As a second year Mechanical student, this video is really helpful by giving insights to actuall projects of the industry and how one can design things. Great video
Damn, I'm a 3rd year comps student from mumbai but i just watch whatever i like😂, check out inheritance machining and This old tony theyre hours of entertainment
Very cool. Now give me a million per month. I used to work at Apple and regularly went to Shenzen to inspect production. The factory is literally thousands of CNC's running 24/7. If one breaks down they shut it off and turn on a new one. No time for troubleshooting, that can happen later. You would never believe the price of the iPhone frame. Basically when order quantity gets high enough the part cost approaches the cost of the raw material per pound.
Thank you for your response. Yes, we are well-aware of economies of scale. In this case, relatively few custom parts means a higher cost per piece and a longer development lead time to dial in all of the processes. Once that's sorted, yeah, you can pump them out all day.
For context, how close of an approach are we talking about? For 10 million iPhone frames, 2%, 10%, 50%? I have no reference frame as I don't work in this field.
@@italianstallion399 Normally single digit percentages. Sadly in the case of the iPhone it is way more complicated. By the books they are sold at a negative profit. The reason is there are massive government incentives. You couldn't buy the aluminum for the price the frames are sold. BTW you wouldn't believe how much aluminum is turned into chips making a phone. To avoid warpage from internal stresses inherit to a billet of aluminum the raw block is many times the size of the phone because only the center of the block is stable. That makes the cost calculation even crazier because over 90% of the aluminum cost is gone to chips. Of course chips are recycled but that value is not significant. All phone companies do this or they could not be competitive. It's like the made in USA sneaker example. If Nike's were made in the USA you couldn't afford them.
99.9 percent of America looks at that clip and says, 2 bucks. They think you’re insane when you say, “Oh you want one, that’s 1,000 dollars”. Most folks have no idea what goes into a design.
Great presentation! GD&T can be a real plus to manufacturing because of “bonus” tolerances the manufacturer can tease out of the dimensioning notes. But it takes several years of practical experience on the part of the designer, and then the guys making the part to really understand the system. Your example of so many critical dimensions on such a small part are almost a guarantee the designer didn’t really understand the GD&T system. Been there & done that myself. If in doubt throw some more of those little rectangular boxes full of mysterious symbols and verbiage on the drawing. Your boss, who hasn’t prepared a design drawing in 15 or 20 years, will be impressed. The manufacturing engineer who is making the CAM instructions and tooling will also be impressed. Impressed that the designer doesn’t understand GD&T!
Machine shop owner here (great video) so much programming and expertise goes into parts like these. Making one is similar to making ten. Making a thousand parts is where we can amortize the design and shop time. I'll break it out for any customer at any time.
Yeah, was going to say, when OP says 99.9 percent of people would say something like two bucks he's right but it's because most people's sense of cost is trained on mass-produced goods, not small runs or prototypes.
Indeed, I'm not even convinced they got the profile reference right even AFTER these folks stepped in to help. The profile should reference to the centroid of a hypothetical perfect diameter sliding pin, because THAT is the path that matters in terms of kinematics of the mechanism. That a machine shop might not know this is forgivable. But for the design engineer to not know that is ridiculous.
@@mitchellcouchman1444 I was wondering that same thing. Is this a totally brand new widget? Is there something similar that was doing this job last week? I think the head 'old guy' is gonna be shaking his head when he understands the final application.
I’m in school for mechanical engineering but I also work at the universities machine shop, and this case study is my really helpful. Thank you for putting this out there.
Thank you. We have plans for making this a series, and showcasing many scenarios like this. Let me know if there's something specific you'd like to see.
Looks like a 3-axis part. Aside from shop floor scheduling and machine availability I'm not sure why it couldn't have been run on a 3-axis with more room for more fixturing.
I love doing high tolerance little parts like that... but I have my optical CMM and that makes validating parts so much easier. Cool video! I'm just a 1 man self taught shop so I love seeing how other larger shops do their business.
There are many ways of course to measure parts, and luckily high-quality scanners or tabletop CMMs are more affordable and accessible than ever before for even modest shops.
@starrapid right! My OGP Smartscope 302 is the most expensive machine in my shop, but it's still amazingly worth it on how much time it saves on inspections
Great video, loved the breakdown between problem and sloution. Great advice too. NGL, was able to predict some of the solutions and really felt like a real ME lol.
