Why Do People Love This Speaker!?
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- These types of speakers are touted as the world's best speakers for the price. Have I been wrong this whole time?
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I was shocked, "shocked" to discover that speaker concoction sounded terrible. Haha! Thanks for taking one for the team, Randy, with that audio project. :)
If they were piano black and cost about $10k. An audio magazine would recommend them! 😅😅😅
That made me chuckle
If I recall correctly, the hifi press DID praise a bunch of NXT flat panel speakers about 25 years ago. I tried some, HATED them. 🤷♂️
At that price they would have look wood and retro. Black just looks too cheap 😁
Randy, The funniest thing about this video was your face whenever those ‘speakers’ were playing. You didn’t need to describe the sound your face said it all! 😂
Yes, that's a very unhappy face. I loved how quickly he could identify their faults and the differences between the two panels.
“I got this recipe for bread, I’m gonna wing it with instructions “
It’s the lack of room treatment😂
I was thinking it was the non-thousand dollar cables
"Garbage"
Even the power of social media can't change the laws of physics.
"Hot Garbage" That was the name of my garage band as a teenager! Of course it sounded crappy!
My wife says looks don’t matter if they’re well hung. I have no idea what she means or course. Kudos for thinking outside the box.
any audio gear that the wife likes, isn't worth buying
that's what she said....
Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.
Thanks for taking one for the team.
I saw the same video a few years ago and decided to make the speakers. I used the same parameters as the professor that made the video. Especially placement of the exciters. As you profess, they didn’t sound great when I made them. I used an in-line capacitor as a cheap crossover. I bought a 10 inch subwoofer from Goodwill and I hooked them up to a, The Fisher 195. They are in my garage where there is a lot of room. I still have to turn down the treble on the fisher. You can make them sound decent, but you have to put some work into them.
@cheapaudioman, It's really funny that you made this video, because building this speaker myself ultimately led me to find your channel. I was initially into headphones and decided I wanted to experiment with speakers at an affordable price. That and I was looking for a project to do with my father-in-law to build our relationship. Built them, sounded terrible, decided maybe it was the crappy amp I used. Looked for a cheap decent amp, found your review of the Aiyima amps. Bought the amp, came to the same conclusions you did on the speakers. Now I have Jamo speakers (per your review) connected to the Aiyima and am happy I went down that journey.
DMS (CZcamsr) also had an interesting take on these speakers... He used a thinner foam core, but 12 of them and mounted them to completely cover a wall. He then used a ton of software to correct the missing frequencies. It looked cool and he said that it produced a unique "expansive" sound that was decent but ultimately was a lot of work to get a that sound.
No replacement for displacement. Good enclosures are the majority of the fidelity.
Omg, the entertainment value...
Between the sound being produced, the song selection, the look on your face as you tried to say something redeeming about the outcome and finally the look on my dog's face as i laughed until i cried. What a fun video. Thanks Randy! 😂
It's hilariousness at the angry look on your face that the speakers are giving you
People should try out some medicine, was the best. 😂
Tech ingredients channel did some videos on worlds best speakers 5 or 6 years ago that looked promising or at least like a fun experiment. Alot more in depth than the TikTok crap.
I'm betting he (tech ingredients) originated the design.
@@bryanmcgivney3778 I think Tech Ingredients was the one who came up with this design. I watched that video years ago. You can even see that video at 1:10 in this video. I'm pretty sure it just spread much more on Tiktok and that's where most people hear about this.
If I remember correctly, Tech Ingredients also glued some metal bars at certain locations across the back of the foam board to help with resonance or something. The few videos I saw replicating this speaker never included this step. How much this will actually help to be seen.
@@bryanmcgivney3778 That's a bet you would lose, these types of speakers have been around for years.
@@bryanmcgivney3778 yes
Yes, Tech Ingredients was the OG poster, with instructions on how to make separate bass panels too, out of ceiling tiles.
Very complete, detailed instructions.
