Record Live Event Sound from a Mixing Board
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- How do you record sound from a mixing board at a live event? Here are the basics!
More sophisticated live show recording discussion with Mike Stranks: • Sound for Video Sessio...
If you’d like to learn how to make great dialogue audio for your film and video projects, please have a look at my courses at school.learnli...
Links to gear discussed and used to shoot this episode:
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Recorders I’ve used and that can record line level from a mixing board (links to B&H, Amazon, or DVeStore):
Zoom H4n Pro (use 1/4” input only): geni.us/Grthw
Zoom H5 (use 1/4” input only): geni.us/JKIkO1o
Zoom H6 (use 1/4” input only): bhpho.to/2wdpR0X
Tascam DR-60DmkII: geni.us/BUyoU
Tascam DR-70D: geni.us/tg9x8Ej
Tascam DR-701D: bhpho.to/2rkSzrI
Zoom F4 (use 1/4” input only): bhpho.to/2Aplb5d
Zoom F8 (use 1/4” input only): bhpho.to/2rsxWKr
Sound Devices MixPre-3: www.dvestore.c...
Sound Devices MixPre-6: www.dvestore.c...
Sound Devices MixPre-10T: www.dvestore.c...
Sound Devices 633: www.dvestore.co...
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1/4” to 1/4” TRS Cable
Amazon: geni.us/Ewlj
B&H: bhpho.to/2wajcV4
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XLR Female to 1/4” TRS Cable (XLR connects to mixing board, 1/4” to your recorder)
Amazon: geni.us/NQRo
B&H: bhpho.to/2rmL3wB
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XLR to XLR Cable (do NOT use this cable for Zoom recorders)
Amazon: geni.us/lAcVTbj
B&H: bhpho.to/2JVoA0j
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RCA to 1/4” TS Cable
Amazon: geni.us/0lz2
B&H: bhpho.to/2IjaCIq
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Anker USB A & C Battery Bank
Amazon: geni.us/0Mfe3B6
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Line Isolator/Transformer (need 2 for stereo mixes, one for mono)
B&H: bhpho.to/2rm9Ctj
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Blackmagic design Ursa Mini Pro Cinema Camera - used for the talking head shots in this episode
B&H: bhpho.to/2AKJOcN
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Sigma ART 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Lens (Canon EF Mount)
B&H: bhpho.to/2kjsI2x
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Panasonic GH5 - Used for some of the product shots
Amazon: geni.us/ALBhDk
B&H: bhpho.to/2BcorBk
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Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 OIS Lens - incredibly versatile lens that is on the GH5 most of the time
Amazon: geni.us/ILk8sxj
B&H: bhpho.to/2i6s2gv
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Copyright 2018 by Curtis Judd
Music - MzA by Cary Judd, used with permission
Ethics statement: Some of the links above are Amazon.com, B&H Photo, or other affiliate links.
As a sound guy who's had these kinds of requests before, thank you! This was great and covered much of our sides concerns.
Thanks Glynne. Been there a few times myself.
Yr absolutely right Chris, the sound guy is doing a huge favour allowing connection to his sound board. Recently filmed a symposium 100 + people, a panel of 5 speakers worn radio mics , plus the host had hand held mic, all synced to the sound board. Vox Pop from the crowd. No way I could have captured pro audio quality from on camera rode mics. So I respectfully asked if I connect an xlr cable from my Sony NXCam (locked off wide), he said sure. Took my long lead & then asked me how the levels were! The video was a winner due to the quality of the multiple voices. Subsequently I’ve been asked to shoot another symposium. My first question was- did you book sound guy too? They said yes! So I’m saving up a big handshake for the sound guy. He made my video look good because it sounded professional! 🤠🎥🎶
Thanks Moz - great example of what happens when you respect the sound engineer. Good work!
Wow thats awesome good work
Some great advice here! A lot of people don't realize that the sound from a FOH mixing console doesn't equal the kinds of things you hear in concert videos-- I'm glad you touched on that! Always, always, always mic the room!
Thanks, yes, a proper mix with room mics is a topic we'll need to cover in way more depth.
@@curtisjudd Hey Curtis Please let me know if you have cover this already? Great content btw. I am going back and forth and watching all your videos. They are absolutely great, You deserve way more Subs!
This was a good tutorial and as a live sound engineer I especially appreciate the "social engineering" tips you give videographers. One hugely useful $10 tool for the whole line/mic issue is a Hosa Variable (-10/-20/-30db) XLR Pad. Can save you in a bunch of scenarios. Don't forget to use headphones to check your level as it may appear fine but actually be overmodulated and need to be stepped down, a frequent problem with Zoom I've found.