Many thanks. It's not always easy to communicate subtle design ideas. People who aren't in the business of making stuff don't understand how tricky it can be.
Whether they will notice or not isn't important. 0.002" out is 0.05mm which is a huge tolerance issue with a component so small. You aren't striving to be a good machinist if that's how you think of machining components out of spec as being OK. If I got a part 0.05mm out of spec (components I have made require +-0.01mm) I'd get a refund immediately because that means the machinist can't even be added to run the CNC properly.
@@FrozenByFire3 notice I said most. Obviously, medical parts this tiny are different. Engineers have a habit of applying the tightest tolerance over the entire part when only one feature is important. Or they just want to "be sure" because they don’t trust their design. This macho bullshit that Titans of CNC are spouting about how they scrap a part if it’s 0.0001" out is not productive. Fortunately I can talk to the engineers I work with and negotiate a reasonable give and take. I can’t be taking a week chasing microns. Doesn’t mean I’m not able, just means I’m practical.
@@FrozenByFire3 thats not what he's saying... prints often have silly tolerances on non-critical surfaces... you KNOW this... thats the whole reason for "design intent" and designer /manufacturer communication... A part should be toleranced such that it performs its function correctly (incl. wear allowances etc) but NO MORE than that as all that does is increase production cost and therefore end-product cost... Design and manufacture are 2 separate disciplines, each have their own area of expertise so it makes sense to get the two together to discuss a project and perhaps try other design iterations more easily (cheaply) manufactured...
@@peterfitzpatrick7032 that's very true, but if the drawing says a specific tolerance, it's your job as a machinist to reach it. If you think it's too much and will boost cost, contact the designer/engineer and work with him to make it reasonably toleranced for areas that don't matter. Don't just machine it off spec and hope the client doesn't notice. That's some shitty Chinese CNC shop logic
@@FrozenByFire3Who said anything about not keeping to the specified tolerances ...? The point of my comment .. and actually the raison d'etre for this whole video.... seems to have gone right over your head... NO ONE has said anything about making parts out of spec & trying to pass them off on the customer, that was your interpretation... and it was TOTALLY wrong... 🙄😒
Most of America only deals with Mass Manufactured goods. The Engineering, calculation, and just extraordinary amount of work, technology, and effort behind economies of scale is something that is sadly very hidden from the public. Not intentionally, of course, most people just don't wake up on any given day and think to themselves "Today I would like to tour a factory!". I've run small lots on my Garage CNC when I was thinking of trying to make a Machine shop of my own. My idea never panned out for a few different reasons, but the learning was intense. I made parts that were similar in broad concept. That is, they looked nothing like that, but when you looked at them, they appeared as though they could have been stamped little brackets. I made I think a couple dozen, Machined from Stainless. Nobody who looked at the lot of them would have guessed that they were looking at $2000 worth of parts.
Yes, definitely one of our ambitions when launching this channel is to show levels of detail that are normally hidden, and to do so in a way that we hope is accessible to a lay audience
Unfortunately, they don't even teach that at university just finished with a first class degree in mechanical engineering, I still dont know how to calculate tolerances I do however know how to do business since half the course was spent on that lmao
unfortunately, many design engineers don't have adequate gd&t background and you learn it on your job, lucky if they hire lecturers to explain. The most college curriculums don't include anything about gd&t, and it gets worse as the college is ranked higher.
That’s precisely why we offer free Design For Manufacture review when product designers work with us to manufacture their parts. We have several videos in this channel dedicated to GD&T, and that’s one of the reasons why we created this channel. To educate and entertain product designers, engineers and developers and how to ensure design for manufacturability.
I agree, in general. The hardest young engineers to work with come from the Ivies because they are SURE they already know everything and need to tell everyone else how t do their jobs. In time they experience enough embarassing episodes of failure that they start to listen. The young engineers from state schools tend to not have such silly attitudes and are generally more productive in their early careers.
starting my second year of Mechanical Engineering upcoming academic year after having done 2,5 years of Industrial Design Engineering, this is super interesting to me. it shows very well what the field of work looks like
Thanks for this great video, absolutely insightful, kindly upload a series of such videos of case studies depicting the real life solutions to problems
really good case study. did you consider or suggest any alternative manufacturing methods such as laser cutting? (perhaps with some part redesign?) also, curious how you inspected the parts after. was it CMM and/or go/no go gauges? thanks again for all the effort put into this video
Thanks for your inquiry. Honestly we're not set-up to do laser cutting ourselves but we know people who do it. As for measurement, we used a combination of both CMM and Zeiss 3D optical scanning.