Have you watched the videos of the original creators? I think it was tech ingredients. If I'm not mistaken, the panels looked different, and they already stated you need a sub. They also superglued the exitors to the panels.
In one of Lenny's recent videos he travels to a vintage store in PA and toward the end of the video the store owner shows him a pair of speakers that are remarkably similar to these in concept. Lenny was impressed.
Check it from the 15:30 mark to see the Bertagni speakers... almost the exact same thing, which leads me to believe the shape of the panel and the frame have a lot to do with the sound. Thanks for taking the time to build it Randy.
I played around with these a couple of years ago. You need to sand off the panels until dull and apply two coats of 50/50 water and white carpenter glue.
Apply heavy duty foam weather stripping around the edges. This improves the sound.
In my dedicated listening room, they were fun, more like being at a live concert, warts and all. But they certainly aren't hi-fi by any stretch. They do scale well with high end amps which really surprised me.
I doubt if the technology could be improved even if the panels were made of some near perfect materials.
It’s two weeks later and this guy is still finding purple foam dust from sanding in his dining room
Magged a watch once and it suuucked. Mom and Dad gave me a Milguass for grad in 94 and to this day it's my go to for high energy contracts. Love it. Those noise emitters are seriously old skool dorm noise speakers. This was great. Thanks Randy.
Techingredients did a way more involved video on CZcams that seems like a way more legit build than the Tictoc video.
Exactly, also explains everything using data and with more than just his personal opinion.
Couple things,
1, ceiling tile, the kind used for absorbtion, or something similar. Plain packing type foam board isnt really gonna do much.
2. Mount them using rubber bands in the corners to hooks on the wall putting them maybe an inch away from the wall,
3. I used a 4x8 sheet for my builds
4. run dsp correction. Mine are hooked to my 4x8 for a reason
5. Sub or bassbin woofer for everything below 200hz
Ive got 4 4x8 panels hooked up around the living room with 2 6 inch woofers in 2 corners, everything sounds pretty darn good. Nothing like this demo. But yes, was a good bit of work to get it done like this.
Almost positive the problem is you still need crossover and need 1 exciter on a pannel to do highs and 1 on a pannel for lower end. You can try it since you already have everything you need(now half the size lol) but will end up with one speaker channel. Would be a fun test and an extra video if it came out sounding good
If he was playing it back and it sounded full-range, but was having trouble with distortion and maintain control, then this would make sense. But separating the frequencies isn't going to magically make the setup capable of playing frequencies down low.
I seem to recall the original creators said something along those lines
I already pretty much knew they were gonna sound exactly like you described, so yeah... Gimmick, nothing more, nothing less, LOL!
Audio myth busting and experimenting. Love it!
Are those Deposition Sound FDM5 loudspeakers in the background?! ;)
"This time on Mythbusters, Randy delves into...." I can hear the theme music now.
Thank you Randy for this video!! I came across the tech ingredients video a couple years back and have been super curious about these. I appreciate that you took a great attention to detail and created these in the same exact way other videos have instructed. Im almost positive if I would have done these, I would have had the same exact result you did. I'm pretty sure your issue lies in the exciter itself. I would try to use the same exact one Tech Ingredients used, as he does not come off as a guy that would try to decieve his audience.
Ha! I was listening to this video using my Fosi Audio T20 tube amplifier and a pair of Sony SS-CS5 speakers (which I love) and yeah, those makeshift speakers do not sound great, but for someone interested in tinkering around with an audio experiment, I hope they have fun with the learning process while not expecting amazing sound as a result. :)
AWESOME CONTENT!! That was a fun project and a great watch.. :)
I have a friend who has built these speakers. He used 4 panels, 2 on each side, so the exciter placement was identical on both sides. After sanding, he also coated the panels with mix of water and PVA glue. He used epoxy to put the hooks in the foam to hang them. The panels where then painted black with a specific spray paint. He built a rack to hold the panels taut at the corners. They sound amazing. He does use a sub with them to cover the lowest frequency but the sound is detail, spacious, the highest are natural and airy.
