The Bay City Rollers story is one of the saddest in the music business. Ripped off left and right and poorly managed. And it wasn’t just the record company, as teen idols they had their faces on every thing. They all should have been millionaires a few times over.
I agree with your analysis 100% however, the saddest story is of Badfinger & how their manager Stan Polley ripped them off so badly, 2 band members (Pete Ham & Tom Evans) committed suicide.
Fil, I always enjoy your spin on all types of music and singers, artists, and groups/bands. You show respect to every genre of music. Love you, much respect from Florida.
I love that you did this video! As a teen in the 70s I was mad about these guys. Imagined I'd marry Ian, God rest his soul. Now, I'm 60 and still love the band. I've read a few books about them and it's awful what happened to them. They were rapped figuratively and from what I've read, some of them literally. Tam Patton was a bully and took full advantage of them. I hope the remaining, living members are happy and living good lives. ❤
Fil, that's devastating, considering their huge record and merchandising sales. I knew the record industry was "dodgy as f#ck", as we say in Australia, but this is absolutely criminal, let alone immoral. How it's at all legal is beyond my comprehension. Being an older teenager at the time, The Rollers weren't my cup of tea, preferring harder rock bands, but I remember Rollermania being massive with the teenybopper crowds. The amount of merchandising was insane. I had never seen anything like it. Fil, this analysis video cracked my heart wide open for these young men who gave the world their all and got nothing in return.
A few years ago I was in a band who were the house band for a Men And Motors TV show ( UK) called Elvis has just left the building. It was a pop quiz show consisting of two teams of celebrities, one team captained by Noddy Holder (Slade) and Clint Boon (Inspiral Carpets). One of the guests was Eric Faulkner from the original line up of the Bay City Rollers. After we had filmed the show we all went to the bar for drinks. Eric was a genuinely nice guy who confessed that he was broke and couldn't afford to buy a round of drinks. So sad tbe way they were ripped off.
@@mariechan9442 I read When the Screaming Stops: The Dark History of the BCR, and the way Tam is described in that book is that he was absolutely a disgusting, horrible man. I knew he was bad, but wow!
I've said in the past "You Rock in more way then one!" You have excellent knowledge of the music industry. This is very educational and informative thanks Fil. You're not just another handsome face staring back at us You have a good head on your shoulders educator Fil.
Oh, you make me a happy girl when you change things up, Fil. This was GREAT! How tragic it is that they worked so hard for so long for practically nothing. Up to now, your words of warning have been buried within other analysis videos. Now you have a video dedicated to this important topic. Well done!
Fil, I’m so glad you are encouraging young musicians to be business-aware. I insist my students READ all of any contract placed before them, ask for clarification when needed, and don’t sign until they are perfectly clear. And pay attention to what your manager, accountant, legal advisors, and sponsors are doing. Success is so much harder to manage than fame, but from there come lasting rewards. You are giving such good advice.
I loved them, had all their posters from Tiger Beat magazine hung up in my room❣ this is disheartening, but even 45 years later, this girl is still a Roller fan🥰 Thanks for the true story.
We had Shang - a - Lang here in the UK every Tuesday tea time, my two brothers made my life hell for the 30 minutes it was on taking the Mickey but I didn't care, and Wednesday morning at school it was the main topic all day. Happy times.
More of a rocker than a roller, but met Les McKeown a few years ago while working in East London and had a chat, he seemed a very decent guy who was still trying hard to carry on in the music business despite all that had happened.
Hi Fil! I am so glad you went back to The Bay City Rollers to complete their story...it was quite interesting to hear the whole story! I have always been interested in those behind the music...I liked reading about the songwriters, etc. it makes perfect sense learning how fame does not equal money! This made me think of Dolly Parton and how she was such a strong business woman, and that is why she made the money she did! She knew early on her music was worth something! It was quite interesting hearing these guys story! Always hate when problems arise between the members...things like that happen unfortunately! Thanks for taking the time to let us go behind the scenes! I felt like I took a class! Have a good weekend! ✌️
Dolly has one song that Presley was going to record if she would give him 1/2 the song credits/ ROYALTIES. She withdrew. I forget the song- i think it was a hit later for her... I guess i would have signed if the Colonel offered me 1/2 rates :(
Thank you for explaining this. I remember hearing them as a kid when they first came out. The music business is corrupt. I’d love to see more episodes like this- the reality of what really happened to artists. Thank you for encouraging independence!!!! Please keep telling the stories so kids hear this!!!!!!!!!!!
Fil - Sound advise. As a retired accountant, I can attest to the fact that you should never, never make a deal where your income is based on the NET profit of anything. I worked for a paperback book publisher for a number of years. Occasionally. we had deals with hardcover book publishers to share "profits" on a title. We would exchange internal profit and loss statements and surprise, surprise no one ever made a profit. Not one penny ever changed hands. Once you allow "expenses" to be deducted from income on a project, you are asking for trouble. It sounds as though a "record deal" is nothing but a loan, which has to be paid back, along with expenses incurred by the company. Not good. By the way, the young ladies of The Warning (taking your advise) are managed by their parents. Rudy, whom you have spoken with, works for Mom and Dad. They all appear to be happy, so far.
Fred Hinckley Net profit is how the majority of retail store managers are paid. A small base salary and a “bonus” percentage of the net profit. But, oddly enough the executives bonuses are based on total sales.
Fil soooo much quality information ...not just here but on all of your analysis videos. Since finding you last month, l’ve become part of the “catch up crew” on these, as well as your past livestreams. Looks like I will be busy for a while lol.I have been lucky enough to be part of your livestreams since finding you. With heartfelt gratitude I thank you for all the work you put into everything you put out. I am honored to be one of your Patrons! Rock! Bev
Eric Faulkner was with Alan and Derek Longmuir from the early days, before Woody and Les joined the group. At one point the group was called The Saxons, and Billy Lyall and Dave Paton were in the group as well, before they left, formed Pilot, and had their hit record "Magic".