Feel like this would’ve been easier to run on an edm and measure against a 20:1 or digital measuring machine. But obviously you do what you can with what you have.
If the client did share the CAD files I'd get why they didn't care to correctly display the dimensions of the grooves. Regarding the heat treatment, normalization would have helped to prevent warping if that was a concern.
Thank you. That's why we like to call ourselves manufacturing partner. We figure the project out with the client, so we arrive at the perfect solution. And this starts from the DFM review, material selection, production and delivery.
I can tell you that after the entire process was completed, we had to straighten some of these things. We didn’t put it in the video because it would’ve confused people. It was not a lot of deformation, but it was worth the effort to put them straight.
@@gordonstyles5676 You could always remove most material while annealed and then heat treat it before making the finishing passes. This should limit warping. But maybe it was not so critical that it was worth spending the extra steps.
I don't know if any school teaches the German Style, but in its time the Glorious CETMA (Mexican-German CETyS) taught dimensioning so that there were no errors as basic as those. The fact that they still happen in many places tells me that that The German system of designing and delimiting died with that school, at least in Mexico.
This is a good video to educate customers who don't quite understand GD&T. But I still do not see why this had to be done on a 5 axis. Yeah, that little move to dump chips between passes was cool, but even if that was absolutely necessary that's still only requires 4 axes...
Good point. It certainly doesn't need to be on a 5-axis machine. In our experience, 5-axis machines tend to be overbuilt and therefore more stable for some jobs, but that really depends on what you've got on the shop floor.
gotta justify that expensive degree somehow... "biomedical engineer" doesnt mean "good at technical drawings" or "basic design philosophy". it means "high salary".
Thanks for the response. There seems to be the misunderstanding that tight tolerances always equal higher quality or better performance. We're trying to find a balance between extreme engineering perfection and practicality.
I have a question, if i invest 2k to buy a small cnc machine to practice my skills at home, will the experience enable me to qualify operating a bigger one in a factory for example?
First machine parts without heat treating and leave enough stock material on features with critical dimensions. And then after heat treating do finishing machining with air cooling and without water. Then I would go to measure that part on cmm to check all my tolerance and correct me machining strategies according to measurement protocol. That's what I would do.
Thank you for your comment. We think there is no practical way (again, within reasonable time and cost restraints), to maintain 7 CTQs both before and after heat treatment, as it's impossible to anticipate how much the material will warp after heat treatment.
As a design engineer, I see this part as an example of overengineering. Its complexity makes production challenging and its function unclear. I prioritize designing products with simpler, more efficient components. In this case, I wonder if a redesign with simpler parts could achieve the same functionality.
This was a case study?! This is daily life for any job shop machinist lol. We’d quote this for like $200 a part per the drawing you showed. It’s always funny seeing big shops massively overthink something so simple
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Many jobs may seem simple of course only after figuring out all the details, but getting there takes a while. For example, identifying the right method for measuring the radii of the indentations was not self-evident. And no workshop, anywhere or of any size, is going to produce a small part with seven CTQs without facing a very high scrap rate.
@@starrapid why would you have a high scrap rate? We run common modern cnc machines and if a tolerance is varying by more than a thou over the entire 2d profile like you have for those grooves something is very wrong. We obviously have to comp it in, but the entire 2d profile shouldn’t have any form variance outside of that unless your machines are dying or something. Programmed and ran a part with 12 CTQs yesterday, 15/15 parts were good first time. Multiple holes +- 0.0003” with locations under 0.00015” on a 5 year old dnm. Might be worth a ball-bar test if it takes this long and so much scrap. Are your engineers modeling to nominal dimensions or one end of tolerance? An issue I see a lot is not modeling to center of tolerance, but different ends of multiple tolerances, requiring a lot of time by the machinist to correct with comp and measuring. Model all to nominal, comp a couple in, and everything else should be within a tenth or two. Unless the programmer doesn’t grasp tool pressure and is loading the tool different on each cut and flexing it differently.
Printing these would bring up all kinds of different problems to be solved. For one, laser sintering would introduce all kinds of thermal stress, causing the part to warp and thus require further post-machining.