Thanks Andrew, appreciate and completely agree with the tips on the variable pad and monitoring with headphones.
Every time I hear audio from your videos a tear rolls out my eye. It's so crisp and clear!
Thanks Michael!
it can be very helpfull to record the sound on a second channel with -10db. if you get clipping during the show you have a backup.
Thanks, good point.
The thing about standards is, there are a lot of them. 2 line level standards can make your day.
You are very right. These guys are doing you a huge favor. They often have to create a special mix for your send. I always appreciate when they do this. I always have a back up plan so I will be recording by microphones as well. Sometimes, I will get a problem coming from the board. I don't think less of the audio guy. The show and the live music is their first priority and I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Great video! I see this question asked so much, it's nice to have a video to point people to.
One thing - Many modern soundboards now have a USB out. For example, I shot a live concert this past weekend, and all I had to do was give the soundman a USB stick and he was able to record the board feed directly on that for me. Super easy and convenient.
Thanks! Also very good point on the more modern boards having USB out. We're seeing that on more and more of the digital boards (my Allen & Heath SQ-5 has this). One additional note: Good idea to make sure you're using a fast USB drive. Some of the slower sticks can have trouble keeping up, especially on the boards that put out 96kHz sample rates.
Curtis Judd I allowed a performance to record via USB as I was packing up i had left the USB still plugged in
The performer pulled the stick out with out confirmation and corrupted their files.
USB stick is close to hassle free but still don’t forget respect your sound guy
Nice job Curtis THANKS!....lots of great info...yep respect the sound guy first and foremost....In Europe when a band is introduced by name, they ALWAYS point to their sound guy at the FOH board and say..he's the most important member of the band!
Indeed!
I've covered some live events, and on occasion, I've had to negotiate with the sound guy. This video sums up everything I _thought_ I've learned. I'll probably be running this again when I do my next event. So it's a TERRIFIC resource. Thanks!
Thanks Brian, happy mixing!
Heads up: The 1/4" on the H4N is hiZ/instrument level only. The H4N does NOT have a line level option for the combo jacks. You want to use a -50dB attenuator (line level to mic level) and make that connection on the XLR ports. I have had great success with the Shure A15LA Line Adapter, ...which was practically designed for this exact purpose. The mic level/instrument level combo jacks on the H4N and H4N Pro have been a "surprise" problem for many customers, ...but one that is easily solved.
Thanks Jamie, appreciate the extra detail.
Your video(s) have saved me as a videographer! This video especially helped me when it came to recording from the soundboard. Thanks for covering the proper etiquette and items to have to be prepared!
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FINALLY SOMEONE WHO IS DETAILED AND HELPFUL ON HOW TO FILM AUDIO FROM A MIXER!
I go to Weddings all the time and I'm tired of not having my audio not be as good and it SHOULD be. I put mics on everyone, but when a girl is wearing a dress I can't put a mic on her since they have no pockets.
So this was INSANELY helpful.
Thanks SuperIasTM! 👍
Honestly hands down best audio video ever. Thank you
Thanks!
Great advise -
I was so nice last night to the sound engineer when hooking up my H6 - you taught me something about the 1/4 inch cable that forces the H6 to line level didn’t know that my sound came out really good and I use that type of connector thanks bud
👍 Good work!
Thanks for the tips. Really good video.
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thanks for the tip before getting a Zoom H5 to record from my mixer at home - i was about to go down a rabbit hole to find this information and you were the first video i clicked. question answered. i appreciate it 🙏
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As always. A great video. But the one thing I wanted to mention is how you were so right to remind us to thank the sound board operator. I took extra time today to do that. And you could tell he felt appreciated. Thanks Curtis.
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This video answered all of my questions including ones I didn't know I needed to ask. Thank you so much! You are such a huge help!
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For concerts I would recommend to get in touch with the sound engineer ahead so you don't get played against eachother. Most soundboards these days have multitrack recording inbuild or through an usb interface. Multitrack recording would be an additional service for me as a sound engineer, so it can happen that the client tries to get around that cost by asking you. You should get that sorted out before you agree to record an event.
Very good points, thank you Canstantin.
Thank you for you excellent videos. It's always a pleasure to learn more on audio for cinemato- and videography through your content. Also you simply have to appreciate that you normalize your videos ; )
I’m a communication student and I’m Learning more about sound from you than my university’s classes during this covid thing since there are no actual classes going on.
Thanks
Glad the videos are helping!
