DT-Swiss EXP Issue 2021
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- DT Swiss messed up this time. The new EXP ratchet system is described by DT Swiss as having “superior reliability” by using “25 years of star ratchet technology to bring a product to the market that further evolves around the idea of reliability and engagement precision”
However, that’s not true. DT had an issue with the surface finish of some of these new EXP ratchet things which can cause the rear EXP hub to misbehave.
That’s not where DT Swiss stuffed up though. They stuffed up by trying to keep the whole thing quiet.
We still love DT Swiss but we really wish they’d come to us first once they knew they had a problem so we could have been proactive with our customers.
This DT Swiss problem can effect all 240 EXP and 180 EXP hubs. It doesn’t effect the 350 or 370 hubs, or older non-EXP hubs.
This video explains all the problems and solutions to get your EXP hub back to 100% performance.
DT Swiss official bulletin:
www.dtswiss.com/en/ratchet-ex...
One of the most helpful, Cleary explained mechanical videos I have ever seen. Excellent work lads. Thank you
Our pleasure!
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheelssince this video is 2 years old can i expect that when i order a new wheelset this prolmes are fixed?
Thanks so much guys. I've been riding my MTB with these hubs and have been having this issue every ride. But intermittently. Finally today I went to my local bike shop who knew all about the issue. So that's been months of getting frustrated and all because DT Swiss refused to admit that on this occasion they were below the Swiss Standard of Excellence we are used to. Shame on them.
Urg - not a good situation :-( -Tristan
Thank you some much for that video, because I have been dealing with my hubs for 4 months now. Thanks again.
No problem Adolf. I assume you didn't buy the wheel from us as we reached out to all our potentially affected customers right away when we found out about the issue. -Tristan
Got my wheels in and this is a huge help
I bought a set of wheels recently with generic ratchet hubs and they work great. I upgraded the 36t to 60t and use two Springs although you can use just the one. Very loud but engaged so fast
Experienced occassional chain drops and disengagement of the hub. Happened to me during a long ride so i had to take a taxi to go home.
I brought it to an authorized dealer here in the Philippines and they cleaned the hub and it is working again.
Upon seeing this video i sent an email to dtswiss and they asked me to bring this back to the dealer so they can check…
Looks like some dealers still dont know about this issue. It wouldve save some time if they know that there is a service bulletin and possible replcement of parts.
Thanks for this video. Great help!
What's the batch code?
Does the official dealer (UNISON) knows about already? Thanks
unfortunately, they are not aware of the issue. They told me that probably there is too much excess factory grease which caused the dis engagement. After i sent an email to unison, dtswiss routed me again to them and they asked me to bring back the wheelset
Batch code is same as in the video. I just got the replacement part today and have it installed. Hopefully no more issues:)
My hub had done this 4 times over 6 rides after 5 months of trouble free cycling. For warranty they just sent me a new floating start ratchet, 3 months later I haven't had any further issues
Great info. I realized my 240 Exp hub has a '308' number in the middle.
Glad it helped
I rode a 240 on my mtb for years without issue. This new exp system is disappointing and super dumb. The fact that they tried to keep it quiet when it failed makes me want to look at other hubs for my next build - unless they go back to dual springs...
Nice video! I was probably “patient 0” as I was the first one to post the problem in the mtb forum and also contacting DtSwiss about it. You are right, they took too long to acknowledge the problem and even then not making a total recall. By the way you are incorrect: the batch number with problems has a “0”. If you have any other number - it can be a 1 or any other digit - then you are safe.
Hi Ben. May I ask how you know which batch numbers are bad? Did DT Swiss provide that info? I "almost" bought a wheelset with 180 hubs yesterday but decided to wait til I completely understood which batches are bad. Shit, I just read that since the wheelset I'm seeking is Roval, the hub body will not have a batch number printed on it:(. I'd rather be safe than sorry and simply replace the floating star ratchet either way... HOWEVER, how do we as consumers know if the replacement floating star ratchet DT sends us is from the "bad batch"?
@@brandonornelas4204
Hubs (wheels as well as components) which have a “1” in the middle of the production code (e.g.: P2079940 318 DTP N 10027719) already have internals with an increased surface quality. Hubs with a different number in the middle of the production code, e.g. a “0” (e.g.: P2079940 308 DTP N 10027719), have internals with standard surface requirements and could therefore potentially be affected by earlier wear and tear.
@@brandonornelas4204 if the middle digit is a 0 or a 9 the hub could be affected, at least that's what's stated in the dt swiss maintenance notice (linked below the video)
wow thanks so much, I currently have two wheelsets that I built up with DT 240 EXP hubs. I will check immediately and I'm sorry to say I won't buy DT Swiss anything for a long time, I don't care how good they are, I have lost all respect for and trust in this company. What an idiotic behavior! So sad. You on the other hand have definitely earned a "subscribe" from me.
