Why Was Mars Insight Launched From California?
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- čas přidán 6. 05. 2018
- Mars Insight was the first Mars mission launched from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California, while previous Mars missions have generally launched from Florida. The reason this is possible is because the original mission design required a higher than usual inclination parking orbit. This reduced the advantage which Florida usually gets from the rotation of the earth, which meant that the same launch vehicle design could achieve the trajectory from either location. This lead the designers to go with California because it has less rocket activity.
Includes animations from NASA, Kerbal Space Program and Universe Sandbox - Věda a technologie
I'm living under a space rock with a scott manley periscope.
Seriously, if it's not on this channel i'd probably never hear about it.
bami2 dito
bami2 you had the perfect opportunity to say you were living under an asteroid
i guess space rock and asteroid are similar..
"It's not like Kerbal Space Program, where you can just throw something into an approximate orbit and make it up with the copious amounts of spare delta-v you have".
Why do I feel like I'm being singled out by this statement? Have you got a camera mounted behind me?
I swear that really was a Eeloo mission, and I intended to go there, and it wasn't just blind luck that there was a transfer window when I launched my Mun mission!
Scott Manley call me smart ** blushes**
Poop
I heard he's an animal on bed.
What is this comment?
There was an attempt to bold the comment
4:53 "ET Disposal Problem" i thought that was confidential
And for the people who don't have a sense of humor... yes, we already know it means External Tank.
I'm actually curious what is the problem with the disposal of the external tank
I would assume the problem is possible impact in populated areas
@@Gibson99 How ridiculous. E.T. stands for External Tank.
It launched at VAFB so I could go out on my roof at 4:05am and see this tiny airplane looking dot that appeared about like any of the many planes taking off from LAX or John Wayne and heading South. It got about 3 times larger than any plane appears across the night sky. Upon it's closest approach it looked like it was just about to be high enough to peak through into the glow of the Sun through the edge of the atmosphere right as it was about level with my house/angled view towards the ocean in San Clemente (last little town in South Orange County). That's when the first stage burn completed. Unfortunately I couldn't see anything after that. The rocket went just behind a bit of marine layer/cloud just off the coast and despite it being clear just a few degrees further and I couldn't see anything again after that.
It wasn't much to see, but I was thrilled. As a partially disabled gimp I've barely left the house in 4 years for anything but doctors and physical therapy. I never imagined I'd be able to catch a glimpse of such bleeding edge Science first hand.
I was so bummed back in December when I found out about the Iridium evening launch that everyone was talking about around Los Angeles. I had the Flu and was stuck in bed hearing about it after the fact. So happy I caught this one ;-))
-Jake
same here man. watched it from my back yard in anaheim, but it was mostly just an orange dot streaking across the sky. for a few seconds the exhaust plume started to spread out but then stage sep and i also lost sight of it after that.
Me and my nephews watched it from my front yard in the High Desert. Truly awesome!
Orbital mechanics does my head in, but it is still amazing how all the math and physics come together to make all this possible.
It’s very hard to understand, unless you play KSP. I play a 2D knock off(SimpleRockets) so all of the 3D stuff fries my brain. I only know what’s going on when it is a perfect polar orbit.
Well, I have good spatial awareness having worked with 3D graphics and programming for a couple of decades - if the equations work in 2D then it isn't too much of a leap to add another dimension, but it's the precision they get that amazes me.
They can even take into account time dilation and the fact that a body's gravitational attraction acts on where it was and not where it is due to gravity also being limited to the speed of light.
Ok Scott, you won, I'm starting KSP.
KSP has us spoilt with zero tilt bodies. We need KSP 2… now with axial tilt.
Eh, they'll never make a hardcore space sim like that because then they'd have to design a UI to actually present information and that just wouldn't be "approachable".
I think the KSP UI is actually quite good at presenting complicated information about as approchably as it can be made. I'm sure it could be tweaked to be even better, and to incorporate the added complexity of axial tilt. :)
If they do make the version you're thinking of, itd likely have a small base. Probably 90+% Vet KSP players. The only new players would be those not frightened a near vertical learning curve. Even vanilla ksp has a pretty steep learning curve unless you take a look at Scott's beginner series.
But still. I'm sure none of us predicted just a couple years ago how big ksp would become today, so who knows. A hyperreal vanilla ksp 2 probably has a large enough base. Space travel, news, science, etc. is becoming more mainstream, after all.
Too bad it can't be done already. That said, modpacks like RSS tilt all the orbits to simulate Earth's tilt, thus messing up the rest of the planet's tilt.
I have a final this Thursday in orbital mechanics and I thought I would procrastinate a little and watch this video. Jokes on me I actually learned some stuff from this video that will be on the exam.
Did you pass??
Great mission!
A shame they didn't have a nav ball to assist them when launching their rocket.
