The forgotten full size VW - 1968 Type 4 411L
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- čas přidán 30. 03. 2023
- Did you know Volkswagen tried making a bigger Beetle before the Golf/Passat arrived? The air-cooled family car swan song was this, the VW Type 4 or 411 was a full size car for dubbers with a family!
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Actually the Dasher was the US name for the early VW Passat. The Type 4 was sold as the 411 and 412 stateside and was a relatively late arrival (making its way to these shores for the 1971 model year) as the Type 3 (marketed here as the Fastback and Squareback) was still selling well.
Yes, that was also so for Canada. My dad had one. I remember the seats to be terribly hard. The ride was also firm. 411 and 412, was the difference the 412 was FI?
@@briandawkins984 412 was an updated model from the 411, different headlamps/ nose, side marker and rear lights moved up and got a bigger 1.8 L engine
Correct, the Mk1 and Mk2 Passat were sold as the Dasher and Quantum in North America, respectively. Beginning with the grilleless Mk3 model, we finally joined the rest of the world in calling it the Passat. The 411/412 didn't sell well here because it was slow, noisy, and not especially fuel-efficient compared to its competition, and adding an automatic transmission and air conditioning, as more and more American buyers wanted in car of its size, made it even slower.
@@vwestlife I always thought it was a little odd the 411/412 didn't sell super well here, despite the reasonable popularity of the type 3 and the insane popularity of the Beetle. I still see type 3 fastbacks and squarebacks come up for sale quite frequently, but almost NEVER see 411s/412s. Then again, with all the Japanese competition firmly established here by the late 60's, I guess the 411 wasn't exactly as compelling as something like, say a Toyota Corona, with nearly the same power output, but a conventional water-cooled inline 4 under the hood and a lower price.
the North American Spec Dasher = Passat = early square Rabbit but streched and an Audi type FWD drivetrain
I drove one around Gießen summer '89, including up to the Marburg University fencing club
I’m a child of the 60s and the 411 was quite a regular sight on the roads in the late 60s and 70s. Not seen one for decades though. Good to know at least this prime example has survived.
I also remember the model. They were regular sights in the end of the sixties
My Uncle had one, my father had a Type 3 Variant. They were not uncommon.
Quite a common sight at one time
Sadly they didn't survive due to poor bodywork and a tendency to rust badly.
I remember the 411 and its successor, the 412.
My brother had a 411 automatic, marketed as the easiest car to drive. On a road trip he let me drive it when I was maybe 15, and it really was easy. I've worked on a decent number of the type 4's and really liked them, they have a lot of room, and are pleasant to drive and very comfortable. Luckily the ones I worked on hadn't suffered all the horrible hacking so many beetles had been through.
Not so rare to see these in the UK in my childhood (born '63). In the late 80s, a guy I knew had a light metallic blue 411 Variant and I recall being quite impressed by it. Like a Beetle, but somehow more stately. Very like a Type 3. They even smelt like Type 3s. Spartan and sparse inside, but with a very solid, Teutonic impression of ascetic quality.
I really enjoyed this video. That's a very nice VW 411 Mark 1, and not one I'd known about. The Mark 1 (as it's called now, but Mark 1 and 2 were never official names) came in 2-door and 4-door forms, with the big oval headlights and a twin-carb engine. It was only made for the first year of production (1968-69).There was never a single-carb version. The Mark 2 got fuel injection, four headlights and revised badging at the front. The Variant (estate) was also introduced at that time.
Hi from Germany, I've been in a church choir as a 6 y/o, and the priest leading the choir drove us around during advent/christmas to have us sing. Since this had been at times when winter driving qualities where important, I remember it vividly. It's been a Volvo 93F-like experience! We were about 10 choir children in the back of that VW 411 ...
Used to see these as a teenager.
As a kid, my mom owned a used 71 Beetle, then stepped up to a used VW 412...It went through northern MN snow like a tank with that engine over the rear drive wheels...started in below zero (F) temps with air cooling...but had NO heat!!! A window scraper was needed for the INSIDE of windows!!! As I remember, there was green "Heat" button for the gas heater. The only thing the 'heater' did was fill the cab with gasoline fumes!!!! Ran like a top, though...
I had a '71 USA version. It was labeled 411. The USA version of the Dasher was/is a front engine water cooled car.
My 1971 USA 411 looked different than the video car here. The difference is at the front, the USA car has quad round glass headlamps, and I recall the VW symbol being in the vertical section of what would be the grill area of a front engine car. I bought mine used when it was ten years old. I didn't have much money, and hindsight proved that I overpaid for it. It did drive nicely; the ride and handling were reasonably good. I liked the timed gasoline furnace that mine had to preheat the cabin, until it blew-up and never worked again. I was young at the time, and I didn't have mechanical skills. My dad would work on it for me most of the time and he hated it. He thought it was a ridiculous car because there just wasn't much room around the engine and often it required a lift. Even when working on the top of the engine caused annoyance and back pain as it was quite a stretch reaching into the engine, and that big air inlet always hampered what one wanted to accomplish. It was one of those cars that always seemed to have something wrong with it, and it was rotted worse than I realized when I bought it. When I would take it to mechanic's they didn't really want to work on it, limiting what they were willing to do. And more than once mechanics had told me "Those cars are pricks!" That served to confirm that I made a bad decision in buying it. My 411 had the extra complexity of having an automatic transmission. Not the semi-automatic VW offered in that time period, but the fully automatic that they had developed. I thought I was buying a fancy Beetle but that couldn't have been further from the truth. The 411 is its own beast. So too is the later 412, that however being the handsome child. I'm sure that when these cars were new or much less used than mine was that they were probably decent cars. But it was the worst car for a broke young guy. When I think of Volkswagen's USA model line-up for 1971, any other VW be it a Type 1, 2, 3, or Type 181-"Thing" would have been better choices. While the Type 3 has a similarly challenging lay-out, greater accessibility makes those easier to work on. It didn't take me long to learn that the only acceptance I had for it was its forest green body paint and perfect white vinyl interior.
