The STRONGEST Bugs of Warhammer, Destiny & Starcraft
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- čas přidán 12. 03. 2024
- Delve into the depths of a crickety-slimey space series as we investigate the Tyranids from Warhmmer 40k, the Zerg from Starcraft and the Hive of Destiny--while also deciding which are the strongest above them.
(For legal reasons no Carmines were killed in the making of this video).
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Something I want to mention is that you said Oryx couldn't take the Tyranids because of their Hivemind but I would disagree with that statement because of the Vex. The Vex are also a hivemind intelligence that have proven to be susceptible to becoming Taken, the only difference between them is that individual Vex collectives can disagree with one another, but that doesn't remove the fact that the act of Taking is to force one's own will upon their victim, transforming them into a vessel of their own dominance, the individual Tyranid that was Taken would become cut off from the Hivemind, becoming a vessel for the will of their new master.
It doesn’t need to be a hive mind(the vex are not hive minds either) all they need is a will
Funny you think vex is aleast a 0,1% ass powefull that the hivemind
Remember Quria who is taken
@@LostEnding_how many times did you just check out when Zavala said "the vex hive mind"🤣
@@AoeUshida the sol divisive quite literally serves the witness none of the other vex do… it’s not hard to comprehend when the game tells you multiple that the vex are not a hive mind. You can’t have a hive mind with 2 different and opposing philosophy’s. During one of the seasons this is stated. “Osiris noted that Vex in the Infinite Forest deemed 'aberrant', because of how their thinking went against the rest of the consensus, would be quarantined from the rest of the Vex and destroyed.”So no the vex are not a hive mind.
Just gonna say this, Oryx can still take Vex despite them being not only part of a hive mind, but technically just a bunch of microscopic organisms. If he's able to Take the Vex, he's definitely able to Take the Tyranids.
I know I'm late and the Tyranids have been declared victors however I will say these things
1: The vex are the most comperable thing in the destiny universe to the Tyranids, Oryx can take them and they are extremely similar stripping the planets of biomass to meet the pattern
2: The sword logic actively empowers hive who believe in it and follow it. So Hive that kill weaker tyranids rank up become stronger and we'd get an orcs vs Tyranids situtation with a bunch of ascendant hive
3: there is innumerable hive already they in total have caused more known extinctions than the tyranids destroying species solar systems at a time and killing wish dragons
4: If we are doing hive at their strongest strongest strongest Oryx has a pet wish dragon.
I'm probably underestimating them cause Tyranids are probably the faction I know the least about in 40k, but one thing to note about the hive is that their legions would probably get unbelievably stronger from having an unending source of cannon fodder, since every enemy they kill litterally helps them grow. Also, there's Xivu Arath who litterally gets stronger any time there is conflict ANYWHERE in the universe. Her being in the 40k universe would probably unironically make her as powerful as Khorne himself. There's also the fact that any being in the Destiny universe can make a throne world, granted they are strong enough and follow the sword logic Like Mara Sov and the Mindbender, not just hive gods. In this scenario, there'd likely be a ton of ascendent hive running around.
Yeah, Xivu is an enemy who is basically impossible to fight against traditionally, cause you'll only ever be empowering her.
Lmao you are very much underestimating the Tyranids. They are arguably the number one threat to all of the factions in 40k right now.
Tyrannid swarms adapt from being killed, having become immune to many toxins and developed gills or laser reflective carapaces depending on the battle space. Tyrannids also consume the corpses of their enemies and their own fallen in order to reproduce and gain their enemies intelligence.
They also have a particular ability to disrupt magical abilities.
Sorry for the two month late reply. Tyranids are extremely adaptable. I assume you are aware of the life eater virus? The imperiums favoured method of exterminatus. The reason it’s not used on the nids because it would only work once… and that’s a planet killing weapon… there are many problems that come with fighting nids
@@greatwhitnorth they don't have ftl if I'm not mistaken, it puts them at such a colossal disadvantage against the hive it's not even funny.
Three things are misunderstood here and give the Tyranid a greater edge.
1: They are a gestalt conscience - this is established lore. So no singular thing to kill to win. (You would need to kill all their bioships to win, every single hive fleet and tendril, and possibly in several galaxies and in the void between as well)
2: The shadow in the warp isn't a lack of psychic power. Its the overwhelming nature of the Tyranid hive mind moving closer to a target. Its basically a static white noise that grows in intensity as a hive fleet gets closer, causing pain and distress to psykers and weakening or even sending demons back into the warp. Tyranids can also travel in and use the warp, but very rarely do, instead opting to use their own means of FTL travel. So I don't think the dieties would be able to hide for ever.
3: The Tyranids consume everything on a planet that is or can be used as biomass. This includes metals and minerals from the crust, all the oceans and the atmosphere. They can consume lifeless worlds, gas giants and asteriods - its just that they are after biomass because it means they get access to new genetic material and also in the process they kill off potential threats to themselves.
I now know more about these bug things than I do about my own world.
