One of the most terrifying scenes in film... I remember the tears simply erupted when he screamed, "No Chava, no..." It was such a brutal shock because I was sure he'd accept her like he did Tzeitel and Hodel... I wonder if even the director knew how effective that scene was going to be... "Fiddler on the Roof" - one of mankind's greatest creations!
MrsLukeArnold I meant it was a very shocking reaction from Tevye, and I was simply not prepared for that... I thought he'd accept Chava being the warm, fuzzy person he typically is. It was deeply unsettling for me when he didn't. And the scene was very effective that way: he screams, "No Chava, no..." to her; the "Tradition" music rushes in to reinforce his reaction; then Chava screams desperately back for her Papa to accept her... Just writing about it gives me the shivers! I was and continue to be deeply affected by this movie... Hope this clarifies :)
MrsLukeArnold Oh, that's sad... I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the film, but I hope you'll eventually find a way to watch all three hours of it. I can't really say life-affirming - because it ends so differently from how it starts - but it is certainly about life. And faith. And, of course, Tradition :) Come to think of it, they're all hand-in-hand - which, of course, is the whole point of the movie ;-) God bless!
I cried for both of them. They were both in agony. Topol was an unparalleled Tevye, an this scene tears the heart out as both of theirs were torn. It is also a masterful piece of writing, letting the audience think he will accept her as he did the other girls. But this is different. In this, he must choose between his daughter, his favorite daughter, and his God who, he deeply believes, has forbidden her marriage to a gentile and said that a Jew who marries a gentile must be considered to have died and shunned by both family and community. He is probably also blaming himself because his leniency with the other girls perhaps allowed Chava to think she might have both worlds. He warns her when she approaches him about it earlier....but “he eventually caved to my sisters.” She is scared but hopeful.....as is the audience....so it is a terrible, dramatic shock when he says, emphatically, “NO! There IS NO other hand!” Not for this. It is completely heart rending, for both of them.
Grew up with this realization. My dad who is actually 1/2 Jewish and half Protestant Northern Irish, married my mother Roman Catholic Republic of Ireland and we lived in our bubble, f-ing the begrudgers. Best parents ever, 60 years together and respect for both Judeo and Christian teachings. Acceptance, morality, ethics and love. That is spirituality.
It's impossible for me to condemn or condone Tevye here because he's disowning his daughter over a conflict in spirituality, on the other hand the Russian military was driving his people off of their land and destroying the culture he devoted his life to. All that would be left would be his traditions, which is the point of the story. The soldier she married being a Christian is only half the problem. This scene is heart breaking. The internal and external conflict, the strength and optimism they show amidst the constant destruction of their way of life is inspiring. Even as they leave at the end they talk cheerfully of going to America. As they pack up everything they own into carts and start pushing it out in order to unpack and rebuild in a new world. Fiddler on the Roof is one of the greatest stories ever told. And this is one of the greatest movies ever made.
+DudeWithFood The "point of the story" is that 'he' has NO sons. 'Man' enters 'woman' . . . and 'son' is born. ALL of Tevyev's life is dream. And all the "dream" includes these various mirrors of 'his' love . . . the daughters AND Golda. And now, even they, are leaving him alone on this Earthly plain. Come to terms with that, Hercules. Dance to that music, Prometheus.
+DudeWithFood its a great, great movie. i totally am with tevye here- if one abandons one's faith, and one's faith informs one's very existence, what choice is there???? tevye is in for the long term- his soul's fate with god. a relationship with one's daughter cant compete. tragic though. god forbid i be in that position.
For me this is the most tragic scene in cinematography. With no special effects, noone dying, noone bleeding, no cliches and no cheap emotional tricks.
Yes. Just watched it for the first time in a couple of years but it still hits me like it did when I originally saw it over 35 years ago. That look in his eyes is so sad and haunting, it makes me wonder what memory Topol used to give such a brilliant performance.
In the original story "Tevye and his Daughters" Chava leaves her Russian Orthodox husband when she learns that the Jews are being expelled. She attempts to return to her family and share their exile. The author doesn't say whether or not Tevye forgives her and takes her back. He instead asks the reader to decide what they would do if they were in Tevye's place.
Tzeitel and Motel broke the tradition of obeying the matchmaker, but still asked Tevye for permission and was a completely acceptable Jewish marriage. Tevye could accept that. Hodel and Perchik broke the tradition of asking Tevye for permission to marry, but Perchik was still Jewish and they asked for his blessing. Tevye could accept that. Chava and Fedya eloped and Chava abandoned the Jewish faith. That was too much for Tevye. Makes complete sense to me. The first two couplings broke minor traditions, which can still be reconciled to a traditional Jewish world view, but Chava not only broke the traditions of adhering to a matchmaker and asking her father for permission, but she also became an apostate. For a traditional early twentieth century Russian Jewish man to accept his daughter becoming an apostate would have been unrealistic. Doesn't make it any less of a harrowing scene though, and anyone who still thinks like Tevye does here nowadays is hopelessly anachronistic IMO.
So sad though because if they did immigrate to America and she stayed she may have become a widow during the First World War or starved during the Revolution. I can see though Tevyes decision though. I think even today if they convert to the Christian faith or marry outside of they're shunned. It's a realistic but sad ending.
Ultimately he does forgive her. People often forget this fact, but in the final scene as they are about to leave, he does forgive her. He says God Bless you and let's Golde give her the address to keep in contact. In the end he does accept it. This is the reason Fiddler On The Roof is controversial in some parts of the Jewish community.
My daughter is getting married outside the Jewish faith and this scene gets me to the core. I would never abandon my daughter but I cannot ever give her my blessing so to speak as things like intermarriage and not eating pork have been engrained in my head all my life. It's something I've slowly come to peace with for the sake of family but I'll never feel happy or comfortable about it. It is what it is but it's not worth never speaking to my daughter again.
@@semowery kinda get that too. One day id want to convert, i was raised christian but now convert to another denomination that the one i grew up with would disagree like theologically speaking. And one day marry too. From a daughter's view, i love my father so much to where i can give my life to him easy no question asked . But I also love my faith even more. So its hard , but nothing like to that level of changing a completely different religion.
When I was little, I hated Tevye for what he did but as I’m older, I under now. Yes it’s cruel to disown your own child. Chava and Fiedca couldn’t help that they fell in love. But it’s not that simple. Not only did Chava marry outside the faith, she married one of the people who were oppressing, driving out and killing people like her, like her family. They destroyed her sister’s wedding and half the town as part of ‘a demonstration’ not so long ago. What kind of choices did Tevye really have?
Incredibly moving scene from the musical. I wish this video included the song beforehand to set the mood, but the emotion is still there. Tevye is forced to choose between two things he loves: God, or his daughter. An unimaginably painful decision, faith over family, but in doing so, he stays strong in his relationship with God and remains true to himself and his values.
@@radconserv68 by what, not ostracizing his daughter forever. His rejection and disapproval were clear, but he would retain ties and exchange letters. She didnt become a monster or something for f*cksake.
PatchesRips if you let your emotions rule who you love that it “can’t be controlled” than I think such a person has watched one too many Disney programs.
It really gets me how, when she first calls for him, he looks up at her with a happy and almost hopeful expression- only to remember a second later and his face falls.
I like to think Chava and Teyve reconciled in the end, thanks to Teyve breaking a bit and saying "God be with you" to which her Tzeitel knew meant she had permission to convey to Chava (and Chava knew Teyve was the one who said it by the way Tzeitel reacted and the way her mom became overjoyed) and then the mom taking that small break and telling Chava where she can find them. Teyve wasn't really mad at that and feigned exaggerated annoyance. That small thing meant that the path to reconciliation was possible. I just hope Chava and her husband and their family made it out ok considering what was going to happen to the Russians and Jews during this time period and decades afterwards.
When I was a kid and first saw this movie with my family I did not understand why Tevia turned his back on Chava. I remember I asked my grandmother about it. My grandmother explained to me that Chava had married a Christian man. Given the fact that Chava was Jewish and the Christians were treating the Jews so badly, from Tevia's perspective what Chava had done was completely unacceptable.
they do. it is clear when he says "And God be with you" that while he is not turning against his faith and will never accept Chava's marriage to Fyedka, that he is showing that he still loves her and that over time wounds may heal. That is very clear - why else would that line be included? they could've easily shown him ignoring her once more, solidifying the break, but they chose not to. Choices like that are intentional, don't let your bias make you blind.
oldmoviemusic He *mumbles* "and God be with you" almost under his breath. Chava didn't hear him, and she left, still anguished. All indication is that they never saw each other again, and with that comes the implication that Chava spent the rest of her life believing her father hated her.
I don't think we watched the same movie... Because Tevye says "and G-d be with you," which Tzeitl repeats louder for her sister. After that Chava is NOTICEABLY happier and they give the indication that they will eventually go to America from Poland...
If there's a heaven then Tevye deserves to be there. He asks God for a small fortune, gets the chance to have it at the expense of his daughters, and chooses to be their wellbeing over his own wealth. Madlad.
Is it really? Maybe physically it's better, because it involves no bodily harm. Emotionally? He may just as well have ran her through with a red hot iron. The worst part is he never reconciles with her. FUCK him. This scene made me so angry.