Wow, you really can see how much the owner cared for and loved this car. Such a great shape!
My 914 has this same engine. Some of the Type 4 sedans had full automatics-I’ve always wanted to drive one and hear an air-cooled engine roar through the gears by itself. The gasoline heaters were on a timer because they’d run the tank dry if you forgot to turn it off. I like these euro headlights-they look very modern. The quad sealed beam headlights we got in the USA made the car look like it was wearing goggles
Like a “Minions”, look, perchance?
They put the same (or at least very similar) Type 4 engine in the Bus, too.
@@leftbas65 A weird thing about the mid-engine 914 is the engine sits in the car backwards. Unlike the 411/2, Bus, and Porsche 912, the transmission is out back under the trunk. So to get the clutch to work, they added a pulley to the pedal cable to do a 180° U-turn so it would pull in the opposite direction. It’s one of the goofier moments in German engineering. Unfortunately the cable is prone to breaking because it flexes so much. In the original 914 brochures, it was indicated an automatic version would be available, but it never came to fruition. I guess the engineers didn’t figure out how to get the automatic transmission to go backwards. It’s a bummer, because an automatic 914 would’ve sold well
You may have stumbled onto something with the goggles comment. Perhaps this was the inspiration for Minions?
As I am sure many from America have mentioned, we got them as the 411and 412 with sedan and Variant models. Like all VW's of this era, they were shown to have exceptional durability. Rust was an issue anywhere outside the west and southwest portions of the US. I remember test driving one of these with my mother in 1972 when she needed a new car. The only thing that kept her from selecting a 411 Variant was the need for 4-doors with three growing boys. She ended up buying a Datsun 510 wagon and we drove that thing into the ground. It gave its all without so much as a whimper.
Actually, in the US this model was indeed sold as the 411; its successor was called the 412. The Dasher nameplate was only applied to the FWD car that was known around the world as the Passat. We caught up eventually.
A silver 1971 VW 411 was my 5th Volkswagen. In high school I had a 1965 red Beetle convertible, then a white 1967 Beetle, my first new car, a 1975 Ancona Blue Le Grande Bug Superbeetle, which I sold to travel, then after a couple of motor scooters, my wife was pregnant so I found a 1964 Beetle, which served for a year or so, rusting more magnificently with every trip, but in 1986 saw a 411 in the yard of the VW mechanic I used. Thought I had bought a limo! Smooth, very roomy and really got out of its own way. You had to drive them full out like a Beetle, it would cruise all day at 90 if you wanted, floated over bumps, and the trunk was big enough to drop a twin stroller in without collapsing it.
It remains one of my favourite cars of all time.
Hi I worked on them , the most common fault was the petrol heater always fails every September and the pump or plug wants renewing , also it use to blow holes in the petal heater pipe ! Great fun to drive with the 412 injection engined models.
My brother had a 1972 411 LE. Living out on the beaten track, this was probably the best car for the dirt roads we had. That and the Peugeot 404....
Thank you for this vid, brings back memories.
In the early 1970s, my father's family also started outgrowing his Beetle - but he'd never been enamored to VW, saw the T4 as a hopeless dead end of automotive engineering and bought a Renault 16 instead.
The T4's performance (both acceleration and top speed) was a joke for a 79 or 80 HP car, fuel economy was dismal and the petrol fed additional heater was not a luxury but a necessity because the standard heating just wasn't enough to get and keep the passenger compartment warm in winter.
The latter disadvantages were all inherited from the Beetle - but where Beetle drivers were told to get lost and rev the engine up or get a blanket to keep warm, the more affluent T4 driver was advised to throw money at the problem.
These cars may have been well screwed together for the time but they disappeared quickly after production ceased. I'm German but from around 1980, they were almost all gone.
I guess people just weren't ready to keep up cars that cost a lot to fuel and weren't that good in the first place.
Sounds a bit like me ..I went from a 69 Beetle to a Renault 16TS ..I'm sure there were many others who did the same.
Indeed. This car clearly borrowed the shape of the Renault 16 launched 3 years earlier, but didn't copy the modern front-wheel-drive layout with water cooled aluminum engine. The 16TS with 85HP also was quite a bit faster.
I was a kid and already a petrolhead in the 70's and these cars were not rarities, they sold really quite well. I didn't know however that Pininfarina had done the styling. That explains the car's good looks. A very popular colour was a light sky blue.