Edit, on the MTB I did have some minor issues and maybe on the road bike too, wonder if this could be the problem.
Great video thank you
I experian some problem with my new roval rapide clx wheels i have lost on cracking noise when pedaling i send the wheels back to dt swiss and the replace all the internal parts for me i just waiting for the wheel come back . Thanks for a video 👍 great job guys .
Hey Vlad - A creaking or cracking noise is unlikely to be the EXP system and more likely to be the spokes or build-quality issue. Hopefully Roval get it sorted for you -Tristan
great clear video thanks so much. My wife has been riding a EXP rear MTB hub P ..... 401 DTP F ... so middle digit is a zero which means it might be affected. She has not experienced problems, your recommendation is to change the whole freehub assembly if the wheels been ridden - can I ask why? (is it because the notches in the aluminium fhb might have been damaged?) cheers, Pat. (France)
DT Swiss aren't clear, but it appears the slightly rougher ratchet rings make small groves into the freehub body. -Tristan
I have roval wheels on my SL7. They have ratchet exp in the free hub. This happened to me yesterday going up a hill.
Peddling but no power going to the wheel. Like the chain had come off.
I removed the ratchet exp this morning. It was clogged full of this silver grease that was stopping the spring from coming back out.
Little bit of cleaning and it worked again.
any problems since?
@@alen-commentnazi8774 no and I also got the bike serviced. I don't know if they replaced it
That’s grease shouldn’t be silver, that means aluminium has been shaving off the hub body!
Also SL7? Boy are you unlucky for re-calls!
Canyon neuron still has problem with Horst link for many years. They only sent new bolt if you complain
When DT purchased Hügi, the initial hub design had one spring and a fixed ratchet. They acknowledged that having two springs would ensure that both ratchets would engage regardless of axial load.
Not sure why they returned to the single spring setup.
I'm kicking myself for selling the Hugi hub that I had...it would be great to pull it apart and look at the differences between that 25 year old hub and the new EXP system! -Tristan
Cause their license expired. Stick to star ratchet hubs, EXPs are shite and obnoxiously loud.
Brilliant, thank you
I got mail on 6.05 from the store from I bought my 180 hub, notifying about the issue and also inclyding the original statement from dt Swiss.
Mine issue was actually the cranks not engaging, it spins both ways. I had to get a whole new 360.
I have the Roval C38 wheelset, can I swap out the the stock ratchet for the 54 ratchet?
Heared about this issue, hadnt had myself any problem. Just wrote to DT Who send me a new body new ratchet new springs and special grease the following day...
Thanks for this info. What bearings does the DT 240 EXP Hubs use? Thanks.
This video here will answer all your questions :-) -Tristan czcams.com/video/_solStr8PnU/video.html&lc=UgySquHknJclxS9Kloh4AaABAg
I don’t really know to much about wheels, but I’m currently running the C38’s can I upgrade my ratchet to the 54 tooth
thanks for sharing. do you know if this issue is solved for the models 2023 and 2024?
Happened to me going up a climb on my Roval Alpinists after about 1000km of hard riding. I wonder if pro riders have had any issues ? I haven't seen in a race this happening, would be super embarrassing, maybe DT told their teams ?
I'd imagine pro teams communicate closely with them and have access to revisions first. It was likely a testing/research/supply issue. Hear about issue, run internal testing, find cause, revise design or process, start production, test new parts, etc etc. Meanwhile riders have issues and DT doesn't have a clear time-line so doesn't want to spill the beans and deal with endless emails and phone calls with no solution to offer. It would've been a lot better to at least acknowledge the reports instead of covering their ears.
Interesting. My buddy was riding his 1 year old mountain tandem with DT Swiss 350 hybrid rear hub and had engagement issues in the granny gear going up a steep pitch over the weekend. He talked with a mechanic today who suggested tightening the axle down some more, which (apparently) has solved the problem. I can't figure out how that could be an issue, so was googling and came upon your video. Looks like it doesn't apply to the 350 hub, but do you have any insight into this? Thanks!
Hi Joel. Unless the axle was completely loose I can't see how that would solve the issue. It sounds like the hub might need a full service -Tristan
if you ride it and it has no issues, why replace the freehub and ratchet?
Had this issue after only 12km on a bike bought new in May 2023, so there are obviously still affected hubs appearing on new build bikes.
That's sad to hear. We replaced all of the ratchet rings in hubs we had in stock at the time but maybe that didn't happen with where you bought the bike?
Thanks for the video. Just learned about this problem by chance yesterday and I am worried about my Roval Alpinist now. Did not really get where the batch number can be seen. Can I find it if I remove the cassette ?