Dale Greer But she didn't hear him, and all indication is given that they never saw each other again. Nothing is a hell of a last thing to ever say to your daughter face to face. Especially when you refuse to look her in the eye, or even acknowledge her existence.
I mean how can someone say honor killing it better? you're making the person die I'd rather be shunned then killed for sure even if it's hard. I would at least have future..
I've seen a lot of people say that Tevye should have been more tolerant, choose his daughter over tradition. What they don't understand is that for a religion without a homeland or central leadership tradition is what holds everything together. Some things can be "bent", but as Tevye said if he tries to bend far enough to allow mixed marriages the tradition holding them together will break. Assimilation was on the rise during this period, only by marrying other Jews could the tradition stay strong enough to be passed on to the next generation. Jews like Chava who married non-Jews almost always left Judaism behind.
No other scene in any movie has ever affected me so traumatically because I was so utterly convinced that a man who I could identify with in so many ways and on so many levels could do something like this in spite of his own daughters heart rending screams.
+radconserv68 Trying to tear anyone away from another whom they love more than anyone in the world and who loves them more than anyone else in world is NEVER the best thing for them . It is the WORST thing . It is evil. It robs them of the chance to love and be loved. If the pure love of a boy for a girl and a girl for a boy - which is the engine of The Creators zeal for the replenishment of the earth - conflicts with a 'law' anywhere then that law is wrong and must be amended or discarded. The Law was made for Man . Man was not made for the Law. Those two sentences are at the heart of and are the basis for the Law. If you have a problem with that then you do not understand The Law. So don't be so precious about holding forth about something you do not understand.
John Jones Well, look at Tevye's point of view: all his life, the Russian Christians have persecuted him, his family, and his people; at the end of the film, they will drive Tevye and his family out of their homes completely. In his mind, Chava has allied herself with a force that seeks to destroy his home and way of life--she has, in the most fundamental way, rejected her family. What do you believe in most strongly, and how would you react if someone you love dearly seemingly allied with the faction most dedicated to opposing that belief?
@@JohnJones-ct9pr very milquetoast theology to place human affection as the supreme morality. A) how do you know their love is so wonderful? They’re young. B) would you give the same advice to a parent forbidding their child to date a cousin or other relative? To an Orthodox Jew it might feel about as egregious as that. C) if you think love for a person is more important than love for God/the creator then you don’t very well understand the God of Judeo-Christian tradition. You’re free to disagree with those faith traditions of course, but it sounded like you’re speaking on their behalf.
It’s heartbreaking. It reminds me of a cousin of mine who rejected his brother for marrying outside the faith. They didn’t talk for years until his brother finally relented and accepted it.
I'm in a relationship with my boyfriend, Tim and he's a public schooler. Me, I'm a homeschooler and I come from and part of a homeschool group/community. But sometimes I feel that I'm *betraying* my community because of my relationship with a non-homeschooler. Would you agree?
Heart-breaking scene but hardly surprising. They are Orthodox Jews and are not allowed to marry outside their faith. That means Chava converted to Orthodox Christianity, giving up Judaism. Perhaps if Russia was kind to Jews and Tevye and his family leaved in peace and happiness among the Christian villagers, he could have accepted it. But she didn't just break the laws of his faith, she married a Christian man at a time where Jews in Russia were being horribly abused and even slaughtered by the Christian Russians. I feel for both Tevye and Chava. She's a grown woman who can do as she pleases but she has to face the consequences for her actions. Very difficult decision for both of them and in the books it all works out very differently. Chava did what she had to for love but in the books she does end up choosing her people and her family over her husband.
He was right! You dont break a link of thousands of years your ancester died for never giving it up! Pogroms inquisitions crusades even Nazis after burning kids alive went to celebrate christmas! The Vatican... evil beyond, looked the other way and helped nazis to escape!
I kinda have this feel of all you have said described. Cuz see, I'm in a relationship and dating with my boyfriend, Tim and he's a public schooler whereas for me, I'm a homeschooler. I come from a homeschool community and in my group, I know all of the people I knew throughout my life are married and have families of their own. Basically, I perfectly describe it as a tribe or a clan since all the people have known each other since their early childhoods into adulthoods. But since I'm in a relationship with a non-homeschooler, I feel that I'm " *betraying* the tribe" would you agree to all that?
2 things we need to remember. 1 Reb tevye is a man, just a man. Not a god or a demigod, not a wise angel, or a cunning devil. Just a human, And humans have their limits. 2: I think the big thing that's going on here that made him so unwilling to accept this is that his daughter *ran off and got married* . Reb only heard about this from his wife who heard from a friend, after they were worried sick about what may have happened to her. She knew her father wouldn't approve, so she went behind his back and did it in secret, then came back alone to ask for acceptance after the deed was done and there was nothing he could do. Essentially putting him in a corner. "it's me or your faith. Choose." If she came to her father with the man and spoke to him before getting married things may have been different, he may have accepted the boy. But he wasn't given that option. He wasn't given that decency or respect. A lot of people are pissed at Reb, but they don't really think about the position he was just put in.
I watched the musical version on this in hale center and THE CHILLS I GOT I TELL YOU!! The way the entire theatre erupted in their voices was so powerful, I’m trying to relive it because for once I didn’t record…
Going to be playing Tevye soon in a play, and this is the scene I feel hardest to do, not hard from an acting scene, but hard to be the character, hard to not be sad. Hard to not go over and hug Chava, and say yes, and be her father. So I guess it isn't that hard to play the character after all.
Hope it worked out well. I've wanted to be involved in a production of that since I was 13, but as a member of the orchestra pit. Sadly, no local companies have put on a production yet.
For those of you who are blaming Tevia let me say this: I can see both sides of the argument. Tevia had to get over his prejudices and his way of thinking that ALL Christians are bad. On the other hand, in his heart Tevia felt as badly about this as Chava. What father WANTS to turn his back on his own child. Under the circumstances he felt at the moment he did not have a choice and he reconciled with Chava at the end.
My mother does not accept my homosexuality because of her religious beliefs. I asked my mom if she would attend my boyfriend's hypothetical gay wedding, and she said she would not, as to do so would be tantamount to her admitting that "she had failed". I love my mom, but her religion has a more powerful grip on her than I could ever fathom. I wish her well, but I do not expect her to accept me as I am. Doesn't make it any less heartbreaking. But you get used to it.
I'm sorry to hear it. It's strange how some ultra religious parents seem to think having a gay child means they "failed" - as if being gay was some kind of failure, and as if they could influence their child's sexuality. If you're gay, you're gay - all religious pressure does is force people to hide it and be miserable. I'm glad you're able to be yourself, and I'm sorry she can't accept you as the wonderful gay guy you are. She's losing out.
Children are not extensions of parents. They are people. And parents have to let them make their own choices with all the benefits and drawbacks of it. That's the village traditions fatal flaw. It tries to keep children extensions of their parents until their parents die. It's a system built upon hierarchy and blood instead of trust and merit. And that's the ultimate Aesop of "Fiddler on the Room". Traditions can't last forever. And if they are allowed to linger past their lifespan, traditions will start doing more harm then good. The villages traditions may have been beneficial in the past when society was different. But maybe in the end, wherever the villagers go, they'll find that their better off without those traditions.
I do wish I could have seen Zero Mostel do this scene, because apparently it had a very deep resonance for him - Zero's parents were Orthodox, and like Chava they disowned him for marrying outside the faith.
Emper0rH0rde God or kid, pick one. I would always love my kid but if I had to choose god or my kid.......wel my god and my faith and my tradition. If he brakes the connection to his god and to his faith then he also loses his tradition wich is a part of his identity and faith and what is a man with no identity?
I think they do. It's a sharp disconnect because as modern audiences we expect love to always win, but everybody has some line they can't cross for family. Everybody has a "If I try to bend that far, I'll break." And so the moment is powerful, not because Tevye is suddenly hateful--he's not. But because everyone can understand the sheer impossibility of what the girl is asking.
God has a clever way of doing this. Tevye wanted a learned man for his daughters and he did get them. However, one in a poor tailor, one in an imprisoned revolutionary, and one in a Russian Orthodox.
That awkward moment when my mother became her worst nightmare and repeated the same rejection and estrangment (she felt from her own dad) with her own children; not for any religious reasons either, but simply because she feared losing her matriarchy clout.
I'm a jerk, so when he said "NO CHAVA" and waved his arms at her, I started laughing through my tears because I just thought 'that moment when your dad rejection-dabs you away'
Motel: Even a poor tailor is entitled to some happiness! Tevye: When shall we have the wedding? Perchik: I love her! Tevye: I've decided to give you my blessing and my permission! Chava: I bet you to except us! Tevye: NO!
I really hate to agree with this, but I do. After living through years of Russian antisemitism and terrorism alongside the rest of her family, she marries a member of that nation behind their backs and then returns to Tevye in tears as if she's the victim. Chava doesn't deserve to be judged for finding and marrying the love of her life. But her actions proved to Tevye that she prioritizes her own satisfaction over being mindful of their triggers and respectful of their traumas. And you don't treat survivors that way without paying the price.
Best scene. When I first saw it I had no idea what he was gunna do in this moment. I'm proud of him. Unlike with his other two daughters, there is no other hand.
