WHAT IS THE SELF? ~ Shinzen Young
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
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Self is not only a thought, its an essence you cant change you can only less or prevent its effects this my humble concipt about it
Goes on in loop like a broken record. Thoughts arise right, emotions, right, broken leg, right, sensations arise and they visual and auditory right and you say this is me right? Right
Is there a problem?
I always feel like things are being set up in a specific way with these explanations. I've never felt like a broken leg is me, or like an emotion is me, or like a thought is me. I've had the experience of the broken leg being experienced by me, the emotion being experienced by me, or the thought being experienced (or, in that case, being 'done') by me. There's a difference between being something and having something, and I always feel a bit fooled when spiritual leaders try to set it up as if I identify entirely with those things, like I AM them.
I had a similar reaction. Shinzen Young's teachings, frameworks, and instructions are excellent. I think this explanation is more of a practical orientation to the meditation methods. For me, though, an account of the Self (or 'the Selfing function') would address that it is a kind of mental algorithm for the nodal organization of the perceptions he describes. I see the self as the algorithm or the set of organizing processes, moreso than the perceptions that are being organized. Practically speaking though, I think his description is very effective.
It's similar to describing the visual appearance of a mirror. If you're actually helping someone to visually locate the mirror; it is practical to describe the mirror in terms of the flow of images reflected on its surface. It would be more accurate though to describe the mirror as a colorless, invisible space that organizes a flow of images by interacting with light in a particular way.
One description is practically effective, the other is more conceptually accurate or specific.
and i experience the sense of me, this is where identification creates the illusion of self
jackdawcaw The sense of a "me" supposedly doing the experiencing is just another thought-sensation.
@@compulsiverambler1352 then who is experiencing?
The self is the ground that holds reality
Excellent themes... thank you. "Self has really two meanings, or is used in two senses," "one is self, the identity of the individual created by God." "The other self is the ego, the dark, animalistic heritage each one of us has, the lower nature that can develop into a monster of selfishness, brutality, lust and so on." ~ Baha'i Faith
Great summary of experiences, but for me those add up to the person/ego rather than the underlying self. The self can't be grasped by language and never the object of comprehension or intellect. The self is self revealing and it is always too late by the time one attempt's to describe it. The self is neither like anything nor unlike anything, it is like everything and like nothing and beyond both. If this sound confusing, well done, that is the right way to be. Order is delusion and confusion is woke.
This is the “small self.” I think the clip ended too early.
Self is separate yeah… well I have something that I want change…
I’m sitting here by myself…
This sentence I have problems understanding… let’s break it down
Who… I’m
Doing… sitting
Where… by
What… self
Who’s… my
Why is the word myself one word instead of 2
Do we say I’m sitting in mycar
Or myhouse…
My demonstrates possession and in this sentence it has to be self.
Whoa
People do NOT identify with thoughts...they identify with the thinker.
And thats a thought.
Thought is the thinker and thinker is the thought.
I wish I could meet you!
go on a retreat with him. I did about 18 months ago and it was amazing. Here is his retreat schedule: www.shinzen.org/retreat-schedule/
Can't afford it right now. How did you manage to not go totally crazy for 18 months? I get crazy after 40 minutes of meditation ...
Jhanic Satori well you could always go to a 10 Goenka retreat. They are 100% free and operate on donation basis. Also, I went 18 months ago on a 7 day retreat with Shinzen. On retreats One realizes how crazy one is. One does NOT go crazy but rather one starts to become uncrazy.
Jhanic Satori also sits don't last longer than about 60 min. It gets easier during a retreat. You get used to the long sits. 40 minutes is a good mount of time too!
If you could add me on facebook I would really be very very greatfull.Just want to ask a few questions about the experience when you have a few free minutes, I'am Jhanic Satori on facebook
So is the body is different from the ME(ego,self)? The body(brain and body) is the actual physical organism.
The ME is the self,the thinking process(words,images,verbalizing). SO the ME THINKS that the BODY is mine because WE have a SELF awareness capability in the brain that has been slowly being created from thinking (memory,experiences).So we are just a bundle of memories(ego,self) and that Center of thinking knows immediately that the organism is mine.
MY body,MY brain.So the self is attached to the body through memory(which is thinking).
But does the body actually belong to you or to the universe? YOU may THINK it belongs to you but actually it is not mine or yours.Just like the earth, it is not mine or yours.
That sounds about right. :)
I want to get at the process of identification. I see how we identify with body, image, and talk, but do not understand what brings such identification into being. I have a personal hypothesis that identifying B.I.T. combos as a sense of self is a special kind of muscular contraction. We tense up facial and abdominal muscles (among others) in reaction to BIT. We have an aversion to such contraction sensations, which is why the self is unsatisfactory. I have no idea if any of that is valid, but that is my working hunch. I wish Shinzen could comment on what exactly happens when we identify with BIT.
I wouil like question answered. When one says that " you have lost yourself* What does that mean spiritually?
Now, other masters say we are not the mind or the body, and that this is all Maya illusion and the real self is indescribable .....sounds opposite of what is being spoke here?
The sound at the end was quite unpleasant.
Who gets identified?
Everything is fine until the part where he says self is something that changes from moment to moment. It actually does not. Anything that changes is not constant and connot be the self and is only the illusion of the self. When you get a thought you have an option to be it , observe it or analyse it. Although whoever is reading this please understand that there is no difference between what's being observed and the observer, it's all one event. It's a common mis understanding that we have that for an observation to occur you need a observer, but by the actual nature of the universe a process can be self controlled or self observerd without there actually being a observer or a controller. You get an illusion that the self changes when you identify youself with that thought , Although this is a extremely spontaneous process , Check who is one observing thoughts you will notice that's it's nothing but another thought doing the analysis in this way what you call you or the "I" is not actually you but the thought. The actual self is the one where there is no state of thinking whatsoever involved. It's only a being.! More a like a spontaneous happening.
The Buddha defines the self as that aspect of 'us' that believes it can control and own things. This is a delusion that one can learn to see through with the help of the Buddha's teachings, so there really is no self, aside from this delusion.
Is he half Japanese?
Nicky Lamps
No. He studied Japanese as a child but that’s not his heritage.
Hahah that was such a useless explanation, there is no self just, what he just described was the residue of memory and the brains conditioning
there is a self. what he is saying is that if you dont recognize or you identify with self unconsciously, instead of moment by moment experience. you will think the self is continuous and "real" which is not. its just a some of movement by moment experiences. but since most are not equipped to notice experiences separately, they just flow in continuations of similar or same experiences or thoughts- thinking they are "this or that" i.e. hanging onto their identities or memory or brain conditioning. when you are in the zone. there is no continuation of experiences. you notice everything and everything is not related in the sense. each experience is "new". even if the experience repeats itself