@@robinsss It was all entertainment at the end of the day. Most of those rappers were just playing roles/characters with all that gangster and militant revolutionary stuff.
@@NTakaNiggatron yes but this style of hip hop came from the young black community or bubbled up from the underground because of that group it wasn't created by the record labels it came from the people
What brilliant black minds! Still, I can understand Crouch's point. He was an intellectual heavyweight with whom I often disagreed but to whom I enjoyed listening.
Yes, THIS! I many not always agree with Stanley Crouch (and on many occasions I don't), but i am genuinely interested in his point of view as a...shall we say...musical conservative. Just because he offers a different perspective than me, and is able to articulate it in a way that keeps my attention. I don't feel the need to stand at the guard rails-so to speak-to defend "the faith" against his supposed encroachment (or should I say, enCROUCHment :-) ). Or to come back at him like some dragon to be slayed, or hostile foreign power to be deposed. Right before I watched this video. I checked out another clip which showed him and James Mtume in a musical debate. And it was almost a complete waste of my time, because as much as I agreed with Mtume (and his fans in the audience) on his very well-argued points, I really wanted Crouch to have equal time to explain his position, and there was really no way the room was gonna give him that. The title of the the video was, of course, "Composer James Mtume destroys Jazz critic Stanley Crouch" *eye roll*. And of course the title was befitting, because obviously, that's what everyone in the place was there to do. So I really like an appreciate the way this discussion was run, and everyone's ability to disagree in a way that allows the debate to stay interesting and stimulating.
Mr. Crouch (peace be upon you) you are correct "if they could sing they would". That's why they're not even rapping any more...they sing the same cadence and use autotune to a redundant and played out drill trap 32nd triplets beat ....Mr. Crouch you hit it on the nail and these two bozos couldn't see that in the 90's....fast forward to the now and Mr. Crouch was never lying... Lets face it Hip Hop is in the way these days and simply flooded with talentless beings out for a money grab and nothing to offer. Its the snowman's (aka con) cult and it always has been.
Bs. The melodic rap is the wave right now but even back then during the time this interview was conducted you still had rappers who had actual singing ability but still chose to rap such as Lauryn Hill, half of New Edition, Queen Latifah, and DV Alias Khryst to name a profound few. People didn’t rap because they couldn’t do anything else, they rapped because *for them* that was the ultimate expression. Nowadays you even have jazz musicians who rap such as trumpeters Russell Gunn and Maurice Brown, Saxophonists Soweto Kinch and Mike Phillips, and many others.
@@gooncrusha6638 fanatic response, hmmm… I’m not enough of a fan of any of them to offer anything of a “fanatic” response and I actually agree with much of Crouch’s criticism towards hip hop. He is however empirically wrong about rappers rapping because they can’t sing. And auto tune and the trap garbage aside you have artists out here who sing well and still rap or as I pointed out even play instruments and still rap. That and that alone is what I’m saying. Everything else, he’s on point about.
41:05 Charlie Parker hurt his back in a car accident in the 30s. In the hospital, they gave him morphine for the pain. After his release, he got into smack to self-medicate. I don't think it could in any way be chalked up to "the confusion of racism". I think he got hooked for the same reason any number of people get hooked. Because heroin is a hell of a drug.
I wonder what the discussion would look like in todays era of rap music. I wonder if any of those opponents have change their views? It would be absolutely disingenuous by those opponents of Stanley to defend rap music today.
Its funny. Crouch went after Public Enemy in the early 90s for their politics, but if one listens to any Chuck D interview in the last decade, he literally comes off sounding like Crouch.
Ian Henderson You’re so right... how ironic. Mr Crouch was so ahead of his time. Wish he was still vocal in the community. Very blunt and straight to the point.
Disagree. What could be stated is that the promotion of negative Rap music on mainstream platforms has pushed positive activist artists to the margins. Kendrick Lamar, J. Cole, Sa-Roc, Lupe Fiasco and a few others have popular success but the worst tops the charts. Stanley Grouch would still be the hard-headed fool stuck in antiquated thinking as always.
@@reimourrpower9357 He was right: few rap artists were 'artists', and none were musicians. It was an 'art', but confined to a handful, as all true art is. Garbage which became popular was a cultural insult to black people.
@@MrResearcher122 Somewhat disagree. For one, *Art* is subjective. Period. Secondly, there is an ABUNDANCE of this ''true art'' that exists, that is being purposely overshadowed by exploitative and stereotypical examples.
Crouch's logic is faulty through and through, and he's able to throw people off his trail by being demonstrably dismissive of rap music. Rap is crap by his estimation, but he's makes a living off of critiquing it.
70% of black children are born to a single mother today. So much for condoms being cool. Hip hop is mostly noise. Gun shots to be exact. Miss Piggy’s rap was horrible!
RIP Stanley Crouch.
He may seem to come off as a hatin ass uncle in this discussion, but he kept it 100.
he was quite delusional if he didn't think that the lyrics of rap were not a statement from young black Americans
@@robinsss It was all entertainment at the end of the day. Most of those rappers were just playing roles/characters with all that gangster and militant revolutionary stuff.
@@NTakaNiggatron yes
but this style of hip hop came from the young black community or bubbled up from the underground because of that group
it wasn't created by the record labels
it came from the people
This best review ever.
Thank you
What brilliant black minds! Still, I can understand Crouch's point. He was an intellectual heavyweight with whom I often disagreed but to whom I enjoyed listening.