Im pretty sure the tyranids do not have ftl, their specialize bioships are capable of incredible speed but sublight, that is one of the reasons they havent consume most of the imperium, warp travel is simply much faster. But what is true is that the concience of the hive is inposible to destroy, probably you would have to kill every single tyranid to do it. But it is true that the lost of higher tyranids bioforms is dangerous for their coordination, beacuse yes each individual tyranid warrior is extremly dangerous, but if they lack coordination is much easier to deal with them.
@@martinnavarrete5279 No them having FTL has been part of the lore since second or third edition. They (up until 10'th ed) only relied on real space warping through gravitic means using a bioship called a Narvhal that can lock onto starsystems over vast distances and by unknown means use a target planets own gravity to create a "funnel" in realspace through which the Hive fleet will then travel. This is slower than warp - but FTL. It has several effects though, mostly pretty dire ones for the targeted planet that will start to experience earth quakes and vulcanic eruptions as the fleet draws closer. The last stretch of the way is however done at sub-light speed as the nids kind of "glide" to their target. They are also almost undetectable during travel up until the very last distance before they arrive as they don't use the warp. They can't use the Narhval inside of a gravity well though, but must move a bit away from planets as the proximity to a gravity well makes it impossible for the Narvhal to locate a new target due to interference. In 10'th it has also been said that they can use the warp - but for unknown reasons have only ever done so once from what Im told. So that might just be a BL author that doesn't know Tyranid lore.
Tyranids FTL actually helps demonstrate their intelligence, what they do is a hive fleet will bend space and reality itself, travel the first 90% of the way to the target, and then simply fly towards the target world just below lightspeed. They do this, in case when they manifest inside the planet itself or in a star.
In lore, they will actually consume the planet itself such as the minerals, magma, and planet's core - leaving the planet nothing more than a skeleton. It's never talked about much because Tyranids begin with biomass. After all, it is easiest to break, and they can collect and replicate the DNA of the species as well as look into the brains and DNA to discover weaknesses and strategies used and create the best warriors with the best attributes to front them. Some part of the lore says, that when a hive fleet gets big enough they'll start consuming stars, lifeless planets, and even blackholes to get the energy and minerals to further and sustain their growth.
Also, depending on the size and complexity of the Tyranid force the shadow in the warp gets exponentially more powerful and complex - until it can begin messing and controlling electrical and mechanical objects through manifesting electromagnetic waves, so the bigger the Tyranids, the less effective technology becomes.
Ascendant Plane is not the Warp. To enter it, you'd need to gain access to it through paracausal power of your own, or to be allowed entrance.
I only really know Destiny lore.
While Oryx and Savathun would be just immune and could draw out a stalemate until they win by default, Xivu is a bit different. A Hive god who gain sher strength through combat and war. An endless war would be entirely in her favour, growing more powerful with each death, if her own brood or the Tyranids. She could fight them for so long that maybe some day she can just eradicate them all at some point. And this is not an evolution or something, she would just get more and more powerful.
She is also known as a great tactitian, so she might even get an upper hand when she works together with Savathun and Oryx to take them down
Yeah, he didn’t include Xivu at all, assuming the three siblings would work together here.
Xivu is a problem in any fight, especially on the same side as Savathun. Because you cannot win through sheer force or cunning without empowering them.
Don't forget wrathborn
Since the condition has spread to the fallen and cabal I have absolutely no trouble doubting that the wrathborn virus for lack of a better term could take over the Tyranids and hollow them out for Xivu to use as she wishes.
Xivu’s power comes from conflict in general. Even coming up with strategies and tactics fuels her. Which is why it’s would’ve been impossible to take her on without siphoning from her tribute.
Another thing to consider with Xivu is that she has wrathborn (mind controlling different races to act as combatants) so the hive have two ways of stealing combatants.
I've seen another video similar to this one, tho it only covered Tyranids vs Zerg, which pointed out one thing it seems like you missed: the Zerg's greatest advantage is in the type made by the Xel'Naga, AKA: the playable faction. They can produce entities like Abathur which provide intelligent design to new Zerg. Where the Tyranids are often reactive, even if highly-effective, the Zerg can adapt by taking note of target capabilities and create new Zerg without requiring additional biomass. They also have sub-commander types like the Cerberates and Queens which like to take over when there's a power vacuum.
The outcome of that video was that the end result would be that neither side would so much as win, as the rest of the galaxy would lose by being caught up in an evolutionary arms-race.
Don’t forget about Xivu Arath reveling from a long war. If all three give gods all in play I think the combination of oryx and xivu arath might have the edge
The end result of all these terrifying swarms fighting each other would be all of them adapting to become stronger and deadlier in a vicious stalemate, much like the armageddon war in 40k
These D2 vs War Hammer vids are awesome. I've been having a ton of fun learning about some War Hammer stuff. Destiny and War Hammer both seem to be ridiculously dumb in terms of power-scaling but in different ways. The War Hammer universe is the kid that says "My alien faction has whatever the power of your alien faction is *10!) while the Destiny universe is the kid that replies "Well yes but my alien faction can always retreat into para-causal parallel universes in which they are practically invincible and they cannot truly die outside of those dimensions!).
They really are just gi joes personified
Same, i like it too, its like lesson the the great good stories while you watching a good movie of great wars
Hmm I didn’t know anything about destinys lore, but now i think their hive faction would be closest to chaos daemons.
