STUDIO GRADE Doctron & Stimming Instant Mastering Chain // Dawless Mastering Chain part #1
Vložit
- čas přidán 2. 08. 2022
- Get in depth production courses here: davemech.live/shop
part 1: • STUDIO GRADE Doctron &...
part 2: • FLEXIBLE Elektron Anal...
Part 3: • INCREDIBLE OTO Boum - ...
This mastering chain in a box stirred some discussion online when Stimming first spoke about this on his CZcams channel. It's a high-end device for a high-end price and because of its size one might wonder why. In this video I'm going to walk you through the sound of this device and how it can really help a live performance setup to gain more loudness and a glued mix. There's a lot of A/Bing to really show you what it does. I also use metering in LUFS to show the effect of pushing this thing.
It contains a compressor, EQ, and drive circuit.
Enjoy the video and don't forget to subscribe for more :)
Part #2 in this series is here: • FLEXIBLE Elektron Anal...
__________________________________
Samples, Presets, Courses
davemech.live/shop
Coaching & Lessons
davemech.live/coaching-lessons
Mailing list:
eepurl.com/gvA-Wr
Affiliate links:
Perfect Circuit: bit.ly/3TAKQQL
Thomann: www.thomann.de/intl/index.htm...
Other social media:
Instagram: / davemechlive
Bandcamp: davemech.bandcamp.com/
Soundcloud: / davemech
Facebook: / davemechlive
Gear I use: (affiliate link)
www.thomann.de/intl/index.htm...
Visit my website for information about coaching sessions, and my artist page:
davemech.live - Hudba
Nice review. It’s a great piece of kit. Unfortunately, not attainable for many due to the price but obviously it’s a boutique item. In my opinion, the device that is on par with the IMC is the OTO Machines Boum. It’s got a vast range of compression, warming & distortion. It sounds really good and is also definitely a more affordable alternative. Cheers to Martin for coming up with this device, awesome work.
Yeah Baum seems very nice as well. Hope to test it out some day. Thanks for watching and your thoughts :)
I'm getting on well with Boum - the only thing this has that I wish Boum had was a basic 2 band EQ - but that is being greedy.
I heard the compression is hard to apply in a subtle way, that it smashes it without a middle ground. I’d never apply more than a 2:1 ratio while mastering so I’d find that less useful if it’s true.
this was a masterclass in how to review a piece of audio gear. thanks dave, wonderful demo!
Thank you Andrew! If you have thoughts on how to improve this a bit further, would love to hear it :). It was fun to create so I might do more of these in the future
Agreed !
Great Sounding box and great review.
Thanks!
Great review! Thanks, Dave
Thanks! Glad you like it. Was a fun one to create
Thanx for this test Dave. I believe a comparison test is due with same range channel strips, like the API Channel Strip, maybe a Neve, SSL Fusion, drawmer 1978... Stuffs like that that are same price range or above, and also the Heat. That would be a lot of work for you but really cool.
Yeah I agree. Unfortunately I don't have access to those type of high end gear. A heat comparison will happen though :). Maybe Baum someday as well if I can get my hands on one.
@@Davemech AH's hard to compare as although they both have drive circuits they have quite different roles IMO. Boum is at its heart a compressor, like the IMC - whereas I see Heat more as a sculpting tool - with the multimode filter and EQ. You can use the envelope follower to create sidechain-like effects but it's not really the same thing. The saturation on Heat is better, IMO.
Annoyingly I'm finding that I want to use both 😅
@@NateHorn with the right settings on heat you can come really close to proper compression actually. Did a lot of A/B comparisons with my bus compressor and IMC. It's also what I use it for in live situations and in the studio :). Envelope follower, attack and realease, depth etc. Just a matter of finding the right settings. For my live set i use Drive as a destination which has a different effect obviously. But set it to preset volume and you can get proper compression really. It's definitely not the same, not as transparant or good sounding as IMC but you can definitely get a similar effect. Heat is more or less a swiss army knife, IMC a precision tool :)
interesting device! great demonstration too, even on laptop speakers you can get a sense of this machine's capabilities
Thanks! Yeah it really does as advertised. Great sound.
Sounds good. It's comparable to small 500 series rack with SSL bus compress and some EQ of the same grade which will be about the same price.
Pros of 500 rack: potentially one more EQ bad with controllable frequencies and VU meter for the compressor. Cons: it will be 3-4 times bigger and heavier.
Hey Dave, If I wanted to recreate this effect with ableton acting as the limiter/compressor, what plugins would you use?