This scene could of been in a non-religious rendition and it would still be important as the father has boundaries and for him the daughter has overstepped these boundaries in an irrevocable way. It happens today even with family disowning others and it's not about god. It's about people's character and their own sense of morals of acceptable and unacceptable.
Honestly, if my parents told me I needed to break up with my love interest because she was outside my religion, I would just have to get over it. My parents are the last people in the world I’d want to burn bridges with.
I would choose the opposite. Much as I love my parents, there comes a time when a child must live their own life, and make their own decisions. My parents do not get to control my love life.
The interesting thing was that in the book she does marry fyedka and she gets rejected by her father and her community, but at the end of the book when they get evicted out of the town it was revealed that she had left fyedka and begged her father on her knees to take her back. Tevye speaks to Sholom Aleichem and leaves the answer open ended about if he had forgiven her or taken her back or not.
I'm not religious in the slightest. I never have been and probably never will be. Obviously, I am more sympathetic to Chava here than to Tevye, but it is still hard not to sympathize with him at all. To him, the traditions of his faith are the only constant things in his life. They are what keep him stable in an otherwise rocky existance. He has already had to bend for Hodel and Tzeitel, and Chava's request is the one that crosses the line in terms of his religious perspective. Tevye feels that a betrayal of his faith, would be a betrayal of himself, his very essence. Yet, the musical does not portray Tevye's denial of Chava as a good thing. On the contrary, this decision is treated as tragic, and is only resolved when Tevye (discreetly) blesses Chava and Fyedka with "god be with you". Chava and Fyedka love each other as people, their religion is no barrier for them. For Chava, her father has put his faith before his family. She will always come second to him next to his religion, and that crushes her. Tevye puts religion before his daughter, and it breaks him. It makes me think of religious parents who disown their children who come out as gay, and how traumatic of an experience that is for a young man or woman. While Tevye talks of religion being his only real constant and part of his identity..he doesn't seem to realize that he has had the love and support of his family as well. That's the great tragedy and irony: the old traditions have been a constant for Tevye...but as time moves on and changes, they cause him pain and heartbreak.
I think people are missing the point here. He didn't reject her because of religion (at least not entirely). She was marrying a member of the nation that regularly perpetrated extremely bloody pogroms that killed thousands in those villages. The movie doesn't quite depict that, but the pogroms were so frequent and murderous that they caused the wave of immigration to the US at the end of the 19th century and start of the 20th. He feared for her, and couldn't come to terms with her betrayal of her people for one of the enemy. Imagine an American girl marrying a German soldier during WW2.
Why are people calling the father mean. 1 Daughter got married to man she wanted BUT asked for her dad's permission plus married inside the faith. Second daughter too. They both abandoned matchmaking tradition but so what? All the dad needed was that they married to good man inside faith. There comes 3 daughter if she married inside faith he would have same reaction but she married a Russian Christian and in those times women would need to convert she basically abandoned her faith and that why he was hurt and didn't support her. Sure it's not good to reject but he has his point.
Yet another bit of proof that religion is ultimately a negative thing, and divides humanity from itself through prejudice and fear. And the fact that you are defending it only speaks further to your character.
Yes, a terrifying scene of sweet, gentle giant Tevye, loosing his cool for his family and rightly so, it was all against his long and ever known traditions. Doesn't make them any less beautiful or meaningful... but they don't always apply. Poor Chava. She wanted hto be heard and loved and respect and listened to for her own choices as a woman and her father turned on her. It's really hard to pick a side on this one. It hurts my heart.the "NO, CHAVA! NO! There is no other hand!! Kills my heart and bursts me into tears every time.
@@homermontana2392 No. You can't control people forever, especially once they are adults. Chava was 16 (maybe 17 when she elopes), but back in those days, that was practically an adult and old enough to marry. Additionally, how could a father deny his daughter happiness if she's truly in love? I think that's a heartless thing to do.
@@dalirfarzan1694 maybe you can't control people forever but if you tell your own child not to do something and they do it anyways they have every right to disown that immoral child
@@homermontana2392 There's nothing immoral about freedom. Your right to tell your child what to do ends when they become an adult. Adults are free to make their own choices, and Chava has done nothing wrong here. I understand Tevye's struggle, but Chava is an adult, and does not owe him any obedience. He does not own her.
@@Silver_Owl you are immoral if you defy your own parent also if chava didn't think she did anything wrong she wouldn't have ran away she may be an adult but she knows that her father approval is important that why she was begging for it and on a final note he may not own her but he has the right to disown her same way you're saying she's got the right to do whatever she wants he also has a right to not forgive her
I dont get anyone that would choose their religion over their own child. You shouldn't have to accept it that's your daughter. Like I get it tensions in the land was high but it's not like Chava has to choose, she can still do Jewish tradition. But to disown your own daughter is just what. How come the other daughter was allowed to break tradition by dancing and that was okay but chava choosing a husband of a different religion is wrong. Like dude you're already poor do you really want to lose your daughter over something petty.
@@joshuasamber5749 I just don't get it, why choose a guy you can't even see over your child that is physically there. Religion is just what you believe, it shouldn't affect how you treat the people around you especially your own daughter. Hes kind of a shit person for doing this.
There's a lot more to it than religion. Chava married into the community that was known for attacking their village - and by marrying into it, she joined it. It was an extremely dangerous and risky decision. Ultimately it was still her choice, but you can't blame Tevye for disowning her when she turned her back on her family in favor of the community that was trying to kill them. She had a right to do it, and at the same time (without diminishing that at all) he had a right to not be involved with her new life.
A lot of people in the comment section are treating this scene through the lens of religion. Some are even silly enough to call his reaction here anachronistic, because of that. Jewish people are an ethno-religious group. Think of it like a clan or a tribe, not a religion. It's an older concept than religion, an older way of seeing identity. She didn't just convert to a different faith, she left her people. That's something completely different when you don't see the world, anachronistically, through the prism of religion.
I see your point. I'm a homeschooler and I'm dating/in a relationship with my boyfriend from Nebraska and he's a Christian public schooler. I'm part of a Christian homeschool group and most of the homeschoolers I grew up with are married and have families of their own. Just like you said: a clan/tribe. But at the same time, having a relationship with a non-homeschooler, I feel that I'm like, " *betraying* the tribe" you 100% agree with that?
@@YTWarrior100 That is not true lol Not even in the slightest. A loving parent will certainly love all of their children, but we are only human: we have favorites, even if we don't conciously mean to pick favorites.
@@MrMrMrprofessor Yes it is true. Parents never pick one child over the rest. They may say one is the best behaved of their children, but they don't love any children more or less then the rest.
Children are not extensions of parents. They are people. And parents have to let them make their own choices with all the benefits and drawbacks of it. That's the village traditions fatal flaw. It tries to keep children extensions of their parents until their parents die. It's a system built upon hierarchy and blood instead of trust and merit. And that's the ultimate Aesop of "Fiddler on the Room". Traditions can't last forever. And if they are allowed to linger past their lifespan, traditions will start doing more harm then good. The villages traditions may have been beneficial in the past when society was different. But maybe in the end, wherever the villagers go, they'll find that their better off without those traditions.
What's more important Tevye? Your traditions and beliefs or your own family? I don't blame Chava at all for what she did. I admire what Tzeitel, Hodel, and Chava all did for their marriages. Rather then going by the traditions of marrying people they probably never even met before like what happened with Tevye and Golde, and what Tevye tried to do with Tzeitel marrying Lazar Wolf, their marriages actually came from their hearts and married who they loved. That's how it should always be, like it is now.
I think you missed the point. Tevye set aside tradition when allowing Tzeitel and Hodel to marry for love. His faith isn't a "tradition" that he can just set aside. It's an intrinsic part of who he is so he can't just say "oh well, that's fine". That was a line that he told her she couldn't cross and she chose to anyway. Him rejecting her wasn't vindictiveness - it was him valuing his faith over everything else. It was obviously a horrifying choice for him to make but losing his daughter would be like having his arm torn off. Compromising on his faith would be like having his heart ripped out. Both terrible and painful but only one raises to the level of death. I understand when people who don't have a religious faith (or a weak one) don't get this. By the current world's (secular humanist) standards, his decision is unacceptable.
Traditions and beliefs... the movie shows these are bound up with Tevye's whole way of life. His traditions shape his daily routines, his friends, his work, his family. They need to, because they're all he has--the Russians take everything else. Tevye's traditions are his solid rock, the one way he can make sense of a life where horsemen will charge through your daughter's wedding and destroy your homes. And his daughter deserts all that. For love, yes, but she rejects her father, and sides (in his mind) with those who persecute him. How do you give up your life, your friends, your very way of understanding the world? You don't. And don't kid yourself. Everyone has this limit, where even the bonds of family aren't enough.
Don't know if you did your show already but feel like you were actually in that type of situation. What would you do if the family you know and love disowned you and could never see you again just because you married the person you love?
I have one week to learn how to act like her for a drama assignment. During all of Monday we have to go to school and act like our character, props and all. And answer questions like they would, and so on. I haven't ever even seen the musical.