That role might fall on either the Taken or the Scorn.
Yeah tbh I'd compare the Hive to Chaos more than the nids. I'd pay good money to see Xivu Arath vs Khorne to see which god of war is strongest
It is AMAZING lore, please look it up.
@TheBitingBat as a war god, Khorne is probably more effective, as his domain is war, violence, and blood. His nature as a psychic parasite also makes him more damaging to societies and civilizations.
Xivu's domains are war, violence and love, because the hive have that weird philosophy that means you should kill the ones you love to make them stronger/validate them as deserving to exist. She doesn't have quite as potent a domain to draw from as Khorne, and is a physical being rather than a psychic parasite, so not as much wide scale effect. However, she can take to the field herself, and she's a skilled general and tactician, and regularly leads her army's herself.
Khorne is a worse problem for any galaxy that he occurs in, but Xivu is a much worse problem for the local level.
The hive in my opinion, I can’t remember how it works exactly but if the hive grow stronger with war, and they fight constantly with hen there’s going to be a lot of hive champions and ascendants being made. Like the mindvender made a throne world off killing cayde, so some knights and wizards killing many powerful nids and zergs would probably get them to a throne world too
There would probably be a lot of hive assending with such a big conflict. If the hive grow powerful enough in sword logic (killing/winning), they can create there own throne world.
I love biomechanics mixing with arcane. Very awesome
One thing about the Tyranids is that they are capable of adapting to deal even with the forces of Chaos. Assuming that the Taken function similar to Chaos Demons due to the Warp and the Ascendant Plane being similar, it would stand to reason that rank and file Taken would be effectively useless within the Shadow in the Warp that the Tyranids create, and only sending in the strongest taken to fight a Tyranid swarm wouldn't do much to slow down a species that can consume any biomatter from planets, not just the Hive themselves. The Hive would potentially win only with the taken, Oryx, and any Hive God still intact but that is equal to a death sentence as they wouldn't be able to feed their worms which would consume them as compensation.
Ohh, that is true, if they are incapable of feeding there worms they could still die. If the tyranids were able to kill them almost immediately after they emerged from there thrones then oryx and xivu would starve to death. Savathun would be fine though because she does not have a worm anymore
i give you an A for effort and style and lore narration
Being a hivemind doesn't prevent individual units from being taken. Such is the case for the Vex in Destiny.
Bro, simply, even chaos gods could not take this monsters, same for oryx, no tyranids can be taken, be logical
I have been trying to homebrew an alien species for a D&D campaign and this has been immensely helpful! Glad I found your channel!
Welcome aboard! Making homebrew D&D stuff is always fun… maybe I’ll do a video about it eventually
@@Buster-McTunder that would be sick. I looked all over the place for insectoid monster inspirations online and your video was the most helpful. Your in-depth explanation of lore is badass.
@@Buster-McTunder Had to come back, I just got my first Warhammer starter set and im working on assembling tyranids. You sold me on them. My players are going to stumble across an infected planet seemingly dormant. 😁
@@lockandbone6784 they’re cool. I like painting Tyranids because I get really gross with it. Although they can get monotonous at times. Hope they have fun facing down unending waves of devouring flesh!
@@Buster-McTunder I have 2 shit talking murder hobos that tell me my encounters are too weak. They've been basically begging for a TPK 😂
It's worth mentioning that Tyranids can and do use warp based powers to great effect, even manage to counter Daemons on a daemon world in the official lore. Also, they are from outside of our galaxy, some say that they consumed several others before coming to ours (as in: they are many, great invasion fleets are nothing but a probing tentacles of a greater whole). No idea on how they compare in mind powers to Destiny Big Guys (ripping a soul out is a thing), but Kerrigan would struggle with a single Norn Emissary, and there are many more where that came from.
Tyranids are bad in space combat/travel time though, so it's not a sure thing. Best they can offer is "more targets than you have ammo".
These are some of my all time favorite sci fi worlds, and it’s great to see them all put together. Based as hell.
Here is a interesting thought the hive gods still have to feed there worms Oryx: must conquer
Xiau warath: must wage war
Savathun: must trick or outsmart
So if the tyranids ate everyone that could lead to the hive dying anyway
I mean it would lead to Xivu Arath maybe but Oryx and Savathun destroyed their worms so this isn’t applicable.
"Existence is worthiness, that which cannot defend itself must die. This is the true shape, Aiat."
The only thing insectoid about the hive are the worms or moths that are living inside each one. I would say the fallen are more insectoid. Hive are more zombie and undead themed.
I think you have vastly underplayed one of the key features of tyranids and zerg but its greater for the zerg as its their core mechanic. Ultimate evolution it was played in the games as a ramping up threat but as shown especially in kerigans games zerg evolve both on what they fight and what they consume if they are facing an opponent with any biological based abilities the zerg will have have gained those abilities, this includes intelligence as the leaders in the zerg are capable of tactics and planed genetic manipulation in preparation for future threats. Unless your fighting already ramped up zerg, expect to win the first fight probably win the first 6 months but by then they have all of their own abilities, all of your abilities and are breeding an army a hundred times faster than you can respond to. You wipe out the zerg completely and fast or you lose.
