele992 he has a point dude. why not both, but more on the players.
That would be smart and a good move, so baseball won’t do it
@@JohnFriday3 fans don’t pay bills money generated by fans can’t even cover to keep the operating cost of a game for a night advertising is where they make the money
That's why I love that Fiddler on the Roof song called Tradition. It's not a mistake it's tradition.
Did this guy really say "arguing is part of the game" SMH... baseball is the game not arguing, arguing at home...
i like the robot idea. have a digital strike zone or something but still have umpires on their usual positions. no beef and makes the game quicker
You can still have a home plate Umpire to call safe and out at the plate. Let robot umpire call balls and strikes
I really don't understand the argument against. Robot umps would allow the pitcher to have full control of what actually happens. If Chris sale is painting the outside corner perfectly and the ump is calling it a ball then he is negatively affecting the game. Let the players decide what is actually happening
Exactly what I think!
I've thought about the pros. Not really any cons I can think of tbh. The part that sells me is as a pitcher AND a hitter, I would prefer a robot umpire.
How does the robot detect the change in top and bottom of the strike zone for each batter?
How do robots let you watch baseball games sitting in your living room
"Should MLB use an electronic strikezone?"
Me: Angel Hernandez.
In my opinion it’s about the game and not about Umps. When you’re a fan who’s team constantly gets bad calls you lose interest as a fan to even watch games.
ABS challenge system is the best and they're testing it in triple-A. Three challenges per team and only the pitcher, catcher, or hitter can challenge. You keep it if you get it right.
So the ump calls the game, they're provided helpful aids, we keep the aesthetics of baseball, and there is added strategy that makes it more fun.
If robot umpires call balls and strikes will catcher still be a premium defensive position ? Especially since people don't attempt to steal bases that often anymore. Just asking out of curiosity
Yes but you'll lose defensive value coz there's no long pitch framing.
balls and strikes are not a judgement call. bring the robots.
BeefPapa but they still are. Umpires have different zones. Some bigger some smaller. There's a saying "the strike zone is what the umpire says it is" it's 100% true. The only time coaches have a legitimate complaint is when the umpire is t consistent with the calls.
jack jon they shouldn't have different zones. The strike zone should not be subject to judgement. The plate does not get wider for some hitters or umpires. It is a set measurement.
Agreed. Nowhere in the rule book does it talk about the strike zone varying between umpires. It's a fixed zone for each batter. The only possible subjectivity is where to judge to the exact centimeter the top and bottom of the zone, as not every batter is the same height with the same upper-lower body ratio. As long as there is a consensus on how that's determined, this can work objectively as it was meant to.
BeefPapa you are so wrong
yes they are
This is a perfect example of a bad put together panel. Every single one of these guys are what? Over 50? Of course they're not going to be for robot umpiring. They're to conservative, they were brought up playing this game before you even had the technology of replays, so every single piece of technologic innovation is going to alienate the game from them. Ask a younger audience.
Furthermore I can for the love of God not see any arguments against this. They talk about a human element, but there are still umpires on the bases. And there shouldnt be a human element to call balls or strikes. The strike zone is the most important part of baseball, and one where there shouldn't be a judgement made. It's either a strike or a ball, that's it.
Well said. I think that MLB Network for this potential next huge change in the game, could have gotten a millennial era commentator on this panel to discuss this topic representing the views of most younger MLB fans.
I bet if they were polls on this topic, a strong majority of fans over age 50 i.e Baby Boomers would be against it. My age group i.e Generation X i.e 35-49, would be split down the middle. And age 35 and under, a strong majority would support it.
I think within 10 years or less as a compromise, I think there will be an automated strike zone similar to line calls in tennis. And thus for most games (not counting playoffs), there will be only 3 on-the field umpires and the 4th one off the field watching it on a stadium video monitor as a video/replay ump.