This Scene is too much to bear if anyone has any kind love in heart at all. I'm from a Jewish Family Originally but we all do our own thing and while my Dad was never at all Religious my Mum came from a kind of Religious family but my Grandparents completely accepted her when she married Dad and these days we all do our own thing in my family even with one of my Sisters married to a man who's virtually a Rabbi and the other of them actually married out to a man with no Religion at all. In the Words of Theresa May who's one my 2 my all time Heroes this is why we should all remember that in England we should be best happy and feel free to practice our own Religion. I even have my own Religion that I made up for just me so her Words truly inspire me here. No matter what your parents think of you or anyone else NEVER feel bad about believing in your Faith. Well done Chava for believing in what you want to believe. If your Dad had really been a good man he'd have accepted you and your Husband and told those who were against his Religion where to get off so at the end of the day he's just as Prejudice as they are for you were the one trying to show there's absolutely NO place for Religious Prejudice in this World. If I were you I'd have walked out on him just like he walked out on you 1st and not only that but told him where to get off too. Follow your Dreams Chava and remember that no matter what in the words of the saying "Love will forever win over evil."
I completely understand Tevye in this scene. In order to be married in the Russian Orthodox Church, Chava would've had to have been baptized. She had turned her back on her people and mishpocha first. What else was Tevye to do?
The sad thing is nowadays, some people are disowning family because of FUCKING POLITICS! I pray God that you are not among them - or that if you are, you reconcile. Political differences are not worth it.
This wasn't Jew / non-Jew. This was his daughter marrying a Christian. His second daughter married an atheist Bolshevik and he eventually accepted that.
Well, in the end the two of them fled the country because “We cannot stay with people who can do such things to others!” I guess that could mean they left the Russian church!
I don't think it would have made a difference - she's marrying outside the faith, and Tevye just couldn't accept that. He would likely have refused to even listen to Fyedka.
I love this scene but it hurts. I think Tevye was losing too much too quickly. Her children would still be Jewish ,the blood passes through the mother to the child, she was still Jewish.
That's not the point, his tradition tells him that those who marry outside of the faith are damned and are to be ostracized from the community. The whole thing with this show is the balance between tradition and social innovation. The fiddler is the tradition, the daughters' marriages are the innovations. You can most obviously see this in the Chava sequence, at the end, when she is reaching for Fyedka and for the fiddler but ultimately runs away from the traditions. It is too much for Tevye to handle to lose all of his traditions at once.
It depends on how deep your religious conviction is. For me, having to disown my child would be like ripping my arm off. Turning my back on my faith would be like ripping my heart out. Both options are horrifying but only one would feel like death. Terrible decision to have to make.
The daughter knew her father wouldn't accept this, so she went behind his back and did it in secret. Then, after all was said a d done and she got her way, she came back and put Reb in an impossible position. She forced him to choose "your religion or your daughter. " There are consequences to everything we do. But for some reason we feel that she is completely immune to these consequences. Why? Because she's his daughter, and fathers are supposed to back their daughters 100%, all the time, no matter what, end of discussion. Even if you have to give up everything you believe in, everything you hold dear, you back her up. If she goes behind your back and does something in secret, you change your world view and give her what she wants.
Sounds like me and my friend who is a Rabbi I am but a ghost to him. I am the ghost of Saul lol who is a Christian who had lots of Jewish friends wanting to study at the synagogue and Yeshiva. Best part of Tevye is his voice who sounds just like my friend who is a Rabbi. He still won’t sing for me if I were a rich man.
I'm sorry but Chava deserved what she got. She completely disrespected Shem'tov'ye and flounced Moch-ta-*va* (Ba-shem-rah!) Tevye did what he had to in order to remain graceful and Ba-Ha-Sha-RemSha-Blahshablahbhalah. Any self-respectink father would do the same.
Or also a thought for you. I'm dating and in a relationship with my boyfriend (Tim is his name btw) and he's a Christian public schooler whereas myself, I'm a homeschooler. I come from a Christian homeschool community and most all the homeschoolers I knew throughout my life are married and have families of their own. But with my relationship with a non-homeschooler, you agree that I'm just like being Chava in this scenario?
I understand that's what modern society says and I truly get it. But that would be acceptable primarily to those without a strong religious faith. Jesus said "“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." The point being that our faith in Christ needs to be prioritized over everything else. Tevye wasn't a Christian character but, even though he loved all his daughters dearly, his faith is clearly the most important thing to him. Again, I understand your sentiment and I'm sure lots of people would agree - it just doesn't (or shouldn't) resonate with people with deep religious conviction.
Then I'm glad I don't have a strong religious faith. If religion teaches anything, it should teach people to become better human beings, not worse ones. Having your own beliefs is one thing, but rejecting your own child, simply because her religious beliefs no longer line up with yours - that's wrong. That's cruel. And if you find yourself being cruel in the name of religion, then either you've misunderstood it, or it's a pretty bad religion.
@@Silver_Owl I like your comment. It makes me laugh at how angry people will be when they find out that you have the courage to say that somebody's religion is wrong.
So Tevye is upset because Chava married a non-Jewish guy? It's pretty sad the way she was screaming and pleading with him to accept her relationship and he just turned his back on her.
![Fyedka and Chava [Fiddler on the Roof]](/img/n.gif)
One of the most terrifying scenes in film... I remember the tears simply erupted when he screamed, "No Chava, no..." It was such a brutal shock because I was sure he'd accept her like he did Tzeitel and Hodel... I wonder if even the director knew how effective that scene was going to be... "Fiddler on the Roof" - one of mankind's greatest creations!
no what do you mean
there is some mistake
MrsLukeArnold I meant it was a very shocking reaction from Tevye, and I was simply not prepared for that... I thought he'd accept Chava being the warm, fuzzy person he typically is. It was deeply unsettling for me when he didn't. And the scene was very effective that way: he screams, "No Chava, no..." to her; the "Tradition" music rushes in to reinforce his reaction; then Chava screams desperately back for her Papa to accept her... Just writing about it gives me the shivers! I was and continue to be deeply affected by this movie... Hope this clarifies :)
Joy George i just wasted 24 minutes watching this
MrsLukeArnold Oh, that's sad... I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the film, but I hope you'll eventually find a way to watch all three hours of it. I can't really say life-affirming - because it ends so differently from how it starts - but it is certainly about life. And faith. And, of course, Tradition :) Come to think of it, they're all hand-in-hand - which, of course, is the whole point of the movie ;-) God bless!
Joy George i did actually
I cried for both of them. They were both in agony. Topol was an unparalleled Tevye, an this scene tears the heart out as both of theirs were torn. It is also a masterful piece of writing, letting the audience think he will accept her as he did the other girls. But this is different. In this, he must choose between his daughter, his favorite daughter, and his God who, he deeply believes, has forbidden her marriage to a gentile and said that a Jew who marries a gentile must be considered to have died and shunned by both family and community. He is probably also blaming himself because his leniency with the other girls perhaps allowed Chava to think she might have both worlds. He warns her when she approaches him about it earlier....but “he eventually caved to my sisters.” She is scared but hopeful.....as is the audience....so it is a terrible, dramatic shock when he says, emphatically, “NO! There IS NO other hand!” Not for this. It is completely heart rending, for both of them.
Well put. This scene dramatically shifts the theme from comedy to tragedy
Chava children gonna be 100 percent galaha jews either way.
Grew up with this realization. My dad who is actually 1/2 Jewish and half Protestant Northern Irish, married my mother Roman Catholic Republic of Ireland and we lived in our bubble, f-ing the begrudgers. Best parents ever, 60 years together and respect for both Judeo and Christian teachings. Acceptance, morality, ethics and love. That is spirituality.
The way the tradition music comes back as a now overwhelming and overpowering tone is too perfect to put into words
It's impossible for me to condemn or condone Tevye here because he's disowning his daughter over a conflict in spirituality, on the other hand the Russian military was driving his people off of their land and destroying the culture he devoted his life to. All that would be left would be his traditions, which is the point of the story. The soldier she married being a Christian is only half the problem. This scene is heart breaking. The internal and external conflict, the strength and optimism they show amidst the constant destruction of their way of life is inspiring. Even as they leave at the end they talk cheerfully of going to America. As they pack up everything they own into carts and start pushing it out in order to unpack and rebuild in a new world.
Fiddler on the Roof is one of the greatest stories ever told. And this is one of the greatest movies ever made.
+DudeWithFood Agree...but Fyedka is not a soldier. He's just a simple farmer, or even just a farm hand or field worker.
+Lemon Drops The point is that he's a gentile vodka swiller.
+DudeWithFood The "point of the story" is that 'he' has NO sons. 'Man' enters 'woman' . . . and 'son' is born. ALL of Tevyev's life is dream. And all the "dream" includes these various mirrors of 'his' love . . . the daughters AND Golda. And now, even they, are leaving him alone on this Earthly plain. Come to terms with that, Hercules. Dance to that music, Prometheus.
+jonainwood Absolutely
+DudeWithFood its a great, great movie. i totally am with tevye here- if one abandons one's faith, and one's faith informs one's very existence, what choice is there???? tevye is in for the long term- his soul's fate with god. a relationship with one's daughter cant compete. tragic though. god forbid i be in that position.
Powerful. One of the most moving scenes in any film. The beauty about this is that they both have solid arguments.
Fuck solid arguments. They have strong feelings, powerful motives. Take that CZcams-atheist-style-vocabulary somewhere else.
+preacher of nothing Why should I take my uh, "CZcams-atheist-style-vocabulary" somewhere else when it baits amusing commentary such as yours?