Tyranids literally outmass them by a factor of 10000000000 to 1.
And the Hive Mind also does the same stuff, so lol
@@IAmAlpharius20 It's not that the zerg can do the same things as the tyranids and the hive it's the speed at which they can do it . For the tyranids and the hive they can adapt to changes and threats EVENTUALLY , however the zerg can adapt to threats in MINUTES .
In starcraft 2 heart of the swarm you actually get to see them adapt to threats and evolve new abilities in minutes and these upgrades are immediately applied to the entire zerg swarm throughout the entire galaxy . In tyranids this can take anywhere from weeks to years just like with the hive . The zerg simply adapt and evolve to fast for either faction to deal with , unless they completely wipe them out immediately and don't allow them the chance to evolve or withdraw they can win .
Also in regards to the tyranids having more numbers , the zerg just don't need them . As was stated in the video the tyranids can usually consume a world and strip it of life in 100 days . The zerg have done this in a matter of hours against fortified worlds defended by troops and defenses specifically designed and trained to wipe them out and they did it with a fraction of the forces that the tyranids use . In warhammer 40k the average life span of a regular guardsmen in flak armor armed only with a lasgun is 16 HOURS . In starcraft the average lifespan of a roided out soldier in power armor wielding an 8mm railgun that hits like an autocannon is JUST.30.SECONDS .
If the zerg get even a little bit of time to adapt they can evolve and adapt to anything , even the radiation that was mentioned as a "weakness" has been absorbed into their bodies to strengthen existing units . The zergs ability to evolve is just evolution on steroids and crank .
@@ds2781 uh, actually that's because Marines are idiots. They literally spent an entire engagement turning around in circles
Also, Tyranids also evolve rapidly. Or did the Carnifex sprouting wings and flying in response to boltwr fire slip your mind
@@IAmAlpharius20 That's ONE carnifex , in a single hive fleet , in a single solar system . Not every carnifex , in every hive fleet , every where in the universe . When the tyranids evolve to counter a threat any changes are limited to that single hive fleet located in that particular system and it usually takes weeks to do at a minimum . When the zerg alter themselves it's applied to their ENTIRE SPECIES , EVERYWHERE , INSTANTLY .
Also with the tyranids , forcing one creature to rapidly change requires the hivemind to focus on that one individual creature to accelerate the process . With the zerg it just happens automatically with almost no effort in a matter of minutes .
@@ds2781 source? Tyranids are able to do that easily
Tyranids do have a presence in the warp - that's what the 'Shadow of the Warp' is, it's not the Tyranids canceling out the warp, it's their overwhelming presence forcing the warp away, it's so powerful when normal guardsman are exposed they're driven to madness and will lose their soul for having them pushed away - and the Hivemind can actually directly harm the realms of Chaos itself by simply approaching them. Realms are made of the conceptual abstract concepts that rule reality and all higher realms - likely the Shadow in the Warp can harm the Oryx throne world perhaps even completely destroy it by simply manifesting in it or approaching it.
That is if the effect interacted with the ascendant plane, they could potentially harm oryx because unlike the other hive gods manifested his throne world in physical space. The others would be fine because there thrones exist outside of physical space and therefore could not be effected by the shadow
@@Cason172uhhh...the warp...is immaterial or the sea of souls...it's also outside of physical space and that doesn't seem to be an issue for the Tyranids
@@kobydouglas9957 what I meant was that throne worlds don’t have a correlating position in the real world. They are equally everywhere and nowhere. Oryx did tie his to a physical location and it spills into physical space there, this offered massive advantages in other conflicts but may be his downfall here assuming that the shadow can effect throne worlds.
Apologies for long post, was writing notes as I watched the video.
Some notes on my thoughts:
1. I think it's unfair to put the Zerg in their pre-Brood War configuration for this fight - the Overmind is over 20 years obsolete by the time of the end of Legacy of the Void, and actually has multiple methods of backing up its chain of command, and has vastly improved its organizational structure. The fact alone that Zagara can rebuild herself after being slain in battle is immensely useful in this fight, and theoretically the other Swarm Queens can do the same with their broods post LotV.
2. We also know now that they only need biomass samples from other species to begin replicating traits from them - in the 20 years since the Brood War, multiple new Zerg species were and variant strains were created through the acquisition of single-digits numbers of gene/essence samples from remote colonies.
3. And on top of that, they do have the ability to be just as subtle as the other two - and able to integrate technology and overtake it, meaning that even the Hive's biotech and mechanical tech isn't safe. The Zerg aren't pushovers, and would be making the worlds they inhabit just as hostile to the other two as vice-versa. It'd only take a few lesser Vex being infested (since there isn't a pre-programmed disconnect like with the Protoss) to begin getting access to their throneworlds.
4. The Swarmlord isn't even close to the most powerful combatants the Tyranids can field - he's just the best strategic mind, and arguably one of the only *actual* minds aside from the Swarm Mind's in the entirety of the Tyranid synaptic network. Basing things on his combat abilities isn't really fair to the Tyranids, who actually would probably be most dangerous for their unending waves of toxins, virulent super-plagues, and synaptic networking than for their direct combat skills.