I wonder when I see parts like these, would it be possible to make the design of such parts easier to manufacture without loosing functionality. But probably %99 of the time you would end up with a similar design I guess. Generally they converge to such extent out of necessity.
We imagine it might be, but again we were not involved in the development of the entire product so we can't really say what would be the best way to achieve their design objective.
Some of the horrible GD&T I've seen makes you wonder if these people ever learnt to draw. Gear PCD with 0.02mm concentricity to a bore with a 0.2mm diameter tolerance, families of nearly identical parts that have lengths referenced to different surfaces (some parts are from the end, some parts a from a shoulder), mindless conversions from nominal fractional to metric with no thought to how the extra decimal place now bumps it into the next tolerance bracket.
In the future we hope to have more videos that highlight issues related to tolerances and dimensions, because it's a subject that comes up often and we really want to inform our clients so they get the most out of their valuable design time.
I'd suggest that the client redesigns the element. Those indexing ramps are a problem waiting to happen, ANY wear is going to make the tolerance well out of spec'n.
Of course, as with any professional discipline, the design engineer and the manufacturer learn from one another over time. They will take this lesson and their next design will no doubt improve.
So basically your biggest problem was to figure out the dimensions? I clicked this because i was wondering about chatter in the longer part thats sticking out or how you clamped it in a fixture. Your problems were disappointing and i think you missed out on talking about actual difficulties. Kind regards.
Yes, of course we have CAM. And no, figuring out the dimensions was not our biggest problem, we merely used this as an opportunity to discuss the different methodologies for measuring radii along a spline. But thanks for the response.
🕉 Satyameva Jayate: Truth and Honesty and Reality gets created when Good Thoughts, Good Deeds, Good Acts are allowed to achieve the small steps needed for the correct choices and correct decisions to be made. Satyameva Jayate
As a second year Mechanical student, this video is really helpful by giving insights to actuall projects of the industry and how one can design things. Great video
Damn, I'm a 3rd year comps student from mumbai but i just watch whatever i like😂, check out inheritance machining and This old tony theyre hours of entertainment
Thank you very much, we're glad you found it useful. We are currently producing the next one in this series. So, stay tuned.
Very cool. Now give me a million per month. I used to work at Apple and regularly went to Shenzen to inspect production. The factory is literally thousands of CNC's running 24/7. If one breaks down they shut it off and turn on a new one. No time for troubleshooting, that can happen later. You would never believe the price of the iPhone frame. Basically when order quantity gets high enough the part cost approaches the cost of the raw material per pound.
Thank you for your response. Yes, we are well-aware of economies of scale. In this case, relatively few custom parts means a higher cost per piece and a longer development lead time to dial in all of the processes. Once that's sorted, yeah, you can pump them out all day.
For context, how close of an approach are we talking about? For 10 million iPhone frames, 2%, 10%, 50%? I have no reference frame as I don't work in this field.
@@italianstallion399 Normally single digit percentages. Sadly in the case of the iPhone it is way more complicated. By the books they are sold at a negative profit. The reason is there are massive government incentives. You couldn't buy the aluminum for the price the frames are sold. BTW you wouldn't believe how much aluminum is turned into chips making a phone. To avoid warpage from internal stresses inherit to a billet of aluminum the raw block is many times the size of the phone because only the center of the block is stable. That makes the cost calculation even crazier because over 90% of the aluminum cost is gone to chips. Of course chips are recycled but that value is not significant. All phone companies do this or they could not be competitive. It's like the made in USA sneaker example. If Nike's were made in the USA you couldn't afford them.
@@RA-gk5zg That's really interesting on both the waste percentage and profit margins. I wonder if the titanium iPhones are similar.
99.9 percent of America looks at that clip and says, 2 bucks. They think you’re insane when you say, “Oh you want one, that’s 1,000 dollars”. Most folks have no idea what goes into a design.
Very true. That’s why we have a free DFM review with every project we get, so we can work with the designers to ensure smooth manufacturability.
Great presentation!