Eric was not in the band the Saxon's. Eric Woody and then left all came basically at the same time period period there's many stories. We all know that period this dude definitely did his homework though.
Les passed away this week. You may want at some time to look at the live 1982 recording of Don't Let The Music Die. I think he had quite a good voice live.
I heard Paul McCartney talking about Dave Clark of the Dave Clark Five, was a genius businessman when it came to the record labels, and fared wel. Paul basically said he wish he'd known the formula during the Beatles years. From what I understand Buddy Holly was too.
Mike Adams True regarding Dave Clark, however he was miserly to his band mates , including their incredible lead singer Mike Smith. Rumors are Dave profited on songs he wasn’t the true co-writer on as well. No doubt at all, he came out better than his contemporaries.
Dave Clark also bought up all of the rights and filmed footage of the UK 60's TV pop programme "Ready Steady Go". So he scoops up all the copyright and re-run fees anytime they are shown.
This sent me down a rabbit hole and I really didn't know why I knew who this band was. Turns out it was a certain episode of That 70's Show. Thank you.
Perfect example. Kelly Clarkson recently disclosed, as of 2019, she is finally making money and owns her music since her contract with Fox (American Idol) expired.
Anybody who goes on Idol,the Voice or any of the karaoke shows sells their souls to go on those shows.The company that produces these shows have contestants sign over any songs that they might have written,control Twitter and Facebook content.
The internet and CZcams have been fantastic for young artists wanting to get into “the business”. The great thing is they’re able to have control of their creativity rather than a recording company telling them how to dress and what to sing etc. there’s quite a few very talented musicians on CZcams *waves at Fil* that are doing quite well. Of course they have to finance their own tours and produce their own videos but they’re doing it...their way. So many folks, especially child stars, have been ripped off by movie and recording studios. It really should be s crime. Congrats to you Fil for being one of the smart (and very talented) ones. Rock! P.S. I want a mug. A black one. That would be awesome! 💜💜💜
Even Paul McCartney wrote, "You never give me your money, you only give me your funny paper." Yes, very interesting and informative! Thanks for the follow up.
Loved this group. It was a common story for the manager and label to steal from them. I made my son listen to them when he was 5 in 2005 and that's how he got the last day of the week he couldn't spell. I just told him to sing the song and the test came back with it spaced out SA TUR DAY
Les became a massive alcoholic sadly. But in recent years is doing well. Super nice guy, I met him a few years back. Had a nice chat and got his autograph. Look up Tam Paton to see some truly awful things. Thanks for doing this video Fil. Really makes me wonder if they were treated properly or even just a little better by the label what could have happened as they were started to really show musical independence at the end with some really decent songs of their own creation.
In 1978/79 I was backstage with Triumph & took a photo of Gil Moore doing their books he held up the accounting book & said “Corporate Music”. They may not have become as huge as the Rollers, but kept tabs on the money.
Your advocacy of independent art and creativity is wonderful. I have a lot of hope that your words will be heard by Gen Z, a group I admire for its collective spirit and opposition to a system that benefits only the few. Thank you!
@William Brown Badfinger was the first band I ever saw live. They came to my little high school in my little town in Oregon and it was pretty exciting. I still can't believe they came there!
Great vid. The whole BCR story is so interesting. It had everything. Amazing success and tragedy. It's strange to think that at their peak in 1975 they had already been going (first as the Ambassadors, then the Saxons) for about ten years.
I was sad when Les left, but was very happy with Duncan's leadership! It was like listening to an entirely new band, and bridged the way for me from pop and soft rock, to new wave. Incredible music.
Another band gets screwed by management ( record label ) ! The stories never ending do they.... Young band wants success so bad they sign anything put in front of them, most of them knowing very little if anything about the business ! .......... so sad really 😔 Thank you Fil for getting the message out there and doing all you can to help ! 😆🤘
I read a quote from singer/songwriter Janis Ian where she said, "Anytime a Record Executive tells me they're losing money, I check my pocketbook to make sure my money is still there."
As someone who grew up in Michigan I was surprised to learn that they were not originally from Michigan, fun way to pick a name but they had me fooled, I thought they were hometown kids! Such a tragedy that these labels treat people like that. Its like saying hey I'm gonna come in your house every night and take everything you have every week for the rest of your life just sign the dotted line !
Thanks Fil, this discussion about the business aspects of music and artist exploitation by record companies is very interesting. No doubt that fame and fortune are different beasts. I live in Hollywood and there are many somewhat-famous musicians in town who are struggling financially. Frank Zappa is an example of an artist who took control of his own future when he launched Bizarre Records in 1968 and released albums like We're Only In It For the Money and Lumpy Gravy. He later founded Zappa Records in 1977 and Barking Pumpkin Records in 1980. A fine example of an independent artist.
Thank you Fil for an awesome analysis. 2 things not mentioned - not only did they not make any money, the band was on the hook for a huge tax bill. In an effort to get out from under their contract with Arista, in 1979 they changed their name to "The Rollers". Thanks again!
Very good video Fil, well told and very sad for the Rollers, they were very well respected by the fans but as you say, totally out on a limb from the companies who made money from them, shame you were not around to manage them I am sure you would be great at helm! Thank you, excellent video, told it like it was.
I'm an American and I'm sad to say that our musical taste is very fickle, we love you one day and hate you the next. I loved the Rollers when they came out here. I was 10 and am part Scottish myself. Long like The Rollers!
Thank you for sharing these details. I was a huge fan in the day. I had the LPs, poster on my door, saw them at the Indiana State Fair and had a plaid scarf. I had no idea they got screwed by those who were supposed to take care of them. This is utterly reprehensible. What a true shame.