“Blown 80’s Tv speaker”😂. My wife showed me this tik tok video, thinking she found a replacement to my big NHT 2.9s…..i am going to show this video to her. 😂
LOL! That put me in good mood before going to work.😂
Good tip regarding drive unit magnets. Lowther magnets are so powerful that the manufacturers recommend storing the drivers in sealed plastic bags. If you get a little magnetic detritus in the magnet gap then the driver will need dismantling to clear it out...
I work at a cardboard packaging company, and as a fun project built these out of reboard (2 layers of paper separated by a honeycomb structure) Also stiff and lightweight. Same results all high-mid, no lower end. Paired them with a little sub, and now they sound decent enough to act as good conversation starter. ( Yep, even our speakers are made from paper ) Was able to full colour print the reboard though. That gives it a nice touch. Nice video!
I have always thought about installing those exciters to put behind the wall of the shower. I haven't, because that's way to much work for bad sound, but I've thought about it.
I believe exiter placement position is the most important design consideration for these sound radiators. Also thickness and flexibility of a pannel should matter a lot.
You need some No-Rez and tube connectors.
Needs expensive components for the crossovers!
edit: spelling
Exciters do have their place, but not here. My sister and brother in-law were building a house and wanted to have background music in their living room for when they entertain guests. They were going to use in-wall speakers, but my sister didn't want to be able to see them.I suggested putting exciters in the attic space. We attached the exciters to the ceiling Sheetrock between the joists, one in each corner (total of 4). We connected them to a Dayton audio class D amp, and for background music, they sounded rather good. Great for Christmas music. They were thrilled with the results and the fact they don't have to look at them. It's all about the application and expectation.
I too was drawn back into the hifi audio world by the evil allure of the dyi panels.
Yes, the DYI foam panels are absolute crap. That said, the foam does have remarkable sound transfer properties so I decided to try a different route. First I needed an affordable yet decent and highly flexible, basic stereo system. So, based on many of your recommendations and lots of research I settled on the Fosi BT30 amp and their matching little pre-amp. (Amazing stuff) Then I added a Pyle 6 zone selector to be able to isolate and AB lots of speaker combinations. I grabbed a couple of cheap 6 inch Sony subs for $20 from the thrift store. I bought a pair of Klispch 500 rp bookshelves and I re-foamed my dad's old early 90's AT-8 Vegas. Finally I decided to try the dyi panels. The first thing I did was to not slap an actuator on a flat panel and call it done. I used my 30 or so years experience in the audio visual world and as an artist and maker to shape and construct the foam into proper speaker heads. I then placed them into a housing with soft surrounds just like an actual speaker...duh. Right out of the gate I knew I was on to something. They sounded incredibly clear and rich. My guess is that the cellular nature of the foam is a more efficient transfer medium than compressed paper. I can't speak. to the other types of cone materials used. All the needed frequencies are in those little full spectrum actuators but you have to tease them out with the proper shapes. It took about 3-4 months of prototyping and experimentation to understand what works and doesn't but I can say with some conviction that they are actually now superior to the manufactured speakers I currently have access to. For one they have far more latitude in tuning than speakers with built in crossovers or preset tunings. Being able to shape the sound to the desired texture is what I am fundamentally after and I'll never be able to afford Band and Olufsen speakers so I'm left with figuring it out myself.
Bottom line is, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. You really can dyi good speakers using stone knives and bearskins as Spock once famously said as he cobbled together a video time machine from 1930's electronics.
Pretty cool you served on the Nevada. Not many folks can make that claim. Thanks for your service! Did you ever make a tour into Puget Sound? I've seen her in the straits here over the years.
This was fun! Now you've got me thinking. What would happen if you used plexiglass, really thin, with those exciters? Or maybe a really thin plank of Masonite? Or sheet aluminum? What the hell, Randy, this could be a whole series!
