Game of Thrones: Littlefinger v Varys - Battle of Ideologies
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- čas přidán 10. 03. 2018
- In the second episode of our "Battle of Ideologies" series, we discuss the philosophies Littlefinger and Varys in HBO's Game of Thrones. Support ScreenPrism on Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=7792695
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ScreenPrism really the best! Thank you for all your great content
What if Littlefinger lives? The faceless men played their role while Littlefinger escaped.
chaos isn't a pit... chaos is a laddaah!
Shit analysis, you clearly don't understand what Littlefinger is about. Shame
@@KOWAL19898 Care to elaborate on your analytical approach? ...
When you realize Game of Thrones is simply Varys and Littlefinger playing chess..
Against each other but Varys doesn't enjoy sacrifice.
Bruh
@Jay Blabla12 Aww, too bad.. It's 422 now.....
@Jay Blabla12 Lol, in case you were making a veiled threat; Lame, if you weren't.
@Jay Blabla12 I know but it felt weird and out of place. Anyways, which is your fav House?
Varys is like Ned Stark with more cunning and without honor. Honestly I find him to be one of the most morally righteous people in the series... as his power could have corrupted him so easily, and yet he still chooses to use his talents for what he believes will save the realm. He may be called "the spider" but frankly I see him as a bit of a hero in his own right.
He's not a hero, he's merely the brighter side of the dark coin of power. He's the Jedi to the Littlefinger's Sith. It's only the absence of understanding the terrible nature of power that makes the brighter side of it seem heroic.
By that logic, no one with power could possibly be a hero. How does one help people with the absolute absence of power?
This is not to say people we typically view as "powerless" cannot do heroic deeds, but they do so with the little power they do have... and the effects of their deeds are objectively not as far-reaching as those who have much power.
He does heroic work in silence else he would bs killed.. it's like being a little smart so you can live longer than just being a mere hero which killed ned stark btw
So do I.
@@ehsteve231 well said. I have never thought about heroism in the context of a power hierarchy before.
In the books littlefinger is not predictable!!
Everybody trust him and almost nobody knows that he control power from the shadows.
THIS. People TRUSTED him and saw him as this like helpful person. "Book little finger, if book littlefinger, in the book, everybody trusts him. He's very friendly and helpful...he's always ready to help." - George RR Martin
Yeah well D&D don't know how to write truly intelligent characters so there's that
That was a grammatical landmine
You need to dumb things down on tv. Plus you can’t teach people how to spot sociopaths. Think of the effects of informed masses. Can’t have that. Lol.
@@theempoweredarmy8014 Just because TV characters are often dumbed down doesn't mean they NEED to be dumbed down. You could argue that both Baelish and Varys are Gustavo Frings who put on an act like Saul Goodman.
Book Littlefinger is subtle, seemingly harmless, and very very dangerous and unpredictable. He's out for himself, but in a way that you can't figure out what he's up to.
Book Varys is much more overtly dangerous. EVERYBODY suspects him, but also depends on him. And nobody knows what his goals are. I don't buy his "for the good of the Realm" rhetoric. He helped start the war of five kings, on purpose, as part of a plot with Illyrio to stick Dany on the Throne. Or Young Griff. Maybe. Even that's not clear. That's a huge amount of suffering for no clear "good of the Realm." The fan theory is that he's a secret Blackfyre
So Varys and Littlefinger are opposites on the show, but in the books, they are very similar. Varys is much more obviously what he is, but his ultimate motivations are also much more mysterious.
By far two of the biggest players in the game...
palemoonlight96 I'd go as far as saying the only two player in the game
I would count Illyrio, Doran Martell (only books in GoT he was incompetent), Tywinn and Olenna also as players.
But Varys and Littlefinger are obvious S-Tier.
Don't forget Tyrion
Not sure a dead man can be one of the biggest players in the game.
I would also say Tywin Lannister was a great player as well. He had the perfect balance of sympathy and cruelty.
I miss when the show was partly about royal shenanigans with cersei, olenna, margarie, varys, littlefinger and so on. It was so smart and interesting to watch their attempts to decieve. Now its all about fighting and the good/evil line is very clearly drawn.
Yeah, it used to have smart writing and characters. By the end, it was basically a medieval Marvel in which various Starks have superpowers.
@Gaius Wyrden nope. Clearly you havent been watching. She was neither good nor evil. She was just Cersei
@Gaius Wyrden the writers fucked up. The books were better.
@@893263007 aren’t all the Starks wargs in the books?
I agree I love stories where it's not always clear who's good and who's bad. Where the characters mortality are ambiguous and there are also characters that only see things in Black and White
CHAOS ISNT A PIT. CHAOS IS A LADDAH.
Chaos is a Larder
I convinced myself that it isn’t “ladder”, is just “laddah”
'Chaos is a ramp'- bran the broken
bro the "DAH" in the end and ur turtle profile pic just smashes hahahahaha wtf
i cant stop laughing :(
Varys is a true Machiavellian. He abandons restricting morals, but he does so for a purpose.