Lemon Drops well played ! ahah
For me this is the most tragic scene in cinematography. With no special effects, noone dying, noone bleeding, no cliches and no cheap emotional tricks.
Yes. Just watched it for the first time in a couple of years but it still hits me like it did when I originally saw it over 35 years ago. That look in his eyes is so sad and haunting, it makes me wonder what memory Topol used to give such a brilliant performance.
In the original story "Tevye and his Daughters" Chava leaves her Russian Orthodox husband when she learns that the Jews are being expelled. She attempts to return to her family and share their exile. The author doesn't say whether or not Tevye forgives her and takes her back. He instead asks the reader to decide what they would do if they were in Tevye's place.
Emanresuadeen
I bet Fyedka shot himself.
The musical alters this ending because it is aimed at both a Jewish and a Christian audience. He ultimately forgives her in the musical version.
Add this to "I didn't know there was a book" list.
colliric there is a nod. As I recall. Leaving open that he was cool with it. But...
@@colliric forgiving her for marrying Russian?
"Without our traditions our lives would be as shaky as... as a fiddler on the roof"
Tzeitel and Motel broke the tradition of obeying the matchmaker, but still asked Tevye for permission and was a completely acceptable Jewish marriage. Tevye could accept that.
Hodel and Perchik broke the tradition of asking Tevye for permission to marry, but Perchik was still Jewish and they asked for his blessing. Tevye could accept that.
Chava and Fedya eloped and Chava abandoned the Jewish faith. That was too much for Tevye.
Makes complete sense to me. The first two couplings broke minor traditions, which can still be reconciled to a traditional Jewish world view, but Chava not only broke the traditions of adhering to a matchmaker and asking her father for permission, but she also became an apostate. For a traditional early twentieth century Russian Jewish man to accept his daughter becoming an apostate would have been unrealistic. Doesn't make it any less of a harrowing scene though, and anyone who still thinks like Tevye does here nowadays is hopelessly anachronistic IMO.
thanks for writing this! now it all makes more sense!
So sad though because if they did immigrate to America and she stayed she may have become a widow during the First World War or starved during the Revolution. I can see though Tevyes decision though. I think even today if they convert to the Christian faith or marry outside of they're shunned. It's a realistic but sad ending.
Austerlitz Idk being his daughter can counterbalance that.
Austerlitz race? lol.
Austerlitz religion doesn't count as a race? There are genotypes, but not races.
Ultimately he does forgive her. People often forget this fact, but in the final scene as they are about to leave, he does forgive her. He says God Bless you and let's Golde give her the address to keep in contact. In the end he does accept it.
This is the reason Fiddler On The Roof is controversial in some parts of the Jewish community.
I heard Fiddler on the Roof is bull.
My daughter is getting married outside the Jewish faith and this scene gets me to the core. I would never abandon my daughter but I cannot ever give her my blessing so to speak as things like intermarriage and not eating pork have been engrained in my head all my life. It's something I've slowly come to peace with for the sake of family but I'll never feel happy or comfortable about it. It is what it is but it's not worth never speaking to my daughter again.
@@semowery kinda get that too. One day id want to convert, i was raised christian but now convert to another denomination that the one i grew up with would disagree like theologically speaking. And one day marry too. From a daughter's view, i love my father so much to where i can give my life to him easy no question asked . But I also love my faith even more. So its hard , but nothing like to that level of changing a completely different religion.
I don’t think that it’s forgiveness. But it’s a step in that direction.
@@MrJuvefrankwhy did whoever say that say that
The reprise of Tradition here is chilling. Brilliant orchestration from John Williams himself.
When I was little, I hated Tevye for what he did but as I’m older, I under now. Yes it’s cruel to disown your own child. Chava and Fiedca couldn’t help that they fell in love. But it’s not that simple.
Not only did Chava marry outside the faith, she married one of the people who were oppressing, driving out and killing people like her, like her family. They destroyed her sister’s wedding and half the town as part of ‘a demonstration’ not so long ago.
What kind of choices did Tevye really have?
Finally a person who gets it
Meant to say understand.
He did the right thing
that is exactly what I think about this whole situation.
what she did goes against the grain!
I think the part that gets me most is when Chava cries papa. It's so agonizing.
Incredibly moving scene from the musical. I wish this video included the song beforehand to set the mood, but the emotion is still there.
Tevye is forced to choose between two things he loves: God, or his daughter. An unimaginably painful decision, faith over family, but in doing so, he stays strong in his relationship with God and remains true to himself and his values.
Well, he did warn her.
+americandook But he caved in at the end, which I didn't like.
@@radconserv68 by what, not ostracizing his daughter forever. His rejection and disapproval were clear, but he would retain ties and exchange letters. She didnt become a monster or something for f*cksake.
PatchesRips if you let your emotions rule who you love that it “can’t be controlled” than I think such a person has watched one too many Disney programs.
It really gets me how, when she first calls for him, he looks up at her with a happy and almost hopeful expression- only to remember a second later and his face falls.
I love this film the music is so bitter sweet pure art
Topol should have won the Oscar for this!
I like to think Chava and Teyve reconciled in the end, thanks to Teyve breaking a bit and saying "God be with you" to which her Tzeitel knew meant she had permission to convey to Chava (and Chava knew Teyve was the one who said it by the way Tzeitel reacted and the way her mom became overjoyed) and then the mom taking that small break and telling Chava where she can find them. Teyve wasn't really mad at that and feigned exaggerated annoyance. That small thing meant that the path to reconciliation was possible. I just hope Chava and her husband and their family made it out ok considering what was going to happen to the Russians and Jews during this time period and decades afterwards.
I think it was more that the scares had some time to fade.
No you got that wrong its Ukrainian and Jewish not Russian and his proper name is Fedko .
I don’t think it was forgiveness. I think it was reluctant acknowledgment that he still loved her. But it’s a step in that direction, if a small one.
When I was a kid and first saw this movie with my family I did not understand why Tevia turned his back on Chava. I remember I asked my grandmother about it.
My grandmother explained to me that Chava had married a Christian man. Given the fact that Chava was Jewish and the Christians were treating the Jews so badly, from Tevia's perspective what Chava had done was completely unacceptable.
Both hearts are breaking, but cannot find common ground. Fortunately, as we see later, they come together in an understated but important way.
No they don't. They never reconcile.
they do. it is clear when he says "And God be with you" that while he is not turning against his faith and will never accept Chava's marriage to Fyedka, that he is showing that he still loves her and that over time wounds may heal. That is very clear - why else would that line be included? they could've easily shown him ignoring her once more, solidifying the break, but they chose not to. Choices like that are intentional, don't let your bias make you blind.
oldmoviemusic He *mumbles* "and God be with you" almost under his breath. Chava didn't hear him, and she left, still anguished. All indication is that they never saw each other again, and with that comes the implication that Chava spent the rest of her life believing her father hated her.
I don't think we watched the same movie... Because Tevye says "and G-d be with you," which Tzeitl repeats louder for her sister. After that Chava is NOTICEABLY happier and they give the indication that they will eventually go to America from Poland...
@@cutemarge6512*God
If there's a heaven then Tevye deserves to be there.
He asks God for a small fortune, gets the chance to have it at the expense of his daughters, and chooses to be their wellbeing over his own wealth.
Madlad.
Rejection still better than honor killing.
Is it really? Maybe physically it's better, because it involves no bodily harm. Emotionally? He may just as well have ran her through with a red hot iron. The worst part is he never reconciles with her. FUCK him. This scene made me so angry.
At the end of the movie he says "And may God be with you," which is taken by all involved to be acceptance.
Dale Greer But she didn't hear him, and all indication is given that they never saw each other again.
Nothing is a hell of a last thing to ever say to your daughter face to face. Especially when you refuse to look her in the eye, or even acknowledge her existence.
Honor killing is worse and not biblical. Shunning is temporary or should. Marriage is forever whether mixed spiritually or not. That is truth.
I mean how can someone say honor killing it better? you're making the person die I'd rather be shunned then killed for sure even if it's hard. I would at least have future..
One of the most heartbreaking scenes in movies still to this day.
I've seen a lot of people say that Tevye should have been more tolerant, choose his daughter over tradition. What they don't understand is that for a religion without a homeland or central leadership tradition is what holds everything together. Some things can be "bent", but as Tevye said if he tries to bend far enough to allow mixed marriages the tradition holding them together will break. Assimilation was on the rise during this period, only by marrying other Jews could the tradition stay strong enough to be passed on to the next generation. Jews like Chava who married non-Jews almost always left Judaism behind.
No other scene in any movie has ever affected me so traumatically because I was so utterly convinced that a man who I could identify with in so many ways and on so many levels could do something like this in spite of his own daughters heart rending screams.
+John Jones Loving someone is doing what is best for them, not giving in to what is wrong.
+radconserv68 Trying to tear anyone away from another whom they love more than anyone in the world and who loves them more than anyone else in world is NEVER the best thing for them . It is the WORST thing . It is evil. It robs them of the chance to love and be loved. If the pure love of a boy for a girl and a girl for a boy - which is the engine of The Creators zeal for the replenishment of the earth - conflicts with a 'law' anywhere then that law is wrong and must be amended or discarded. The Law was made for Man . Man was not made for the Law. Those two sentences are at the heart of and are the basis for the Law. If you have a problem with that then you do not understand The Law. So don't be so precious about holding forth about something you do not understand.