I built a larger pair with rectangular foam board, 2 ft X 3 1/2 ft and used 2 exciters on each, all exciters mounted in the offset (Non-central) position. Got them hanging up in my workshop and they sound fairly reasonable to me, but only with the sub connected as well. Without the sub I'd have been snapping them up after a couple of days.
Nice little project providing you have a sub. Wouldn't have them in the house though. Great in the garage.
The pair I made sounded pretty good. I ran then through a subwoofer with an adjustable crossover. Gotta have a subwoofer. I never used them because I have no place to hang them.
Try dancing around like a lunatic and then sprinkle them with a little bicarbonate of soda... makes them sound like Wharfedale Dentons, I swear it's true 🤞!
That was funny Randy! Problem was you used cheap imported crap to drive them - you should hear these on a pair of Macintosh mini blocks. and sith audio wire to hang them
Saves me the time and money. Thanks! I've been exciter curious for a couple years.
I built the ones with the acoustic ceiling tiles, and they sound ten times better than the ones with the thick foam. I'm not an audiophile, but for the price i've never had a more room-filling non-directional sound than what i get from these.
I built these as well, put a lot of thought into building and mounting them (suspended with fishing wire etc). I did the 4 panel setup (squared edge and rounded edge pair with slightly offset exciter placement), then I wired in a subwoofer to get those frequencies below 120HZ. All that, played them and you are completely right, they are tinny, peaky hot garbage. They look cool, and I have kept them there, however I never use them and stick to my pair of Tannoys.
Thanks for sharing the truth.
I made these years ago when tech ingredients first video came out. It reminded me of a car factory whizzer cone that I threw in the trash.
Cheap Garage Audio Man? Great video!
The sound impression I got invoked memories of when I was in junior high, and would take old car speakers and mount them in cardboard boxes to make a cheap garage system.
I knew it wouldn't be the best speaker design or else other reputable companies would be doing it but I didn't think it would be that bad. Thanks for still being an inquisitive person and making this video!
The corners should be radiused because it changes the resonance pattern(s) of the panel. The other big issue is they are 2' wide - they will be very directional above about 563Hz - which is smack in the midrange. They are dipole i.e. the sound also comes off the back of the panel; so that backwave will help somewhat? Like you say - they are open baffle speakers. So bass is cancelled out, by definition.
The shish kabob skewers will slightly affect the panel's resonances, as well.
If you have a fan blowing in the room, or you have the windows open and there is a breeze through the room - these speakers are possibly going to swing a bit?
I use 2" screws to hang the panels, works great and no glue.
My father has a set of vintage speakers from the 1970's that are literally exactly this. I think they were by Toshiba or something IIRC. Walnut picture frames and an aluminum frame on the backside that also supports the magnet/motor from the backside. They actually have TWO motors/coils on each one - a large one with the coil attached to the larger part of the foam (but thinener) for bass and smaller motor/coils with the coils attached to the upper corners where the foam is thicker for tweeters. I recal them actually sounding rather good.
I built these exactly as they did on tech ingedients - with additional 4x2 panels from ceiling tiles, and hung them just like he did, across our barn. Powered with aiyima t9, and threw in a sub. They didnt compete with any of my real speakers - but to people not into the hobby they sounded great. And the investment was maybe $100. I'd say if you want a cool project with your kids, or to have a conversation piece at your next party....definitely worth the time and cost
This.
That is exactly what I said. You have to take some time and do some experiments with it, but I found that a cheap crossover capacitor and the subwoofer made a world of difference. They are in my garage and people are amazed that the sound is coming from these panels. Fun project!
The long pins you used for hanging will definitely alter the sound by making that area of the panel more rigid. I saw the original video by Tech Ingredients a few years ago. I'd hang them by using a large needle to thread either embroidery thread or fishing line thru the panel.
Sounds like B&W, KEF, Dynaudio... 😄
Wonderful and hilarious video, Randy, thanks!
