Soldier 76 is intentionally designed to be basic and uninspired because he meant to be a character that is similar to all FPS characters. Soldier 76, as the overwatch team put it, is meant to be the character that would ease the process for people coming from games like cod to overwatch, that why he’s also the tutorial character
Recently just introduced my friend to OW2 and he instantly gravitized towards Soldier. He played a lot of Black Ops and felt the character was fun to play. So this really is true.
@@TheBingoAstro Basic characters are cool, like Genji is a ninja which is generic but it’s fun to play as a ninja, just like it’s fun to play as a basic soldier guy. Imo Common archetypes are good as long as they’re done in an interesting way and are fun to play
I’ve seen people argue for Widowmakers design that even if it’s sexualized it fits her character and backstory, since she would have her body type from her past as a professional ballet dancer and that when Talon kidnapped and brainwashed her to be an assassin, they specifically made her more of a “femme fatale” assassin so she could get her husbands guard down and easily kill him, which they say is the reason behind her uniform. Don’t know if I completely agree with it, but I definitely see where those arguments come from.
I can side with this, I never really had a problem with Widow's uniform as it really would help her ,over around more easily without too much padding or lose clothing to worry about. Everything is formed to her body making it a lot harder for it to be snagged onto something.
I thought it was more appropriate for her not because of a femme fatale archetype, but because it shows that she's being taken advantage of. the objectification in her costume is just like her objectivation in talon. This goes for Symetra too. and Sigma I guess.
Soldier76 is far from being one of my favourite characters in Overwatch, but I still love his design. He’s supposed to look like a generic shooter man, he’s the starting point for new players, both mechanically and stylistically, to ease them in. He’s also made to be a very fatherly figure, strong and tough, someone anyone can look up to, while also not looking exactly like ANYONES Dad... partially since he’s faceless! Just like real dads, you’ll love him at first, learn from him, and eventually, outgrow him, and perhaps resent him. Just like the best Dads! Perhaps some passionate arguments about him have swayed me, or maybe there’s some intention in his boringness, I don’t know, that’s my opinion. Regardless, thanks for the thoughts and POV!
Subjectively For a slightly more in depth look along with a Statue review, check out BardicBrodcasts Overwatch Collecteds Edition review! (The whole vids great but S76 is at 6:40!)
You know speaking of reloading animations, which I love to see in every game, there's one thing that struck me and im not sure if it's just me: Ashe's animation sometimes does the gun twirl like Mccree before reloading, which is something that doesn't always happen but it made me think that "she still has him in her thoughts, in a way or another"
I'd say Soldier 76, Windowmaker, and Reaper are important to have in most games. While they are new examples of old characters, they are also tropes. And tropes absolutely exist for a reason. They allow a straightforward connection from character to audience (in this case, the player). Quick acknowledgment of characteristics by a simple glance--Reaper's distant attitude, Widowmaker's femme fatale character, Soldier 76's no-nonsense personality--is important and common in the first characters of a game. I love them simply because they allow people to identify them as well as identify with them
Friend, I loooove Reaper's design. He's not drab at all. He's so edgy it's circled back around and become cool. Let me just express my love for this dude. His entire shape is expressed through triangles. His hood, mask, upper body and lower body are all large triangles. His claws and spikes also continue with that sharp theme. His mask is unique. It's a skull for sure but that certainly isn't a human skull. I love that they went for a more abstract skull mask because it differentiates him from other skull faced villains in media. Also, it resembles an owl face, which can be a symbol of death. Reaper's giant metal boots make him look both militaristic and sci fi. The black with touches of red and white give him a very monotone but still ultimately striking look. The concept artist did a fantastic job. I wouldnt call a single Overwatch hero poorly designed. Even Widow. I think her design is legitimately fantastic. It's strange for a sniper to be that sensual (as snipers by definition dont ever want you to be near them) but it's still well designed. Also, some women are okay with showing more skin. Overall, I did like your video. It was good! I especially liked the point about Mei looking like a snowman, I had really never noticed before.
Tbh Reaper is not horrible, I do think he's a bit of satirical design and a love a lot of his skins. And Widomaker isn't poorly designed, she's just kinda basic. If Overwatch had more female designs as provocative as her, it might be more of an issue, but overall the design team does a really good job with female representation, so it's not a huge deal. She has some skins I like too- like her Huntress and Cote D'Azure skins!
Subjectively Oh I agree. Reaper is satirical but still, I really do like what theyve done. I do think that Widow could be improved too (I prefer her concept art, she looks a little more evil). I dont mean to trash your video by the way. I do think your criticism is valid
CherryWolf not at all! We’re all about the conversation here. You should check out one of our older videos where we redesign widomaker- we all had a few different ideas on we could improve her design
Awesome video! The only thing that threw me off is bundling Reaper in with Widow and 76. He's meant to be much more of a satirical take on edgy characters. I think because of that and how they portray him (like the foot tapping instead of dancing) is actually kind of creative, as it used a cliche as a base, but was taken in a comedic and satirical direction.
I definitely think you’re right, and even for a cliche he’s kind of a guilty pleasure design for me. I really like a lot of his skins too, like the Blanco and Lu Bu
@@Subjectively heck yeah, he's my guilty pleasure too, haha (although I don't play him at all, not so good at shotguns). And my comment was not at all to diminish the video, it's damn dope and deserves more recognition. Subbing immediately and I hope to see more!
tbh, overwatch is one of the most diverse games out there in a lot of respects. its just that people aren't fine with just that. you cant blame blizzard for putting the gameplay first. new heros are always exciting for the game, no matter who they are or what they look like. its (for the most part) always good shit from blizzard. thats my 2 cents, anywho.
Yeah as someone who enjoys designing characters. Mainly in terms of writing. It is incredibly hard to create a broad range of characters with good representation. I tend to favor designing female characters. From my strong and sturdy Raider to the slim Sniper. To the overly attractive mechanic. However I have issues designing characters who are not white and or male. The ones that break one of these conventions being The tanned female android. Aforementioned japanese Sniper A joke on token black characters. Boring white grizzled white guy
I feel like soilder 76 needed to look basic. Its kinda an into into the game and its mechanics. He has a run a straight foward gun and abilities and ult. I learned how to play from his character
Me, a flex player, is also afraid of Brig. Even if her rework made her different to play, you still can’t get too close to her. (Infact I can do much better with her after the rework then before. Then again I am used to playing backline healers much more than Brig)
sees shooters with uninteresting characters, sees Rainbow Six Siege, Me: Say sike right now. (I know that the operators of Siege are nowhere near as distinct as the heroes of Overwatch, but at least the indivual operators have some distinctions in their looks and personality, While the community also builds off of them and can create some fun characters.)
I am willing to pay 10 bucks to see if this game is indeed good or not. Siege is so goddamn popular, it's wierd because slow/tactical games are a small niche to say the least. Splinter cell had one of the best multi-player ever (blacklist that is, the only one I played). It was slow and the "pressure" was always there (not recommend for people who suffers with ansiety). If Siege has some of that, I'm sold.
@@RRRRRRRRR33 Once every season (about every 3 months) the game will have a free to play weekend as well as a 50%sale during said weekend. So you can give it a try, but it's not that cheap, but is still a good deal. And yeah some games can be really tense, You gotta always watch your back and check your corners, and just because you are behind a wall doesn't always mean your safe. If you do decide to try just be wary of the toxicity (aka try to get a friend or look for groups on discord or reddit) I've been playing for 2 years and it's one of my favorite multiplayer games.
Inclusivity and representation includes less represented character concepts, but also should still INCLUDE characters that are white, male, stereotypical, over represented, etc... To be honest, looking down on those characters just for being stereotypical, sexy, white, trope-y, or whatever, or acting like they don't "deserve" to be represented in a diverse cast, is an "-ism" as well.
Right? That's exactly what I was thinking. I'm plenty fine with the cast of the game, and despite ultimately being pretty right wing and conservative, think it's only fair that a game about a global initiative to fight a crisis working together should have a cast of people from all over and every walk of life. To then suddenly act like inclusivity should exclude the "overly represented" demographics is just silly. Not only that, but what I find interesting is that he doesn't mention that almost all of the typical "over represented" characters (white men) are old. 76 is as effective as he is still, because he is essentially Captain America for this world. He was the goody two shoes of Overwatch, and became its face, only to now be a faceless vigilante, wanted by the law. He feels that his age is catching up to him. Reinhardt even more so, suffers the cruel fate that befalls any warrior strong enough to survive all his wars. When you charge and hit a wall, he groans in pain. His emotes often include him attempting to show that he's "still got it," only for him to hurt himself due to his lack of flexibility from age and injuries. Torbjorn is old, a father who tries to simply build things, and is missing an entire arm, making him even more of a non-combatant than before. McCree is the only white man that comes to mind immediately, who isn't *old*, but even he's older, most likely in his upper thirties, and is missing an arm. To me, these designs serve two purposes: to show that veterans, the wounded and old, still can be formidable and can have a fighting spirit as strong as anyone else. And that the trope itself, like these characters, is getting old. And that's okay. Interesting that he didn't mention the prosthetics in regards to inclusion.