John Jones Well, look at Tevye's point of view: all his life, the Russian Christians have persecuted him, his family, and his people; at the end of the film, they will drive Tevye and his family out of their homes completely. In his mind, Chava has allied herself with a force that seeks to destroy his home and way of life--she has, in the most fundamental way, rejected her family. What do you believe in most strongly, and how would you react if someone you love dearly seemingly allied with the faction most dedicated to opposing that belief?
@@JohnJones-ct9pr very milquetoast theology to place human affection as the supreme morality.
A) how do you know their love is so wonderful? They’re young.
B) would you give the same advice to a parent forbidding their child to date a cousin or other relative? To an Orthodox Jew it might feel about as egregious as that.
C) if you think love for a person is more important than love for God/the creator then you don’t very well understand the God of Judeo-Christian tradition. You’re free to disagree with those faith traditions of course, but it sounded like you’re speaking on their behalf.
@@darkisatari-
Well said.
Human Love is not the epitome of Love.
Divine Love is.
It’s heartbreaking. It reminds me of a cousin of mine who rejected his brother for marrying outside the faith. They didn’t talk for years until his brother finally relented and accepted it.
I'm in a relationship with my boyfriend, Tim and he's a public schooler. Me, I'm a homeschooler and I come from and part of a homeschool group/community. But sometimes I feel that I'm *betraying* my community because of my relationship with a non-homeschooler. Would you agree?
@@Elysia63 No I don’t agree.
@@lisanidog8178 Thanks. Glad to hear that. 🙂
@@Elysia63 you’re welcome.
Heart-breaking scene but hardly surprising. They are Orthodox Jews and are not allowed to marry outside their faith. That means Chava converted to Orthodox Christianity, giving up Judaism. Perhaps if Russia was kind to Jews and Tevye and his family leaved in peace and happiness among the Christian villagers, he could have accepted it. But she didn't just break the laws of his faith, she married a Christian man at a time where Jews in Russia were being horribly abused and even slaughtered by the Christian Russians. I feel for both Tevye and Chava. She's a grown woman who can do as she pleases but she has to face the consequences for her actions. Very difficult decision for both of them and in the books it all works out very differently. Chava did what she had to for love but in the books she does end up choosing her people and her family over her husband.
He was right! You dont break a link of thousands of years your ancester died for never giving it up! Pogroms inquisitions crusades even Nazis after burning kids alive went to celebrate christmas! The Vatican...
evil beyond, looked the other way and helped nazis to escape!
I kinda have this feel of all you have said described. Cuz see, I'm in a relationship and dating with my boyfriend, Tim and he's a public schooler whereas for me, I'm a homeschooler. I come from a homeschool community and in my group, I know all of the people I knew throughout my life are married and have families of their own. Basically, I perfectly describe it as a tribe or a clan since all the people have known each other since their early childhoods into adulthoods.
But since I'm in a relationship with a non-homeschooler, I feel that I'm " *betraying* the tribe" would you agree to all that?
@@Elysia63 THen 30 years later Christians in Russia were slaughtered by Jews. 30,000,000 of them, and all forgotten because of the narrative.
2 things we need to remember.
1 Reb tevye is a man, just a man. Not a god or a demigod, not a wise angel, or a cunning devil. Just a human, And humans have their limits.
2: I think the big thing that's going on here that made him so unwilling to accept this is that his daughter *ran off and got married* .
Reb only heard about this from his wife who heard from a friend, after they were worried sick about what may have happened to her.
She knew her father wouldn't approve, so she went behind his back and did it in secret, then came back alone to ask for acceptance after the deed was done and there was nothing he could do. Essentially putting him in a corner. "it's me or your faith. Choose."
If she came to her father with the man and spoke to him before getting married things may have been different, he may have accepted the boy. But he wasn't given that option. He wasn't given that decency or respect.
A lot of people are pissed at Reb, but they don't really think about the position he was just put in.
THE SCENE WHERE CHAVA ENDS UP SOBBING WAS OMITTED.
I watched the musical version on this in hale center and THE CHILLS I GOT I TELL YOU!! The way the entire theatre erupted in their voices was so powerful, I’m trying to relive it because for once I didn’t record…
There is no other hand... chilling
Going to be playing Tevye soon in a play, and this is the scene I feel hardest to do, not hard from an acting scene, but hard to be the character, hard to not be sad. Hard to not go over and hug Chava, and say yes, and be her father.
So I guess it isn't that hard to play the character after all.
Hope it worked out well. I've wanted to be involved in a production of that since I was 13, but as a member of the orchestra pit. Sadly, no local companies have put on a production yet.
For those of you who are blaming Tevia let me say this:
I can see both sides of the argument. Tevia had to get over his prejudices and his way of thinking that ALL Christians are bad.
On the other hand, in his heart Tevia felt as badly about this as Chava. What father WANTS to turn his back on his own child.
Under the circumstances he felt at the moment he did not have a choice and he reconciled with Chava at the end.
My theatre group is considering doing Fiddler this year, I can't be in it since I graduated, but I'm going to assist the director
My mother does not accept my homosexuality because of her religious beliefs.
I asked my mom if she would attend my boyfriend's hypothetical gay wedding, and she said she would not, as to do so would be tantamount to her admitting that "she had failed".
I love my mom, but her religion has a more powerful grip on her than I could ever fathom.
I wish her well, but I do not expect her to accept me as I am.
Doesn't make it any less heartbreaking.
But you get used to it.
I'm sorry to hear it. It's strange how some ultra religious parents seem to think having a gay child means they "failed" - as if being gay was some kind of failure, and as if they could influence their child's sexuality. If you're gay, you're gay - all religious pressure does is force people to hide it and be miserable. I'm glad you're able to be yourself, and I'm sorry she can't accept you as the wonderful gay guy you are. She's losing out.
This is the opposite for me. I left my orthodox Christian religion to be with the Jewish man I love
Brutal scene. You can see the hurt on both of their faces. Luckily he comes around at the end
All the people upset with Tevye get their morality from Disney where love is the ultimate good.
Children are not extensions of parents. They are people. And parents have to let them make their own choices with all the benefits and drawbacks of it. That's the village traditions fatal flaw. It tries to keep children extensions of their parents until their parents die. It's a system built upon hierarchy and blood instead of trust and merit. And that's the ultimate Aesop of "Fiddler on the Room". Traditions can't last forever. And if they are allowed to linger past their lifespan, traditions will start doing more harm then good.
The villages traditions may have been beneficial in the past when society was different. But maybe in the end, wherever the villagers go, they'll find that their better off without those traditions.
this was such a sad scene/ Loved the girl who played Chava
I do wish I could have seen Zero Mostel do this scene, because apparently it had a very deep resonance for him - Zero's parents were Orthodox, and like Chava they disowned him for marrying outside the faith.
Really? I didn't know that.
That is just awful. What horrible parents.
Emper0rH0rde God or kid, pick one. I would always love my kid but if I had to choose god or my kid.......wel my god and my faith and my tradition. If he brakes the connection to his god and to his faith then he also loses his tradition wich is a part of his identity and faith and what is a man with no identity?
1998fife 24 "God or kid." What a weak dichotomy.
Emper0rH0rde OMFG I saw you right another comment on a Fiddler video
Just found I'm gonna be chava in this year's musical!
This part broke my heart. It's so sad. We are all G-d's children, but religion is important as to how you live your life.
This definitely feels like coming out to a religious parent.
it gets better. i promise.
But it's literally the opposite, it might feel like your kids are coming out while you are religious.
There is no other hand! Those that didn't grow up with tevye's tradition will never understand it.
I think they do. It's a sharp disconnect because as modern audiences we expect love to always win, but everybody has some line they can't cross for family. Everybody has a "If I try to bend that far, I'll break." And so the moment is powerful, not because Tevye is suddenly hateful--he's not. But because everyone can understand the sheer impossibility of what the girl is asking.
Tovia is right
God has a clever way of doing this. Tevye wanted a learned man for his daughters and he did get them. However, one in a poor tailor, one in an imprisoned revolutionary, and one in a Russian Orthodox.
...And here I thought Tevye was a Fucking Cinnamon Roll™.
That awkward moment when my mother became her worst nightmare and repeated the same rejection and estrangment (she felt from her own dad) with her own children; not for any religious reasons either, but simply because she feared losing her matriarchy clout.
I'm a jerk, so when he said "NO CHAVA" and waved his arms at her, I started laughing through my tears because I just thought 'that moment when your dad rejection-dabs you away'
This movie made me so angry, I could spit, but this is a damn funny comment.
Motel: Even a poor tailor is entitled to some happiness!
Tevye: When shall we have the wedding?
Perchik: I love her!
Tevye: I've decided to give you my blessing and my permission!
Chava: I bet you to except us!
Tevye: NO!
She really brought it upon herself.
I really hate to agree with this, but I do.
After living through years of Russian antisemitism and terrorism alongside the rest of her family, she marries a member of that nation behind their backs and then returns to Tevye in tears as if she's the victim.
Chava doesn't deserve to be judged for finding and marrying the love of her life. But her actions proved to Tevye that she prioritizes her own satisfaction over being mindful of their triggers and respectful of their traumas. And you don't treat survivors that way without paying the price.