My dad had a car with vinyl seats. It was a Peugeot 404. It was a nightmare on a hot sunny day, if you were wearing shorts, as most young boys were in those days. Happy days. 😊
I owned a 411LE during the 70's and used it to tow my racing powerboat. Wonderful car! Put a Jag owner to shame when he could not get his large cabin cruiser up the slipway but the 411 pulled it out easily. I traded my 411 and the boat and trailer for my first BMW when I got out of racing.
My parents had the station wagon version that they bought new in 1972.
It was automatic with fuel injection and had a gas heater and dealer installed
A/C.
I remember that it cost more than a BMW 2002 that it shared the showroom with.
I also recall having to refill the spare tire all the time so it had enough pressure to power the windshield washers.
It was mechanically reliable and durable but rusted badly within five years and since it was a sales flop parts and service became hard to come by fairly quickly after they stopped being produced.
My parents replaced body panels as they rusted but if I recall correctly it was problems with the fuel injection system that finely consigned it to the scrap yard.
They were known in the United States as the 411 or in a slightly redesigned format as the 412.
It was never known as the Dasher.
The Dasher in the United States was front engined water cooled front wheel drive vehicle known elsewhere as the Passat.
The Dasher was the U.S. name for the Passat that came after this, these were called the 411 in the United States, but everybody referred to this model as the notchback… and the estate version was the squareback. My Mom’s friend had one of these in the seventies and we had a Dasher Diesel… this car was more roomy inside than the Dasher despite being a little smaller, I always loved these!
My brother had a fast back version in Sydney. Must have been in the mid 1970s I remember nearly spinning out on a wet city road one day and I am sure the pedals came up from the floor like the Beetle. Cheers from Downunder😊
There was never a single carburetor in the 411, always two Solex 34 PDSIT carburetors (411) or the Bosch fuel injection in the 411 LE. Power output was 68 BHP or 80 BHP. The bigger engined 412 had 75 BHP and the S version had 85 BHP both with two Solex 40 PDSIT carburetors.
In South Africa they were offered with carburettor badged simply as Variant and without the L or LE letters the Variant badge was larger.
I own a SA built 412 Variant base model. Minus wheel arch trim and side trim. 50 were built in SA 1973 still to verify. All body pressings are different to German built. Intresting the German the L Variant was still offered with Fuel injection but minus side and wheel arch trim.
As I am aware my 412 Base Variant is the only one in UK I did find two others in South Africa one needing restoration and another in brown. Mega rare when considering the body pressings differences. Heater channels are in two sections more straight and angular than the single rounded curved German heater channels. My car is solid going thru it I started to spot quirks.
Allot of SA market LEs are being imported I notice. I'm very proud of my base model Variant. Original paint seats and headlining. Plus fragmented South African History. I found my car randomly ouutside Edinburgh. I also bought a 411 two door plus a container of parts. A collector had bad health. I went to look and fell in love with the Variant. I sold the 411 and parts to help the owner out. Kept the 412 estate. I have a brand new steering box and a uncracked dash top x2 v hard to find. One will be going into my 412 dash top it's baked.
These were always known in the United States as the type 4, we had both the 411 and 412. The Dasher was the US market earliest offering of the Passat, it then became the quantum before they change the name to the universally accepted Passat
Chris Zbinden
He thinks the internet is UK only....Ads crap.
The US, the Brazilian models, they kept producing them, exporting them to the UK too.
VW SP is the best car the did, same VW engine as the beetle, and this car.
@@lucasRem-ku6eb I mean he IS based in the UK and a lot of his viewers are from there. And to his Credit he has tried out cars from other places, especially American cars, he's one of the only people from the UK that's ever talked positively about a Crown Vic.
@@Andyface79 I thought all his viewers reacted 412, i did drove it, lol. Many and many UK car lovers in the US too, more than in the UK i guess. They see them as fancy classics.
This version, headlights etc, UK only, was the Brazil model better, i only know i love the SP !
My first car, in 1981, was a 1969 VW 411 L Variant, the station wagon version of this. I regret selling it. It had 2 carburettors and easily made 95mph, sometimes just over 100. Acceleration was congemplative at best. They were popular here in 🇿🇦
My first car, in about 1982, was a 1969 Beetle. At the same time, our neighbour had a 1972 (?) Coupe, and a bloke down the road had one of these mean machines. Needless to say there was a friendly rivalry about who had the best car. Loved this, I could almost smell the interior lol.
This was an evolution of the Type 3 platform (ie. Squareback, Notchback, and Fastback). I've owned many different VW's over the years. I had a 67 Squareback. Loved it.
I love the Type 4 engine. I wish VW had engineered the Beetle with a T4. I've done several T4 into Beetle and Ghia conversions. It transforms the vehicle. Currently I have 71 Super with a turbocharged T4.
Thank you for a really nice video.
We had an aqua 1972 411 in the US with auto, air and quad round headlights. I was 5 years old and the space behind the rear seats was my "cubby-hole" where I slept on long trips. Mom had the car serviced at the VW dealership and the car completely burned up while she stopped at the store on the way home.