At least they have computers to help them, not to mention hundreds of brilliant minds.
Justin Y. Dude you have really good taste bionic pig, this guy, ksp, Cody's lab, I feel like you're a bot tho
Justin Y. U are literally everywhere!
hello fellow asian
Justin Y. The Saturn v had a nav ball
Always liked your long detailed explanations.
Nicely Done Scott. Hard to believe years ago (pre-Kerbal) they did these calculations on slide rules and still managed to hit the rocks they were aiming for.
Thanks Scott, I had been wondering about this since the launch!
Thank you so much for this vid - made many things clearer!
Apparently I've been living under a space rock. I hadn't heard about this launch. Very cool. Thanks again Scott for your very educational videos.
Thanks for the explanation!!!
Hi Scott, great video as always! What are the orbit planning tools you mention in the video? Thank you, fly safe ;)
I like these little informational videos about interesting recent/upcoming launches. Will you do one about the debut of SpaceX's new Block 5 Falcon 9, currently scheduled for later this week?
I have been waiting for this video
Good explanation. Thanks.
Hi Scott, I was wondering if you could do a video on docking with a surface station! A mission in my mission control said to build a surface station on Minmus, and one of the requirements was that it had a docking port, so I thought I'll build it in two parts. Turns out that's harder than I thought...
There is a question I’d like you to answer, please. If the Apollo F1 rocket engine is the most powerful ever, why is no longer in use by the space industry ? Like very much your videos and the way you made accessible to normal people, like me.
Carlos
Why is the F1 no longer used? There is no need for what was 1950s technology - the Saturn 5 was made possible because the US Air Force already had a big engine that had, up to the time of the Apollo programme, no rocket big enough to use it in. Having the F1 available saved NASA a lot of time that would have been otherwise spent in developing a big engine, or designing some other kind of mission profile that involved a smaller rocket, such as the Saturn 1B.
Today's rockets use engines that are more efficient than the F1. As well, payload and mission requirements are less than those of the Moon landings. The new heavy-lift rocket under development - SLS - uses more modern, Shuttle-derived engines, both solid and liquid-propelled. It is planned as a multi-role booster, to launch payloads and crews to the Moon and later to Mars.
The Apollo programme was ground-breaking in more ways than one and the rockets used have earned their place in the spaceflight hall of fame, but old technology rarely has a place in the modern era. Leave the Saturn 5s and the engines that propelled them in museums, where people like me can look at them and say "holy shit!" (What I said the first time I saw one).
As a footnote: the Soviet-era RD-170 engine was more powerful than the F1. It was designed and built for the Energia heavy-lift booster, but only two boosters ever flew, the second of which launched the Buran Space shuttle.
If memory serves, there’s a video floating around CZcams that answers this question. But if not, I’ll offer this conjecture.
Our early space devices were designed significantly with manual calculation and fabricated by hand from purpose built parts. The entire process of engineering and manufacturing has changed since the 50/60/70’s. We use CAD/CAE software for design, computerized fabrication tools for manufacturing, and test automation software for QA. These older designs could be “imported” into modern design/fab/test tools; however the result would merely be automation of designs that are half a century old. It just doesn’t make sense.
4:27 "And I'm sure by now you know that the US has two launch sites."
_Sobs in Virginian._
Thanks for making this video. Please make video about orbital alignment and how we used it to do the Voyager Grand Tour. I also want to know if similar event would occur in the near future. Interplanetary Superhighway and the case of ISEE-3 are also interesting.
Best channel ever!
According to Bruce Banerdt (InSight PI) who said this on Planetary Radio: InSight is essentially the Pheonix lander slightly modified with completely different sensors/tools. Pheonix launched on a Delta II, but now as the Delta II retired, the Atlas V was the smallest option(it also used the smallest configuration(the 4 0 1 config.)). Thus extra dv is also there(the Atlas V has about twice the capacity compared to the Delta II).
Delta II is still flying but has only one launch left before retirement, but only VAFB has the hardware to launch the Delta II now, KSC has retired it.
I'm just quoting from the show: www.planetary.org/multimedia/planetary-radio/show/2018/0502-bruce-banerdt-insight.html At around 1:02:10 it starts.
You know you have played too much KSP when you read the acronym KSC and Kennedy Space Centre is the second option in the list of possible meanings.
"It is the Pheonix lander slightly modified", "Pheonix launched" - Was that before or after the modification that modified the spelling from Phoenix to Pheonix?
Where do I get some of those sample "trajectory planning" documents? I'd like to see what "all considerations" are, specifically for a celestial body landing or close.
Minor typo at 5:20. You have DLA, DLA, and C3. It should be DLA, RLA, and C3.