@@g.Raider Children aren't extensions of their parents. They can't stay in shadows forever.
Best scene. When I first saw it I had no idea what he was gunna do in this moment. I'm proud of him. Unlike with his other two daughters, there is no other hand.
Putting religion before your family is wrong
Wrong. Putting mortals before God is wrong.
RzBaxter god doesn't exist.
And you have proof of this I suppose. You atheists are so big on proof, evidence and yet you have none. Pitiful...
This scene could of been in a non-religious rendition and it would still be important as the father has boundaries and for him the daughter has overstepped these boundaries in an irrevocable way.
It happens today even with family disowning others and it's not about god. It's about people's character and their own sense of morals of acceptable and unacceptable.
Honestly, if my parents told me I needed to break up with my love interest because she was outside my religion, I would just have to get over it. My parents are the last people in the world I’d want to burn bridges with.
I would choose the opposite. Much as I love my parents, there comes a time when a child must live their own life, and make their own decisions. My parents do not get to control my love life.
The interesting thing was that in the book she does marry fyedka and she gets rejected by her father and her community, but at the end of the book when they get evicted out of the town it was revealed that she had left fyedka and begged her father on her knees to take her back. Tevye speaks to Sholom Aleichem and leaves the answer open ended about if he had forgiven her or taken her back or not.
I'm not religious in the slightest. I never have been and probably never will be. Obviously, I am more sympathetic to Chava here than to Tevye, but it is still hard not to sympathize with him at all. To him, the traditions of his faith are the only constant things in his life. They are what keep him stable in an otherwise rocky existance. He has already had to bend for Hodel and Tzeitel, and Chava's request is the one that crosses the line in terms of his religious perspective. Tevye feels that a betrayal of his faith, would be a betrayal of himself, his very essence.
Yet, the musical does not portray Tevye's denial of Chava as a good thing. On the contrary, this decision is treated as tragic, and is only resolved when Tevye (discreetly) blesses Chava and Fyedka with "god be with you". Chava and Fyedka love each other as people, their religion is no barrier for them. For Chava, her father has put his faith before his family. She will always come second to him next to his religion, and that crushes her. Tevye puts religion before his daughter, and it breaks him. It makes me think of religious parents who disown their children who come out as gay, and how traumatic of an experience that is for a young man or woman. While Tevye talks of religion being his only real constant and part of his identity..he doesn't seem to realize that he has had the love and support of his family as well. That's the great tragedy and irony: the old traditions have been a constant for Tevye...but as time moves on and changes, they cause him pain and heartbreak.
I think people are missing the point here. He didn't reject her because of religion (at least not entirely). She was marrying a member of the nation that regularly perpetrated extremely bloody pogroms that killed thousands in those villages. The movie doesn't quite depict that, but the pogroms were so frequent and murderous that they caused the wave of immigration to the US at the end of the 19th century and start of the 20th. He feared for her, and couldn't come to terms with her betrayal of her people for one of the enemy. Imagine an American girl marrying a German soldier during WW2.
I could have sworn remembering that Tevye tore a part of his garments to show that Chava was dead to him. Hmmm
Mandela effect
@@chaoticjoy3401 What an imbecilic comment. You know the old saying... "If you've nothing intelligent to say...."
There are times, and Oh! How tragic, but profound, they are - when one's own child crosses a line that is too wide.
Why are people calling the father mean.
1 Daughter got married to man she wanted BUT asked for her dad's permission plus married inside the faith.
Second daughter too. They both abandoned matchmaking tradition but so what? All the dad needed was that they married to good man inside faith.
There comes 3 daughter if she married inside faith he would have same reaction but she married a Russian Christian and in those times women would need to convert she basically abandoned her faith and that why he was hurt and didn't support her.
Sure it's not good to reject but he has his point.
Yet another bit of proof that religion is ultimately a negative thing, and divides humanity from itself through prejudice and fear. And the fact that you are defending it only speaks further to your character.
@@JimmySteller You do realize atheists are also religious right?
Yes, a terrifying scene of sweet, gentle giant Tevye, loosing his cool for his family and rightly so, it was all against his long and ever known traditions.
Doesn't make them any less beautiful or meaningful... but they don't always apply. Poor Chava. She wanted hto be heard and loved and respect and listened to for her own choices as a woman and her father turned on her. It's really hard to pick a side on this one. It hurts my heart.the "NO, CHAVA! NO! There is no other hand!! Kills my heart and bursts me into tears every time.
This is like coming out to conservative Christian parents. So very sad
I'm keeping my mouth shut for this scene.
When your 3 year old doesn’t want to take a nap
there is no other hand.
o n t h e o t h e r h a n d
But Papa!
no chava!!!!
Es gibt keine andere Hand
Sad, but based af.
It's so stupid and blind to turn one's back on their own flesh and blood due to what some imaginary person in the sky supposedly said.
you don't think it's immoral that your own flesh and blood disobeys you and runs away and marries someone who you told them to stay away from
@@homermontana2392
No. You can't control people forever, especially once they are adults. Chava was 16 (maybe 17 when she elopes), but back in those days, that was practically an adult and old enough to marry.
Additionally, how could a father deny his daughter happiness if she's truly in love? I think that's a heartless thing to do.
@@dalirfarzan1694 maybe you can't control people forever but if you tell your own child not to do something and they do it anyways they have every right to disown that immoral child
@@homermontana2392 There's nothing immoral about freedom. Your right to tell your child what to do ends when they become an adult. Adults are free to make their own choices, and Chava has done nothing wrong here. I understand Tevye's struggle, but Chava is an adult, and does not owe him any obedience. He does not own her.
@@Silver_Owl you are immoral if you defy your own parent also if chava didn't think she did anything wrong she wouldn't have ran away she may be an adult but she knows that her father approval is important that why she was begging for it and on a final note he may not own her but he has the right to disown her same way you're saying she's got the right to do whatever she wants he also has a right to not forgive her
Great scene but you cut off before the music ends! The greatest power is the final moments of Chava sobbing alone.
I dont get anyone that would choose their religion over their own child. You shouldn't have to accept it that's your daughter. Like I get it tensions in the land was high but it's not like Chava has to choose, she can still do Jewish tradition. But to disown your own daughter is just what. How come the other daughter was allowed to break tradition by dancing and that was okay but chava choosing a husband of a different religion is wrong. Like dude you're already poor do you really want to lose your daughter over something petty.
I don't see how you can't see the difference between modernizing the dancing at a wedding and marrying outside the faith.
@@joshuasamber5749 I just don't get it, why choose a guy you can't even see over your child that is physically there. Religion is just what you believe, it shouldn't affect how you treat the people around you especially your own daughter. Hes kind of a shit person for doing this.
There's a lot more to it than religion. Chava married into the community that was known for attacking their village - and by marrying into it, she joined it. It was an extremely dangerous and risky decision. Ultimately it was still her choice, but you can't blame Tevye for disowning her when she turned her back on her family in favor of the community that was trying to kill them. She had a right to do it, and at the same time (without diminishing that at all) he had a right to not be involved with her new life.
Great film, songs and music
As a child of a Jewish and orthodox parent I get it
Is it easier now than 130 years ago?
Heart wrenching.
A lot of people in the comment section are treating this scene through the lens of religion. Some are even silly enough to call his reaction here anachronistic, because of that.
Jewish people are an ethno-religious group. Think of it like a clan or a tribe, not a religion. It's an older concept than religion, an older way of seeing identity.
She didn't just convert to a different faith, she left her people.
That's something completely different when you don't see the world, anachronistically, through the prism of religion.
I see your point. I'm a homeschooler and I'm dating/in a relationship with my boyfriend from Nebraska and he's a Christian public schooler. I'm part of a Christian homeschool group and most of the homeschoolers I grew up with are married and have families of their own. Just like you said: a clan/tribe.
But at the same time, having a relationship with a non-homeschooler, I feel that I'm like, " *betraying* the tribe" you 100% agree with that?
@@Elysia63 No, I mean an actual clan.
Like the native Americans'.
@@YM25148 So I'm fine then? I'm not like/being Chava at the moment?
@@Elysia63 I honestly don't see it as my place to say in your case.
@@YM25148 Okay fair enough 👌
The Moment for me is the planting of his first foot to trudge away, then the second foot, then the cart and it all gains momentum, away from Chava
It was the hardest because he loved her the most.
No parent loves one child more then the others. Parents love all their children equally.
@@YTWarrior100 That is not true lol Not even in the slightest. A loving parent will certainly love all of their children, but we are only human: we have favorites, even if we don't conciously mean to pick favorites.
@@MrMrMrprofessor Yes it is true. Parents never pick one child over the rest. They may say one is the best behaved of their children, but they don't love any children more or less then the rest.
@@YTWarrior100😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 you were very much the favorite, friend
Children are not extensions of parents. They are people. And parents have to let them make their own choices with all the benefits and drawbacks of it. That's the village traditions fatal flaw. It tries to keep children extensions of their parents until their parents die. It's a system built upon hierarchy and blood instead of trust and merit. And that's the ultimate Aesop of "Fiddler on the Room". Traditions can't last forever. And if they are allowed to linger past their lifespan, traditions will start doing more harm then good.