Look at the latest character release, Sigma. People are flat out angry that he is Dutch. They havent added a white dude since the launch of the game, and yet people are up in arms. If I may let's look into that. Dlc 1. Ana, elderly Egyptian woman Dlc 2. Sombra, young latino woman Dlc 3. Orisa, African robot (female?) Dlc 4. Doomfist, african Male Dlc 5. Moira, Scottish woman Dlc 6. Brigitte, swedish lady Dlc 7. Ball, moon hamster Dlc 8. Baptiste, black man. (I forget where hes from) Dlc 9. Sigma, older white guy. So people are mad there isnt a black woman? Trust me theyl add one eventually,
Some of the best character designs this generation have been white males. Representation isn’t about getting rid of one race for another, it’s giving everybody equally unique, fleshed out, and well designed characters
the one design element of overwatch I never got was widowmaker's suit - why shiny pink on a sniper? who is spider themed? It doesn't even read "ballet" to me either - I wish they'd gone with a different shade of pink, a different material texture or just a different color (I'd take Reaper and Soldier's "generic" over the "why this though" I get from widow xD)
Dark, Blue/purple-ish colors can actually be harder to see in front of dark surfaces than just straight up pitch black. It's also why ancient ninja wore dark blue, not black.
Representation done right means drawing attention to the individual while keeping the rep subtle. Representation done wrong means hyper-focusing on the thing that got them representation in the first place (race, gender, culture, etc). For instance, a good female character would not draw attention to the fact that she's a woman. Rather instead draw attention to her actions, treat her as human by applying action and consequence (if she steals something, hurts someone, is a total prick, she's likely a bad person. If she helps someone in need, treats people with respect, etc, she's likely a good person). Have her go through development by giving her actual flaws to overcome and struggle with, seeing a character for the first time means you need to address past and present flaws they need to overcome in the future throughout the journey. Don't give them the solution to every problem on the spot, don't have the character steal/replace a legacy, don't have the character belittle the cast or the audience and expect them to like the character because she's a woman. A good character, for ANY representation, should focus on their actions, their behavior, and importantly their journey. If you make the character solve every problem from the start without context, understanding, or training, that's a mary/gary sue. If you make them into a total jackass of a character that talks down to the audience, cast, colleagues and expect them to like the character because of representation, you're pandering. If the character is designed to replace/steal/destroy the legacy/canon of a previous character and establish themselves as the new character, you're a bad designer who's work can't hold up on its own without attaching it to something popular (unless you're making something for fun on your own time). If you've received similar criticisms before, and lashed out while playing the whole racist/sexist spiel when that isn't the problem, then you're just trying to hide your terrible skills behind the representation while trying to divert the issue to something that isn't the problem. That's what bad representation is: drawing attention to the character's "representative trait", rather than the character themselves. Thinking the audience, minority or majority, will like them (or are obligated to) because of representation. Thinking that making the original character in an already established story/canon a different race/gender/culture would improve the character altogether. There's nothing wrong with having a diverse cast, and there's nothing wrong with representation, just do it right. Focus on the character's actions/behavior/journey instead of turning them into an almighty force and draw attention to their rep. Create a setting/legacy befitting them instead of taking from/destroying an already established world/canon. Give the character their own voice instead of having them be a mouthpiece of personal politics and talking down to the audience. No character, minority or majority, is going to hold up if you turn them into a personal insert/political parrot/(something) sue, have them talking down to/insulting the audience, and/or you yourself insulting the audience for criticizing/not liking the character thinking they have some obligation to do so. Such a mentality has cost careers, companies, money, and even lives (the designer being driven to suicide, or the designer themselves driving someone else to suicide). I pray none of this has gone in one ear and out the other, that this advice is heeded. I'm trying to save everyone the headaches, frustrations, and death threats that come from the "it's representative, you're supposed to like it" mentality. The representation falls flat like a cardboard cut-out if it has nothing to back it. Just remember, good representation is focusing on the character as an individual (actions/behavior/journey), bad representation is hyper-focusing on what made them representative (race/gender/culture/etc).
Other commenters have said this already, but I think Widowmaker, Soldier 76, and Reaper’s designs and characters are incredibly important. Aside from everything that others have touched upon, they are a more believable and real-world example of the archetypes they embody. I was aggressively bored of Soldier 76 and thought him nothing but an overused trope and a stupid tool to get CS:GO-heads hooked but after his cinematic I fell in love with him, I saw that he was the man who embodies the trope, not a trope with the body of a man. Honestly, the worst character to me now is Sigma, he seems to be the first character who they did not fully combine the archetype and the lore with. He almost just feels like a Paladins character, without that Overwatch charm. The first character who would seem out of place in the real world. I guess it’s because of the way mental health and institutions work into Sigma’s character. He is the product of utterly antiquated practices, 1800’s and 1900’s psychiatry. Like the “no shoes” thing has been moved far past especially in places like the Netherlands. I loved Reaper as an embodiment of depression and anger issues after trauma, the sadness of Winston and Reinhardt the other side of that coin. I’m just kinda bummed that the same game that brought me the shirt that plays every time I log on and often makes me cry would make spectacle out of mental health problems like that. I fucking loved Sigma’s origin story, I just hope they make him more of an actual person. There’s a difference between a realistic person and a believable character.
Orisa’s design and personality combined with her backstory makes her one of my favorite video game characters. She’s such a cinnamon roll and I’m proud to main her
I think that the part about Soldier and Reaper being fodder for CoD players, although true mechanically, isnt really important. If all of your characters are heavier set women of color then you've still failed at representation, just on the other end of the norm. I think the inclusion of Widowmaker, Soldier76, and Reaper is important because otherwise we begin to wipe out some representation. Because there are thin sexy women who play games and John the white guy
Arteriop ! As “John White Guy’, I feel like I can say that we already have plenty of representation. The protagonists of nearly 95% of all games are white men, so while representation in its most basic sense does mean all races and genders, here we’re really talking about representing minorities who haven’t seen much representation in games
Maybe the reason why Soldier: 76's design is so generic(and like you said, doesn't look unique) is BECAUSE the fact that he's a super soldier. It would be logical that some kind of organization would make super soldiers. And since there's super soldiers, why wouldn't there be one you can play as? Like you said, he's just like any other soldier in any other game, and there SHOULD be one in the game because since stuff like the Omnic Crisis happened why wouldn't the government have a military army? And what kind of military army doesn't have soldiers? It's literally his character name, Soldier: 76. Maybe stop looking at Jack, and start looking at *Soldier*
Wait so you’re mad that the bad guy reaper is designed to be bad? And you’re mad that a femme fatale assassin is feminine? So what I’m seeing is it’s ok to have a chubby woman, a buff woman, etc. but it’s not ok to have a “traditionally attractive” slender one?
The Overwatch Team has made it very clear that the characters are diverse for the sake of variety, not because of representation or progressive values. That is why characters like Soldier, Widow and Reaper exist. Because variety includes those "types" of characters as well. It's funny how people who seek representation so _badly_ are never satisfied with just that. They always seem to want to erase the norms rather than coexist. This, more than anything, is the reason you get so much push back. Fact is, most people, minorities included, don't care about representation (anime, for example, is seeing massive growth after all). They care about quality storytelling and relatable characters, and a characters reliability has nothing to do with their body type or race _unless_ the subject matter of the product directly relates to those characteristics, which, in blockbuster action games, is almost never the case.
I actually like Widowmaker a lot because I think she's meant to go against the over-sexualized stereotype-- yeah, she's got skin-tight clothes that are really reveling and a perfect physique, but she's a heartless, cold-blooded killer. She answers to herself only, and i guess is a REALLY extreme example of women being independent/ not needing to be in a relationship.
9:59 Hmmm.... maybe because a lot of game devs are based in America and whites are the majority? I'm not saying representation is bad, in fact I think they do it just right in Overwatch, but there's a reason so many game protagonists are white males. And to be honest, white people can be just as diverse as any other color of people. iirc, The Witcher is based on Polish Folklore. That's a culture not often represented in video games. The Nords in Skyrim are white. They're based on medieval Scandinavians. Scandinavian culture is barely touched outside of generic Vikingrs. Before complaining about protagonists being white in video games, remember that 1) White people are simply the majority in America, where a lot of video games played by Americans are made, and 2) White people don't all fall under a single banner. I'm American and White. Reinhardt, for example, is also white. Er ist aus Deutschland, or he is from Germany, in English. We probably wouldn't have much in common, as while I am part German, I've lived in America my whole life. Moira is white. Her background is from Ireland. Again, not much in common, other than skin color and hair color for me at least. I could go on for a while. Just a closing note, I have no issue with Overwatch's way of representation. I actually really like it. Tracer and 76 are LGBT, but neither are stereotypes. It's just mentioned in the comics. It's not even blatantly stated in words in either case. In Tracer's case, the comic just shows her and her girlfriend spending Christmas with Winston. In Soldier's case, it's in a picture Ana finds of Soldier and his ex-boyfriend while going through his backpack or whatever and they just talk about how relationships don't seem to work out for either of them for a second before returning to talk about what to do about Reaper getting away. Neither was turned in to an overdone stereotype, and I like that about Overwatch's representation. It's there but it isn't overbearing.