GD&T can be a real plus to manufacturing because of “bonus” tolerances the manufacturer can tease out of the dimensioning notes. But it takes several years of practical experience on the part of the designer, and then the guys making the part to really understand the system. Your example of so many critical dimensions on such a small part are almost a guarantee the designer didn’t really understand the GD&T system. Been there & done that myself. If in doubt throw some more of those little rectangular boxes full of mysterious symbols and verbiage on the drawing. Your boss, who hasn’t prepared a design drawing in 15 or 20 years, will be impressed. The manufacturing engineer who is making the CAM instructions and tooling will also be impressed. Impressed that the designer doesn’t understand GD&T!
99.9 percent of the entire world would react the exact same.
Machine shop owner here (great video) so much programming and expertise goes into parts like these. Making one is similar to making ten. Making a thousand parts is where we can amortize the design and shop time. I'll break it out for any customer at any time.
Yeah, was going to say, when OP says 99.9 percent of people would say something like two bucks he's right but it's because most people's sense of cost is trained on mass-produced goods, not small runs or prototypes.
Sounds like the engineer needs to learn how to use GD&T correctly.
Proper GD&T knowledge is a necessity!
@@starrapid sounds like it would have saved you some trouble. lol
Indeed, I'm not even convinced they got the profile reference right even AFTER these folks stepped in to help. The profile should reference to the centroid of a hypothetical perfect diameter sliding pin, because THAT is the path that matters in terms of kinematics of the mechanism. That a machine shop might not know this is forgivable. But for the design engineer to not know that is ridiculous.
I'm extremely curious the application and why on earth it needed to be that accurate especially considering the cost of that accuracy
@@mitchellcouchman1444 I was wondering that same thing. Is this a totally brand new widget? Is there something similar that was doing this job last week? I think the head 'old guy' is gonna be shaking his head when he understands the final application.
I’m in school for mechanical engineering but I also work at the universities machine shop, and this case study is my really helpful. Thank you for putting this out there.
Thank you very much, we're glad you found it useful. We are currently producing the next one in this series. So, stay tuned.,
Interesting video showing a real life scenario, thanks
Thank you. We have plans for making this a series, and showcasing many scenarios like this. Let me know if there's something specific you'd like to see.
Looks like a 3-axis part. Aside from shop floor scheduling and machine availability I'm not sure why it couldn't have been run on a 3-axis with more room for more fixturing.
Yes, absolutely these can be made on a 3-axis mill. It was just a matter of scheduling, as you say.
I love doing high tolerance little parts like that... but I have my optical CMM and that makes validating parts so much easier. Cool video! I'm just a 1 man self taught shop so I love seeing how other larger shops do their business.
There are many ways of course to measure parts, and luckily high-quality scanners or tabletop CMMs are more affordable and accessible than ever before for even modest shops.
@starrapid right! My OGP Smartscope 302 is the most expensive machine in my shop, but it's still amazingly worth it on how much time it saves on inspections
Great video, loved the breakdown between problem and sloution. Great advice too. NGL, was able to predict some of the solutions and really felt like a real ME lol.
Many thanks. It's not always easy to communicate subtle design ideas. People who aren't in the business of making stuff don't understand how tricky it can be.
In my experience as a machinist, most parts are ridiculously over toleranced and most end users will never notice a part is 0.002" out
Whether they will notice or not isn't important. 0.002" out is 0.05mm which is a huge tolerance issue with a component so small. You aren't striving to be a good machinist if that's how you think of machining components out of spec as being OK. If I got a part 0.05mm out of spec (components I have made require +-0.01mm) I'd get a refund immediately because that means the machinist can't even be added to run the CNC properly.
@@FrozenByFire3 notice I said most. Obviously, medical parts this tiny are different. Engineers have a habit of applying the tightest tolerance over the entire part when only one feature is important. Or they just want to "be sure" because they don’t trust their design. This macho bullshit that Titans of CNC are spouting about how they scrap a part if it’s 0.0001" out is not productive. Fortunately I can talk to the engineers I work with and negotiate a reasonable give and take. I can’t be taking a week chasing microns. Doesn’t mean I’m not able, just means I’m practical.
@@FrozenByFire3 thats not what he's saying... prints often have silly tolerances on non-critical surfaces... you KNOW this... thats the whole reason for "design intent" and designer /manufacturer communication...
A part should be toleranced such that it performs its function correctly (incl. wear allowances etc) but NO MORE than that as all that does is increase production cost and therefore end-product cost...
Design and manufacture are 2 separate disciplines, each have their own area of expertise so it makes sense to get the two together to discuss a project and perhaps try other design iterations more easily (cheaply) manufactured...