A nice compressor and then soundtoys decapitator
Hey Dave, dank voor de toffe review! Ik had een kleine vraag; zelf heb ik een redelijk kleine setup (een eurorack case, digitakt, tone, wat losse synths en een Mackie Pro FX als mixer) en ben op zoek naar een mastering box voor een live-setup. Natuurlijk ben ik geneigd voor een HEAT te gaan, maar wellicht heb jij voor hetzelfde budget een betere optie? Dank alvast!
Dank voor het kijken!
Ik heb toevallig gisteren een zelfde soort video over de heat online gezet. Denk voor dat geld redelijk onverslaanbaar. Maar kijk ook even naar de OTO Baum
Personally i got the TC electronic Platform to pump up the Octatrack, very versatile unit, you can use it for more subtle limiting or very very dirty with the drive options.
Interesting. Will have a look at it. 👍
Can't find a pedal called platform. Which one do you mean?
Electro Harmonix make it - AudioPilz uses it on most of his jams. It’s a digital circuit.
Great video. And nice tech. Though difficult to acquire) Im new to performing with gear live, do you have any suggestions to make a live set sound more competitive to mastered tracks of a dj?) I bought FMR RNC, thinking that it should do the trick, at least partially ) but still can't wrap my hand around how to set it up properly.
Thanks for watching the vid :) . Analog heat is an option. I'd suggest. Though it has a learning curve to understand how to get a similar effect. A few years ago I bought an RNC for this purpose. It's indeed nice as the name suggest but imho a bit too nice. It's very transparent but it simply will not catch the peaks of a signal like the IMC does. The key is the drive circuit here.
Check out the OTO Boum.
@@tchu0001 yeah OTO stuff is great. Maybe I get a chance to lend one in the future for a test
thank you so much for doing this in-depth review of this unit . The best one I've heard out there on the IM .
Make me wish I had A spare 3 Grand . Unfortunately most people don't have 6 booking a year at Tresor Berlin .
Though I wonder how much S500 module you could get for that price or comparing it with an other compressor in the Similar price point .
GREAT GREAT VIDEO keep 'em coming ...
Thank you :)
There’s already a part 2 where I go in depth on the analog heat. Next up is OTO boum :). Might also have a look at 500 modules in the future
I got a question regarding the compressor:
I thought for compression on the master it is adviced to have quite high attack times (between 20 to 30 ms) so your dynamics (e.g. the transient of the kick) can still come trough and it "glues" the mix. Why do you set the attack as low as .1 or .3? Is the compressor in this case acting more like a limiter so you can drive the signal more? And isn't it taking away the dynamics this way?
That is indeed what I usually and up with on most compressors but as you say it’s an “advice”. There really are no rules. With the IMC I found settings of .1 and .3 to give me the most musical / best results. In the end it is about listening and using the settings that sound the most pleasing. Currently I use the OTO Boum and there I sometimes also end up using 1 millisecond rather than 10 or 30 for the same use case. It depends a bit on the track I’m using it on.
To have a compressor act as a limiter one would need to use much higher ratios of more than 6:1 depending on the input signal strength of course (any ratio that compresses everything above the threshold to 1b above the threshold is basically limiting.
So yeah in this case the goal is to glue the mix nicely but most of all to get the overall loudness up while keeping the signal sounding pleasing. So higher attacks will result in the transistor drive section to clip faster and thus less loudness. The drive section in this case acts as the limiter. As you push the signal through the drive it will clip and the peaks will get “chopped off” but in a very musical way.
As with mastering in the studio you indeed lower the dynamic range to make the signal louder overal. So in a way this compressor and drive combination act as a glue compressor and limiter in one.
Hope this helps understanding my decision for the settings. As always audio there are best practices but there are no rules. The end result is the most important.
Cheers !
Wow thank you very much for the very detailed explanation!! ❤ It definitely helps a lot.
Maybe another question regarding the IMC, Analog Heat and BOUM, if you have the time:
As I understood from your video about the AH, the biggest downside is it's missing compressor before the drive circuit.
Would you say that adding that compressor would put it more close to the IMC regarding its capabilities of sculpting the master bus than the BOUM could do it? Or is the BOUM just superior to the AH no matter what?^^
Great Demo Dave , thanks... the track you're using sound lovely & fits with my groove, what is it called? Is it out?
Thanks Jesse! The track you can get on my Bandcamp page. There’s a video where I show how I recorded the Windorgan sounds and you can see me record the track live. The video is called ‘Sample & Jam windorgan’. In the description of the video you can find the link to the track :). Cheers
@Davemech I managed to find you on bandcamp last night. I had a flick through your music , You have some great tunes 😉 thanks I will get back on there & find it.
I watched Stimmings Demo and was like: No way I'm spending any money on that piece of s?"*. After watching your demo I now really want this! : )
However i'm still a bit on the fence: I could just put together my own mastering chain in a 500 format, but that will add up to about the same price and will be less compact. Anyway, great demo...