I'm not sure with the Roval wheels sorry Bruno. Often companies like Specialized use DT internals but have the hub shells made by a different company so it's possible they don't have a DT batch number because they're not a DT product. -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Ok, thanks for the answer, that’s why I don’t see any number. I didn’t even know it was DT Swiss tech before reading comments from affected customers on FB with Alpinist CLX. I have contacted my Specialized retailer to check what I should do.
So if I have an issue with a DTSwiss EXP hub in the future (not this particular one), are they going to give me a hard time, denying the issue exists, and will fix it only after many other riders and many dealers have a similar issue and complain and write & make videos about it? Disclaimer, I ride onyx hubs, but am considering DT for a weightweenie build…but maybe not anymore.
no, if you contact them with this issue they will immediately fix it for you.
Is it safe to say the 350 hub is not affected by this issue? I just ordered a wheel with 350 with 54T upgrade. I thought DT is a trusted brand with reliability? I'm second guessing myself if I should have chosen it
I am going to say i am very disappointed in DT swiss hubs lately. I bought a set of 180's for my gravel / cx race bike - and front hub bearings were rough from the box - bearings were clearly pressed in way to hard. I replaced, all smooth. This has then been the case for set of 180's for xc race bike wheel build and same for a third set for xc marathon bike build. The bearings in rear hub as well as front hub were rough for the xc race bike. Considering they cost circa 1500 aud for a set of front and rear hubs, having rough bearings out of the box for over half of them is really poor. This may be limited to the 180's - not sure - but very, very disappointing. As was the need to buy yet another tool to replace rear bearings in the exp rear hub. As was the fact that when i have written to DT re rough bearings issue - they have not replied. Obviously couldnt give an F.
These will be my last ever DT hub purchases. It saddens me when companies go from being great, to the culture they now have. This will not be good for their future.
Probably they went woke lol. I steer away from these companies.
@@johnlesoudeur3653 LOL! i dont think that was it, or they would have done something like put in there some pawls that identify as a star ratchet hahahahahahahaha.
Just a) really disappointing level of tolerance quality for what is a VERY expensive hub - $600 for a front hub is up there, and all up i have had 3 sets with bearings that are rough as out of the box. then b) when i contact DT re this - get nil, nix, nada in reply. I cannot abide F$ck you level of customer service or care. If they are too big to give a shit about their customers now, then fine - there a plenty of other hubs out there, and I hold grudges on this sort of shit, i will NEVER, EVER, EVER buy another DT hub in my life, and will not recommend others support either until i see they have changed. Product issues - all brands have them. Not giving a flying F about you customers - who - may i remind them, are actually people - with feelings, who work hard to earn the $$ they spent on your products - which is what keeps your company alive. it is companies that dont care about the people they depend on that drives me nuts and is for me unforgiveable. Next build i am going to try a set of tactix hubs, now they look amazing.
Just to let folks know that the problem lives on. My lbs sent my almost new and expensive(!) Roval Terra wheelset back to Roval after the hub freewheeled about a month ago. Lo and behold after the “repair” it happened again, for short periods, about ten times on a 35 mile ride! Almost fell on a climb… Plus got noisier as the ride went on. Unconscionable in my opinion that Roval, now owned by Specialized, is still selling wheels with this hub.
Urg - sorry to hear that mate. Next time buy Wheelworks ;-) -Tristan
thats why Hope is the way to go
I have DT180EXP hub, yeah..I think I had some weird problem with my rear wheel, but it doesn't bother me, so i didn't pay too much attention.
Then I upgrade my default 36T ratchet to 54T, and no problem ever since.
And I sold my used 36T ratchet....I don't know it was flawed, I feel guilty now
Why is a 54 ratchet better ?
@@1spiders1 If you're asking why it seemed to solve the issue, the manufacturing defect on the rachet rings (edge chamfering, I believe) was probably already fixed in the replacement and not enough damage was done to the freehub by that time to warrant replacement.
If you're asking in general what is better about a 54-tooth ratchet, it's quicker engagement.
A friend and I both bought the same bike, YT Jeffsy. While on the trail his rear hub would not engage just like the video notes. This was the third ride on new bike. I check my three digit number and there is a 1 in the middle. My question is this. Should I call DT Swiss for repairs? Will they only address if hubs fails first? Don’t want to wait too long and then it’s out of warranty. Thanks for the video!!!
You should get in touch with your local DT Swiss service center and have those parts replaced -Trsitan
So I have in my possession two carbon wheelsets, one with 240exp and 350 version and on a spin test the 350 spins forever and 240 stops after 30sec-1m. Does it need a run in period or other issue? Bike store says potentially too much grease from factory in bearings and needs a few rides. Front wheels were spun? Backs similar performance. Help?