'Nother sound guy here with a very important caution: If your recorder uses XLR inputs for mic/line and has the ability to provide phantom power: _Always_ set up the recorder for line level _before_ plugging into anyone's mixer. If you start with your recorder set up for phantom-powered mics and then plug in, you will shove ~48 vdc _into_ the mixer outputs. Depending on the design of the mixer's output stages, this can be damaging, can cause popping, or might not do anything harmful at all. It's just a best practice to switch recorders to line level, _before_ plugging into any source other than one that requires phantom power.
Thanks Jen, good advice. Also, some recorders can still deliver +48V phantom power when set to line level so also good to turn off phantom power, regardless.
Zoom H5 have an optional -20dB pad setting that you can set for input 1 and 2. So there's no need to use TRS as input. You can use XLR to XLR.
But why use a pad and still go through the amplification stage when you can do line level instead?
I haven't done audio production for a long while but this 7.5 minutes did a tremendous job of getting me back up to speed. Nicely done. The ambient crowd audio was a small statement with a lot of oomph to it. I'll be looking for your videos on microphones next. Used to use Shure SM-57s and SM-58s an a Sennheiser mic (I forget the model) on a shock mount a lot. Working on rebuilding my gear from the basics might now. This information was a huge help. Thank you very much! I'll have to work on getting audio from instruments at some point, but have to get the vocals and ambient audio worked out first.
Hopefully you have or are planning drum kit isolation, as you already know drums without baffles can ruin any recording that you plan to remix.
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Hey Curtis, as always, good advice on your channel. As the sound guy who was often running the board (or desk as we call it in the UK) you hit all the points just right. It's worth knowing ahead of time whether you want to ask for a Mic level or Line level signal from the board. Many cameras can take either, in which case ask and set up for Line level, but some DSLRs can only take Mic level so you need to ask for that. Preparation, preparation....
That’s another great point, thanks for that Cameron!
You are a veritable sound god, Curtis! As a one man band doing sound and camera, had this challenge recently, and it was a nightmare to get the sound without accessing the board. This helps so much! Thanks a bunch :)
Thanks so much, Janmejay!
Thanks so much Curtis for covering this particular live event sound recording. I surely have gained so much from you in regards to filmmaking and audio lessons. I truly appreciate your dedication to helping fellow creators.
Thank you!
Great info as always. Some venues have sound mixers that are union and they get extremely cagey about tapping in and what you are allowed to touch. Great information.
Thanks Jeff and good point re: union mixers.
Very good advice, Curtis. I particularly liked the thing about recording the audience separately. I’d probably add that this situation is an example of when using time code would be a good idea, so you can later align the audience recording with the concert (or whatever) recording.
Thanks Rusty, yes, timecode could definitely help here.
Very important things to consider, hopefully less people will be demanding favors with little time to prepare. I've never considered asking how to reach the sound engineer. The no touching is always important, I've worked with some people that don't enjoy it either but can't keep their hands to themselves. Thanks for the great advice.
Thanks Freddie.
Thanks. Its so enlightening. Can you explain more why we want line level not mic level? Whats the different?
Line level is a much stronger signal - approximately 40dB. If you feed a line level signal from a mixing board into the mic level input on a recorder, the recorder will end up with a completely distorted recording.
great stuff. I ran audio for a choir concert and recorded individual channels thru a digital mixer just for fun. The recorded audio was clean, but at the same time dead from the lack room mics. now i know why it sounded dead :D
Thanks, yes, always a surprise the first time.
SUBSCRIBED!! Thank you so much for this video. I am a videographer who recently has gotten more live event oppurtunites and yes I am excited for these events but the sound aspect freaked me out. Bad sound equals bad video. Curtis your video was clear and straight to the point. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!
Thanks! One thing we didn't really cover too much here is that it often still makes sense to put two microphones in the room to capture the sound that way in addition to taking a feed from a mixing board. The mixing board audio can sometimes sound too "dead." Best wishes and happy recording!
@@curtisjudd thank you Curtis!! Will take that in consideration
Another Great video. I have learnt some of these things the hard way, this video would have saved me many months, I hope it helps others.
I wonder if you could do a part 2? More details on room mic’ing, taking multiple channels, or even multitrack USB out of bigger mixers? Yours are the best CZcams audio tips I have found so far.
Thanks Matt. Great idea, I'll add it to the list!
Curtis's videos are the best- no nonsense!!
Thanks ThroughLens Studios!