@@tezla6332 They made her sexy to get close to someone she was already close to? She's a sniper now, so it honestly makes no sense for her to be dressed sexy when no one can see her? (I think that shiny purple dot in the distance is a sexy lady lemme check it out loll) Or at least, they shouldn't see her. She's designed like a femme fatale meant to distract people, but her character and purpose doesn't match this. Plus, how many times are we going to see the "she's sexy to lure people in trope" Overwatch does a lot of things right but I personally don't think widow's design is their best work.
9:59 Geralt, the Witcher (The one currently on the Left) is a Caucasian male that looks to be in his 30s-40s (Even though he is REALLY old) because of the world he has been written into, specifically that it takes A LOT of inspiration from Central an Eastern European people, cultures, myths and tales including the beasts and ideals with mostly include male protags and white characters because yeah, Europe. Geralt stands out from most western game designs with more wrinkles, and unkept beard instead of stubble or a well trimmed beard showing to the type of person he is (to the point yet lazy on basic tasks) His eyes change colour as a nice to tie to when he was written, showing when he used a spell or a type of potion and his white hair though adding a nice contrast compared to most other brunettes and blondes in gaming is also a part of the plot, showing the pain he had to go through to become a Witcher. It isn't a lack of diversity, it all ties in with the world, the points of reference the book and in turn the game took from and where the creator is from aka. Poland which is primarily a Caucasian dominated country with less minorities than bigger countries such as America or Britain, for example. Good video, but for talking about character design you missed out a lot on story building and game design. The pale skin, thin eyes and stark white hair (in a bleak, desaturated dark world with a lot of blood) is meant to be a clear marker for a Witcher, who are seen as freaks in game by the npc's.
I was enjoying the video until you brought in the “Representation” part. As a black man I love representation but that does not make a good character design. A character can be “representation” and still have a terrible uninteresting design. Example: I love Doomfist’s design because of his calm but boss demeanor, his backstory is great, and his combat is the coolest. At the same time I find Baptiste to be horribly boring and uninspired. His backstory is literally Finn from Star Wars, he’s as interesting as cardboard, and his design is as generic as Soldier 76, except not in a self-aware way. Both are black representation but IMO vastly different in quality design.
Birdy lol Not necessarily in gameplay mechanics but in visual design. They both fit the generic futuristic soldier silhouette and design, and while their weapons aren’t the same they’re both generic futuristic rifles
Birdy lol think about it both have special leg enhancements both have an aoe that heals if you’re near it both have some special eye wear bap has that stupid one eye thing soldier has tact visor both where apart of a secret organization both are pretty much vigilantes one upholding the law the other taking care of people that have been injured never exposing their actual identities
Yeah, I was confused about that too. He also is quite divergent from the usual look of a Western hot dude, being that he's old, scars and wrinkles, long while hair and a messy unkept beard. fits the story, his personality and his backstory so what was the point of putting him in? Because he's literally while, like hair and skin. I assumed he was albino at first xDD
9:48 this comments made after this time mark are certainly all valid points, i dont disagree that its good to acknolege there are people out there who arent male, white, or straight, but the fact that straight white males are generally bland one dimensional characters like soldier 76, a hero looking out for those around him, or as seen in other games, a self centered villain who cares about nothing but themselves. Generally the status quo for your main character has been limited to a fit, able bodied white man, often straight, however this is altered for soldier 76, as he was relatively recently revealed as gay, is quite boring. As a white kid, trying to find himself its hard to see anyone like me in the media i consume, mostly games, as they all seem to hero archetypes or evil villains. Those who stray from this are often made into jokes or comedic characters. As much as I see diverse and multi layered characters, every person i see in media like me seems to be telling me to be a hero i dont want or need to be. As much as everyone needs their diversity, so do the white males, they can be more than heroes or villains, they can be artistic and funny and interesting. Obviously there are exceptions but this is mostly due to the huge amount of characters who are white and male. I wish there was more diversity not only in games but in media as a whole when it comes to people like me. The recent reveal of sigma has made me overjoyed as its a huge departure from many white male villains, being a victim of his circumstance, exlporing his issues and creating an amazing story, Sigma should be the standard for not only all white male characters but for characters in general.
My opinion on Tf2 vs Overwatch before the main points are presented is that... I want people to realize that they're two different experiences, but OW DID lift a lot from tf2, and yet is basically fighting its forebear for market share.
Do you think you can do a video about the league of legends character designs? I love league and it's lore but there are some characters that just look wack. My favorite are probably Neeko, Nunu and Willump , Kindred, Poppy and Leona
You know one of our initial motivations to create this channel was LOL. We don't play it a lot, but it is fun and some of the characters are really cool. Definitely look forward to a League video from us ;)
The og roster of heroes is pretty flawless imo. However somewhere after Sombra or maybe the hamster, they just stopped trying. Baptiste and Sojourn are a joke when it comes to character design and I feel disapointed because they have cool backstories, but their designs are just giving nothing. Also, Blizzard, there are more black hairstyles out there, than massive dreads tied up in a ponytail, or skinfade, like come on.
ItzDinoSoar Playz Not at all mate. As a soldier main, he’s my personal favorite from the rest. Call it cliche, but soldier 76 is like enjoying a blast from the past.
Nah, his design is just as good as anyone else's. It shows that he is an older soldier, and while it looks generic, it's supposed to. That's his character. Old soldier, no nonsense, just aim and shoot.
I wish the uniqueness of character's faces/body types in-game were as varied as they are in the comics and the shorts. A great example of this is Brigette--I personally loooooved her first appearance in the comics, only for her appearance to change in the reinhardt short, and change to be essentially samefaced as the other female characters in the game.
I was enjoying the video until you did the representation thing wrong. White is not bad, sexualized is not bad, everyone have the right to be included as well, as long as it make sense in the game. Also reaper is supposed to look like the grim reaper, that's his whole theme.
Sexualised can be bad, when its pretty much the only thing a character exists for. Characters that are designed with a story in mind can be varied and unique, characters that are sexualised pretty much fall into the pretty slim purview of slim woman with fat ass. Kinda boring and oversaturated.
You brought up Widowmaker, Soldier, and Reaper as problematic designs, but I would have brought up D.Va. Soldier 76 is supposed to be familiar and welcoming to players of other shooter games, Reaper is a satirical take on edgy characters (which ironically makes him much less edgy than characters like Roadhog and Genji - dear god, Genji), and Widowmaker is the cast's "femme fatale". D.Va, on the other hand, has no such excuse. Her mech seems overgrown and strangely off-balanxe and weighty for what is supposed to be an agile machine, D.Va's own design is boring, her actual character is irritating and in some people's eyes offensive (seriously, she's a glorified e-girl, this should be offending more people), and her story is nonsensical and unsatisfying (five people to defend a city? RTS players, of all things, to pilot mechs? Ludicrous).
I simply wished they actually used lore to back up the great impressions these designs create. You can understand the basics easily, but theres not much beyond those basics.
Not to just turn this into a roast on representation but I feel that there's an issue when you go too far in the opposite direction. Like for example, complaining about Widowmaker because she's traditionally sexually attractive. It makes a lot more sense for her character to be the way she is than any other character (due to her backstory and her being molded into the true 'femme fatale'. And even if it wasn't... Are traditionally attractive women not allowed to be represented just like every other body type and style?
It's not 'representation' of a sexy character like Widowmaker, this character is not for 'sexy women' to enjoy and relate to, it's ONLY for men's joy. 'Traditionaly attractive'? The f? Are you saying that unrealistic oversexualized women in games are a tradition? This 'body type and style' is porn-like and it represents NO ONE. Well, there IS a lot of terrible porn art with Widowmaker and it says a lot. Her outfit is terrible, especially with that crooked, broken back she has (and no! It's not for male's fantasy, it for StOrY, RIGHT?)