Some of the DT Swiss front hubs (there are a few different versions) use a mechanical seal which will cause some extra drag, especially when the hub is new. -Tristan
How do you know if you have this problem? Well .... I lost the drive today during the race and had to walk 4km to the start. After dissembling the hub I noticed that the ratchet was stuck in the freehub. Thank you - now I know what to do.
:-(
Has this problem been solved by the 2023 production year ? Also, this has not been happening with the 54T kit, right?
Hey! I have a 240s hub and the digits are 084. I think is not EXP. How can i be sure without getting it apart? Thanks a lot for this video!!
084 would indicate a pre-EXP hub. The isn't a great visual 'tell' so it would be best to pull apart and verify. -TT
Hi, I have ordered a custom build XM 481 wheel set that comes with XP240 hubs. The set has not yet been delivered. I ordered also the 54t upgrade kit. Is the EXP Upgrade kit also affected towhen it comes to disengagement problems?
We've had no indication from DT Swiss or our customers that the 54t kits are affected by this issue -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Hi, thanks a lot for answering my question. I did ask Dt-Swiss-Germany and got the response that the 54T Kits were affected, too. Since end of April the ''improved'' version of the kit is available only. So my wheel set should be good.
We've known this issue since day zero. Talked to DT execs - zero response. Customer reports on website - zero. The single ratchet 'fix' is not a fix. The first time the ratchet strips it damages the non-floating ratchet. Unfortunately it means that dealers and wheelbuilders now need to take responsibility for poorly crafted hubs without any support from the actual MFG. In going forward - it's still roulette whether you will end up with mis-engaging hub or not.
Thanks for that - i called the Australian distributer and they were not transparent at all, were 'not allowed to tell me the fix'.
I contacted Dt swiss via their website on 7/10/2021 and so far they have not responded.
Oh bugger :-( Hopefully they get it sorted for you
Did you hear back about this at all peter? Im in aus and having same problems with the hub
If I am in "case 1" (brand new wheel) how can I be sure that the spare ratchet I will buy it's with the new surface finish? So not affected as the original in the hub? All spares around are fixed ones? Thanks in advance..
You'd need to check that with the company you buy from. All of our replacement parts are of the revised models. -Tristan
I am looking on my DT Swiss rear hub and can’t find that batch number. It’s a oil slick edition and a six bolt as opposed to center lock rotor. Didn’t get it from you guys but would love help if possible I have yet to build the wheels and don’t want to remove the inner spline to make the potential repair easier if necessary.
We didn't get any of the oil-slick hubs (long story) but they should have a batch number on them. Some of the 6-bolt hubs have this written on the driveside flange so you might need to remove the cassette or freehub body -Tristan
Thank you! I’ll take a look there. I will also possibly with my retailer.
Good video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Hey so I just have been trying to figure out why my new bike with the DT Swiss hub with XRD was skipping every revolution, this video finally laid it out because I cleaned both ratchet abs still had the problem
so do I contact DT Swiss directly or what do I do ?
Glad we could help! If you're in NZ we can help you, otherwise get in touch with your local bikeshop or DT Swiss service center and hopefully they can get you sorted. -TT
Love my farsports 😎
I got the replacement kit, including the freehub. I can't see any visible difference in the freehub, is there really any point in throwing out a slightly used freehub?
Yes there is. The damage can be impossible to see with the naked eye and re-using the old freehub body will likely make your issues continue. -Tristan
Have you had any wheels, whether new, ridden without problem, or ridden with problem that have been warranty repaired/upgraded and then come back for the same issue, or does this upgrade fix the problem for good, at least in your experience?
I had a good skype with DT Swiss the other night about this issue. It seems that if your wheel is not affected yet then it's very unlikely that it will develop the problem - the issue seems to come up quite early in the hub's life if it's going to be a problem. Once the freehub body and floating ratchet are replaced it seems there is nearly zero chance of the issue popping up. -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels thank you! I will be receiving my new wheels this week and they only replaced the the floating ratchet because they’ve never been ridden and are brand new. Fingers crossed I’m good. Much appreciated!
@@paulgrossodesign that's all you need with an unridden wheel 👌
Hi Tristan, I just got new wheelset with dt240 exp hub.... And got '370' code in the middle...
How do I know whether this hub has issues or not before I replace the spare parts as you mentioned in your videos?
I don't think that batch code is correct Michael - you might be looking at the wrong part of the code. In the video description is a link to the DT Swiss tech article showing the code -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels the code is in the rear hub right... Hmm that's weird thkugh
@@mikesalim That code sounds like it's from a previous non-EXP 240 hub. Are you sure your hub is an EXP?