Who cares about the human element I want them to get the call right. It's not disgracing baseball to do it more accurately
I was initially against video technology in soccer but it really is for the better. And with baseball it would be so much easier. See need technology for the strike zone at least. For now..
once there’s robot umps, there will be new things to argue about, don’t worry. just look at soccer and VAR
I guarantee if this was actually implemented after about a few weeks nobody would be against it anymore
They playtested it in the Atlantic League for a couple years. Dropped it 2022 coz it doesn't work well enough
Bring our robot overlords.
Sarah Connor?
So to be clear, we shouldn't use technology? No more night games, no more traveling by plane (go back to trains) no more analytics (requires high-speed computers), no more up-to-date medical care for injuries? What a thoughtful argument.
A bad strike zone (which is pretty common) can materially affect a game. Why not make it closer to 100% accurate if that's possible? Every pitcher I've heard weigh in on this topic argues that then they wouldn't "get the call" on a pitch outside the strike zone like they do now when they demonstrate they can hit that spot consistently. In other words, they won't get balls called as strikes even after demonstrating they can throw the same ball pitch time after time. That needs to change.
There's an art to establishing a strike zone. I don't think it was necessarily meant to be an objective thing.
Anyone else picturing ED209 (with a catcher mask hanging off it's front grill) behind the plate as the umpire?
All arguments against robot umpires are either about feelings or a slippery slope. It would be an absolute improvement knowing the rules are being followed and the best athletes actually won.
Another sport that really needs it is soccer/divegrass.
Red just to update and clarify on video calls/instant replay. The 2018 FIFA world cup finally allowed a limited form of video replay i.e goal disputes and fouls. However I don't think its used for the top leagues worldwide yet though for regular season play, i.e English Primer League, etc.
Yup. Bring the robot umps!
Glitches and Hacking in the near future.
To me, you either go all in or you dont. Meaning if you want to give fans stats and metrics and visuals on screen and be very precise....well get robot umps to call balls and strikes. If not, then don't show the strike zone box on screen to make it a natural feeling. The box is what pisses people off due to one clearly seeing the missed call.
Exactly before kzone a lot less people were complaining. And umps were a lot worse.
Love Brian Kenny
Yes
Electronic balls and strikes. The umpires can still call out
Players should be able to argue without being thrown out....
The human element are the players not the umpires.
To the fans to the players they’re part of the game
Baseball fans need to get with the times & embrace change
Sam Phillips so you're not even a baseball fan
Never, your born to love baseball if you not then switch to another sport, simple
The mistakes of the umpire is what makes it fun. Don’t make baseball boring.
Let’s get the umps drunk before the game, that will make it really fun
I said this 4 mouths ago bud
Get the call right - these players are out here to win.
Yes! Definitely. They can control the outco.e of any game. It negatively affects both the pitcher and the batter. Too many critical moments at bat have been blown by an umpire who can only see 3/4 of the plate depending on where he stand behind the catcher. Why do you think they call New York on plays in the field. Because the umpires view is not always the best angle to make the correct call. It would fairer to both pitcher and batter. And the fans would feel better about both walks or strikeouts.
Don't change the game! Baseball wouldn't be baseball without an old unpredictable imperfect umpire ejecting and arguing with the hitters and skippers. Home plate umpires are apart of baseball culture.
"Don't integrate the water fountains! Society wouldn't be society without segregated black and white bathrooms and water fountains. Segregated water fountains are a part of American culture."
You see what I did there? "Culture" is a horrible excuse for keeping things "the way they are". There should always be a gradual improving change with everything. In this case if technology allows improved umpires then bring on a more fair and unbiased game. In the case of segregation, civil rights allowed for good change.
Don't be scared of change, it's often for the betterment of the sport.
Red So you want to see robots call balls and strikes?
Sure. It would be very seamless. The home plate umpire would still be there, but he would have an earpiece that would tell him what the call is with 100% accuracy.
Meanwhile, the people at home would just say "wow, this umpire hasn't missed a call." And would be regarded very highly.
I don't see any cons to this, unless people really just prefer to watch the drama of the sport when people disagree rather than athletes perform. Which is fine, that's a legitimate complain, but I think it's ultimately messing with the integrity of the sport if that's the case.