Brilliant Fil...really interesting and informative! This sad situation rings true for so many bands that had trusted a record label to what’s right! As my Grandfather once told me....The only body who takes better care of your business better than you is NOBODY! Cheers Mario! 😀👌🤘
Thank you ,fil , for coming forward with this cautionary tale. Most people have an extremely naive sense of how the Music Industry functions Glad you are setting the record straight . from your fan Eve G.
The Rollers and Rollermania was huge in Australia. Molly Meldrum raved about them, they came over and toured, appeared on Countdown show (similar to TOTP) and Album sales skyrocketed. ABBA were basically unheard of until Molly got them on TV here, record sales jumped and that brought attention from overseas. Also others like Eurythmics (then The Tourists) comes to mind and one Fil mentioned on another vid. Earlier, if it's not one thing it's another, Stones and Beatles were taxed on a sliding scale as profits increased up to 97% by in the UK so they were forced to move overseas. They were touring the world thinking they had made a fortune but all for nothing. Led Zeppelin were "robbed" of $200,000 (hotel safety deposit box) so at least "they" got back something
ABBA was a major success story. The members took their royalties and used it to buy a hotel chain and a chain of service stations. They sold ABBA watches and other ABBA related souvenirs. They even opened a stock whose value went up as their success soared. When their success run began to make a decline, they sold their stocks so they had done quite well.
My experience when I was practising lawyer, that most artists would not listen to advise. They were so caught up in a bubble of famous lifestyle. It is important to empower oneself with at least some business knowledge. This applies to everybody.
Great information. I am in Canada and I remember when they hit it big here. Eric was my favorite and still is. You should see if you could reach out and interview him. He is an amazing artist. Love you Eric. Thanks from Canada. New subbie.❤
Stuart "Woody" Wood put out a series of Celtic Music set to Nature Sounds, and got some Gold and Silver Awards out of it, while Eric Faulkner put out an album or two, full of songs, a couple years ago, you can find on Band Camp. They are folk songs, and Eric writes, sings and plays acoustic guitar. He seems happy...they deserve at least that much.
The thing that people don't understand, no matter if you work for someone or are self-employed you have a boss and you are selling a product. It doesn't matter what kind of work you do, what industry, skilled or unskilled, you have a boss and you are selling product, yourself.
Artists often screw over other artists as well. Look what Jon Bon Jovi did to Skid Row. At least Richie Sambora relinquished his ownership of Skid Row after their debut album - but Bon Jovi retained his share.
It is so sad that they had this happen them and you Fil would be a great teacher to school all who head down the musical path I can see you at a university as teacher.
I remember as a little kid in 70's Australia how big the band was. The screaming girl hysteria was on a Beatles level for a while. But by the time I really became interested in music around 1980/81 their star had faded in Australia and I didn't even know, until today, that they had released an album in 1981.
And _THAT'S_ what Bowie's song "Fame" was about, kids! The song came out of a conversation that Bowie and John Lennon had about how they'd been screwed by labels and managers. So while all the "purists" call him a sell-out for _Let's Dance,_ pfft, I'm totally on his side. The man needed to get paid! In the 90s, Bowie met Sean Combs, who expected Bowie to be a wimp. As they shook hands, Combs was surprised at the strength of Bowie's grip. "Man, what exercise machine do you use?" Replied Bowie, "It's called keeping my hands on my money."
One of my instructors got signed By the same label as Chicago. They recorded an album, and that album got shelved, In order to keep priority on Chicago, As they had a similar sound. So basically the record company signed them to shelve them. ... And they had to pay back debt for the record.
Used to watch there Saturday morning show here in the US on NBC I think. It only lasted 13 weeks. September 1978 to January 1979. Very talented guys but sad what the record company did to them. Not surprised just very disappointed.
Another great video Fil, I'd forgotten just how many hits they had. What an evil business, even the Beatles had to start Apple Records to get some control over their music. When they toured Australia in 1964 they were signed at the old price, before they broke big, so they did the whole tour for a couple of hundred pounds.
Beyond sad, never cared for them music wise, but their story is one I hope no one else would ever repeat. Thinking of them or Badfinger and others, the more people get educated to that business the less people will get hurt. Glad your talking about this practice, hope as many as possible will heed your warnings-Cheers Fil!
Record labels and management ripping off artists, is a time honoured tradition. Most of the great artists of the 18th and 19th century, died penniless due to poor management. That line from that Blondie song always comes to mind, "I'll keep the money, you can have the fame", all artists should keep that in mind, fame is fleeting and empty, money keeps bread on the table.
I remember an interview of Shirley Manson from the band Garbage saying that when the record company sent a limo to take them to expensive hotels they knew they had made the high life. Then when things went a bit sour they were told 'no, we forgot to say that it's actually you that has to pay for all of it!' If only Distrokid existed back then. On a sidenote Pond5 sent me a PayPal payment for 40 dollars for a piece of my music so there are some good guys out there!! 😁
So many examples of this kind of sad thing in the music biz! Many artists don't realize a recording contract is just like a bank loan and every penny must be paid back. If your records bomb you're still on the hook to the record company financially. I dealt with some unfortunate incidents with a record company myself with my band here in Canada back in the 70s..too much to get into here.. But thankfully got out of it before it ruined us. interesting video Fil! Thanks! 😎🎼🎶🎵🇨🇦🇨🇦
Its heartbreaking really. I feel so sad for them that they were so badly screwed over. What evil parasites the manager and record companies were. Just a group of young and innocent young men cruelly taken advantage of.
I've seen a lot of really good local bands that got nowhere fast because of the music industry where I live . When I hear stories like this I'm glad I went on to be a Hair Solon guru .
So, Sony supposedly paid out approximately 2.9 million pounds and each member only got about 70,000 pounds? Sounds like they still got screwed. I assume the bulk of the settlement went to the lawyer fees, which I'm sure were a lot since the case took almost 10 years to work it's way through the system. It's sad that so many bands in the 70s (one of the best decades for music ever) got screwed over by the record companies.