Thank you so much! Really appreciate the support, my friend
Cable risers would make it sound great. LMAO!
That was the best laugh this week...
I need recommendations for a vintage style set of bookshelf speakers that sound better than the Panasonics I bought for $10. They need to match the style of my zenith allegro record player.
BSR did the foam speaker thing in the 70’s/80’s. Actually sounded pretty good, but the styrofoam panels were much more complicated, and the “exciter” part was rigidly mounted to a frame at the rear. These foam panels seem way too heavy, as well. Oof.
Haven't tried to use exciters with foam, but for my bedroom tv, where I didn't have room for speakers and didn't want anything visible, I used the exciters on my headboard. Sounds great, especially compared to the built in speakers of the TV.
But of course that's all based on a compromise, and probably is not nearly as good as just having an actual speaker.
DML's are design dependent, the better the design the better they will sound. The design you built is an entry level beginners design intro into DML technology.
Thank you - that was very entertaining!
Meanwhile, I just got a deal on 5 Definitive Technology speakers, with onboard powered subs, AND an Onkyo 6.1 receiver, with wire, off Craigslist...
Haven't had a chance to test them yet, but any suggestions on setup/placement?
I'm doing a surround setup in a small room, so... Yeah, bass shouldn't be a problem, but I'm worried that I'll get too many overlapping waves, since the subs will be facing weird directions.
“Absolutely terrible!”. 😂 it’s a wrap folks. 😂
Nice experiment! I think we knew where that was going, but i was willing to be surprised 🤷🏻♂️
I always wanted to try these as atmos speakers
So much fun watching this one. Brilliant!
Randy, the failure of your speaker build is obviously from not having used Sith Audio high-fidelity exciter tape to affix the drivers to the panels and their associated panel hanger hooks. A classic newbie mistake. Available for only $799 per panel.
Hey fellow squid (75-81) I've seen the other videos about these speakers and they were a lot of fun. Great future science project for your kids!
thanks for your service!!!!
I built a pair of these using the 2'x4' plastic cardboard you can find in art supply stores. They actually sounded pretty good, very detailed highs and a fairly rich and full mid range, however, they had absolutely no bass. Definitely need a good sub to go with them.
Had a friend try and make one of these that are actually full-range, and he spent about a grand on TTs and filled his place up with random material trying to get it to work right.
In the end, I know he made something that sounded pretty good, but it wasn't worth the effort.
Saw this speaker build project back around the time I first started following you and it seemed too good to be true. But there were a bunch of CZcams videos on how to build these. It’s been about 2 years since I watched them, but there are tuning tips to make the sound better. One thing I recall is that you need more distance between the speakers.
I made some too. I used better exciters; They sound terrible, but it is a super interesting project. It’s impressive that a foam board sounds this good, but it’s not a good speaker.
I just don't have time for that..... LOL
I'm impressed it played at all.
In most of the other implementations I’ve seen, the panel has been hung up against a wall. I’m wondering if that makes it sound even better?
I don't have the experience with a variety of speakers like you do, but I made these according to the Tech Ingredients youtube video. There are key differences that may be impacting the sound. I think your exciters are way too big and heavy, so not letting the board vibrate. The hangers are too long, not letting it vibrate. The board appears to be 1 inch, not 3/4, not allowing it to vibrate, you see a theme? I can't say they're the best, but when paired with a woofer for the low end, they sound really good to me.
11:29 to 11:35 is the best thing I've ever seen on this channel.
That's not a knock, it just had me in tears laughing!
I literally watched, unfortunately, a two hour video by a sound engineer who also was a physics major make these with 1/4 inch plywood. 😂😂😂 I guess I love watching speaker videos!
I saw the video for these years ago. I was shocked anyone even build these. As someone who has been a physicist an audio guy for 40 years and built at least 25 speakers and gone actual audio engineering. I commented that there was no way these were not awful. They tried to roast me. Oh no my friend..