Varys doesn't want to get on the Throne. Indeed, he can't - that basically the point in Eunuch - they can't found dynasties.
Westeros is already a bloodied, shattered and bankrupt realm, and the idea horrifies him. He argues that Ned Stark be allowed to take the Black. He tried to prevent the war of five kings. And when all seems lost for stability, he brings the Martells and Tyrells onside with Dany, and works with Tyrion (the only redeemable Lannister, in his view)..
Machiavelli argued against "acquistare imperio, ma non gloria" - that is, "power, but not glory". Varys doesn't want power, he wants glory and victory for the realm, and he's willing to do anything to achieve it.
I always saw Varys as the wheel for a new order. Even if he work for king i think he can be responsible of the fall of monarchy for another power like an empire or democracy (more likely an empire).
It's true he always act for the good but sometimes the good hide and ugly truth. And he hides things (like we never know what become of the sorcerer.) I would even guess he hide his true will to himself.
It's funny when i watched that video and they mention that he work for the people, it remind me of Bane's and Donald Trump speech's; "We give back the power to the people". A thing that is also done by Daenarys but she does it for the ego.
The war was basically over… Yeah, just what people said in June 1940 in our world. ;)
War in North was brewing without Varys help. Dorne was never going to settle down, even in books peace there is only superficial.
Cersei first empowered Faith and then destroyed it with most members of Tyrell's house.
AndSeven Kingdoms are twice indebted to Iron Bank of Bravoos. Or maybe even thrice: Lannisters owe money to them, Baratheons of Dragonstone owe them money and probably there is debt dating back to Robert's reign.
"Varys does want power - for his goals" Yes, that he does. Because Machiavelli is all about using all means at once disposal to achieve the utmost important goal: peace and prosperity for people of Italy. And ruler that wants power just for power's sake is not a person that will achieve this goal. Same is true for Seven Kingdoms.
And we should not forget, that Varys plan to reinstate Targaryens on Iron Throne had started way before Robert's death and that person who started War of Five Kings is no other but Littlefinger.
wildhorse891... uh no.
@wildhorse891 Don't mix !bookVarys with !TVseriesVarys. First one might be Blackfyre by blood, he has shown himself to be Blackfyre agent...
...however, with Daenerys as force of her own he might try to rejoin both branches of dragon blood family.
Littlefinger”Knowledge is power”
Bran”hold my ale”
"Power is power"
Dat's fuuny
Bran : "Plot is Power"
I still believe little finger is in game and can sit on iron Thrones
@@himanshubhawsar1493 i'm with you on that brother, "Littlefinger would see the realm burn if he could be king of the ashes."
his motions are in play
I think u should do next in the Battle of Ideologies: Margaery vs Cersei or Tywin vs Tyrion.
Nathan Coutinho Margaery vs Cersei is great! If there's any i'll be watching it for days
or Tywin vs Lady Olenna
Cersei vs Daenerys
Margaery=a pawn of her grandmother
@Nathan Coutinho -- Howzabout *Margaery vs Catelyn...?*
Having watched season 8 ep 5, this is an OOOOOOOOF
bad writing. Littlefinger would never really care so much about Sansa; his first priority is himself. He would not have died that way in S7E7, and it was stupid. The writers just did not know what to do with his character anymore. The whole end of S7 and S8 were rushed as heck...
Lol
@@MoonwalkerKari The problem are the show runners since they started diverging from the books main arcs.
@@masacatior fax
@@Infammo I'm sure you do think it's "pretty decent". You probably think the same about the taste of yellow snow and crayons.
Littlefinger: The game is chess and I can see 10 moves ahead
Also Littlefinger: I BEG YOU SANSA!
That‘s why they ruined his character. The real littlefinger would never get killed in a such dumb way. He would never do mistakes like that.
Bad writing of D&D Writings was Littlefingers real killer.
Shansha*
How could you factor in magic? Lol
@@missyfrog1 what do you mean lol
@@MrShoopezino I assume bran saw his betrayal and his sister believes him totally.
It's too soon to study Varys' character. The show simplified him too much and the books aren't over with him yet.
Sancez Agreed.I hate how show simplified him and his motivations.
Yeah, he's definitely not 'good' in the books. He deforms little children, he's not 'for the people'.
I really like how the actor portrays the character, but it's true that in the books he is much, much more complex
The actor is perfect for him, the writers are the problem.
Sancez agreed
Little fingers story line in the books makes much more sense. His plan to marry Sansa to Harry the Heir helps achieve his plan, and dosnt turn Sansa against him.
I do not believe he wants Sansa to marry Harry the Heir, and not just because of his desire for her. Check Jacob Preston's Prepping for Winter. Littlefinger advises Sansa/Alayne how to flirt with a guy... but this does not lead to marriage, more likely leads to rape. Alayne's taken virginity (or possibility) could buy Baelish more time as Lord Paramount.