One thing to keep in mind is that if the sound person does not allow you to record from his mixer, or for any reason all the outs from the mixer are taken, you still have some hope. You can plug directly into one of their speakers. Professional sound speakers usually have an XLR out port. Another thing. Just to reduce the chance you may not be able to plug in to the sound mixer because all the out ports are taken, bring Y cables (phono jack and RCA splitters) and kindly request the sound engineer to split the out signal with you using your Y cable(s). On a last resort, if none of the ports are available and the sound speakers do not have a XLR port, try to get a patch from the headphones out of the board. If the audio person is using that port, give him/her a Y splitter cable ( with 1/8 mini stereo or 1/4 inch jack connector, bring both!) to share that headphones port with you. Be as prepare as possible to bring all sorts of cables and connectors including a Shure multi level attenuator (-15 db, -20 db, -25 db) in case they give you a line level signal and you only have a mic level input in your device (such as wireless system, if you are sending the signal wirelessly directly to your camera. Or, if for any reason your camera does not have a line level input).
Excellent input, thanks so much for sharing. Sounds like you've done this a time or two. 👍
Great advice. I used to get so sick of bands complaining how bad recordings from shows sounded I started just telling them that although the desk looked fancy the one thing it couldn't do was feed a recorder without destroying the quality of the live sound.
Those who knew I was bullshitting knew why and we could sort something out they would be happy with but the arrogant little superstar metal heads took it as gospel and walked away. In the end we hung a stereo mic in the roof 5 yards back from the stage so it basically caught the front of house and crowd and just ran that to a pc and burned a disk of it for bands.
Strangely enough the club I was at, the Punks were always more reasonable than the metal bands which always surprised me..... It didn't happen often, perhaps I am being unfair.
But it is the case that in a small to medium venue the mix to front of house tends to be mostly vocals and everything else is all over the place. Which just rubbed up the guitar warriors no end. They were so loud on stage and with their amps pointing out at ear height ( try explaining that to them..) often nothing of their signal went through the board. Sorry, having a ranty day. I was only ever an amateur but I had pride in my work and the attitude would just floor me sometimes and leave me wondering why I bothered.
Haha! Great stories, thanks for that! It is very good for us sound for film guys to understand the realities of sound engineers at the mixing board.
Didnt quite get what you wrote about the h5, but I took and ordered myself 1/4 to xlr male and rca to xlr male. also ordered myself 2 -20db XLR Balanced Attenuator Adapter. hopefully that's enough for the mixer I will be taking audio from
For most mixers, you will need female XLR to 1/4" TRS.
Another Master piece from Curtis Judd
Thanks!
Another excellent instructional video, Curtis. I needed this about three years ago, but you have certainly nailed all the important points I've learned...I will be recommending this video for others coming up.
Thanks Kirk. Sorry on the late arrival. ;-)
Good advice Curtis! Don't bug the sound guy too much! I try to talk to them on the phone before the day of the show, just so there are no suprises.
Totally agree, it can be very awkward to approach the sound guy right before the show and not very respectful of them (given they have a lot to do and a lot on their minds). Thanks Chad!
Chad Johnson I'd actually say more than an email or phone call, because we frequently work for a client only 10 hours that day and are otherwise off the clock, GET THERE EARLY. When someone arrives during the event and needs help I have very little sympathy for them, if they are there an hour before I will frequently do everything I can including loan them adapters to get it done right!
Recording requires you to pay attention to the recording. Mixing requires you to pay attention to the mixing. If you try to do both you will make mistakes. You, as the person recording, are asking for the sound guy's help by allowing you to hook up to his gear. Just be cool, and contact him beforehand and show up with plenty of time to spare. If you think that's kowtowing, then he'll probably sense you have an attitude, and give you an attitude back, or not help you at all.
100% agree. Short version: Show respect across the board, contact the sound engineer beforehand, come with everything you need, and show up plenty early, before sound check if you're allowed in for that.
Good points and exactly what we covered in the linked in-depth episode with Mike Stranks. Thanks 3minus1 Media!
This video and all your advices are saving my life! :D I just accepted a work on an audio department and recording from a Mixing Board is what I do, actually with a Zoom H4N, wish me luck. If I had any doubt I will post it here (btw today it's my official first day, fingers crossed :D)
Congratulations and happy recording!
Thank you! I already got my gear packed and ready. You are a truly a master for we all who want to make audio for audiovisual productions.
I think after recording from the mixture and u can't hear people clap hands, u can use an audio from the camera as u try to edit from the adobe, Synchronise the audio, delete the scratch sound but remember to cut the point at which people are clapping that can fit your tul
Yes, or set up room mics to record the audience so you can mix them in during post.
Thanks for this. Highly advise event coverage videographers to carry all the adapters necessary to be able to tap into 3.5mm TRS, 1/4” TRS, RCA, and XLR and go into their recorder or camera. Also having an active splitter in your kit would be good, too - oftentimes there just won’t be a convenient output available, and asking the foh engineer to dedicate and configure an aux channel just for you is super stressful for the engineer and presumptuous. It probably won’t happen. However, if you have something like a quality press box (audio DA) that can split an output without degrading the signal, and you ARRANGE THIS IN ADVANCE with the engineer, you can make it easy for him/her. Understand their job, respect the stress and pressure involved, make arrangements as far in advance as possible, and have your own solution instead of expecting them to solve your problem for you - do these things, and they’ll almost always be happy to help you out.