Back in 1992 I was doing a solo gig an Hennesey's Tavern in Hermosa Beach, CA. The guy coming on after me was billed as the guy from The Bay City Rollers. Solo piano. I remember thinking "why is he doing a gig here? Shouldn't he be a millionaire? Maybe it was bullshit, but that's how he was billed - can't remember his name.
Fil this was very interesting & informative. 👏Every young musician ought to hear what you have to say. It would be well worth their time. Fil do you ever go over the music business end of it when you are giving guitar lessons especially to those who are old enough & can grasp what you are saying? Night Fil.❤Get some rest.😚
Being from the US, I honestly don't remember hearing of any albums beyond "It's a Game," and the song You Made Me Believe in Magic. But you could definitely hear the more sophisticated tone to it. Unfortunately, a lot of artists got screwed in the 60s and the 70s much in the same way they did. Too bad they couldn't have been around today in an era of more artistic control. But then again, I'm sure they were quite young and naive at the time and the record company saw them coming! I'm glad that Les was at least performing and seeming quite happy before he passed away. Thanks for the great upload!
Small Faces original Ronnie Lane ,on radio in Austin Texas said that they were paid with a Semi Kool Flat, Mod Clothes, and Fan Adoration . That's the rule of that era , probably hasn't changed . Rapper Tupac Shakur ,at his death had less than $50,000 U.S., the expensive automobiles he drove were titled in Shug Knight's (his manager) name.
Great points made, Fil. You rock! The world needs more authentic and honest people, like you... and Tom Bukovac. Could you possibly do a review about him?
A great video. The advice for young folks trying to "make it" is priceless. I'm a Scot and was in my early teens when the "Rollers" shot to fame. They had "paid their dues" by working the circuit of clubs and dancehalls around Scotland for years before their chart success. Girls of my age went nuts for the Rollers just as they did for Bowie, Bolan, The Osmonds & David Cassidy. They were on the same level as these guys! The one important person you missed out was the central villain of the piece, their manager, the notorious Tam Paton. Paton was a wealthy Edinbyrgh business man who managed several local bands. He ripped the guys off. He made a fortune off their backs. Years later Paton would be jailed for a string of offences with underage boys. Interestingly the man behind the Rollers first hit was the even more notorious Jonathan King who was jailed for... a string of offences with underage boys. Sadly this is also a recurring theme in the music industry. I recently watched a YT video about the US Boy Band The Backstreet Boys who's story is almost a carbon copy of the Rollers, right down to the paedophile manager who ripped them off and according to band members sexually molested them too. Another interesting story on the rip off theme is of course Berry Gordy and Motown records who famously ripped off the artists on his label. The Supremes had so many "expenses" deducted they received pennies for their efforts after a gruelling tour. Today off course we have...Simon Cowell...
Hey Phil You mentioned who owns the Copyrights of the Name Bay City Rollers it's Stuart Woody Woody who Owns it just Fyi his own NGBCRS are sentimental saw them several times here in America There young and gives it a Fresh sound that keeps The Bay City Rollers Hits Alive!🎶🎵🎼🎸🥁🎤🤘
Brilliant explanation and advice! Before signing any agreement, ask the artists who have travelled a similar road beforehand! If signing, get an experienced attorney. Really hurts artistic expression if they can't get some of the proceeds. Sadly one of the tactics artist managers have done is to keep the artist so poor they can't defend themselves legally.
The Bay City Rollers story is one of the saddest in the music business. Ripped off left and right and poorly managed. And it wasn’t just the record company, as teen idols they had their faces on every thing. They all should have been millionaires a few times over.
Doesn't come close to what happened to Poe.
Was a huge fan as a kid, my daughter loved them as well, when she was alive, she danced EVERYTIME I played them for her!
Moby Grape, another band that was royally screwed by their manager.
They still never got the finger as bad as some others did...
I agree with your analysis 100% however, the saddest story is of Badfinger & how their manager Stan Polley ripped them off so badly, 2 band members (Pete Ham & Tom Evans) committed suicide.
Fil, I always enjoy your spin on all types of music and singers, artists, and groups/bands. You show respect to every genre of music. Love you, much respect from Florida.
Never was much of a fan, but I hate to see anyone being used, and these guys were! Thanks for this one Fil.
And bad finger i cant live.
I love that you did this video! As a teen in the 70s I was mad about these guys. Imagined I'd marry Ian, God rest his soul. Now, I'm 60 and still love the band. I've read a few books about them and it's awful what happened to them. They were rapped figuratively and from what I've read, some of them literally. Tam Patton was a bully and took full advantage of them. I hope the remaining, living members are happy and living good lives. ❤
Fil, that's devastating, considering their huge record and merchandising sales. I knew the record industry was "dodgy as f#ck", as we say in Australia, but this is absolutely criminal, let alone immoral. How it's at all legal is beyond my comprehension.
Being an older teenager at the time, The Rollers weren't my cup of tea, preferring harder rock bands, but I remember Rollermania being massive with the teenybopper crowds. The amount of merchandising was insane. I had never seen anything like it.
Fil, this analysis video cracked my heart wide open for these young men who gave the world their all and got nothing in return.
A few years ago I was in a band who were the house band for a Men And Motors TV show ( UK) called Elvis has just left the building. It was a pop quiz show consisting of two teams of celebrities, one team captained by Noddy Holder (Slade) and Clint Boon (Inspiral Carpets). One of the guests was Eric Faulkner from the original line up of the Bay City Rollers. After we had filmed the show we all went to the bar for drinks. Eric was a genuinely nice guy who confessed that he was broke and couldn't afford to buy a round of drinks. So sad tbe way they were ripped off.
Eric does seem to be a genuinely nice guy as well as Stuart Woody Wood. It's so sad the way they were exploited and ripped off.