What he plans to do with Sansa truly?
Sansa has a claim on North, small claim on Riverlands... but also even smaller claim on Harrenhall (grandmother Minisa Whent).
Alayne Stone being legitimized (only a King could legitimize a bastard, but Sweetrobin loves Alayne... he could be manipulated into taking back crown of Kings of Vale) would give Alayne claim on Harrenhall.
Some Starks are dead, some believed to be, but as Catelyn stated, there other heirs. Stark girl married to Vale and her issue married to other strong houses of Vale. And Waynwoods are described as "horse-faced", which should be Stark look. Littlefinger likely knows this. And Harry is ward of Lady Waynwood. Littlefinger will probably make some sort of deal with Waynwoods... to take power over North, Vale and possibly Riverlands.
"Every possible series of events is happening all at once..."
-Peter Baelish on quantum superposition
"He would see this country burn, if he could be king of the ashes."
Amazing how well this quote works for our modern day politics.
I wouldn't trust Varys any more than Littlefinger. He says he's for the realm and the good of the people. But he is a master manipulator and spymaster. if these seasons/books have taught anything, it's to always expect the unexpected and never assume anything.
There's always the exception though.
Do we know enough about Varys to know his ideology? I still feel like there are things we don't understand about Varys.
eizhowa exactly that's why he scares me more than lilfinger
eizhowa It is easier to make this kind of video about Varys from the show.There we know a lot about his motivation.But Varys from the books is much more mysterious and ruthless.
Nesreen FS Good point. Littlefinger was largely figured out when he died.
True. Varys' ultimate goal is unknown. How anyone could even pretend to know what he is working towards baffles me. Especially since we don't even have any idea what the voice in the fire said.
to me the difference between the two is little finger admits what he is while varys hides behind the realm for an excuse
The showdown for the iron throne should’ve came down to these two in the end...two characters who have been essentially running the whole game for well over two decades. They represent the true political struggle. Peace vs. Chaos.
Varys’s line about Littlefinger willing to be king of the ashes could’ve easily and fantastically incorporated into the finale.
Littlefinger should’ve helped Sansa and Jon regain the North WITHOUT trading her to the Boltons (absolutely ridiculous move) to keep their implicit trust. Then, when Dany inevitably comes to Westeros he can use Sansa’s trust in him to stir more chaos between her, Jon, Arya, and Danaerys. This would tie in with burning down Kings Landing. Varys all the while works with Dany as he was and the two are on opposing sides and we get more dialogue and scenes between them (the best dialogue in the show).
Eventually Littlefinger is named warden of the south, where Varys comes forward and reveals one more “little bird” and Bran, the three eyed raven, reveals Baelish’s secrets. Arya and Sansa are there as well as the Starks confront him, and while Petyr sits on the Iron Throne, Danaerys has Drogon burn him to death along with the throne. King of his own ashes.
I mean there’s lots of holes in the plot to get there, but as a general outline that would’ve been sooooo much more poetic.
Well... That definitely would have been better than what we got!
You should have just wrote the fucking show lmao
Yes. Yesssss. I love these two, especially when you rewatch the show and pick up on things you miss and see just how intensely these two are really playing the Game (...of Thrones (roll credits!)) against their respective rivals/each other.
Both are such fun characters. Littlefinger is one of the "love to hate em" characters who gets his well-deserved comeuppance where as Varys comes on screen and I'm like "oh thank god where has he been what has he been up to that can hELP."
Awesomely said but I really like little finger. It isn't a love/hate relationship though.
Fuck the show, read the books! 😂
Littlefinfer is classic horror villain. Bullied by popular kids as a teenager, now he’s psycho who’s getting revenge on all of them
Filip Mihailovic Not a true psycho,but I agree about everything else.
Varys is a pretty destructive character if you think about it. He actually plots to overthrow a monarch when they don’t meet his standards. And he doesn’t realize that this cycle causes more chaos for the other players to abuse.
He even was in the group plotting to overthrow Robert the most chill king and bring back the Targaryens who have a reputation to go mad.
He turned on Danny as soon as he found out that there was a male Targaryen, a better suitor to the throne and as soon as she dismissed his ideals.
When you read the books, you realize how ridiculous both these characters are on the show
@Zimmit's FunHouse Adventure Even before S7 the showrunners made some rather dumb changes in their characters. In the books, Hand of the King Tyrion is legit the first person (aside from Varys) who ever suspects that Littlefinger is more dangerous than he seems, and shouldn't be trusted. And even Tyrion underestimates him. Book Littlefinger is a helpful little guy that everyone thinks is good at his job, but too lowborn to be ambitious or seek power, even after he's made Lord of Harennhal and marries Lysa Arryn people are just like "Littlefinger would be great for the small council, he's clever and won't abuse his position for his own gain cause he's too weak". In the show it's made to seem like Littlefinger flaunts his ambition around, and yet people trust him because they're too stupid to understand.