Thanks Andin, agree on all points.
Lmao... I’m at the board at a big corporate event at this very moment, (break now), and didn’t some brilliant videographer just walk right up to the tech table in the middle of a live presentation wanting a hole to stick his XLR cable into. Specifically XLR, even, no other options, and, “I must have an audio feed!!”
Yeah, everyone, please learn this!!
:)
Thanks Curtis, what I was looking for. Over the last year I've learned a lot of things about sound and video and followed your advices.
Thank you Maria
It felt like hearing and watching Brian May...
Very helpful video, well done!
I'm flattered. 😀
Thank you sir! This is so helpful to me. About to go video my first wedding in one month!
Good luck!
Thanks dude. Your videos are really helpful! I'm a sound student in France :)
Thanks Anthony!
Hi Curtis
Really enjoying your videos - thank you.
Been using zoom H5 for years to record separate mixer output and XY ambience tracks to then sync with video of live show. Worked well.
You mentioned that 1/4 TRS needed to switch H5 into line mode. Nothing in the manual about that and we have always used H5 XLR input and have recorded from mixer both pre and post fade outputs but always careful with levels.
In our testing it doesn’t seem to make any difference - have we missed something?
Just got Mixpre-6 in an effort to move things forwards with non stage recordings and loving it for its low noise floor.
Cheers
Simon
Really useful video Curtis. Thankfully i seem to have everything i need gear wise, but that was a great point about using 'line' record - I wouldn't have remembered to change that on my tascam!
Thanks John 👍🏻
Helo Curtis and thanks a lot for such a practical and detailed video. Just to confirm, you said that the zoom h6 can be forced into line input with a 1/4" but from the zoom page I get this: "All four main H6 inputs (inputs 1-4) are combo connectors that can accept either XLR or ¼” balanced or unbalanced phone cables. They can handle both mic- and line-level signals, which means that you can connect either external microphones or line-level devices like mixers, portable music players, electronic keyboards, or electric guitars or basses with active electronics (passive electric guitars or basses can also be connected with the use of a mixer or effects device). Internal switching contacts automatically detect the circuit of choice." Maybe an update? Thanks again
Perhaps so. I don't own an H6 to test this, but on my H4n, definitely only 1/4" would change the input to line level. Zoom support should be able to confirm. Best wishes!
@@curtisjudd Thanks
VERY helpful. Thank you for doing this and making it easy to understand!
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This is such a top notch video! Covered everything I needed to know :)
Thanks Jesee!
Much helpful! So information! Great advices!
Thank you for the wonderful video, Curtis! You've made my day by posting about this topic.
Thanks! 👍
Good stuff as always, Curtis! I'm traveling to Europe to record a live event at a conference with an H6. Good to know I'll need to TRS cable.
Good luck Pat!
Hi! I’m also using a h6, at 3:08 he mentions something about trs cable that I didn’t quit understood. Does having the 1/4” trs || make xlr cable what I need in this scenario?
This was exactly what I needed! Thank you for your great content!
You're most welcome!
Really great advices. It’s like someone walking up at the beginning or middle of a shoot at the last minute, asking if they can jack into the signal from your camera. Ahhh...no. :)
Haha! Good point. Way to bring it home to the DPs. ;-)
I see you added the h4n as a recorder but the line in for it isn't balanced and it's ideally for guitars rather than line in.
Hello Curtis! Your channel is very helpful about many things! Maybe you know about one setting of Tascam Dr 100. I have DR 100 mk3, maybe mk2 have same settings(Problem). Very often I record dj mixes from A & H XONE 92 mixer. I Have good quality cable RCA to XLR. Xone 92 have only rec out outputs RCA for mix recording. So When I start recording my record Tascam screen show -12db maximum level( if track is play not very hi volume - -18db). I Know that many people recommend to rec near -6db. But right wheel in absolute minus value is 0 and absolute plus is 12. So I can't up signal to -6 or to 0 by write wheel on the body of tascam. For example on Settings of uni mic this value from 16 to 44. My Mixer Show that channel gain is 0dB or even +6 db, About my settings:Source - Line; Right wheel is on maximum 12.0. Auto tone - off. Level control - Off, Output Att - 0dB, In Power/Display - Peak level - -2.0dB. I Know that Zoom H4 can record till 0db in source Line, I was that you Used dr 100 Mk2, Maybe it have same settings?