Is that RLA, or RALA? (Considering "Right Ascension o' Launch Azimuth", that'd be my guess, but perhaps some old software lacked eTLA support back in the day.)
its RLA - look at the orange table header
Scott I've tweeted Tory Bruno of ULA many times he loves your stuff. So do I. The USA also has Wallops which has the capability to launch to the ISS 51.6° Orbit into Descending Node, KSC Ascending Node only.
doesn't launching from vanderburg also gives you a bigger window to change the coordinates of the asymptote ? if the inclination is too wrong you can launch from a polar orbit and have more control over the inclination and vice versa.
Hey Scott what's your outro music? Good stuff, keep it up.
It would be cool if you could make a video about those real trajectory planning tools! :)
We don’t get much coverage about these things in the UK either, this is where I heard it first!
Great, Scott! I actually was under a space rock. Could you please share the citation on the paper you reference at 7:30? Thanks.
Very informative, Scott. NASA and JPL would do themselves a PR favor by hiring you to work on some of their video releases.
Dear Scott, the Insight will be landing tomorrow, as you most certainly know. I would love to see your update explanation and insights ;) on this mission.
snark, snark.. I live under a rock and it ain't bad! hey we were talking about this at the last rock party... damn I did follow everything you said (Because I do live under a rock) but what I did understand was very interesting.. and I love you new york accent...
could you explain the cubesats launched on this mission?
link to the article at the end of the video?? thanks
never stop your rambling, its so educational and i'm a physics nerd. thanks Scott for the hours and hours of entertainment. Earth is a big space rock isn't it and i'm from New Zealand, so do I live under a space rock?
How long will it take to reach mars,the Insight i mean and what is its propulsion system?
so.. what ever happened to galileo conquest? im still waiting for that next ep you talk about 6 months ago
ksp may have it's flaws but damn it's great for explaining basic spaceflight visually and tangibly
I feel like I should have at least an Associate's Degree in Orbital Mechanics after watching that lol
Did you come down for the launch Scott? We had "The Martian" playing at my hangar, the airport viewing location had around 3,500 people for the public viewing. The marine layer was a bummer, but the sound was still awesome! :)
I saw the way the weather was going and decided against taking the drive.
Scott, SpaceX has a launch coming up on Saturday the 19th at 1pm, they are usually at the Lompoc Airport if you want to join us :)
Why don’t you give links to the sources of the papers you reference?
What happened to Kerbal Engineer Redux?
Where is that NASA paper with details of the orbits and journey?
I thought someone in Wikipedia mistaken for its launch site at Vandenberg instead Cape Canaveral when i first read about it. Turns out its not 😅
I don't think Scott rambles at all. I enjoy the detail he gives. 👍
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the upcoming launch site that SpaceX is building in Brownsville, TX. It seems to me that it could have the benefits of both Vandenberg and Florida.
I could easily be wrong, but although it could hit the same inclinations, I don't think it will have as many launch opportunities as Cape Canaveral, since you can only launch southerly from the Texas coast, whereas you can launch both northerly and southerly from the Florida coast
Very true Jay. I hadn't considered that SpaceX flies north from Florida.
Here's what I don't get - Mars' orbital inclination is only 1.85 degrees relative to the plan of Earth's orbit (the ecliptic). Does InSight's orbit ever get "flattened" so that its heliocentric orbit is in the same plane as Mars or is the spacecraft's heliocentric orbit also at a high inclination? It would seem costly to perform a burn to flatten the orbit, but having looked at the mission's paper apparently that's what it did.
What’s the name of the track you play at the end?
It's called "Don't be such a lazy bum, look up the bloody artist's name, and spend some time finding out for yourself" by Tigoolio.
4:43 This is a space shuttle diagram. (ET: External Tank, SRB: Solid Rocket Booster) A Delta 4, Atlas 5, or Falcon 9 might have a wider arc of launching.
Scott “The Man” Manly has spoken!
Bennu there, done that.
LOL
i landed my clone of insight in ksp yesterday on duna. hate how the point of control is never the probe so when i jettison the heat shield, the probe also drops out with it without me controlling it
control from here?
Sneaky1ne it was set as control from here. Yet when the heat shield was jettison, the lander also went with it. Not attached to the decupler like its supposed to.
!challenge launch from kerbin and make the rocket fly really near the moun (really close 50 meter's) the trajectory for the moon should be ramming the rocket in the side but you are fast enough till escaping so it doesn't happen I would really like to see that and how you would describe the forces that are in it for play ;) and what actually could happen in real life if it were to happen XD nonetheless I don't hope it would happen in the near future or has it ?
1:00 Is this a public website where you can track launches?? What is it?
I have been wondering that since I saw it during the Insight launch. I got excited when I saw it hear too because I thought it might be listed in the video description but is not. Great video none the less but would love if these videos could try and list what tools/resources are used.
How much spare Delta v so real rockets and missions have?