Thanks!
I think it depends if you plan on using such a thing live. For live performances I’d go for this and enjoy the extra benefit of it working well in the studio. For pure studio use I’d put together a 500 lunchbox. More control :)
The idea itself is really great! I'm searching for a similar tool! But irs really to expensive in my opinion!
cool!
I'd be curious to hear how this stakes up against similar devices in the market, analog heat comes to mind, plus there's plenty of much cheaper compressor boxes out there too, would be curious to know if there's a difference worth the extra 2500 quid.
Ha I see you already did that, never mind ;-)
Part 3 later this year :). OTO Boum. If it’s worth it is up to the interested party. Hard to measure. IMC does something unique in a very very small footprint.
I came here after watching the Heat video. I know it's not fully fair to compare the two but was hoping you could say something about the pros and cons? To my ears the Heat sounds equally competent as this box, especially considering the price difference.
The IMC has much better peak control and stays a lot cleaner when pushing it. To get close to the same result you'll get saturation with heat. So the IMC is much more transparent in how it controls peaks and compresses. The compression itself is also a lot nicer in my opinion. The heat lacks the real control of a compressor really. Of course you gain loads of sound design options and creative options. It's a great effect. IMC is more focussed towards one goal and it does it really well.
Hope this helps :)
@@Davemech It helps a lot, thanks for the input!
I thought you were a no compression purist, nice that you picked up on this review request. Super interesting piece of gear too but the price is pretty off-putting. Wonder how it compares to the competition
Haha no idea where you got that. I love compression :) . It's what I use heat for (although that's not true compression).
The competition is pretty much as expensive but not as small. There are of course cheaper options but this thing really is a no compromise, hand built effect.
@@Davemech neither do I 🤷♂️ but one mystery cleared up
Sure it’s pricey but it’s up there with much more space consuming rack gear that you can’t really bring to a club setup.
Personally I’d try plugging it into the master insert of an xone 96 mixer, it would probably be a good final touch for a synth based setup.
Exactly. Agreed on both points. Best to compare it with that type of gear :)
loving the functionality of this little device! that price tag tho :( .... i run my modular through my digitakt. the new firmware is pretty rad with the internal mixer but i could never get it to a satisfactory loudness like what this device might be able to solve for me, unless if im doing something wrong ahah
You could try to use the digitakt's compressor in a similar way. Won't give you the same results but it can definitely help glue things together.
@@Davemech figured as much... Hoping you find some other gems like this for this series! Dawless mastering hardware seems to be an underserved market
@@n.eminus9536 yeah there's a few options and I'll keep digging. Part 2 is already on my channel and it shows how to use the analog heat for this.
By chance is that a Microcosm just behind the IMC here?
Yeap it is :) (though I’ve sold it since then)
Wonder how this would compare to an Overstayer Modular Channel [which obviously isn't 'portable', but same price] 🤔
Yeah that's the kind of gear one should compare this to. Wish I could afford doing comparisons like that haha
Not only gain staging is important, my experience is that different songs with different characters the same setting doesn't work! But If someone puts this processor to the project from the beginning to check it I'm shure it works!
It depends a bit on how different your material is. In general live sets have a certain sound and most of the time even a specific genre. In that case you can use one setting and it will be fine. It's what it's made for. The important thing is gain staging all your work before performing and setting up the IMC based on the most dynamic track you'll play.
I was all for it until you punched me in the face with the pricetag 🤣
Instead I will go somewhat Penelope Cruz in Vanilla Sky:
I'll buy it in the next life, when we are both cats
I was thinking about buying Elektron Heat after watching Cenk workflow, but instead, i find iConnect audio interface for $300. and now i run my OT thru iOS on my iPhone and compression/EQ saturation, without a "computer"
Great budget solution 👍🙂
What about delay?
If it sounds good, why not!?
What compression/EQ saturation do you use on your iPad/iphone?
Curious about that iOS workflow
I'm sure it's worth the money but my body can't afford me selling one of kidneys
seems like a nice device - but def. not my price range
The lack of an apostrophe in "Stimming's' annoys me at the price. :D
I like top notch gear but putting Carbon fiber on a pimped up RNC made a Baby With AH Elektron is pushing my understanding. A Playdifferently model one i do understand.
Hehe yeah understandable. RNC is digital though so doesn’t really compare to this in any way. Heat doesn’t have a true compressor and so on. You definitely pay for the fact that it’s a very boutique product with not many made and also that it’s created and built by just two people.
Model 1 is awesome yeah :)
Anything that has "instant mastering chain" written on it, should be below £300
It's a bit tongue in cheek, sure. I'd challenge you to create this below 300gbp ;)
@@Davemech I am sure that Behringer will pull that off just for 139€.