@@Anastasia-gp1hw 1 I didn't mean to cause some major anger in you, and yeah I guess that widowmaker is probably the worst example of it, since I haven't really given the design a proper look (although I still stand by the fact that she was explicitly made into a 'femme fatale' archetype and the fact that her first target was her own husband.) 2: My opinion is just that it annoys me that men are basically just demonized for liking attractive designs. I mean I get the idea that treating women purely as sex objects is bad, but I just can't help but think that if the "social justice warriors" had their way then there wouldn't be any cis white males in fiction EVER, and curvy, attractive women would also basically be entirely banned. This is what I mean by "traditionally attractive women", the thought that because muh social justice we're not allowed to have attractive characters ever. Like... There are ways to make sexualized characters that aren't objectified (See Bayonetta for an example, how she revels in it and always has control of her situation no matter what) In summary: I do confess that Widowmaker is an absolutely terrible idea, but I will stand at the defense of sexy women in media in general, because they CAN be done well, and so long as designers are designing actually interesting characters I think that their clothing or lack thereof shouldn't matter.
@@aquamarinerose5405 In a world, where every woman suffers from abuse and objectification (if you are a man - you probably don't notice it because you think it's a "tradition" or "nature", "just how things work" or deny it at all, bc you don't experience it) there should be place for positive discrimination (look it up if you don't know it's a term). I believe the media shouldn't make this world worse and it shouldn't teach men that it's okay that a woman is objectified and that woman's purpose, even in a game is to be f*ckable. If there weren't objectified women in almost every game (idc if there is a rEaSoN for it, like in MGS), we wouldn't be talking now. It's depressing that you understand some things, but make it look like "now we can't have sexy designs" when they are omnipresent. Bayonetta is just the worst example. It's terrible that people make a good female character and she's "empowered" just by her sexiness. She, in fact, doesn't look like a real woman. She is made for men, not women. You wouldn't ever notice it.
Exactly. Its Polish Folklore if I remember correctly. Surprise surprise, medieval Polish people had white people in their folklore because they're white!
This vid really helped me better understand character design, but still struggling on them. With one of my stories, I'm really struggling, I want it to be about a researcher going to investigate strange activity in a small town and yada yada, werewolves. But idk, I'm just worried people will find it so plain and boring (story wise)
The plot can be bland. Its the details and the characters (characters especially) that make people enjoy it and want more. And the design is also very crucial, but I know next to nothing about it. Just try to have a unique enough design that emulates adventure.
@@vegmasit9922 thank you! Now that you mention it, I have noticed lots of stuff people are really into that have pretty bland plots, so hopefully I'll survive XD
Your part on the reload animations kinda bothered me because it sounded like that part was ripped directly from Extra Credits'/New Frame Plus' video on Overwatch's First Person Animation (czcams.com/video/7Dga-UqdBR8/video.html). No qualms with the rest of the video though. I figure you probably had the same exact talking points because you both watched the GDC Animation Bootcamp talk.
Overwatch foi o primeiro jogo que joguei que me senti reapresentado, Como um Brasileiro, sempre amei a idéia de Ser representado pelo Lúcio! Mesmo que ele ainda pode ter alguns estereótipos...e quase não falar português o jogo inteiro (no jogo dos outros países é claro)
Moira and that new Sigmund...guy- look like they're from Battleborn which is very ironic cuz fans bashed the game for a couple of years only to accept characters that look just as oblong in design
While i love Reaper, part of that love is recognizing how GOOFY he is. He IS drab and he IS edgy but that’s part of the appeal to me. He’s like a dumb 07 teenager given superpowers.
Oh god you were doing so well who cares about representation? Representation is only important if it fits with the lore it should be second to everything else for example it wouldnt make sense if widowmaker was an obese woman because while it would be more inclusive why would you want an assassin to be in a poor physical shape do you see my point and besides if we are talking about representation there should still be white and hot heroes in the game because if not these people wouldnt feel included like you wish for people to be if none of these heroes were in the game
Representation isn't about removing white/hot people, it's about including those who have been ignored for a long time and are still somewhat ignored today. While representation to pander is a bad idea, and I do agree that there are times where it needs to make sense, like obese Widowmaker, ultimately it would be nice to show variety in our media instead of ignoring very real bits and people of our world.
Steven, got it? How are minorities ignored today? If anything, everyone is overly pandering to minorities and push the “we don’t want straight white males!!!” agenda. I could care less whether there was diversity or not in games, race, sex, orientation, just as long as it isn’t shoved in our face. Look at the massive backlash of battlefield v, with a female lead role IN WW2. This doesnt mean gamers are sexist, it just doesn’t make any sense from the lore perspective and it’s obvious activision is just pandering to the sjw movement. Now compare it to successful games that incorporate women like Zelda bayonetta Metroid they don’t shove it in your face and gamers enjoy. I do think overwatch does a good job of this as often times I couldn’t care less of the appearance and sex of who I’m playing
Nice video. The secret of overwatch is related to the silhouette imo, they are all so iconic. Still, blizzard is not infallible, Baptiste is an abortion design wise.
Soldier 76 is intentionally designed to be basic and uninspired because he meant to be a character that is similar to all FPS characters. Soldier 76, as the overwatch team put it, is meant to be the character that would ease the process for people coming from games like cod to overwatch, that why he’s also the tutorial character
@Seb McFly hahah, yeah true mate
Recently just introduced my friend to OW2 and he instantly gravitized towards Soldier. He played a lot of Black Ops and felt the character was fun to play. So this really is true.
@@TheBingoAstro Basic characters are cool, like Genji is a ninja which is generic but it’s fun to play as a ninja, just like it’s fun to play as a basic soldier guy. Imo Common archetypes are good as long as they’re done in an interesting way and are fun to play
I agree, ever since Hammond got released, I finally feel represented, you don't see a lot of genetically modified hamsters in gaming nowadays
Ha got 'em
Same
Needs more dog people, I feel like I'm being oppressed because they refuse to put a dog person in the game.
Yeah Xbox 360s force didn’t really do it for me
I’m happy that my home is represented in overwatch with Winston. Not many video games have characters from the moon.
I’ve seen people argue for Widowmakers design that even if it’s sexualized it fits her character and backstory, since she would have her body type from her past as a professional ballet dancer and that when Talon kidnapped and brainwashed her to be an assassin, they specifically made her more of a “femme fatale” assassin so she could get her husbands guard down and easily kill him, which they say is the reason behind her uniform.
Don’t know if I completely agree with it, but I definitely see where those arguments come from.
I can side with this, I never really had a problem with Widow's uniform as it really would help her ,over around more easily without too much padding or lose clothing to worry about. Everything is formed to her body making it a lot harder for it to be snagged onto something.
They also say Quiet's outfit is supposed to help her breathe.
it's a lot harder to fight back if your boner keeps getting in the way, very intelligent choice of outfit for an ass-ass-in
Damn she sexy- *gets shot in the head*
I thought it was more appropriate for her not because of a femme fatale archetype, but because it shows that she's being taken advantage of. the objectification in her costume is just like her objectivation in talon. This goes for Symetra too. and Sigma I guess.
Soldier76 is far from being one of my favourite characters in Overwatch, but I still love his design. He’s supposed to look like a generic shooter man, he’s the starting point for new players, both mechanically and stylistically, to ease them in.
He’s also made to be a very fatherly figure, strong and tough, someone anyone can look up to, while also not looking exactly like ANYONES Dad... partially since he’s faceless! Just like real dads, you’ll love him at first, learn from him, and eventually, outgrow him, and perhaps resent him. Just like the best Dads!
Perhaps some passionate arguments about him have swayed me, or maybe there’s some intention in his boringness, I don’t know, that’s my opinion.
Regardless, thanks for the thoughts and POV!
Matthue Loose I like that “dad” perspective! Never really thought of it that way, but it makes sense!
Subjectively For a slightly more in depth look along with a Statue review, check out BardicBrodcasts Overwatch Collecteds Edition review! (The whole vids great but S76 is at 6:40!)
Chris Smid I’m just interested, where does it say he is gay?
@@gabrielrubens4505 In Ana's short story, Bastet
Chris Smid awesome, I’ll have to reread that one!
You know speaking of reloading animations, which I love to see in every game, there's one thing that struck me and im not sure if it's just me: Ashe's animation sometimes does the gun twirl like Mccree before reloading, which is something that doesn't always happen but it made me think that "she still has him in her thoughts, in a way or another"
janusan89 I’m glad some one else saw that and though this haha
CAILEE I freaking love her gun twirl Oml
Wow I never noticed that before but that's interesting
It sucks that I think it’s only her first reload after dying. I wish it was an always or a 50/50 chance of the gun twirl
SpiritWolf_OW j agree
I'd say Soldier 76, Windowmaker, and Reaper are important to have in most games. While they are new examples of old characters, they are also tropes. And tropes absolutely exist for a reason. They allow a straightforward connection from character to audience (in this case, the player). Quick acknowledgment of characteristics by a simple glance--Reaper's distant attitude, Widowmaker's femme fatale character, Soldier 76's no-nonsense personality--is important and common in the first characters of a game.