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels the body hub shows ratchet exp though
Can you please tell me your opinion on dt 350 hub for a rider that has way to much torque for nearly all hubs on the market thats me. I have stripped the drive ring threads on 3 hope pro 4 hubs in the last 2 years i do ride alot and ride super steep tech climbs i am a little dubious about the strength of the 54 poe star ratchet on dt your honest opinion would be great thanks .
Stripped drive rings isn't something we seen on Hope hubs, so if you're that hard on them I'm really not sure. You could take a look at the OS version of the 240 and 350 which both have oversized threaded rings - we have a deepdive on the 240 version on our channel
So what was it about the floating star ratchet that was causing this issue? Poor / rough finish, incorrect tooth, wrong materials size etc etc?
DT Swiss say it's a "surface finish" issue - although that term could cover a multitude of sins. Basically the floating ratchet sometimes gets stuck in the freehub body and the spring doesn't have enough force to move it. To the naked eye the replacement parts appear identical and interestingly they've been issued the same part number (no iteration) so it's impossible to tell if the one you're holding is the bad one or good one. -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Relying on surface finish for ratchet engagement is soooo dumb. A spring behind each ratchet means they engage even if one gets stuck. A former DT Swiss engineer once posted online (post has been removed) that it is silly to "fuse" one ratchet to the inside of the shell - precisely because it is expected that the ratchets will move slightly around an axle that bends and twists.
If I get the 54 upgrade will that resolve this issue?
I have the 180 exp made in 2019 (2’9’3) 9 is the number in the middle
Yep! But if you've ridden the wheels you'll need a new freehub body as well. -Tristan
Hi guys, I have the XMC 1200 and i have exactly this issue. free hub is rotating in both directions. Number of the rear hub is P2098592 306 DTP N 10024181. Thank you for very help full video.
Glad it helped Martin. You should be able to reach out to your local DT Swiss service center for replacement parts -Trisatn
Hi. I had my exp freehub changed however recently. When I'm freewheeling the hub initially makes the normal ticking noise and then it goes almost silent. I have no drive issues though. Can you advise re this please
That's a strange one - the noise should stay constant. I'd suggest you have someone with DT Swiss experience take a look - if you're in NZ we can certainly help and you can book a repair via our website. -Tristan
io sarei nel secondo caso, per sostituire il freewheel body dovrò smontare la cassetta pignoni? occorrerà quindi la chiave a frusta?
sì, dovrai rimuovere la chiave a frusta per rimuovere la scatola del pignone -Tristan
I bought a 2022 Specialized Epic Evo Expert - comes standard with Roval Control SL wheels with DT Swiss EXP ratchet 350hub. It has the 2 spring / 2 floating star ratchet design which is supposedly better and more reliable then the new 1 spring / 1 floating / 1 fixed ratchet design. Yet I experienced the same issue on a 16km ride in July 2023. Free hub would let go intermittently and I thought the chain was skipping on the cassette. But I had a new cassette, new chain and chain ring. Max 300kms. Hot melt waxed chain from new so no wear. Then as I stood on the pedal to start from stop it let go completely causing pedal to go straight to bottom of stroke and I fell off! 0km per hour crash but I thought my chain had broke. 2 mates were behind or beside me and witnessed it. One said he could see cassette spin but wheel didnt move. Was able to ride last 3 kms but had to stay in light gears as too much power caused free hub to intermittently slip again.
Bike is now with Specialized dealer awaiting response from DT Swiss.....Dealer was unable to replicate fault (of course!). My impression was they were a little skeptical it had happened with the 350hub. I think I'll pay them a visit and show them all these videos and comments!
If you have TWO floating ratchet rings and TWO springs then it's not an EXP hub. The 350 is the "Ratchet" system, not EXP, so it sounds like you've got a different problem going on, not this one. Best of luck getting it sorted out! -TT
Hello there! I got this disengagement problem.. I have a dt 240 EXP hub almost 2months and i experienced disengagement problem when i pedal. My mechanic said that the spring couldnt push the rachet easily. So i decided to take off some grease and replaced it with oil.. However, the problem still goes on..
Question : I pre ordered the 54t star rachet for EXP, so if i replace the stock (36t) rachet, it will solve my problem or not?
I only pre order 54t rachet without a special tool. It is possible to attach them without the tool?
Sorry for my grammar, im from Philippines and I think dt swiss cant send me some spare parts.. Pls do help me Sir Tristan im far from US.. I thought dt 240exp is so reliable.. Now its giving me hard time and nearly cause me crash..
Im glad ive found this video and it really helped me a lot tho.. But still, my problem with 240 disengagement still cannot be solve :(
I hope dt swiss could send me the spare parts, but im from Philippines and i got no idea how to contact them.. :(
Sad times...