5. The Tyranids can *shut down* interdimensional rifts - Hive Fleet Kronos' whole thing is that their Shadow in the Warp is so strong that it's actually healing the damage to the material plane caused by the Warp nearby where the hive fleet is. It might only be disruptions of Sword Logic rifts for the vast majority of hive fleets, but that's still an important ability to consider.
6. The Tyranids don't "not have a presence in the Warp", they have an *OVERWHELMING* presence in the Warp that smooths it out and undoes its causal damage to the fabric of reality (Which, if they weren't intent on eating everything *in* the material plane, would make them the good guys, but oh well). Their presence forces the Warp, which reflects the mental state of beings in the material realm, to calm and then go silent; likely, it's because it's trillions upon trillions of lives with a singular mind, the Warp is just wiped smooth by sheer brute psychic force. That said, this might be a case of two settings having similar, but entirely different systems - 'magic' in 40k is just Psychic Power manifesting portions of the Warp, which has been tainted by ancient wars and horrible, horrible catastrophes that afflicted the entire galaxy. Meanwhile, the Light and the Dark in Destiny appear to be their own things, separate from the Throneworlds, which are closer to pocket dimensions than the Warp is.
(disclaimer, I know a lot less about Destiny than I do about 40k and SC, so I might miss a few things)
7. I think you might be underestimating the ability to make things into Taken - Tyranids, when cut off from the Synaptic Network, *do* possess animal-level, or sometimes stronger, intelligences. Notably, most Synapse-projecting Tyranids (like Hive Tyrants, Malaceptors, Zoanthropes, etc.) could probably have some small spark of a 'soul-like' spark of individuality when fully separated. Specialized infiltrators like Lictors and Genestealers *often* develop their own personalities and habits due to spending long periods away from Synapse range, meaning that these organisms would likely be able to become Taken. Though, this *might* turn into an infection vector within the Throneworld if the Tyranids take advantage of this to trojan in additional organisms hidden inside the larger creatures being Taken.
8. The Worm Hive may have an additional upper hand - all of their units are, to some degree, individuals, each contributing. The Zerg's massive power spike by the end of LotV was because they embraced having actual individuals in the position of Swarm Queen, and Abathur has always been his own creature. The Tyranids lack any form of individualism when connected to the Synapse network, aside from the Swarmlord, so it's possible that the Hive might start being able to outmanuever the Swarm Mind thanks to out-of-the-box thinking from the fanatical Hive members with clever minds.
So what I'm hearing is, if the Tyranids fought Xivu Arath, they'd be screwed
Not scewed, the extent that war with amplify xivu’s power is unclear. But it is suggested in the lore that oryx has reached the maximum power obtainable through sword logic so xivu could become as powerful as oryx is which is still really bad, would not allow her power to climb infinitely
I love the theme for oryx
Oryx literally solos.
Im sorry I love Warhammer but the Taken King can literally take entire worlds, cut reality using physical strength alone, he's chaos god level casually. Oryx can destroy and corrupt ascendant spaces which are literally higher dimensional spaces. And taking isn't just a physical takeover, it hollows out and sharpens, it severs those taken from reality itself, even hiveminds like vex or other ascendant paracausal beings like Riven. Add to that the entirety of the Hive fleet, with warmoons, annihilator totems, death songs, magic, and near immortality from ascendancy, the Hive got this comfortably.
Yeah not only that But In one of the lore cards he even took somebody That was capable of destroying moons With ease Also this person was supposedly stronger than him Because he said She would have won If This was a fair fight
Casually ignoring that the Hive Mind makes Oryx look like a bad joke lmao 12 galaxies of Nids makes him a nonfactor
while this is true the best part is that oryx isnt even the strongest, savathun and especially xivu (pre season of the witch) are both even stronger
@@supahgaming8249 oryx is definitely stronger than xivu, it is debatable about wether he is stronger than savathun after she stole the light. But oryx and savathun are both way stronger than xivu. She is the last sibling remaining because she avoided the guardians the entire story
@@Cason172 no. pre season of the witch xivu is objectively the strongest and it’s not debatable, oryx hasn’t been the strongest for a long while
Hive EZ. If we count Oryx as alive he will just take them all. And taken can't die
Kerrigan could solo the hive and the taken.
@@naoway336 After she killed Amon maybe but still probably not
@@rexwer8723 I don't think Oryx is on par with the creator of the Universe threat that Amon was
@@naoway336 Mmm Amon was trapped the whole story and could only manipulate zerg, protos and terrans to create him a body. Oryx also takes spicies to create minions. His goal is just different from world annihilation, he wants to fight everything in the world to prove he is a perfect being or die and empower perfect being. It's just that in Destiny many has godly powers, so bar is pretty high.
@@rexwer8723 Amon didn't just take minions he literally created them Protoss were not meant to exist, Amon brought them into the universe to supplant humanity becoming the perfect beings.
Tyranids definitely can manipulate and use the warp. It’s more accurate to say that the tyranids have just one huge soul, they don’t attract attention in the warp because it would be like me trying to eat an a living elephant.