Varys they managed decently up until he leaves King's Landing, at which point they legit just ditched the Young Griff plotline in favor of Varys doing nothing for a good couple of seasons.
@@mrmcawesome9746 The decline begin with season 5.
But Littlefinger didn't die due to being a self serving snake. He died because they ran out of material and turned the show from a political show where every character is more or less in a gray moral area, to an action flick. He started acting really dumb when they ran out of books... I don't think that's simple correlation.
Adrian Jutronich exactly!
agreed. So frustrating how the character who put this whole series of events in motion as the ultimate mastermind had such a lackluster and bland end. They turned him into a dumbfounded idiot in Season 7
His death was always going to be by Sansa's hands. Martin has already explained the ending of every character to D&D. The path taken by them was stupid. But end was as described by Martin
Raj Khan and?
+Raj Khan I honestly didn't mind them killing him off by the end of the season, they were putting the character out of his misery in a series he no longer belongs to. Think S1 LF, he could have gotten out of that in at least 7 different ways, here he just pleaded for his life. What I loved as a GoT fan was how someone just playing the titular game of thrones can rise in power. Think House of Cards, in a medieval fantasy setting, made by HBO. In the first seasons the war was just in the background, but the actions of the big players (LF, Varys, Tyrion, Tywin) is what moved the plot forward. Now every episode is just action, and good guys vs bad ice zombies. That's not what I signed up for, and neither is Martin, which is vocally Anti War.
The "fall" of Littlefinger is due to bad script not of the caracter himself....there is only hollywood now....no epicness.... every dialogue was epic.... directors should stay in directing...
Ellinon Enosis Well yeah obviously...they signed up for an adaptation and figured GRRM would have a new book(s) done but he didn't
@@heyitswolfz6695 with the content they had they could have done 10 seasons at least before they need the last book .
@Al3xh413 Well what you said is also considered bad writing. Don't batman a character for 6 seasons just to Loki it in the seventh season.
i just made the same comment with different words. couldn't agree more.
The early seasons of GOT are passionate, witty and chaotic like Littlefinger, while the latter ones are cold, stoic and castrated like Varys
Manu fm "castrated" :D
So succinct and true
Makes sense considering the first two books are great, the third is merely good and the fourth and fifth suck. What should you expect?
@@shawnn7502 People don't grow on trees. If you kill them off, they won't be taking part in more events, now will they?
@@shawnn7502 ASOS is merely good? AFFC and ADWD suck? Dude go read Harry Potter or some Marvel shitty comic, ASOIAF's not your type.
Akram Lakamora while i don’t agree with the original comment... ADWD was very bland in comparison to the other books 7/10 while the others were 9/10 or 10/10
Lol I like how you said Littlefinger didn’t earn our respect! He did earn mine certainly for being one of the most smart and intelligent characters of the series. If the writers knew a thing such as character consistency he would be just fine by now.
There are average players in the game of thrones such as: Cersei, stannis, or daenerys who thinks they're smarter than everyone else but not actually as smart or wise as they think they are.
Then there are players who think of them selfs as masters of the game and think that they can control all of the other players but actually cant. like Tywin, olinna, or tyrion.
And then, then there are the true masters of the game who controls the game and shift its course, manipulate the other players themselfes without them even knowing. those being petyr bailish and varys the spider
Dany doesn't think she's smart or wisen though she's still smarter than Cersei or Stannis anyway. Remember Astapor where she literally misleads the masters by pretending she's just a naïve young girl who knows nothing. But I agree that she made mistakes that other players like Tyrion, Tywin, Littlefinger or Varys would never have done, however we must remember that she is only 16 years old (a little more in the series).
lol jon is not even on the game
Right now ScreenPrism is my favourite CZcams channel, so every time you talk about my favourite fantasy saga it's just perfect
I think it's better to separate the show from the books cause the show kinda fucked up the greatness of both characters
Lost Goth It's not only those characters they fucked up
Some people just love to complain.
@@Seraphim-Hamilton well in the case of these 2 characters its true
it's a true, it's damn true
it’s probably harder to translate onto screenplay
I loved littlefinger my favourite character on the show. In the real world he wins 9 times outta 10.
Mr. Mojo Risin how the hell did Sansa of all people get the better of little finger I will never know. She is thick as two planks of wood. Little finger is too smart to get out played by sansa
The reason why Sansa is the one who outplays LF is simple: he is the one who taught her how (plus she was his weakness).
Littlefinger is still alive...
It's also worth mentioning that although Littlefinger was aware that Arya was following him, whenever Littlefinger was actually alone you could hear the cawing of ravens so maybe Bran was worging into ravens to watch him.