Hi Andrey Grad, I usually record with the peaks between -18 to -12dBFS then in post, I loudness normalize to the levels I want because I can first compress some of the peaks/transients.
This is a Tremendous help!!! Thank you for explaining this in such a simple way!
You bet, thanks for the feedback!
Always looking to get better at this! Thanks Curtis!
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Excellent video Curtis. Very clear and concise. I've recently started to video variety shows for my local Musical Society. I had been using the H1N to record the ambient audio in the theatre, but I'm upgrading now to the H4N Pro. Will I be able to take a line from the sound desk as well as the ambient recording on the H14N?
Also, how easy is it to do a mix of Desk and ambient sound? Would this be done in something like Adobe Audition or directly in Premiere Pro?
I'm only really dabbling in video right now and I am enjoying it immensely.
Thanks again for the tutorial.
Rob
Yes, at the end of the video I believe we showed how to get the H4n into line level mode by using a 1/4" TRS cable into the inputs. This tells the H4n Pro that the audio is line level. That's the most important thing.
I haven't used the H4n in a long time but yes, I believe you can record the built-in stereo mics and the combination inputs at the same time.
This was very helpful 👍🏻.
Thank you!
👍
Solid content man. Definitely gonna come back to this in the future. May I ask what your audio setup for this video was?
Thanks. It's been a long time but if memory serves, this was recorded with a DPA 4017b to a Sound Devices 633 recorder.
Super useful! Thank you for breaking it down for us.
Thanks for the feedback Ozzy!
Damn man.... You break it down Barney Style. No one should have an issue with your videos.
👍🏻
wow just found what i have looking for. thank you a lot
You're welcome and happy recording!
Great video. Another tutorial on the subject suggested plugging a -20db attenuator between XLR and Zoom H4N, indicating that distortion was likely or inevitable without it. You didn't mention that...let me know your thoughts, please.
If you plug a 1/4” plug into the H4n, I didn’t find an attenuator necessary.
The 1/4" on the H4N is hiZ/instrument level only. The H4N does NOT have a line level option for the combo jacks. You want to use a -50dB attenuator (line level to mic level) and make that connection on the XLR ports. I have had great success with the Shure A15LA Line Adapter, ...which was practically designed for this exact purpose. The mic level/instrument level combo jacks on the H4N and H4N Pro have been a "surprise" problem for many customers, ...but one that is easily solved.
@@JamieHitt Thanks Jamie. Your caution about attenuator is only if I'm using the 1/4" TRS in, right? If I use XLR input, no need for attenuator?
Martha Reese - This is a little complicated, ...so here we go. To leave out of a mixer with a +4dBu signal and enter the H4N, ....you kind of have options, ...and you kind of don't.
The maximum permissible input level for the H4N's 1/4" jack is +2 dBu, ...not +24 dBu like say, ...a Tascam DR-60DMKII.
High ends of a +4 dBu signal can hit well into the teens or better. Blowing past that +2 dBu maximum that had already been surpassed by the signal itself.
The H4N's 1/4" input is set up for two kinds of input. But only barely. Either a HiZ(instrument level), ...or almost adequate for self-adapting to -10dBv consumer line level. Some mixers will have an RCA output that is -10dBv. But even then, you are pushing the limits for the H4N's input and will often experience distortion.
Not to mention there can be all kinds of complications trying to match a line level output (pro or consumer) to an instrument level input. So I've never seen the H4N's 1/4" jack as a viable port of entry for a +4dBu signal.
The XLR jack is another story. It is MIC level. And you can bring the +4 dBu output of a mixer down to MIC level. The Shure A15LA Line Adapter converts balanced line level signals to MIC level (50dB Attenuation). And I believe it not only pads the signal, but also adapts for impedance issues. So you could go from balanced XLR output(s) of the mixer, ...into the adapter(s), ...and then into the balanced XLR port(s) of the H4N.
But I personally would not attempt using the 1/4" inputs. Even with a -10dBv signal that had its levels lowered on the mixer. Go the XLR route and you should be pleased with the results.
The other options are to buy a more expensive Zoom that readily accepts a line level signal, ....or a Tascam that does, ...etc.
Hope this helps.
@@JamieHitt Great info, Jamie. Thanks much.
Bravo. It’s what I was looking for 😀
👍
I have a question: would you ever recommend any attenuation or padding? Almost every time I record from a soundboard I tend to get a mix that is WAY TOO LOUD, I'll even hear peaking during quiet parts with my input volume as far down as I can make it without losing the signal entirely. BTW this video was AMAZING, awesome advice and great lighting, too! I can tell you're a pro and not just another CZcams vlogger.