That breaks my heart. Eric was also very sick with encephalitis; he nearly died.
Ya
Really sick how Arista could have done this to these kids. They were just working class teenagers and had no idea they were being screwed. Sad.
Their manager did worse than that. Just look up what he did to teenage boys.
Too true. Had the misfortune of meeting that SOB, creepy doesn’t even come close to describe that monster.
@@mariechan9442 I read When the Screaming Stops: The Dark History of the BCR, and the way Tam is described in that book is that he was absolutely a disgusting, horrible man. I knew he was bad, but wow!
I've said in the past "You Rock in more way then one!"
You have excellent knowledge of the music industry.
This is very educational and informative thanks Fil.
You're not just another handsome face staring back at us
You have a good head on your shoulders educator Fil.
than
Oh, you make me a happy girl when you change things up, Fil. This was GREAT! How tragic it is that they worked so hard for so long for practically nothing. Up to now, your words of warning have been buried within other analysis videos. Now you have a video dedicated to this important topic. Well done!
Thank-you, I'm 57 and was a huge Rollar fan, I hope bands today are given better advice and help.
Fil, I’m so glad you are encouraging young musicians to be business-aware. I insist my students READ all of any contract placed before them, ask for clarification when needed, and don’t sign until they are perfectly clear. And pay attention to what your manager, accountant, legal advisors, and sponsors are doing. Success is so much harder to manage than fame, but from there come lasting rewards. You are giving such good advice.
I loved them, had all their posters from Tiger Beat magazine hung up in my room❣ this is disheartening, but even 45 years later, this girl is still a Roller fan🥰
Thanks for the true story.
Thanks, Fil! Now I have to dig out my 45's and listen to the Bay City Rollers.
The Krofft Superstar Hour which became The Bay City Rollers Show, was one of my favorite Saturday morning programs when I was a little kid.
I was a teenager when this show was on and a huge fan! It was definitely my Teenage Dream, lol!
We had Shang - a - Lang here in the UK every Tuesday tea time, my two brothers made my life hell for the 30 minutes it was on taking the Mickey but I didn't care, and Wednesday morning at school it was the main topic all day. Happy times.
mine too!
More of a rocker than a roller, but met Les McKeown a few years ago while working in East London and had a chat, he seemed a very decent guy who was still trying hard to carry on in the music business despite all that had happened.
Hi Fil! I am so glad you went back to The Bay City Rollers to complete their story...it was quite interesting to hear the whole story! I have always been interested in those behind the music...I liked reading about the songwriters, etc. it makes perfect sense learning how fame does not equal money! This made me think of Dolly Parton and how she was such a strong business woman, and that is why she made the money she did! She knew early on her music was worth something! It was quite interesting hearing these guys story! Always hate when problems arise between the members...things like that happen unfortunately! Thanks for taking the time to let us go behind the scenes! I felt like I took a class! Have a good weekend! ✌️
Dolly has one song that Presley was going to record if she would give him 1/2 the song credits/ ROYALTIES. She withdrew. I forget the song- i think it was a hit later for her... I guess i would have signed if the Colonel offered me 1/2 rates :(
The song was “I will always love you.” It wasn’t 1/2 but if Elvis recorded the song, you had to give up all credits.
Thank you for explaining this.
I remember hearing them as a kid when they first came out.
The music business is corrupt.
I’d love to see more episodes like this- the reality of what really happened to artists.
Thank you for encouraging independence!!!!
Please keep telling the stories so kids hear this!!!!!!!!!!!
Sadly this also happened to the band BadFinger. I believe that even several members committed suicide over this. Great analysis Fil.
As always. ❤️🤘🏼
Fil - Sound advise. As a retired accountant, I can attest to the fact that you should never, never make a deal where your income is based on the NET profit of anything. I worked for a paperback book publisher for a number of years. Occasionally. we had deals with hardcover book publishers to share "profits" on a title. We would exchange internal profit and loss statements and surprise, surprise no one ever made a profit. Not one penny ever changed hands. Once you allow "expenses" to be deducted from income on a project, you are asking for trouble. It sounds as though a "record deal" is nothing but a loan, which has to be paid back, along with expenses incurred by the company. Not good.
By the way, the young ladies of The Warning (taking your advise) are managed by their parents. Rudy, whom you have spoken with, works for Mom and Dad. They all appear to be happy, so far.
Fred Hinckley Net profit is how the majority of retail store managers are paid. A small base salary and a “bonus” percentage of the net profit. But, oddly enough the executives bonuses are based on total sales.
I literally just downloaded "Saturday Night" on my iPod just a few days ago. Good memories!
Fil soooo much quality information ...not just here but on all of your analysis videos. Since finding you last month, l’ve become part of the “catch up crew” on these, as well as your past livestreams. Looks like I will be busy for a while lol.I have been lucky enough to be part of your livestreams since finding you. With heartfelt gratitude I thank you for all the work you put into everything you put out. I am honored to be one of your Patrons! Rock! Bev
Thanks Bev!
Eric Faulkner was with Alan and Derek Longmuir from the early days, before Woody and Les joined the group.
At one point the group was called The Saxons, and Billy Lyall and Dave Paton were in the group as well, before they left, formed Pilot, and had their hit record "Magic".
Eric was not in the band the Saxon's. Eric Woody and then left all came basically at the same time period period there's many stories. We all know that period this dude definitely did his homework though.
Les passed away this week. You may want at some time to look at the live 1982 recording of Don't Let The Music Die. I think he had quite a good voice live.
I heard Paul McCartney talking about Dave Clark of the Dave Clark Five, was a genius businessman when it came to the record labels, and fared wel. Paul basically said he wish he'd known the formula during the Beatles years. From what I understand Buddy Holly was too.
Mike Adams True regarding Dave Clark, however he was miserly to his band mates , including their incredible lead singer Mike Smith. Rumors are Dave profited on songs he wasn’t the true co-writer on as well. No doubt at all, he came out better than his contemporaries.