@@Bork_In_Volcanic possibly. Don't think they will though. Too niche.
@@Davemech they already cloning 170€ eurorack modules into 100€ ones, not talking about borrowed 303 designs (Devilfish was also a boutique, before B*ringer made a TD-3-MO) or recent DFAM.
"Instant Mastering Box" could be a top earner for B, even because of the box name, with all that Behringer audience. Especially given that IMC is a fully analog (Behringer still lacks on software side), means easy to clone.
@@Bork_In_Volcanic you have it all figured out. Contact Behringer and share the idea ;)
If making your Elektron boxes sound "mastered" costs 3000, then i would rather that the Elektron boxes just sound "mixed". This is just so far outside of the range of literally about everyone who plays with Elektron boxes. I mean, we already sell our souls to afford and justify the Elektron equipment, hahaha. I would rather have a budget version with cheaper components for one tenth the price.
Why not both? This was build to be a no-compromise device. Certainly not for everyone, and there are already alternatives that are cheaper. Like heat. Not exactly the same though but it can come close.
As with everything it's okay that it exists. Not everything is build for a broad audience.:)
Not sure why so much hate in the comments. It is what it is, and costs what it costs.
Yeah this happens all the time with high end stuff. People somehow get offended by asking price. Not sure why. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy this :)
@@Davemech Precisely! I should have rephrased, though. ‘Not sure’ was more of a figure of speech, but…I will keep my pesky suspicions to myself. 😆
Because people do pay hard earned money in the end!
@@Bork_In_Volcanic only if they choose to do so.
This is a very professional piece of gear. I don't play music professionally or live. But I spend that kind of money for gear in my actual profession. It's as simple as that.
2.799,00?????? I've payed less for my 808 at the time. This is ludicrous. Maybe I need new glasses??
Hey man, ben een grote liefhebber van jouw muziek :)
Yeah het is veel geld. Denk dat je het het t beste kunt vergelijken met high end rack gear in dezelfde prijsklasse. Het is alleen erg compact. Een 808 nu kopen though... Ouchy.
As a eurorack modular musician with 9000€ portable rig and a pair of MK2 Elektrons I do say: this box is overpriced!
Heat/Boum are more reasonable in price/ratio. Looking forward to your video on Heat.
I could see much more market for IMC if it was in 1000-1500€ range, similar to modern Teenage Engineering niche. Economics of scale do matter.
Thanks. But it doesn't work like that in the real world. They can't make this for 1000-1500 otherwise they certainly would have. It's basically a 1-man operation, hand build from the ground up. No PCB construction in China etc. They could do that and make it cheaper, but they don't want to. So it is what it is :) . Overpriced imho means something different.
@@Davemech I'd disagree. Not where components are sourced matters but the building & quality control.
Elektrons are built in Sweden (just checked one of mine), EU Soma is from Poland (owned Pulsar-23), Xaoc (one of big players in eurorack market nowadays) is from Poland.
While Doctron is based in most expensive region of EU aka Bavaria and it is one man business. How that gonna work in a long term? What about support if that box does breaks? They didn't updated a manual in a year. In Eurorack world we already have examples of Cwejman (Wowa has died) & Mutable. Imagine the same for 3000€ device.
@@Bork_In_Volcanic not entirely correct. Most companies might do assembly in their own country but PCB production is most often outsourced. It's a combination of things here: high end components, hand build on demand, niche market. Also you have to compare this to high end rack mount gear if you are going to compare prices with anything.
3000 €!
Yeah this is definitely a high end solution and not for the wallet with a faint of hart. I’ll be doing an Analog Heat video in the near future as well showing a similar workflow. There are even cheaper solutions then Heat. But in this case you pay for a high-end solution which is hand build by a single person on demand. And it's tiny and light.
@@Davemech Would love to see this as a heat owner using it as the final link in the chain!
@@gartersnake1919 I would love to see a manor heated by these devices
@@Davemech Any idea when the Heat vid is coming man? waiting eagerly!
@@gartersnake1919 not entirely sure but might be next week :)
This is ridiculously overpriced. No thanks.
Not really. That’s the price they’ve decided is worth their time to make on demand. They know most people won’t want it at that price, but this doesn’t make it overpriced.
Please watch the video. In the first 2 minutes I touch upon this very subject and why I think it's not overpriced. Expensive? Yes. Overpriced? No. Ridiculously overpriced? Hell no. The amount of knowledge, research, trial and error, testing etc. That goes into this, singlehandedly, is pretty insane.
Totally overpriced. Not a single original design, everything has been taken from other previous designs and put together inside a box. The only thing it brings to the table is its reduced size and an invisible membership for the clown's fanboy club. Hipster overpriced gear.
$$$$$$ OOOUCH. dEF NOT FOR EVERYBODY