I love them simply because they allow people to identify them as well as identify with them
Friend, I loooove Reaper's design. He's not drab at all. He's so edgy it's circled back around and become cool.
Let me just express my love for this dude. His entire shape is expressed through triangles. His hood, mask, upper body and lower body are all large triangles. His claws and spikes also continue with that sharp theme. His mask is unique. It's a skull for sure but that certainly isn't a human skull. I love that they went for a more abstract skull mask because it differentiates him from other skull faced villains in media. Also, it resembles an owl face, which can be a symbol of death. Reaper's giant metal boots make him look both militaristic and sci fi. The black with touches of red and white give him a very monotone but still ultimately striking look. The concept artist did a fantastic job.
I wouldnt call a single Overwatch hero poorly designed. Even Widow. I think her design is legitimately fantastic. It's strange for a sniper to be that sensual (as snipers by definition dont ever want you to be near them) but it's still well designed. Also, some women are okay with showing more skin.
Overall, I did like your video. It was good! I especially liked the point about Mei looking like a snowman, I had really never noticed before.
Tbh Reaper is not horrible, I do think he's a bit of satirical design and a love a lot of his skins. And Widomaker isn't poorly designed, she's just kinda basic. If Overwatch had more female designs as provocative as her, it might be more of an issue, but overall the design team does a really good job with female representation, so it's not a huge deal. She has some skins I like too- like her Huntress and Cote D'Azure skins!
Subjectively Oh I agree. Reaper is satirical but still, I really do like what theyve done. I do think that Widow could be improved too (I prefer her concept art, she looks a little more evil). I dont mean to trash your video by the way. I do think your criticism is valid
CherryWolf not at all! We’re all about the conversation here. You should check out one of our older videos where we redesign widomaker- we all had a few different ideas on we could improve her design
Soldier 76 Design: Tired, overused, needs to retire but can't
Jack Morrison: Tired, overused, needs to retire but can't
Seems legit.
Interesting point
Awesome video! The only thing that threw me off is bundling Reaper in with Widow and 76. He's meant to be much more of a satirical take on edgy characters. I think because of that and how they portray him (like the foot tapping instead of dancing) is actually kind of creative, as it used a cliche as a base, but was taken in a comedic and satirical direction.
I definitely think you’re right, and even for a cliche he’s kind of a guilty pleasure design for me. I really like a lot of his skins too, like the Blanco and Lu Bu
@@Subjectively heck yeah, he's my guilty pleasure too, haha (although I don't play him at all, not so good at shotguns). And my comment was not at all to diminish the video, it's damn dope and deserves more recognition. Subbing immediately and I hope to see more!
Anfo Dao thanks so much dude! I’m so glad you commented, that’s exactly what I want from these videos! I love the conversation.
"round, soft, and bottom heavy"
No kidding ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
Begone virgin
I want to like this, but it has 69 likes.
@@Trisepta777 Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Spencer Genovese
He’s talking about them boots, ya dirty dog
tbh, overwatch is one of the most diverse games out there in a lot of respects. its just that people aren't fine with just that. you cant blame blizzard for putting the gameplay first. new heros are always exciting for the game, no matter who they are or what they look like. its (for the most part) always good shit from blizzard. thats my 2 cents, anywho.
I love Overwatch's representation. It's so uplifting to see so many people of so many different backgrounds!
Yeah as someone who enjoys designing characters. Mainly in terms of writing. It is incredibly hard to create a broad range of characters with good representation. I tend to favor designing female characters. From my strong and sturdy Raider to the slim Sniper. To the overly attractive mechanic. However I have issues designing characters who are not white and or male. The ones that break one of these conventions being
The tanned female android.
Aforementioned japanese Sniper
A joke on token black characters.
Boring white grizzled white guy
@House Mouse Main What? Being happy with the diversity doesn't make me hate white males. It doesn't make anyone an extremist lmao
I think Ana is such a breakthrough in character design. An older, female, motherly, confident, egyptian sniper.
I thought Soldier 76’s dance was supposed to be like an old person/dad dance
A dad dance would be bland.
I feel like soilder 76 needed to look basic. Its kinda an into into the game and its mechanics. He has a run a straight foward gun and abilities and ult. I learned how to play from his character
"It's gameplay is engaging and enjoyable for all" - Shows a part featuring Brigitte.
XD
Noctis Corvus all tracer mains shuddered in fear at the sight of brigitte
Me, a flex player, is also afraid of Brig. Even if her rework made her different to play, you still can’t get too close to her. (Infact I can do much better with her after the rework then before. Then again I am used to playing backline healers much more than Brig)
@@Glaycier I stopped playing overwatch around the time Briggite Launched, so I don't really care about that game anymore.
: P
Noctis Corvus That’s fair. If it makes you feel better her shield basically doesn’t exist after he rework.
@@Glaycier But her stuns are?
sees shooters with uninteresting characters,
sees Rainbow Six Siege,
Me: Say sike right now.
(I know that the operators of Siege are nowhere near as distinct as the heroes of Overwatch, but at least the indivual operators have some distinctions in their looks and personality, While the community also builds off of them and can create some fun characters.)
I am willing to pay 10 bucks to see if this game is indeed good or not. Siege is so goddamn popular, it's wierd because slow/tactical games are a small niche to say the least. Splinter cell had one of the best multi-player ever (blacklist that is, the only one I played). It was slow and the "pressure" was always there (not recommend for people who suffers with ansiety). If Siege has some of that, I'm sold.
@@RRRRRRRRR33 Once every season (about every 3 months) the game will have a free to play weekend as well as a 50%sale during said weekend. So you can give it a try, but it's not that cheap, but is still a good deal. And yeah some games can be really tense, You gotta always watch your back and check your corners, and just because you are behind a wall doesn't always mean your safe. If you do decide to try just be wary of the toxicity (aka try to get a friend or look for groups on discord or reddit) I've been playing for 2 years and it's one of my favorite multiplayer games.
We will have an Italian healer that throws food anyway
Kecco812 pm linguini
Yes please I’ve been hoping for an Italian hero for ages
「Pearl Jam」
Inclusivity and representation includes less represented character concepts, but also should still INCLUDE characters that are white, male, stereotypical, over represented, etc...
To be honest, looking down on those characters just for being stereotypical, sexy, white, trope-y, or whatever, or acting like they don't "deserve" to be represented in a diverse cast, is an "-ism" as well.
Right? That's exactly what I was thinking. I'm plenty fine with the cast of the game, and despite ultimately being pretty right wing and conservative, think it's only fair that a game about a global initiative to fight a crisis working together should have a cast of people from all over and every walk of life. To then suddenly act like inclusivity should exclude the "overly represented" demographics is just silly. Not only that, but what I find interesting is that he doesn't mention that almost all of the typical "over represented" characters (white men) are old.
76 is as effective as he is still, because he is essentially Captain America for this world. He was the goody two shoes of Overwatch, and became its face, only to now be a faceless vigilante, wanted by the law. He feels that his age is catching up to him. Reinhardt even more so, suffers the cruel fate that befalls any warrior strong enough to survive all his wars. When you charge and hit a wall, he groans in pain. His emotes often include him attempting to show that he's "still got it," only for him to hurt himself due to his lack of flexibility from age and injuries. Torbjorn is old, a father who tries to simply build things, and is missing an entire arm, making him even more of a non-combatant than before. McCree is the only white man that comes to mind immediately, who isn't *old*, but even he's older, most likely in his upper thirties, and is missing an arm.
To me, these designs serve two purposes: to show that veterans, the wounded and old, still can be formidable and can have a fighting spirit as strong as anyone else. And that the trope itself, like these characters, is getting old. And that's okay. Interesting that he didn't mention the prosthetics in regards to inclusion.
Look at the latest character release, Sigma. People are flat out angry that he is Dutch. They havent added a white dude since the launch of the game, and yet people are up in arms.
If I may let's look into that.
Dlc 1. Ana, elderly Egyptian woman
Dlc 2. Sombra, young latino woman
Dlc 3. Orisa, African robot (female?)
Dlc 4. Doomfist, african Male
Dlc 5. Moira, Scottish woman
Dlc 6. Brigitte, swedish lady
Dlc 7. Ball, moon hamster
Dlc 8. Baptiste, black man. (I forget where hes from)
Dlc 9. Sigma, older white guy.
So people are mad there isnt a black woman? Trust me theyl add one eventually,
@@thezestylime0989 Especially considering Soujorn has literally been introduced already...
Some of the best character designs this generation have been white males. Representation isn’t about getting rid of one race for another, it’s giving everybody equally unique, fleshed out, and well designed characters
The Zesty Lime098 baptiste is Haitian.
the one design element of overwatch I never got was widowmaker's suit - why shiny pink on a sniper? who is spider themed? It doesn't even read "ballet" to me either - I wish they'd gone with a different shade of pink, a different material texture or just a different color (I'd take Reaper and Soldier's "generic" over the "why this though" I get from widow xD)
It feels really weird seeing someone complain about Widowmaker's outfit without mentioning the sexualization of it. Neat.