It's a dum theory to have it would be like the one baseball video game where the Umps where robots and when it was a close play they had to battle to determine if the runner is safe or out.
Yellow Flame Gaulent that sounds amazing lol
You don't worry about umpires hurt by a wild pitch, foul tip or wild swing either.
After this World Series I am 100% for Robo Strike Zone.
People are always going to feel screwed. If you have robots you'll have people still complaining about the strike zone. Oh the programming is to favor the home team.
.... so it is okay to have incorrect calls to have human element... Even FIFA adopted VAR, MLB doesn't want to adopt new technology cus they like beefing and argument.
I love baseball and i love the idea of really knowing whose truly the best. I mean there's 164 games a year for every team, the "league best" go to the playoffs but sometimes teams lose a game for missed calls, and every game counts, that to me its not fair. I think baseball players should be the only ones who AFFECT the out coming of a game. Umps are paid to get the calls right not to make the game interesting. Its only fair. Its the way to go. Its, i hope, the future.
Chara Rivers 162 games.
Lets just be honest is there even an exact measurement for strike zones theses days. Honestly I don't think it matters.
YES
Human part of the game--like bias even before a pitch is thrown.
If you’re against it you’re against the progression of the game
For me the umpire needs to stay, not because of the calls, I think it would be better to have all the calls right, and not because of the unpredictability, but it takes away skills from players. Certain pitchers are better at using umpires, and certain hitters can get calls as well. The 90s Braves trio made they're careers by working umpires over the course of a game until 3 in off the plate was a strike. It's a skill some can use to they're advantage that would be taken away. There is also a skill to learning and adjusting to a strike zone that would be eliminated. I also think little things like a 3-0 strike, or 0-2 ball, that are and should be part of the game are eliminated. That's my 2 cents. It has nothing to do with the calls, it has to do with the fact you would be disregarding skill sets different players have.
If The Pitcher doesnt experience fatigue and can place the ball on the corners everytime... then yes, he (The Pitcher) can and should bitch about the call. In that case a robot pitcher is a vaible option. Until then... no Iumpire 1.0... okay? Baseball is great.
Fact: baseball derives it's fan interest from being a soap opera, not a sport.
The best idea is find out who are the best home plate guys
Yeah I'd never thought of that option before and I think I'm all for it. Remove the shitty ball/strike callers from that role, and give it exclusively to people who have proven to be competent at it.
well would’ve the catcher was about to pickoff the the runner at first then he wouldn’t have to try to frame the ball so he can get the ball to first was quicker then if he’s arm was in the strike zone i’m totally against robot umps i think it’s stupid
Its not that simple there hbp there catcher interfernce batter intefrences in the box out of the box not moving out of the way. foul tip... there safe and out there fair and foul this stuff is all with home plate rather your calling stirke or balls safe or outs these ususally effect the area you want to make robot makes no sense how would it be done so it wouldn't effect the play?
90% of the fun in baseball is arguing balls/strikes with the umpire!
no it isn't.. it causes controversy. 1 name: Angel Hernandez
I want 100% strike or ball.... i don't care about controversy
The 3 guys on the left are a bit hysterical -- especially the guy in the tan pants. Their attitude was similar to "it's good enough for government work."
I'm new to the game of baseball, but in the year and a half I've been watching, I've seen so much inconsistency it's almost mindboggling. I've seen some good umps, some decent umps, and some downright horrible umps. And I've seen an ump's pique turn to personal animus toward a team. Also, there's a clip of one ump (not naming him, but initials are RK) who kept repeating "I can do anything I want" in a heated incident. Really? *That's* revealing, isn't it? As a fan, I want *accurate* umpiring. What a concept, eh? I don't want to watch one of my batters waste a swing on a lousy pitch just because the location of that pitch was called a strike the last time it was thrown. I also don't want to see my pitcher get cheated out of a legitimate strike. Those are lose-lose situations for both batter and pitcher -- not to mention the fan, without whom, let's face it, baseball will lose its luster.