Paul McCartney bought the Buddy Holly catalog so Buddy Holly’s royalties were paid to Paul McCartney who in return, paid Buddy Holly’s family.
Dave Clark also bought up all of the rights and filmed footage of the UK 60's TV pop programme "Ready Steady Go". So he scoops up all the copyright and re-run fees anytime they are shown.
This sent me down a rabbit hole and I really didn't know why I knew who this band was. Turns out it was a certain episode of That 70's Show. Thank you.
Your insane knowledge of these bands and of the often corrupt music industry is extremely valuable. Thanks brother!
No problem!
Yes ....Study the history of the Colonel..habitual gambler..mismanaged Elvis's career badly..thanks Fil
So sad to hear this story of my favorite band of my youth . Makes me appreciate them even more now
Les was a cool 70s Lad, he has a good voice.
Perfect example. Kelly Clarkson recently disclosed, as of 2019, she is finally making money and owns her music since her contract with Fox (American Idol) expired.
Because she was never a _talent,_ she was a marketed product. No sympathy for those kind of "artists"...lol
@Anthem Inc. Idiot
She's always been bought and payed for. She's getting paid for that lame talk show that'll be cancelled soon.
Anybody who goes on Idol,the Voice or any of the karaoke shows sells their souls to go on those shows.The company that produces these shows have contestants sign over any songs that they might have written,control Twitter and Facebook content.
Better not to win - just to make it far enough along for recognition.
A much needed step by step warning for artists world wide to hear and to heed your advice. Fil that was awesome and was interesting . 👍🤟
The internet and CZcams have been fantastic for young artists wanting to get into “the business”. The great thing is they’re able to have control of their creativity rather than a recording company telling them how to dress and what to sing etc. there’s quite a few very talented musicians on CZcams *waves at Fil* that are doing quite well. Of course they have to finance their own tours and produce their own videos but they’re doing it...their way. So many folks, especially child stars, have been ripped off by movie and recording studios. It really should be s crime. Congrats to you Fil for being one of the smart (and very talented) ones. Rock!
P.S. I want a mug. A black one. That would be awesome! 💜💜💜
Even Paul McCartney wrote, "You never give me your money, you only give me your funny paper." Yes, very interesting and informative! Thanks for the follow up.
Yea, that was Billy.
Loved this group. It was a common story for the manager and label to steal from them. I made my son listen to them when he was 5 in 2005 and that's how he got the last day of the week he couldn't spell. I just told him to sing the song and the test came back with it spaced out SA TUR DAY
Les became a massive alcoholic sadly. But in recent years is doing well. Super nice guy, I met him a few years back. Had a nice chat and got his autograph. Look up Tam Paton to see some truly awful things. Thanks for doing this video Fil. Really makes me wonder if they were treated properly or even just a little better by the label what could have happened as they were started to really show musical independence at the end with some really decent songs of their own creation.
In 1978/79 I was backstage with Triumph & took a photo of Gil Moore doing their books he held up the accounting book & said “Corporate Music”. They may not have become as huge as the Rollers, but kept tabs on the money.
Valuable advice. Outraged about the exploitation of the young performers involved. On another note, you got me on a Bay City Rollers jag!
Your advocacy of independent art and creativity is wonderful. I have a lot of hope that your words will be heard by Gen Z, a group I admire for its collective spirit and opposition to a system that benefits only the few. Thank you!
The other group I remember this happening to was Badfinger
Creedence Clearwater Revival
It happened to lots of bands. The Badfinger story is the most well known.
Small Faces.
The Back Street Boys. Bros.
@William Brown Badfinger was the first band I ever saw live. They came to my little high school in my little town in Oregon and it was pretty exciting. I still can't believe they came there!
Great vid. The whole BCR story is so interesting. It had everything. Amazing success and tragedy. It's strange to think that at their peak in 1975 they had already been going (first as the Ambassadors, then the Saxons) for about ten years.
Wow, smashing analysis, Fil--pay attention, kids!
"Elevator" was DOA in America--but not a bad record! Some great bangers on there.
Great songs on that album.
I was sad when Les left, but was very happy with Duncan's leadership! It was like listening to an entirely new band, and bridged the way for me from pop and soft rock, to new wave. Incredible music.
Another band gets screwed by management ( record label ) !
The stories never ending do they.... Young band wants success so bad they sign anything put in front of them, most of them knowing very little if anything about the business !
.......... so sad really 😔
Thank you Fil for getting the message out there and doing all you can to help ! 😆🤘
I read a quote from singer/songwriter Janis Ian where she said, "Anytime a Record Executive tells me they're losing money, I check my pocketbook to make sure my money is still there."
As someone who grew up in Michigan I was surprised to learn that they were not originally from Michigan, fun way to pick a name but they had me fooled, I thought they were hometown kids!
Such a tragedy that these labels treat people like that. Its like saying hey I'm gonna come in your house every night and take everything you have every week for the rest of your life just sign the dotted line !
Thanks Fil, this discussion about the business aspects of music and artist exploitation by record companies is very interesting. No doubt that fame and fortune are different beasts. I live in Hollywood and there are many somewhat-famous musicians in town who are struggling financially. Frank Zappa is an example of an artist who took control of his own future when he launched Bizarre Records in 1968 and released albums like We're Only In It For the Money and Lumpy Gravy. He later founded Zappa Records in 1977 and Barking Pumpkin Records in 1980. A fine example of an independent artist.
Thank you Fil for an awesome analysis. 2 things not mentioned - not only did they not make any money, the band was on the hook for a huge tax bill. In an effort to get out from under their contract with Arista, in 1979 they changed their name to "The Rollers". Thanks again!
Spot on as always Fil!
Thank you Fil for all you do .