This was the first VW in a while with no vent windows; even GM and Ford didn't drop them until 1969 and 1970. I've read that the front window glass had a "smoker's notch" so that there would be a small opening to exhaust the smoke and possibly flick the ashes when the window was ajar, but I've never actually seen it in action.
Yes, they had that feature. The glass had a cut down section in the front upper glass and if you rolled the window partially down it would expose that section and the smoke got sucked out.
@@awegner6465 Interesting! It was common at the time, even in winter, to open a little the vent window to let cigarette smoke out, so this feature on the front window made perfect sense.
When I was a student in England in 1980 cars belonging to foreign students who had just graduated were parked up and the keys were put on the college noticeboard for other students to use. Even gratis nobody wanted these! Trendy models like a free Mini and Beetle were sought after.
I ran a type 4 for 3 months but the council towed it away and scrapped it because it had no road tax or MOT. Replaced with an Alfa Romeo Alfasud which was much more fun...
My uncle had one of these. It always had a big bag of sand in the front trunk, and when asked he said it helped with the steering. I was too young to understand how that would work, and I assumed he was just saying something to brush the annoying little nephew off.
Seeing this pristine one now, in the wet, it probably will feel a lot less skittish around corners with an extra 50 kilos over the front tires.
Problem with the VW411 was that they were rot boxes which is why they are so rare. In the late 60's and into the 80's VW cut corners and the Beetle also rotted.
I had a work colleague with a 1950's, small back window, beetle. The paint was like stove enamel and it was rot free.
I remember these cars. Here in Ireland the 2 door Type 4 Fastback and Saloon were far more popular, due to price. They were reliable but prone to rust. The 411/412 was only marginally cheaper than a Mercedes but unfortunately got a reputation for trouble and many were scrapped at a very young age. Happily however, some mechanics understood them well and kept them going. I know of one 4 door 411 which is being restored. This has an original Irish registration so is likely to have been assembled in Dublin as Irish assembled cars were then subject to much lower levels of purchase tax. There are a few of the ordinary Type 4s on the Irish vintage car circuit. The Type 4 was not the last air cooled VW car sold. The last Beetles were sold here in late 1977/early 1978. I have never driven a Type 4 but your video reminded me of the times I drove Beetles. Old VWs are truly classic.
I owned a 1971 VW here in Canada. It's model was VW 411, with autobox.I liked it, was a nice car.
It's major weakness was rust.
My father owned a VW Fastback which was launched just before the 411L and 411LE. I learnt to drive in the Fastback and found it so easy to drive. I loved the unique sound of their engines and it was so good to here it again in your video. By the way, they were quite common back in the 1960's. Thank you for sharing.
Slight correction, in the states this was known as the 411. The Dasher was the first "larger" FWD car. It was the predecessor to the Passat.
In the late 70's I bought a twin carburated 412, 2 door saloon. Ultra reliable and always a fun vehicle to drive. Later on, i bought a second type4, a 411 estate (variant) with fuel injection. I can still enjoy the sound of that type4 engine these days in my'73 Bay window bus.
The 2.0 ltr. versions of this engine can also be found in the last serie Porsche 912, and till 1982 in the 3rd generation VW transporter/vanagon.
VW never sold this model here in Brazil, but between 68 and 70 I lived in the UK as my father was working at the Brazilian embassy, and when we came back to Brazil he bought a VW 411 Variant in UK and shipped it to Brazil (or, perhaps it came from Germany as it was a left hand drive, don't remember). That light blue 411 Variant, with automatic gearbox, sun-roof and, although it was a 1970 model. my father was allowed to order it with twin carburetors as he knew that VW Brazil had no experience with electronic injection technology by then,
It was the first car I drove, and kissed my first "serious" girlfriend, I was 18 by then, oh, what memories! My father sold that car in 77, but even then people on the streets were still asking if that was a new VW Variant model that was coming to Brazil. People had never heard of the type 4 models.
What a great lunge back in time Matt. I've never been in a type 4 but my godfather had a type 3 back in the late 60's and 70's replacing his old Beetle. As kids we loved to travel in it as it was so different to my dads' old MKII Cortina. Although the type 4 changed quite a bit over the type 3 this brings back some fine early memories for me. Many thanks for sharing.
One of our neighbours had one in the late 60's as his kids (3) were getting a bit big for his previous Beetles. He gave me a model one, a Dinky or Corgi, wish I still had that mint and boxed as was a rare in the UK model even then (a made in France one I think, the box was in French). I was a bit old for model cars by then and passed it to a nephew. He was a VW fanatic and a German child survivor of the Concentration Camps (his parents not so lucky). His Father being a 'Peoples Car' owner before the war.
Great video Matt! I remember these as a kid of The 70s/80s as our teacher in primary school had one. I now live in Aachen in Germany and yes I’ve seen one of these quite recently. Normally owners garage these during the winter months and only tax and insure them during spring and summer. All historic cars here have the letter H as the symbol on their plates to indicate Historic. We also see the odd Trabant occasionally too. 🇩🇪
Seen them in the UK he meant, now you are in Aachen, but where you saw them ?
You still get Russian Gas and Oil ! You have to produce your own energy now !