The guy on the left said it all when he said to get the call right. 1:26 The guy in the tan pants for some reason gives an example of a Cubs game where the ump got only one call wrong in the whole game. Big deal. With the electronic strike zone, we could get that number down to zero. There's plenty of "human element" in the game without having to deal with human error calling balls and strikes. Not to mention the egos of certain umps.
Nobody presented a reason to not use automation, how did this conversation go so long. “Human element” is not a reason, that’s just a contradiction.
Don't code it with Angel Hernandez eyes
Watching World Series - the best umpires - they try, but the job of calling balls & strikes is too tough. Specialty pitchers, a lot of different pitches. Good umps want to get the calls right. Auto system needs to get better, though. Home plate umpire still needed. Everyone's strike zone needs to be in the system. Pitch Tracker boxes on TV not accurate - looks like same box for everyone.
Lol if you think the robo umpire will be perfect
Rule book defines what a strike is. The umps get it wrong way toi much.
It's called progress. You know in the good old days baseball was played without gloves. Let's go back to those days.. we have instant replay, slow motion, stop motion on every part of the game. We can watch the spin of the ball and even measure spin rates. How about all that sports medicine? Babe Ruth had no trainers, no weight rooms. Whirlpool baths, dietitians,. Take away all the statistics used to set the infield, tell pitchers how to pitch. Speaking of pitchers, let's get back to when a pitcher was expected to go nine innings, let's get rid of Tommy John surgery. Then get rid of that rectangle you see over the plate that we see on the tv. Tradition.... Tradition!!
Do it in the minor leagues. This could speed up the game a lot.
Why is this even a question
I think it would be funny if players complain to the robot after a bad call
Long overdue! Next up batters that are beanballed should be allowed to pay back with bats!
I agree with Chris you can’t rely on technology for everything. You need a human element for something baseball doesn’t need to change like this
The "human element" argument is bullshit. Save the human element for the players, not the umpires. Balls and strikes shouldn't be a judgement call. Bring on the computer umps.
Do people making the "human element" argument really think that if the technology had existed when the game of baseball was first being developed, they wouldn't have used it? OF COURSE they would have! They only used umps to call balls and strikes because it was the best and most accurate, and fair method they had back then. Now we're past that - in short, BRING IN THE ROBOTS
They're not accurate enough and still have margin of error (at least an inch). Atlantic League dropped ABS in 2022. It just doesn't work trying to make "objective" calls on a strike zone which is subjective to the batter's STANCE.
If we're forced to have robo umps, it should be used like Hawkeye challenges in tennis imo. (Even those computer calls in tennis have been badly wrong. I think Hawkeye in tennis has margin of error bw 2-4mm which is at least a lot better.)
easier to fix games. the Dominion Systems.
Uh, yes
i LOVE THE ROBOT UMP IDEA! However only for balls and strikes. Also I still think the ump should call it, just have the headset tell him what to call
People wouldn't even notice, if anything they would just say "Wow, that umpire is fucking GOOD! Hasn't made a bad call all game."
How are people against this?
can't be done
Is Brian Kenny gonna get rid of the ball and the bat next...While he’s at it he mine as well get rid of the bases too...Baseball has been the Americas past time for 100 plus years...lots of ppl love it...stop trying to change it
the bat and the balls don't make the mistakes, there there to play the game. the umps would still be there also ur not getting rid of them. they would still be in the same spots calling balls and strikes just with an earpiece telling them the correct call. u wouldn't even know the difference if it started tomorrow and nobody told u, u wouldn't even know. or would you care or say I didn't know he was calling a perfect game because he had help, I really cared about him missing up the game up before and making errors !
Anything that can take judgment calls out of the game is always a good thing. Baseball is one of the few sports where they don't embrace change. Much like the NBA and the NFL, the officials have been making the game more and more about themselves rather than the game. If I can ID an ump based on how they are calling the balls and strikes, that is never a good thing.
How about letting each team choose whether they can have full robot/trackman or hybrid or human umpire each game, or each season?
MLB should try a robot in spring training. Umps make the game more interesting and fun to watch imo. Maybe teams get one replay challenge on balls and strikes for those crucial moments. But can you imagine an end game scenario where one team is all out celebrating on the field only to have the outcome reversed...that would be sooo funny and tragic at the same time.