Yes, THIS! I many not always agree with Stanley Crouch (and on many occasions I don't), but i am genuinely interested in his point of view as a...shall we say...musical conservative. Just because he offers a different perspective than me, and is able to articulate it in a way that keeps my attention. I don't feel the need to stand at the guard rails-so to speak-to defend "the faith" against his supposed encroachment (or should I say, enCROUCHment :-) ). Or to come back at him like some dragon to be slayed, or hostile foreign power to be deposed. Right before I watched this video. I checked out another clip which showed him and James Mtume in a musical debate. And it was almost a complete waste of my time, because as much as I agreed with Mtume (and his fans in the audience) on his very well-argued points, I really wanted Crouch to have equal time to explain his position, and there was really no way the room was gonna give him that. The title of the the video was, of course, "Composer James Mtume destroys Jazz critic Stanley Crouch" *eye roll*. And of course the title was befitting, because obviously, that's what everyone in the place was there to do.
So I really like an appreciate the way this discussion was run, and everyone's ability to disagree in a way that allows the debate to stay interesting and stimulating.
me too, but I didn't like him as a person for what he said. I found him very interesting and brilliant.
16:21 Tell 'em Crouch.
That was such an erroneous statement. A rapper is a vocal percussionist, the same way a singer is a vocal melodist.
@@sereroserera367thank you 💯💯
Mr. Crouch (peace be upon you) you are correct "if they could sing they would". That's why they're not even rapping any more...they sing the same cadence and use autotune to a redundant and played out drill trap 32nd triplets beat ....Mr. Crouch you hit it on the nail and these two bozos couldn't see that in the 90's....fast forward to the now and Mr. Crouch was never lying... Lets face it Hip Hop is in the way these days and simply flooded with talentless beings out for a money grab and nothing to offer. Its the snowman's (aka con) cult and it always has been.
Bs. The melodic rap is the wave right now but even back then during the time this interview was conducted you still had rappers who had actual singing ability but still chose to rap such as Lauryn Hill, half of New Edition, Queen Latifah, and DV Alias Khryst to name a profound few. People didn’t rap because they couldn’t do anything else, they rapped because *for them* that was the ultimate expression. Nowadays you even have jazz musicians who rap such as trumpeters Russell Gunn and Maurice Brown, Saxophonists Soweto Kinch and Mike Phillips, and many others.
Weak fanatic response... Stanley's argument stands because of AUTOTUNE....and so much more
@@gooncrusha6638 fanatic response, hmmm… I’m not enough of a fan of any of them to offer anything of a “fanatic” response and I actually agree with much of Crouch’s criticism towards hip hop.
He is however empirically wrong about rappers rapping because they can’t sing. And auto tune and the trap garbage aside you have artists out here who sing well and still rap or as I pointed out even play instruments and still rap. That and that alone is what I’m saying. Everything else, he’s on point about.
Good discussion.
41:05 Charlie Parker hurt his back in a car accident in the 30s. In the hospital, they gave him morphine for the pain. After his release, he got into smack to self-medicate. I don't think it could in any way be chalked up to "the confusion of racism". I think he got hooked for the same reason any number of people get hooked. Because heroin is a hell of a drug.
54:30.....truth
Harry Allen crushing it, yass
If Stanley Crouch hates rappers so much, why he is wearing Biggies sweater? ;-)
Cream Coogis, I do my duty...
Read Ishmael Reeds article on Stanley Crouch.
www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/16/the-tragedy-of-stanley-crouch/
www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/16/the-tragedy-of-stanley-crouch/
Biggie swagger jacked Crouch and Cosby....they were rocking Coogi when he was hangin' Word Up posters on his wall
While this is from a few years before Biggie came out, it’s hella funny nonetheless 😂😂😂
Stanley is astounding! How someone can be so informed and ignorant simultaneously is incredible!
I wonder what the discussion would look like in todays era of rap music. I wonder if any of those opponents have change their views? It would be absolutely disingenuous by those opponents of Stanley to defend rap music today.
Its funny. Crouch went after Public Enemy in the early 90s for their politics, but if one listens to any Chuck D interview in the last decade, he literally comes off sounding like Crouch.
Ian Henderson You’re so right... how ironic. Mr Crouch was so ahead of his time. Wish he was still vocal in the community. Very blunt and straight to the point.
Disagree. What could be stated is that the promotion of negative Rap music on mainstream platforms has pushed positive activist artists to the margins. Kendrick Lamar, J. Cole, Sa-Roc, Lupe Fiasco and a few others have popular success but the worst tops the charts. Stanley Grouch would still be the hard-headed fool stuck in antiquated thinking as always.
@@reimourrpower9357 He was right: few rap artists were 'artists', and none were musicians. It was an 'art', but confined to a handful, as all true art is. Garbage which became popular was a cultural insult to black people.
@@MrResearcher122 Somewhat disagree. For one, *Art* is subjective. Period. Secondly, there is an ABUNDANCE of this ''true art'' that exists, that is being purposely overshadowed by exploitative and stereotypical examples.
STANLEY CROUCH dont know he is wearing a sweater that looks a lot similar to what BIGGIE SMALLS use to wear himself, lol
Look who bought his tap shoes it's grouch😅
Crouch's logic is faulty through and through, and he's able to throw people off his trail by being demonstrably dismissive of rap music. Rap is crap by his estimation, but he's makes a living off of critiquing it.
STANLEY IN THE END WAS 10000000% CORRECT LOOK WHAT THIS HORRIBLE COON MUSIC HAS DONE AND BECOME
Crouch was quite delusional if he didn't think that the lyrics of rap were not a statement from young black Americans
These dimwits are not worthy of the intellectual heavyweight and champion Stanley Crouch.
Hey black people, why not try being just people?
look who's talkin
Rap is crap simple no playing musicians ,
Nowadays there are world class jazz musicians who also rap.
70% of black children are born to a single mother today. So much for condoms being cool.
Hip hop is mostly noise. Gun shots to be exact.
Miss Piggy’s rap was horrible!