I worked on quite a few of these in the US back in the 70s and early 80s..They were definitely a leap forward from the Types 1 and 3. All of the American models were fuel injected with Bosch D-Jetronic systems, a very reliable one. The US models also were equipped with three speed automatic transmissions; a good friend of mine had a Canadian import with a four speed manual instead of the automatic, it also had a Golde sunroof, a very nice car indeed. They also built a station wagon that was fairly popular here. When the host was describing the interior he failed to mention the front windows. These were the first VWs to dispense with "wing" windows. VW produced a window glass with a small cutout near the front that was used in lieu of them, and by rolling the window down until the gap was open it provided good ventilation for the front seat passengers without lowering the window more than a half inch. Why the Golf (Rabbit) didn't follow up on this was a mystery to me. I never saw a carbureted version, for by the time that they were imported fuel injection was the only way to meet US emission standards by the time it was introduced. The US Type 2 Transporters from 1972 until 1974 was equipped with carburetors, but were festooned with emissions equipment, but they used the same fuel injected engine (Bosch L-Jetronic) in the US until the 1982 Vanagon.
I always wondered why they didn't put a proper boot with outside access above the engine in the saloon. After all, VW did it with all versions of the Type 3 and for the Type 4 estate. Instead they went back to storage behind the back seat like in the Beetle. When I was a kid, there were quite a few Type 3s around and my uncle had a later (412, with the even longer front end) Type 4 estate in orange, and what fascinated me most about those cars back then were the two boots.
I've always asked that myself? The Type 4 estate had the completely flat "pancake" version of this engine with a totally flat load area. Why on earth didn't they do the same on the "saloon" version and give it a hatch on top of it? It is simply incomprehensible.
For that matter, why the wagon wasn't a 4 door since they already had the 2-door wagon customers covered with the Type 3.
I had a 1966 Type 3 Fastback. Once, the gas station attendant (remember those?) offered to check the oil. Okay, he went to the front, so I helped him to open the front. Nobody home. Ah, it's in the back. So we went around the back to see if we could find an engine. Nope, nobody home here either. At this point he was quite perplexed, which was amusing. Eventually I lifted the floor and showed him the *very* flat engine. --- You think that Beetles have a "flat" engine? You ain't seen nothing !! Type 3 engine was *VERY* flat.
My brother worked for the local vw dealer, I remember hearing of several 412's optional heater causing garage fires.
I spent some time in the late 1960s driving a red VW 411 Variant. It had a decent rear load area above the 1.7 engine and a huge front boot. I loved it. It had two doors and was a bit of a hangover from a previous age, a very old-fashioned concept, but was beautifully built. There was later a 412, an improved version. I thought the Type 4 was a replaced by the K70, not the Passat. This must a very rare right hand drive survivor.
I like it! "Light and airy" is definitely something that most modern cars seem to lack.
It's spacious and comfortable, too.
..the somewhat austerity of the early to mid Coldwar, ..airyness is important for all the pickled or boiled cabbage and baked beans farts families produced during a day trip from their picnics, in their cars.... ;¬) :¬P
Now with safety standards weighing down cars and thickening pillars, it's no wonder we have to have cameras and lane keep assist with warning lights in the side view mirrors. I miss the tactile joy of driving a real car. Everyone has engineered out the real pleasure of owning a car.
Not often I see a car from a major manufacturer that I didn't know existed.
I've been a mechanic since 1984, and I've never seen a Type 4 VW.
It actually looks like a reasonable thing 🙂👍
My youth was spent in a gold 411 estate, more specifically splayed out in the boot . I wish I had it now , so many great memories
A fun video that brings back memories for me. My uncle had a 411 with an automatic transmission. The transmission was very reluctant to shift down, a bad thing for an underpowered automobile. It was a gutless wonder when it came to acceleration with four or five family members squeezed inside! My uncle nevertheless got the car moving at tremendous speeds as he reversed the car down his long driveway to the street, with gravel flying all directions... a wild trip that could have been in an amusement park! Alas though I wanted a 411, all I ever had was a 1956 Beetle convertible that my dad bought in Germany. The front end was too light especially in a crosswind so to keep the car anchored, every winter storm season I placed a 150 pound rock in the front boot, or trunk as we call it in the USA.
My dad had one in the late 70's. (It was a fuel injected LE)Turned out it was two cars welded together so he had to let it go. But it was cool - preheater was so ahead of its time.The flatter engine worked especially well in estate form, allowing a flat load shelf.
I had a 411E Variant, similar colour to that one but I'm sure it had quad lights at the front. Comfortable and smooth but a blighter to start in cold weather. If it didn't start first time, you could forget it. I had to have several cwt of sand in the front boot when it snowed to prevent loss of grip. It rusted really badly at the front so went to the scrapper. It was my third VW but I never bought another after that.
I loved the design of the 412 LE ... And it was so much more useful than the 411 ... It was expensive here in Ireland so not a big number sold. I even have the Haynes manual for it despite never owning or driving one .. lovely to see this beauty 😊😊
Absolutely ADORE the 411, or the 412. They are so rare!
In Sydney in 1971 before I bought my first car, a school chum's parents loaned me their 'spare car' for an Easter get away to attend a Citroen CITIN gathering 395 kms south. It was the station wagon version of the VW Twin S with an automatic transmission. Our neighbour opposite had a VW Twin S sedan known as the Type 3 - a 3 door.