It's worth noting that autumn and spring are local seasons and thus different times of year depending on where you live, if you're in the southern hemisphere during autumn the north pole would be away from the earth, with spring it would be closer.
Yes, although astronomers refer to the spring and autumnal equinoxes based on northern hemisphere.
It makes sense to have a universal standard/system (such as GMT time), however as an outsider unaware of its existence I was a little bit confused and then amused.
Thanks for clarifying =)
I live on a space rock, so, from a certain point of view, I do live under a space rock
from a certain point of view, I live on the side of a space rock
from a certain point of view, the space rock lives under me
I could be "under a space rock", depending on what your frame of reference is...
I need to build my PC so I can play KSP
I don't know, but I'm sure you'll tell me Scott :)
I'd like to see a graphic of the path followed as the Mars InSight went from polar orbit to Earth escape trajectory, but I understand that it could be difficult to model. As for the fog layer over the California coast, it did make for an interesting photo of the launch from 50 miles north. I've photographed a lot of Vandenberg launches and almost all have gone to the right after liftoff. www.skyandtelescope.com/online-gallery/mars-insight-launch/
I wonder if the rover/lander carried the chip with people's names on it like the origanal mission called for?
I'm a little bit confused. Given the tilt of the earth relative to its orbital plane (23.4°), plus the inclination of Mars' orbit relative to Earth's orbit (1.9°), the maximum inclination of Mars' orbit relative to Earth''s equator should be about 24.3°. So to match orbital inclinations with Mars and get on a maximally efficient Martian transfer orbit, I would guess that the maximum inclination necessary would be 24.3°. So why does this particular Martian transfer orbit need such a high inclination? Where does the declination of launch quoted in this video (-51.2°) come from?
You have to subtract out the velocity vector of the earth first. If you have a near earth asteroid that's got same period as the earth but inclined by 1.9 degree that requires an impulse normal to the plane of the orbit of about 1km/sec - essentially straight up - so even small inclination changes can require high DLA's.
Ahhhh okay that makes sense. Thank you very much! I just went back and re-watched this video and realized that you mentioned the same thing around the 6:30 mark.
Typo at 5:17, Second DLA should be RLA
So I guess same theory applies to upcoming DART mission, right?
"Not infinity but close enough." - Poetic!
Have you considered doing a video about the US-USSR race to Mars? Reading through the various Wiki articles about the repeated attempts and failures by both countries gives the impression that there's a thrilling story hidden in there.
Mars Insight got away! Quick, send something after it to catch it!
I'm living ON a space rock ;)
I wish I could live under a space rock!
Thanks for being serious and not cringey like everyday astronaut. :) Great video.
Where do we go to take a look at that paper?
trs.jpl.nasa.gov/bitstream/handle/2014/45459/14-0444_A1b.pdf
Thanks!
You cant live under a space rock, because there is no down in space 🙃
Just got out from living under a rock. Did I miss anything ?
I'm living under a space rock... :D
I R smart!
But anyway, thank you for the more complete explanation.
Asimtotes is my favorite word now or whatever it's spelled.
Asymptote.
Asymptote - apparently chrome doesn't know how to spell it. www.mathsisfun.com/algebra/asymptote.html
"or whatever it's spelled" - That is not how "I realise I don't know but I can't be fucking arsed to spend three seconds on Google to find out" is spelled.
I must be living under a space rock
I am living under a space rock.
"Copius amounts of delta v"
Sounds like my kerbal experience all right :)
Dear Scott: Why is there a helicopter on it’s way to Mars in stead of a quadrucopter?
If that space rock is on Mars, you are going to be aware pretty soon, when Insight lands on top of your little rock house!
Brant Wedel) Well you have a few months to move, so there’s that
Asamtoad? How do you spell that?
Asanode?
Asymptote en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymptote
Scott Manley Thank you. Normally I do get English spelling but man this word is weird.
Okay here's my question: Why not just launch a rocket with a probe stuck in the fairing and just 'wait' for the transition period? I mean, sure you might have 'orbital correction burns', but I'm talking about 'launch rocket, put into stable orbit for a period of time, THEN send off to mission x-y-z'?
Kookee2k2 that’s the thing, a stable orbit is hard to achieve. Station keeping fuel amounts would be absurd if you want a low orbit. If there isn’t a low orbit, then you waste dv because it’s less efficient to leave earth, the Oberth effect. And considering mars windows (assuming we’re talking mars missions happen around every 2 years) that’s a lot of fuel either way
Ya i saw it on news.
Did anyone else submit their name to the microchip?
At military training so pretty much the same thing
And landed last week
Why was insight was launch from US?
ULA ULA!!
Manly Scott
He said I'm smart
That's right, folks. One bad weld cost NASA a cool $150 million.
Atlas 551: launches satellite to LEO
Atlas 401: sends an entire Martian lander
Makes no sense to me