Hi Tony, yes, you have to use a pad when you have to. Of course your recorder should be set to line level when taking a feed from a mixing board and usually that will be all you'll need to do, possibly reduce the line level input a bit. But if it is bottomed out, you may still need a pad. But first, confirm you've set your input(s) to line level. Which recorder are you using?
I'm curious if there's a way to catch the input signals before they go to the mixer and send it to a DAW, in case you wanted to get the performance professionally mixed and mastered later.
Yes, my friend Mike Stranks covered this in an interview we had some time ago: czcams.com/video/KPXcjmDl-Eo/video.html
@@curtisjudd thank you so much!
Excellent advice Curtis.
Thanks Richard.
Extremely good advice Curtis, thank you.
You bet, thanks for the feedback!
Great video! I own a Panasonic S5 and I was wondering if I was able to get the sound from a mixing board with an XLR cable straight to camera if I have the 'Panasonic DMW-XLR1 XLR Microphone Adaptor' on top of my camera? Thank you
Yes. Just switch the input to line level.
Definitely saving this video for future reference. Quick noob question. You mentioned a line isolator (I that's what you called it)....is that the same as a passive Di Box? If not how are they similar/different? Thanks!!
Hi Dan, good question. They’re different in that a passive DI box converts an unbalanced signal (such as from a bass, keyboard, or guitar) to a balanced signal which can handle longer cable runs such as back to a mixing board. A line isolator is a transformer that is used to eliminate or reduce hum or buzz issues. They can be similar in that many have a ground lift feature that is another means to eliminate hum. I hope that helps!
That's super helpful Curtis! When I was trying to google and solve my hum issue...Google is only as useful as one's knowledge sometimes and I had never even heard of a line isolator. Thanks again!
This is a great video! Thank you
🙏
Great video thank you. I want to record my vocals and my guitar from my small Mackie Pro FX6V3 board to a Zoom H4n Pro. Should I use a -20db PAD attenuator to the input jacks on the Zoom? I was told it will help keep my recording from being distorted.
Should just need 1/4" on the input of the H4n Pro to force it to line level mode. As long as you don't clip on the Mackie, you should be fine.
@@curtisjudd Thank you, I appreciate your reply.
Another incredible video. I have a question. So you record from the board and then you want to put a room mic down somewhere to get a fuller sound and add some life to the recording. Where's a good place to put the room mic in terms of minimizing phasing?
Brad B I’ve just slapped a couple mics down by the mixer and gotten pretty decent results. Do note that the sound from the board and the sound you get from the room mics are going to be off by a few milliseconds, so you’ll have to sync those in post.
Thanks for the tip so usually by the mixer which makes sense since that's where the sound guy is sitting and knows exactly how it sounds. And then I just manually drag the room mics by a few milliseconds to minimize that delay?
You’re going to want to align them based off of the waveforms since the delay will be different for each setup. Look for something distinct, a loud pop or similar, and use that to align the two. You can do this in any DAW or NLE.
Yes, or invert the phase in post, or even better, use a phase rotation plugin to align the phase. I generally mix the room mics pretty low during performance and then up again when you want the audience reaction/applause, but not always. If it is a space that was not really acoustically designed in the first place (many smaller rock/hip hop venues, wedding reception venues) you may need to rely mainly on the room mics. One example might be where one of the mics is feeding back in the live venue so the mix engineer had to EQ that channel pretty heavily to keep it from feeding back. In the recorded mix, that mic in particular may sound really odd. Or in cases with live bands, mixers will often have to nearly remove loud electric guitar amps from the mix because the amp itself is loud enough in the live venue. So the recording would have none of the guitar (that mic was turned off or nearly off). Hope that makes sense and good luck Brad B!
Thanks trayir, good advice!
Hi Curtis! Really an informative video! I've got a reverse problem. The sound man wants me use an XLR for his soundboard output exclusively. I was wondering if the 1/4-inch input I would need for my new Zoom H5 should be TS, or TRS type? Any help appreciated!
Hi GILLnBARRY, the 1/4" input should be TRS because you want a balanced connection. XLR for output from the board, 1/4" TRS for input into the H5. Best wishes!
How do you get audio straight from the receiver instead of the soundboard
Hi, you can connect wireless receivers directly to your recorder if I understand your question?
Wouldn’t the sound engineer be sending his main outputs to his main FOH speakers? You didn’t mention a splitter or anything?
Yes, certainly. Usually the board will have additional outputs.
As always, very nice and instructive.
Thanks Ramon.
Thank you very much for putting this video together.
You bet! 👍🏻
many thanks for this wonderful video
Why isn't possible to XLR cables to patch to the soundboard with a Zoom H6 ?