LVO one could only hope for that theory, as it does fix what shitty scene that trial was, and it gives purpose to being in the house of black and white, but I hold little hope that D&D won't just make this the simplest show just to be rid of it. I guess theres always the books and fanfictions to hold out hope for :P
Here's what George said though and what I started to question in the show by season 6: Why would people continue to trust a schemer that plays every side of the fence so openly? George said that Littlefinger in the books is a friend to everyone offering his services but the show gimmick is that everyone knows he is sneaky and untrustworthy which would not last serving nobility and kings as they would not keep him around.
Exactly
Stop trying to justify Littlefinger's destruction as a ideological lesson. He was killed off in order to move the plot along, now that input from the genius George RR Martin was no longer available, and plot dynamics fell to unoriginal thought processes of its current studio directors.
@Gaius Wyrden Littlefinger was always meant to die, however, all the smart people realize how poorly his death was written. This is just the unavoidable truth.
Actually littlefinger died because the show didn’t know how to use him in another 6 episodes, there are too many characters that they have to care about, they will focus on the “main” ones, Lannisters , Dany, Starks and so...
which is such a waste of character, littlefinger and Varys should end on top, or at least one of them, and seeing the way they put Varys aside season 7, I don’t believe they will make a good acceptable end for him.
That’s why I can’t wait for the book
im with ya there brother
The two greatest game players of Westeros!
But one of thems dead so not good enough
Tywin Lannister is the greatest, especially of the books.
@@chozenheart You really can't win over some Stone Age magic.
lmao varys is safe as dany's advisor
"like Dany, Varys believes in good" lol 😂
U mean he's burned
Ironic
Oof
Oof
Actually in the books Varys is a much darker character. He uses the same tactics as littlefinger (creating chaos, pitting players against each other, using brutality to silence those who will undermine his plans), only he claims he does so in order to fulfill a higher goal...
That epilogue in ADWD where he uses his little birds to kill Kevan and Pycelle was dark
Littlefingers last words encapsulate his philosophy; "I"
YES! YES! YES! I waited so much for this video! Thank you! I missed you Game of Thrones content!😁😁😁😁😁😁😁
You two seem to have a passion for the series.
No. Littlefinger failed because he acted *uncharacteristically* blind at the end. He was demonized and promptly punished in some of the most disappointing writing of the show. Many of these latter events have upset GoT fans like myself because they betray the core themes of the series, which until now have included that success is determined by knowledge and cunning, *not* a kind heart. That's why Ned died. The world is cruel and unfair, and GoT became famous largely because it presented the world truthfully--not Hollywood's dumbed-down easy answers as presented here.
Thanks for the recommendations anyway.
coffeefrog. I don't think the writing was that bad; it was too subtle in that it was easy to miss what was going on underneath. LF is a realist/pragmatist and does not consider anyone is able to out-think or out-act him, except maybe Varys. So when these two magical kids show up at the moment he almost has Sansa ousting Jon, he treats them as mere nuisances. Bran's 'chaos' quote spooked him. Later that episode he watched the amazing teen girl tie with the Hound's conqueror, but with LF's *own* dagger which he'd assumed was *safely* in Bran's hands! He should have scrammed back to the Vale. Probably he relied on gullible Sansa having true power in WF and being able to control those brats. He could not have anticipated that Arya was a Faceless Man who by then had mastered devising complex ruses to outwit formidable opponents. All her so-called out-of-character behavior was part of that ruse. Since LF ignored the signs and stayed, his fate was sealed. He died because he ignored magic. And the reality of magic IS a theme of the show.
L L there was nothing subtle about the writing, and you pulled alot of that from your bum
LL Why are people defending the show when the writing is clearly bad? Littlefinger knew Arya was a faceless assassin, he saw her fighting Brienne and saw Bran's looking intro his past. How does the writing pay respect to the character's personality when all the obvious warning signs are there and they are visible even for average IQ viewers like us, but the most intelligent character is oblivious to them?! Makes not sense!! He's got cocky?! He's always been cocky but wise enough to back down when the situation demands it. His whole character has been about humbly accepting others humiliating him, while, in the shadows plotting to take them down, without them ever knowing it was him taking revenge. He himself said he assumes the worst every time. He didn't take the Stark siblings seriously because he does not believe in magic? He knows about dragons and he knows about white walkers. Nor did he ever say that magic is stupid or does not exist. By no means the LF we know would not pick up the signs and put 1+1 together. The writers dumbed him down to end his arc already and did it in a very dumb manner....and also fanservice. Also, the LF in the books is everyone's friend and people usually like him a lot and trust him due his politeness, sense of humor and charisma. No one ever suspects him. The LF in the show has always been dumbed down, but this season they murdered his character. LF should represent the game of thrones itself. The message of the show is linked to this character. Both him and the message died this season, and that's the sad truth. Game of thrones is now a marvel movie.
To edgelords, the world is cruel and unfair, and GoT was a breath of fresh air amid the insipid nonsense that presents some degree of optimism or kindness.