I'm not sure how challenging a call made by technology would work. To me, that would be akin to challenging the replay. I suppose they could go to a super-duper high resolution replay of the pitch, and see on an atomic level whether the molecules comprising the outside of the baseball crossed the molecules comprising the outside edge of the plate. But that sounds pretty silly.
Damn this aged poorly. Have you seen the atlantic league games?
Ump this, ump that, please shut up. Here you have all these guys in their mid 50’s who haven’t played baseball in decades talking about modern day baseball. The game has changed drastically in 1 aspect, and that’s catching. You see almost all pro catchers going from 1 knee in a primary stance, making it 10x easier to frame and steal pitches. It has absolutely nothing to do with umpires, and all catchers. Catchers are beginning to do things that the human eye cannot see in real time. Have the young coaches and players decide this because 60 year guys shouldn’t have a damn say in 2021 baseball.
no
Yes Yes a thousand times yesssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Only fans want robo umps as a player gaming blue is the best
Two umpires, Angel Hernandez & Joe West. The two biggest clowns for umpires! Every game we can see the umps screwing up! These bozos are being paid off by the umpires union!
Human elements how to fix each game.
Need electric system. People are too faulty.
The thing is it is already proven that the Robotic Umpire is also wrong!
Hell no. Train the umps right!
They will train the umps, with the best software upgrades possible.
162 to games a year umpire to rotate three times to do the plate is over the top there a reason they switch spot to give the plate umpire break. i have done three games in row you get tired very quickly i done games almost everyday now through spring to summer it was tiring i was happy to get day off than i would still do damn games seriously... i love too much but doing the plate three times in a row its bit over the top. no ok in my book you also not getting other people to chance to grow and become better umpires. bk yes you are blamming the umpires so shut it
The human element of having umpires behind the plate is incredibly important. I mean, expanding the strike zone to keep from striking out on a borderline pitch as a batter is a huge part of the strategy in baseball.
beefing why we just make the beefing players robots so they don't say anything?
I understand arguments to both sides of this topic, but do not for the love of God tell me that if we have robot umps we might as well have robot players. That's makes no sense whatsoever. People watch and play baseball because it's about the players and teams, not because of umpires. Don't act like adding robots as umps makes the game less respectable or credible to the extent that we might as well have robots everywhere. If anything, it makes the game more credible because the winner is more deserving since they never had to rely on a missed call at the plate. However, I kind of like the idea that the strike zone changes depending on the umpire and it's up to both team to figure out what the ump considers a ball/strike. The problem arrives when umps are inconsistent and call the same pitches differently in the same game. So i'm still undecided on this idea myself, not like my opinion really matters at the end of the day.
Royd exactly. Plus, there could still be an umpire behind the plate who makes the call, just with the robot strike zone telling him whether it's a ball or strike. Still have punchouts and a guy to eject people. The robot is a great idea
Umpires are not part of the team. Sometimes umpires develop bad relationships with some players causing bad calls, the robot would make much sense now in this time and age. Given that there's so much money involved.
Royd I pay to see players play not umpires umpire so I dont care if we have robo umpires.
Yes robot umps if it changes dynamically to the size of each batter. Umps still call plays at the plate, balks, check swings/vs full swings, and tons more. Why force them to worry about balls/strikes, continue animosity between players and umps, give losing team fans another reason to complain, and rob good pitching or a good eye from a batter because of nostalgic reasons? Let the players play, if it's a strike then the pitcher earned it so let him have it.
Excellent point. Obviously there can still be a home plate umpire to make other important calls, including some that are subjective. All I'd add is that replay should be expanded to include whether the ball was foul tipped. As I understand, that's one of the few objective calls still not included in replay.
no they can't home plate calls more than ball and stirkes you people don't get there timing play there foul tip and foul balls there hpb there catchers interfrence this is something a human has to be able to call robot umpire not going to be able to call this shit
Guy arguing against it is paid by the union
No, no, no, no, no.
Stutterville much?