Sorry to hear you're having a problem. You'll need to replace the floating AND fixed ratchet ring, freehub body, and springs. You'll need the special DT Swiss tool HXTXXX00N8387S to do this job. I'd suggest getting in contact with whomever you purchased the hub / wheel from. -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels oh i see.. Its ok if i replace only the rachet with 54t? And it is ok to put oil instead of grease? If theres a grease, its still not pushing my rachet back and im having problem pedaling it. I think its ok to put oil bcos theres no sticky thing on it. 240s giving me so much problem :(
@@k.walvarado2156 I'd stick with the "DT Swiss Special Grease" (code HXTXXX00NSG20S) as DT call this a 'high pressure' grease which is designed to withstand the ratchet system's loads. What's causing your binding is most likely a damaged freehub body - you need to get all of the parts replaced like I outline in the video. Talk with your local bikeshop or DT Swiss service center in the Philippines -TT
Did you ever had issues with the bearings of the 240 exp's main body? The bearings are getting harder to turn after around 150 kilometers. I replaced them 3 times on a dt swiss dealership and the happened again and again. (the freehub works perfectly)
All of the new EXP hubs are very particular about the thru-axle torque and you'll get massive bearing drag and worn-out bearings if the torque is too high. 10Nm is max :-) -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels So this too will not impact the 350 hubs at all? TIA
@@Guanche_MTB correct - the 350 uses the classic star-ratchet system and NOT the newer EXP system -Tristan
Does it apply only to exp hub verions ? I just bought DT swiss 370 Ratchet LN hub, do i need to check it also for number 1 ? I do not think that 370 hubs exist in exp versions
This issue is EXP only - so only the 240 EXP and 180 EXP -TT
How can we be sure a brand new replacement floating star ratchet did not come from the bad batch?
Some (but not all) of the 'good' ones have an "e" on them, however in our experience this is pretty rare. Basically there is no way to tell other than asking the retailer who sold them to you. In our case we replaced all the hubs we had in stock and used a high-tech solution of putting a post-it note in the box with the date we replaced the ratchet ring :-D -Tristan
where can i buy replacement parts in EU if i have 3rd scenario? thanks!
You can contact DT Swiss through their website 👌 www.dtswiss.com/en/support/service-center
I have one question.
When the hub disengage,it does it usually for one teeth or it does disengage all together?
The DT Swiss ratchet rings are lots of little ramps...when the hub is freewheeling the two ratchet rings are running up and down these ramps constantly. -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels yes i know that.
I mean,when the rachet start to fail,it start skip tooth by tooth or it skipping too many teeths at once?
I habe some skip in my old style dt 240s but i am not sure if it is the small 11t sprocket or it's the rachet.the skip happens only in that gear and when i push too much.
@@Gregory_P. The problem is that the floating ratchet gets stuck in the freehub body. Generally speaking this causes the hub to freewheel in both directions with no drive at all, rather than skip. -Tristan
I have bought a pair of used roval alpinist wheels, the digit in the middle of the batch code is 0, what should I do? Who is responsible for managing the problem in my case in your opinion: specialized, dt swisse, who sold me the wheels?
You don't say what country you're in but I'd call DT Swiss first
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Italy … I wrote to dt swiss, anyway in 4000 km I didn’t have any problem
Update: DT Swiss asked me additional information (serial number, address, etc...) and they will send me a kit for the substitution of the defective parts
Can we conclude this as known issue for 36T, either for 240 exp or 180? And can be solved by upgrading to 54T?
That's correct - only the 18t ratchets which were brand-new in the hubs were an issue -Tristan
36teeth is also an issue. I have an 240 exp 36t. (307 code) Disengaging started last weekend. Was standin on the pedals when i lost all engagement. Hit the stem with my leg, nearly crashed. Immagine that happenin when hotlappin a though climb or crossin an intersection, ugh :(
have they since fixed this issue? new bikes and wheels bought in 2022 and 2023 should be ok?
We've checked every hub we've sold and we've fixed it. I can't speak for other retailers though -tT
I’m a small dealer and they didn’t even tell me? I only just found out about this???
Yeah we only learned when a customer asked "are my DT 240 hubs effected by this problem?" DT Swiss could have been a lot more proactive to give us professionals the tools and knowledge we need to support their hubs and brand. Thankfully once the replacement parts are installed the EXP system appears to be problem-free. -Tristan
So, what was the actual issue? Were the teeth of the ratchet breaking off? Was the spring too weak? Was the teeth of the ratchet not designed properly?
The ratchets were slightly too rough and causing wear on the freehub body. The (soft) aluminium freehub body then wouldn't allow the ratchet to slide and thus would cause the hub to either not engage or not disengage -Tristan
'wasn't made properly' - it would be good to know a bit more on this. Sounds like a surface treatment issue.