Thank you I was going to try these,but not now.
I always heard the 2/3 ratio thing for mounting position was the same for both speakers, except mirror images of each other. One exciter in the middle sounds wrong, but probably wouldn't make a huge difference in overall sound IMO. I made a pair once, and for mid-range voices like Sarah McLachlan, they sounded amazing and more in-person than any other speaker I'd ever heard. The bass buzzed on mine though, and they were ugly pink, so eventually they got trashed. I kept one exciter just in case mounting it to a motorcycle helmet makes for more volume / better sound than typical headphone-sized drivers used there.
I’ve seen the original video. I’m thinking GATORBOARD which is like very dense foamcore. There are many types of these thingys. I would have built it EXACTLY like the engineer prof in the original video. He did a lot of testing with materials etc to arrive at the final product. This type of thing is standard stuff in the world of museum displays and trade show setups that need audio. Fun video.
We need a audio room/cave tour! How much gear do you have!
Acoustic ceiling tiles are waaay better than the foam in my experience. Very little bass extension (needs a sub), but the clarity from the celling tiles was great. I also used the slightly better exciters.
I've played around with some of these exciters from parts express (dayton audio) and it really depends on what you attach them to. Try different materials and thickness of those materials. Cardboard can be fairly good. They have one that's mega bass exciter and those actually have some thump to them but lacks some in the highs. Any of these exciters can sound great but just depends on what you put them to.
I made these a couple years ago. Know what they work great for? Rear, sides, and/or overhead surrounds/atmos when you have limited placement options. Also for garage speakers.
No way would I use them as Front L or R in any 2 channel or theater system.
Hey Randy, would love to see you do the ABX Open Baffle build.
I used a big piece of plexiglass and 2 10w exciters and was blown away by how good they sounded. I uploaded a couple videos of them.
If you actually construct these according to directions using the proper drivers, hang them PROPERLY (which will YES rule them out for most people), and supplement them with sub woofers to provide the bass, I think you would end up something that sounds much better. GIGO? When you go into a project with a defeatist attitude using subpar ingredients you end up with a subpar experience. Try building a Sony SSCS5 with "whatever you have laying around" , using whatever tools you happen to have even tho doing so you know going in would kill it, then what, you think you're gonna end up with a perfect clone of the Sony? I Don't THINK so..............
You’re right.
Came back to my summer home in Minnesota to find other transducers had fallen off in the freezing cold garage. Suspect phoenix might fare no better.
Thanx I almost was going to try this which would have led to a mental burn out!
Was checking out the Demons below and have no idea how I came across a speaker called: Music Note/Grand Symphony. Sticker price about $8,000 CAN and on sale for $3,000, I believe at a high end retailer in Ottawa. Anyone ever heard if them? I sent in some questions.
Would you say they sound like a hunk of foam that you glued an exciter to?
The Wright Brothers first aircraft could not loop the loop but this concept if developed more, it could soar!
Yeah, I tried the exciter thing way back when Partsexpress started selling them. Definitely not meant for hi-fi purposes. More for point of sale displays where it would be cool that sound is coming from no speakers... I bought a portable dayton speaker that also had an exciter as the sound source it was tolerable but it was a pocket sized speaker.
If it where that easy to make a good sounding speaker some manufacture would be making them and selling them for 2k each
Perfect for placing in the washroom, auto play when people enter, the folks don't take long with their business in order to save what remains of their sanity, and out the door really quick! 👍
THEN it occurred to me that if you apply the "audiophile rule of "the more money you throw at them the better they sound", well, then, of course they ought to start sounding "audiophile grade" at around the $15000 mark. Not sure which component you sink the most money into, unless it's best you apply the "thin green slivers of paper" equally across the build. But of course, one must remember to apply an "audiophile badge" to the front of the system so that one's eyes know to alert the ears that "audiophile grade" sound waves will be arriving soon after a button is pushed or a needle is dropped.