Very good video Fil, well told and very sad for the Rollers, they were very well respected by the fans but as you say, totally out on a limb from the companies who made money from them, shame you were not around to manage them I am sure you would be great at helm! Thank you, excellent video, told it like it was.
I'm an American and I'm sad to say that our musical taste is very fickle, we love you one day and hate you the next. I loved the Rollers when they came out here. I was 10 and am part Scottish myself. Long like The Rollers!
Thank you for sharing these details. I was a huge fan in the day. I had the LPs, poster on my door, saw them at the Indiana State Fair and had a plaid scarf. I had no idea they got screwed by those who were supposed to take care of them. This is utterly reprehensible. What a true shame.
Brilliant Fil...really interesting and informative! This sad situation rings true for so many bands that had trusted a record label to what’s right! As my Grandfather once told me....The only body who takes better care of your business better than you is NOBODY! Cheers Mario! 😀👌🤘
I enjoy hearing about this side of the business too. Very cool to add these types of videos to your quiver.
Thank you ,fil , for coming forward with this cautionary tale. Most people have an extremely naive sense of how the Music Industry functions Glad you are setting the record straight . from your fan Eve G.
The Rollers and Rollermania was huge in Australia. Molly Meldrum raved about them, they came over and toured, appeared on Countdown show (similar to TOTP) and Album sales skyrocketed. ABBA were basically unheard of until Molly got them on TV here, record sales jumped and that brought attention from overseas. Also others like Eurythmics (then The Tourists) comes to mind and one Fil mentioned on another vid.
Earlier, if it's not one thing it's another, Stones and Beatles were taxed on a sliding scale as profits increased up to 97% by in the UK so they were forced to move overseas. They were touring the world thinking they had made a fortune but all for nothing. Led Zeppelin were "robbed" of $200,000 (hotel safety deposit box) so at least "they" got back something
ABBA was a major success story. The members took their royalties and used it to buy a hotel chain and a chain of service stations. They sold ABBA watches and other ABBA related souvenirs. They even opened a stock whose value went up as their success soared.
When their success run began to make a decline, they sold their stocks so they had done quite well.
My experience when I was practising lawyer, that most artists would not listen to advise. They were so caught up in a bubble of famous lifestyle. It is important to empower oneself with at least some business knowledge. This applies to everybody.
Great episode!
I love the backstory stuff
Great job again Fil. It's so sad to see artists being cheated out of a lot of money like that!
Excellent discussion on the business side of the music industry.
Great information. I am in Canada and I remember when they hit it big here. Eric was my favorite and still is. You should see if you could reach out and interview him. He is an amazing artist. Love you Eric. Thanks from Canada. New subbie.❤
Stuart "Woody" Wood put out a series of Celtic Music set to Nature Sounds, and got some Gold and Silver Awards out of it, while Eric Faulkner put out an album or two, full of songs,
a couple years ago, you can find on Band Camp. They are folk songs, and Eric writes, sings and plays acoustic guitar. He seems happy...they deserve at least that much.
The thing that people don't understand, no matter if you work for someone or are self-employed you have a boss and you are selling a product. It doesn't matter what kind of work you do, what industry, skilled or unskilled, you have a boss and you are selling product, yourself.
😮😮 Screwing the artists over is pretty much industry standard isn't it?
@john smith That's right, just ask Grand Funk Railroad.
@@louisb5563 that and I.R.S. too.
That was the premise of Phanton of the Paradise. I loved that movie, even though I can't stand what has become of Meat Loaf.
Sadly, yes!
Artists often screw over other artists as well. Look what Jon Bon Jovi did to Skid Row. At least Richie Sambora relinquished his ownership of Skid Row after their debut album - but Bon Jovi retained his share.
Thank you so much. Very interesting and very good told.
It is so sad that they had this happen them and you Fil would be a great teacher to school all who head down the musical path I can see you at a university as teacher.
I remember as a little kid in 70's Australia how big the band was. The screaming girl hysteria was on a Beatles level for a while. But by the time I really became interested in music around 1980/81 their star had faded in Australia and I didn't even know, until today, that they had released an album in 1981.
Excellent bro and so tragic for the band. Though I am more of a rock fan then anything else I did like the Rollers back in the day.
Very informative! I was 13 in 1977 and loved them.
And _THAT'S_ what Bowie's song "Fame" was about, kids! The song came out of a conversation that Bowie and John Lennon had about how they'd been screwed by labels and managers. So while all the "purists" call him a sell-out for _Let's Dance,_ pfft, I'm totally on his side. The man needed to get paid! In the 90s, Bowie met Sean Combs, who expected Bowie to be a wimp. As they shook hands, Combs was surprised at the strength of Bowie's grip. "Man, what exercise machine do you use?" Replied Bowie, "It's called keeping my hands on my money."
One of my instructors got signed By the same label as Chicago. They recorded an album, and that album got shelved, In order to keep priority on Chicago, As they had a similar sound. So basically the record company signed them to shelve them. ... And they had to pay back debt for the record.
Used to watch there Saturday morning show here in the US on NBC I think. It only lasted 13 weeks. September 1978 to January 1979. Very talented guys but sad what the record company did to them. Not surprised just very disappointed.
Another great video Fil, I'd forgotten just how many hits they had. What an evil business, even the Beatles had to start Apple Records to get some control over their music. When they toured Australia in 1964 they were signed at the old price, before they broke big, so they did the whole tour for a couple of hundred pounds.
Beyond sad, never cared for them music wise, but their story is one I hope no one else would ever repeat. Thinking of them or Badfinger and others, the more people get educated to that business the less people will get hurt. Glad your talking about this practice, hope as many as possible will heed your warnings-Cheers Fil!
Very Informative Thank you Young Man
Record labels and management ripping off artists, is a time honoured tradition. Most of the great artists of the 18th and 19th century, died penniless due to poor management.