Thanks. The H6 requires 1/4" cables to take a line-level feed from the sound board. That is how Zoom made their H series recorders.
This is indeed good advice, Thanks
Thanks.
I am interested in purchasing the Zoom H5N. What cables should I purchase to cover me for all scenarios?
ALL scenarios? Not sure. But I’d start with 1/4” to 1/4” TRS and XLR female to 1/4” TRS pairs.
@@curtisjudd Thank you!
Would I be able to plug my Saramonic Blink 500 Pro wireless system into the soundboard, and run the sound to my camera wirelessly?
If you can get a tape out from the board with a RCA to 3.5mm TRS adapter, it should work.
Hi, thanks again Curtis for this very informative video :I do weddings and I use a zoom F6: how would I connect this? Do I chose “line in” in the menu? And If I want the speeches only, would it be a good idea to use a splitter (with direct and isolated outputs) to get the signal directly into my recorder?
Yes, line level for the input. You’ll need a sub mix from the mixer which only includes the speech.
Hi , thank you so much for this informative video. Could you help me with this question : for the zoom H series the cord i should be using is a 1/4" to 1/4" trs ?
Yes, 1/4" TRS on the side for the zoom H4,5,6 series and either 1/4" TRS or XLR for the mixer side.
Any suggestions how to remove noise from record without losing quality?
czcams.com/video/mEZLwPlu0sU/video.html
Thank you very much for this useful video. A question: to record, in a event, from a speaker, should I use the 1/4 cable -like from a mixer- or the XLR cable? I would say, the out of a speaker is line or microphone level? Thank you very much again.
From the mixing board, you'll want a balanced line output. That can be on a 1/4" TRS cable or XLR cable. On your recorder, you'll set the input to line level.
@@curtisjudd Yes, but I´d like to use the out output of a speaker, not the out of a mixing board. Many speakers have behind, besides a in input, a out output, where you can insert your audio recorder. But is it mic level or line level, this is my doubt. Thank you.
@@joseangel4428 Be very careful and read the documentation for the speaker. It is either line level or speaker level and if it is speaker level, it could damage your audio recorder.
@@curtisjudd Thank you very much.
I've been waiting for an in depth video on this topic exactly for some time now! This was explained very nicely.
Last time I supposedly plugged into a board with an XLR on my Tascam DR-60D MKII I didn't get any audio. It went Tascam > my XLR > into an XLR that the venue said was supposedly plugged into a board, and I didn't get any output when I was on the line setting. Is this normal? What does it mean if I'm getting no audio out when set to "Line" on the DR-60D?
Hi PK Films, hmm, there are a lot of possible factors but if you weren't getting any sound signal at all, could be that the mixer didn't have the routing on the board set correctly.
Thank you so much for this, gave me a lot to think about! I've started filming events using a multi-cam setup (Blackmagic Studio 4K Pro cameras and an ATEM Mini switcher). Would I take a line out of my recorded and into the ATEM Mini to get it synced up, or is there a better suggestions? Thank you!
Yes, and then use the ATEM's sync offset feature to get the audio in sync with the video.
How to you record more than a stereo out from the mix board, more like individual tracks? What would a set up look like to do this?
You either need splitter cables with transformer isolators for each mic/instrument OR you need a feed from the mixer for each mic/instrument. Most of the bigger digital mixing boards have multiple outputs and can support this.
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge!
You are most welcome!
Wish I had seen this two weeks ago! LOL I'll be prepared with the proper etiquette NEXT time...
Ha! We all learn as we live.
So I tried to record my H5 zoom recorder to the Qu-24 mixer but it won’t work? What am I doing wrong?
Not sure, need more details.
Curtis, am I correct in thinking from what you said, using batteries with Tascam, the line isolator is not necessary.?
Generally, but one never knows. I have run into a few inexplicable situations in the past...
@@curtisjudd Thank You
If you are recording from a speaker what mic would best fit to capture sound from a speaker ?
Hi Senoga, if you're miking up close to the speaker, I'd opt for a dynamic microphone. I don't usually record speakers, but an old-school place to start would be with a SHURE SM57.
What is your opinion on using a wireless transmitter / receiver from mixing board to your sound recorder?
Hi Archie, I would use balanced cables instead of wireless whenever possible to avoid all of the challenges and risk that come with wireless. But if wireless is the only option, then I’d go for it. Good luck!
@@curtisjudd My option of choice: use a wired recorder AND send the output wireless to the camera. Easy synch, better sound. In fact, I'm waiting for the industry to create a recording wireless transmitter in one unit: one mic, one battery, SD card. Then it doesn't matter if there are dropouts or noise. Simply swap the audio in post.