Not to mention the tyranids can completely drown out the warp with their shadow, cutting off any travel or communication, making any psyker lose their mind if they try anything
“Should a psyker attempt to use their otherworldly abilities, the cerebral cacophony worsens even further; the psychic sound of a billion alien thoughts scratch at their mind, and unless they are particularly strong-willed they will be pitched into an insanity where they will repeatedly utter phrases in a tongue too alien to properly pronounce.”
It even effects daemons to some effects
The full psychic might of the hive mind makes it as overpowered as GW wants it to be.
Hive. The advantage that sword logic gives them is to much, unless the tyranids are massively dominant on the battlefield the hive will only grow stronger as there members gain strength through killing. And the tyranids can never enter a throne world so that is a instant win condition for the hive
Hive stomp. Even ignoring Xivu Arath, who tithes off all war, becoming more powerful each time anything is killed in a war, the other two hive gods would destroy the others, becoming nearly infinitely powerful with the tithing of billions of creatures lives.
Wait till you realize that there are 12 galaxies worth of Tyranids. Hive mind goes omnomnom
I think there are some pretty core features of zerg that allow them to stomp both hive and nids.
@@IAmAlpharius20 12 galaxies of Tyranids, or in other words 12 galaxies of tithes for Xivu Arath to become nearly infinitely powerful off.
@@Umbra314 you do know that means the Hive Mind is considerably more powerful than her, right
@@IAmAlpharius20 for now. Unless they somehow kill her in her throne world, she will grow more powerful with literally everything that dies in an act of war, anywhere in the entire universe.
Scrin from command and conquer are biomechanical bugs kinda like tyranids but scrin can shoot lasers.
I mean the worm gods are crazy strong and they are technically hive I think
@Buster Mctunder space marine vs zebesian from Metroid would be cool also the scrin from command and conquer are very strong maybe.
Tyrnids
One thing to point out, the Doom of Malan'tai eats souls. It eats souls before they can enter a Soulstone.
I don't know how fast the soul of a "god," returns to its throne world, but if it takes a while the Nids WILL adapt and figure out a way to eat it.
They are already doing this with Demons, and they are pure warp energy.
I have no doubt that if it comes down to a battle of attrition the Great Devourer will become stronger, while the Hive only becomes weaker.
Ah yes the doom of Malan tai.... Who appeared once and basically has never been mentioned since.
I dunno man if you ask me poor lil fella is probably retconned or at least canned.
Instantly. If you kill a Hive God or Ascendant Hive, they instantly go into their Throne World upon death.
@@Cybercoin and with the conflict between the hive and the tyranids xivu would just keep coming back and keep getting stronger as she feeds off of conflict and every attempt to outsmart the hive would just feed savathun as well and thats not mentioning oryx that would just take the tyranids
@@TheFrozen_Aba Not sure if he could take Tyranids. He needs something with a mind. From what I gather Tyranids are a hivemind and don't have individuals.
@@Cybercoin that also applies to the vex They're the expression of a memetic pattern and appear to share information in a network. They don't seem self-aware, they don't use symbolic reasoning, so the concept of something like "individual" wouldn't even occur to them and guess what oryx can take them
While I agree that Zerg would die first it really boils down to exactly how the Shadow in the warp interacts with the throne worlds because if it works similar to The Warp they're not going to be able to manifest while inside the shadow in the warp and zoanthropes do stupid crap all the time they could probably Force a way in through brute psychic force.
Zerg got so low balled here it's crazy. Endgame Zerg basically have the job of regrowing all life in the universe and have the powers to back it up.
Aside from oryx’s throne world the shadow would not have any sort of chances of interacting. Because throne worlds do not have a physical location. Aside from oryx’s who turned his inside out. Though the shadow may not interact with this either as his dreadnoght that contains his throne is noted for having paracasal defenses that the other hive gods could not penetrate
Zerg would take out the tyranids. Their evolution is almost instantaneous while tyranids take weeks on end to evolve. It would be the hive against zerg
Tyranids have a serious chance against the Hive. In D2, with Oryx dead, we've learned that all one needs to control the Taken is a sufficient will to overpower them. Again, this is only now that he's dead, but I can't help but imagine what would happen if the Tyranids' hive mind was a more powerful will than Oryx alone. I think the Tyranids could wrestle control over the Taken right out from under Oryx. I don't think they could learn to take, nor would they need to, but without the Taken, Oryx is down an army.
Yeah you might be forgetting the prerequisite of needing to have the power to control darkness(ie. Savathun losing her control over the taken when she became a lightbearer) which the Tyranids don’t have soooo yeah.
They would need a connection to the darkness first, but what you should be asking is why couldn’t they introduce worms into there forms. The sacrifice for doing is that they need to kill which they are already doing. They would gain access to magic and throne worlds. And given how fast they reproduce they could farm themselves to god status super fast by killing off there own members
1.:I dont't know much about the tyranids lore but one thing is, they are not "warpless" the shadow is that their presence is so strong that normal psikers will die if they get close to it, and in the video at 11:49 theres a librarian(a psiker astartes) who is defeated by a tyranid "using the warp", to add more this "floating" tyranids are the one reponsable for "linking" every tyranid to the hive mind using the warp, theres other thing but that covers my point ( i think )
2.:I liked the video
3.:there may be some wrong words on my comentary
just to add some info. Psykers are beings (except the T'au if i'm not wrong) that can manipulate the energia of the warp at it's will.