@@peterfitzpatrick7032 that's very true, but if the drawing says a specific tolerance, it's your job as a machinist to reach it. If you think it's too much and will boost cost, contact the designer/engineer and work with him to make it reasonably toleranced for areas that don't matter. Don't just machine it off spec and hope the client doesn't notice. That's some shitty Chinese CNC shop logic
@@FrozenByFire3Who said anything about not keeping to the specified tolerances ...?
The point of my comment .. and actually the raison d'etre for this whole video.... seems to have gone right over your head...
NO ONE has said anything about making parts out of spec & trying to pass them off on the customer, that was your interpretation... and it was TOTALLY wrong... 🙄😒
Most of America only deals with Mass Manufactured goods. The Engineering, calculation, and just extraordinary amount of work, technology, and effort behind economies of scale is something that is sadly very hidden from the public. Not intentionally, of course, most people just don't wake up on any given day and think to themselves "Today I would like to tour a factory!".
I've run small lots on my Garage CNC when I was thinking of trying to make a Machine shop of my own. My idea never panned out for a few different reasons, but the learning was intense. I made parts that were similar in broad concept. That is, they looked nothing like that, but when you looked at them, they appeared as though they could have been stamped little brackets. I made I think a couple dozen, Machined from Stainless. Nobody who looked at the lot of them would have guessed that they were looking at $2000 worth of parts.
Yes, definitely one of our ambitions when launching this channel is to show levels of detail that are normally hidden, and to do so in a way that we hope is accessible to a lay audience
Unfortunately, they don't even teach that at university
just finished with a first class degree in mechanical engineering, I still dont know how to calculate tolerances
I do however know how to do business since half the course was spent on that lmao
Not really a simple looking part IMO, I'm going to guess this is for medical industry ?
Perfect. Yes it is.
I fear you are way ahead of the majority of engineers
unfortunately, many design engineers don't have adequate gd&t background and you learn it on your job, lucky if they hire lecturers to explain. The most college curriculums don't include anything about gd&t, and it gets worse as the college is ranked higher.
That’s precisely why we offer free Design For Manufacture review when product designers work with us to manufacture their parts. We have several videos in this channel dedicated to GD&T, and that’s one of the reasons why we created this channel. To educate and entertain product designers, engineers and developers and how to ensure design for manufacturability.
I agree, in general. The hardest young engineers to work with come from the Ivies because they are SURE they already know everything and need to tell everyone else how t do their jobs. In time they experience enough embarassing episodes of failure that they start to listen. The young engineers from state schools tend to not have such silly attitudes and are generally more productive in their early careers.
This is true. I went to one of the best universities in the world and GDT was optional.
Awesome ❤
starting my second year of Mechanical Engineering upcoming academic year after having done 2,5 years of Industrial Design Engineering, this is super interesting to me. it shows very well what the field of work looks like
Thank you. We are glad you like the video. We are producing a new episode in this series on plastic injection molding. Stay tuned.
That tool change reveal was so nice
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it. We are currently producing a new case study video for an injection molding project. Stay tuned :)
5:54 why only three? It looks like you could do four. Where's the circle that's inhibiting your corners? Is it from the motor axes?
Great work continue this case study series.
Thank you. We already started to produce the next one, an interesting injection molding case study. So stay tuned :)
Thanks for this great video, absolutely insightful, kindly upload a series of such videos of case studies depicting the real life solutions to problems
Thank you. We are already making the next one in this series. And many more planned. Consider subscribing and stay tuned :)
Thanks, already subscribed!
So amazing this lecture sir
Thank you. We've planned more videos in this series. So please subscribe and stay tuned :)
really good case study. did you consider or suggest any alternative manufacturing methods such as laser cutting? (perhaps with some part redesign?) also, curious how you inspected the parts after. was it CMM and/or go/no go gauges? thanks again for all the effort put into this video
Thanks for your inquiry. Honestly we're not set-up to do laser cutting ourselves but we know people who do it. As for measurement, we used a combination of both CMM and Zeiss 3D optical scanning.
Feel like this would’ve been easier to run on an edm and measure against a 20:1 or digital measuring machine.
But obviously you do what you can with what you have.
If the client did share the CAD files I'd get why they didn't care to correctly display the dimensions of the grooves.