Very efficient use space with a large front trunk of your fastback plus a station wagon tail end with the motor beneath the deck. Slightly higher wagon floor than a normal wagon.
Quite good fun in the club motorkahana with light steering, tight turning circle and engine over the driving wheels with extra traction of the auto transmission.
When we got home his dad handed me the keys of HIS car.... a huge contrast.
A new Mercedes 300SEL 6.3 - the fastest sedan car in the world. I was an awe struck 17 year old.
He let me drive off with his son without him joining us... Megatrusting.
The following year I would attend in my first car - 1962 Aussie assembled Citroen ID19 - front wheel drive, very heavy steering at low speed, 123 inch wheelbase and floaty magic carpet gas / oil suspension. Fantastic high speed cruiser with amazing economy.
I worked for a VW dealer in the 1970s and we did have Type 4s with air-cooled engines; they were known as Type 411 and 412. We didn't sell many but the parts manager of the dealer I worked for had one. The Dasher was a name given to the water cooled car introduced for 1975 and was, I think, known as the Passat in Europe. Also making its debut in 1975 was the Rabbit (Golf in Europe) which put an end to the air cooled models in the USA except for the Beetle convertibles (Type 151).which lasted until the 1979 model year.
As a child of the early 60's lovely to see one of these again!
I have a friend of mine who still has his Father's VW411 here in Portugal.
It also has the 2 carburetors version.
He told me the engine is identical to the ones which equipped the Porsche 912.
Thank you for making this video. Cheers.
From the 912 Wiki:
The VW "Type 4" engine was originally made for the 1.7 liter VW 411/412. The 912E uses a Porsche-designed 2.0 liter revision of the engine with a longer 71mm stroke crankshaft, new rod bearings and new pistons to increase the cylinder bore to 94mm. Power output was 90 SAE horsepower. The 912E's Bosch L-Jetronic / Air Flow Controlled system was later adapted for the 911. The 912E has a 20+ gallon fuel tank, 30 mpg and 600-mile range.
I remember the type 4 when I was a child, though the type 3 was more common. such an explosion of design and engineering concepts from this era as manufacturers tried to find their way forward from conventional F-R and R-R layouts into the modern era.
yet regardless of all the those different manufacturers and designs, when the car wouldn't work, 90% of the time you could yet it going with a gallon of petrol and a good push down the road. those were the days...
These were amazing things - very light to drive - built like tanks - far better to drive than the competition! Pity it didn't catch on and were now stuck with front engine - front wheel drive!
I do remember them as a child , not seen one in 35 or 40 years ! I assumed they were extinct in this country. A big Volkswagen on sale at the same time was the NSU designed K70 , I used to see one around Chorley up to about 10 years ago .
This country? what did you meant, the UK, Chorley, Wrenbury Ward ??
The UK imported the German version, but nobody bought them in the UK.
People here remember other Cars, as the later Brazilian and US models, they were never sold in the UK.
My uncle had one of these and they were not rare ! - The 411LE had electronic ignition - very reliable !
I had a 411 estate with the 1700cc fuel injection engine in the 70s whilst serving in the army stationed in Dortmund Germany and it was the most practical car I've ever owned
practical, in which way?
My father had a type 412 , the updated model, a bright yellow variant ( estate) . It was fabulous and it took us all on many an adventure
I live in the USA and remember these. There were quite a few and some of the parents of my friends had them. They were not called Dasher's they were called Square Backs. Dashers replaced them later. Our family had many VW's including 4 Camper Bus's. We also had the 914 you mentioned. They rusted like crazy. I imagine in the UK it would have problems with that.
The Squareback was a type 3; its stable mate was the Fastback. The 411 was the 411 in America, and was succeeded by the restyled 412.
I've been loving this car since the early 70's
Actually, I can pretty much guarantee that I owned one in the late 70's, UK 'K' reg. Ok, mine was the estate version.
Great load-lugging car. Mine died from a combination of serious electrical glitches, heat-exchanger issues and RUST.
But, I loved it.Great to see a review.
These looked almost space age compared to the beetle when they appeared in the early 70s but never really sold in large numbers. US cars had quad round lamps since rectangular lamps were not legal back then. I haven’t seen one in decades. By the way, the Dasher was the replacement for this car in 1974, a year before the Golf.
I remember as a teen my father had the estate 411. My memory’s of it were a very big car plenty of space inside and the drive was super smooth. My dad used to tow an early Sprite Major caravan and it was a super towing vehicle. Two things that have stuck in my memory was that it went into the dealer to have a service and one of the rear spark plugs wouldn’t come out (they were very hard to get out without removing the engine. My dad said “ it still works leave it in” that plug went on till he sold the car at 180,000 miles. The second thing was he went on an invitational visit to the VW factory in Germany by that time there was the start of rusting around the headlights, this was a common trait with this model. At the start of the visit his car was whisked away for a full valet session but, unknown to him they replaces the front wings and headlights and a lot of the trim that was showing it’s age. To say he was chuffed was an understatement. I just wished that I had had a chance to drive it but dad always refused to give me the keys. Happy days.