Tau can influence the warp it's just more difficult, but they have created a warp entity in the books.
right, i mistook then with the necrons, do u know what warp entity the t'au created or in which book ?
@@T.DreadnoughtArmor I don't recall the book, but the story is about the tau trying to use warp travel, then they get busted by demons but a manifestation of the Greater Good saves them.
But if im not wrong, the undying solders of savathon could die if something crush thier souls, so i guess tyranids could find this out too, and the other point is, the stupid tyranids has really highly psychic power that basically like magic, so in that can why not they use this typ of things and yea they can jump up the warp is ways of shadow in the warp, is it not a way to go an other location ?, my mean even close to the throne worlds
The tyranids will eventually win. Whenever they hit a roadblock they just evolve a way around it like how Hive Fleet Kronos was created to stop the warp rifts and chaos shenanigans.
Also there was one slight mistake you made with the lore. There is no calling out when a tyranid hive fleet enters a system. Their shadow in the warp completely smothers out any form of warp communication while also making it nearly impossible to do any warp travel safely. They enter a system eat the biomass and move on while possibly leaving some dormant Genestealers to infect the people that come to investigate why the system went silent.
The problem is that destiny paracasality is not something that you can evolve, it can only be gained by aquiring it from something that already has it. Assuming they the tyranids do not acquire paracasality the best outcome they can hope for is a stalemate where they eradicate the hives presence from the physical world and deal with the occasional ascendant hive leaving there throne worlds
The joke here, is that Zerg can do most of what Tyranid do but faster.
They will rock paper scissors the Nids so hard that they will always be a few evolution back.
Zerg evolve instantly on the battlefield, that evolution is spread instantly across their entire swarm in the galaxy.
Their evolution is not reactive like Nids, its directed and engineered by intelligent beings in order to be near perfect.
Zerg take over planet in a matter of hours, they fill it with their own biomass in order to create hive world.
Purity of Essence allow the Zerg to out evolve everything, its a gift from the gods themselves. Only a Zerg can steal the essence of another Zerg.
Source? Play the game, go to the wiki and read.
Zebesian from Metroid are very powerful threat in the Metroid series.
Ok a couple things… first, the nids do have a presence in the warp… it’s so bloody overwhelming it casts a shadow. Xoanthrops are floating warp artillery units. Insanely powerful psyker units. Second, the nids adapt to what works and what doesn’t. For example, if they are fighting and meeting overwhelming lasgun fire the hive mind will adapt their carapace to the act as a heat sink. Or if the resistance is in the form of bolters the carapace will become thicker and denser making the bolts far less likely to do more than chip away at their armour… tyranids are damned scary. The hive? Eh.
The hive are scary, the fact remains that because they don’t have destiny magic they can never defeat the hive. The second thing is that the hive gain power though winning in contests (mostly killing) and wile there hives gods have became almost as strong as it is possible to be through this method. Their lesser troops will have access to a pretty much limitless amount of foes to kill and therefor will rapidly assend in strength.
Hummm. It’s something that’s been floating around for a while so let me ask you a couple questions and let me know if you think the hive would really have a chance. First a little pushing of the lore, the catachan devil is apparently a remnant of a previous fleet before the great crusade. (Side note, this implies that a nid hive was also the victim of that hell hole) and the devil is one of the toughest things on catachan. Deamons don’t even last on that world… second, the megarachnids, same as the devil and those tough bastards where absolutely destroying the astartes legions. Lastly the sheer size of a mid hive ship. I’m not sure how big the hive ones are but I’m hesitant to compare it the the vast size of imperial ships… and a nid ship swallowed a cruiser whole…(I think it was a cruiser) and those are aren’t small … basically at some point the nids will become unbeatable to the hive… and if you assume the powerful psykers fueled and focused by an overwhelming mind couldn’t crack open a simple dimensional barrier then I think you’re in for some disappointment…
@@someoneold5426 the hive have converted moons into ships, we do not know know how big those moons were. But oryx’s dreadnoght is about as large as earths moon. I do not know how that compares to 40k ships as I only really know destiny lore. As to them opening a gateway to the hive throne worlds. It really depends on if the different magic systems interact. Even if they can enter the hive throne worlds they would likely be outmatched there because the hive gods can change reality however they like in there for non-paracasal beings. But again it comes down to if the magic systems interact
Yeah, I know far more about 40k than most other franchises. Love that shit. But from what you just said… the largest imperial ship is the phalanx, it’s massive. It’s not moon sized though… it’s rare indeed for 40k ships to be outsized. So I don’t believe orix’s ship would be eaten… honestly I think it would be a flat out statement… in reality the nids would have the advantage, however they wouldn’t be able to finish the job due to being toyed with in the … throne world was it?
@@someoneold5426 yeah, I think that the nids have the advantage through shear amount and the rate they reproduce. The hive expeshily the hive gods could pretty much obliterate them on the local scale but would eventually be overwhelmed. Though they would keep coming back pretty much at full strength. The problem with comparing worlds with destiny is the power everything is based around is kinda unbeatable without having the power yourself even when you are outmatched in pretty much every way
hive, bc the tyranids wouldn't have any counter for the hive gods coming back to life and both xivu and oryx could take all of the zerg and enhance them with darkness.
you forgot the shadow of the warp that can block presence of the warp and can also block the worm presence too and also gene stealer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What did the Zerg ever do to you?!