Regarding the heat treatment, normalization would have helped to prevent warping if that was a concern.
We made very easy in our company this one....on Brother Speedio 5X names...left /right arm......in vises! Very simple ...!
very nice video, awesome how you find solutions for your customer !
Thank you. That's why we like to call ourselves manufacturing partner. We figure the project out with the client, so we arrive at the perfect solution. And this starts from the DFM review, material selection, production and delivery.
Amazing sir
Thank you. We’ve planned to do more videos in this series. Please subscribe and stay tuned :)
So great sir
Thank you. We’ve planned to do more videos in this series. Please subscribe and stay tuned :)
5heads would simulate the way heat stress would affect the structure and machine the parts to account for that
Considering it's a quite thin part, after heat treatment does it still warp in Op1? Does the heat treated material behave like s.duplex?
I can tell you that after the entire process was completed, we had to straighten some of these things. We didn’t put it in the video because it would’ve confused people. It was not a lot of deformation, but it was worth the effort to put them straight.
@@gordonstyles5676 You could always remove most material while annealed and then heat treat it before making the finishing passes. This should limit warping. But maybe it was not so critical that it was worth spending the extra steps.
I don't know if any school teaches the German Style, but in its time the Glorious CETMA (Mexican-German CETyS) taught dimensioning so that there were no errors as basic as those. The fact that they still happen in many places tells me that that The German system of designing and delimiting died with that school, at least in Mexico.
I love pretty stuff
This is a good video to educate customers who don't quite understand GD&T. But I still do not see why this had to be done on a 5 axis. Yeah, that little move to dump chips between passes was cool, but even if that was absolutely necessary that's still only requires 4 axes...
Good point. It certainly doesn't need to be on a 5-axis machine. In our experience, 5-axis machines tend to be overbuilt and therefore more stable for some jobs, but that really depends on what you've got on the shop floor.
Awesome video!
Thank you. We are currently producing the next episode in this series. So, stay tuned.
I dont understand why virtually all medical parts have such tight tolerances. There is often no need.
gotta justify that expensive degree somehow... "biomedical engineer" doesnt mean "good at technical drawings" or "basic design philosophy". it means "high salary".
Probably because you want things that are used to save lives to be as identical with each other as possible?
@@CZcamsr69428 i don't think you really understand the subject at hand based on your comment.
Thanks for the response. There seems to be the misunderstanding that tight tolerances always equal higher quality or better performance. We're trying to find a balance between extreme engineering perfection and practicality.
It's about consistency. Many medical products are expendables and can't be used again.
I have a question, if i invest 2k to buy a small cnc machine to practice my skills at home, will the experience enable me to qualify operating a bigger one in a factory for example?
First machine parts without heat treating and leave enough stock material on features with critical dimensions. And then after heat treating do finishing machining with air cooling and without water. Then I would go to measure that part on cmm to check all my tolerance and correct me machining strategies according to measurement protocol.
That's what I would do.
Thank you for your comment. We think there is no practical way (again, within reasonable time and cost restraints), to maintain 7 CTQs both before and after heat treatment, as it's impossible to anticipate how much the material will warp after heat treatment.
Great video.
Thank you. We are currently producing the next episode in this series. So, stay tuned.
@@starrapid can't wait!
As a design engineer, I see this part as an example of overengineering. Its complexity makes production challenging and its function unclear. I prioritize designing products with simpler, more efficient components. In this case, I wonder if a redesign with simpler parts could achieve the same functionality.
Quite possibly so, but we are not the product designer in this case.
This was a case study?! This is daily life for any job shop machinist lol. We’d quote this for like $200 a part per the drawing you showed. It’s always funny seeing big shops massively overthink something so simple
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Many jobs may seem simple of course only after figuring out all the details, but getting there takes a while. For example, identifying the right method for measuring the radii of the indentations was not self-evident. And no workshop, anywhere or of any size, is going to produce a small part with seven CTQs without facing a very high scrap rate.