The villages traditions may have been beneficial in the past when society was different. But maybe in the end, wherever the villagers go, they'll find that their better off without those traditions.
2:12 my reactions that cocomelon is Coming To Max On November 14th 2024
Queer culture is bawling your fucking eyes out at this scene
What's more important Tevye? Your traditions and beliefs or your own family? I don't blame Chava at all for what she did. I admire what Tzeitel, Hodel, and Chava all did for their marriages. Rather then going by the traditions of marrying people they probably never even met before like what happened with Tevye and Golde, and what Tevye tried to do with Tzeitel marrying Lazar Wolf, their marriages actually came from their hearts and married who they loved. That's how it should always be, like it is now.
I think you missed the point. Tevye set aside tradition when allowing Tzeitel and Hodel to marry for love. His faith isn't a "tradition" that he can just set aside. It's an intrinsic part of who he is so he can't just say "oh well, that's fine". That was a line that he told her she couldn't cross and she chose to anyway. Him rejecting her wasn't vindictiveness - it was him valuing his faith over everything else. It was obviously a horrifying choice for him to make but losing his daughter would be like having his arm torn off. Compromising on his faith would be like having his heart ripped out. Both terrible and painful but only one raises to the level of death. I understand when people who don't have a religious faith (or a weak one) don't get this. By the current world's (secular humanist) standards, his decision is unacceptable.
Traditions and beliefs... the movie shows these are bound up with Tevye's whole way of life. His traditions shape his daily routines, his friends, his work, his family. They need to, because they're all he has--the Russians take everything else. Tevye's traditions are his solid rock, the one way he can make sense of a life where horsemen will charge through your daughter's wedding and destroy your homes.
And his daughter deserts all that. For love, yes, but she rejects her father, and sides (in his mind) with those who persecute him.
How do you give up your life, your friends, your very way of understanding the world?
You don't.
And don't kid yourself. Everyone has this limit, where even the bonds of family aren't enough.
I am playing Chava in a production soon and am still desperately trying to master this scene. Does anyone have any tips?
Don't know if you did your show already but feel like you were actually in that type of situation. What would you do if the family you know and love disowned you and could never see you again just because you married the person you love?
I have one week to learn how to act like her for a drama assignment. During all of Monday we have to go to school and act like our character, props and all. And answer questions like they would, and so on. I haven't ever even seen the musical.
This Scene is too much to bear if anyone has any kind love in heart at all. I'm from a Jewish Family Originally but we all do our own thing and while my Dad was never at all Religious my Mum came from a kind of Religious family but my Grandparents completely accepted her when she married Dad and these days we all do our own thing in my family even with one of my Sisters married to a man who's virtually a Rabbi and the other of them actually married out to a man with no Religion at all. In the Words of Theresa May who's one my 2 my all time Heroes this is why we should all remember that in England we should be best happy and feel free to practice our own Religion. I even have my own Religion that I made up for just me so her Words truly inspire me here. No matter what your parents think of you or anyone else NEVER feel bad about believing in your Faith. Well done Chava for believing in what you want to believe. If your Dad had really been a good man he'd have accepted you and your Husband and told those who were against his Religion where to get off so at the end of the day he's just as Prejudice as they are for you were the one trying to show there's absolutely NO place for Religious Prejudice in this World. If I were you I'd have walked out on him just like he walked out on you 1st and not only that but told him where to get off too. Follow your Dreams Chava and remember that no matter what in the words of the saying "Love will forever win over evil."
You sound very very young.
I completely understand Tevye in this scene. In order to be married in the Russian Orthodox Church, Chava would've had to have been baptized. She had turned her back on her people and mishpocha first. What else was Tevye to do?
The sad thing is nowadays, some people are disowning family because of FUCKING POLITICS!
I pray God that you are not among them - or that if you are, you reconcile. Political differences are not worth it.
The puppeteers are doing a good job on us, then sitting back laughing.
On the other hand. They said that was Maureen answer to ask her family back to buy realty together again
This wasn't Jew / non-Jew. This was his daughter marrying a Christian. His second daughter married an atheist Bolshevik and he eventually accepted that.
Perchik was Communist but he was still Jewish.
Well, in the end the two of them fled the country because “We cannot stay with people who can do such things to others!” I guess that could mean they left the Russian church!
Would Chava been better off if she had let Fyedka speak to her father about marrying her? Or would her father have been very cruel to Fyedka?
I don't think it would have made a difference - she's marrying outside the faith, and Tevye just couldn't accept that. He would likely have refused to even listen to Fyedka.
Why does he give me King Triton vibes...
I love this scene but it hurts. I think Tevye was losing too much too quickly.
Her children would still be Jewish ,the blood passes through the mother to the child, she was still Jewish.
That's not the point, his tradition tells him that those who marry outside of the faith are damned and are to be ostracized from the community. The whole thing with this show is the balance between tradition and social innovation. The fiddler is the tradition, the daughters' marriages are the innovations. You can most obviously see this in the Chava sequence, at the end, when she is reaching for Fyedka and for the fiddler but ultimately runs away from the traditions. It is too much for Tevye to handle to lose all of his traditions at once.
BrownRiceBunny1 she converted to Orthodox Christian in order to get married so she was no longer Jewish.
this scene breaks my heart. poor chava. i completely understand Tvye but is it worth disowning your own daughter?
No it's not. And the bastard knew it.
His religion was his whole life, Tevye couldn't imagine a life without it. So he had no choice.
It depends on how deep your religious conviction is. For me, having to disown my child would be like ripping my arm off. Turning my back on my faith would be like ripping my heart out. Both options are horrifying but only one would feel like death. Terrible decision to have to make.
Snowball effect. He has been losing part of his Jewish identity bit by bit. Until he can take no more
The daughter knew her father wouldn't accept this, so she went behind his back and did it in secret. Then, after all was said a d done and she got her way, she came back and put Reb in an impossible position.
She forced him to choose "your religion or your daughter. "
There are consequences to everything we do. But for some reason we feel that she is completely immune to these consequences. Why? Because she's his daughter, and fathers are supposed to back their daughters 100%, all the time, no matter what, end of discussion. Even if you have to give up everything you believe in, everything you hold dear, you back her up. If she goes behind your back and does something in secret, you change your world view and give her what she wants.
Sounds like me and my friend who is a Rabbi I am but a ghost to him. I am the ghost of Saul lol who is a Christian who had lots of Jewish friends wanting to study at the synagogue and Yeshiva. Best part of Tevye is his voice who sounds just like my friend who is a Rabbi. He still won’t sing for me if I were a rich man.
I love this scene.
As a religious man, there are some things you cannot, you will not allow.
I was so scared in this whole scene i swear
2:12 "NO, CHAVA!!!! NO!!!!!!"
Definitely a *cringe* moment for Chava 😬
on the other hand, what is a 'people' but the family you love,
+Jgaldragon The Jewish people.
I wonder if the other two daughters partners/husbands were Jewish that’s why he wouldn’t except Chava’s husband because he wasn’t?
2:06 When you have one hand :(
How could jolly old Tevye act very angry?
He's not jolly at all. Didn't you watch this movie?
Tradition is valuable but never more valuable than your family. That is illogical and goes against the very laws of nature.
I'm sorry but Chava deserved what she got. She completely disrespected Shem'tov'ye and flounced Moch-ta-*va* (Ba-shem-rah!) Tevye did what he had to in order to remain graceful and Ba-Ha-Sha-RemSha-Blahshablahbhalah. Any self-respectink father would do the same.
Chava pretty much *betrayed* the Jewish culture am I right?
Or also a thought for you. I'm dating and in a relationship with my boyfriend (Tim is his name btw) and he's a Christian public schooler whereas myself, I'm a homeschooler. I come from a Christian homeschool community and most all the homeschoolers I knew throughout my life are married and have families of their own. But with my relationship with a non-homeschooler, you agree that I'm just like being Chava in this scenario?
@@Elysia63 Chava had to deal with the consequences of her decision. I think you're just fine.
@@MelancoliaI OK. 😊👌
@@Elysia63 A subset that tries to control their children even after they grow up.
Your children should always come first. I don’t care what religion you believe in or not.
I understand that's what modern society says and I truly get it. But that would be acceptable primarily to those without a strong religious faith. Jesus said "“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." The point being that our faith in Christ needs to be prioritized over everything else. Tevye wasn't a Christian character but, even though he loved all his daughters dearly, his faith is clearly the most important thing to him. Again, I understand your sentiment and I'm sure lots of people would agree - it just doesn't (or shouldn't) resonate with people with deep religious conviction.
Then I'm glad I don't have a strong religious faith. If religion teaches anything, it should teach people to become better human beings, not worse ones. Having your own beliefs is one thing, but rejecting your own child, simply because her religious beliefs no longer line up with yours - that's wrong. That's cruel. And if you find yourself being cruel in the name of religion, then either you've misunderstood it, or it's a pretty bad religion.
Blood will always be thicker than water
@@hannahstahl1857 Easy to say for people who do not have strong beliefs.
@@Silver_Owl I like your comment. It makes me laugh at how angry people will be when they find out that you have the courage to say that somebody's religion is wrong.
Poignant. Especially right now
So Tevye is upset because Chava married a non-Jewish guy? It's pretty sad the way she was screaming and pleading with him to accept her relationship and he just turned his back on her.