In reality, the world is extremely complex, and can't be reduced to "cruel and unfair". If the world is indeed representative of Game of Thrones, it would have self-destructed long before the present date. The very fact that there IS a world at all implies a variety of human traits and outcomes, and I argue that extensive examination of humanity reveals it's deep complexity, rather than the dominance of any particular trait.
So the world is cruel and unfair, SOMETIMES. Sometimes it's kind and fair, and sometimes it's something else entirely.
Brian Koontz I get what you're saying and sometimes bad guys get punished. That's not the problem we "edgelords" have with LF's death. The problem is that he acted waaaaaay out of character. That's the problem. It only happened for plot reasons not because that was the natural thing for the character to do. Imagine if Arya all of a sudden started being very lady-like and gossiping about boys and crushes at the end of the series just so she could marry say ....Gendry or whatever. It would be nonsensical, out of character, and you would get mad. That's what happend to us. We are mad because LF became a different character this season for no reason. I would not have a problem with his death if it happened in a different way. You would expect LF to die for having emotions for Sanda and her taking advantage of that, not because he became less intelligent,cunning and somehow his deductive skills dissapeared. Or at least give me a reason why he became less intelligent like him being blinded by his attraction/love to Sansa, blinded by his past (any reason that makes him a vurnelabile human being). Even hurting his head would be better than what we've got.
Littlefinger biggest weakness was desire for Sansa
It’s was SO obvious his love and lust for Cat and Sansa would be his downfall
Dan B I don't think that was it, to be honest. His greatest love was power - Cat and Sansa were simply beautiful, desirable, and powerful women. Having one of them by his side would make him even more powerful.
Menuchah Schuman I disagree
Littlefinger duelled Brandon stark when he was gonna marry Cat
He loved her and Sansa like he said
Littlefinger's biggest weakness was that he was too smart to be written by David Benioff so they had to kill him
Manu fm Littlefinger doesn’t even think white walkers were real
He loved them but he also used them to his own advantage.
Gregor and Sandor Clegane (The mountain and the hound) next?
Thomas Bolt lol they don’t have ideologies
I know this is SCREEN Prism, but in addition to your suggestions at the end, I highly recommend reading the original books as well as the Dunk & Egg novellas.
Littlefinger: *says the word chaos*
Bran: i'm gonna end this man's whole career
ScreenPrism , you are a blessing !
Reading the books is another good outlet. There are a lot of small things in the novels that opens up the world of Westeros even more!
thats what i have been doing
I think Varys has a great future serving his queen. Time to watch season 8.
thanks for helping us get through this long night!
The video helped me better understand the characters. Littlefinger reminds me of Gaston Means (there is a 1 hour long presentation on him here at CZcams). Gaston Means was featured in Boardwalk Empire.
Thanks so much Screenprsim you're such a great channel
Yessss! Thank you for shedding light on 2 of GOT most interesting characters. I've always loved Varys the most because unlike other GOT heroes, he's pragmatic despite doing it all for the people.
Dropped everything as soon as I saw the notification ♡
Ashfalor might have been my dog, might have been the frozen head of walt Disney... you'll never know.
+Voodoo Doll I was holding lysa arryn....shit :(
Seeing the worst in everyone stops working when you gave the reigns of the show to people who care more about pleasing fans then making sense. Littlefinger remains my favorite character.
Yesterday you tell me you’re working on more Westworld, then I wake up today to find some brilliant GoT content!?! You guys are spoiling us!
May I say, as a former editor, nicely done! When someone can match pictures to corresponding images like this I feel like a kid on a roller-coaster. Although, as far as I’m concerned, the jury’s still out on Varys. He still may be up to something. In fact, I kind of hope he is. That’s why he’s so intriguing to me.
Thanks for the recommendations. I’ll try to find Hollow Crown. Or maybe House of Cards.
Seriously, you guys are the culmination of every critisism, philosophical opinion, and/or author-viewer relation analeysis, on this modern entretemiant-art era.
Thank You Screenprism! I have been WAITING for this for like MONTHS!!!! Your videos literally make my day:)
Wow! just wow, you guys always bring it, and I swear, it just gets better and better every time. you brought two of my favorite characters and analyze then & their ideologies, it was just a phenomenal breakdown. and I love it. But love them or hate them their intelligence and cunningness to do what they feel of what is necessary, it’s truly something to admire, also really love you guys Game of Thrones content, it’s so good that you guys keep on doing an amazing job, as always. And thank you for showing me love every time you guys read my comment I really appreciate.💜☺️💯 ps. Love your recommendations, I’ll have to check of them out.
Varys was the unsung hero of GoT.
“The King won't give you any honors, the histories won't mention you, but we will not forget”
@@yt-shhave you forgot, Lord Varys?
@Screenprism - you guys are absolute geniuses. And that montage with the voice over of Littlefinger is freaking AMAZING 👌👌👌
I've watched a couple of your videos now and must admit something: I love the way you look deeper into and address different ideas/stories/ shows... I'm a fan :)
Poor Varys, he was a true neutral.