Dark, Blue/purple-ish colors can actually be harder to see in front of dark surfaces than just straight up pitch black. It's also why ancient ninja wore dark blue, not black.
@@007gollum8 That explains it but why the massive neon red goggles
Snow Faux well they are nocturne vision googles
@@troncho1385 they're neon red,you can see them they can see you LMAO
Representation done right means drawing attention to the individual while keeping the rep subtle. Representation done wrong means hyper-focusing on the thing that got them representation in the first place (race, gender, culture, etc). For instance, a good female character would not draw attention to the fact that she's a woman. Rather instead draw attention to her actions, treat her as human by applying action and consequence (if she steals something, hurts someone, is a total prick, she's likely a bad person. If she helps someone in need, treats people with respect, etc, she's likely a good person). Have her go through development by giving her actual flaws to overcome and struggle with, seeing a character for the first time means you need to address past and present flaws they need to overcome in the future throughout the journey. Don't give them the solution to every problem on the spot, don't have the character steal/replace a legacy, don't have the character belittle the cast or the audience and expect them to like the character because she's a woman. A good character, for ANY representation, should focus on their actions, their behavior, and importantly their journey. If you make the character solve every problem from the start without context, understanding, or training, that's a mary/gary sue. If you make them into a total jackass of a character that talks down to the audience, cast, colleagues and expect them to like the character because of representation, you're pandering. If the character is designed to replace/steal/destroy the legacy/canon of a previous character and establish themselves as the new character, you're a bad designer who's work can't hold up on its own without attaching it to something popular (unless you're making something for fun on your own time). If you've received similar criticisms before, and lashed out while playing the whole racist/sexist spiel when that isn't the problem, then you're just trying to hide your terrible skills behind the representation while trying to divert the issue to something that isn't the problem. That's what bad representation is: drawing attention to the character's "representative trait", rather than the character themselves. Thinking the audience, minority or majority, will like them (or are obligated to) because of representation. Thinking that making the original character in an already established story/canon a different race/gender/culture would improve the character altogether. There's nothing wrong with having a diverse cast, and there's nothing wrong with representation, just do it right. Focus on the character's actions/behavior/journey instead of turning them into an almighty force and draw attention to their rep. Create a setting/legacy befitting them instead of taking from/destroying an already established world/canon. Give the character their own voice instead of having them be a mouthpiece of personal politics and talking down to the audience. No character, minority or majority, is going to hold up if you turn them into a personal insert/political parrot/(something) sue, have them talking down to/insulting the audience, and/or you yourself insulting the audience for criticizing/not liking the character thinking they have some obligation to do so. Such a mentality has cost careers, companies, money, and even lives (the designer being driven to suicide, or the designer themselves driving someone else to suicide). I pray none of this has gone in one ear and out the other, that this advice is heeded. I'm trying to save everyone the headaches, frustrations, and death threats that come from the "it's representative, you're supposed to like it" mentality. The representation falls flat like a cardboard cut-out if it has nothing to back it. Just remember, good representation is focusing on the character as an individual (actions/behavior/journey), bad representation is hyper-focusing on what made them representative (race/gender/culture/etc).
I kinda wish this were a show because hell I wanna see more Roadhog and others
Other commenters have said this already, but I think Widowmaker, Soldier 76, and Reaper’s designs and characters are incredibly important. Aside from everything that others have touched upon, they are a more believable and real-world example of the archetypes they embody.
I was aggressively bored of Soldier 76 and thought him nothing but an overused trope and a stupid tool to get CS:GO-heads hooked but after his cinematic I fell in love with him, I saw that he was the man who embodies the trope, not a trope with the body of a man.
Honestly, the worst character to me now is Sigma, he seems to be the first character who they did not fully combine the archetype and the lore with. He almost just feels like a Paladins character, without that Overwatch charm. The first character who would seem out of place in the real world.
I guess it’s because of the way mental health and institutions work into Sigma’s character. He is the product of utterly antiquated practices, 1800’s and 1900’s psychiatry. Like the “no shoes” thing has been moved far past especially in places like the Netherlands. I loved Reaper as an embodiment of depression and anger issues after trauma, the sadness of Winston and Reinhardt the other side of that coin. I’m just kinda bummed that the same game that brought me the shirt that plays every time I log on and often makes me cry would make spectacle out of mental health problems like that. I fucking loved Sigma’s origin story, I just hope they make him more of an actual person. There’s a difference between a realistic person and a believable character.
Mei’s reload now gives me life
It gives me death, because I thought that swift strike would save me in time.....
Orisa’s design and personality combined with her backstory makes her one of my favorite video game characters. She’s such a cinnamon roll and I’m proud to main her
I think that the part about Soldier and Reaper being fodder for CoD players, although true mechanically, isnt really important. If all of your characters are heavier set women of color then you've still failed at representation, just on the other end of the norm. I think the inclusion of Widowmaker, Soldier76, and Reaper is important because otherwise we begin to wipe out some representation. Because there are thin sexy women who play games and John the white guy
Arteriop ! As “John White Guy’, I feel like I can say that we already have plenty of representation. The protagonists of nearly 95% of all games are white men, so while representation in its most basic sense does mean all races and genders, here we’re really talking about representing minorities who haven’t seen much representation in games
Maybe the reason why Soldier: 76's design is so generic(and like you said, doesn't look unique) is BECAUSE the fact that he's a super soldier. It would be logical that some kind of organization would make super soldiers. And since there's super soldiers, why wouldn't there be one you can play as? Like you said, he's just like any other soldier in any other game, and there SHOULD be one in the game because since stuff like the Omnic Crisis happened why wouldn't the government have a military army? And what kind of military army doesn't have soldiers? It's literally his character name, Soldier: 76. Maybe stop looking at Jack, and start looking at *Soldier*
What a nice vid! Keep up the good work!
Thank you so much!
^^ great vid but when you talked abt white vg protagonists ; isnt booker dewitt mixed native american.. its a big part of his character
Wait so you’re mad that the bad guy reaper is designed to be bad? And you’re mad that a femme fatale assassin is feminine? So what I’m seeing is it’s ok to have a chubby woman, a buff woman, etc. but it’s not ok to have a “traditionally attractive” slender one?
The Overwatch Team has made it very clear that the characters are diverse for the sake of variety, not because of representation or progressive values. That is why characters like Soldier, Widow and Reaper exist. Because variety includes those "types" of characters as well.
It's funny how people who seek representation so _badly_ are never satisfied with just that. They always seem to want to erase the norms rather than coexist. This, more than anything, is the reason you get so much push back.
Fact is, most people, minorities included, don't care about representation (anime, for example, is seeing massive growth after all). They care about quality storytelling and relatable characters, and a characters reliability has nothing to do with their body type or race _unless_ the subject matter of the product directly relates to those characteristics, which, in blockbuster action games, is almost never the case.
Exactly.
I actually like Widowmaker a lot because I think she's meant to go against the over-sexualized stereotype-- yeah, she's got skin-tight clothes that are really reveling and a perfect physique, but she's a heartless, cold-blooded killer. She answers to herself only, and i guess is a REALLY extreme example of women being independent/ not needing to be in a relationship.
9:59 Hmmm.... maybe because a lot of game devs are based in America and whites are the majority? I'm not saying representation is bad, in fact I think they do it just right in Overwatch, but there's a reason so many game protagonists are white males. And to be honest, white people can be just as diverse as any other color of people. iirc, The Witcher is based on Polish Folklore. That's a culture not often represented in video games. The Nords in Skyrim are white. They're based on medieval Scandinavians. Scandinavian culture is barely touched outside of generic Vikingrs.
Before complaining about protagonists being white in video games, remember that 1) White people are simply the majority in America, where a lot of video games played by Americans are made, and 2) White people don't all fall under a single banner. I'm American and White. Reinhardt, for example, is also white. Er ist aus Deutschland, or he is from Germany, in English. We probably wouldn't have much in common, as while I am part German, I've lived in America my whole life. Moira is white. Her background is from Ireland. Again, not much in common, other than skin color and hair color for me at least. I could go on for a while.
Just a closing note, I have no issue with Overwatch's way of representation. I actually really like it. Tracer and 76 are LGBT, but neither are stereotypes. It's just mentioned in the comics. It's not even blatantly stated in words in either case. In Tracer's case, the comic just shows her and her girlfriend spending Christmas with Winston. In Soldier's case, it's in a picture Ana finds of Soldier and his ex-boyfriend while going through his backpack or whatever and they just talk about how relationships don't seem to work out for either of them for a second before returning to talk about what to do about Reaper getting away. Neither was turned in to an overdone stereotype, and I like that about Overwatch's representation. It's there but it isn't overbearing.