@@starrapid why would you have a high scrap rate? We run common modern cnc machines and if a tolerance is varying by more than a thou over the entire 2d profile like you have for those grooves something is very wrong. We obviously have to comp it in, but the entire 2d profile shouldn’t have any form variance outside of that unless your machines are dying or something. Programmed and ran a part with 12 CTQs yesterday, 15/15 parts were good first time. Multiple holes +- 0.0003” with locations under 0.00015” on a 5 year old dnm. Might be worth a ball-bar test if it takes this long and so much scrap. Are your engineers modeling to nominal dimensions or one end of tolerance? An issue I see a lot is not modeling to center of tolerance, but different ends of multiple tolerances, requiring a lot of time by the machinist to correct with comp and measuring. Model all to nominal, comp a couple in, and everything else should be within a tenth or two. Unless the programmer doesn’t grasp tool pressure and is loading the tool different on each cut and flexing it differently.
Well, that explains the why of the rise of 3D manufacturing
Printing these would bring up all kinds of different problems to be solved. For one, laser sintering would introduce all kinds of thermal stress, causing the part to warp and thus require further post-machining.
0:29 Which CAD Software is this?
I don't know anything about anything, but why not cast it? Material parameters?
Cost and material parameters.
This one best video for mechanical engineers
Thank you. We have plans to make more videos in this case study series. So, stay tuned :)
I wonder when I see parts like these, would it be possible to make the design of such parts easier to manufacture without loosing functionality. But probably %99 of the time you would end up with a similar design I guess. Generally they converge to such extent out of necessity.
We imagine it might be, but again we were not involved in the development of the entire product so we can't really say what would be the best way to achieve their design objective.
Spline reference, choo choo!
Why do you need a spline? HOW do you even make a spline? Calculating one is hard enough.
Some of the horrible GD&T I've seen makes you wonder if these people ever learnt to draw. Gear PCD with 0.02mm concentricity to a bore with a 0.2mm diameter tolerance, families of nearly identical parts that have lengths referenced to different surfaces (some parts are from the end, some parts a from a shoulder), mindless conversions from nominal fractional to metric with no thought to how the extra decimal place now bumps it into the next tolerance bracket.
In the future we hope to have more videos that highlight issues related to tolerances and dimensions, because it's a subject that comes up often and we really want to inform our clients so they get the most out of their valuable design time.
So this makes me wonder if this is just bad design or if it's a clip for a complex mechanism in a satellite or something
It's a proprietary medical device. Maybe more complicated than it needs to be, but we're not privvy to the entire build, just this component.
If you would have a chance to discuss/reduce design of aviation parts and tolerances on them, aircraft prices will down %60-70 😄😄😄
Thanks for the suggestion. We will discuss design/tolerances specifically for aviation parts in the future.
😮😮💯👏👏
Thank you. We are already making the next one in this series. And many more planned. Consider subscribing and stay tuned :)
@@starrapid 👋👋😊
If it’s just a clicky switch why did it need to be high strength 17-4PH? Structurally it could have been delrin.
We're not really disposed to explain the function of the 'clicky switch', but in this case, no, delrin wouldn't do it.
Ok and not regular 316 either ? 17-4 is for extreme stress situations
@@michaelludvik2173 Yes - we had this conversation, and 17-4PH, in this case.
Why do you machine this over casting it? The material?
Cost and material.
I'd suggest that the client redesigns the element. Those indexing ramps are a problem waiting to happen, ANY wear is going to make the tolerance well out of spec'n.
We make such suggestions where and when we can, but ultimately they wanted it this way for reasons of their own. Our job is then to facilitate.
Sounds like that engineer should not be making drawings or specifying materials.
Of course, as with any professional discipline, the design engineer and the manufacturer learn from one another over time. They will take this lesson and their next design will no doubt improve.
This gives "Why we hate engineers" vibes
We love engineers around here! It's just that sometimes there are issues of communication.
So basically your biggest problem was to figure out the dimensions?
I clicked this because i was wondering about chatter in the longer part thats sticking out or how you clamped it in a fixture. Your problems were disappointing and i think you missed out on talking about actual difficulties. Kind regards.
Yes, of course we have CAM. And no, figuring out the dimensions was not our biggest problem, we merely used this as an opportunity to discuss the different methodologies for measuring radii along a spline. But thanks for the response.
🕉 Satyameva Jayate: Truth and Honesty and Reality gets created when Good Thoughts, Good Deeds, Good Acts are allowed to achieve the small steps needed for the correct choices and correct decisions to be made. Satyameva Jayate
Thank you. We are already making the next one in this series. And many more planned. Consider subscribing and stay tuned :)
This is all too familiar…
Childs play.. 23 years doing cnc R/D.
Lol