*Neuter
@@dominut_is_art604I make eununch jokes
These videos are wonderful, very informative and rewatchable
I have been waiting for something like this for a long time. And it turned out to be as awesome as other screen prism videos.
Not unexpected!!
As soon as Brandon said the line “chaos is a ladder” little finger would have instantly snuck out of winterfell.
Yay finally! I've been waiting for this video for so long
Only reason Littlefinger lost was because there was someone on the other side unhumanely knowledgeable. Otherwise, he would still be playing the game and maybe even succeding in breaking Arya and Sansa apart.
He was a cunning selfserving jerk indeed.
i was really missing Game of thrones. a nice relief after seeing this video of little finger and varys
How did Season 7 become so Dumb.
Littlefinger just wandered around Winterfell brain dead all season until he died
I'm a big fan of both characters, but Little Finger has taught me more about cunning than everyone. We all have a little Little Finger in us, but most people refuse to admit it. No one is purely evil or good, unless we live in a fantasy world.
Great script and awesome editing, as always.
You ladies are amazing, keep up the great work.
I Love your vids alot, thank you as always for the time and effort that goes into these indepth videos!
This comment says it all!!!
But they completely butchered both Littlefingers and Varys character in the last season. The end of Littlefinger does not even make sense. Being who he is, he should never even have been in that situation and even so, should have been easily able to get out of it.
I don’t think Varys cares about the peace in the realm. If he did:
1) He wouldn’t convince Aerys to attend the Tourney of Harrenhal which was arranged by Rhaegar to plot with all the Great Houses to dethrone his father.
2) He wouldn’t have arranged with his Pentos buddy Mopatis to marry Daenerys to a Dothraki Khalasar which would have raped, pillaged, and plundered their way across Westeros, destroying the long peace established by Robert.
3) He wouldn’t have had Kevan Lannister murdered for what he quoted “Undoing the Queen’s good work” in tearing apart the realm. Kevan was well on his way as Regent to offering some stability. He was paying back the Iron Bank, he kept Cersei in the hands of the Faith, thereby isolating her, he was welcoming all great houses back into the fold, and was staring to mold Tommen into a good king. Sounds like bettering the realm to me, so why kill him?
The answer: Because he wants Aegon on the throne, the one who was supposedly murdered by the Mountain, but may indeed be a Blackfyre or the “Murmmer’s dragon,” as Daenerys was told to beware. How else could he have arranged the support of the Golden Company which was specifically created to unseat the Targaryens in favor of the Blackfyres.
Please see Alt Shift X’s video “Spider: what’s Varys Up To?” for a more in depth analysis for the Spider’s motives.
i agree
That's true in the books, but not in the show
There is still a question what Varys wanted in the books For some reasons he convince Aerys to attend the Tourney of Harrenhal WHY? he knew that others houses wanted Aerys Out? but he told Aerys NOT to OPEN GATES for Lannisters's Party? WHY?
I believe Aegon (the Murmmer's dragon) might be the son or grandnephew of Aegon the unlikely two sisters they were marry off to some men but happen to their off springs?.
Just found this channel, and im loving the perspective and insight you bring... Subbed up
Just came across your videos the past few days and they are amazing! Well done! Love them!
I think there was a misinterpretation on Littlefinger, he did not go down because he cheated on everyone, making him transparent, but because he opened up, teaching Sansa everything he knew and his inner workings, he did it not because of his nature as a cunniving bastard, but out of love. His love was that of an abuser who thought that he could keep Sansa as an object of affection and using her as a piece of chess, while ignoring that she had the capacity to turn against him. At leas thats my interpretation. His schemes work only if he moves around and keeps a cool head, because he is the definition of a sociopath.
Kalandria I agreed with everything you said,but he is not a sociopath.
Well, and he tried to undermine her real love- which her love for her family. Even the little sister that she never got along with.
I definitely agree that he did open up, just not love in itself. He started off distant, but there was always an ego to his game. The more ego he displayed in wanting his desires openly, the more he stepped out of the shadows and become emotionally attached to the game he previously was more hands off. It plays a part due to the very reason he became a manipulator in the first place, wounded ego. And Pride will inevitably will lead to a fall.
Varys remained in the game due to having no noble family to take pride in or any known happiness in childhood. He takes care of the cause of his misery immediately in order to focus on his goals for manipulation rather than have it spitefully control him in make those that made him suffer while taking increasing joy in it and direct involvement in the game to the point he becomes another piece than a game-master. He maintains a neutral and sometimes genial approach of interactions at times, but its never in a way that its putting himself in a position of absolute authority to make up for his lost pride, but rather its to make the most logical choices for the leadership without bias to make the country thrive in a way that benefits the kingdoms without personal preference. There are slip-ups now and again, but significantly, less so, due to circumstances playing against him rather than his own personal flaws.