"Round, soft and BOTTOM HEAVY"
i always thought that widowmaker's design was purposefully sexualized as if its meant to lure people into her trap
That’s the legit reason in the lore, talon made her that way so she could get close to someone and kill them
@@tezla6332 They made her sexy to get close to someone she was already close to? She's a sniper now, so it honestly makes no sense for her to be dressed sexy when no one can see her? (I think that shiny purple dot in the distance is a sexy lady lemme check it out loll) Or at least, they shouldn't see her.
She's designed like a femme fatale meant to distract people, but her character and purpose doesn't match this. Plus, how many times are we going to see the "she's sexy to lure people in trope" Overwatch does a lot of things right but I personally don't think widow's design is their best work.
greywolf I don’t remember exactly what it said so if I’m wrong I’m sorry, but I see what you’re saying here.
It is.
NetherTaker well never mind then lol
Sometimes i wanna be a sexy snoipah other times just a edgy mcbad guy whit shotgunds
It's not that I am edgy or agree with talons purposes that I like them
Sometimes I just don't feel like wearing shoes or hurting spoders
i just wanna be an australian sniper who throws jars of piss
Is there any chance of a Dead by Daylight video from you??? I'd really like to see your take on it!
"its game play is engaging and enjoyable"... video shows sombra moira and brig xD
9:59 Geralt, the Witcher (The one currently on the Left) is a Caucasian male that looks to be in his 30s-40s (Even though he is REALLY old) because of the world he has been written into, specifically that it takes A LOT of inspiration from Central an Eastern European people, cultures, myths and tales including the beasts and ideals with mostly include male protags and white characters because yeah, Europe.
Geralt stands out from most western game designs with more wrinkles, and unkept beard instead of stubble or a well trimmed beard showing to the type of person he is (to the point yet lazy on basic tasks) His eyes change colour as a nice to tie to when he was written, showing when he used a spell or a type of potion and his white hair though adding a nice contrast compared to most other brunettes and blondes in gaming is also a part of the plot, showing the pain he had to go through to become a Witcher.
It isn't a lack of diversity, it all ties in with the world, the points of reference the book and in turn the game took from and where the creator is from aka. Poland which is primarily a Caucasian dominated country with less minorities than bigger countries such as America or Britain, for example. Good video, but for talking about character design you missed out a lot on story building and game design.
The pale skin, thin eyes and stark white hair (in a bleak, desaturated dark world with a lot of blood) is meant to be a clear marker for a Witcher, who are seen as freaks in game by the npc's.
I was enjoying the video until you brought in the “Representation” part. As a black man I love representation but that does not make a good character design. A character can be “representation” and still have a terrible uninteresting design.
Example: I love Doomfist’s design because of his calm but boss demeanor, his backstory is great, and his combat is the coolest. At the same time I find Baptiste to be horribly boring and uninspired. His backstory is literally Finn from Star Wars, he’s as interesting as cardboard, and his design is as generic as Soldier 76, except not in a self-aware way.
Both are black representation but IMO vastly different in quality design.
BevelBoyJack yep bap is just black soldier 76
@@mai9181 Bap is a healer though with a burst rifle. Young, not old. How are they similar?
Birdy lol Not necessarily in gameplay mechanics but in visual design. They both fit the generic futuristic soldier silhouette and design, and while their weapons aren’t the same they’re both generic futuristic rifles
Birdy lol think about it both have special leg enhancements both have an aoe that heals if you’re near it both have some special eye wear bap has that stupid one eye thing soldier has tact visor both where apart of a secret organization both are pretty much vigilantes one upholding the law the other taking care of people that have been injured never exposing their actual identities
@@mai9181 Huh, well it does make sense now. I get what you're saying.
Not gonna lie, that shatter was pretty hype. 9:39
Beginning: You could say your view on character design is... subjective. I’ll let myself out.
I nevered played Overwatch, but I liked the designs! 👨🏾🎨
Love the video, but why did you talk about most protagonists being young white males and then show a picture of THE WITCHER. LMAO he's old asf
Yeah, I was confused about that too.
He also is quite divergent from the usual look of a Western hot dude, being that he's old, scars and wrinkles, long while hair and a messy unkept beard. fits the story, his personality and his backstory so what was the point of putting him in?
Because he's literally while, like hair and skin. I assumed he was albino at first xDD
Overwatch is the PERFECT mix of Lore, Character design, and gameplay, dont @ me im right
9:48 this comments made after this time mark are certainly all valid points, i dont disagree that its good to acknolege there are people out there who arent male, white, or straight, but the fact that straight white males are generally bland one dimensional characters like soldier 76, a hero looking out for those around him, or as seen in other games, a self centered villain who cares about nothing but themselves. Generally the status quo for your main character has been limited to a fit, able bodied white man, often straight, however this is altered for soldier 76, as he was relatively recently revealed as gay, is quite boring. As a white kid, trying to find himself its hard to see anyone like me in the media i consume, mostly games, as they all seem to hero archetypes or evil villains. Those who stray from this are often made into jokes or comedic characters. As much as I see diverse and multi layered characters, every person i see in media like me seems to be telling me to be a hero i dont want or need to be. As much as everyone needs their diversity, so do the white males, they can be more than heroes or villains, they can be artistic and funny and interesting. Obviously there are exceptions but this is mostly due to the huge amount of characters who are white and male. I wish there was more diversity not only in games but in media as a whole when it comes to people like me. The recent reveal of sigma has made me overjoyed as its a huge departure from many white male villains, being a victim of his circumstance, exlporing his issues and creating an amazing story, Sigma should be the standard for not only all white male characters but for characters in general.
My opinion on Tf2 vs Overwatch before the main points are presented is that...
I want people to realize that they're two different experiences, but OW DID lift a lot from tf2, and yet is basically fighting its forebear for market share.
It's okay to not everything perfect too much is perfection is unnatural
what
* It's okay that not everything's perfect, too much perfection is unnatural.
@@depressurecooker6372 thankyou for correcting my bad English🙏
@@vivek5420
No problem, man :)
Glad you appreciated it
Do you think you can do a video about the league of legends character designs? I love league and it's lore but there are some characters that just look wack. My favorite are probably Neeko, Nunu and Willump , Kindred, Poppy and Leona
You know one of our initial motivations to create this channel was LOL. We don't play it a lot, but it is fun and some of the characters are really cool. Definitely look forward to a League video from us ;)
The og roster of heroes is pretty flawless imo. However somewhere after Sombra or maybe the hamster, they just stopped trying. Baptiste and Sojourn are a joke when it comes to character design and I feel disapointed because they have cool backstories, but their designs are just giving nothing. Also, Blizzard, there are more black hairstyles out there, than massive dreads tied up in a ponytail, or skinfade, like come on.
0:40 "its gameplay is engaging and *enjoyable"* **Displays Brigitte**
Oh, come on. At this point, she isn't oppressive any more.
RED=DANGER
Mario: *MAMA MIA*
Old Mei and Reinhard desingd are amazing.
is it wrong for me to think soldier:76 is a cool character
oof
ItzDinoSoar Playz Not at all mate. As a soldier main, he’s my personal favorite from the rest. Call it cliche, but soldier 76 is like enjoying a blast from the past.
Nah, his design is just as good as anyone else's. It shows that he is an older soldier, and while it looks generic, it's supposed to. That's his character. Old soldier, no nonsense, just aim and shoot.
Reapers the coolest looking though :(
I wish the uniqueness of character's faces/body types in-game were as varied as they are in the comics and the shorts. A great example of this is Brigette--I personally loooooved her first appearance in the comics, only for her appearance to change in the reinhardt short, and change to be essentially samefaced as the other female characters in the game.
"REEEEEE GURL TOO HOT REEEE"
I'm being oppressed torb is way too sexually appealing and its prejudice
That new summer skin though.... 👌😣
also take in the story. soldier couldn’t go anywhere so he used what he had and reaper wanted to hid himself so he changed himself completely
Honestly would have loved to see mei be her original scary Canadian woman look but I’m fine with the thiccness
Honestly giving a hero a scary appearance would have been a good contrast
Am I the only one that noticed “art direciton”
No, my OCD screamed
I was enjoying the video until you did the representation thing wrong. White is not bad, sexualized is not bad, everyone have the right to be included as well, as long as it make sense in the game.
Also reaper is supposed to look like the grim reaper, that's his whole theme.
Sexualised can be bad, when its pretty much the only thing a character exists for. Characters that are designed with a story in mind can be varied and unique, characters that are sexualised pretty much fall into the pretty slim purview of slim woman with fat ass. Kinda boring and oversaturated.
8:24. OOP SOMEONE BOUTA DIE TODAY
**points a S76 gun at subjectively** _IVE GOT YOU IN MY SIGHT_
i love zarya thank u
Mercy and Brig kinda have the same face. You take them and put their faces over each other and you can see it.