Yes, it was a surface finish issue. Needless to say DT Swiss have kept the details close to their chest so unfortunately we'll likely never know more than that -Tristan
Is this issue still out there if im planning to buy a new 240 now?
If you're buying from us then definitely not! We've corrected all our hubs and everything we're selling now is fixed -Tristan
I've got 405 on my hub. Wheels are 50km old. First ride I noticed if i stopt pedaling the sound of the free hub was almost gone (quiet) sometimes normal so i think i have the issue to.
Planning a 54t rachet upgrade. Have the upgrade kits not have this problem?
Thanks
The silent freehub body is probably just the new, fresh grease in the freehub body and won't indicate an issue. Your hub's batch number IS from the affected model range though so worth talking to your local DT Swiss service center to get it sorted -Tristan
I have these issue. Dt Swiss does not help me. The service point says the shipping is too expensive. Don’t know what to do. Already 5 weeks without my wheel. Awful experience!
Sorry to hear that Michael. What country are you in? -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Currently on Gran Canaria until April. Already bought a new wheel set yesterday. Ridiculous when you buy a bike for 12000,- Euro and can’t ride it for the first 3 month and then have to buy a new wheel set because the service point from dtswiss does not want to ship it. Yesterday the dt Swiss service point told me then that they would order the parts here so that they do not have to send the wheel to France. But the tool they need to change the part inside the wheel is sold out. Can’t tell you how frustrated I was to hear that. However, dt Swiss is a big company and I am just one small costumer.
why u need to replace the whole freehub body if there are no problems??
The hard steel ratchet rings wear our the soft aluminium freehub body causing issues. Check out this note from DT Swiss about the issue: www.dtswiss.com/en/ratchet-exp-maintenance-notice
-Tristan
Glad my is 350's
Trust is a major item for a company to lose.
Yep and very expensive to buy back! -TT
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels evil company
My hub this problem it not engaging
I open it and check everything looks fine
Now it gone stationery
My guess is that you've forgotten to put the spacer back in. On EXP hubs it's red anodised, on non-EXP hubs it's black. I made a picture for you: www.wheelworks.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/for-Linford.jpg
Mine is case no.2, DT sends me the parts and i change it myself.
I just check mine (240EXP), middle number is 439. How about this?
That doesn't sound correct for an EXP hub but if you're sure then it's not affected: "Hubs (wheels as well as components) which have a “1” in the middle of the production code (e.g.: P2079940 318 DTP N 10027719) already have internals with an increased surface quality. Hubs with a different number in the middle of the production code, e.g. a “0” (e.g.: P2079940 308 DTP N 10027719), have internals with standard surface requirements and could therefore potentially be affected by earlier wear and tear." from www.dtswiss.com/en/ratchet-exp-maintenance-notice -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels Hmmm... Full code is : "P2112992 439 10025085". A bit different.
Actually the problems are solver ?
I'm having freewheeling both directions on my 5 month old Santa Cruz Megatower with DT Swiss 370 hubs - Very frustrating 1. DT Swiss producing poor quality and 2. Santa Cruz for using cheap parts on high end bikes.
Why would I need a new freehub body?
The out-of-spec ratchet rings can damage the freehub body so that even new ratchet rings will fail to correctly engage / disengage. -Tristan
Really disappointing. I just wrote to DT Swiss about the issue because I am looking at building new wheels with their EXP hubs. Their reply was that “This issue is now solved on new production.” Not another word. Customer care is definitely not their forte, and their communication skills are very poor, too. Luckily, they do make nice hubs …
Hopefully they're just away on Christmas holiday and will get back to you :-(
Does this affect 60T ratchets? Just ordered 60T ratchets to replace the malfunctioning 54T ratchets.
DT don't make a 60t ratchet. The hubs come with 36t and you can upgrade to 54t - those are not affected.
I have a pair of Roval Control SL wheels which are 2 months old, my product code has a "1" as the middle digit so should not be effected!
Earlier this week whilst out on an mtb ride the freehub disengaged and I could not get any drive, I have stripped cleaned and rebuilt the freehub and it seems to be ok again, however, it would appear that the problem with the freehub has not been fixed by upgraded parts!!
That's not good! Did you use the DT Swiss "special grease" that they supply? -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheelsI didn't have any of the DT Swiss grease, I have used some Park Tools grease for the time being. Should I get some of the DT Swiss grease? Thanks
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels The grease that was in the freehub at the time was whatever was in it from the factory! I've read that there have been issues caused by too much grease being used during assembly at the factory!
This is exactly my case… I have the 180 and it’s happening the 3rd scenario… I just contacted DT Swiss.. let’s see what they say… my hub has 4 months
Thank you for this amazing video!!!!