If he does act on more emotion in the final season, then he's falling in the same trap, but hopefully, he doesn't do something that is completely out of character, like turning out to be not a eunuch and a murderous rapist with ambition would definitely bring his downfall in likability and his stay on the show.
I agree. What I don't understand is why so many fans of LF seem to think he should be invincible while other characters around him fall. At some point he was going to have his Achilles Heel revealed, just like many other major characaters. That was Sansa.
@@animefan77 "like turning out to not be a eunuch" No bc Ros touched him down there and realized Varys is a eunuch.
I just love your videos and the dual presentation is awesome
Thanks for the suggestions guys! That was really thoughtful of you! :)
I recently discovered your channel and I absolutely love it! Such great insightful video-essays with detailed analysis and well-explained points. Thank you for making me think :D
THANK YOU! I love your vides, but probably your GOT most of all.
On Varys's demise, I think it will come from a mirrored version of LittleFingers demise. A lack of willingness to take personal risks for what they want, LF wanted "everything" for himself and Varys wants the greatest good for "the realm". The problem is both these philosophies are inflexible and unpredictable at the same time. No one know what they are thinking because they won't contridict you if it's a risk. Varys plays it all close to the chest, he placates with empty words rather then advocate his believes. When Aryes was king, he never spoke against him, same with Robert. Now Dany calls him out on it and he promises to tell her if he thinks she is going mad... then he doesn't. (Interestingly, the one's he does openly contradict and discuss things with is LF and Tyrion) Some might say that season 7 is badly written, so this doesn't count, but I disagree. To me this seems exactly what my favorite Spider would do.
Contrasting this is Jon. He stands up to Daenerys and it works. Jon took a risk coming to Dragonstone and then she took a risk letting him leave. Jon didn't originally care about Kingslanding and Dany dismissed the idea of White Walkers. But they then listened, argued, adapted and learned.
And they had to take risks to learn that.
Vary's will think there are greener fields elsewhere. But eventually... he is going to try and jump ship again and find out it's a much longer swim to the next boat. And maybe he should have stuck with boat he had.
"Littlefinger kind of forgot to have good writing." -Benioff
This is a wonderfully insightful video. The best of many GOT videos. Thank you.
Two of my favourite characters, from one of my favourite channels!
I adore these got videos! Keep en coming!
There is a difference between Varys and Littlefinger: the former has experienced material hardships, and the later had some claim and people working under him.
You guys are amazing!
Small correction: Little Finger doesn't "lack noble heritage". Even though small nobility, House Baelish are still nobles from the Vale, hailing from one of the small "finger" peninsulas there, hence his nickname.
This is such a great video! I love the perspective of this channel
Thanks ladies!
Came back to this because of Varys
Chaos is a shuffled, fresh deck of cards. All who left their minds in their positions with the old deck are doomed to loose.
omg I have been waiting for this for a while!!!!!!!
In my mind, Littlefinger's speech about power very clearly identified him with the Nietzchean concept of "the will to power." There is no truth but power and the struggle betweem those with the will to sieze it. In the end, the culmination of his life proved that a life built on lies and greed serving no one but yourself will ultimately lead to deceiving yourself to your own destruction.
In the final counting, I think Daenerys's murder of "the Spider" was the symbolic signal that he was wrong to put his faith in her, because when push came to shove, Dany's hero of the people persona was little more than a mask for her own pursuit of power. "If not love, then fear" is all anyone needs to know about Dany's moral compass. She pursues the good of the people, not for its own sake like Varys, but as a means to attain greater power, and as soon as those people are no longer useful, she abandons them to further her quest, and when she can't rule through the people's love, she'll chose to rule through violence and fear. In the end, whether she appeals to love or fear, the common denominator was her pursuit of greater power. Varys died because he misidentified a kindred spirit, and he did so because he had never before experiejced a would be ruler who would use the idea of serving the people in order to serve nobody but herself.
Team Little Finger...by far the most clever character in GOT
Rawle Springer and he is dead
Rawle Springer at east in the books
You ladies are doing an amazing job, well done!
I actually love both characters! Great dialogs!
"trial by combat" was all little finger had to say, he watched Tyrion make it out of that same shit by doing that, but instead he begs like a moron in a scene that made no sense...
the problem is that show makers D&D have become obsessed with their actors after running out of source material, the characters aren't the focus, its "what does this particular actor do well?" just listen tom their commentary, they admit they believe facial expressions can carry a scene without dialog and will repeat over and over "look at their face, wow, look at their face"
What makes you think he would have won against arya.
Also sansa witnessed him kill lysa arryn so his demand for trail by combat would not be justified and entertained either.
I was rooting for varys since the start.
Great list at the end. Thank you for the recommendations.
Amazing video as always!! I would also recommend "The Tudors" because it is a very well written historical drama and shows nicely how politics took place during the era of Henry the VIII in England after the war of the roses.