You brought up Widowmaker, Soldier, and Reaper as problematic designs, but I would have brought up D.Va. Soldier 76 is supposed to be familiar and welcoming to players of other shooter games, Reaper is a satirical take on edgy characters (which ironically makes him much less edgy than characters like Roadhog and Genji - dear god, Genji), and Widowmaker is the cast's "femme fatale". D.Va, on the other hand, has no such excuse. Her mech seems overgrown and strangely off-balanxe and weighty for what is supposed to be an agile machine, D.Va's own design is boring, her actual character is irritating and in some people's eyes offensive (seriously, she's a glorified e-girl, this should be offending more people), and her story is nonsensical and unsatisfying (five people to defend a city? RTS players, of all things, to pilot mechs? Ludicrous).
I simply wished they actually used lore to back up the great impressions these designs create. You can understand the basics easily, but theres not much beyond those basics.
If you regret seeing heroes like soldier and widowmaker may be youre not inot diversity as much as you think.
How do you figure?
Not to just turn this into a roast on representation but I feel that there's an issue when you go too far in the opposite direction.
Like for example, complaining about Widowmaker because she's traditionally sexually attractive. It makes a lot more sense for her character to be the way she is than any other character (due to her backstory and her being molded into the true 'femme fatale'. And even if it wasn't... Are traditionally attractive women not allowed to be represented just like every other body type and style?
It's not 'representation' of a sexy character like Widowmaker, this character is not for 'sexy women' to enjoy and relate to, it's ONLY for men's joy. 'Traditionaly attractive'? The f? Are you saying that unrealistic oversexualized women in games are a tradition? This 'body type and style' is porn-like and it represents NO ONE. Well, there IS a lot of terrible porn art with Widowmaker and it says a lot. Her outfit is terrible, especially with that crooked, broken back she has (and no! It's not for male's fantasy, it for StOrY, RIGHT?)
@@Anastasia-gp1hw 1 I didn't mean to cause some major anger in you, and yeah I guess that widowmaker is probably the worst example of it, since I haven't really given the design a proper look (although I still stand by the fact that she was explicitly made into a 'femme fatale' archetype and the fact that her first target was her own husband.)
2: My opinion is just that it annoys me that men are basically just demonized for liking attractive designs. I mean I get the idea that treating women purely as sex objects is bad, but I just can't help but think that if the "social justice warriors" had their way then there wouldn't be any cis white males in fiction EVER, and curvy, attractive women would also basically be entirely banned. This is what I mean by "traditionally attractive women", the thought that because muh social justice we're not allowed to have attractive characters ever. Like... There are ways to make sexualized characters that aren't objectified (See Bayonetta for an example, how she revels in it and always has control of her situation no matter what)
In summary: I do confess that Widowmaker is an absolutely terrible idea, but I will stand at the defense of sexy women in media in general, because they CAN be done well, and so long as designers are designing actually interesting characters I think that their clothing or lack thereof shouldn't matter.
Overwatch has variety to have variety. VARIETY includes a sexy woman. And nobody likes a feminist
@@vegmasit9922 who cares if you don't like feminists? LMAO
Stfu
@@aquamarinerose5405 In a world, where every woman suffers from abuse and objectification (if you are a man - you probably don't notice it because you think it's a "tradition" or "nature", "just how things work" or deny it at all, bc you don't experience it) there should be place for positive discrimination (look it up if you don't know it's a term). I believe the media shouldn't make this world worse and it shouldn't teach men that it's okay that a woman is objectified and that woman's purpose, even in a game is to be f*ckable. If there weren't objectified women in almost every game (idc if there is a rEaSoN for it, like in MGS), we wouldn't be talking now. It's depressing that you understand some things, but make it look like "now we can't have sexy designs" when they are omnipresent. Bayonetta is just the worst example. It's terrible that people make a good female character and she's "empowered" just by her sexiness. She, in fact, doesn't look like a real woman. She is made for men, not women. You wouldn't ever notice it.
10:24 this part didnt age well sadly...😔
I’m just saying, witchered 3 has a white male character because of what history it’s from and the time period
Exactly. Its Polish Folklore if I remember correctly. Surprise surprise, medieval Polish people had white people in their folklore because they're white!
Your use of background music with high pitched noises in it is kind of distracting.
This is so well written; 10/10 on the professionalism and presentation. College professors would be proud
Ever checked out Battleborn and its characters?
This vid really helped me better understand character design, but still struggling on them.
With one of my stories, I'm really struggling, I want it to be about a researcher going to investigate strange activity in a small town and yada yada, werewolves. But idk, I'm just worried people will find it so plain and boring (story wise)
The plot can be bland. Its the details and the characters (characters especially) that make people enjoy it and want more. And the design is also very crucial, but I know next to nothing about it. Just try to have a unique enough design that emulates adventure.
@@vegmasit9922 thank you!
Now that you mention it, I have noticed lots of stuff people are really into that have pretty bland plots, so hopefully I'll survive XD
Update video pwease 🥺
Your part on the reload animations kinda bothered me because it sounded like that part was ripped directly from Extra Credits'/New Frame Plus' video on Overwatch's First Person Animation (czcams.com/video/7Dga-UqdBR8/video.html). No qualms with the rest of the video though. I figure you probably had the same exact talking points because you both watched the GDC Animation Bootcamp talk.
could you talk about plants vs zombies 2's design?
"Art Direciton" lol 2:01
considering THE SHIT SHOW ow is in rn, im staying in the fandom for lore and characters such as Genji. also i love drawing so...
Overwatch foi o primeiro jogo que joguei que me senti reapresentado, Como um Brasileiro, sempre amei a idéia de Ser representado pelo Lúcio! Mesmo que ele ainda pode ter alguns estereótipos...e quase não falar português o jogo inteiro (no jogo dos outros países é claro)
Nobody:
Background music:NYAMEMOHHHHHH NYAME
Is Orisa considered an omnic? She doesn’t look like say Zenyatta. But does that make her not an omnic?
J any sentient robot is considered an omnic
8:58 except doom
you misspelled "direction" lol
Moira and that new Sigmund...guy- look like they're from Battleborn which is very ironic cuz fans bashed the game for a couple of years only to accept characters that look just as oblong in design
Your mic is so quiet omg and then the music becomes so loud after trying to turn it up
While i love Reaper, part of that love is recognizing how GOOFY he is. He IS drab and he IS edgy but that’s part of the appeal to me. He’s like a dumb 07 teenager given superpowers.
tf2 and overwatch r my fav games
Tf2 is a good game i cant say that about overwatch because i have not played it
But tf2 is solid and i assume that overwatch is to
I appreciate the effort you put into this video :,)
Had to squeeze in the pretentiousness at the end.
Such a good video until then.
stfu
@@wyvernhart9180 you gonna cry?
@@enriquecabrera2137 gunna piss his pants maybe? (do you know the meme?)
Yeah, the last part is really "subjective" with the lens of american extremism
Oh god you were doing so well who cares about representation? Representation is only important if it fits with the lore it should be second to everything else for example it wouldnt make sense if widowmaker was an obese woman because while it would be more inclusive why would you want an assassin to be in a poor physical shape do you see my point and besides if we are talking about representation there should still be white and hot heroes in the game because if not these people wouldnt feel included like you wish for people to be if none of these heroes were in the game
Representation isn't about removing white/hot people, it's about including those who have been ignored for a long time and are still somewhat ignored today. While representation to pander is a bad idea, and I do agree that there are times where it needs to make sense, like obese Widowmaker, ultimately it would be nice to show variety in our media instead of ignoring very real bits and people of our world.
The funny thing is that he said that.
@@spacewargamer4181 Time stamp me and sure
Steven, got it? How are minorities ignored today? If anything, everyone is overly pandering to minorities and push the “we don’t want straight white males!!!” agenda. I could care less whether there was diversity or not in games, race, sex, orientation, just as long as it isn’t shoved in our face. Look at the massive backlash of battlefield v, with a female lead role IN WW2. This doesnt mean gamers are sexist, it just doesn’t make any sense from the lore perspective and it’s obvious activision is just pandering to the sjw movement. Now compare it to successful games that incorporate women like Zelda bayonetta Metroid they don’t shove it in your face and gamers enjoy. I do think overwatch does a good job of this as often times I couldn’t care less of the appearance and sex of who I’m playing
Idc about character design i would prefer a box as a character.
we have bastion
Nice video. The secret of overwatch is related to the silhouette imo, they are all so iconic. Still, blizzard is not infallible, Baptiste is an abortion design wise.
Sombra❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️😍😍😍😍😍
HEY. Bulletstom is amazing, just play it, it's nothing like cod or battlefield
what about tf2? 👀
Asriel tr oh we will definitely make a TF2 video don’t you worry
i had a small heart attack-
It's Dick Blick not Blick Art
Dad is that you.