@13:29 Actually in the US the Type 4 was sold as the 411 and 412. The Dasher looked like the bigger cousin to the VW Rabbit. Love your content, keep it up!!!
Spent a lot of my childhood in Zambia in the 70's where there were quite a few of theses about, especially the "Variant" model.(They were manufactured in South Africa.) VW Beetles, Mk 4's and Peugeot 404's (assembled in Kenya) were really popular due their ruggedness an reliability. They assembled Fiat 131 and 124 in Zambia, (CKD kits) but they didn't tend to last long.
I am fascinated by SA built type 4s especially the Base level Variants two others I know of and an owner who owned on in SA. There are more KDF wages than base Variants 😀 doesn't make them valuable but I like the unusual.
My father had a 411 wagon bought new in 1972 after outgrew our 68 Beetle. We had that 411 until 82 when he got a VW Caddy as you guys call it. In the US it was a Rabbit truck loosely name as I recall. The 411 was a great car and only remember it needing the fuel injectors replaced after 5-6 years. Still, I got to drive it as a teen and always enjoyed it.
Granddad drove the 2 of us from Toronto to Boston in his wagon model .. so cool .. in the 70s .. year before was in a beetle .. we really loaded up the back .
Nice video, I had a1974 type 4 (412) which was an automatic shifter and had fuel injection. It was a very capable vehicle and could run with a lot of cars once it got up to highway speeds. As someone stated earlier, the Dasher (Passat) was a different vehicle and was introduced as a liquid cooled car along with the Rabbit (Golf) and Scirocco, which I almost bought, in 1974. It was pretty pricey for a VW as you said as it was getting into the price range of a number of American cars at the time.
Nice road test of this classic! I recall seeing quite a few of these in the States (Seattle) in the '70s; I think most of ours were fuel-injected (K- or D-Jetronic?)...they seemed especially popular w/ University profs, along w/ the Type 2 and the Rabbit (Golf), prior to the high-popularity of the Japanese imports (Volvos were also esp. popular!) My Mom had one of these briefly when she did a post-doc in Philadelphia in 1978; it was not a happy experience for her. Though a low-mile 1974 412 model, she found it would vapor-lock at anything over 70 degrees F--wonder if that had to do (as on the Porsche 914s) w/ the fuel pump placement in the engine compartment? She traded it for a new Honda Civic 1200, which served us well for the next six years...Looks like you're well on your way to that magic 100K!
One of the many pattern failures of the VW air cooed motor was when run beyond the short oil change interval or overheated a piston would burn, crankcase pressure would skyrocket and remaining oil would blow out the crankcase vent. Soaking an already overheated engine bay would result in ignition which in the case of the type 3, transporter, or type 4 estate was only a light engine cover away from the passengers. A friend of mine started his college experience by loading everything he owned in a type 3 squareback to head for a midwestern university. Somewhere between Dog’s Neck, Utah and East Jesus, Nebraska the above happened and he stood beside the road watching his future burn, then the side windows melted and fell in so it looked like glaze on a doughnut. (I’m not a VW hater, just a child of the’60s). Perhaps this is why the 411/412 sedan didn’t have a rear trunk.
I owned one of these but the estate model. Gave me many years of trouble free driving. wish i had one today.
Your car in New Zealand 🇳🇿 was known as the Volkswagen Karmann, quite a large number of appointments in the dash for 68 to 74.
Pity about the lack of hatch, wondered whether it could have been adapted to 4WD those LHD wipers were the triangle 🔺️ of death, static belts were all common around 60's to early 70's, love ❤ your presentation 👍
My dad had one of these - a 411 fastback. Personally I really liked it, both the sound the air-cooled engine made and the overall feeling of quality of construction. Thanks for doing a review on a car of which I have fond memories.
My family bought a 1974 412 VW. Well, actually they bought a 1973 412 but that one fell off the lift when they were taking it off the ship, so they had to order a replacement which is how my family got the very last 412...which had a prototype Siracco 2.2lt engine. We didn't know that until about 200,000 miles into it and the transaxle and engine both gave up on one very long day. VW offered $2,000 for the engine and transmission to be returned, and refused to provide a rebuild kit for the spun bearings. The car ended up going to the dump. It was barely 6 years old, still in perfect condition, just needed an engine and transaxle.
I remember those cars around here in the 1970s don’t see them anymore. Still see the occasional square back but Beatles are very common.
In my country (Denmark) the 411 and 412 were also priced as "premium cars" - like Volvo 144, Rover 2200, top-model Opel Rekords and Ford Zephyr/Zodiac, so they never sold well here either.
A mate of mine had a 412LE than he got very cheaply in the late Seventies, because the oil crisis had highlighted the car's very heavy fuel consumption. It drove very nicely though
I studied in the USA 1973-74 and I'm pretty sure the VW Dasher was the first generation Passat (there was a lot of marketing on TV back then for the new model)
Dad was a mechanic at the VW dealer in the late 60 early 70s ....he hated these things with a passion. Bags of trouble
These cars were to have a liquid cooled engine originally , but due to budget constraints it got a 1.7 type 4 air cooled motor because the joint 914 project with Porsche it too got this motor , all 914s were setup to fit the 911 flat six motors.