And what said DT swiss ? Did they repair your hub ? Did you spend your money to send the wheel or did they pay for that ?
Mine disengaged and caused chain jump at 1400 watts, 37mph which created broken collarbone, broken hip and lots of road rash. How many more catastrophic crashes will happen before better warning go out on these??? I believe many more stories like mine will surface.
Yikes! That sucks Jason. I noticed Cav's dropped chain using the Roval wheels with the EXP system as well...I think you might be correct about more issues coming to light as time goes on. -TT
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels thanks for posting this video and bringing more awareness to the issue! It literally took us two weeks to go over my bike and rule out various possibilities for the crash. But after ruling out basically everything else, and the fact the drivetrain showed no visible damages we started looking into the hubs and found all this information. I find it interesting that in a recent article in bicycling weekly that highlighted Cav's chain issues, the supposed "expert/engineer" never once mentioned the recall on these hubs. Indeed Can runs the same wheels (Rapide) and hubs (DT Swiss) set up that I had. I immediately went back to Chris King hubs. I realize companies make mistakes and no one is perfect but I no longer have confidence sprinting with DT hubs. Thanks again for the work you're doing, you got a new sub! JW
Same crash here. 900w broken collarbone, permanent damage and rib and back issues now. Really terrible by DT Swiss.
Video only has audio on the left
I can't replicate this - it seems to have audio in both channels no mater what device I play it on. Anyone else having audio issues? -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels I'm using headphones if that helps
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels seems like a balance problem, left is like 85% sound, right 15%. Recored on mono maybe?
@@vincentmarkus6300 That's weird...thanks for brining it up. We'll make sure we sort this for future videos thanks
My 240 hub has 308, UK service centrer Madison is very slow to react and reply to emails regarding this issue, apparently 6 weeks plus wait for stock, they really don't give a f**k 🤷🏻♂️
Sorry to hear that Richard :-( I know DT Swiss are struggling for replacement parts for this issue
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels update, UK DT importer emailed today saying they will send me the parts required, hopefully that’s floating and fixed star ratchets and xd drive frh 👍🏻
That's absolutely disgusting from DT swiss, , just ignoring you when there's a problem
yeah it was extremely frustrating to try and diagnose these hub issues while they kept the problems hidden from us. Hopefully that won't happen again! -Tristan
This video is funny
Getting that star ratchet out of the hub body is freaking impossible.
Yeah it's a major flaw with DT Swiss hubs that no one seems to want to talk about! The EXP system is especially problematic as the tool engagement is only a couple of mm and I fear that we'll see this break leading to hubs which cannot have their bearings replaced. We built a small helper to firmly bolt the removal tool in place when removing the EXP ratchet ring to prevent this -Tristan
@@WheelworksHandcraftedWheels In the end to get it out, soaked it in penetrating oil for 2 days, and heated it up with a torch. Then it popped right out.
@@bubbastard boiling the kettle is a safer option - that way you know the water is only 100 degrees and you're not going to damage anything. Generally slowly pouring a kettle full of boiling water over the hub is enough to help loosen the ratchet -Tristan
Since it is being made in taiwan it is simply a Chinese thing let it be until they cant hide it any more and thats really a shame they are really destroying the brand and really thanks for sharing nice and clear explanations
Honestly - the PRODUCTION QUALITY of the hubs still seems to be fantastic. Their recent mis steps all seem to be based around design and direction, not actual machining quality. Most of the Taiwanese produced products we see (from every brand) are the best produced items in the world - they clearly have a deep level of production knowledge and quality control in Taiwan -Tristan
the old 240's are bomber. these new 240 EXP's are lemons.
I'm in category 3... extremely annoying
the dual spring design was perfect in my eyes. No need to innovate.
You must be blind to the fact that canyon didn’t come out publicly until it was MVP’s bars that broke on national television so I would say they were forced to be forward and honest and if you think any different youre a fool as how many bars broke before that and there was one broken before that!!!!
Portuguese subtitles please
Sorry mate! I think youtube has the ability to do some subtitles but no one here speaks Portuguese to check them -Tristan
I would like to buy a carbon wheelset from you however, your prices are out of the roof! I see brands like farsports and icam building quality carbon wheel for a fraction of your prices. Do you still have business? And if so, for how long?????
We're celebrating our 15th year in business so I think we're doing something right ;-) We build custom wheels to a very high quality level and personalise them to an individual rider, and back all of our carbon wheels with a lifetime warranty and a lifetime guarantee against broken spokes. We sell great quality wheels and try to back them up with great quality service and knowledge however that does comes with a cost. -Tristan
Ever tried swapping the bearings on the rear hub drive side ???
I will never buy this sh….. again
It's certainly the downside of this hub design ~Tristan