Every time it's Warhammer badass versus insert IP badass it always ends in this battle will be awesome but nobody wins😂
zerg are pretty much the younger but smarter cousins of the nids in that while they are very similar the zerg actually seem to have the greater potential even if not by a huge amount where the nids have more experiance and numbers but are slightly more limited in how they can evolve and what they can assimilate given certain feral nid strains they refuse to reabsorb so im very certain the nids couldn't assimilate the zerg but the zerg could assimilate nids as well as the nids have lost in contests of bioweapon vs bioweapon before weather its manufactured bioweapons or against other super organisms like life forms of catachan where the zerg don't seem to lose in such competitions and their homeworld was pretty much catachan maybe even somewhat deadlier given many of the primal zerg were also intelligent along with just very deadly. so unless the nids and the hive overcome the zerg instantly the zerg will rapidly start assimilating the other factions biology which can do even just by spreading pathogens and infecting them or even just having creep wveorb or fone into physical contact with them that way plus they can also infect machines which could also depending on the specific scenario also give them a edge as well. And they can ressurect individuals as well if they want. and the current god of the zerg is extremely powerful and intelligent more so then the original leader.
also i know nothing about destiny so interesting to learn about the hive
This vid lowballed the Zerg hard. Zerg end game could wreck these forces. Difference between Nid evolution and Zerg evolution is the speed of it. Can't really take over a Zerg as even the zergling is not a single creature its very cells are creatures with their own intelligence literally hunting themselves to evolve. And yeah end game zerg are tasked with repopulating the whole universe.
@@naoway336 agreed the main advantage i generally give the nids over the zerg is just number they've eaten a galaxy or two before so they have who knows how much biomass they have and can make larger amounts of troops and bioships with and such and one or two other things that would be more a initial advantages but the zerg would rapidly equal or surpass it or at least form just a counter measure faster then the nids can keep up especially when the zerg tap into their genetic library the nids collected over the eons which is the main way the nids adapt it seems heavily reliant on what they've absorbed where zerg do that but also evolve on their own.
@@dragonlord498 We don't have concrete proof the nids have eaten other galaxies, just speculation lore wise, but I'm down with giving them that in a comparison. But zerg have biogenerativekenesis We literally see Kerrigan creating life from her palm who then turns into one of the most powerful brood queens in the lore. I just have a hard time seeing how the nids could stand up the Kerrigan when she goes full goku.
@@naoway336 their is also some evidence the nids arrived on catachan before and lost given at least one of the creatures their seems like its descended from feral nids and if thats the case i suspect would be a similar result if they invaded zerus
To be honest the hive would only need the 4 hive gods, xivu would be the greatest threat as the act of war alone would empower her and if they kill any powerful being they’d become exponentially more powerful
How are you not going to add the food in this video?
As an unstoppable eldritch horror sci-fi hive mind with magic powers, takes the cake, and then it takes everyone else's cakes, and then it eats everyone else.
The more of a virus
Tyranids.
As much as I love the Hive in this one. Tyranids are essentially unlimited. Especially if you look at the fact that they are warming the Milky Way...from multiple angles. And the Hive Gods become stronger when they are being tithed to by the ones below them. So that is one way of weakening them if those below them are killed. Xivu Arath, who you didn't mention would be the one that could most likely win in the end. As she feeds of War kind of like Khorne does. Anyway, Lucent Hive DO leave behind a body when killed. All Lightbearers do unless vaporized.
Well the tyranids can never win because they can never enter throne worlds. And also while xivu may gain strength from war she is not as powerful as the other siblings as they ascended beyond the confines of the original bargain. But xivu has not
You re hardly underestimate zerg
the flood wins
I haven't watched the full vid yet, but most people who compare StarCraft don't do a very good job with the Zerg. They are incredibly op end game.
Kerrigan becomes a universe level threat capable of of blowing up planets and seeding the universe with life.
@@naoway336 Indeed, but most of them don’t really understand the Zerg or start by thinking that they are just worse Tyranids, they are not.
But its kinda meaningless to argue with 40k fan, they forget that the sole reason that their war never end is because every faction is either too dumb to act with intelligence or stuck in a never ending lore circle (the Tyranids for example).
Its funny because Zerg and Tyranids could both have took over their whole respective verse if there was no plot shield.
Its still a mystery for me that the zerg are limited to one sector when they reproduce at an incredibly fast pace and travel faster than the Tyranids… Thats what I call a « Plot device »
@@trigz8626 The zerg were limited to a single sector because of Amon and the Overmind, remember the Overmind was not originally meant to be part of the zerg biology.
Xivu simple
finally, my least favorite youtuber uploaded something worse than before
How is it bad?
@@jamespaguip5913 it’s a joke this is one of my Twitch mods
@@Buster-McTunder oh what your thoughts on the scrin from command and conquer and the zebesian from Metroid.
hawt@@jamespaguip5913
Hive
Ew bugs