So much for your guarantee, my neighbour had a dark green Type 4 3-door estate in the late seventies, so I saw one every day!
I believe that in Brazil the VW TL was based in the Type 3 and not T4, but it had very similar design. TL still have fastback, regular sedan and wagon (or state) designs.
It was powered initially by VW engine pancake design of 1500cc, but for most of production, it had 1600cc with max of 65 hp.
It didn’t have unibody construction. Instead, still have classic VW floor pan chassis and separated body. Therefore, it still have torsion bar front suspension and similar VW Bug back suspension.
The VW TL in sedan version nicknamed “Zé do Caixão” was only second to VW Beetle favorite model of cab drivers.
The was a second generation but in only in state model call “Variant”. Still have floor pan chassis/ separated body. It did have front McPherson suspension based from VW Passat and it received a increased 1700 engine with VW Passat.
With arrival of VW Passat first launched in Brazil before Europe, the other versions of TL didn’t have a second generation.
The Variant lasted until mid 80’s.
Overall, the TL was very popular initially, but with arrival of VW Passat, the TL market just vanished.
VW Brasil tested Passat wagons, but it looks that VW headquarters in Germany stop these plans for Brazil.
I was wondering that! That car is a different TL
my parents had one of these - this video brings back memories of my childhood
As with most European cars that we also got here in the US...this looks SO MUCH COOLER with the euro lights than it does with the quad sealed beams we got over here. Love that front end!
He thinks the internet is UK only, but you have seen Brazilian imports !
These EU lights are UK only ? Not the German lights !
They just never sold them in the UK, is that right ? Not sure if he understands anything......
I vivdly remember that a Type 4 featured in a guide to replacing bolt-on front wings in the late 1970s/early 1980s Marshall Cavendish partwork "On the Road". Said article also featured some epic fibreglass bodgery of the featured car's very rusty inner wings before the new outer wings were bolted on.
In the 70s family friends had one a red Variant as a child I thought it odd looking compared to our Mk1 Passat estate, I remember it was always hot in the back!
What a curiosity - the final development of the Beetle concept is really interesting, and I'd imagine it's extremely rare now. Those black perforated vinyl seats remind me so much of the ones in my Grandad's early '70s Beetle. Childhood memories!
I remember driving a friends car of this type. At slowing down speeds the non-servo disc brakes were terrible, requiring hard pedal pressure to come to a dead stop as if driving at much higher speeds. My drum braked Beetle had a self locking action with the two leading shoes arrangement and you could back off pedal pressure as you got down to parking speeds. This was a problem with early non servo assist disc brakes. Ok on a racing car where you needed to take speed off but never having to come to a dead stop meant you never had a problem.
Owned a '73 412 2-door in the late 70s. Fantastic car. Swapped it out for a Ghia convertible after a couple of years.
Should have kept both.
Matt,very interesting car,have only every seen one like this,it originally belonged to the Germany embassy, I was talking to a car dealer and mentioned I had never seen one like this,first I thought it was similar to VW 1600 variant? it was he said very rare and as you mentioned about the erbacher heater that it could be set and start without you being in car,keep up the the good work with these cars brings back memories regards👍🏴🇬🇧
My brother had a 412LE estate in the early 80s. I loved it. I remember going to a scrappy to get replacement doors which we got off a 411 estate. Would live to own one now. So cool!
Great video! So many memories come flooding back of my family taking overnight trips from Ohio into Ontario in our '72 orange Squareback. Loved that car!
I wanted a 412LE Variant back in the '90s. Very handsome looking cars.
considered getting a 412 "station wagon" = 'estate' = ,,Turnier" in the 1990s
but got an 1983 VW Rabbit Diesel pick up instead -- got wide Porsche rims out of a junkyard for the front,
and was checking junkyards for a turbo out of a Jetta,
when it got totalled by a Buick in a parking lot
( Sfter my 2nd grade in Ft. Leavenworth Kansas, my Dad got a Type III wagon
with after-market A/C (...Kansas)
and had it shipped on ahead to Fulda West Germany, where I went to 3rd grade.
It was replaced by a gleaming black M-B 280 SEL 3.5 V8.
But it did not come back to the U.S., even tho' he had inbound car shipping rights due to the outbound VW --
I am sure it had lots of hidden underside rust -- the way U.S. Army personnel got such cool cars in FRG was because they had failed TüV... .)
You’re forgetting that the 411 was only up to 1972 - after this you had the updated, mildly modified 412. Also came with a slightly larger engine 1.7 was upped to 1.8 L.
I had the NSU developed VW K70, which was VW’s first front engined, front wheel drive and water cooled.
Volkswagen bought NSU just prior to launch of the K70 model and just did a quick rebadging prior to launch. Sadly only to be produced for 4 years before being superseded by the Golf and Passat.
It had amazing handling with inboard front discs and an alloy engine of 1.6 L and 90 hp. Extremely roomy both interior and boot space.
The subsequent Audi 100 borrowed many of the K70’s design features.
The 411LS/S would have a more powerful engine, maybe slightly larger 1.8l engine. This would include a rev counter instead of the clock. The clock would be near the radio..A VW411E/LE came with a Bosch D-Jetronic fuel injection. Cool car and cool video. Thanks.