That line from that Blondie song always comes to mind, "I'll keep the money, you can have the fame", all artists should keep that in mind, fame is fleeting and empty, money keeps bread on the table.
Interesting stuff mate, these guys were just before my time but it's nice to see they weren't just another boy band
I remember an interview of Shirley Manson from the band Garbage saying that when the record company sent a limo to take them to expensive hotels they knew they had made the high life. Then when things went a bit sour they were told 'no, we forgot to say that it's actually you that has to pay for all of it!' If only Distrokid existed back then.
On a sidenote Pond5 sent me a PayPal payment for 40 dollars for a piece of my music so there are some good guys out there!! 😁
Excellent explanation of the difference between fame and success. Well done video.
Thanks for discussing the BCR appreciate your views, I completely agree with you. So sad. ❤️
So many examples of this kind of sad thing in the music biz! Many artists don't realize a recording contract is just like a bank loan and every penny must be paid back. If your records bomb you're still on the hook to the record company financially. I dealt with some unfortunate incidents with a record company myself with my band here in Canada back in the 70s..too much to get into here.. But thankfully got out of it before it ruined us. interesting video Fil! Thanks! 😎🎼🎶🎵🇨🇦🇨🇦
Wow, Fil! Common sense! This video should be required viewing for any artist. You made excellent points.
A family friend of mine drove her mother mental playing the song "Saturday Night" over and over and over.
No music video to analyze, you didn't play the guitar, but you just gave one of the most important lectures about the music industry.
👍
Excellent synopsis and advice. My brother's new project dropped a couple days ago...exclusively online and completely independent.
Its heartbreaking really. I feel so sad for them that they were so badly screwed over. What evil parasites the manager and record companies were. Just a group of young and innocent young men cruelly taken advantage of.
I've seen a lot of really good local bands that got nowhere fast because of the music industry where I live . When I hear stories like this I'm glad I went on to be a Hair Solon guru .
So, Sony supposedly paid out approximately 2.9 million pounds and each member only got about 70,000 pounds? Sounds like they still got screwed. I assume the bulk of the settlement went to the lawyer fees, which I'm sure were a lot since the case took almost 10 years to work it's way through the system. It's sad that so many bands in the 70s (one of the best decades for music ever) got screwed over by the record companies.
Back in 1992 I was doing a solo gig an Hennesey's Tavern in Hermosa Beach, CA. The guy coming on after me was billed as the guy from The Bay City Rollers. Solo piano. I remember thinking "why is he doing a gig here? Shouldn't he be a millionaire? Maybe it was bullshit, but that's how he was billed - can't remember his name.
Duncan Faure.
very informative great show..
Thank you Fil, Very interesting. Too bad so many musicians were taken advantage of and still are. Hope you are doing good where you are! Take care~
Hey Fil , Good Show Tonight.
Fil this was very interesting & informative. 👏Every young musician ought to hear what you have to say. It would be well worth their time. Fil do you ever go over the music business end of it when you are giving guitar lessons especially to those who are old enough & can grasp what you are saying? Night Fil.❤Get some rest.😚
Being from the US, I honestly don't remember hearing of any albums beyond "It's a Game," and the song You Made Me Believe in Magic. But you could definitely hear the more sophisticated tone to it. Unfortunately, a lot of artists got screwed in the 60s and the 70s much in the same way they did. Too bad they couldn't have been around today in an era of more artistic control. But then again, I'm sure they were quite young and naive at the time and the record company saw them coming! I'm glad that Les was at least performing and seeming quite happy before he passed away. Thanks for the great upload!
Small Faces original Ronnie Lane ,on radio in Austin Texas said that they were paid with a Semi Kool Flat, Mod Clothes, and Fan Adoration . That's the rule of that era , probably hasn't changed . Rapper Tupac Shakur ,at his death had less than $50,000 U.S., the expensive automobiles he drove were titled in Shug Knight's (his manager) name.
Great points made, Fil. You rock! The world needs more authentic and honest people, like you... and Tom Bukovac. Could you possibly do a review about him?
Thanks!
A great video. The advice for young folks trying to "make it" is priceless. I'm a Scot and was in my early teens when the "Rollers" shot to fame. They had "paid their dues" by working the circuit of clubs and dancehalls around Scotland for years before their chart success. Girls of my age went nuts for the Rollers just as they did for Bowie, Bolan, The Osmonds & David Cassidy. They were on the same level as these guys! The one important person you missed out was the central villain of the piece, their manager, the notorious Tam Paton. Paton was a wealthy Edinbyrgh business man who managed several local bands. He ripped the guys off. He made a fortune off their backs. Years later Paton would be jailed for a string of offences with underage boys. Interestingly the man behind the Rollers first hit was the even more notorious Jonathan King who was jailed for... a string of offences with underage boys. Sadly this is also a recurring theme in the music industry. I recently watched a YT video about the US Boy Band The Backstreet Boys who's story is almost a carbon copy of the Rollers, right down to the paedophile manager who ripped them off and according to band members sexually molested them too. Another interesting story on the rip off theme is of course Berry Gordy and Motown records who famously ripped off the artists on his label. The Supremes had so many "expenses" deducted they received pennies for their efforts after a gruelling tour. Today off course we have...Simon Cowell...
Hey Phil You mentioned who owns the Copyrights of the Name Bay City Rollers it's Stuart Woody Woody who Owns it just Fyi his own NGBCRS are sentimental saw them several times here in America
There young and gives it a Fresh sound that keeps The Bay City Rollers Hits Alive!🎶🎵🎼🎸🥁🎤🤘
I think Eric owns it too, funny how Alan and Derek don't and they're the founding members
Brilliant explanation and advice! Before signing any agreement, ask the artists who have travelled a similar road beforehand! If signing, get an experienced attorney. Really hurts artistic expression if they can't get some of the proceeds. Sadly one of the tactics artist managers have done is to keep the artist so poor they can't defend themselves legally.